Jeremy Bamber Forum
OFF TOPIC => Israel/Palestine => Topic started by: David1819 on April 13, 2024, 11:15:PM
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Iran has apparently launched 400-500 drones at Israel. Air space over Iraq and Jordan has been closed.
https://www.flightradar24.com/31.66,41.00/4 (https://www.flightradar24.com/31.66,41.00/4)
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Iran has apparently launched 400-500 drones at Israel. Air space over Iraq and Jordan has been closed.
https://www.flightradar24.com/31.66,41.00/4 (https://www.flightradar24.com/31.66,41.00/4)
Do you support any Western intervention?
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Several Iranian drones flying toward Israel were intercepted over the sky in Erbil, likely by American Patriot air defense.
https://twitter.com/KurdistanWatch/status/1779284276892020910 (https://twitter.com/KurdistanWatch/status/1779284276892020910)
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Do you support any Western intervention?
Depends how things transpire.
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US/UK /NATO should, but won't, stay out of this "regional spat". There was no condemnation of nor attempt to prevent the Israeli missile attack on Iranian diplomatic premises in Syria. A blatant "Act of War" by the Zionist state. Iran's legitimate response to this is none of US/UK's business and nor should we be involving ourselves. What do you think should happen when a country attacks another countries diplomatic premises in a third country? Nobody should be supporting and facilitating the war crimes of the Zionist occupiers.
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First Iranian missiles impacting Israel
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/1c3f6ph/first_iranian_missiles_impacting_israel/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/1c3f6ph/first_iranian_missiles_impacting_israel/)
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Looks symbolic more than anything serious. If I was an IDF member I wouldn't fancy getting my leave cancelled to deal with this type of fallout from Bibi's actions.
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Looks symbolic more than anything serious. If I was an IDF member I wouldn't fancy getting my leave cancelled to deal with this type of fallout from Bibi's actions.
Looked stage managed to me Roch, everyone knew it was coming, everything in place to deal with it.
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I think if they wanted it to be effective, they would have had their Proxies engage at the same time, thus trying to overwhelm the defence system Israel have, Giving warning that you have launched missiles is an announcement to your enemy so they can Prepare?
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Looked stage managed to me Roch, everyone knew it was coming, everything in place to deal with it.
I'd say it is a "measured response" rather than stage managed, HB. Iran claim to have "destroyed" the Nevatim Airbase from where the Embassy attack took place. Israel admit to "minor damage". We will see from the satellite pics over next few days. Regardless of this, it is undeniable that a great power shift is taking place.
In the same way that it is dangerous to "corner a rat", it is also dangerous to corner a nuclear armed psychopath. The Collective West in this analogy are the dangerous nuclear armed psychopaths. The "death by a thousand cuts" strategy of the "Collective non-West" has so far kept the conflicts below the threshold of all out war between nuclear superpowers. It has also over the last 10 years or so been gaining strength at the expense of the collective West which has been weakened in every way(militarily, economically and reputationally).
The Axis of Resistance is winning, NATO and their sponsors and co-conspirators are losing. The slowly boiling a frog strategy is more effective than cornering the rat.
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99% of drones and missiles were intercepted.
https://www.ft.com/content/3416aae1-165c-4b97-aa57-4c1589f8e023 (https://www.ft.com/content/3416aae1-165c-4b97-aa57-4c1589f8e023)
Will be interesting to see what happens next.
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I'd say it is a "measured response" rather than stage managed, HB. Iran claim to have "destroyed" the Nevatim Airbase from where the Embassy attack took place. Israel admit to "minor damage". We will see from the satellite pics over next few days. Regardless of this, it is undeniable that a great power shift is taking place.
In the same way that it is dangerous to "corner a rat", it is also dangerous to corner a nuclear armed psychopath. The Collective West in this analogy are the dangerous nuclear armed psychopaths. The "death by a thousand cuts" strategy of the "Collective non-West" has so far kept the conflicts below the threshold of all out war between nuclear superpowers. It has also over the last 10 years or so been gaining strength at the expense of the collective West which has been weakened in every way(militarily, economically and reputationally).
The Axis of Resistance is winning, NATO and their sponsors and co-conspirators are losing. The slowly boiling a frog strategy is more effective than cornering the rat.
For want of a better word Gringo i think your right and it was more a measured response, i personally think Israel was absolutley stupid and Reckless to do what they did when they attacked on the Iranian consulate in Damascus, they are putting the whole region at risk, my son inlaw is in IRAQ at this very moment and it's becoming a tinder box out there.
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99% of drones and missiles were intercepted.
https://www.ft.com/content/3416aae1-165c-4b97-aa57-4c1589f8e023 (https://www.ft.com/content/3416aae1-165c-4b97-aa57-4c1589f8e023)
Will be interesting to see what happens next.
I would treat the 99% interception rate with a healthy dose of scepticism. The interception of missiles is the important metric. The drones are expected to be shot down hence the swarm attacks to overwhelm air defence systems followed by missiles to strike their targets. I would treat both claims(Iranians and Israelis) with scepticism until the picture clears. There is obviously damage to the Israeli air base, they admit this themselves.
What happens next will indeed be interesting. It seems fairly clear that the "Axis of Resistance" hold "escalation dominance". Will Israel respond to the Iranian response? How can they respond without inviting an even greater attack. It has been demonstrated beyond a shadow of doubt that Iranian missiles can reach and hit their targets and that the Israeli AD systems would be helpless in the event of a large scale attack.
The relative cost and availability of drones and missiles as opposed to AD interceptor missiles is the key factor. What do you think would be attrited first?
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For want of a better word Gringo i think your right and it was more a measured response, i personally think Israel was absolutley stupid and Reckless to do what they did when they attacked on the Iranian consulate in Damascus, they are putting the whole region at risk, my son inlaw is in IRAQ at this very moment and it's becoming a tinder box out there.
I agree with your assessment. Hope your son in law stays safe
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I'd say it is a "measured response" rather than stage managed, HB. Iran claim to have "destroyed" the Nevatim Airbase from where the Embassy attack took place. Israel admit to "minor damage". We will see from the satellite pics over next few days. Regardless of this, it is undeniable that a great power shift is taking place.
In the same way that it is dangerous to "corner a rat", it is also dangerous to corner a nuclear armed psychopath. The Collective West in this analogy are the dangerous nuclear armed psychopaths. The "death by a thousand cuts" strategy of the "Collective non-West" has so far kept the conflicts below the threshold of all out war between nuclear superpowers. It has also over the last 10 years or so been gaining strength at the expense of the collective West which has been weakened in every way(militarily, economically and reputationally).
The Axis of Resistance is winning, NATO and their sponsors and co-conspirators are losing. The slowly boiling a frog strategy is more effective than cornering the rat.
The genie is out of the bottle. Whatever you think of the collective West as you call them Iran is now no longer hiding behind its proxies and in full view for the first time has attacked Israeli sovereign territory.
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The relative cost and availability of drones and missiles as opposed to AD interceptor missiles is the key factor. What do you think would be attrited first?
Should it ever come to that Israel would have to strike Iran's launch facilities and Iron Beam will be rushed into service sooner than anticipated.
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The genie is out of the bottle. Whatever you think of the collective West as you call them Iran is now no longer hiding behind its proxies and in full view for the first time has attacked Israeli sovereign territory.
There is zero doubt that the Iranian response to the Vienna Convention breaking Israeli attack on the Iranian diplomatic premises was an act of war. Iran’s response is legal according to any interpretation of International law. Israel’s unprovoked attack wasn’t legal by any interpretation of Int’l law. Is the consulate attack that started this wiped from your memory?
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There is zero doubt that the Iranian response to the Vienna Convention breaking Israeli attack on the Iranian diplomatic premises was an act of war. Iran’s response is legal according to any interpretation of International law. Israel’s unprovoked attack wasn’t legal by any interpretation of Int’l law. Is the consulate attack that started this wiped from your memory?
I read it was next door. Ask yourself what the Iranian Revolutionary Guards are doing in Damascus in the first place.
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Should it ever come to that Israel would have to strike Iran's launch facilities and Iron Beam will be rushed into service sooner than anticipated.
Israel couldn’t strike Iranian launch sites. How will they do this? You do know the distance between Iran and Israel, I take it. Iran’s sites are buried underground and in mountains. Israel have no ground based missile capability that could reach Iran, never mind take out their launch sites. Israeli planes can’t reach Iran without refuelling, airspace closed off to them. How are they going to achieve this objective? They can’t. You lack any insight into the strategies and messages being sent by these actions. Israel is in a bind now and anyone with any understanding knows this.
To not respond to Iran after promises of retribution will show them as weak. Any response will meet with a further escalation from Iran who have demonstrated that they can strike any Israeli target. Iran have kept it restrained but demonstrative enough to show this. Israel cannot defend against advanced Iranian missiles.
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I read it was next door. Ask yourself what the Iranian Revolutionary Guards are doing in Damascus in the first place.
Whatever the IRGC were doing there is irrelevant. They are there at the request and invite of the Syrian government. This is normal international relations. What were Israel doing bombing another country with whom they are not at war with and not have they been attacked by is the question you should be asking. Only war crime apologists ask stupid questions such as the one posed by you. You overlook the blatant crimes of Israel as if they don’t matter. Your bias renders your opinion worthless. You don’t even acknowledge the huge crimes of the Zionists. Crimes that are beyond reasonable debate-ignored by you.
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Israel couldn’t strike Iranian launch sites. How will they do this? You do know the distance between Iran and Israel, I take it. Iran’s sites are buried underground and in mountains. Israel have no ground based missile capability that could reach Iran, never mind take out their launch sites. Israeli planes can’t reach Iran without refuelling, airspace closed off to them. How are they going to achieve this objective?
The Israeli Jericho 3 has a range of 5000km. An F-16 can fly 4000km with drop tanks. Airtankers can refuel aircrafts as long as they have air cover. They also have ballistic submarines that do visit the Persian Gulf.
Considering there was hardly any damaged caused. It would be unwise (IMO) for Israeli to retaliate. The Islamic theocracy in Iran is not very popular at home, and they probably want a retaliation to rally the people.
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Seems a one-sided opinion but a good read nonetheless. I often wonder whether it's wishful thinking though.
https://thecradle.co/articles/how-irans-strategic-patience-switched-to-serious-deterrence
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Seems a one-sided opinion but a good read nonetheless. I often wonder whether it's wishful thinking though.
https://thecradle.co/articles/how-irans-strategic-patience-switched-to-serious-deterrence
The link isn't working.
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Seems that everyone is atracking everyone with sleepy Joe in charge.
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Seems that everyone is atracking everyone with sleepy Joe in charge.
Might as well have a corpse in charge. I'm not a fan of republicans whatsoever. But world affairs seem to have gone to shit since Trump lost.
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Might as well have a corpse in charge. I'm not a fan of republicans whatsoever. But world affairs seem to have gone to shit since Trump lost.
God knows what will happen in the next 4 years if Biden stays.
If Trump gets in can imagine waking up to a different headline every day. Something crazy he has said or done. Even more than last time.
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God knows what will happen in the next 4 years if Biden stays.
If Trump gets in can imagine waking up to a different headline every day. Something crazy he has said or done. Even more than last time.
More than likely yes. I can't believe the democrats could be so stupid as to not replace Biden as the candidate. It's bewildering.
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Does anyone else wonder whether this 'slight damage' claim is credible?
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More than likely yes. I can't believe the democrats could be so stupid as to not replace Biden as the candidate. It's bewildering.
Just don't think it's something either party do. Replace a current President
Carter, Bush snr & Trump were all behind in the polls but were allowed to fight for a second term. The Presidents themselves are too stubborn to step down.
Biden may win a second term.
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This is interesting..
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Trump should be out campaigning. But seems he will stuck in court for several months.
A campaign over world events would have been effective. He could say the current wars would not have happened with him in charge. The billions spent helping Ukraine could have been spent on the American people.
He also claims he would stop the war in Ukraine within 24 hours if re elected. Whether people believe that is another matter.
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Trump should be out campaigning. But seems he will stuck in court for several months.
A campaign over world events would have been effective. He could say the current wars would not have happened with him in charge. The billions spent helping Ukraine could have been spent on the American people.
He also claims he would stop the war in Ukraine within 24 hours if re elected. Whether people believe that is another matter.
The world did feel safer. I don't know whether that was an illusion.
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The world did feel safer. I don't know whether that was an illusion.
I’m in two minds about this, Roch, leaning towards illusion. Some of “Trumps” actions in office were equally acts of war and brought us to the brink. The murder of Iranian General Soleimani in Baghdad being probably the most egregious of these actions, in my view. The Iranian response on that occasion was to strike two US bases in Iraq with a volley of pinpoint missiles. “Trump” vowed, “if a single hair of any US personnel were harmed that Iran would be obliterated” or some such. As it turned out over 100 US personnel were injured as admitted by the U.S. after some weeks.
Even this string of events allows for some ambiguity however. The US or “Trump” didn’t respond to the Iranian attack, which was a direct attack on US personnel. The fact that the Iranian response was legitimate was not a factor in the US non response. Whether this restraint by the US or “Trump” was because of “Trump” or informed by other factors is where some ambiguity lies. I don’t really believe it matters who the US president is. US restraint was more likely because of the demonstration of power by Iran and the obvious threat to all US bases in the Middle East should the US escalate. The US bases were hit only with missiles using kinetic power to damage the two U.S. bases, that is no warheads on the missiles. The implied threat is apparent to all.
That is why I refer to Trump using inverted commas-I’m not sure that even Trump has complete agency to act unilaterally.
I believe the damage is extensive at the two Israeli airbases and likewise with the attack on the US bases, there is a much larger implied threat waiting in the wings should Israel choose to escalate.
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The Israeli Jericho 3 has a range of 5000km. An F-16 can fly 4000km with drop tanks. Airtankers can refuel aircrafts as long as they have air cover. They also have ballistic submarines that do visit the Persian Gulf.
Considering there was hardly any damaged caused. It would be unwise (IMO) for Israeli to retaliate. The Islamic theocracy in Iran is not very popular at home, and they probably want a retaliation to rally the people.
F16’s would have zero chance of getting within range to bomb Iran. Israeli missiles likewise. The response from Iran would end Israel. Iran have demonstrated on numerous occasions that they have excellent air defence and missile technology. Remember the 11 miles high $200m drone that they took out a few years ago for briefly violating their airspace. The US were shocked that Iran had this capability, especially after years of harsh sanctions on the Iranians. All of their capability is Iranian produced and developed. This demonstration once again carried a bigger implied threat than the attack itself. Iran have, as usual, once again given a perfect measured response that carries an unmistakable message.
It is a game of high stakes chess, David. At the moment it appears to me that all of the attacking moves available to the West have been nullified by the collective resistance to Western Imperialism. Like when you play ngb
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F16’s would have zero chance of getting within range to bomb Iran. Israeli missiles likewise. The response from Iran would end Israel. Iran have demonstrated on numerous occasions that they have excellent air defence and missile technology. Remember the 11 miles high $200m drone that they took out a few years ago for briefly violating their airspace.
A drone flying 11 miles above ground is more or less asking to be shot down. A co-ordinated strike into enemy territory of this nature will involve flying very low.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYouEQaoAPI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYouEQaoAPI)
Moreover that drone was in international airspace (contrary to Iran's claims) and thus its operators where not anticipating any danger.
Military equipment is only as good as the competency and skill of those operating it. In Iran's case they struggle to distinguish between a cruise missile and a Boeing 737 that took off from their own capital city.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine_International_Airlines_Flight_752 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine_International_Airlines_Flight_752)
David. At the moment it appears to me that all of the attacking moves available to the West have been nullified by the collective resistance to Western Imperialism. Like when you play ngb
Funnily enough, last Saturday I beat NGB at standard chess (no handicap) for the first time ever! After 183 games. If anything my games against NGB are like Iran's rockets vs Israel's Iron dome. 99% fail rate
I played white.
(https://images.chesscomfiles.com/uploads/game-gifs/90px/green/neo/0/cc/0/0/bUMwS2JzIVRndjVRZkhaUkhRWFFsdDkwY3U2RXB4RU5kbTghb0VURXhFTkVlYzNOdEIxVGRnMk1nRU5FdnAhMXBFMVNCSlFKQ0pTMUVWMThWTDkxTFYxOVZMN1pMMjg3MlM3NlM5Wjg5UzZYUzI4WnNDVExDbDBUMlNMRHVJNDhJcVg0bENUN2tBNzBBSVJJcUkwSUNJWlJJTzg2U1k2WU9ZUlljYlkwaD80WG1IWFlIUQ,,.gif)
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A drone flying 11 miles above ground is more or less asking to be shot down. A co-ordinated strike into enemy territory of this nature will involve flying very low.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYouEQaoAPI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYouEQaoAPI)
Moreover that drone was in international airspace (contrary to Iran's claims) and thus its operators where not anticipating any danger.
Military equipment is only as good as the competency and skill of those operating it. In Iran's case they struggle to distinguish between a cruise missile and a Boeing 737 that took off from their own capital city.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine_International_Airlines_Flight_752 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine_International_Airlines_Flight_752)
Funnily enough, last Saturday I beat NGB at standard chess (no handicap) for the first time ever! After 183 games. If anything my games against NGB are like Iran's rockets vs Israel's Iron dome. 99% fail rate
I played white.
(https://images.chesscomfiles.com/uploads/game-gifs/90px/green/neo/0/cc/0/0/bUMwS2JzIVRndjVRZkhaUkhRWFFsdDkwY3U2RXB4RU5kbTghb0VURXhFTkVlYzNOdEIxVGRnMk1nRU5FdnAhMXBFMVNCSlFKQ0pTMUVWMThWTDkxTFYxOVZMN1pMMjg3MlM3NlM5Wjg5UzZYUzI4WnNDVExDbDBUMlNMRHVJNDhJcVg0bENUN2tBNzBBSVJJcUkwSUNJWlJJTzg2U1k2WU9ZUlljYlkwaD80WG1IWFlIUQ,,.gif)
Iron dome intercepted none of the missiles that were meant to hit hence the two airbases and intel centre that were involved in the Damascus attack being struck. Iran sent a message and that message has been received. Israel needed U.S. and UK jets to take down some drones and missiles and cost them 1.3 billion dollars in air defence. What if Iran stepped up the scale by 10? What if they did this for a week/a month? Who do imagine would run out first? The scale and nature of the attack revealed much about the vulnerabilities of Israel which are many. Iran held back on using their most sophisticated weaponry and this is well understood by would be aggressors.
The US cannot attack Iran because the moment they do every US base in the Middle East will be completely destroyed with tens of thousands of US casualties. Everyone who matters understands the price of attacking Iran is way too high. You either don’t or choose not to but there will be no direct attack on Iran. If Israel are mad enough to unilaterally attack anyway, there will be no direct involvement from the US.
Iron dome demonstrably couldn’t cope with an attack using old slow drones and a few missiles and required US/UK to scramble jets to assist. Iran can multiply the scale by magnitudes. Israel can’t.
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Another bill is going through America. This time for 61 billion to go to Ukraine.
The Ukrainian PM saying they need it 'yesterday'.
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Another bill is going through America. This time for 61 billion to go to Ukraine.
The Ukrainian PM saying they need it 'yesterday'.
They need a miracle. 61 billion won’t change anything
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A drone flying 11 miles above ground is more or less asking to be shot down. A co-ordinated strike into enemy territory of this nature will involve flying very low.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYouEQaoAPI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYouEQaoAPI)
Moreover that drone was in international airspace (contrary to Iran's claims) and thus its operators where not anticipating any danger.
Military equipment is only as good as the competency and skill of those operating it. In Iran's case they struggle to distinguish between a cruise missile and a Boeing 737 that took off from their own capital city.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine_International_Airlines_Flight_752 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine_International_Airlines_Flight_752)
Funnily enough, last Saturday I beat NGB at standard chess (no handicap) for the first time ever! After 183 games. If anything my games against NGB are like Iran's rockets vs Israel's Iron dome. 99% fail rate
I played white.
(https://images.chesscomfiles.com/uploads/game-gifs/90px/green/neo/0/cc/0/0/bUMwS2JzIVRndjVRZkhaUkhRWFFsdDkwY3U2RXB4RU5kbTghb0VURXhFTkVlYzNOdEIxVGRnMk1nRU5FdnAhMXBFMVNCSlFKQ0pTMUVWMThWTDkxTFYxOVZMN1pMMjg3MlM3NlM5Wjg5UzZYUzI4WnNDVExDbDBUMlNMRHVJNDhJcVg0bENUN2tBNzBBSVJJcUkwSUNJWlJJTzg2U1k2WU9ZUlljYlkwaD80WG1IWFlIUQ,,.gif)
Very well played David, I'm sure NGB will agree, you worked your Knights really well.
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Funnily enough, last Saturday I beat NGB at standard chess (no handicap) for the first time ever! After 183 games. If anything my games against NGB are like Iran's rockets vs Israel's Iron dome. 99% fail rate
I played white.
You played well.
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I’m in two minds about this, Roch, leaning towards illusion. Some of “Trumps” actions in office were equally acts of war and brought us to the brink. The murder of Iranian General Soleimani in Baghdad being probably the most egregious of these actions, in my view. The Iranian response on that occasion was to strike two US bases in Iraq with a volley of pinpoint missiles. “Trump” vowed, “if a single hair of any US personnel were harmed that Iran would be obliterated” or some such. As it turned out over 100 US personnel were injured as admitted by the U.S. after some weeks.
Even this string of events allows for some ambiguity however. The US or “Trump” didn’t respond to the Iranian attack, which was a direct attack on US personnel. The fact that the Iranian response was legitimate was not a factor in the US non response. Whether this restraint by the US or “Trump” was because of “Trump” or informed by other factors is where some ambiguity lies. I don’t really believe it matters who the US president is. US restraint was more likely because of the demonstration of power by Iran and the obvious threat to all US bases in the Middle East should the US escalate. The US bases were hit only with missiles using kinetic power to damage the two U.S. bases, that is no warheads on the missiles. The implied threat is apparent to all.
That is why I refer to Trump using inverted commas-I’m not sure that even Trump has complete agency to act unilaterally.
I believe the damage is extensive at the two Israeli airbases and likewise with the attack on the US bases, there is a much larger implied threat waiting in the wings should Israel choose to escalate.
He seemed to alright with the North Koreans Gringo.
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He seemed to alright with the North Koreans Gringo.
Although it made a positive impact on US North Korea relations. Trumps sole motive was his respect for authoritarianism.
He was close with Putin and Kim Jong-Un, because like attracts like. He tried to fraudulently and violently impose a 2nd term Trump administration on his own people.
With all the criminal charges looming over his head. It would be rather shocking if he wins the next election.
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I feel ashamed to live in this Country, this should not be Happening. If it was Miners marching week in and week out through London, they would have been battered and locked up, because it's Palestine's they turn a blind eye, The London MET are useless and not fit for Purpose.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13325691/Shocking-moment-police-officer-threatens-ARREST-Jewish-man-breaching-peace-stopped-crossing-road-pro-Palestine-march-London.html
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I feel ashamed to live in this Country, this should not be Happening. If it was Miners marching week in and week out through London, they would have been battered and locked up, because it's Palestine's they turn a blind eye, The London MET are useless and not fit for Purpose.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13325691/Shocking-moment-police-officer-threatens-ARREST-Jewish-man-breaching-peace-stopped-crossing-road-pro-Palestine-march-London.html
I have to disagree with you here HB. I agree with you entirely about policing of the miners' strike. However this situation is very different. The problem shown in the video here was not with the demonstrators, but the lack of judgement by the police officer. He should not have prevented the individual from getting close to the demonstration. He only did that because he was obviously Jewish. The idea that he was therefore likely to be attacked by demonstrators was a ridiculous one. The demonstration was orderly and well stewarded. There was a huge Jewish section on the march, as well as many other Jews elsewhere on the march. The Mail are promoting the narrative that Jews are no longer safe in London as a result of pro- Palestine marches. That is completely untrue. The Mail is fanatical in support of Israel and its crimes and would like to see the marches banned.
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I have to disagree with you here HB. I agree with you entirely about policing of the miners' strike. However this situation is very different. The problem shown in the video here was not with the demonstrators, but the lack of judgement by the police officer. He should not have prevented the individual from getting close to the demonstration. He only did that because he was obviously Jewish. The idea that he was therefore likely to be attacked by demonstrators was a ridiculous one. The demonstration was orderly and well stewarded. There was a huge Jewish section on the march, as well as many other Jews elsewhere on the march. The Mail are promoting the narrative that Jews are no longer safe in London as a result of pro- Palestine marches. That is completely untrue. The Mail is fanatical in support of Israel and its crimes and would like to see the marches banned.
My main gripe was about the Police [MET] NGB, he should never have said the things he said and stopped free movement of any Person. I have mixed feelings about Demo's week in and week out NGB, i know the miners did Demonstrations, but they wasn't week in and week out, in London, i actually went on the one to Downing Street, and it was very peaceful from what i can remember. But i don't mind Demo's, but when its in the same City's week in and week out i don't think it's fair on the general Public, as a whole and certainly the Jewish community in London, doesn't matter what we think, but they must sometimes feel intimidated by it, there is no hiding from the fact it is about them.
I agree about the Daily Mail, i don't always look at it, but i look at the Sport and it is free online ;D
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Everyone who matters understands the price of attacking Iran is way too high. You either don’t or choose not to but there will be no direct attack on Iran.
Israel couldn’t strike Iranian launch sites. How will they do this? You do know the distance between Iran and Israel, I take it. Iran’s sites are buried underground and in mountains. Israel have no ground based missile capability that could reach Iran, never mind take out their launch sites. Israeli planes can’t reach Iran without refuelling, airspace closed off to them.
🤡
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https://thecradle.co/articles/iran-says-no-external-aggression-following-mysterious-drone-attack
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There was no Israeli attack on Iran. What do you imagine happened? Iran have firmly established deterrence. Your clown face reply is idiotic given that everything I stated still stands
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He seemed to alright with the North Koreans Gringo.
I don't necessarily disagree, Roch, but I remain unconvinced either way. He does seem to really get under the skin of the war hawks in both parties, which is a plus if it isn't theatre. Those same war hawks are the ones desperate to keep him from power using every trick in the book. The problem, for me, is that for every action such as the North Korea initiative there is a counter argument. Recognising the Golan Heights unilaterally as Israeli territory, moving the US Embassy to Jerusalem, the murder of Soleimani. It is a confusing picture to say the least.
I expect the US election, if it takes place, to be an even more obviously corrupt farce than the 2020 election. It is obvious that Trump would win in a legitimate election and equally obvious that if an election happens, it will be interfered with. How do you see this playing out?
There is an appearance, to me at least, that Trump is less controllable. Clinton, Obama were self evidently compromised in some ways and controllable and controlled by unseen puppet masters. Biden likewise is compromised and senile to boot. He isn't in control of what he eats for breakfast never mind the Presidency.
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"Umbra synthetic aperture radar imagery acquired 0648Z 19APR2024 showed evidence of damage to the Iranian S-300PMU2 strategic surface-to-air missile battery in Isfahan since 15APR2024. A probable damaged 30N6E target engagement radar was visible in imagery still on the radar hardstand. Other battery system components however have been withdrawn from the site. Their status and location is currently unclear. According to senior U.S. military sources speaking to FOX News, “The Israelis hit what they intended to strike.”
(https://i.ibb.co/G3xVKTJ/22645018-0.jpg)
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There was no Israeli attack on Iran. What do you imagine happened? Iran have firmly established deterrence. Your clown face reply is idiotic given that everything I stated still stands
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David I wonder what the Iranians and Israelis think about the sea wall.
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"Umbra synthetic aperture radar imagery acquired 0648Z 19APR2024 showed evidence of damage to the Iranian S-300PMU2 strategic surface-to-air missile battery in Isfahan since 15APR2024. A probable damaged 30N6E target engagement radar was visible in imagery still on the radar hardstand. Other battery system components however have been withdrawn from the site. Their status and location is currently unclear. According to senior U.S. military sources speaking to FOX News, “The Israelis hit what they intended to strike.”
(https://i.ibb.co/G3xVKTJ/22645018-0.jpg)
It is clear to anyone interested in the truth that there is zero evidence of an Israeli attack on Iran. The whole thing was at first backed up by footage from Lebanon. There is no footage, no evidence of any attack. Some missiles landed in Iraq. The whole thing is a face saving psy-op. The quadcopter drones were no doubt launched by foreign backed/funded MEK elements within Iran.
Your track record on these matters is poor. You have spent the last three years or so pronouncing that Russia are running out of missiles, stealing washing machines for their chips, have a weak economy, a poor military and who are incapable of out attriting NATO. Three years on and NATO leaders admit the poor state of their supply and production is way behind Russia. According to the IMF Russia has the fastest growing economy in Europe whilst those who set out to crush Russia economically are in recession.
It is also clear that the attempt to isolate and demonise Russia has backfired on the would be bullies. Israel, US and NATO/western countries generally displaying all of their ugly nakedness for the Rest of the World(ROW) to see. The ROW has seen and is reacting. France and the US are being removed from Africa. US are totally isolated in the UN, even more so after their hypocrisy of "supporting a two state solution" was exposed as the lie and sham it always was when they vetoed Palestinian stateship in the UNSC yesterday.
The global majority of Africa, Asia and South America are turning to the multipolar model proposed by China/Russia and represented in the growth and growing power of BRICS+. US/UK/Israel are trying to prevent multi-polarity and hang on to their hegemonic status and are becoming increasingly savage in their desperation. Everyone sees this now, except the wilfully blind.
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https://news.sky.com/story/israels-tough-words-following-iranian-attack-are-a-threat-not-an-action-irans-un-ambassador-says-13115749
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It is clear to anyone interested in the truth that there is zero evidence of an Israeli attack on Iran. The whole thing was at first backed up by footage from Lebanon. There is no footage, no evidence of any attack. Some missiles landed in Iraq. The whole thing is a face saving psy-op. The quadcopter drones were no doubt launched by foreign backed/funded MEK elements within Iran.
Your track record on these matters is poor. You have spent the last three years or so pronouncing that Russia are running out of missiles, stealing washing machines for their chips, have a weak economy, a poor military and who are incapable of out attriting NATO. Three years on and NATO leaders admit the poor state of their supply and production is way behind Russia. According to the IMF Russia has the fastest growing economy in Europe whilst those who set out to crush Russia economically are in recession.
It is also clear that the attempt to isolate and demonise Russia has backfired on the would be bullies. Israel, US and NATO/western countries generally displaying all of their ugly nakedness for the Rest of the World(ROW) to see. The ROW has seen and is reacting. France and the US are being removed from Africa. US are totally isolated in the UN, even more so after their hypocrisy of "supporting a two state solution" was exposed as the lie and sham it always was when they vetoed Palestinian stateship in the UNSC yesterday.
The global majority of Africa, Asia and South America are turning to the multipolar model proposed by China/Russia and represented in the growth and growing power of BRICS+. US/UK/Israel are trying to prevent multi-polarity and hang on to their hegemonic status and are becoming increasingly savage in their desperation. Everyone sees this now, except the wilfully blind.
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(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/137D6/production/_133203897_guideline_iran_isfahan_target_640-2x-nc.png.webp)
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(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/137D6/production/_133203897_guideline_iran_isfahan_target_640-2x-nc.png.webp)
The "evidence" that you bring forward to back up your assertions is laughable in the extreme. Where is the footage of explosions, missiles striking, air defence firing interceptors? All of this is available for the Iranian attack and for all other missile attacks. Instead we get bullshit such as the nonsense offered by you. Real concrete evidence of this alleged attack is conspicuous by its absence because it didn't happen. Had it happened there would be real undeniable evidence by way of footage. Initially footage of missile strikes in Lebanon was circulated as "evidence", which was obviously rapidly identified and debunked. Since then the "evidence" offered has been of the "trust me bro" variety.
What exactly are you saying occurred in this Israeli attack? How many missiles, drones etc.? Where was struck? by what? etc etc. Paint us the picture of what, when and how occurred in this attack on Iran that you claim took place
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https://thecradle.co/articles/precision-over-power-how-irans-obsolete-missiles-penetrated-israels-air-defenses
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The "evidence" that you bring forward to back up your assertions is laughable in the extreme. Where is the footage of explosions, missiles striking, air defence firing interceptors? All of this is available for the Iranian attack and for all other missile attacks. Instead we get bullshit such as the nonsense offered by you. Real concrete evidence of this alleged attack is conspicuous by its absence because it didn't happen. Had it happened there would be real undeniable evidence by way of footage. Initially footage of missile strikes in Lebanon was circulated as "evidence", which was obviously rapidly identified and debunked. Since then the "evidence" offered has been of the "trust me bro" variety.
What exactly are you saying occurred in this Israeli attack? How many missiles, drones etc.? Where was struck? by what? etc etc. Paint us the picture of what, when and how occurred in this attack on Iran that you claim took place
I'm sure no attack happened in your Tankie fantasy world. And I suggest you keep this fantasy world to yourself before you make an even bigger 🤡 of yourself. And on top of that seek professional help.
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I'm sure no attack happened in your Tankie fantasy world. And I suggest you keep this fantasy world to yourself before you make an even bigger 🤡 of yourself. And on top of that seek professional help.
So tell us what exactly happened in this attack. I have asked you twice already, so for the third time, "How, what, where did this attack take place?" Clown faces and insults as replies only demonstrate that you cannot answer the most basic questions about this alleged attack. If you can't tell us even the most basic details then how can you have any honest conviction in this claim?
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I'm sure no attack happened in your Tankie fantasy world. And I suggest you keep this fantasy world to yourself before you make an even bigger 🤡 of yourself. And on top of that seek professional help.
Israel's genocidal attacks in Palestine meanwhile continue unabated. Have you nothing to say about the evidenced, filmed attacks on civilians by the IDF? Acting as an apologist and dissembler of lies on behalf of a regime currently genociding the civilian population of Palestine, as you do, ignoring their crimes which are broadcast all over social media daily shows that you are not a serious person and incapable of honest debate on geopolitical issues.
Were you serious then you would answer the now thrice repeated question asking for the details of the attack that you allege occurred. It shouldn't be a "trick question". You shouldn't need to avoid it and post insults and clown faces as a response rather than answering what should be a simple question. That you can't reply coherently to what should be an easy question, tells me that you have no coherent answer.
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Israel's genocidal attacks in Palestine meanwhile continue unabated. Have you nothing to say about the evidenced, filmed attacks on civilians by the IDF? Acting as an apologist and dissembler of lies on behalf of a regime currently genociding the civilian population of Palestine, as you do, ignoring their crimes which are broadcast all over social media daily shows that you are not a serious person and incapable of honest debate on geopolitical issues.
Were you serious then you would answer the now thrice repeated question asking for the details of the attack that you allege occurred. It shouldn't be a "trick question". You shouldn't need to avoid it and post insults and clown faces as a response rather than answering what should be a simple question. That you can't reply coherently to what should be an easy question, tells me that you have no coherent answer.
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My main gripe was about the Police [MET] NGB, he should never have said the things he said and stopped free movement of any Person. I have mixed feelings about Demo's week in and week out NGB, i know the miners did Demonstrations, but they wasn't week in and week out, in London, i actually went on the one to Downing Street, and it was very peaceful from what i can remember. But i don't mind Demo's, but when its in the same City's week in and week out i don't think it's fair on the general Public, as a whole and certainly the Jewish community in London, doesn't matter what we think, but they must sometimes feel intimidated by it, there is no hiding from the fact it is about them.
I agree about the Daily Mail, i don't always look at it, but i look at the Sport and it is free online ;D
I have looked further into this HB and all is not as it was first presented. It is worth watching the full video clip which puts what happened into context: https://news.sky.com/story/sky-news-footage-reveals-new-details-of-exchange-between-police-and-antisemitism-campaigner-called-openly-jewish-13120104. Having viewed this it is clear that the police overall handled this extremely well. The person involved is a well known provocateur and a militant Zionist, determined to create an incident for his own purposes. He was very lucky not to be arrested - if any of the pro- Palestinian people in the area had behaved liked this (including pushing one of the police officers) he would undoubtedly have been arrested. The words used by one of the police officers were ill chosen but he was dealing with a difficult situation where the person involved was clearly intent on creating a violent interaction with the demonstrators. The Mail and other news outlets only showed a short clip which was entirely out of context. All credit to Sky News was publishing the entire 13 minute clip. The individual concerned has a history of this - I may post more in due course. I certainly hope that none of the police officers concerned face disciplinary action because in this instance they do not deserve it. I also hope the Met Police Commissioner stands firm.
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I have looked further into this HB and all is not as it was first presented. It is worth watching the full video clip which puts what happened into context: https://news.sky.com/story/sky-news-footage-reveals-new-details-of-exchange-between-police-and-antisemitism-campaigner-called-openly-jewish-13120104. Having viewed this it is clear that the police overall handled this extremely well. The person involved is a well known provocateur and a militant Zionist, determined to create an incident for his own purposes. He was very lucky not to be arrested - if any of the pro- Palestinian people in the area had behaved liked this (including pushing one of the police officers) he would undoubtedly have been arrested. The words used by one of the police officers were ill chosen but he was dealing with a difficult situation where the person involved was clearly intent on creating a violent interaction with the demonstrators. The Mail and other news outlets only showed a short clip which was entirely out of context. All credit to Sky News was publishing the entire 13 minute clip. The individual concerned has a history of this - I may post more in due course. I certainly hope that none of the police officers concerned face disciplinary action because in this instance they do not deserve it. I also hope the Met Police Commissioner stands firm.
Hi NGB, iv'e been away for weekend and yes i did pick up about him being well known for his Millitant behaviour. And i agree it was stage managed, I did watch last night the Police was getting praised for how they delt with it overall and even though the words chosen were totally wrong, overall they was put in a difficult position. But these marches are happening week in and week out, i have to spare a thought for the Jewish population in London, who probably are having to avoid such area's, i wouldn't want to be Jewish and walking through London now with my wife and Children, also the fact, the resources it is taking to Police these Demo's in different city's when these officers should be out there fighting crime, and to be honest NGB after all this, i think it will have serious repercussions in the future for peaceful demonstrations?
I think the MET should be putting the Public Order act 1986 in to better use, it gives them powers to limit the number of People involved and they can change the route and limit duration. Imagine working hard all week and then you go into your City to be confronted week in and week out with these sort of Demo's and someone blurting out "from the river to the sea" to the sound of drums beating.
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That bloke has one of those faces you just want to smack.
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That bloke has one of those faces you just want to smack.
If you read more about him you will want to smack him hard! Have a look at his stunt with the van, and the false evidence he gave in court against a civil servant a couple of years ago. He is also UK representative of a particularly unpleasant Israeli organisation. He attends every London Palestine demo with his posse and provokes in the hope of getting a violent or abusive reaction so that he can use the video to promote his "Jews are not safe in London" propaganda.
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If you read more about him you will want to smack him hard! Have a look at his stunt with the van, and the false evidence he gave in court against a civil servant a couple of years ago. He is also UK representative of a particularly unpleasant Israeli organisation. He attends every London Palestine demo with his posse and provokes in the hope of getting a violent or abusive reaction so that he can use the video to promote his "Jews are not safe in London" propaganda.
I'll take your word for it ngb. I tell you what, that Suella Braverman is another awful individual. Where do they keep getting them from?
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That bloke has one of those faces you just want to smack.
Forget the face Roch, it doesn't matter whoever it was and he is Jewish, he would have been treated the same. It's a matter of being able to walk the streets safely and this guy, i accept he's trying to get a police reaction, but he's demonstarting and highlighting the problem Jews are facing. Forget your stance for one minute and put yourself into this picture with your wife and kids, it's not right week in week out that they are having to face this, that's all i'm saying.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cimR_AxaYxs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-_LO3KJvu8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYOlCwSyylI
People should be able to walk the streets safely Roch.
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Forget the face Roch, it doesn't matter whoever it was and he is Jewish, he would have been treated the same. It's a matter of being able to walk the streets safely and this guy, i accept he's trying to get a police reaction, but he's demonstarting and highlighting the problem Jews are facing. Forget your stance for one minute and put yourself into this picture with your wife and kids, it's not right week in week out that they are having to face this, that's all i'm saying.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cimR_AxaYxs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-_LO3KJvu8
People should be able to walk the streets safely Roch.
There's a big Jewish community up our way HB, in Gateshead. There is a talmudical college there it might be famous. I've not heard of any issues up here. Whatever protests there may have been seem to have remained trouble free. However, not all Jewish communities necessarily support Zionism. I'm not sure where the Gateshead community stands but they are orthodox Jews.
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There's a big Jewish community up our way HB, in Gateshead. There is a talmudical college there it might be famous. I've not heard of any issues up here. Whatever protests there may have been seem to have remained trouble free. However, not all Jewish communities necessarily support Zionism. I'm not sure where the Gateshead community stands but they are orthodox Jews.
I was up that way at the weekend, Durham, Consett and Otterburn
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There's a big Jewish community up our way HB, in Gateshead. There is a talmudical college there it might be famous. I've not heard of any issues up here. Whatever protests there may have been seem to have remained trouble free. However, not all Jewish communities necessarily support Zionism. I'm not sure where the Gateshead community stands but they are orthodox Jews.
I'm talking about London and the City's Roch, i'm sure there are Jews around here who are not affected.
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I was up that way at the weekend, Durham, Consett and Otterburn
Bit of a triangle there HB.
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Bit of a triangle there HB.
Yes, really enjoyed it Roch, it reminded me of the Peak District a little, without the hills ;D ;D
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Satellite photos suggest Iran air defense radar struck in Isfahan during apparent Israeli attack.
https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/satellite-photos-suggest-iran-air-defense-radar-struck-in-isfahan-during-apparent-israeli-attack/ (https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/satellite-photos-suggest-iran-air-defense-radar-struck-in-isfahan-during-apparent-israeli-attack/)
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Satellite photos suggest Iran air defense radar struck in Isfahan during apparent Israeli attack.
https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/satellite-photos-suggest-iran-air-defense-radar-struck-in-isfahan-during-apparent-israeli-attack/ (https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/satellite-photos-suggest-iran-air-defense-radar-struck-in-isfahan-during-apparent-israeli-attack/)
"suggest"- this is pathetic in terms of evidence of anything.
https://twitter.com/ME_Observer_/status/1782506807157563742
https://twitter.com/WarWatchs/status/1782492795992682809
Both of the above links have clearer imagery that show no damage. Your evidence of this "massive attack" is remarkably light on both detail and evidence. Your evidence so far has consisted of anonymous quotes given to Fox News and some satellite photos that a reporter claims "suggest" an Iranian radar was struck. What damage exactly is "suggested" by this image? You have failed to give any details of this attack despite repeated requests. You have no details. How can you display such certainty that an attack happened despite having zero information about the nature of the attack?
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"suggest"- this is pathetic in terms of evidence of anything.
https://twitter.com/ME_Observer_/status/1782506807157563742
https://twitter.com/WarWatchs/status/1782492795992682809
Both of the above links have clearer imagery that show no damage. Your evidence of this "massive attack" is remarkably light on both detail and evidence. Your evidence so far has consisted of anonymous quotes given to Fox News and some satellite photos that a reporter claims "suggest" an Iranian radar was struck. What damage exactly is "suggested" by this image? You have failed to give any details of this attack despite repeated requests. You have no details. How can you display such certainty that an attack happened despite having zero information about the nature of the attack?
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Where have I stated this was a "massive attack"? Stop moving the goal posts and putting words in my mouth that I never said.
Its obvious from the before and after satellite photos that the s-300 radar has been struck and the surrounding missile nodes removed. Why do you think what was once a radar is situated in the centre of large patch black soot? 🤡
As for what weapon/aircraft was used why do you expect me to be privy to such information? Israel is not going to confirm or deny what happened. The Iranians will probably deduce what it was from the debris, but they wont go public with that information either.
If I were the Ayatollah, I'd be reading the fine print in the warranties for those Russian surface to air missile systems.
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🤡
Where have I stated this was a "massive attack"? Stop moving the goal posts and putting words in my mouth that I never said.
Its obvious from the before and after satellite photos that the s-300 radar has been struck and the surrounding missile nodes removed. Why do you think what was once a radar is situated in the centre of large patch black soot? 🤡
As for what weapon/aircraft was used why do you expect me to be privy to such information? Israel is not going to confirm or deny what happened. The Iranians will probably deduce what it was from the debris, but they wont go public with that information either.
If I were the Ayatollah, I'd be reading the fine print in the warranties for those Russian surface to air missile systems.
You have no evidence and the satellite imagery available shows no damage. We are privy to what hit the Israelis. We were privy to what struck the consulate in Damascus. Maybe the difference is that they happened, hence we have some details, whereas the attack that you allege didn't happen. How do you explain the abundance of clearer satellite imagery showing no damage?
Everyone understands the new equation established by Iran. Everything else is hot air which you unsurprisingly are repeating. Iran have an abundance of information on where and how Israeli defences operate now. It turns out that even with warning ahead of the attack, Iran are able to penetrate Israeli air defence even despite US/UK jets scrambling to take down drones and missiles and they did this using only 200 slow drones and a bunch of older missiles. Iran can increase that by magnitudes, every day if they wanted. Israel cannot defend against it. No amount of cope changes this.
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"Iranian Rapper Toomaj Salehi Sentenced to Death for Songs Critical of Government"
https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/toomaj-salehi-iranian-rapper-sentenced-to-death-protest-music-1235011381/ (https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/toomaj-salehi-iranian-rapper-sentenced-to-death-protest-music-1235011381/)
With the Islamic Theocracy only resonating with the older generations. I would give it a decade at most before there is a revolution.
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Insiders account of Iran's attack on two Israeli strategic sites.. '15 out of 17 missiles got through'.
https://thecradle.co/articles/delivering-a-true-promise-an-insider-account-of-irans-strikes-on-israel?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR0zcdy6WoB3GAVrtEFzr9lq5Nqx_g7qX3gH8MYAqOEqHoEY3_GyRyG_qgs_aem_AbhJr9kTQYy-FE33aI7E99A_tD8XCdIW22eNMxI9_XNWCUKYipf3Z46sCCXZNGlJtLlwzA3exE5cqmlAi028osoO
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Insiders account of Iran's attack on two Israeli strategic sites.. '15 out of 17 missiles got through'.
https://thecradle.co/articles/delivering-a-true-promise-an-insider-account-of-irans-strikes-on-israel?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR0zcdy6WoB3GAVrtEFzr9lq5Nqx_g7qX3gH8MYAqOEqHoEY3_GyRyG_qgs_aem_AbhJr9kTQYy-FE33aI7E99A_tD8XCdIW22eNMxI9_XNWCUKYipf3Z46sCCXZNGlJtLlwzA3exE5cqmlAi028osoO
Pure fantasy
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Pure fantasy
Can you prove that?
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The Qasem Soleimani Airstrike, 2020 - Animated
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hsn2z3gZzg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hsn2z3gZzg)
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The Qasem Soleimani Airstrike, 2020 - Animated
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hsn2z3gZzg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hsn2z3gZzg)
What else can one expect from the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine_International_Airlines_Flight_752
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Iran missile attack on Israeli school: https://youtu.be/P28HIKs6bhI
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Iran missile attack on Israeli school: https://youtu.be/P28HIKs6bhI
Israel waits until the schools are full of kids and traumatised families seeking refuge before sending their missiles. One of most evil regimes in the world. Should have stuck with the moderate who was assassinated. Doubt we we oilf be here we are now if they had.
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Israel waits until the schools are full of kids and traumatised families seeking refuge before sending their missiles. One of most evil regimes in the world. Should have stuck with the moderate who was assassinated. Doubt we we oilf be here we are now if they had.
Israel is no threat to any state if not targeted inside its own borders.
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https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/10/2/biden-says-he-would-not-back-israeli-strike-on-irans-nuclear-sites
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Head to Head
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Israel is no threat to any state if not targeted inside its own borders.
Utter rubbish. It is the biggest threat to world peace today. A terrorist regime run by evil supremacists. Without US support they would not last a month.
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Utter rubbish. It is the biggest threat to world peace today. A terrorist regime run by evil supremacists. Without US support they would not last a month.
In what context are you basing is this on? The USA withdrawing its military and diplomatic support for Israel and becoming neutral? Or Uncle Sam doing a complete 180 taking up and supporting the Palestinian cause?
If its the former, Israel will survive but it certainly wouldn't thrive, life would be difficult. If its the latter then it will probably last about 6 month.
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Utter rubbish. It is the biggest threat to world peace today. A terrorist regime run by evil supremacists. Without US support they would not last a month.
Even with US support, the days of the terrorist Zionist regime are coming to an end in my view, ngb. Their status as world pariahs and genocidaires now firmly rooted in world opinion. Iran's latest strike on Israeli military and intelligence sites only solidifies the pariah/criminal status of the Zionists. In contrast to the actual terrorists in the Middle East (Israel) whose bombing has led to the complete obliteration of vital civilian infrastructure(hospitals, schools, water purification, electricity supplies) and an uncountable number of civilian deaths-Iran's retaliation was against purely military sites with zero civilian deaths.
The world can see very clearly who the terrorists and their enablers are. Not only the Zionists are finished but the enablers of Empire (US/UK and various vassal states) are also about to lose their status. Anyone still acting as apologists for the Zionists and their enablers is beyond redemption.
Iran's attack, the success of which is all over X and telegram channels with footage, has demonstrated that Iran can hit anywhere in the Zionist entity. The missiles took minutes from launch in Iran to impact in Israel. The Israelis cannot defend against these missiles. Iran can send 10/20 times more next time. The Zionists have no way to protect the vital infrastructure against an Iranian attack. Haifa desalination and chemical plant could easily be destroyed with the resultant consequences, as could Dimona Nuclear power plant and Ben Gurion airport and all the seaports. The Zios are becoming increasingly exposed and isolated. Their crimes repulse the world.
Nasrallah may be martyred now but his prediction of Israel not reaching 80 is looking increasingly likely.
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Israel waits until the schools are full of kids and traumatised families seeking refuge before sending their missiles. One of most evil regimes in the world. Should have stuck with the moderate who was assassinated. Doubt we we oilf be here we are now if they had.
And then Western leaders and media talking heads rattle on about Israel's "right to self defence". Tens of thousands of children killed and not a word of condemnation. Pager attacks injuring and killing medical staff and children amongst others celebrated in the West as innovative. It is the definition of terrorism and the reaction from western states media and governments is a demonstration of the depths to which the West has sunk. This would have been unequivocally condemned by all as little as ten years ago. Israel's assassination of Nasrallah along with half a dozen or so tower blocks leading to uncounted civilian deaths in their hundreds, again not a word of condemnation.
Iran's attack on Israel's military facilities, currently being used to effect this genocide, in contrast is within all bounds of international law. The Israeli assassination of Ismail Haniyeh in Tehran recently was an attack on Iranian sovereignty recognised in international law and raised by Iran at the UNSC. Their response, on military targets alone, entirely proportionate and with zero civilian deaths.
Western leaders and media all immediately condemn Iran for their "escalation". The West is discrediting itself in front of the world. I have long believed and stated that Western Empire will be defeated "by a thousand cuts" as that is the only way to bring down such a beast with as minimal damage as possible. We are approaching critical mass rapidly.
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Pure fantasy
Insiders account of Iran's attack on two Israeli strategic sites.. '15 out of 17 missiles got through'.
https://thecradle.co/articles/delivering-a-true-promise-an-insider-account-of-irans-strikes-on-israel?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR0zcdy6WoB3GAVrtEFzr9lq5Nqx_g7qX3gH8MYAqOEqHoEY3_GyRyG_qgs_aem_AbhJr9kTQYy-FE33aI7E99A_tD8XCdIW22eNMxI9_XNWCUKYipf3Z46sCCXZNGlJtLlwzA3exE5cqmlAi028osoO
https://x.com/squatsons/status/1841548683566821424
Israel air bases covered by a digital cloud today in order to prevent satellite photos being taken. Iran have done significant damage.
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Iran missile attack on Israeli school: https://youtu.be/P28HIKs6bhI
If the damage was from an Iranian missile then there would be a crater. The damage is clearly from a misfired air defence system. Funny that he didn't do his "report" from the Nevatim air base which he mentioned in his report that was hit in rapid succession by a dozen or so missiles;
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/uIB28MBDujw
as evidenced all over foreign media and social media. The damage shown to the school by the Sky propagandist, masquerading as a journalist, is not consistent with missile damage. Anyone can see this.
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Professor Marandi dismantles Sky propagandist, Mark Austin, calmly, eloquently and with a knowing smile. Excellent stuff;
https://x.com/5Pillarsuk/status/1841456226434998472
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Where have I stated this was a "massive attack"? Stop moving the goal posts and putting words in my mouth that I never said.
Its obvious from the before and after satellite photos that the s-300 radar has been struck and the surrounding missile nodes removed. Why do you think what was once a radar is situated in the centre of large patch black soot? 🤡
As for what weapon/aircraft was used why do you expect me to be privy to such information? Israel is not going to confirm or deny what happened. The Iranians will probably deduce what it was from the debris, but they wont go public with that information either.
If I were the Ayatollah, I'd be reading the fine print in the warranties for those Russian surface to air missile systems.
The one's that got through i think they let by all accounts? Imagine what they will be like once their Laser project is up and running?
Although some missiles appeared to breach Israeli defences, Prof Clarke claimed this could have been a deliberate decision by the IDF to 'let go' the missiles that weren't deemed a major threat.
Describing the Iron Dome and it's effectiveness, he told Sky News: 'It's really important to understand when we're trying to talk about how effectively the Iron Dome – Israel's defence system works.
'What they do is they track incoming missiles and if they think that the missile is going to land in a place that doesn't matter they just let it go.
'There's no point in using a very expensive air defence missile against something that is going to fall into the middle of the desert.
'The whole of the Iron Dome system is built on a very sophisticated monitoring system and they work out which missiles they need to intercept and which missiles they just let go.
'And so when the Iranians claims 'lots of missiles have landed' some of them probably will have – but some of them will have probably landed in the middle of nowhere and the Israelis will have just let them go.'
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The one's that got through i think they let by all accounts? Imagine what they will be like once their Laser project is up and running?
Although some missiles appeared to breach Israeli defences, Prof Clarke claimed this could have been a deliberate decision by the IDF to 'let go' the missiles that weren't deemed a major threat.
Describing the Iron Dome and it's effectiveness, he told Sky News: 'It's really important to understand when we're trying to talk about how effectively the Iron Dome – Israel's defence system works.
'What they do is they track incoming missiles and if they think that the missile is going to land in a place that doesn't matter they just let it go.
'There's no point in using a very expensive air defence missile against something that is going to fall into the middle of the desert.
'The whole of the Iron Dome system is built on a very sophisticated monitoring system and they work out which missiles they need to intercept and which missiles they just let go.
'And so when the Iranians claims 'lots of missiles have landed' some of them probably will have – but some of them will have probably landed in the middle of nowhere and the Israelis will have just let them go.'
Prof Clarke is either a fool or a propagandist, HB. Iron Dome didn't "allow" anything through and we know this for a fact because the Iron Dome is only designed to intercept slow moving rockets such as the unguided and crude Hamas rockets or Katyushas. It cannot and doesn't intercept hypersonic or ballistic missiles as it isn't capable. Longer range missiles are handled by either the Arrow System or David's Sling. Iron Dome didn't let through the Iranian missiles and any claims otherwise are just lies and cope. Iran have demonstrated Israel vulnerability and there is nothing Israel can do to counter this threat. Nor can the Western sponsors of their Middle East colony.
Check out the info above for yourself, HB, and you will discover that Prof Clarke either doesn't know what he is talking about or a liar. Iron Dome doesn't and can't intercept the hypersonic missiles sent by Iran.
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The one's that got through i think they let by all accounts? Imagine what they will be like once their Laser project is up and running?
The above is a mix of cope and wishful thinking, HB.
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https://x.com/imetatronink/status/1841285332706394371
US destroyers in the region using their ABM's in an attempt to intercept Iranian missiles. And we are to believe that Israel "turned off" the Iron Dome, which isn't relevant in the circumstances anyway. Sky News isn't real news, HB, it is crude propaganda. So crude that they don't even bother to make their lies credible.
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The one's that got through i think they let by all accounts? Imagine what they will be like once their Laser project is up and running?
Although some missiles appeared to breach Israeli defences, Prof Clarke claimed this could have been a deliberate decision by the IDF to 'let go' the missiles that weren't deemed a major threat.
Describing the Iron Dome and it's effectiveness, he told Sky News: 'It's really important to understand when we're trying to talk about how effectively the Iron Dome – Israel's defence system works.
I don't believe Iron Dome played much of a role if any. The kind of missiles Iran used in the latest strike would have been intercepted by David's Sling and Arrow 3.
Iron beam is an interesting development. Similar laser systems are in development that will be mounted to aircraft carriers and F-35s. It's the future of air defence.
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I wonder how many got through in reality.
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Iron beam is an interesting development. Similar laser systems are in development that will be mounted to aircraft carriers and F-35s. It's the future of air defence.
Do you imagine that the not yet developed Iron "Dream" Beam can intercept hypersonic missiles?
"Disadvantages of energy weapons include the requirement for the beam to penetrate the atmosphere; clouds may prevent use. The beam must be held on the target, which may be spinning, for several seconds (the "dwell time") before enough energy is delivered to destroy it. This makes it difficult to stop a barrage of several missiles even if the system is effective, so that volley fire of interceptors continues to be required. There is also the possibility of rockets being sheathed in heat-resistant material to withstand an energy beam for longer.[10] Energy weapons may be more effective against slower-flying drones, with relatively delicate rotors, control flaps, and guidance systems vulnerable to shorter laser attack, than fast rockets. This technology may also prove effective against paratroopers"
The dream beam will remain just a dream.
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I wonder how many got through in reality.
One hangar at the Nevatim airbase was hit. You can see the hole in the roof in the middle right.
https://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2024/10/03/734470/Palestine-Iran-Israel-missile-attack-Nevatim-satellite-images (https://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2024/10/03/734470/Palestine-Iran-Israel-missile-attack-Nevatim-satellite-images)
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I wonder how many got through in reality.
90% got through. Israel nor the western powers have the tech to intercept hypersonics, Roch. There is ample footage of dozens of missiles landing with none intercepted. This attack was a huge step up from the previous attack which used mostly slow drones and subsonic missiles. You may wonder, and ought to, why it was that Iran used only slow drones and subsonic missiles that were almost certain to be mostly shot down in their previous retaliation.
The previous swarm attack forced the Israelis and allies to "show their hand" in terms of Air Defence, or at least a substantial part of the map. Patriot systems in Jordan, RAF jets flying from RAF Akrotiri(Cyprus) and US Navy destroyers as well as locations of AD in Israel. The slow drones and missiles by swarming the defences and eliciting the required response also allowed the few more precise and faster missiles to reach their target as well as mapping Israeli AD. Much the same game is played by NATO with their drone and missile provocations into Russia. It is worth adding, however, that Russia has huge strategic depth and the Zionists don't.
A further part of the strategy of escalations in the attacks demonstrated by Iran is spelt out explicitly and the message is received by those who need to receive it.
First attack- 200 or so projectiles that can be intercepted, with a dozen or so thrown in that can't be intercepted. Result-minimal damage but carrying the implicit and also explicitly spelt out warning that next time it might be 200 or so exclusively non interceptible missiles.
Second attack- 200 or so exclusively non interceptible missiles(who could have seen that) targeting exclusively military targets and avoiding civilian and infrastructure. Result- more extensive damage than previously but none to vital infrastructure but carrying the implicit and again explicitly spelt out warning that next time it could be a magnitude greater(2,000 or so non interceptible missiles aimed at Dimona, Haifa chemical and de-salination plants as well as US military bases in the ME should they intervene.)
The Zionists and their sponsors are reaching the end of the road. Victory isn't counted by how many civilians you slaughter or hospitals you bomb. They are being defeated militarily, economically and diplomatically. The side that celebrates the slaughter of innocents is not the side that is winning.
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Do you imagine that the not yet developed Iron "Dream" Beam can intercept hypersonic missiles?
Yes.
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3256181/flying-naked-chinese-scientists-find-laser-weapons-can-strip-coating-hypersonic-missiles-unexpected (https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3256181/flying-naked-chinese-scientists-find-laser-weapons-can-strip-coating-hypersonic-missiles-unexpected)
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https://x.com/squatsons/status/1841548683566821424
Israel air bases covered by a digital cloud today in order to prevent satellite photos being taken. Iran have done significant damage.
Digital clouds? :)) You really have lost the plot.
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How many of these "Dream Beams" have been tested, David?
You are free to believe that a not yet developed, tested or manufactured system can shoot down hypersonic missiles if you wish. There is less than zero evidence to support this "Dream Beam".
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In April 2022, the Israeli MoD and Rafael announced successful experiments wherein the Iron Beam system effectively shot down drones, rockets, mortar bombs, and anti-tank missiles. Due to concerns about the availability of Iron Dome projectiles to counter attacks, there was a push for earlier deployment of the system. However, Rafael stated in October 2022 that the operational deployment of the 100+kW weapon is expected to take "two to three years."
Read more at:
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/israel-tests-new-cheaper-laser-based-missile-defense-system-amid-hamas-rocket-attacks/articleshow/104495136.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst
You are making claims beyond those claimed by Rafael Systems themselves. And the claims that they make are unevidenced PR. Dream Beam lasers taking down hypersonics is a fantasy that you have just made up.
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In April 2022, the Israeli MoD and Rafael announced successful experiments wherein the Iron Beam system effectively shot down drones, rockets, mortar bombs, and anti-tank missiles. Due to concerns about the availability of Iron Dome projectiles to counter attacks, there was a push for earlier deployment of the system. However, Rafael stated in October 2022 that the operational deployment of the 100+kW weapon is expected to take "two to three years."
Read more at:
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/israel-tests-new-cheaper-laser-based-missile-defense-system-amid-hamas-rocket-attacks/articleshow/104495136.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst
You are making claims beyond those claimed by Rafael Systems themselves. And the claims that they make are unevidenced PR. Dream Beam lasers taking down hypersonics is a fantasy that you have just made up.
That system in particular is not intended for hypersonic missiles. A laser intended for a hypersonic missile will be over 1000kW.
A laser travels at the speed of light (186,000 miles per seconds). They can in theory intercept anything. Its just a question of having enough energy to disintegrate the projectile in time.
Israel already has hypersonic interceptors (Arrow 3) but its an astronomical cost per rocket.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow_3 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow_3)
PS: The one who claimed there are digital clouds to obscure satellite photos, accuses me of having fantasies? :)) If such thing was possible every major military base would have them up all the time 🤡
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That system in particular is not intended for hypersonic missiles. A laser intended for a hypersonic missile will be over 1000kW.
A laser travels at the speed of light (186,000 miles per seconds). They can in theory intercept anything. Its just a question of having enough energy to disintegrate the projectile in time.
Israel already has hypersonic interceptors (Arrow 3) but its an astronomical cost per rocket.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow_3 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow_3)
PS: The one who claimed there are digital clouds to obscure satellite photos, accuses me of having fantasies? :)) If such thing was possible every major military base would have them up all the time 🤡
Whether the photo was altered or not, makes no difference to the fact that Israel are covering up the damage to their base which is obviously substantial. It s also obvious that Israel has no defence to future larger attacks. Whether or not you get the picture, others do.
The West has no defence against hypersonics. Everything that you post confirms this as well as the fact that you are making it up on the hoof. This is evidenced by the fact that you have gone from confirming that you believe that the yet to be developed or manufactured or deployed "Iron Dream Beam" can intercept hypersonics in your post at 3.27- only to now claim that the "Iron Dream Beam"(which doesn't even exist outside of a few drawings and perhaps crude prototypes) isn't designed to intercept hypersonics.
You also add some random figures which you have next to zero understanding of to somehow "boost your case" of hypersonic interceptions. You should have just said, "No" at 3.27 instead of "Yes", because that is basically what you have done. It is amazing how you can say so little and be so spectacularly wrong.
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We'll see what happens: https://youtu.be/KKy0fkFUtfE
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Why do Iran's missiles not have pinpoint accuracy? Is it something to do with satellite technology being owned by other countries?
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I'm surprised Israel are potentially looking at a strike on Iran's oil facilities with the tacit approval of the West. This will undoutedly fuel inflation and I thought inflation was enemy number one not Iran!?
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Why do Iran's missiles not have pinpoint accuracy? Is it something to do with satellite technology being owned by other countries?
According to Gringo Israel can put "Digital Clouds" over it's bases. Maybe that has something to do with it? :))
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According to Gringo Israel can put "Digital Clouds" over it's bases. Maybe that has something to do with it? :))
They can digitally alter satellite photos and they are clearly covering up extensive damage. Your focus on this issue is only to divert from your ill informed nonsense regarding the Iron Dome and its capabilities and the not yet produced "Iron Dream Beam". You contradict yourself within hours. Also the fact that Iran can hit heavily defended Zionist assets easily and within minutes is something that cannot be ignored or wished away, however much you would like to.
Iranian missile accuracy is only disputed by those who take in too much IDF sourced propaganda. If instead of IDF propaganda you choose to believe, "your own lying eyes", then Iranian missile accuracy, penetration and ability to defeat easily Israeli Air Defence is plain to see.
Do you remember Ain Al Assad US base in Iraq? A dozen or so missiles minus warheads(ie. using only kinetic power as a demonstration). Every missile hit a building. That was a demonstration of Iranian accuracy. This time they have also demonstrated that they can easily penetrate even well defended airspace such as the Israeli bases. Information from both bases Nevatim and Tel Nof is censored and clearly more damage was done than is admitted by the Zios. The pretence that Iran missed the targets is laughable and simply Zionist cope. Everyone can see the strikes raining down on the Israeli bases unhindered. Pretending that they let them through cause they weren't hitting anything is fucking hilarious. The Zios are in checkmate. They cannot defend and have no answer to Iranian missiles.
You will find as information and pictures become available that being told by the IDF that all the missiles missed is not necessarily true. More fool anyone who takes the word of the IDF as evidence of anything. Of course the missiles hit where intended and Israel is incapable of intercepting them. Those are the available facts. IDF propaganda doesn't change what everyone can see.
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Iron beam is an interesting development. Similar laser systems are in development that will be mounted to aircraft carriers and F-35s. It's the future of air defence.
Another one of your gems above. Do you still imagine that the Iron Dream Beam mounted to Aircraft Carriers and F35's is the "future of air defence"? I only ask because when you made this statement it was still at least a couple of hours until you realised that it was never intended to intercept anything other than slow moving drones and crude rockets. You believed that the not yet even produced as a prototype Dream Beam was some super laser, intercepting hypersonic and supersonic ballistic missiles.
Empire and their Zionist colony know the score with Iranian missile and AD capabilities. The stories that they spin to cast aspersions on Iran's capabilities are copium for the consumption of people like yourself who prefer comforting lies to uncomfortable truths.
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I'm surprised Israel are potentially looking at a strike on Iran's oil facilities with the tacit approval of the West. This will undoutedly fuel inflation and I thought inflation was enemy number one not Iran!?
It will cause more than inflation, CC. The Iranians will shut off the Hormuz(which transits around 30% of oil consumed in the world). It would be akin to, or worse than, the Great Depression of 1929 according to many and I agree with that assessment. Any Western involvement will lead to all US bases in the region(around 30,000 troops in various bases) being attacked in non-defendable bases. Israel will have no infra-stucture left should they target any Iranian infrastructure. The Zionist state is tiny and heavily reliant on its Air Force. It cannot match the Iranians in missile/rocket tech in quality or quantity. Iran is vast and has a number of population centres and hundreds of power plants. Israel by comparison have few. How will Israel reach all these targets 2,000 or so km away? Planes that will have nowhere to land when they return? if they return? (reports of S400's transferred to Iran). Iran, on the other hand, can send missiles to Israel that take less than 12 minutes from take off to arrival( of which they have probably thousands, as well tens of thousands of non hypersonic missiles.), as already demonstrated. They have effective Iranian developed AD as well as Russian which they demonstrated in their take down of the US AWACS plane in 2019. Iran have yet to reveal all of their hand.
The matter of the accuracy of Iranian missiles is only doubted by idiotic western propaganda masquerading as reportage. Their "knowledge" of Iranian missile accuracy is simply repeating what the IDF told them to say. You should be more sceptical of un-evidenced, dubiously sourced Western media pronouncements, Roch.
What we know so far of Iranian missile and AD tech would suggest that Western media are being economical with the truth(lying! whoda thunk it). There have been a number of very public demonstrations of Iranian missile accuracy and power. Those demonstrations have always carried an important message, deliberately ignored by western so-called media and governments, but well understood nonetheless.Any one of those attacks could be larger by a magnitude or more if Iran chooses. This is understood.
The game's up and all the Western Empire has left is terror and killing civilians, scorched earth policy as a negotiating tool. It is clear to most of the world, outside the censored and propagandised West, that Empire has been defeated militarily. Russia has shown NATO to be a paper tiger. IDF have committed genocide but not defeated Hamas. They have evacuated over 100,000 settlers from the North for months now because of Hezbollah. Despite killing Nasrallah + others and bombing hospitals, medics, children and civilians in Lebanon now as well as Gaza, the Zionist baby murderers are predictably faring less well in their ground incursions into Lebanon where they meet the most battle hardened, well equipped and organised militia in the world.
Empire, in whatever guise, has no effective moves left that don't put them in a worse position. Ground incursion by Israel into Lebanon will end worse than their last attempt in 2006. Western involvement would only make it worse. Hezbollah are much stronger and IDF much weaker since 2006. Bombing Iran infrastructure means goodbye Israel and all US bases/interests in the Middle East and whatever predictable and unpredictable consequences of that may be. A ground invasion of Iran is not even remotely possible(the geography of Iran makes it very defendable- surrounded by mountains). This is what also makes the AnsarAllah in Yemen(Houthis) undefeatable and next to impossible to invade.
Israel attempting to or using nukes would be the end of them.
We are in troubling times and our so-called leaders simply aren't up to the job. There is no statemanship or diplomacy left in the West. All western diplomatic corps are a rabble and an embarrassment to their countries still attempting threats on their former colonies who are throwing off the shackles and turning to Russia, China and the larger BRICS union and multi-polarity.
The Russian SloMo SMO and Iranian and Chinese "strategic patience" in the face of western aggression and provocation has exposed the unmasked face of Empire to the rest of the world. The longer it has gone, the more it has worked against Empire and turned the global south against Empire and towards Russia, China et al. What was portrayed as weakness by western media, was always strategic patience and intended to weaken support for the Empire, as well as bleed them out militarily and economically. It is working a treat.
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https://x.com/IranNuances/status/1842200121208914033
Commander: "Any mistake by #Israel could lead to its destruction. We'll target all of Israel's energy sources i.e. power plants, refineries & gas fields. #Iran has many economic centers but Israel has only 3 power plants & some refineries, all of which we can target all at once."
For those still not getting it. A week ago not many here would have believed the above to be a "credible" threat. Anyone who doesn't believe it now isn't credible themselves. Iran can destroy Israel and anyone paying attention understands that perfectly well.
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I wonder how many got through in reality.
https://x.com/PalestineChron/status/1842287895400382976
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Dr Masoumeh Ebtekar, Former VP of Iran
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masoumeh_Ebtekar
@ 43 mins:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m0023qn9/sunday-with-laura-kuenssberg-06102024
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Dr Masoumeh Ebtekar, Former VP of Iran
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masoumeh_Ebtekar
@ 43 mins:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m0023qn9/sunday-with-laura-kuenssberg-06102024
LK's script is so boring and one-sided. They treat their audience as if everyone is thick and needs the on-message to be hammered home. BBC is racist.
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LK's script is so boring and one-sided. They treat their audience as if everyone is thick and needs the on-message to be hammered home. BBC is racist.
It is also pro Zionist.
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It is also pro Zionist.
Number of Jews in the world is 15.7 million. (World Population Review)
Number of Muslims: 2.1 billion.
You should be ashamed of yourself.
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Number of Jews in the world is 15.7 million. (World Population Review)
Number of Muslims: 2.1 billion.
You should be ashamed of yourself.
Are you able to explain your rationale Steve?
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Are you able to explain your rationale Steve?
From a Jewish perspective they are heavily outnumbered. I've calculated it roughly in my head as 125 Muslims to 1 Jew. Seen from that perspective October 7, when 1195 Jews were killed seems even more devastating. As Osama Bin Laden said: our youths love death as you love life.
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Number of Jews in the world is 15.7 million. (World Population Review)
Number of Muslims: 2.1 billion.
You should be ashamed of yourself.
Why should the number of Jews and the number of Moslems make any difference to anything under discussion here? What have I got to be ashamed of? You are the one actively supporting murder, war crimes, genocide and racial supremacy.
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Why should the number of Jews and the number of Moslems make any difference to anything under discussion here? What have I got to be ashamed of? You are the one actively supporting murder, war crimes, genocide and racial supremacy.
Oh, and you're not tacitly supporting Hamas, Hezbollah, the Houthis and the Iranian Revolutionary Guard?
Pull the other one.
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Ehud Olmert speaks out: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/10/06/only-us-can-destroy-irans-nuclear-programme-says-olmert/
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Oh, and you're not tacitly supporting Hamas, Hezbollah, the Houthis and the Iranian Revolutionary Guard?
Pull the other one.
When have I ever expressed support for any of the organisations you list? You on the other hand support every genocidal action by the evil Zionist regime without reservation.
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It is also pro Zionist.
Being a Zionist fundamentally means you believe in a nation state homeland for the Jewish people.
Just because someone is a Zionist dose not mean they necessarily support the actions of what ever Israeli administration is in place.
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Being a Zionist fundamentally means you believe in a nation state homeland for the Jewish people.
Just because someone is a Zionist dose not mean they necessarily support the actions of what ever Israeli administration is in place.
That is a fair point.
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That is a fair point.
There are many Jews in Israel who support the two state solution, territorial concessions and are against west bank settlements. They are Zionists also.
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There are many Jews in Israel who support the two state solution, territorial concessions and are against west bank settlements. They are Zionists also.
Thanks for explaining that. I didn't know that.
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Thanks for explaining that. I didn't know that.
From this weeks edition of The New Statesman. What is Zionism? Why the State of Israel is central to Jewish identity. By Chief Rabbi Ephraim Mirvis:
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Thanks for explaining that. I didn't know that.
The are very outnumbered by the right at the moment and the actions of Hamas don't make them very popular or appealing.
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There are many Jews in Israel who support the two state solution, territorial concessions and are against west bank settlements. They are Zionists also.
Yes I accept that is true in a literal sense but the term Zionist has seemed to develop into a description of those generally supporting the policies of the government of Israel. Those progressive Jews who support a two state solution and oppose those policies tend to avoid describing themselves as Zionists now, even though they may have done a few years ago.
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Yes I accept that is true in a literal sense but the term Zionist has seemed to develop into a description of those generally supporting the policies of the government of Israel. Those progressive Jews who support a two state solution and oppose those policies tend to avoid describing themselves as Zionists now, even though they may have done a few years ago.
Like everything there is a spectrum. To say every Israeli as an Ultra Zionist, is like saying every Palestinian is a Hamas militant.
In terms of Palestinian Israeli relations. It seems to be down to 10% of the populations on both sides causing 90% of the problems.
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Like everything there is a spectrum. To say every Israeli as an Ultra Zionist, is like saying every Palestinian is a Hamas militant.
In terms of Palestinian Israeli relations. It seems to be down to 10% of the populations on both sides causing 90% of the problems.
. It is way more than 10% on both sides, David. However, one of those sides is occupied and the other side is an occupier. Animosity is to be expected from the Palestinians on account of the fact that they are the occupied, the dis-possessed. Settlers and the state and military institutions that abet them in their dispossession of the Palestinians are in breach of any number of UNSC resolutions and numerous rulings of the ICJ and have no justification. There are no both sides to this.
Palestinians fight for what is morally and legally theirs. Israelis also fight for what morally and legally belongs to the Palestinians.
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. It is way more than 10% on both sides, David. However, one of those sides is occupied and the other side is an occupier. Animosity is to be expected from the Palestinians on account of the fact that they are the occupied, the dis-possessed. Settlers and the state and military institutions that abet them in their dispossession of the Palestinians are in breach of any number of UNSC resolutions and numerous rulings of the ICJ and have no justification. There are no both sides to this.
Palestinians fight for what is morally and legally theirs. Israelis also fight for what morally and legally belongs to the Palestinians.
Over two million Arabs or Palestinian descent live in Israel and are citizens of Israel. Its estimated that 50 to 60 percent of Jordan's population is now of Palestinian descent.
Was Egypt, Iraq, Saudi Arabia and Syria fighting for what was "morally and legally theirs" when they sent troops to invade Israel in 1948? :-\
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. It is way more than 10% on both sides, David. However, one of those sides is occupied and the other side is an occupier. Animosity is to be expected from the Palestinians on account of the fact that they are the occupied, the dis-possessed. Settlers and the state and military institutions that abet them in their dispossession of the Palestinians are in breach of any number of UNSC resolutions and numerous rulings of the ICJ and have no justification. There are no both sides to this.
Palestinians fight for what is morally and legally theirs. Israelis also fight for what morally and legally belongs to the Palestinians.
They have been offered a state of their own numerous times and declined. Why is that gringo and ngb1066?
By Nazenin Ansari
I was born in Iran. But the abhorrent regime ruling my homeland, which sponsors and supports Hezbollah, does not speak or act for me – nor most Iranians.
When the Islamic Republic’s supreme leader, Ali Khamenei, calls Israel a “vampire” and fires hundreds of missiles at the Jewish state, people watching the news thousands of miles away may get the impression – consciously or subconsciously – that most Iranians also support the Lebanese militants, given the decades of violent antisemitism spewing from Tehran.
I myself can only watch from a distance, having fled to the UK long ago and found freedom here as a refugee. I know the only images that most people here ever see of Iranians come from state TV footage of anti-Israeli street protests, perhaps where the Star of David is being burnt.
To think that all of us, or even most of us, feel this way is wrong.
Since the 1979 revolution, the Iranian people have been held captive by a militant cult of Shia Islam. We should never see the regime as representative of them.
It is a theocracy in which all laws are based on a fundamentalist interpretation of this religion. The clergy prosecute and silence dissenters, even in their own circles.
Their barbarity can sometimes be overlooked by people who are angered by Israel’s military actions, first in Gaza and now in Lebanon. When they read that Iran is fighting back, some may instinctively feel that all views on the Middle East are binary, that any enemy of Israel is their friend, and that the regime should be supported.
The truth is, people who feel sympathy for innocent Palestinians being bombed by Israel should feel the same towards innocent Iranians who have suffered or perished under dictatorship.
The regime’s existence is dedicated purely to its survival and spreading the revolution beyond its borders. It is not about the survival of Islam, nor the survival of Shi’ism. It is about the survival of this fundamentalist militant cult.
For those in power in Tehran, that involves trying to impose their extremist form of Islam upon millions more people. That means all women become second-class citizens, and all gay people potentially face the death penalty; peaceful protesters being locked up, shot, or hanged in the streets, a constant fear of being arrested that permeates everyday life.
This is what life is like in Iran. It’s a never-ending nightmare. This is what they want for the rest of the Middle East, while enriching themselves in the process.
We have learned from defectors that some Hezbollah fighters even guard the country’s nuclear facilities, because the regime would rather trust people from their borderless “umma” – roughly their equivalent of a caliphate – than ordinary Iranians.
Hezbollah are the henchmen of bullies, who are against anything that this modern world is based on. I can never celebrate any death, but many Iranians were pleased by the elimination of the group’s leader, Hassan Nasrallah, in an Israeli air strike last month.
The regime in Iran also trains and sponsors Hamas, despite the group being Sunni (this is a marriage of convenience). My heart goes out to the ordinary Palestinians who are being killed in Gaza, but not to the Hamas fighters who dig their tunnels under schools and hospitals and who raped and massacred innocent Israeli civilians on 7 October 2023.
One slogan being used on the streets of Iran is: “Neither for Lebanon nor for Gaza, my life is for Iran.”
Tehran’s support for these groups comes at the expense of the Iranian people. Money should be invested in Iran for better schools, hospitals and infrastructure. Instead, it pays for weapons to be shipped to Gaza, Lebanon, and Yemen, too. While Iranian teachers, nurses, labourers and pensioners face high inflation with meagre salaries, their money is used for a terrorist battle they don’t believe in.
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Interesting article. What's the betting that Israel gets tonnes more air defence equipment and more off shore naval help for intercepting missiles?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/10/09/israel-air-defence-iron-dome-tested-breaking/
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Interesting article. What's the betting that Israel gets tonnes more air defence equipment and more off shore naval help for intercepting missiles?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/10/09/israel-air-defence-iron-dome-tested-breaking/
What have ngb1066 and gringo to say about missile attacks inside Israeli territory? Would they care to comment on Yahya Sinwar? https://www.timesofisrael.com/megalomaniac-sinwar-ordered-renewal-of-suicide-bombings-after-taking-power-report/
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The Man of the Year award goes to...https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=pierre+polievre+iran&sca_esv=ecd6a977a115267d&sxsrf=ADLYWIIJX6ELmRicBXh_1bfeWyB6OoR5iQ%3A1728679116582&ei=zIwJZ7uiI7GqhbIPvO_E8AY&ved=0ahUKEwi7uLLFl4eJAxUxVUEAHbw3EW4Q4dUDCA8&uact=5&oq=pierre+polievre+iran&gs_lp=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&sclient=gws-wiz-serp#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:a059353b,vid:B5ywoTRPDSs,st:0
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The Man of the Year award goes to...https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=pierre+polievre+iran&sca_esv=ecd6a977a115267d&sxsrf=ADLYWIIJX6ELmRicBXh_1bfeWyB6OoR5iQ%3A1728679116582&ei=zIwJZ7uiI7GqhbIPvO_E8AY&ved=0ahUKEwi7uLLFl4eJAxUxVUEAHbw3EW4Q4dUDCA8&uact=5&oq=pierre+polievre+iran&gs_lp=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&sclient=gws-wiz-serp#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:a059353b,vid:B5ywoTRPDSs,st:0
What a complete maniac. People like this are leading us to a third world war, which would be catastrophic for humanity.
I am sure you are ignoring the latest UN report published yesterday, which is damning of Israel's conduct. I am sure you are also quite happy that Israel is now attacking UN peacekeepers.
Is there no depravity of the Israeli government and IDF which you are prepared even to criticize, let alone condemn?
As I have posted before, history will judge and it will not reflect favourable on those you unconditionally support.
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Personally speaking, I believe the war needs to come home to Israel. Not the children of Israel. Not the moderate, rational, innocent civilians of Israel, not the hospitals and schools of Israel. But the IDF, the military infrastructure, the genocidal fruitcakes on the far right and the settler movement, need to be hit hard. Dismantled. Hitting the IDF will no doubt kill the sons and daughters of moderate, innocent Israeli parents - which would be a sad consequence of justice being meted out to Israel.
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What a complete maniac. People like this are leading us to a third world war, which would be catastrophic for humanity.
I am sure you are ignoring the latest UN report published yesterday, which is damning of Israel's conduct. I am sure you are also quite happy that Israel is now attacking UN peacekeepers.
Is there no depravity of the Israeli government and IDF which you are prepared even to criticize, let alone condemn?
As I have posted before, history will judge and it will not reflect favourable on those you unconditionally support.
Anyone still supporting this will have their own conscience to wrestle with shortly, ngb. Many are complicit by their actions. Watch the 4 minutes + of Dr. Tanya Haj-Hassan below-very powerful and moving.
"This is not a humanitarian crisis, Kate, and I'm going to say it very clearly for your viewers to hear: This is genocide [...] Media agencies will have reckon with their major role in the genocide." -- Dr. Tanya Haj-Hassan to CNN
"I am genuinely afraid about what we gonna find out when the dust settles".
https://x.com/OmarBaddar/status/1844759868512637359
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Anyone still supporting this will have their own conscience to wrestle with shortly, ngb. Many are complicit by their actions. Watch the 4 minutes + of Dr. Tanya Haj-Hassan below-very powerful and moving.
"This is not a humanitarian crisis, Kate, and I'm going to say it very clearly for your viewers to hear: This is genocide [...] Media agencies will have reckon with their major role in the genocide." -- Dr. Tanya Haj-Hassan to CNN
"I am genuinely afraid about what we gonna find out when the dust settles".
https://x.com/OmarBaddar/status/1844759868512637359
That is a very powerful interview gringo. The pro Israel bias of the MSM is appalling. Of course Steve will reject it as anti-Semitic propaganda (if he even bothers to watch). This Israeli terror is going from terrible to catastrophic. I do not believe Israel will have any credibility in the future whatever it does. They will reap what they sow in my view and it will not be pretty. The real villains here are the USA (aided and abetted by the UK and others) in arming and supporting Israel and vetoing UN Security Council resolutions repeatedly. If they withdrew their support Israel would not last more than a few weeks or months.
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My stomach churns that it has been allowed to happen and that there is a pretence that it hasn't happened. I believe it is a defining moment in my lifetime.
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My stomach churns that it has been allowed to happen and that there is a pretence that it hasn't happened. I believe it is a defining moment in my lifetime.
That is a very powerful interview gringo. The pro Israel bias of the MSM is appalling. Of course Steve will reject it as anti-Semitic propaganda (if he even bothers to watch). This Israeli terror is going from terrible to catastrophic. I do not believe Israel will have any credibility in the future whatever it does. They will reap what they sow in my view and it will not be pretty. The real villains here are the USA (aided and abetted by the UK and others) in arming and supporting Israel and vetoing UN Security Council resolutions repeatedly. If they withdrew their support Israel would not last more than a few weeks or months.
Agree entirely. The truth of Israel/UK/US depravity is already known and documented. Those who continue to ignore the evidence in front of their eyes will soon have to reckon with the truth.
https://x.com/LoboNaturalista/status/1843830959331827820
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What a complete maniac. People like this are leading us to a third world war, which would be catastrophic for humanity.
I am sure you are ignoring the latest UN report published yesterday, which is damning of Israel's conduct. I am sure you are also quite happy that Israel is now attacking UN peacekeepers.
Is there no depravity of the Israeli government and IDF which you are prepared even to criticize, let alone condemn?
As I have posted before, history will judge and it will not reflect favourable on those you unconditionally support.
There should be a negotiation: Iran stops funding terrorism abroad and the West will leave well alone.
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There should be a negotiation: Iran stops funding terrorism abroad and the West will leave well alone.
Meaningless drivel.
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Meaningless drivel.
My worry is NGB, Trump wanted Israel to hit Iran's nuclear programme and worry about the rest later.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/trump-says-he-thinks-israel-should-hit-iran-nuclear-facilities/
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There should be a negotiation: Iran stops funding terrorism abroad and the West will leave well alone.
What is your estimate of civilian death inflicted by the IDF, Steve(aided and abetted by UK/US targeting, intel, weapons and bombs)? How do you justify the scale of collective punishment meted out to civilian populations?
You, and other apologists of this barbarity, need to wake up. If you watched the interview with Dr. Tanya Haj-Hassan, you should note her fear of what will be uncovered, "once the dust settles". The barbarity currently being witnessed by the world is only the tip of the iceberg. Once the dust does settle, apologists such as yourself, will need to reconcile yourself with what you have supported. What is visible is already sickening to the civilised people of the world. Utterly depraved barbarism. Your wilful blindness to the horrors inflicted by those you support won't age well.
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My worry is NGB, Trump wanted Israel to hit Iran's nuclear programme and worry about the rest later.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/trump-says-he-thinks-israel-should-hit-iran-nuclear-facilities/
I agree HB, this is a great worry. There would be immediate escalation and it is not clear where it would end.
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What is your estimate of civilian death inflicted by the IDF, Steve(aided and abetted by UK/US targeting, intel, weapons and bombs)? How do you justify the scale of collective punishment meted out to civilian populations?
You, and other apologists of this barbarity, need to wake up. If you watched the interview with Dr. Tanya Haj-Hassan, you should note her fear of what will be uncovered, "once the dust settles". The barbarity currently being witnessed by the world is only the tip of the iceberg. Once the dust does settle, apologists such as yourself, will need to reconcile yourself with what you have supported. What is visible is already sickening to the civilised people of the world. Utterly depraved barbarism. Your wilful blindness to the horrors inflicted by those you support won't age well.
I very much doubt if Steve will give you a direct answer to your question gringo. He has backed himself into a corner and has nowhere to go. He cannot bring himself to accept that any criticism of Israel is justified, let alone the outrage and condemnation that most of the world are now expressing. Even the Pope is speaking out and I would have thought that would influence Steve as an admitted High Church Anglican with a leaning towards Rome.
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I very much doubt if Steve will give you a direct answer to your question gringo. He has backed himself into a corner and has nowhere to go. He cannot bring himself to accept that any criticism of Israel is justified, let alone the outrage and condemnation that most of the world are now expressing. Even the Pope is speaking out and I would have thought that would influence Steve as an admitted High Church Anglican with a leaning towards Rome.
Anyone who is only speaking out now is a year too late.
The IDF were supposed have killed all Hamas fighters who didn't make it back inside Gaza. That is where it should have ended. All they had to do next was to negotiate the return of the hostages. They could have clinically taken out Hamas leaders if they had bided their time. I don't see any difference between the IDF and those who conducted reprisals after Reinhardt Heydrich was assassinated.
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I don't see any difference between the IDF and those who conducted reprisals after Reinhardt Heydrich was assassinated.
That is a fair analogy Roch. In fact the IDF have murdered far more in Gaza than those murdered by the Nazis at Lidice in 1942.
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Looks like I was right
https://www.cnn.com/2024/10/13/politics/israel-iran-antimissile-system-us-troops/index.html
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That is a fair analogy Roch. In fact the IDF have murdered far more in Gaza than those murdered by the Nazis at Lidice in 1942.
They make the Bosnian Serbs look like angels ngb.
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They make the Bosnian Serbs look like angels ngb.
Yes, and the ICC is not meant to have jurisdiction solely over those of whom the USA and the UK disapprove. The hypocrisy is dreadful. Netanyahu and his evil gang should be in the Hague.
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What a complete maniac. People like this are leading us to a third world war, which would be catastrophic for humanity.
I am sure you are ignoring the latest UN report published yesterday, which is damning of Israel's conduct. I am sure you are also quite happy that Israel is now attacking UN peacekeepers.
Is there no depravity of the Israeli government and IDF which you are prepared even to criticize, let alone condemn?
As I have posted before, history will judge and it will not reflect favourable on those you unconditionally support.
Listen and learn: https://youtu.be/ZEbXZz6RveQ
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Personally speaking, I believe the war needs to come home to Israel. Not the children of Israel. Not the moderate, rational, innocent civilians of Israel, not the hospitals and schools of Israel. But the IDF, the military infrastructure, the genocidal fruitcakes on the far right and the settler movement, need to be hit hard. Dismantled. Hitting the IDF will no doubt kill the sons and daughters of moderate, innocent Israeli parents - which would be a sad consequence of justice being meted out to Israel.
Is it 60,000 who have been evacuated from northern Israel due to Hezbollah rockets? Israel has been at war since 1948.
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What is your estimate of civilian death inflicted by the IDF, Steve(aided and abetted by UK/US targeting, intel, weapons and bombs)? How do you justify the scale of collective punishment meted out to civilian populations?
You, and other apologists of this barbarity, need to wake up. If you watched the interview with Dr. Tanya Haj-Hassan, you should note her fear of what will be uncovered, "once the dust settles". The barbarity currently being witnessed by the world is only the tip of the iceberg. Once the dust does settle, apologists such as yourself, will need to reconcile yourself with what you have supported. What is visible is already sickening to the civilised people of the world. Utterly depraved barbarism. Your wilful blindness to the horrors inflicted by those you support won't age well.
It's justified because Israel handed back Gaza in 2005. They could have made it a paradise with a Mediterranean coastline, a tourist attraction. Instead they built tunnels, the sole purpose of which was to destroy the Jewish state. Are you going to come to the rescue gringo, or are all 7 million Jews to be massacred? Do tell.
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I very much doubt if Steve will give you a direct answer to your question gringo. He has backed himself into a corner and has nowhere to go. He cannot bring himself to accept that any criticism of Israel is justified, let alone the outrage and condemnation that most of the world are now expressing. Even the Pope is speaking out and I would have thought that would influence Steve as an admitted High Church Anglican with a leaning towards Rome.
Not at all. I have answered directly, as I always do.
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Listen and learn: https://youtu.be/ZEbXZz6RveQ
I listened to this typical Zionist spin and learned nothing new.
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I listened to this typical Zionist spin and learned nothing new.
Maybe this will refresh your memory: https://youtu.be/PzSSlHXqTEI
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Listen and learn: https://youtu.be/ZEbXZz6RveQ
So what to you think about the Pope’s recent comments on Israel's conduct in Gaza and Lebanon? I suppose he is an apologist for Hamas.
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So what to you think about the Pope’s recent comments on Israel's conduct in Gaza and Lebanon? I suppose he is an apologist for Hamas.
The Pope is entitled to his views. I might inform him and you that Jews will never again be shoved into gas chambers in their millions without ever having fired a shot.
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It's justified because Israel handed back Gaza in 2005. They could have made it a paradise with a Mediterranean coastline, a tourist attraction. Instead they built tunnels, the sole purpose of which was to destroy the Jewish state. Are you going to come to the rescue gringo, or are all 7 million Jews to be massacred? Do tell.
Unhinged
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The Pope is entitled to his views. I might inform him and you that Jews will never again be shoved into gas chambers in their millions without ever having fired a shot.
I am sure the Pope would be very impressed with your new information Steve, as I am. This is a real revelation.
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I don't see any difference between the IDF and those who conducted reprisals after Reinhardt Heydrich was assassinated.
An operation that killed 1.4 million people?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Reinhard (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Reinhard)
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So what to you think about the Pope’s recent comments on Israel's conduct in Gaza and Lebanon? I suppose he is an apologist for Hamas.
The pope is a living relic, living in an ivory tower that is fraught with controversy. His establishment is redundant in the grand scheme of things.
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An operation that killed 1.4 million people?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Reinhard (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Reinhard)
That is not what Roch was referring to, as I am sure you know. The reprisals after the assassination of Reinhard Heydrich were mainly against the population of the village of Lidice. Israel's reprisals against the entire civilian population of Gaza are many times worse.
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The pope is a living relic, living in an ivory tower that is fraught with controversy. His establishment is redundant in the grand scheme of things.
I am not a fan of the Roman Catholic church, for many reasons. However, I referred to the Pope's statements on Israel and Gaza because I know Steve to be an admirer.
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Sounds like Steve would have given succor to the gun powder plotters (terrorists).
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Sounds like Steve would have given succor to the gun powder plotters (terrorists).
But they were Roman Catholic terrorists so that must be OK, just as Zionist terrorists are OK as far as Steve is concerned.
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I am not a fan of the Roman Catholic church, for many reasons. However, I referred to the Pope's statements on Israel and Gaza because I know Steve to be an admirer.
The Pope calling for peace requires both sides to listen to him and take his advice.
After Iran's first missile strike on Israel. The Pope said -
“stop every action that could stoke the spiral of violence and risk dragging the Middle East into a much bigger war conflict.”
Recently Ayatolla Khamenei held a sermon with a rifle in his hand praising the October 8th massacre.
Neither parties seem to be taking note.
As for Steve being and admirer of the Pope. I wonder if Steve venerates Simon of Trent? :))
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_of_Trent (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_of_Trent)
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I'm not going to dignify some of the above posts with a response. Relax with this: https://youtu.be/3aPDpfQ7V3Q
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What have ngb1066 and gringo to say about missile attacks inside Israeli territory? Would they care to comment on Yahya Sinwar? https://www.timesofisrael.com/megalomaniac-sinwar-ordered-renewal-of-suicide-bombings-after-taking-power-report/
It looks like Yahya Sinwar has been killed: https://youtu.be/zrb829-XZas
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Hezbollah strike Netanyahu's holiday home: https://youtu.be/H-TISoapm78
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Israel strikes Iran: https://youtu.be/28DRZmOkgDs
It was just after 2.15am when Iranians woke to the sounds of explosions and the first plumes of smoke began to rise near the capital.
After weeks of speculation, leaks and fierce battles against Iran’s proxies on its borders, Israel finally launched its retaliation against Tehran’s missile barrage last month.
Codenamed “Days of Repentance”, Israel declared “mission completed” within four hours of the first strike, after bombing military targets across the Islamic Republic and triggering panic in Iranian cities by the time fighter jets returned home.
Benjamin Netanyahu, the prime minister of Israel, had promised Iran “would pay for it” after launching a barrage of 180 missiles and drones which rained down on Jerusalem and Tel Aviv on Oct 1.
In the early hours of Saturday morning, he sat in a war room wearing a black puffer jacket and blue shirt as the order was given to fire the first missiles towards Tehran, southern Khuzestan and western Ilam provinces.
Flanking him were Yoav Gallant, the defence minister, and generals at the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) headquarters in Kirya, Tel Aviv, as fighter jets targeted the factories and storage facilities used to make the weapons launched 1,500km in the other direction three weeks ago.
At one point, Major General Herzi Halevi, commanding the mission, was seen looking tense, as General Tomer Bar, the Air Force commander, gave instructions on a military phone, as the first wave against Iranian air defences had been completed.
As the first of the missiles fired by supersonic F-35 stealth fighters struck, Iran tried to play down the impact of the attack as videos emerged showing an apocalyptic Tehran skyline.
US and Israeli officials claim that three waves of strikes took place, first targeting the country’s air defence systems.
The screech of ballistic missiles descending towards the ground before crashing into their targets was followed by orange flashes in the sky and a firework-like sound, as Iran attempted to shoot down incoming rockets with what was left of its air defence system.
Dozens of Israeli fighter jets, supported by refuellers and spy planes, then returned with two more waves targeting the bases and factories of drones and missiles which could be used in a repeat of Iran’s last attack against Israel.
In Khuzestan, the grey cloudy skies were lit up as missiles exploded at Dezful Military Airport and a nearby surface-to-air missile site.
Smoke was seen rising from an Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) airbase near the town of Khojir, while scrambled Iranian aircraft which were reportedly heard over Tehran made no impact.
In desperation, some Iranian forces resorted to primitive measures, attempting in vain to use anti-aircraft guns to target long-range missiles.
Explosions were also reported at Isfahan, home to a military base and a missile production factory, as well as Mashhad, where an Iranian airfield is located.
While the Iranian military command urged citizens to maintain “unity and calm” during the crisis, drivers were queuing for fuel before sunrise.
Long after the last Israeli planes had returned home, Iranian airspace was still closed until 9.00am.
In what it had told allies was preventing further escalation, Israel appeared to have stopped short of hitting nuclear facilities and oil refineries which would have devastated Iran, instead focusing on thwarting “immediate threats to the State of Israel”.
Israel is said to have been ready to attack for days, despite some details of the planning being leaked from the US.
According to some reports, they waited until this morning because of the weather.
But in a move perhaps intended to give Tehran an off-ramp, Tel Aviv had told Iran “what they are going to attack in general and what they are not going to attack”, according to the US website Axios.
Iran’s national air defence headquarters initially said that its “integrated air defence system successfully intercepted and countered this aggressive action”.
But it then confirmed hits on “military centres” in Tehran, southern Khuzestan, and western Ilam provinces.
The headquarters described the Israeli operation as “criminal and illegal”, adding: “Despite previous warnings… to refrain from any adventurous actions, this illegitimate regime carried out a provocative attack early this morning.”
Whether the tit for tat continues between the two states, who do not share a border, now lies with Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, the Iranian supreme leader, and how the country will respond.
Sources told Tasnim, the IRGC-affiliated news agency, that “Iran is prepared to respond to any act of aggression by Israel” but as Tel Aviv and Jerusalem woke up to the news of the strike, Israel issued a further warning to Tehran.
Lt Col Daniel Hagari, an IDF spokesman, said: “If the regime in Iran makes the mistake and starts a new round of escalation – we will be obliged to respond.
“Our message is clear: anyone who threatens the State of Israel and strives to drag the region into a wider escalation will pay a heavy price.”
Efforts to project normalcy
State television in Iran started a coordinated effort early Saturday to project normalcy across the country following the Israeli strikes, with channels airing live scenes from various cities to demonstrate business as usual.
But the display of calm was repeatedly interrupted by pundits demanding a forceful response.
“They have officially directly attacked Iran and it should have an appropriate response to make it balance,” one analyst said on state television.
Iran also threatened its citizens with lengthy prison sentences for sharing footage of overnight Israeli strikes in a possible attempt to cover up any major damage and offer a way to de-escalate quietly.
The IDF’s focus for now will return to its year-long war in Gaza against Iran-backed Hamas and the battle against Hezbollah in Lebanon following the recent ground invasion.
Already on Saturday morning, Hezbollah has continued its daily rocket fire over the Lebanon border and drone launches towards villages and towns in the north.
Now Israelis will face a wait to see if the sirens will also sound for a direct attack by the terror group’s backer of Iran.
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Everyone who matters understands the price of attacking Iran is way too high. You either don’t or choose not to but there will be no direct attack on Iran.
Israel couldn’t strike Iranian launch sites. How will they do this? You do know the distance between Iran and Israel, I take it. Iran’s sites are buried underground and in mountains. Israel have no ground based missile capability that could reach Iran, never mind take out their launch sites. Israeli planes can’t reach Iran without refuelling, airspace closed off to them.
🤡 🤡
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This is probably the first time F-35s have been used in a strike mission
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_2024_Israeli_strikes_on_Iran (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_2024_Israeli_strikes_on_Iran)
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David and Steve still cheering on the soon to be doomed genocidal Zionists is a surprise to no-one. The Zionist attack on Iran was a failure on every level despite Zionist claims, amplified without question by Western media. No Israeli planes entered Iran-where is the evidence? where is the footage of the destruction?, of missiles hitting? There was ample footage of Iranian missiles raining down on Nevatim airbase. Israel and their western sponsors are international pariahs and there is no going back to the previous "status quo". The more children, medics, aid workers that they massacre only emphasises their ultimate defeat. The impotence against Iran in stark contrast to their blind, genocidal rage when confronted only by civilians.
What did you think of the bombing of the Al Aqsa hospital recently, where the Zionist bombed the tents outside of the hospital? They were using tents because the hospital, along with every other hospital and medical centre in Gaza had already been bombed by the IDF. There is real evidence of this and video of people being burned to death whilst in hospital beds hooked up to IV drips;
https://x.com/sophiehurwitz/status/1845655115203592304
Both of you are willing to believe any claim made by a media simply repeating Israeli media, which is admittedly controlled by military censorship, with no supporting evidence but ignore the most horrific war crimes committed in open view by the maniacs that you cheer on. You are neither serious nor honest contributors to the discussions here. You are cheerleaders for genociders.
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"The old world is dying, and the new world struggles to be born: now is the time of monsters",
Antonio Gramsci's famous observation during the uneasy period between WW1 and WW2. As Mark Twain observed, "history often rhymes". To be clear to our resident Genocide supporting regulars. The old world that is currently dying is the US/UK western dominated financial and trade system of the old Western powers. The New World struggling to be born is the BRICS+ backed system by-passing dollar reserve status and using alternative systems for international transactions.
The trajectory, however, is clear to all objective observers. The old world is dying. A new world is being born. This is unstoppable. The monsters are those who, in their desperation to prevent the inevitable and to cover their crimes, are willing to commit and justify any atrocity. The whole world is bearing witness to US/UK/Israel crimes. It matters not one jot how many westerners close their eyes or are willingly duped to the truth of the crimes being committed in their name. It doesn't change the ultimate trajectory of the demise of Western hegemony.
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No Israeli planes entered Iran-where is the evidence? where is the footage of the destruction?, of missiles hitting? There was ample footage of Iranian missiles raining down on Nevatim airbase.
Plenty of satellite photos showing the damage.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy7dkgz71x6o (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy7dkgz71x6o)
Nevatim is in relatively close proximity to civilian buildings. Iran is vast and there wont be any bystanders waiting with their phones to film it.
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When it comes to precision, satellite intelligence and air defences, Iran cannot match Israel. If Iran unleash a higher number of rockets, they're not precision enough to guarantee destruction of Israel's military facilities. While I'm sure Israel don't want their air defences to be overwhelmed, they could strike back much worse on Iran than they have just done.
https://www.twz.com/news-features/israeli-strikes-knocked-out-all-of-irans-s-300-air-defense-systems-officials
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When it comes to precision, satellite intelligence and air defences, Iran cannot match Israel. If Iran unleash a higher number of rockets, they're not precision enough to guarantee destruction of Israel's military facilities. While I'm sure Israel don't want their air defences to be overwhelmed, they could strike back much worse on Iran than they have just done.
https://www.twz.com/news-features/israeli-strikes-knocked-out-all-of-irans-s-300-air-defense-systems-officials
Also the Iranian rockets are not DIY style unguided cheapjack that Hamas use. They are expensive high end tech, and its not feasible financially to keep striking with 95% of them getting intercepted.
Ideally you will need to use air to surface missiles, launched from modern fighter jets whereby the pilots skill can circumvent and or nullify the enemy defences.
I expect the recent developments will prompt Iran to modernise it air-force a lot quicker.
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Both of you are willing to believe any claim made by a media simply repeating Israeli media, which is admittedly controlled by military censorship, with no supporting evidence but ignore the most horrific war crimes committed in open view by the maniacs that you cheer on. You are neither serious nor honest contributors to the discussions here. You are cheerleaders for genociders.
Says the apologist who applauds an act of aggression that is nearing 500,000 casualties on both sides. Who's hero has recently signed another degree conscripting another 130,000 young Russian men to the meat grinder. Who's actions and policies are so destructive only North Korea is prepared to be a willing participant. What an astounding projecting.
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When it comes to precision, satellite intelligence and air defences, Iran cannot match Israel. If Iran unleash a higher number of rockets, they're not precision enough to guarantee destruction of Israel's military facilities. While I'm sure Israel don't want their air defences to be overwhelmed, they could strike back much worse on Iran than they have just done.
https://www.twz.com/news-features/israeli-strikes-knocked-out-all-of-irans-s-300-air-defense-systems-officials
When it comes to precision, satellite intelligence and air defences, Iran cannot match Israel. If Iran unleash a higher number of rockets, they're not precision enough to guarantee destruction of Israel's military facilities. While I'm sure Israel don't want their air defences to be overwhelmed, they could strike back much worse on Iran than they have just done.
https://www.twz.com/news-features/israeli-strikes-knocked-out-all-of-irans-s-300-air-defense-systems-officials
https://x.com/IRIran_Military/status/1843860269455552613
Here are dozens of missiles striking Nevatim Airbase (one of the most defended places on Earth). completely unopposed. We are told that nothing was damaged, or very little. Have we been shown the craters from these dozens of strikes? Surely if they hit nothing it would be in the Israelis interests to show us the impacts. On the other hand a bloke in TMZ quotes an anonymous source telling us that all of Irans S300's have been taken out. (Source-"Trust me bro").
I suspect that your belief in the imprecision of Iranian missiles will be severely challenged by events shortly, Roch. Israel are desperate to drag in the US/NATO. They understand very well that Iran are way more powerful than Israel.
You also appear to have memory holed the very precise attack on the illegal US base (Al Asad) in Iraq. Iran's missiles all struck buildings on a base with much empty space. There is no doubt that Iranian missile tech is more advanced than Israel.
Alastair Crooke's view on the Israeli damp squib attack on Iran;
https://x.com/SilenceBorne/status/1850938607080726705
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https://x.com/IRIran_Military/status/1843860269455552613
Here are dozens of missiles striking Nevatim Airbase (one of the most defended places on Earth). completely unopposed. We are told that nothing was damaged, or very little. Have we been shown the craters from these dozens of strikes? Surely if they hit nothing it would be in the Israelis interests to show us the impacts. On the other hand a bloke in TMZ quotes an anonymous source telling us that all of Irans S300's have been taken out. (Source-"Trust me bro").
What you are seeing is burning missile debris falling down after being intercepted. Ballistic missiles do not light up the sky and fall at the speed of rain.
Any Fattah-1 or Fattah-2 that struck their targets will not been seen approaching. You will just see an explosion without warning. A bit like in the footage below. You might hear it go past you but that's about it.
https://youtu.be/m8KimNtB9HI?feature=shared (https://youtu.be/m8KimNtB9HI?feature=shared)
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What you are seeing is burning missile debris falling down after being intercepted. Ballistic missiles do not light up the sky and fall at the speed of rain.
Any Fattah-1 or Fattah-2 that struck their targets will not been seen approaching. You will just see an explosion without warning. A bit like in the footage below. You might hear it go past you but that's about it.
https://youtu.be/m8KimNtB9HI?feature=shared (https://youtu.be/m8KimNtB9HI?feature=shared)
"The fast moving firey dot is the RV(re-entry vehicle). It glows because of the same reason a bicycle pump gets hot, compressed air. The RV is moving ao fast, air doesn't have time to move aside, so it gets compressed.
There are other slower pieces which fall, those are the rocket motor and possibly pen aids.
Despite some rather hopeful claims on CNN, one thing you aren't seeing at intercepts...BM RV interceptions take place at far too high altitudes for cellphone camera to record, unlike rocket ones.
Basically if yoy are seeing an RV on cellphone camera, its penetrated the defences and is about to hit."
Missile debris :-[ It was missiles hitting their targets, David. You should note Alastair Crooke's appraisal of events. The available facts support the version of events given by Crooke. Hundreds of planes but minimal damage. Boosters were found in Iraq supporting the claims that no planes entered Iranian airspace. They daren't because as soon as they do they would be shot down. Israel/NATO were all in on this attack and its utter failure is plain to see.
There is a next round coming. We will see what the Iranian response is. If NATO/Israel are telling the truth (I know ::)) then Iran will be unable to respond. How would they dare to given that, according to NATO/Israel their air defence is now "naked".
Time will tell.
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David and Steve still cheering on the soon to be doomed genocidal Zionists is a surprise to no-one. The Zionist attack on Iran was a failure on every level despite Zionist claims, amplified without question by Western media. No Israeli planes entered Iran-where is the evidence? where is the footage of the destruction?, of missiles hitting? There was ample footage of Iranian missiles raining down on Nevatim airbase. Israel and their western sponsors are international pariahs and there is no going back to the previous "status quo". The more children, medics, aid workers that they massacre only emphasises their ultimate defeat. The impotence against Iran in stark contrast to their blind, genocidal rage when confronted only by civilians.
What did you think of the bombing of the Al Aqsa hospital recently, where the Zionist bombed the tents outside of the hospital? They were using tents because the hospital, along with every other hospital and medical centre in Gaza had already been bombed by the IDF. There is real evidence of this and video of people being burned to death whilst in hospital beds hooked up to IV drips;
https://x.com/sophiehurwitz/status/1845655115203592304
Both of you are willing to believe any claim made by a media simply repeating Israeli media, which is admittedly controlled by military censorship, with no supporting evidence but ignore the most horrific war crimes committed in open view by the maniacs that you cheer on. You are neither serious nor honest contributors to the discussions here. You are cheerleaders for genociders.
I would have thought the Iranian Revolutionary Guards would be the ones quaking in their shoes, especially if Trump is elected.
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https://x.com/IRIran_Military/status/1843860269455552613
Here are dozens of missiles striking Nevatim Airbase (one of the most defended places on Earth). completely unopposed. We are told that nothing was damaged, or very little. Have we been shown the craters from these dozens of strikes? Surely if they hit nothing it would be in the Israelis interests to show us the impacts. On the other hand a bloke in TMZ quotes an anonymous source telling us that all of Irans S300's have been taken out. (Source-"Trust me bro").
I suspect that your belief in the imprecision of Iranian missiles will be severely challenged by events shortly, Roch. Israel are desperate to drag in the US/NATO. They understand very well that Iran are way more powerful than Israel.
You also appear to have memory holed the very precise attack on the illegal US base (Al Asad) in Iraq. Iran's missiles all struck buildings on a base with much empty space. There is no doubt that Iranian missile tech is more advanced than Israel.
Alastair Crooke's view on the Israeli damp squib attack on Iran;
https://x.com/SilenceBorne/status/1850938607080726705
Hello Gringo. Do you think the images provided for the Israeli strike on Iran are not right? It's just they they do look very accurate in terms of aiming.
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Hello Gringo. Do you think the images provided for the Israeli strike on Iran are not right? It's just they they do look very accurate in terms of aiming.
Hi Roch. Which images are you referring to. The handful of satellite pics on the BBC story are not very informative. They certainly don't match the wild claims made by Israel. There are many clearer versions of those pics on X/Twitter which show, at best, minimal damage. The available evidence appears to show the intent of a large scale attack with very little damage to show for it. Many grandiose claims of destroying Iranian air defence but no evidence apart from that favourite of western media, "an anonymous source" and a few pictures of unknown buildings etc.
Crooke and other commentators are in my view nearer to the truth of what occurred. It certainly fits with the known and agreed evidence. Over 100 planes in the "first wave" of what was announced by the Isrealis themselves as a "three wave" attack. The first wave was what is referred to as SEAD mission (Suppression and destruction of Enemy Air Defence). This obviously then opens the airspace for the next wave of missiles/air attacks.
This is the problem with the Israeli narrative repeated in the western media. The second and third wave of this announced attack was to destroy those targets previously defended by the air defence that Israel claims to have destroyed in the first wave. Over 100 planes plus all the refuelling planes in the air also at that time. But no planes entered Iranian air space. Nothing of note was hit or we would have been told about it and the evidence would be clear. Instead we are told that Iran's air defence is destroyed and this is "supported" by a handful of sat pics of who knows what.
Crooke and others claim that the Israeli planes were "painted" whilst over Iraq by an unknown air defence system. They launched what they had, mostly shot down as shown in footage posted earlier, turned back and waves 2 and 3 never happened. This scenario much better fits the known and agreed facts. It was certainly intended as a large operation by Israel. The number of planes and co-ordination of US and others, the announcement of a three wave attack all give credence to this scenario. But there were no further waves and nothing much happened, in truth.
We are also to believe that Iran's ability to launch a missile attack has been neutralised by the Israeli damp squib attack on Iran. Time will tell, Roch, whether the Israeli raid was a success, as claimed by the IDF, or a pathetically ineffective shooting of their wad, as claimed by more sober and less partisan analysts. Iran's response will establish one way or the other. I expect that Iran's response will prove definitively that Iran's ability to launch accurate missiles at important targets is undiminished. It will turn out, in a surprise to no-one, that Zionist occupiers are lying.
The "unknown air defence system" could be Russian or Iranian developed. Iranians have excellent missile and air defence tech, all home developed, because they have been under western sanctions for years. Western sanctions appear to be the healthiest boost an economy can have, in the long term. Israel can produce very little themselves and need their western sugar daddies. I doubt that even with all that help they will be able to prevent Iran's inevitable retaliation from causing significant and undeniable damage.
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Hello Gringo. Do you think the images provided for the Israeli strike on Iran are not right? It's just they they do look very accurate in terms of aiming.
The video of the dozens of Iranian missiles striking Nevatim seem better evidence of air defences having been taken out than the, "trust me bro" claims and unclear satellite pics of who knows where given by the Israelis, Roch. Also worth noting is the censorship of any footage of damage from Nevatim air base. Again, if the Israelis are to be believed (spoiler alert-they're not), then they would show us 30 odd craters in the ground. This is how many confirmed missile hits were filmed. They show us instead, one crater which they claim is the entire damage from the the more than thirty that were filmed hitting the base. Israeli claims are not credible and are easily debunked from available open source material.
Israel are desperate to drag US into war because they know full well that Iran is way too strong for them to handle. The problem is that the US miltary also understands that any attempt to subjugate/invade Iran would exact a huge cost militarily on the US and would by no means be guaranteed to be successful. Iran have made clear and demonstrated that no US base in the entire Middle East would be spared in the event of an attack on Iran. This would also guarantee the demise of the Zionist project in Palestine. Without the US in the Middle East, Israel couldn't last five minutes. US attacking Iran would have the certain end result of no US bases in the Middle East and the end of Israel.
The impotence of Israel and their sponsors against militarily strong enemies explains their blind rage atrocities against defenceless civilians. It is all they have. Blackmail and terror.
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An example of what we are led to believe by western governments and media is imprecise Iranian missiles;
https://x.com/sarwar_abedi/status/1852817133274591663
The damage at Tel Nof air base looks precise to me. Tel Nof was targeted on a much smaller scale than Nevatim. It is a reasonable inference that the lack of pics from Nevatim air base is because the over 30 missiles that struck and were filmed doing so, have caused substantially more damage than the one crater shown by Israel.
For those paying attention, there is every reason to suspect that the inevitable and imminent response from Iran to Israel's latest aggression will be much larger than their previous response. Iran carefully calibrate their responses as a brief perusal of their actions over the last few years demonstrates.
When the US assassinated General Qasem Soleimani, the Iranian response was measured and effective. They informed the US, through third parties, that they were going to strike the US Al Asad base and a second base in Erbil, Iraq. They did so with a dozen or so missiles, none of which were armed with warheads. Using only the kinetic power of the missiles. The Iranians hit a number of buildings on the sprawling site accurately. The US service personnel were reduced to cowering in shelters until the raid was over.
Trump promised a response like nothing ever seen if Iran harmed even a hair on any US personnel. After first claiming no injuries, this soon began to climb. Within a few days over 20 personnel were admitted to have suffered injuries. Then within a few more days over 40 until eventually over 100 US personnel definitely had "had so much as a hair on their head harmed". US reponse- nothing.
This is down to the Iranian response. Iran warned that any further aggression against them would be met with a response a magnitude greater. The US understood that Iran could hit every US base in the Middle East and that next time the missiles would be armed. Iran demonstrated some of their power and deterrence was created and understood. There was no second round because the US understood that Iran could cause them huge losses and the US were unable to defend against this.
Fast forward to the present and we see Iran employing the same strategy. The Zios and their enablers are either unable or unwilling to face the reality of their defeat.
Round 1 was the murder of Haniyeh in Tehran and the attacking of Iranian consulate in Syria by Israel. Iran responded with "Operation True Promise". This response was mocked in western media by midwits who, either wilfully or through ignorance, failed to understand what happened in any strategic sense. Iran deliberately sent old slow cheap drones and missiles that took hours to reach their targets. Just behind these they also sent a dozen or so fast and accurate missiles to Nevatim air base plus a couple of other intelligence bases. This attack had a twofold purpose. Firstly they exposed Israel's air defences as well as the western nations using their planes and bases to intercept on Israel's behalf. Secondly those missiles that were meant to and did hit Israeli assets were a warning of what could happen next time.
The Israelis failed to heed those warnings and carried out a number of high profile assassinations. Iran launched "True Promise 2". This time with Israeli AD mapped from the previous attack, Iran launched 200 missiles, many hypersonic and hit Nevatim much more severely. Iran claimed 90% hit. It is certain that many more than Israel admit to, did strike because there is ample footage of dozens of missiles hitting with just the odd interception. Again the Iranian response a measured blend of deterrence and threat. Next time it may be a magnitude worse. From True Promise 1 to 2 there was an escalation by Iran of one magnitude+. A dozen or so missiles intended to hit their target to perhaps 120 or more. As the US did, the Israelis should have claimed victory and walked away after round 1. Instead they went for round 2, which as promised by Iran, was much greater. Israeli denials are laughable. We've seen the footage.
Anyway now here we are at round 3. Israel launching their damp squib but planned to be massive attack on Iran. That this was meant to be a large and destructive attack is evidenced by the number of military assets employed for the attack. It was, however, a failure and it is clear that Iranian Air Defence had the measure of this attack. We now await "True Promise 3". A magnitude greater than 120 to 180 is 1,200 or 1,800. Israel won't be able to deny and censor their way out of Iran's response this time.
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"Iran is planning a strong and complex response to Israel involving even more powerful warheads and other weapons, @WSJ reported citing Iranian and Arab officials briefed on the plans. Iran has told Arab diplomats that its conventional army would be involved because it had lost four soldiers and a civilian in Israel’s attack, the Iranian and Arab officials said."
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"Iran is planning a strong and complex response to Israel involving even more powerful warheads and other weapons, @WSJ reported citing Iranian and Arab officials briefed on the plans. Iran has told Arab diplomats that its conventional army would be involved because it had lost four soldiers and a civilian in Israel’s attack, the Iranian and Arab officials said."
It may be the only language Israel understands. Sooner or later, war has to come home to Israel, is it did to Serbia and Germany.
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It may be the only language Israel understands. Sooner or later, war has to come home to Israel, is it did to Serbia and Germany.
I suspect the Iranian leadership may be trying to distract its population.
"On November 3, protests erupted in various cities across Iran as retirees, workers, and healthcare professionals took to the streets demanding better living conditions, higher wages, and improved services amid
escalating economic hardships."
https://www.ncr-iran.org/en/news/iran-protests/iran-protests-november-3-2024-widespread-demonstrations-amid-economic-challenges/ (https://www.ncr-iran.org/en/news/iran-protests/iran-protests-november-3-2024-widespread-demonstrations-amid-economic-challenges/)
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I suspect the Iranian leadership may be trying to distract its population.
"On November 3, protests erupted in various cities across Iran as retirees, workers, and healthcare professionals took to the streets demanding better living conditions, higher wages, and improved services amid
escalating economic hardships."
https://www.ncr-iran.org/en/news/iran-protests/iran-protests-november-3-2024-widespread-demonstrations-amid-economic-challenges/ (https://www.ncr-iran.org/en/news/iran-protests/iran-protests-november-3-2024-widespread-demonstrations-amid-economic-challenges/)
Eventually the younger generation will make them irrelevant.
https://news.sky.com/story/amnesty-demands-release-of-woman-violently-arrested-after-stripping-off-to-protest-strict-islamic-dress-code-reports-say-13248081?dicbo=v2-NMwwlXt
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"Iran is planning a strong and complex response to Israel involving even more powerful warheads and other weapons, @WSJ reported citing Iranian and Arab officials briefed on the plans. Iran has told Arab diplomats that its conventional army would be involved because it had lost four soldiers and a civilian in Israel’s attack, the Iranian and Arab officials said."
I've heard an arsenal of nukes are winging their way to Iran courtesy of the Russkies. Think melted dome.
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The young woman stripped down to her underwear was having a mental breakdown not “protesting the oppressive regime”. Western media is disgusting and those who repeat and amplify their lies and misrepresentations are complicit.Even Sky News are careful enough to issue caveats and clearly understand already that the young woman was having a mental breakdown. That they and others have taken advantage of the woman’s distress in order to propagandise against Iran tells all you need to know about Western media. It is self evident from the footage that it is a mental breakdown and not a protest. But still they splash a mentally ill woman’s picture around the world for cheap tawdry propaganda without a care for the woman in question.
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The young woman stripped down to her underwear was having a mental breakdown not “protesting the oppressive regime”. Western media is disgusting and those who repeat and amplify their lies and misrepresentations are complicit.Even Sky News are careful enough to issue caveats and clearly understand already that the young woman was having a mental breakdown. That they and others have taken advantage of the woman’s distress in order to propagandise against Iran tells all you need to know about Western media. It is self evident from the footage that it is a mental breakdown and not a protest. But still they splash a mentally ill woman’s picture around the world for cheap tawdry propaganda without a care for the woman in question.
Because we all know about the equality that women enjoy under the Iranian legal system. ::)
Some examples -
"Article 237: (1) First degree murder shall be proven by testimony of two just men; (2) Evidence for second degree murder or manslaughter shall consist in the testimony of two just men, or that of one just man and two just women, or the testimony of one just man and the sworn testimony of the accuser."
"Article 487: Section 6. Blood money for the aborted fetus which has taken in the human spirit shall be paid in full if it is male, one-half if it is female, and three-quarters if its gender is in doubt."
"Article 638- Anyone who explicitly violates any religious taboo in public beside being punished for the act should also be imprisoned from ten days to two months, or should be flogged (74 lashes).
Note- women who appear in public without a proper hijab should be imprisoned from ten days to two months or pay a fine of 50,000 to 500,000 Ryal."
"Article 74: Adultery, whether punishable by flogging or stoning, may be proven by the testimony of four just men or that of three just men and two just women.
Article 75: If adultery is punishable only by flogging it can be proven by the testimony of two just men and four just women.
Article 76: The testimony of women alone or in conjunction with the testimony of only one just man shall not prove adultery but it shall constitute false accusation which is a punishable act."
Why anyone would go out their way to support this medieval regime is beyond me.
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I aren’t here to defend the Iranian government. I’m not Iranian, don’t speak Farsi or understand their culture and societal norms so are’t informed enough to comment. Nor are you. None of your latest addresses the fact that our own societal norms are happy to use a young woman’s mental distress to push propaganda and use her image very publicly despite the further distress/harm this could quite foreseeably cause. And this is sickeningly portrayed as concern for women’s rights and wellbeing. It is shameful as is your amplification of such shameless propaganda.
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I aren’t here to defend the Iranian government. I’m not Iranian, don’t speak Farsi or understand their culture and societal norms so are’t informed enough to comment. Nor are you. None of your latest addresses the fact that our own societal norms are happy to use a young woman’s mental distress to push propaganda and use her image very publicly despite the further distress/harm this could quite foreseeably cause. And this is sickeningly portrayed as concern for women’s rights and wellbeing. It is shameful as is your amplification of such shameless propaganda.
Can you remember the bloke over here who did 'naked protest'? He used to walk all over the UK. Think I saw him at Glastonbury.
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Can you remember the bloke over here who did 'naked protest'? He used to walk all over the UK. Think I saw him at Glastonbury.
I do remember him. Didn’t he get arrested a few times? What became of him?
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I do remember him. Didn’t he get arrested a few times? What became of him?
This is him Gringo..
https://www.topfoto.co.uk/asset/1535557/
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This is him Gringo..
https://www.topfoto.co.uk/asset/1535557/
That's a different chap, Roch.
Stephen Gough lost his case for freedom of expression at the ECHR in 2014, and from 2016-2017 gave his questionable hobby up to care for his elderly mother. Too bad it took so long to sink in that frequent arrests and spending fruitless years in the nick achieved nothing. Who wants to gawp at a scruffy geezer dangling his gnarly dick in public anyway?
https://www.theguardian.com/law/2014/oct/28/naked-rambler-stephen-gough-loses-european-court-nudity
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Cheers Roch and CC for that. Special offer on the JB forum if you’re looking for “scruffy geezers dangling their gnarly dicks”. Buy one get one free :o
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That's a different chap, Roch.
Stephen Gough lost his case for freedom of expression at the ECHR in 2014, and from 2016-2017 gave his questionable hobby up to care for his elderly mother. Too bad it took so long to sink in that frequent arrests and spending fruitless years in the nick achieved nothing. Who wants to gawp at a scruffy geezer dangling his gnarly dick in public anyway?
https://www.theguardian.com/law/2014/oct/28/naked-rambler-stephen-gough-loses-european-court-nudity
Walking around naked is just not British. Sounds like the kind of thing the Swedes would do.
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Walking around naked is just not British. Sounds like the kind of thing the Swedes would do.
No, it is not.
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No, it is not.
https://www.quora.com/Can-I-just-take-off-all-of-my-clothes-and-walk-naked-on-the-streets-of-Stockholm-considering-Sweden-is-a-liberal-country?ch=10&oid=72442244&share=0a1d7712&srid=hP0MfU&target_type=question
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https://www.quora.com/Can-I-just-take-off-all-of-my-clothes-and-walk-naked-on-the-streets-of-Stockholm-considering-Sweden-is-a-liberal-country?ch=10&oid=72442244&share=0a1d7712&srid=hP0MfU&target_type=question
And who's word is going to be more reliable? Someone who has been there more times than they can count, can speak the language and has close relatives out there (Myself). Or some stranger on an online question/answer forum who's likely never been there and writes bullshit?
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And who's word is going to be more reliable? Someone who has been there more times than they can count, can speak the language and has close relatives out there (Myself). Or some stranger on an online question/answer forum who's likely never been there and writes bullshit?
It's tongue in cheek David. Have you not seen the Hale and Pace sketch with the two blokes in the sauna?
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DOJ charges three in Iranian plot to kill Donald Trump.
https://edition.cnn.com/2024/11/08/politics/doj-charges-three-iranian-plot-to-kill-donald-trump/index.html (https://edition.cnn.com/2024/11/08/politics/doj-charges-three-iranian-plot-to-kill-donald-trump/index.html)
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And who's word is going to be more reliable? Someone who has been there more times than they can count, can speak the language and has close relatives out there (Myself). Or some stranger on an online question/answer forum who's likely never been there and writes bullshit?
I wouldn't mind retiring to Sweden.
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DOJ charges three in Iranian plot to kill Donald Trump.
https://edition.cnn.com/2024/11/08/politics/doj-charges-three-iranian-plot-to-kill-donald-trump/index.html (https://edition.cnn.com/2024/11/08/politics/doj-charges-three-iranian-plot-to-kill-donald-trump/index.html)
Do you believe that there is an "Iranian plot" to assassinate Trump? If so, on what basis?
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Do you believe that there is an "Iranian plot" to assassinate Trump? If so, on what basis?
"The Department of Justice (DoJ) revealed it had thwarted the murder-for-hire plot ordered by the elite Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) in revenge for Mr Trump’s fatal 2020 strike on the Iranian general Qassem Soleimani."
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Do you believe that there is an "Iranian plot" to assassinate Trump? If so, on what basis?
Why are you always defending Iran gringo, come what may..https://youtu.be/p4pxtf9xMz8
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Why are you always defending Iran gringo, come what may..https://youtu.be/p4pxtf9xMz8
It seems far fetched. If it can be traced back to Iran and Trump is killed, then it's not brain surgery to work out the consequences. The Iranians are not harebrained.
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How would Iran benefit from this supposed plot? Can you think of any country that would benefit from an alleged Iranian plot to assassinate Trump? The stories are not even credible anymore. The less believable the propaganda, the more the desperation of an Empire rapidly losing its status is demonstrated. The Israelis are aware that they are unable to take on Iran and are desperate to draw in the US. Zionists in the US also desire this. The US going to war with Iran would only lead to a more rapid demise of the US. They would no longer be a world power.
They cannot defeat Iran conventionally, not in Iran anyway. Every US base in the middle East would be destroyed by Iran in the event of war with the US. No aircraft carrier group could get within striking distance without being sunk. This is understood by the Pentagon. Resorting to nukes would also have the same outcome. US delivery systems are invested heavily in projecting air power. Modern air defence and missile technology has neutralised that threat and the US and West in general have been left behind. Iran have "missile cities" buried deep in the deserts and mountains which would be launched in the event of a large attack on it. There would be no Israel and the US would finished as a world power.
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Why are you always defending Iran gringo, come what may..https://youtu.be/p4pxtf9xMz8
I stand for truth, Steve. Why are you always attacking whichever latest enemy du jour of NATO/UK is being targeted in media and establishment circles? It is a rhetorical question, Steve. Like a trained dog fetching on command, you and others are easily led by the war mongers.
"Oceania have always been at war with Eastasia".
We have no cause for attacking Iran. Why are you always supportive of any war or military intervention by US/UK. Why don't you care that millions are killed in your name based on lies?
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It seems far fetched. If it can be traced back to Iran and Trump is killed, then it's not brain surgery to work out the consequences. The Iranians are not harebrained.
Exactly this, Roch. Anyone who believes this most unlikely tale is the "hairbrained" one. In a surprise to no-one, David and Steve are "believers".
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Exactly this, Roch. Anyone who believes this most unlikely tale is the "hairbrained" one. In a surprise to no-one, David and Steve are "believers".
David is a believer alright. He believes that Nick Bickerstaff's video is genuine.
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I stand for truth,
No, you live in a fantasy world.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0Ath3kw544 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0Ath3kw544)
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0Ath3kw544 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0Ath3kw544)
The comments underneath are priceless. No-one is buying such obvious propaganda. If you do believe that Iran are behind some thwarted assassination plot then you are a gullible fool.
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The comments underneath are priceless. No-one is buying such obvious propaganda. If you do believe that Iran are behind some thwarted assassination plot then you are a gullible fool.
The comments underneath are indeed priceless.
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One of the alleged would-be assassins hired by Iran is a self-employed pipe fitter from Staten Island and convicted murderer.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14061207/Carlisle-Rivera-Donald-Trump-assassin-Iran-hired-NYC-Staten-Island.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14061207/Carlisle-Rivera-Donald-Trump-assassin-Iran-hired-NYC-Staten-Island.html)
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My thoughts on this issue tally with Nigel Farage's: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/farage-urges-starmer-to-proscribe-iran-s-irgc-after-foiled-assassination-plot/ar-AA1tPJWZ?ocid=msedgntp&pc=U531&cvid=ad2304476a0f4197bfafe875b48c7bfc&ei=16
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My thoughts on this issue tally with Nigel Farage's: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/farage-urges-starmer-to-proscribe-iran-s-irgc-after-foiled-assassination-plot/ar-AA1tPJWZ?ocid=msedgntp&pc=U531&cvid=ad2304476a0f4197bfafe875b48c7bfc&ei=16
Should the CIA be proscribed?
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Should the CIA be proscribed?
Well, they have made mistakes, admittedly.
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Should the CIA be proscribed?
I’m assuming your question is rhetorical, Roch. You could add a few more to the list 🤔
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I’m assuming your question is rhetorical, Roch. You could add a few more to the list 🤔
Yes I can well imagine Gringo.
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Interesting opinion on Iran, Israel, USA.
https://youtu.be/xH51O9gPxZ8?si=VEYNDpAkUbkSn9t3
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Interesting opinion on Iran, Israel, USA.
https://youtu.be/xH51O9gPxZ8?si=VEYNDpAkUbkSn9t3
At least the cat is out of the bag. The US military top brass, Biden, Harris, ngb1066 and gringo all wish to evacuate Jews and let the Islamic hordes usurp all the territory of the historic Holy Land.
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Interesting opinion on Iran, Israel, USA.
https://youtu.be/xH51O9gPxZ8?si=VEYNDpAkUbkSn9t3
Outside the western media bubble, what Wilkerson is saying is generally accepted truth, Roch and non controversial. The West- US/NATO et al are defeated. Economically, informationally, politically and militarily-the collective west has no answer to the multipolarity being born. The Hegemon is dying a slow death and lashing out in anger and desperation as it does so but it is still dying. NATO, the EU and the colonialist occupiers in Palestine masquerading as Zionism are all about to be resigned to the dustbin of history.
It was and is already well known that Iranian air defence and missile tech is way ahead of western equivalents. I have stated this many times over the years. Iran are too strong for the West to attack. The damage and death that Iran would cause any attacker, even if nuked, is too great for any attack to be contemplated. Israel are weak and without Western support cannot exist. Iran and the wider resistance movement will remove the US presence from the Middle East and once they do, Israel follows. It will collapse from within because it cannot survive in its neighbourly belligerent status without outside military support.
Nobody needs to invade Israel or attempt decapitation of the regime which only invites a rapidly escalating military/nuclear response. Remove the western support and allow Israel to wither has long been the Iranian/resistance strategy. Western belligerence only increases the resistance to US occupation forces and aids Iranian strategy. The world only solidifies more against the collective West the longer the genocide goes on. The, always flimsy, mask of the West has been removed and there is no hiding the arming, funding and complicity in a genocide of the "human rights preaching" West. The political cover being given at the UN etc. all revealed in it's technicolour grotesqueness to the whole, increasingly horrified, world.
It is what happens when you get into a complex geopolitical chess game with the inventors of chess. Out-thought, out maneouvred heading for inevitable defeat.
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Outside the western media bubble, what Wilkerson is saying is generally accepted truth, Roch and non controversial. The West- US/NATO et al are defeated. Economically, informationally, politically and militarily-the collective west has no answer to the multipolarity being born. The Hegemon is dying a slow death and lashing out in anger and desperation as it does so but it is still dying. NATO, the EU and the colonialist occupiers in Palestine masquerading as Zionism are all about to be resigned to the dustbin of history.
It was and is already well known that Iranian air defence and missile tech is way ahead of western equivalents. I have stated this many times over the years. Iran are too strong for the West to attack. The damage and death that Iran would cause any attacker, even if nuked, is too great for any attack to be contemplated. Israel are weak and without Western support cannot exist. Iran and the wider resistance movement will remove the US presence from the Middle East and once they do, Israel follows. It will collapse from within because it cannot survive in its neighbourly belligerent status without outside military support.
Nobody needs to invade Israel or attempt decapitation of the regime which only invites a rapidly escalating military/nuclear response. Remove the western support and allow Israel to wither has long been the Iranian/resistance strategy. Western belligerence only increases the resistance to US occupation forces and aids Iranian strategy. The world only solidifies more against the collective West the longer the genocide goes on. The, always flimsy, mask of the West has been removed and there is no hiding the arming, funding and complicity in a genocide of the "human rights preaching" West. The political cover being given at the UN etc. all revealed in it's technicolour grotesqueness to the whole, increasingly horrified, world.
It is what happens when you get into a complex geopolitical chess game with the inventors of chess. Out-thought, out maneouvred heading for inevitable defeat.
I wouldn't mind so much if we were to cede these things to moral people. Putin, Xi, Modi, Lula? No thanks.
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I wouldn't mind so much if we were to cede these things to moral people. Putin, Xi, Modi, Lula? No thanks.
Ultimately Steve, it is largely on moral grounds that the West has lost. Any moral standing that the West had in the world has gone. The complicity and political cover given to Israel, the prolonging of the war in Ukraine-the rest of the World no longer sees the US/NATO led West as moral leaders. The longer the conflicts have continued, the more the reputation of the Collective West has plummeted in the eyes of the world. Nobody in the world listens to lectures about morals or human rights coming from the degenerate collective West anymore, Steve.
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I think one can hazard a guess of what's in store for Iran. https://www.jns.org/iran-nuclear-deal-must-remove-enrichment-capabilities-netanyahu-tells-jns/?utm_campaign=Daily%20Syndicate%20Emails&utm_medium=email&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-_c1PDgRy6dWScZyBwtGa4PXGnn_sQ084rhexQWvwsnUgzXjNaT4wVs1g41GMciGZuBDDQFh2bAiByE8A-bUQSdDYIzzyJQY2ZXhdPyU-NuOa3Br6o&_hsmi=108514500&utm_content=108514500&utm_source=hs_email
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I think one can hazard a guess of what's in store for Iran. https://www.jns.org/iran-nuclear-deal-must-remove-enrichment-capabilities-netanyahu-tells-jns/?utm_campaign=Daily%20Syndicate%20Emails&utm_medium=email&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-_c1PDgRy6dWScZyBwtGa4PXGnn_sQ084rhexQWvwsnUgzXjNaT4wVs1g41GMciGZuBDDQFh2bAiByE8A-bUQSdDYIzzyJQY2ZXhdPyU-NuOa3Br6o&_hsmi=108514500&utm_content=108514500&utm_source=hs_email
What do you imagine is in store for Iran? The US/Israel have no way of defeating Iran without destroying themselves. They can't prevent AnsarAllah(Houthis) from choking off the Red Sea and Suez to Israeli/US shipping despite a couple of aircraft Carrier groups and B2 long distance bombers doing their utmost. Any attack on Iran would result in every US base in the Middle East being destroyed and any Aircraft carrier group sunk. Israel would do even worse than that and would cease to exist. No nukes are required to end Israel. A handful of strategic targets makes it untenable anyway. Dimona, Haifa oil refinery, chemicals plant, desalination plant and port.
Iranian missile capability is much superior to US/Israel in both quality and quantity. Their Air Defence capabilities make any attempted bombing raids problematical, to say the least. Many vital assets and capabilities are hidden in the vast desert and mountains of Iran, deep underground. There is a reason that Iran hasn't been attacked despite many threats, Steve, and those reasons have grown exponentially over the years. Another example of the utter failure of the use of sanctions by US/UK/EU et al. Sanctions policies have backfired completely and strengthened the sanctioned countries such as Iran and Russia whilst weakening the sanctioners.
There is no attack "in store" for Iran. The would be attackers can't afford the cost.
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What do you imagine is in store for Iran? The US/Israel have no way of defeating Iran without destroying themselves. They can't prevent AnsarAllah(Houthis) from choking off the Red Sea and Suez to Israeli/US shipping despite a couple of aircraft Carrier groups and B2 long distance bombers doing their utmost. Any attack on Iran would result in every US base in the Middle East being destroyed and any Aircraft carrier group sunk. Israel would do even worse than that and would cease to exist. No nukes are required to end Israel. A handful of strategic targets makes it untenable anyway. Dimona, Haifa oil refinery, chemicals plant, desalination plant and port.
Iranian missile capability is much superior to US/Israel in both quality and quantity. Their Air Defence capabilities make any attempted bombing raids problematical, to say the least. Many vital assets and capabilities are hidden in the vast desert and mountains of Iran, deep underground. There is a reason that Iran hasn't been attacked despite many threats, Steve, and those reasons have grown exponentially over the years. Another example of the utter failure of the use of sanctions by US/UK/EU et al. Sanctions policies have backfired completely and strengthened the sanctioned countries such as Iran and Russia whilst weakening the sanctioners.
There is no attack "in store" for Iran. The would be attackers can't afford the cost.
It may be a token attack in response to 7 October, when Hamas, sponsored by Iran, killed 1200 Israelis and took 251 hostages. I could foresee the targeting of the Fuel Enrichment Plants at Natanz and Fordow, with possibly the assistance of the USA, using the bunker busters fired by B-2 bombers.
This is the Israel founded on the Old Testament, with its message of wrath and retribution. There are none of Jesus Christ's Beatitudes here.
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There will be retaliation: https://www.jns.org/explosion-reported-near-ben-gurion-airport-after-yemen-missile-launch/?utm_campaign=Daily%20Syndicate%20Emails&utm_medium=email&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-_N_qrhJWCeD_oLkFQFKGCWiKbzdtUJL9a2KtMJKrMl74do866fQaW7oXcW7IhmBfSGNqpjLedvheQ3jM1ifK5KVVL29UreloTQtG1aY0RY-2amb64&_hsmi=108869867&utm_content=108869867&utm_source=hs_email
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It may be a token attack in response to 7 October, when Hamas, sponsored by Iran, killed 1200 Israelis and took 251 hostages. I could foresee the targeting of the Fuel Enrichment Plants at Natanz and Fordow, with possibly the assistance of the USA, using the bunker busters fired by B-2 bombers.
This is the Israel founded on the Old Testament, with its message of wrath and retribution. There are none of Jesus Christ's Beatitudes here.
And then what do you think will happen? The US and Israel understand that the retaliation that Iran could unleash even if you don't. Iran's geography(surrounded by mountains and sea), as has been pointed out before, makes it almost impossible to invade. Its vast mountainous and desert areas ideal for many impenetrable underground bases from which to retaliate massively no matter the damage elsewhere.
Long distance warfare is what the US/UK/Israel are currently waging against AnsarAllah(Houthis) and the lack of success is plain to see. AnsarAllah similarly are protected from ground invasion by the same quirks of geography as Iran, a terrain which is suited to defensive war. This point was brutally emphasised when the US/UK/Saudi/UAE sponsored mercenaries kept getting ambushed and having their equipment taken by the Houthis every time they tried a land invasion in the recent western sponsored war on Yemen. The bombing raids are completely ineffective against the military capabilities of the Houthis who are well dug in and hidden and so are instead targeted at civilian infrastructure and populations, which is Standard Operational Procedure for Western militaries. The US Navy is being humiliated by a military with a fraction of the capabilities of Iran whose resources and capabilities are greater by magnitudes. War on Iran is neither feasible or winnable.
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And then what do you think will happen? The US and Israel understand that the retaliation that Iran could unleash even if you don't. Iran's geography(surrounded by mountains and sea), as has been pointed out before, makes it almost impossible to invade. Its vast mountainous and desert areas ideal for many impenetrable underground bases from which to retaliate massively no matter the damage elsewhere.
Long distance warfare is what the US/UK/Israel are currently waging against AnsarAllah(Houthis) and the lack of success is plain to see. AnsarAllah similarly are protected from ground invasion by the same quirks of geography as Iran, a terrain which is suited to defensive war. This point was brutally emphasised when the US/UK/Saudi/UAE sponsored mercenaries kept getting ambushed and having their equipment taken by the Houthis every time they tried a land invasion in the recent western sponsored war on Yemen. The bombing raids are completely ineffective against the military capabilities of the Houthis who are well dug in and hidden and so are instead targeted at civilian infrastructure and populations, which is Standard Operational Procedure for Western militaries. The US Navy is being humiliated by a military with a fraction of the capabilities of Iran whose resources and capabilities are greater by magnitudes. War on Iran is neither feasible or winnable.
There was regime change in Syria. I wouldn't bet against a similar revolt in Iran.
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There was regime change in Syria. I wouldn't bet against a similar revolt in Iran.
I wouldn't back the so called Syrian government(Al Jolani and his merry band of ISIS headchoppers) to last too long in Syria. US/UK/Israel dream of and encourage a regime change in Iran because they have no means to defeat them militarily. The Western Imperialists will soon retreat from West Asia, world power is shifting and it is unstoppable, Steve. The US will not for long be able to sustain their 800 or so overseas bases. New military realities have made them not defendable and extremely vulnerable. Economic realities have also caught up with the financialised and service economies of the West, largely self inflicted through the weaponisation of financial services and banking via the overused illegal sanctions thrown around like candy. The imperialists of western governments have been the architects of their, and our, own demise.
Currently many western leaders are desperate for war with Russia because they need one to save their own traitorous, criminal arses from their own populations. Nothing like a war to cover up all the malfeasance and criminality. If there is no war western leaders know they are fucked. They have run their countries into the ground and western infrastructure now is a joke compared to most Asian countries. Our political class are the most incompetent and ill qualified in living memory and you wouldn't trust most of them to be able to run a cake stall at a local fare competently.
Steve, the West is done, it's over. ~The majority of the world, and a sizeable chunk of the 15% of humanity in western aligned countries, celebrate this. Your enemy isn't Putin or Xi Jinping, your enemy is your own governments and political class whispering into your ear about how Putin is to blame, Assad is your enemy, China are your enemy. It's called propaganda and you are a sucker for it. We have plenty of problems to deal with at home which are being completely ignored, we don't need to invent problems abroad.
A country that chooses to fund atrocities abroad but can't adequately fund keeping their own vulnerable populations warm is serving outside interests. It is only because of people like you supporting this that they get away with it.
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I wouldn't back the so called Syrian government(Al Jolani and his merry band of ISIS headchoppers) to last too long in Syria. US/UK/Israel dream of and encourage a regime change in Iran because they have no means to defeat them militarily. The Western Imperialists will soon retreat from West Asia, world power is shifting and it is unstoppable, Steve. The US will not for long be able to sustain their 800 or so overseas bases. New military realities have made them not defendable and extremely vulnerable. Economic realities have also caught up with the financialised and service economies of the West, largely self inflicted through the weaponisation of financial services and banking via the overused illegal sanctions thrown around like candy. The imperialists of western governments have been the architects of their, and our, own demise.
Currently many western leaders are desperate for war with Russia because they need one to save their own traitorous, criminal arses from their own populations. Nothing like a war to cover up all the malfeasance and criminality. If there is no war western leaders know they are fucked. They have run their countries into the ground and western infrastructure now is a joke compared to most Asian countries. Our political class are the most incompetent and ill qualified in living memory and you wouldn't trust most of them to be able to run a cake stall at a local fare competently.
Steve, the West is done, it's over. ~The majority of the world, and a sizeable chunk of the 15% of humanity in western aligned countries, celebrate this. Your enemy isn't Putin or Xi Jinping, your enemy is your own governments and political class whispering into your ear about how Putin is to blame, Assad is your enemy, China are your enemy. It's called propaganda and you are a sucker for it. We have plenty of problems to deal with at home which are being completely ignored, we don't need to invent problems abroad.
A country that chooses to fund atrocities abroad but can't adequately fund keeping their own vulnerable populations warm is serving outside interests. It is only because of people like you supporting this that they get away with it.
I didn't support the Iraq war. In fact, bombing a country rarely if ever solves anything. It was more a tongue in cheek remark. However, if you believe that a country's nuclear programme represents an existential threat it wouldn't surprise me if an attack, even if it's a token attack, is imminent.
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I didn't support the Iraq war. In fact, bombing a country rarely if ever solves anything. It was more a tongue in cheek remark. However, if you believe that a country's nuclear programme represents an existential threat it wouldn't surprise me if an attack, even if it's a token attack, is imminent.
You support the arming and enabling of Israel and you cheer on their bombing. You certainly give the impression that you believe bombing hospitals, schools, refugee camps etc. etc. is a solution for Israel and its western backers, albeit a "Final Solution" type of solution. As an apologist for all things NATO, you cannot be taken seriously with such a statement. Bombing is go to "NATO solution" to any and every so called "problem". "Problem" is obviously a euphemism for "a leader who refuses to do as he is told western imperialists". Your second sentence gives it away, Steve.
"If you believe a country's nuclear programme represents an existential threat..." If who "believes"? Who decides an "existential threat" exists? On that basis, surely Iran and others have a perfectly valid reason to attack Israel. There is a substantial amount of evidence that Israel's undeclared and un-monitored nuclear programme is an existential threat to the whole region and humanity as a whole. Do you think that there should be a "token attack" on Israel's secretive, undeclared and never subject to IAEA oversight nuclear programme at Dimona?
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You support the arming and enabling of Israel and you cheer on their bombing. You certainly give the impression that you believe bombing hospitals, schools, refugee camps etc. etc. is a solution for Israel and its western backers, albeit a "Final Solution" type of solution. As an apologist for all things NATO, you cannot be taken seriously with such a statement. Bombing is go to "NATO solution" to any and every so called "problem". "Problem" is obviously a euphemism for "a leader who refuses to do as he is told western imperialists". Your second sentence gives it away, Steve.
"If you believe a country's nuclear programme represents an existential threat..." If who "believes"? Who decides an "existential threat" exists? On that basis, surely Iran and others have a perfectly valid reason to attack Israel. There is a substantial amount of evidence that Israel's undeclared and un-monitored nuclear programme is an existential threat to the whole region and humanity as a whole. Do you think that there should be a "token attack" on Israel's secretive, undeclared and never subject to IAEA oversight nuclear programme at Dimona?
The difference is that Israel, if left unprovoked, does not represent a threat to anyone outside its own borders. Have those borders been attacked by six different sources now; I've lost count. Israel is entitled to consider a hostile country's nuclear programme as an existential threat.
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The difference is that Israel, if left unprovoked, does not represent a threat to anyone outside its own borders. Have those borders been attacked by six different sources now; I've lost count. Israel is entitled to consider a hostile country's nuclear programme as an existential threat.
Is Iran entitled to consider Israeli nuclear facilities(Israel are clearly hostile to Iran) as an existential threat. Israel have attacked Iran unprovoked and have been bleating at the UN for about 40 years that Iran are six months/a year/5 minutes from developing a nuclear weapon whilst begging the US to bomb them. Surely that entitles Iran, using your logic, to bomb the shit out of Dimona.
I would also say that Iran as signatories to the NPT along with other responsible nuclear powers are open to inspections by IAEA inspectors. Israel, on the other hand, have never signed the NPT, never declared as a nuclear power, have never had any facility inspected and given international oversight by IAEA or anyone. No one knows what the hell is going on there. They are not credible accusers. - Who is the existential threat, Steve?
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Is Iran entitled to consider Israeli nuclear facilities(Israel are clearly hostile to Iran) as an existential threat. Israel have attacked Iran unprovoked and have been bleating at the UN for about 40 years that Iran are six months/a year/5 minutes from developing a nuclear weapon whilst begging the US to bomb them. Surely that entitles Iran, using your logic, to bomb the shit out of Dimona.
I would also say that Iran as signatories to the NPT along with other responsible nuclear powers are open to inspections by IAEA inspectors. Israel, on the other hand, have never signed the NPT, never declared as a nuclear power, have never had any facility inspected and given international oversight by IAEA or anyone. No one knows what the hell is going on there. They are not credible accusers. - Who is the existential threat, Steve?
Iran is enriching uranium to a level not required for peaceful domestic purposes but to weapons-grade levels.
In 2023, Iran withdrew the designation of several experienced International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) inspectors, including those with expertise in uranium enrichment technology. This action, considered politically motivated by the IAEA, significantly impacts the agency's ability to verify Iran's nuclear program, particularly at enrichment facilities. The IAEA has repeatedly called on Iran to reverse these de-designations and fully cooperate, but Iran has offered to consider accepting four additional inspectors instead, excluding those previously de-designated.
Here's a more detailed breakdown:
De-designation:
Iran revoked the designation of multiple IAEA inspectors, including those with specialized knowledge of uranium enrichment, which is crucial for verifying Iran's nuclear activities.
Impact on IAEA:
The removal of these inspectors hinders the IAEA's ability to conduct effective inspections and verify Iran's nuclear program, particularly at enrichment facilities.
IAEA Response:
The IAEA has expressed concern and requested Iran to reverse the de-designation, emphasizing the importance of cooperation in ensuring the peaceful nature of Iran's nuclear program.
Iran's Offer:
Iran has offered to accept four additional inspectors, but this does not address the initial issue of the de-designated inspectors, according to the Institute for Science and International Security (ISIS).
Iran's de-designation of experienced IAEA inspectors ...
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Iran is enriching uranium to a level not required for peaceful domestic purposes but to weapons-grade levels.
In 2023, Iran withdrew the designation of several experienced International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) inspectors, including those with expertise in uranium enrichment technology. This action, considered politically motivated by the IAEA, significantly impacts the agency's ability to verify Iran's nuclear program, particularly at enrichment facilities. The IAEA has repeatedly called on Iran to reverse these de-designations and fully cooperate, but Iran has offered to consider accepting four additional inspectors instead, excluding those previously de-designated.
Here's a more detailed breakdown:
De-designation:
Iran revoked the designation of multiple IAEA inspectors, including those with specialized knowledge of uranium enrichment, which is crucial for verifying Iran's nuclear activities.
Impact on IAEA:
The removal of these inspectors hinders the IAEA's ability to conduct effective inspections and verify Iran's nuclear program, particularly at enrichment facilities.
IAEA Response:
The IAEA has expressed concern and requested Iran to reverse the de-designation, emphasizing the importance of cooperation in ensuring the peaceful nature of Iran's nuclear program.
Iran's Offer:
Iran has offered to accept four additional inspectors, but this does not address the initial issue of the de-designated inspectors, according to the Institute for Science and International Security (ISIS).
Iran's de-designation of experienced IAEA inspectors ...
An AI generated response :-[
The de-designation of a number of IAEA inspectors was appropriate, from the point of view of Iran, and massively mis-represented by those with hostile intent to Iran. Noticeable in your response is the absence of much key information, such as reasons for de-designation and how many inspectors were de-designated and how many inspectors are in total available. Had you known these relevant factors, it should have led you to a number of other questions if you were the least bit intellectually curious.
You would, had you been curious enough, have discovered that Iran removed the verification of three inspectors, Steve. 3 out of 127, Steve. Why were they removed?, you might ask, or should. Did Iran give any reasons?, and if so what are those reasons? According to Iran;
“We removed inspectors from the list who were nationals of countries that show harsh political behavior toward the Islamic Republic,” said Mohammad Eslami, who leads the Atomic Energy Organization of Iran (AEOI).[/i]"
Iran have made clear that other inspectors can be appointed. There are many available but the Western powers are playing politics and merely continuing their decades old policy of aggression and threats towards Iran. If you were curious enough and asked enough questions, you would discover this.
At this point, in judging whether this is reasonable behaviour from Iran, you should consider the following; Would you consider UK, US, France reasonable in de-designating Iranian IAEA inspectors from inspecting their facilities? It was the US who tore up the JCPOA, western powers have been consistently hostile to Iran (sanctions, threats). If you represented Iran, would you trust inspectors from such hostile countries? Other inspectors are available. None, however, have ever inspected Israel's undeclared facilities. No pressure from western countries is raised on this issue and any international efforts are blocked by western powers. Why are they apparently so untroubled by this nuclear arsenal in the possession of a country that has the "Samson Option" as a defence strategy?, but apparently troubled by Iran's non existent arsenal and openness to inspection.
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An AI generated response :-[
The de-designation of a number of IAEA inspectors was appropriate, from the point of view of Iran, and massively mis-represented by those with hostile intent to Iran. Noticeable in your response is the absence of much key information, such as reasons for de-designation and how many inspectors were de-designated and how many inspectors are in total available. Had you known these relevant factors, it should have led you to a number of other questions if you were the least bit intellectually curious.
You would, had you been curious enough, have discovered that Iran removed the verification of three inspectors, Steve. 3 out of 127, Steve. Why were they removed?, you might ask, or should. Did Iran give any reasons?, and if so what are those reasons? According to Iran;
“We removed inspectors from the list who were nationals of countries that show harsh political behavior toward the Islamic Republic,” said Mohammad Eslami, who leads the Atomic Energy Organization of Iran (AEOI).[/i]"
Iran have made clear that other inspectors can be appointed. There are many available but the Western powers are playing politics and merely continuing their decades old policy of aggression and threats towards Iran. If you were curious enough and asked enough questions, you would discover this.
At this point, in judging whether this is reasonable behaviour from Iran, you should consider the following; Would you consider UK, US, France reasonable in de-designating Iranian IAEA inspectors from inspecting their facilities? It was the US who tore up the JCPOA, western powers have been consistently hostile to Iran (sanctions, threats). If you represented Iran, would you trust inspectors from such hostile countries? Other inspectors are available. None, however, have ever inspected Israel's undeclared facilities. No pressure from western countries is raised on this issue and any international efforts are blocked by western powers. Why are they apparently so untroubled by this nuclear arsenal in the possession of a country that has the "Samson Option" as a defence strategy?, but apparently troubled by Iran's non existent arsenal and openness to inspection.
I never use it. Here is Trump discussing the subject: https://www.jns.org/by-recognizing-israel-youll-be-greatly-honoring-me-trump-tells-saudis/?utm_campaign=Daily%20Syndicate%20Emails&utm_medium=email&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-99RaEt1wmep4FNff_lAIUwF-2cfbeYl279PrNp5vsIbNwnR-ltP1CwsMMP3HL2RaKOXBtmiDGKNnERKIecPMt_TefH8jRdyWVM6m3xonyk3K9jQtM&_hsmi=109465790&utm_content=109465790&utm_source=hs_email
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An AI generated response :-[
I never use it. Here is Trump discussing the subject: https://www.jns.org/by-recognizing-israel-youll-be-greatly-honoring-me-trump-tells-saudis/?utm_campaign=Daily%20Syndicate%20Emails&utm_medium=email&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-99RaEt1wmep4FNff_lAIUwF-2cfbeYl279PrNp5vsIbNwnR-ltP1CwsMMP3HL2RaKOXBtmiDGKNnERKIecPMt_TefH8jRdyWVM6m3xonyk3K9jQtM&_hsmi=109465790&utm_content=109465790&utm_source=hs_email
Steve, the entire response that you gave was AI generated. It is the verbatim script of google AI overview. By googling, "Iran bans IAEA inspectors", the first result is the AI overview which you have simply copy/pasted. I could tell it was AI generated before googling it by the soulless writing and the limited and biased sources that it obviously relied on. AI is extremely limited and no substitute for human intelligence. Anyone can google this and will see your word for word response. This is why you are unable to conduct a proper discussion. You know too little to answer any questions posed to you and lack the intellectual curiosity to better inform yourself. You cannot coherently articulate your own thoughts on the subject because you don't know enough to have your own thoughts, which is why an AI bot can speak for you. You need to ask intelligent questions of anything that you read, question the premise on which an argument is made, do your own fact checking. If you are too intellectually lazy for all of this, Zero Intelligence AI is not an adequate substitute.
The second part of your response is a complete non sequitur. A link to an article about Trump meeting the Saudis and asking them to recognise Israel has nothing to do with the subject being discussed. You were responding to comments regarding IAEA inspections and Iran's supposed nuclear threat. Your responses only demonstrate to anyone reading how far out of your depth you are.
You gave a ten word response and a link. The first four words self evidently untrue, oh and so were the next six and the link had no relevance to the subject matter either. Give it up, you are drowning.
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None, however, have ever inspected Israel's undeclared facilities. No pressure from western countries is raised on this issue and any international efforts are blocked by western powers.
That is not correct.
https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/documents/duplicity-deception-self-deception-israel-united-states-dimona-inspections-1964-65/Haaretz-article.pdf (https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/documents/duplicity-deception-self-deception-israel-united-states-dimona-inspections-1964-65/Haaretz-article.pdf)
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Any attack on Iran would result in every US base in the Middle East being destroyed and any Aircraft carrier group sunk. Israel would do even worse than that and would cease to exist.
Which is why none of that happened when Israel did indeed Attack Iran (https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/consequences-idf-strikes-iran)
There is only one type of military in (theoretical/speculative) existence that can wipe the floor with the US military like you are describing (fantasising about) and it wouldn't be in your interest if they carried it out.
https://youtu.be/F6NBE6THBCI?feature=shared&t=8 (https://youtu.be/F6NBE6THBCI?feature=shared&t=8)
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Which is why none of that happened when Israel did indeed Attack Iran (https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/consequences-idf-strikes-iran)
There is only one type of military in (theoretical/speculative) existence that can wipe the floor with the US military like you are describing (fantasising about) and it wouldn't be in your interest if they carried it out.
https://youtu.be/F6NBE6THBCI?feature=shared&t=8 (https://youtu.be/F6NBE6THBCI?feature=shared&t=8)
Preparation for True Promise III began after that last Israeli attack.
US generals have war-gamed a US / Iran conflict and concluded it was not winnable.
No doubt the US could cause immense damage from the air. But not without risk to its own bases in middle east.
Houthis have just evaded THAAD and Iron Dome etc.
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If you represented Iran, would you trust inspectors from such hostile countries? Other inspectors are available. None, however, have ever inspected Israel's undeclared facilities. No pressure from western countries is raised on this issue and any international efforts are blocked by western powers.
That is not correct.
https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/documents/duplicity-deception-self-deception-israel-united-states-dimona-inspections-1964-65/Haaretz-article.pdf (https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/documents/duplicity-deception-self-deception-israel-united-states-dimona-inspections-1964-65/Haaretz-article.pdf)
It is correct, David. The article that you linked to emphasises my point rather than corrects it. To be clear, the entire discussion was about IAEA inspectors and oversight and the related fact of Israel's undeclared status and lack of inspection/oversight, which your link doesn't address, never mind challenge. The point that you think you have made, (ie. that Israel has had inspections) isn't true and the article makes clear that Israel have avoided any oversight. The limited "visit" that was allowed by US State Dept at the "invitation" of the Israelis barred access to reactors and other sensitive sites. And that was in 1965. The US State Dept communications make this unequivocally clear.
The US State Dept is not the IAEA and nor do they oversee NPT compliance, which Israel isn't party to anyway. The fact remains, David. Israel's nuclear facilities are undeclared and not open to any international oversight. This is not even a disputed fact by anyone and your attempted rebuttal establishes the point. Your attempt to dispute such a known fact does you no credit.
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Preparation for True Promise III began after that last Israeli attack.
And it never materialised because they knew what would happen.
“The more you f*ck around, the more you’re going to find out." - Roger Skaer
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And it never materialised because they knew what would happen.
“The more you f*ck around, the more you’re going to find out." - Roger Skaer
Israel have a very competent air force. Iran has thousands upon thousands of missiles and drones. Both countries have air defence systems. Both countries probably have electronic jamming technology. Iran is vast. Israel by comparison is tiny. I think Iran could cause devastation in specific areas of Israel, if it mass targeted those areas. In the long run I think Iran would win. Israel's population are not used to witnessing mass devastation in their own country.
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Israel have a very competent air force. Iran has thousands upon thousands of missiles and drones. Both countries have air defence systems. Both countries probably have electronic jamming technology. Iran is vast. Israel by comparison is tiny. I think Iran could cause devastation in specific areas of Israel, if it mass targeted those areas. In the long run I think Iran would win. Israel's population are not used to witnessing mass devastation in their own country.
All out war between Israel and Iran is never going to happen. The type of missiles that Iran uses cost anywhere between 500k and 1.5 million each. With a 95+% interception rate, its not financially viable. And they achieve nothing.
They could have sold all those rockets to Russia and built a dozen new schools or hospitals.
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Israel have a very competent air force. Iran has thousands upon thousands of missiles and drones. Both countries have air defence systems. Both countries probably have electronic jamming technology. Iran is vast. Israel by comparison is tiny. I think Iran could cause devastation in specific areas of Israel, if it mass targeted those areas. In the long run I think Iran would win. Israel's population are not used to witnessing mass devastation in their own country.
All true, Roch. Iran's advantages over Israel are vast. Israel's Air Force however cannot penetrate Iran's defences as they found out on their last venture. Iran's missiles, on the other hand can and have, easily overcome Israel Air Defence. David fails to understand, and doesn't attempt to understand the strategies, moves and countermoves that have unfolded over the years. If you seek confirmation bias then that is what you will find, which is exactly what David does.
To address David's latest piece of misinformation in which he claims, via the notoriously unreliable ISW, that Israel attacked Iran without consequence. Much like his claim of international oversight and inspections at Dimona-it never happened. The failed aborted attack was much discussed at the time and it is clear that Israeli jets turned back before entering Iranian airspace after being locked onto by Iranian AD. The ordnance that the Israeli's prematurely dropped before turning tail was found all over neighbouring countries. There is no evidence provided by the Israelis of anything hit, no footage, pictures or anything and what was released was soon identified as old footage from elsewhere.
https://www.thelastamericanvagabond.com/israel-attack-iran-failure/
The longer term strategy of Iran, for the wilfully obtuse such as David and Steve, is to make the US presence in the Middle East untenable. With US withdrawal, then Israel becomes untenable. Iran don't want hot war, not because they couldn't win it-they could and would but it would also be hugely damaging to them and any victory would be the epitome of a Pyrrhic victory. The longer term attritional strategy is to gradually bleed out the enemy whilst always carrying enough threat to prevent the enemy launching a hot war. It is clear to objective observers that the threat posed by Empire is massive air power and equally clear that this threat has been neutralised and countered by superior Air Defence and missile technology. Now it's just a matter of strategic patience.
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All true, Roch. Iran's advantages over Israel are vast. Israel's Air Force however cannot penetrate Iran's defences as they found out on their last venture. Iran's missiles, on the other hand can and have, easily overcome Israel Air Defence. David fails to understand, and doesn't attempt to understand the strategies, moves and countermoves that have unfolded over the years. If you seek confirmation bias then that is what you will find, which is exactly what David does.
To address David's latest piece of misinformation in which he claims, via the notoriously unreliable ISW, that Israel attacked Iran without consequence. Much like his claim of international oversight and inspections at Dimona-it never happened. The failed aborted attack was much discussed at the time and it is clear that Israeli jets turned back before entering Iranian airspace after being locked onto by Iranian AD. The ordnance that the Israeli's prematurely dropped before turning tail was found all over neighbouring countries. There is no evidence provided by the Israelis of anything hit, no footage, pictures or anything and what was released was soon identified as old footage from elsewhere.
https://www.thelastamericanvagabond.com/israel-attack-iran-failure/
The longer term strategy of Iran, for the wilfully obtuse such as David and Steve, is to make the US presence in the Middle East untenable. With US withdrawal, then Israel becomes untenable. Iran don't want hot war, not because they couldn't win it-they could and would but it would also be hugely damaging to them and any victory would be the epitome of a Pyrrhic victory. The longer term attritional strategy is to gradually bleed out the enemy whilst always carrying enough threat to prevent the enemy launching a hot war. It is clear to objective observers that the threat posed by Empire is massive air power and equally clear that this threat has been neutralised and countered by superior Air Defence and missile technology. Now it's just a matter of strategic patience.
Well of course the facts reported will conflict with your geopolitical fantasy world. But this is nothing unexpected.
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The failed aborted attack was much discussed at the time and it is clear that Israeli jets turned back before entering Iranian airspace after being locked onto by Iranian AD. The ordnance that the Israeli's prematurely dropped before turning tail was found all over neighbouring countries. There is no evidence provided by the Israelis of anything hit, no footage, pictures or anything and what was released was soon identified as old footage from elsewhere.
🤡
"Tehran, IRNA - Supreme Leader of the Islamic Revolution Ayatollah Seyyed Ali Khamenei in a gathering of the families of the recent martyrs of the Air Defense Force said that the martyrdom of these loved ones is an outstanding and important martyrdom due to the defense of the country and the nation in direct confrontation with the Zionist regime.
In the meeting with the families of the martyrs of the Air Defense Force who were martyred in the recent attack of the Zionist regime, the Supreme Leader considered the position of these martyrs to be great"
https://en.irna.ir/news/85648547/Supreme-Leader-meets-families-of-Israeli-attack-martyrs (https://en.irna.ir/news/85648547/Supreme-Leader-meets-families-of-Israeli-attack-martyrs)
"Tehran, SANA- The number of martyrs in the treacherous Israeli aggression that targeted several sites in Iran early Saturday has risen to four, the Iranian army announced.
“Two more soldiers have succumbed to wounds sustained in the Zionist aggression on the territory of the Islamic Republic,” Iranian news agency (IRNA) quoted the army as saying in a statement Saturday."
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🤡
"Tehran, IRNA - Supreme Leader of the Islamic Revolution Ayatollah Seyyed Ali Khamenei in a gathering of the families of the recent martyrs of the Air Defense Force said that the martyrdom of these loved ones is an outstanding and important martyrdom due to the defense of the country and the nation in direct confrontation with the Zionist regime.
In the meeting with the families of the martyrs of the Air Defense Force who were martyred in the recent attack of the Zionist regime, the Supreme Leader considered the position of these martyrs to be great"
https://en.irna.ir/news/85648547/Supreme-Leader-meets-families-of-Israeli-attack-martyrs (https://en.irna.ir/news/85648547/Supreme-Leader-meets-families-of-Israeli-attack-martyrs)
"Tehran, SANA- The number of martyrs in the treacherous Israeli aggression that targeted several sites in Iran early Saturday has risen to four, the Iranian army announced.
“Two more soldiers have succumbed to wounds sustained in the Zionist aggression on the territory of the Islamic Republic,” Iranian news agency (IRNA) quoted the army as saying in a statement Saturday."
The reported and evidenced facts are that the attempted aggression was a huge failure. One A/D installation and four dead is testament to this. The overhyped F35’s turned tail when it became apparent that they weren’t that stealthy when confronting serious air defence and didn’t enter Iranian air space. Your failure to understand the strategic balance and western military shortcomings blinds you and renders your contributions worthles
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The reported and evidenced facts are that the attempted aggression was a huge failure. One A/D installation and four dead is testament to this. The overhyped F35’s turned tail when it became apparent that they weren’t that stealthy when confronting serious air defence and didn’t enter Iranian air space. Your failure to understand the strategic balance and western military shortcomings blinds you and renders your contributions worthles
The fact the Iranians themselves have confirmed military losses from Israeli strikes, failed to shoot down any Israeli jets and backed down from launching a third attack (despite promising to do so) is all the proof you are living in a fantasy world. And all the proof the Israeli objective was met (to deter Iran from doing it again).
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An AI generated response :-[
Steve, the entire response that you gave was AI generated. It is the verbatim script of google AI overview. By googling, "Iran bans IAEA inspectors", the first result is the AI overview which you have simply copy/pasted. I could tell it was AI generated before googling it by the soulless writing and the limited and biased sources that it obviously relied on. AI is extremely limited and no substitute for human intelligence. Anyone can google this and will see your word for word response. This is why you are unable to conduct a proper discussion. You know too little to answer any questions posed to you and lack the intellectual curiosity to better inform yourself. You cannot coherently articulate your own thoughts on the subject because you don't know enough to have your own thoughts, which is why an AI bot can speak for you. You need to ask intelligent questions of anything that you read, question the premise on which an argument is made, do your own fact checking. If you are too intellectually lazy for all of this, Zero Intelligence AI is not an adequate substitute.
The second part of your response is a complete non sequitur. A link to an article about Trump meeting the Saudis and asking them to recognise Israel has nothing to do with the subject being discussed. You were responding to comments regarding IAEA inspections and Iran's supposed nuclear threat. Your responses only demonstrate to anyone reading how far out of your depth you are.
You gave a ten word response and a link. The first four words self evidently untrue, oh and so were the next six and the link had no relevance to the subject matter either. Give it up, you are drowning.
I had no idea the article was AI generated. I quoted something I read. As for Trump, it's relevant because he repeats Iran will not get a nuclear weapon. Quite how this will occur I assume economic pressure will be applied first.
As for being out of my depth, I suggest you revise your comments on all the totalitarian regimes you support before you start casting aspersions on others, or, as Matthew 7:5 puts it:
Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? [5] Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
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The fact the Iranians themselves have confirmed military losses from Israeli strikes, failed to shoot down any Israeli jets and backed down from launching a third attack (despite promising to do so) is all the proof you are living in a fantasy world. And all the proof the Israeli objective was met (to deter Iran from doing it again).
The Iranians didn't shoot down jets because they didn't enter Iranian airspace. Clearly the whole venture was not to take out one A/D (out of 100's). How many jets were involved? Why were their bombs found in neighbouring countries? Why was nothing other than one A/D installation damaged? No Israeli jet entered Iranian airspace and they would have been shot down the moment that they did. There is zero evidence that Israel hit anything other than that 1 AD system/zero evidence of anything else damaged and the whole story is just cope.
You are free to believe that US/Israel can enter Iranian airspace but there is no evidence they have, apart from the 200 million dollar plus US Global Hawk that Iran did shoot down the moment it strayed into Iranian airspace in 2019. There is also the added factor that neighbouring countries have since stated that they will no longer allow their airspace to be used by Israel to attack Iran. If allowing their airspace to be used in future they will be treated as co belligerents and targeted. There is a whole chess game going on, David, diplomatically, militarily, politically and economically which sails over your head. Israel are desperate to drag the US and company into war because without them, their days are numbered. The US, if dragged in, won't save Israel, they will go down with them.
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The Iranians didn't shoot down jets because they didn't enter Iranian airspace. Clearly the whole venture was not to take out one A/D (out of 100's). How many jets were involved? Why were their bombs found in neighbouring countries? Why was nothing other than one A/D installation damaged? No Israeli jet entered Iranian airspace and they would have been shot down the moment that they did. There is zero evidence that Israel hit anything other than that 1 AD system/zero evidence of anything else damaged and the whole story is just cope.
You are free to believe that US/Israel can enter Iranian airspace but there is no evidence they have, apart from the 200 million dollar plus US Global Hawk that Iran did shoot down the moment it strayed into Iranian airspace in 2019. There is also the added factor that neighbouring countries have since stated that they will no longer allow their airspace to be used by Israel to attack Iran. If allowing their airspace to be used in future they will be treated as co belligerents and targeted. There is a whole chess game going on, David, diplomatically, militarily, politically and economically which sails over your head. Israel are desperate to drag the US and company into war because without them, their days are numbered. The US, if dragged in, won't save Israel, they will go down with them.
This is my understanding also. I've been watching a lot of stuff on this..
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This is my understanding also. I've been watching a lot of stuff on this..
Can you send David a link, Roch?, so maybe he can understand too :))
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I had no idea the article was AI generated. I quoted something I read. As for Trump, it's relevant because he repeats Iran will not get a nuclear weapon. Quite how this will occur I assume economic pressure will be applied first.
As for being out of my depth, I suggest you revise your comments on all the totalitarian regimes you support before you start casting aspersions on others, or, as Matthew 7:5 puts it:
Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? [5] Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
The fact that you had no idea the drivel you posted was AI generated merely emphasises your inadequacy. You literally just copy/pasted the first thing that came up on a google search, without accreditation. Sums up the amount of research you do and knowledge you have. You didn't know the author of the nonsense you plagiarised was an AI bot and your discernment is so poor that you couldn't even tell. I just had the misfortune to read it as a supposed reply and it was immediately apparent. If you can't formulate and articulate your own thoughts and instead rely on the first thing that confirms your pre existing bias on a google search, then you are by definition out of your depth in this discussion. At least when David uses AI, he says so and doesn't pass it off without accreditation.
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The fact that you had no idea the drivel you posted was AI generated merely emphasises your inadequacy. You literally just copy/pasted the first thing that came up on a google search, without accreditation. Sums up the amount of research you do and knowledge you have. You didn't know the author of the nonsense you plagiarised was an AI bot and your discernment is so poor that you couldn't even tell. I just had the misfortune to read it as a supposed reply and it was immediately apparent. If you can't formulate and articulate your own thoughts and instead rely on the first thing that confirms your pre existing bias on a google search, then you are by definition out of your depth in this discussion. At least when David uses AI, he says so and doesn't pass it off without accreditation.
I've far more intelligence and imagination than both you and David credit me with, but I'm glad you've found a kindred spirit.
Iranians charged: https://news.sky.com/video/iranian-men-charged-with-spying-offences-in-uk-were-asylum-seekers-13369979
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Can we be clear on why Iran poses a threat to Israel: https://www.timesofisrael.com/khamenei-trump-lies-about-bringing-peace-to-region-israel-a-cancerous-tumor/
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Israel are moving extra air defence systems to their military bases / airports. It's being said they are preparing for strikes against Iran's nuclear facilities. In response, Iran have said they will hold US responsible for any strikes made by Israel. Will this put private pressure on Israel by the US, not to attack Iran? Or do US, Iran and UK think that they can neutralise any retaliatory strikes by Iran, after having studied True Promise 1 & 2?
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Israel are moving extra air defence systems to their military bases / airports. It's being said they are preparing for strikes against Iran's nuclear facilities. In response, Iran have said they will hold US responsible for any strikes made by Israel. Will this put private pressure on Israel by the US, not to attack Iran? Or do US, Iran and UK think that they can neutralise any retaliatory strikes by Iran, after having studied True Promise 1 & 2?
If a strike on Iranian nuclear facilities is attempted, it would be suicidal for Israel and US/NATO presence in West Asia. I suspect that the Zionists believe that an Israeli attack would drag the US in. It is after all Israel's only hope of survival and the window of time/opportunity closes with each passing day. Time is on the side of Iran and the enemy of Israel. The current psychopathic belligerence of the Israeli leadership is informed by this simple equation, in my opinion Roch.
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If a strike on Iranian nuclear facilities is attempted, it would be suicidal for Israel and US/NATO presence in West Asia. I suspect that the Zionists believe that an Israeli attack would drag the US in. It is after all Israel's only hope of survival and the window of time/opportunity closes with each passing day. Time is on the side of Iran and the enemy of Israel. The current psychopathic belligerence of the Israeli leadership is informed by this simple equation, in my opinion Roch.
Surely though the US / Israel / UK are fully aware of Iran's potential capabilities?
True Promise I and II will have been studied to the 9th degree. In addition, Israel's partial success in its response to True Promise II will have been studied in the same vein.
There must be a reason (or several reasons) why Israel thinks it could ride out a serious Iranian response. There is something hidden in all this?
I suppose you are right in some respects. Given Iran has said that it will blame the US for any attack by Israel - are the Israelis hoping for US bases to be targeted? But that seems too obvious? Iran has indicated that they do not believe that Israel could carry out strikes without US assistance. Maybe it's just case of this? Iran cannot be fooled by Trump's distancing from Netenyahu.
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Is Netenyahu now depending upon hawks and neocons who are at odds with Trump? Such people might want US bases attacked, because they want war with Iran?
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Surely though the US / Israel / UK are fully aware of Iran's potential capabilities?
True Promise I and II will have been studied to the 9th degree. In addition, Israel's partial success in its response to True Promise II will have been studied in the same vein.
There must be a reason (or several reasons) why Israel thinks it could ride out a serious Iranian response. There is something hidden in all this?
I suppose you are right in some respects. Given Iran has said that it will blame the US for any attack by Israel - are the Israelis hoping for US bases to be targeted? But that seems too obvious? Iran has indicated that they do not believe that Israel could carry out strikes without US assistance. Maybe it's just case of this? Iran cannot be fooled by Trump's distancing from Netenyahu.
I would venture that much more was learnt by Iran than Israel and its sponsors from TP I and II, Roch. It seems reasonable to infer from what is known that the True Promise operations were successful intel gathering operations by the Iranians. Israel was made to expose its defences, while Iran didn't really need to display anywhere near their full capabilities. The partial demonstration that Iran did display proved immune to any Israel/US/UK countermeasures. Iran gathered lots of useful intelligence by launching an attack large enough that Israel had to defend(giving away their capabilities) whilst using mostly slow drones and older missiles(which revealed little of Iran's capabilities). They also made sure to give a hint of those still hidden threats by sending enough precise, non defendable missiles directly hitting Israeli bases. The implied further threat is obvious. I'm not sure what useful intel could be gathered by Israel/US from these operations other than the summary above.
As you suggest when stating that "Iran cannot be fooled by Trump's distancing from Netanyahu", I think Iranian leadership see through this pretend "distancing". The main, not really hidden, reason that this attack is supposedly being planned is because of a concept touched upon some time ago on here, Roch. Israel/UK/US are in zugzwang. There are no hidden reasons, capabilities up the sleeve of Empire; they simply have no move that doesn't put them at a "serious disadvantage".
What we are witnessing is panic and desperation, there is no cunning plan.
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I would venture that much more was learnt by Iran than Israel and its sponsors from TP I and II, Roch. It seems reasonable to infer from what is known that the True Promise operations were successful intel gathering operations by the Iranians. Israel was made to expose its defences, while Iran didn't really need to display anywhere near their full capabilities. The partial demonstration that Iran did display proved immune to any Israel/US/UK countermeasures. Iran gathered lots of useful intelligence by launching an attack large enough that Israel had to defend(giving away their capabilities) whilst using mostly slow drones and older missiles(which revealed little of Iran's capabilities). They also made sure to give a hint of those still hidden threats by sending enough precise, non defendable missiles directly hitting Israeli bases. The implied further threat is obvious. I'm not sure what useful intel could be gathered by Israel/US from these operations other than the summary above.
As you suggest when stating that "Iran cannot be fooled by Trump's distancing from Netanyahu", I think Iranian leadership see through this pretend "distancing". The main, not really hidden, reason that this attack is supposedly being planned is because of a concept touched upon some time ago on here, Roch. Israel/UK/US are in zugzwang. There are no hidden reasons, capabilities up the sleeve of Empire; they simply have no move that doesn't put them at a "serious disadvantage".
What we are witnessing is panic and desperation, there is no cunning plan.
I worry that Netanyahu and his fanatical supremacist props in the cabinet will use nuclear weapons. There is a real danger they will in my view. The danger is now so great that serious action is needed to neutralise this out of control criminal state.
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I worry that Netanyahu and his fanatical supremacist props in the cabinet will use nuclear weapons. There is a real danger they will in my view. The danger is now so great that serious action is needed to neutralise this out of control criminal state.
So many of their population are crazy, advocating for Gazan's offspring to also be killed. I honestly don't know how it's taken so long some people to click on to it. If ever anyone had any doubts about the 'genocide', just listen to their own people and politicians. They are living in a bubble of their own creation, in which their own twisted rationale is truly believed by them. They have no doubts. Obviously I'm not referring to to every Israeli. But even the ones who view the current cabinet as nutcase have still defended the massacre .
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So many of their population are crazy, advocating for Gazan's offspring to also be killed. I honestly don't know how it's taken so long some people to click on to it. If ever anyone had any doubts about the 'genocide', just listen to their own people and politicians. They are living in a bubble of their own creation, in which their own twisted rationale is truly believed by them. They have no doubts. Obviously I'm not referring to to every Israeli. But even the ones who view the current cabinet as nutcase have still defended the massacre .
I agree. Some of the foaming at the mouth Zionists in the Netanyahu cabinet are reminiscent of Julius Streicher in Germany in the 1930s. They believe that the Jews are God's chosen race and anything done to the "untermenschen" is of no consequence. I am really fed up with people like Steve referencing the holocaust as justification for what these murderous scumbags are doing. There can never be justification for this venal conduct and those who are silent, or even worse supportive, will be judged harshly in future. I believe they will reap what they sow. Evil like this cannot continue.
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I worry that Netanyahu and his fanatical supremacist props in the cabinet will use nuclear weapons. There is a real danger they will in my view. The danger is now so great that serious action is needed to neutralise this out of control criminal state.
So many of their population are crazy, advocating for Gazan's offspring to also be killed. I honestly don't know how it's taken so long some people to click on to it. If ever anyone had any doubts about the 'genocide', just listen to their own people and politicians. They are living in a bubble of their own creation, in which their own twisted rationale is truly believed by them. They have no doubts. Obviously I'm not referring to to every Israeli. But even the ones who view the current cabinet as nutcase have still defended the massacre .
Why do you think that Western politicians and media etc. also inhabit the same bubble as the Israelis? Why do they pretend not to see the daily massacres and atrocities of the Israelis? Why do our governments carry on aiding the massacre materially? They can see what the rest of the world can see. How compromised/blackmailed must some of these people be?
We are certainly in very dark and dangerous times and escalation does seem to be imminent. Will the US/UK/France et al openly enter to protect Israel? That would be a hard sell to a public repulsed by the genocidal criminality of Israel and would probably lead to civil unrest in those countries. Any military foolish enough to be dragged into a war with Iran will inevitably face massive losses and be massively weakened by such a misadventure, at best. The Israelis and their sponsors are desperate with no good options, leaving only bad ones.
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I worry that Netanyahu and his fanatical supremacist props in the cabinet will use nuclear weapons. There is a real danger they will in my view. The danger is now so great that serious action is needed to neutralise this out of control criminal state.
In other news, the Guardian highlights a letter to Sir Keir Starmer, external from more than 800 leading lawyers urging the UK to put sanctions on Israel.
One of the signatories, Professor Guy Goodwin-Gill of Oxford University, is quoted as saying "now is the time for the UK to show its commitment to the rule of law".
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I worry that Netanyahu and his fanatical supremacist props in the cabinet will use nuclear weapons. There is a real danger they will in my view. The danger is now so great that serious action is needed to neutralise this out of control criminal state.
It's fighting for its very existence, fighting for Western values, and it will prevail against a state bent on Israel's destruction. https://www.jns.org/khamenei-israel-a-cancerous-tumor-that-will-be-uprooted/
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Surely though the US / Israel / UK are fully aware of Iran's potential capabilities?
True Promise I and II will have been studied to the 9th degree. In addition, Israel's partial success in its response to True Promise II will have been studied in the same vein.
There must be a reason (or several reasons) why Israel thinks it could ride out a serious Iranian response. There is something hidden in all this?
I suppose you are right in some respects. Given Iran has said that it will blame the US for any attack by Israel - are the Israelis hoping for US bases to be targeted? But that seems too obvious? Iran has indicated that they do not believe that Israel could carry out strikes without US assistance. Maybe it's just case of this? Iran cannot be fooled by Trump's distancing from Netenyahu.
https://www.c-span.org/clip/news-conference/user-clip-known-knowns/4525194
Warmonger Donald Rumsfeld, in 2002, talking about, "known knowns, known unknowns and unknown unknowns". The appearance is that US/UK are aware and fearful of what the "known unknowns" and especially the "unknown unknowns" might be. The US/UK/Israel, aren't fully aware of Iran's capabilities but they are aware that Iran have capabilities that they have no intelligence about.
Iran have deliberately kept capabilities under wraps whilst simultaneously advertising that those capabilities exist, and also forced US/UK/Israel to reveal most(all?) of their defence capabilities. Iran probably has all the intel needed to destroy and bypass Israel's air defence completely should matters go hot. I think that this is the problem Empire faces, Roch.
It appears that Empire doesn't even have an answer to the "known, knowns" of Iran.
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Mohammed Sinwar killed: https://youtu.be/hsnu07lK4K8
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It's fighting for its very existence, fighting for Western values, and it will prevail against a state bent on Israel's destruction. https://www.jns.org/khamenei-israel-a-cancerous-tumor-that-will-be-uprooted/
Its existence wouldn't be under threat in the first place if it wasn't run by a bunch of twats, with support from millions of twats among their population.
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Its existence wouldn't be under threat in the first place if it wasn't run by a bunch of twats, with support from millions of twats among their population.
If they were all as you claim Israel would have disappeared from the map a long time since.
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Can we be clear on why Iran poses a threat to Israel: https://www.timesofisrael.com/khamenei-trump-lies-about-bringing-peace-to-region-israel-a-cancerous-tumor/
It looks like there will be a confrontation: https://www.jns.org/khamenei-rejects-us-uranium-enrichment-demands/?utm_campaign=Daily%20Syndicate%20Emails&utm_medium=email&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-_syB3wPHQg79kohqzEls6HWDDyi4-Xk_Z1BxcGoQamAMvMsXMuCDfnr6TUwPxeUaAm0ENLGwhjVuEm9IOpaQxW94qwrPfkXVa73BswK6IvcmVGASY&_hsmi=110826731&utm_content=110826731&utm_source=hs_email
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https://x.com/SuppressedNws/status/1933315257142808739
Israel attacking Iran now. Retaliation is certain to be huge
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Its existence wouldn't be under threat in the first place if it wasn't run by a bunch of twats, with support from millions of twats among their population.
The "twats" are attempting to start WW3 right now. Bombing raid into Iran, surely a desperate Hail Mary to drag USA in.
https://x.com/DD_Geopolitics/status/1933314965412458769
The world stands with Iran. Israel and their western sponsors becoming more fractured and isolated daily. If Iran obliterates Israel, no-one will mourn.
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Looks like they may have targeted scientists or officials.
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Looks like they may have targeted scientists or officials.
Yes looks like. Watching it unfold now. Reported that Iran have launched back and Israel claiming today is the start of a "longer operation". State of emergency declared in Iran and Israel. US claiming no involvement.
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Looks like they may have targeted scientists or officials.
https://x.com/X_Informer_X/status/1933321853579444405
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Yes looks like. Watching it unfold now. Reported that Iran have launched back and Israel claiming today is the start of a "longer operation". State of emergency declared in Iran and Israel. US claiming no involvement.
Expect a Zionist "false flag" attack on a US base or Carrier as the excuse for US involvement. They are all in now.
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https://x.com/SuppressedNws/status/1933315257142808739
Israel attacking Iran now. Retaliation is certain to be huge
They have turned into a Rogue State Gringo, they’re undefendable now.
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Looks like US are complicit. I hope Iran can stay strong.
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Everyone who matters understands the price of attacking Iran is way too high. You either don’t or choose not to but there will be no direct attack on Iran.
Israel couldn’t strike Iranian launch sites. How will they do this? You do know the distance between Iran and Israel, I take it. Iran’s sites are buried underground and in mountains. Israel have no ground based missile capability that could reach Iran, never mind take out their launch sites. Israeli planes can’t reach Iran without refuelling, airspace closed off to them.
🤡
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They have turned into a Rogue State Gringo, they’re undefendable now.
Trump's idiotic statement makes clear that Israel/US/UK et al are nothing but gangsters.
https://x.com/WhiteHouse/status/1933482192266801160
A crude shakedown and there are those who still blindly cheer on "their side" despite the psychopathic criminality.
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Trump's idiotic statement makes clear that Israel/US/UK et al are nothing but gangsters.
https://x.com/WhiteHouse/status/1933482192266801160
A crude shakedown and there are those who still blindly cheer on "their side" despite the psychopathic criminality.
It's a terrible statement.
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Looks like US are complicit. I hope Iran can stay strong.
BBC News no better. It should be clear to everyone now that all Western governments are captured by a criminal cabal. None of their actions benefit the public they supposedly serve but do advance and serve the interests of certain corporate and financial interests. The increased aggression and determination to start WW3 is to save their own traitorous, corrupt arses and this is apparent to all now.
BBC just acting as straight up apologists for criminal aggression.
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It's a terrible statement.
This is all going to end very badly.
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It's a terrible statement.
International diplomacy- Godfather style.
It seems that Iranian AD was attacked from within by kamikaze drones, smuggled in and launched with AD crew assassinated by commandos according to reports. This does chime with the initial reporting late last night. Explosions were heard in and around Tehran of unknown source. Israeli bombing had apparently not started then. It is similar to the attempt on Russia's strategic bombers some days ago. They also were co-ordinated with targeted killings.
"Israeli media has quoted security officials as saying that three coordinated operations formed the basis of its attack on Iran overnight.
1. Commando teams sent into Iran
Special Mossad units entered Iran to deploy precision-guided weapons, in open areas near the location of Iranian surface-to-air missile systems. As the Israeli Air Force launched its air strikes, these were activated and precision strikes were launched simultaneously.
2. Strike systems planted in civilian vehicles
Mossad covertly planted attack technologies in civilian vehicles across Iran. When the operation commenced, these launched powerful munitions at their assigned targets.
3. Covert drone base established inside Iran
Mossad established a secret base of explosive-laden drones in the heart of Iran, smuggling them in long before the strike. During the overnight attack, these were activated and launched at Iranian surface-to-surface missile launchers.
An Israeli security source told Israel National News that the plIsraeli media has quoted security officials as saying that three coordinated operations formed the basis of its attack on Iran overnight.
1. Commando teams sent into Iran
Special Mossad units entered Iran to deploy precision-guided weapons, in open areas near the location of Iranian surface-to-air missile systems. As the Israeli Air Force launched its air strikes, these were activated and precision strikes were launched simultaneously.
2. Strike systems planted in civilian vehicles
Mossad covertly planted attack technologies in civilian vehicles across Iran. When the operation commenced, these launched powerful munitions at their assigned targets.
3. Covert drone base established inside Iran
Mossad established a secret base of explosive-laden drones in the heart of Iran, smuggling them in long before the strike. During the overnight attack, these were activated and launched at Iranian surface-to-surface missile launchers.
An Israeli security source told Israel National News that the plans were 'years in the making."
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"Israel is shutting its embassies around the world and has urged citizens to stay alert and not display Jewish or Israeli symbols in public places, statements posted on embassy websites said on Friday after Israel launched large-scale attacks on Iran.
The statements said Israel would not be providing consular services and urged citizens to cooperate with local security services if faced with hostile activity."
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/israel-shuts-global-embassies-after-attack-iran-2025-06-13/
What on earth are they planning that they expect Jews worldwide to face hostility?
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🤡
David, you really ought to join in the grown up conversation. The assertions are based on the assumption that we are dealing with rational actors. The reason that Iran "can't" be attacked is because a rational actor understands that this leads to a suicidal confrontation and likely WW3. Have you ever watched War Games. This is a demonstration of the previously discussed "zugzwang" that the West and Israel are in. They are now resorting to straight up nuclear blackmail in their desperation to prevent their loss of hegemony.
Grow up, stop acting as cheerleader for psychopatic warmongers. You understand that Western governments are acting not on behalf of their public by this stage, David. The evil and malevolence is in your face and your continued refusal to see it, or at least pretend not to, is a poor reflection.
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What a waste of national resources on both sides. The proximity between these two countries make a meaningful victory for either, both practically and financially impossible.
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"Israel is shutting its embassies around the world and has urged citizens to stay alert and not display Jewish or Israeli symbols in public places, statements posted on embassy websites said on Friday after Israel launched large-scale attacks on Iran.
The statements said Israel would not be providing consular services and urged citizens to cooperate with local security services if faced with hostile activity."
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/israel-shuts-global-embassies-after-attack-iran-2025-06-13/
What on earth are they planning that they expect Jews worldwide to face hostility?
..and what on earth did Hamas plan on October 7, 2023 that they knew wouldn't involve reprisals?
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..and what on earth did Hamas plan on October 7, 2023 that they knew wouldn't involve reprisals?
So there was nothing done by Israel prior to October 7th?
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It looks like Iran made a huge mistake by not carrying out True Promise III soon after the previous Iranian strike.
Now I think Iran is a busted flush. The Americans and Israelis have been hard at work for a year, while Iran has been posting videos of missile caves.
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..and what on earth did Hamas plan on October 7, 2023 that they knew wouldn't involve reprisals?
You mean reprisals like the ones by the Nazis against civilians in response to partisan actions of resistance?
Like Lidice after the assassination of Heydrich?
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Trump says "he gave Iran a 60-day ultimatum: Today is day 61"
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Trump says "he gave Iran a 60-day ultimatum: Today is day 61"
He's a callous snake. But I have to hand it Israel. They have played a blinder. I'm gutted.
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So there was nothing done by Israel prior to October 7th?
No. Israel was legitimized by a United Nations vote on November 29, 1947: https://www.britannica.com/topic/United-Nations-Resolution-181
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You mean reprisals like the ones by the Nazis against civilians in response to partisan actions of resistance?
Like Lidice after the assassination of Heydrich?
Well, at least you've now understood Israel is at war, which is a start.
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No. Israel was legitimized by a United Nations vote on November 29, 1947: https://www.britannica.com/topic/United-Nations-Resolution-181
So there was no murders of Palestinian children prior to October 7th
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Looks like US are complicit. I hope Iran can stay strong.
So it can continue to intimidate its citizens abroad? https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/bbc-staff-in-london-say-their-families-are-being-terrorised-and-punished-by-iranian-regime/ar-AA1G3WKL?ocid=msedgntp&pc=U531&cvid=64fb45a30a9342679fda6a3357082afa&ei=12
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Tel Aviv getting hit now
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So it can continue to intimidate its citizens abroad? https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/bbc-staff-in-london-say-their-families-are-being-terrorised-and-punished-by-iranian-regime/ar-AA1G3WKL?ocid=msedgntp&pc=U531&cvid=64fb45a30a9342679fda6a3357082afa&ei=12
Have you seen how Israel treats it's own citizens? Hockling on Christians. Shelling houses Hannibal directive.
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Israeli defence ministry struck. More missiles incoming
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Two Israeli jets downed in Iran. Search on for pilots
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Pilots captured , one female. Second salvo hitting Israel now, reportedly much bigger than the first. Skies over Israel are full of Iranian missiles
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Reports that Dimona has been hit
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Tel Aviv getting hit now
Iranian ballistic missiles have struck Tel Aviv as Tehran launched its retaliation against Israel.
Dozens of missiles were targeted at Israel’s largest city and other sites in the country in what the IDF said was an attack on civilians. Footage showed at least one high-rise building badly damaged in the city centre. It was not immediately clear whether it had taken a direct hit.
Israel said there were at least five casualties in what would amount to a serious escalation. Iran has not previously aimed missiles at civilian areas.
“Iran has crossed red lines by daring to fire missiles at civilian population centres in Israel,” Israel Katz, Israel’s defence minister, said in a statement. “We will continue to defend the citizens of Israel and ensure that the ayatollah regime pays a very heavy price for its heinous actions.”
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“Iran has crossed red lines by daring to fire missiles at civilian population centres in Israel,” Israel Katz, Israel’s defence minister, said in a statement. “We will continue to defend the citizens of Israel and ensure that the ayatollah regime pays a very heavy price for its heinous actions.”
Do you not see the irony in this?
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Do you not see the irony in this?
Iran are striking military targets. Steve and his sources are using the "Israeli defence"- accuse others of your own crimes,
Iran's targets;
"An Israeli noted yesterday:
The code name you are looking for is 'HaKirya'. Israel's most heavily defended, most central military base, where IDF command and strategic planning of the Israeli security state is being carried out - at the heart of Tel Aviv.
If/when HaKirya is seriously damaged, then we'll know with 100% certainty this is the real war, the one to the end, and the Iranians are not holding back anymore + are capable of strategically damaging Israel's war apparatus.
If you see or hear 'HaKirya' in news reports, know that, without any doubt, no games are involved in this anymore"
https://x.com/zei_squirrel/status/1933594433175335156
Kirya is destroyed
https://x.com/SowetoMthembu/status/1933636907809886678
https://x.com/AdHaque110/status/1933637112034918575
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Do you not see the irony in this?
You took the words out of my mouth.
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Do you not see the irony in this?
Do you mean that the IDF is not allowed to target Hamas because it happened to entrench itself under school and hospital buildings?
I'm not minimizing the seriousness of the situation.
From nuclear scientist Bahram Ghiassee:
Israel has embarked on a perilous path to dismantling Iran’s nuclear programme, and has launched direct aerial attacks on one of the key uranium enrichment sites located in Natanz. These facilities are built just a few meters underground, and are thus vulnerable to missile attacks and aerial bombardments.
A number of prominent nuclear scientists were also killed in the attacks, including a former head of Iran’s Atomic Energy Organisation. The attacks constitute a major warning to the Islamic Republic to curb its nuclear activities.
Iran, over the past six decades, has acquired a highly advanced and encompassing nuclear programme, including Uranium Enrichment Plants, the Heavy Water Plant, and Heavy-Water research reactors. The dual use nature of nuclear technology is well established, and Israel’s concerns about nuclear proliferation have provided them the impetus to attack Iran’s critical infrastructure – including nuclear facilities.
It is most likely that Israel, as part of the “Operation Rising Lion”, will attack other nuclear sites in the subsequent phase of its aerial military campaign. It may target the highly advanced facilities at Esfahan Nuclear Technology Centre and also the Esfahan Nuclear Research Centre, in particular the Uranium Conversion Facility, where uranium concentrate is converted to uranium hexafluoride gas, as feed for centrifuges to enrich uranium.
The Heavy Water Plant at Arak could also be a potential target for attack, as the key components of the plant are tall columns built in the open. In the event of an all-out strike, the research reactor in Tehran could be targeted, as it is vulnerable to drone, missile, and aerial strikes.
The Fordow Uranium Enrichment Facility, built some 60 meters inside a mountain, is designed not to be vulnerable to attacks by drones, rockets, missiles, or the U.S. Bunker Busting bombs. However, its external (offsite) electricity supply, cooling water supply, and air supply systems are highly vulnerable. Uranium has been enriched to 83.7 per cent at Fordow, which is comparable to the 80 per cent enriched uranium contained in the Hiroshima atomic bomb.
It is unlikely that the Bushehr Nuclear Power Plant would come under attack, as such plants are designed and constructed to withstand aerial attacks. However, external power supplies and cooling water systems are regarded as soft targets, and highly vulnerable to drone and missile strikes.
Extensive damage to the plant could lead to a Fukushima-like accident, and release of significant quantities of radioactivity into the marine environment of the Persian Gulf. This could lead to the extensive contamination of the ecological systems and disruption of shipping operations. It could also affect oil and gas production and the supply of water to some of the Arab States in the Persian Gulf.
Moreover, Russian personnel may be present at the plant, and any harm to them would constitute a major escalation of the conflict which Israel, under the circumstances, would not wish to provoke.
Should Israel decide to launch further direct attacks, it is likely that it would also target critical infrastructure adjacent to nuclear facilities, including fossil-fuelled power stations, electricity grids, and cooling water supplies. Destruction of critical infrastructure could lead to extensive damage to nuclear facilities and their normal operations.
Iran, in the event of an all-out attack on its nuclear facilities, could take retaliatory action by striking Israel’s nuclear research centres. Iran’s recent aerial attack on Israel has demonstrated its military capabilities and its ability to escalate the conflict. Iran could heighten the hostilities yet further by attacking Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, and the United Arab Emirates: these countries have normalised diplomatic relations with Israel and host US military bases. The US could thus become directly involved in the conflict.
It is imperative that concerted diplomatic efforts are instituted to prevent further escalation of the conflict, and to restore peace, security and stability in this highly turbulent region. Diplomacy and dialogue must prevail.
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Do you mean that the IDF is not allowed to target Hamas because it happened to entrench itself under school and hospital buildings?
Israel is getting a taste of its own medicine tonight, Steve. List of targets hit so far,
"The commander of the IRGC, Major General Ahmad Vahidi, has announced the targets that have been struck so far:
🔻 Nevatim Airbase
🔻 F-35, F-16, and F-15 fighter jets
🔻 Heavy fuel tankers
🔻 Command and control centers
🔻 Electronic warfare centers
🔻 Ministry of War"
Iran have stated the retaliation will continue.
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Israel is getting a taste of its own medicine tonight, Steve. List of targets hit so far,
"The commander of the IRGC, Major General Ahmad Vahidi, has announced the targets that have been struck so far:
🔻 Nevatim Airbase
🔻 F-35, F-16, and F-15 fighter jets
🔻 Heavy fuel tankers
🔻 Command and control centers
🔻 Electronic warfare centers
🔻 Ministry of War"
Iran have stated the retaliation will continue.
Israel has been at war since 1948.
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Iranian ballistic missiles have struck Tel Aviv as Tehran launched its retaliation against Israel.
Dozens of missiles were targeted at Israel’s largest city and other sites in the country in what the IDF said was an attack on civilians. Footage showed at least one high-rise building badly damaged in the city centre. It was not immediately clear whether it had taken a direct hit.
Israel said there were at least five casualties in what would amount to a serious escalation. Iran has not previously aimed missiles at civilian areas.
“Iran has crossed red lines by daring to fire missiles at civilian population centres in Israel,” Israel Katz, Israel’s defence minister, said in a statement. “We will continue to defend the citizens of Israel and ensure that the ayatollah regime pays a very heavy price for its heinous actions.”
Israel’s military is killing Palestinians at an average rate of 250 people a day which exceeds the daily death toll of any other major conflict of recent years, Oxfam said today, as the escalation of hostilities nears its 100th day.
Sally Abi Khalil, Oxfam’s Middle East Director, said: “The scale and atrocities that Israel is visiting upon Gaza are truly shocking. For 100 days the people of Gaza have endured a living hell. Nowhere is safe and the entire population is at risk of famine.
“It is unimaginable that the international community is watching the deadliest rate of conflict of the 21st century unfold, while continuously blocking calls for a ceasefire.”
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Israel has been at war since 1948.
Take a leaf out of Miriam's book Steve..
https://www.facebook.com/share/r/16esJo51ur/
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Good to see Hugo Bachega back :-*
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/videos/c3rpg2qj377o
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Good to see Hugo Bachega back :-*
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/videos/c3rpg2qj377o
More from Hugo:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/videos/c1kv9ejy10yo
:-*
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Not sure how long the Iranians can keep this up. Will they run out of rocket fuel and will their personnel become exhausted?
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Not sure how long the Iranians can keep this up. Will they run out of rocket fuel and will their personnel become exhausted?
How large is their weapons stock pile?. Does Israel have sufficient stocks to maintain the dome?
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Israel has been at war since 1948.
Exactly. Israel was born from a war of terror, has waged a war of terror ever since and it will be its demise.
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Not sure how long the Iranians can keep this up. Will they run out of rocket fuel and will their personnel become exhausted?
If it comes to attrition, Roch, there is only one winner. Iran produces its own rocket fuel and rockets/missiles/drones. Israel is reliant on external help which is much more problematical logistically in a longer war. I would also venture that Israeli troop morale will be exhausted before Iran.
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If it comes to attrition, Roch, there is only one winner. Iran produces its own rocket fuel and rockets/missiles/drones. Israel is reliant on external help which is much more problematical logistically in a longer war. I would also venture that Israeli troop morale will be exhausted before Iran.
Why did Iran target civilian population centres and not Israeli military sites?
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Western military doctrine is obsolete and its obsolescence is being demonstrated. Based as it is on dominant Naval and Air power, it becomes obsolete if those are neutralised. NATO, the West have put all of their eggs in one basket. Whilst this doctrine is effective in throwing some barely defended small country against the wall every now and then, it is apparent that the West has no effective contingency plan when faced with a peer, near peer rival who can effectively neutralise their air and naval power. This has, in my view, been long apparent.
Iran have already taken down 2 F35's plus a f16 and f15. They still have escalation left.
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Why did Iran target civilian population centres and not Israeli military sites?
They did target military sites. Now ask the same question about Israel
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Israel will intensify attacks on Iran in the coming days, Benjamin Netanyahu has warned.
“We will hit every site and every target of the Ayatollahs’ regime and what they have felt so far is nothing compared with what they will be handed in the coming days,” the Israeli Prime Minister said in a new video message.
He suggested that Israeli forces would strike Natanz Nuclear Facility again as it looked to destroy Iran’s ability to manufacture nuclear weapons.
He added: “We have dealt a very severe blow to Iran’s main enrichment site and if necessary we will also hit it again.
“There is a huge threat from ballistic missiles, we have taken action to destroy Iran’s ballistic missile production capabilities.”
The escalation comes after Iran launched a wave of retaliatory missile strikes at Israel less than a day after the IDF’s surprise attack on Friday morning.
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Netanyahu has fled Israel, Steve. He has deliberately lit the fuse for WW3 and left the country. Quoting Netanyahu is quoting the devil himself.
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Netanyahu has fled Israel, Steve. He has deliberately lit the fuse for WW3 and left the country. Quoting Netanyahu is quoting the devil himself.
I don't know about that. Given the history of the Jewish people and the unrelenting persecution they have endured, how are they supposed to react to the following statement? https://www.timesofisrael.com/khamenei-trump-lies-about-bringing-peace-to-region-israel-a-cancerous-tumor/
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He's a callous snake. But I have to hand it Israel. They have played a blinder. I'm gutted.
Everyone knows the Iranian military is mediocre. It only seems like a blinder to you because you have payed attention to Gringos military fantasy world.
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Everyone knows the Iranian military is mediocre. It only seems like a blinder to you because you have payed attention to Gringos military fantasy world.
Leaving aside the poor orthography for one moment, I would underestimate Iran's military at my peril. https://news.sky.com/story/what-are-irans-military-capabilities-and-where-could-it-strike-13115958
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Everyone knows the Iranian military is mediocre. It only seems like a blinder to you because you have payed attention to Gringos military fantasy world.
No, I just think USA are sly as *****. Israel are impressive militarily but a lot of it is due to US support.
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Everyone knows the Iranian military is mediocre. It only seems like a blinder to you because you have payed attention to Gringos military fantasy world.
David, firstly you have read Roch's post entirely wrong. Roch was saying the Israeli military played a blinder. Secondly, Iranian military are much stronger than the piss weak IDF, who need assistance from US, UK, France, Germany etc. and are still getting their arses kicked by the Iranians. Israeli media already reporting that Israel have asked US for assistance. Israel is tiny and not defendable as Iran are currently demonstrating. Iran is massive and able to spread vital facilities and infrastructure far and wide and because of its geography, it is almost impossible to invade. Iran's missile and AD tech is demonstrating its superiority to overpriced, over-hyped western junk. Iran would survive and rebuild after any attacks, no matter the destruction. Israel won't and you understand this really.
Israeli military understand perfectly well that they couldn't possibly handle Iran. They are desperate to drag US/UK and company in. It is only you who is still harbouring the illusion that Iranian military is mediocre. You will be disabused of this fantasy shortly. They are currently making a mess of Israeli capabilities and show no sign of let up. And Israeli AD appears to have left the chat
https://x.com/IranObserver0/status/1934000529027600444
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BBC "News :-[" currently reporting that UK are sending jets to Israel to help. UK government are clearly and by any measure escalating and bringing the UK public under threat by their aggressive posturing in conflicts which are not really the concern of the UK public. We are not being attacked and shouldn't be poking our noses in conflicts everywhere and anywhere, especially with such puny Armed Forces. UK public do not support any of this aggressive military posturing.
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The genociders are claiming they have control of Iran's air space. Meanwhile we are sending planes to middle east that could be used for refuelling? Not good.
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The genociders are claiming they have control of Iran's air space. Meanwhile we are sending planes to middle east that could be used for refuelling? Not good.
Do you believe this, Roch? They don't even control the air space above Tel Aviv.
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Do you believe this, Roch? They don't even control the air space above Tel Aviv.
How do you think this will play out now gringo? It is difficult to get a clear picture of what is going on from MSM.
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Do you believe this, Roch? They don't even control the air space above Tel Aviv.
They claim to have struck 30% of Iran's surface to surface missile launchers. I know Iran put some decoy launchers out, to draw Israeli fire. But if it is losing a large amount of launchers, then the Iranian threat over the skies of Israel will diminish. And it's all they have. It's virtually their entire strategy.
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The Israeli air force have just bombed the Iranian state TV headquarters.
https://www.msn.com/en-in/money/topstories/iranian-state-tv-headquarters-struck-anchor-forced-to-take-cover-during-live-broadcast-watch/ar-AA1GP37d?ocid=BingNewsSerp (https://www.msn.com/en-in/money/topstories/iranian-state-tv-headquarters-struck-anchor-forced-to-take-cover-during-live-broadcast-watch/ar-AA1GP37d?ocid=BingNewsSerp)
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The Israeli air force have just bombed the Iranian state TV headquarters.
https://www.msn.com/en-in/money/topstories/iranian-state-tv-headquarters-struck-anchor-forced-to-take-cover-during-live-broadcast-watch/ar-AA1GP37d?ocid=BingNewsSerp (https://www.msn.com/en-in/money/topstories/iranian-state-tv-headquarters-struck-anchor-forced-to-take-cover-during-live-broadcast-watch/ar-AA1GP37d?ocid=BingNewsSerp)
As usual for Israel they have targeted civilians. Several have been killed.
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As usual for Israel they have targeted civilians. Several have been killed.
And what do you think this is..Scotch mist? https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/410098
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As usual for Israel they have targeted civilians. Several have been killed.
They are trying to spur a revolt against the Ayatollah. Hence its called operation rising lion as depicted in the historic Persian flag.
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They are trying to spur a revolt against the Ayatollah. Hence its called operation rising lion as depicted in the historic Persian flag.
I think most sane people in the world believe the regime change efforts are in the wrong direction.
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How do you think this will play out now gringo? It is difficult to get a clear picture of what is going on from MSM.
Hopefully, the leadership of the collective West (or their puppeteers, more accurately), understand the position they are in, negotiate from the position of reality and accept a more diminished role in the win/win multi polar world that is being built. The West/Israel have nothing left in the escalation ladder except for the unthinkable nuclear option. For reasons too obvious to state, it isn't an option that is available unless they have a collective death wish. Not that there would be any "winners" but Western countries are the least equipped/prepared for this doomsday scenario and would be least likely to be able to rebuild in a few generations.
Israel/the West have lost the wider war and that is plain to see, the downside being that they still have the means to upend the board for all. Hopefully (that word again) they take the only rational path although it is unclear if they are rational actors. Rational for the terms of this discussion being a relative term, ngb, as none of Israeli/Western provocations are rational but we can all agree that inviting nuclear armageddon is a much higher step of irrationality than the provocations thus far.
Working from the assumption that enough rationality exists within the decision making corridors of the collective West to save their own skins, then Israel/the West simply have to climb down, recognise their weak position in any negotiations and accept the diminished role in the now unstoppable new multi polar world order. It is in the interests of Iran/China/Russia to make sure that the countries that make up the Collective West(US/UK/EU/G7/NATO) are not humiliated and negotiations are not used to bludgeon them. That invites the irrational response which is not a win for Iran et al either.
In the longer term, should the above come to pass, there would undoubtedly be at least a reconstituted UN giving more power to currently unrepresented Global South or a new organisation entirely. The charter of the UN as it stands is agreed by the world majority, but the West trample over this with their unbalanced control of the main mechanism of the UN, and only one with real clout, the Security Council where they hold 3 of only 5 permanent seats, the only seats with veto power. This control that the West (Israel's sponsors) currently have will not be allowed to continue. The international finance and banking system will also be re-ordered via a new "Bretton Woods" style agreement which will, by definition, take away the West's preferred tool of economic warfare. Namely the illegal, under the UN charter, sanctions that they impose at will through their control of world financial systems and then enforce via the "purely a defensive alliance ::) :-[", NATO.
A comment my father made many years ago has always stuck with me, which is both profound and succinct. "Israel can only lose once".
Yossi Melman @yossi_melman - 5:50 UTC · Jun 15, 2025
"The euphoria was brief. On Friday morning, I asked if it was even necessary to start a war with the Iranians. Shiites are historically willing to suffer. I mentioned their willingness to sacrifice as demonstrated in the 8 years of attrition with Iraq. I recommend that we cut our losses. Ask Trump to stop the scramble for a reasonable agreement. Otherwise, we'll end up begging for a cease-fire and Iran will refuse."
Bolded above is where we are now. Eventually Israel and it's sponsors will be forced to take a negotiated climbdown. This will be the end for them as a dominant power in the region and their future as the "Jewish State". I believe a one state solution is the only way now and doubt that the existence of Israel is for much longer. The collective West, if they step in, would anyway be unable to prevent the inevitable. Israel's position is becoming ever more untenable daily. The negotiated climbdown would be certain to include control and inspection of their undeclared nuclear sites and weapons whether they survive as a state or not. All of this is based on the assumption that just enough rationality exists in the West/Israeli leadership(I know ???) to avoid MAD.
Perhaps, ngb, it would have been better to direct your question at David and Steve for a more accurate analysis. If they answer, it would be safe to assume that the exact opposite of everything they say would be a surefire way of getting to the likely truth. Or even more succinctly, as my Dad said, "Israel can only lose once". When you begin to think through the consequences of Israel losing and what it really represents, it is that the whole collective West loses at the same time.
How do you see events unfolding?
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And what do you think this is..Scotch mist? https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/410098
You are simply trying to deflect because you have no answer to the simple point I made.
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I think most sane people in the world believe the regime change efforts are in the wrong direction.
I agree.
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Hopefully, the leadership of the collective West (or their puppeteers, more accurately), understand the position they are in, negotiate from the position of reality and accept a more diminished role in the win/win multi polar world that is being built. The West/Israel have nothing left in the escalation ladder except for the unthinkable nuclear option. For reasons too obvious to state, it isn't an option that is available unless they have a collective death wish. Not that there would be any "winners" but Western countries are the least equipped/prepared for this doomsday scenario and would be least likely to be able to rebuild in a few generations.
Israel/the West have lost the wider war and that is plain to see, the downside being that they still have the means to upend the board for all. Hopefully (that word again) they take the only rational path although it is unclear if they are rational actors. Rational for the terms of this discussion being a relative term, ngb, as none of Israeli/Western provocations are rational but we can all agree that inviting nuclear armageddon is a much higher step of irrationality than the provocations thus far.
Working from the assumption that enough rationality exists within the decision making corridors of the collective West to save their own skins, then Israel/the West simply have to climb down, recognise their weak position in any negotiations and accept the diminished role in the now unstoppable new multi polar world order. It is in the interests of Iran/China/Russia to make sure that the countries that make up the Collective West(US/UK/EU/G7/NATO) are not humiliated and negotiations are not used to bludgeon them. That invites the irrational response which is not a win for Iran et al either.
In the longer term, should the above come to pass, there would undoubtedly be at least a reconstituted UN giving more power to currently unrepresented Global South or a new organisation entirely. The charter of the UN as it stands is agreed by the world majority, but the West trample over this with their unbalanced control of the main mechanism of the UN, and only one with real clout, the Security Council where they hold 3 of only 5 permanent seats, the only seats with veto power. This control that the West (Israel's sponsors) currently have will not be allowed to continue. The international finance and banking system will also be re-ordered via a new "Bretton Woods" style agreement which will, by definition, take away the West's preferred tool of economic warfare. Namely the illegal, under the UN charter, sanctions that they impose at will through their control of world financial systems and then enforce via the "purely a defensive alliance ::) :-[", NATO.
A comment my father made many years ago has always stuck with me, which is both profound and succinct. "Israel can only lose once".
Yossi Melman @yossi_melman - 5:50 UTC · Jun 15, 2025
"The euphoria was brief. On Friday morning, I asked if it was even necessary to start a war with the Iranians. Shiites are historically willing to suffer. I mentioned their willingness to sacrifice as demonstrated in the 8 years of attrition with Iraq. I recommend that we cut our losses. Ask Trump to stop the scramble for a reasonable agreement. Otherwise, we'll end up begging for a cease-fire and Iran will refuse."
Bolded above is where we are now. Eventually Israel and it's sponsors will b forced to take a negotiated climbdown. This will be the end for them as a dominant power in the region and their future as the "Jewish State". I believe a one state solution is the only way now and doubt that the existence of Israel is for much longer. The collective West, if they step in, would anyway be unable to prevent the inevitable. Israel's position is becoming ever more untenable daily. The negotiated climbdown would be certain to include control and inspection of their undeclared nuclear sites and weapons whether they survive as a state or not. All of this is based on the assumption that just enough rationality exists in the West/Israeli leadership(I know ???) to avoid MAD.
Perhaps, ngb, it would have been better to direct your question at David and Steve for a more accurate analysis. If they answer, it would be safe to assume that the exact opposite of everything they say would be would be a surefire way of getting to the likely truth. Or even more succinctly, as my Dad said, "Israel can only lose once". When you begin to think through the consequences of Israel losing and what it really represents, it is that the whole collective West loses at the same time.
How do you see events unfolding?
I find it hard to predict what will happen in the short term. In the long term overall I agree with your predictions, but I am far from sure what the outcome will be of the present military actions. I think a lot depends upon internal US politics and also upon the position taken by Russia in particular. Israel is desperate for direct US involvement and they will undoubtedly try some false flag event, as they have done before.
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How do you think this will play out now gringo? It is difficult to get a clear picture of what is going on from MSM.
To add to the above, ngb, loss of control of Occupied Palestine by definition ends Western dominance of the whole West Asia/Middle East. The impact on western economies and standard of living will be massive. Those who are in real control of Western governments are also fighting to make sure that control remains. Civil unrest is certain to increase as will clampdowns on civil unrest. Once Empire's defeat is finally delivered, their tyranny will by necessity turn inwards. How that goes is anyone's guess.
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Hopefully, the leadership of the collective West (or their puppeteers, more accurately), understand the position they are in, negotiate from the position of reality and accept a more diminished role in the win/win multi polar world that is being built. The West/Israel have nothing left in the escalation ladder except for the unthinkable nuclear option. For reasons too obvious to state, it isn't an option that is available unless they have a collective death wish. Not that there would be any "winners" but Western countries are the least equipped/prepared for this doomsday scenario and would be least likely to be able to rebuild in a few generations.
Israel/the West have lost the wider war and that is plain to see, the downside being that they still have the means to upend the board for all. Hopefully (that word again) they take the only rational path although it is unclear if they are rational actors. Rational for the terms of this discussion being a relative term, ngb, as none of Israeli/Western provocations are rational but we can all agree that inviting nuclear armageddon is a much higher step of irrationality than the provocations thus far.
Working from the assumption that enough rationality exists within the decision making corridors of the collective West to save their own skins, then Israel/the West simply have to climb down, recognise their weak position in any negotiations and accept the diminished role in the now unstoppable new multi polar world order. It is in the interests of Iran/China/Russia to make sure that the countries that make up the Collective West(US/UK/EU/G7/NATO) are not humiliated and negotiations are not used to bludgeon them. That invites the irrational response which is not a win for Iran et al either.
In the longer term, should the above come to pass, there would undoubtedly be at least a reconstituted UN giving more power to currently unrepresented Global South or a new organisation entirely. The charter of the UN as it stands is agreed by the world majority, but the West trample over this with their unbalanced control of the main mechanism of the UN, and only one with real clout, the Security Council where they hold 3 of only 5 permanent seats, the only seats with veto power. This control that the West (Israel's sponsors) currently have will not be allowed to continue. The international finance and banking system will also be re-ordered via a new "Bretton Woods" style agreement which will, by definition, take away the West's preferred tool of economic warfare. Namely the illegal, under the UN charter, sanctions that they impose at will through their control of world financial systems and then enforce via the "purely a defensive alliance ::) :-[", NATO.
A comment my father made many years ago has always stuck with me, which is both profound and succinct. "Israel can only lose once".
Yossi Melman @yossi_melman - 5:50 UTC · Jun 15, 2025
"The euphoria was brief. On Friday morning, I asked if it was even necessary to start a war with the Iranians. Shiites are historically willing to suffer. I mentioned their willingness to sacrifice as demonstrated in the 8 years of attrition with Iraq. I recommend that we cut our losses. Ask Trump to stop the scramble for a reasonable agreement. Otherwise, we'll end up begging for a cease-fire and Iran will refuse."
Bolded above is where we are now. Eventually Israel and it's sponsors will be forced to take a negotiated climbdown. This will be the end for them as a dominant power in the region and their future as the "Jewish State". I believe a one state solution is the only way now and doubt that the existence of Israel is for much longer. The collective West, if they step in, would anyway be unable to prevent the inevitable. Israel's position is becoming ever more untenable daily. The negotiated climbdown would be certain to include control and inspection of their undeclared nuclear sites and weapons whether they survive as a state or not. All of this is based on the assumption that just enough rationality exists in the West/Israeli leadership(I know ???) to avoid MAD.
Perhaps, ngb, it would have been better to direct your question at David and Steve for a more accurate analysis. If they answer, it would be safe to assume that the exact opposite of everything they say would be a surefire way of getting to the likely truth. Or even more succinctly, as my Dad said, "Israel can only lose once". When you begin to think through the consequences of Israel losing and what it really represents, it is that the whole collective West loses at the same time.
How do you see events unfolding?
It's "ivory tower nonsense", according to Israeli diplomat Shlomo Ben-Ami. Other historians have cited the Arab unwillingness to accept a Jewish presence in the Middle East.
One only has to look at how Hamas controlled Gaza following the withdrawal of the Israeli military in 2005. Digging tunnels from which to plan the eradication of the Jewish state, shooting Fatah prisoners in the knees and throwing them off buildings, then there were the "honour" killings of women: all totally incompatible with Western values.
But then, you and ngb1066 despise everything about the West, ignoring the closed Islamic societies out of which nothing productive has come for the last 500 years.
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To add to the above, ngb, loss of control of Occupied Palestine by definition ends Western dominance of the whole West Asia/Middle East. The impact on western economies and standard of living will be massive. Those who are in real control of Western governments are also fighting to make sure that control remains. Civil unrest is certain to increase as will clampdowns on civil unrest. Once Empire's defeat is finally delivered, their tyranny will by necessity turn inwards. How that goes is anyone's guess.
You're living in cloud cuckoo land. I suspect Israel will annexe Judea and Samaria and incorporate it legally into the Jewish state. https://www.jns.org/yesha-council-only-judea-and-samaria-sovereignty-will-stop-next-massacre/
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It's "ivory tower nonsense", according to Israeli diplomat Shlomo Ben-Ami. Other historians have cited the Arab unwillingness to accept a Jewish presence in the Middle East.
One only has to look at how Hamas controlled Gaza following the withdrawal of the Israeli military in 2005. Digging tunnels from which to plan the eradication of the Jewish state, shooting Fatah prisoners in the knees and throwing them off buildings, then there were the "honour" killings of women: all totally incompatible with Western values.
But then, you and ngb1066 despise everything about the West, ignoring the closed Islamic societies out of which nothing productive has come for the last 500 years.
In fact, come to think of it, why don't you both join the next intifada? I'm sure you will be welcomed with open arms by your Muslim friends.
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I find it hard to predict what will happen in the short term. In the long term overall I agree with your predictions, but I am far from sure what the outcome will be of the present military actions. I think a lot depends upon internal US politics and also upon the position taken by Russia in particular. Israel is desperate for direct US involvement and they will undoubtedly try some false flag event, as they have done before.
China have come out solidly in support of Iran. I confidently expect Russia to stand firm with Iran also, ngb. As a guide to how current hostilities are playing out, it seems of note that reporting from Israel is under strict military censorship but not in Iran. There is no need of this if they are winning and Iran's missiles really are "indiscriminate" as Israel claim. Reporters would be able to see that Iranians were hitting "purely random civilian targets" and not Military and Intelligence Bases or Airbases. Despite this there are an awful lot of strategic military targets on fire in Israel all over x and especially Telegram channels. Iran openly report targets that Israel have hit.
I agree that in the short term it is difficult to predict with any confidence how the defeat of Israel/the West plays out but it is difficult to see any way for the West/Israel to change the trajectory.
https://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2025/06/16/749942/Losses-inflicted-Israelis-far-exceed-their-expectations-IRGC--commander
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They are trying to spur a revolt against the Ayatollah. Hence its called operation rising lion as depicted in the historic Persian flag.
Do you remember Juan Guiado the so called "internationally recognised" President of Venezuala from a few years ago, David? "Internationally recognised" being a euphemism for "whichever handful of vassal states the US had coerced into agreeing with them". Anyway, I suspect that this regime change operation will be even more farcical than that.
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China have come out solidly in support of Iran. I confidently expect Russia to stand firm with Iran also, ngb. As a guide to how current hostilities are playing out, it seems of note that reporting from Israel is under strict military censorship but not in Iran. There is no need of this if they are winning and Iran's missiles really are "indiscriminate" as Israel claim. Reporters would be able to see that Iranians were hitting "purely random civilian targets" and not Military and Intelligence Bases or Airbases. Despite this there are an awful lot of strategic military targets on fire in Israel all over x and especially Telegram channels. Iran openly report targets that Israel have hit.
I agree that in the short term it is difficult to predict with any confidence how the defeat of Israel/the West plays out but it is difficult to see any way for the West/Israel to change the trajectory.
https://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2025/06/16/749942/Losses-inflicted-Israelis-far-exceed-their-expectations-IRGC--commander
Henry Bodkin is reporting for the Telegraph. I don't see any Western journalists in Tehran.
In the interests of fairness I post a clip from which you may gain succour. https://youtu.be/T1ID3bNgrrM
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I find it hard to predict what will happen in the short term. In the long term overall I agree with your predictions, but I am far from sure what the outcome will be of the present military actions. I think a lot depends upon internal US politics and also upon the position taken by Russia in particular. Israel is desperate for direct US involvement and they will undoubtedly try some false flag event, as they have done before.
I am expecting this too, ngb. The soon to be decommissioned and oldest active Aircraft Carrier in the world, USS Nimitz, is currently sailing towards towards the Middle East and seems a juicy sacrificial lamb/target for a false flag attack. USS Liberty, the sequel
https://www.reuters.com/world/china/us-aircraft-carrier-heads-west-schina-sea-amid-middle-east-tensions-2025-06-16/
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Perhaps no false flag required this time
https://x.com/WhiteHouse/status/1934745869821370570
"Iran should have signed the “deal” I told them to sign. What a shame, and waste of human life. Simply stated, IRAN CAN NOT HAVE A NUCLEAR WEAPON. I said it over and over again! Everyone should immediately evacuate Tehran!" –President Donald J. Trump
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Perhaps no false flag required this time
https://x.com/WhiteHouse/status/1934745869821370570
"Iran should have signed the “deal” I told them to sign. What a shame, and waste of human life. Simply stated, IRAN CAN NOT HAVE A NUCLEAR WEAPON. I said it over and over again! Everyone should immediately evacuate Tehran!" –President Donald J. Trump
A significant number of US military refuelling planes crossed the Atlantic yesterday.
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China have come out solidly in support of Iran. I confidently expect Russia to stand firm with Iran also, ngb. As a guide to how current hostilities are playing out, it seems of note that reporting from Israel is under strict military censorship but not in Iran. There is no need of this if they are winning and Iran's missiles really are "indiscriminate" as Israel claim. Reporters would be able to see that Iranians were hitting "purely random civilian targets" and not Military and Intelligence Bases or Airbases. Despite this there are an awful lot of strategic military targets on fire in Israel all over x and especially Telegram channels. Iran openly report targets that Israel have hit.
I agree that in the short term it is difficult to predict with any confidence how the defeat of Israel/the West plays out but it is difficult to see any way for the West/Israel to change the trajectory.
https://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2025/06/16/749942/Losses-inflicted-Israelis-far-exceed-their-expectations-IRGC--commander
I am afraid I am more pessimistic than you gringo. As you have noted the US are now clearly planning direct and massive intervention. They would of course suffer big losses if they tried to conquer Iran as they did Iraq, but they could still smash Iran in my view unless other countries come to its support. Although some support has been expressed by Russia, China and Pakistan I doubt if any are going to provide military assistance. The Arab countries are frankly pathetic on this, Jordan in particular. They are not going to give any support and virtually give a free hand to the USA. Meanwhile the genocide in Gaza and moves to annex the West Bank continue, with limited media coverage. I think Russia is much more concerned with Ukraine. Putin wants the US to stand away from Europe and enable Russia to achieve its aims and is prepared to appease Trump over Israel in order to do that. We have to remember that Russia is not the USSR. If the USSR still existed the situation would be totally different. There is also no way that China will get directly involved.
I think the situation is very grim, much to the satisfaction of characters like Steve. However, I believe he will not be so happy in the longer term.
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In fact, come to think of it, why don't you both join the next intifada? I'm sure you will be welcomed with open arms by your Muslim friends.
You are an idiot, totally blinded by your worship of Zionism and the American world view. You are incapable of rational argument.
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You're living in cloud cuckoo land. I suspect Israel will annexe Judea and Samaria and incorporate it legally into the Jewish state. https://www.jns.org/yesha-council-only-judea-and-samaria-sovereignty-will-stop-next-massacre/
Just like the Nazis annexing Czechoslovakia and Poland to create a "greater Germany" for the master race with the "untermenschen" either displaced, murdered or subjugated.
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Looks like Israel is getting bailed out ..
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Just like the Nazis annexing Czechoslovakia and Poland to create a "greater Germany" for the master race with the "untermenchen" either displaced, murdered or subjugated.
My observations exactly. How any sane person can support this is mind-blowing. Sadly I have friends who have become indoctrinated and conditioned by racist anti-islamic views. It wouldn't stop them from going to Dubai for a holiday though.
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Looks like Israel is getting bailed out ..
It does. This is going to be very ugly. Iran will not take it lying down. Expect a crisis of the world economy, rising oil prices and massive migration. The problem is that our government supports all this, despite some very mild criticisms of Israel. Starmer and his gang really are dire. He will go down in history as the worst Prime Minister we have ever had.
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It does. This is going to be very ugly. Iran will not take it lying down. Expect a crisis of the world economy, rising oil prices and massive migration. The problem is that our government supports all this, despite some very mild criticisms of Israel. Starmer and his gang really are dire. He will go down in history as the worst Prime Minister we have ever had.
The world's media keen to show any military / governmental damage in Iran. But not Israel. That's out of bounds apparently.
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The world's media keen to show any military / governmental damage in Iran. But not Israel. That's out of bounds apparently.
The double standards and hypocrisy continue. The MSM seem to think we are all like Steve!
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Israel has killed Iran’s top military commander just four days after he was appointed to the position on Friday after Israel killed his predecessor in a military strike.
https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/israel-iran-attacks-ali-shadmani-irans-top-commander-and-khameneis-close-aide-killed-in-israeli-strike-8688970 (https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/israel-iran-attacks-ali-shadmani-irans-top-commander-and-khameneis-close-aide-killed-in-israeli-strike-8688970)
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lol ;D
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I am afraid I am more pessimistic than you gringo. As you have noted the US are now clearly planning direct and massive intervention. They would of course suffer big losses if they tried to conquer Iran as they did Iraq, but they could still smash Iran in my view unless other countries come to its support. Although some support has been expressed by Russia, China and Pakistan I doubt if any are going to provide military assistance. The Arab countries are frankly pathetic on this, Jordan in particular. They are not going to give any support and virtually give a free hand to the USA. Meanwhile the genocide in Gaza and moves to annex the West Bank continue, with limited media coverage. I think Russia is much more concerned with Ukraine. Putin wants the US to stand away from Europe and enable Russia to achieve its aims and is prepared to appease Trump over Israel in order to do that. We have to remember that Russia is not the USSR. If the USSR still existed the situation would be totally different. There is also no way that China will get directly involved.
I think the situation is very grim, much to the satisfaction of characters like Steve. However, I believe he will not be so happy in the longer term.
You are probably correct, ngb, in terms of the US and Arab states, you are certainly correct. I do hold some expectation however that Russia/China will give assistance to Iran. The basis of this expectation is the importance of Iran to both China and Russia. It is a crucial part of BRI (Belt Road Initiative) and vital to the Multipolar world the Chinese/Russians have been assiduously building over the last decades. More importantly it is of massive strategic importance in terms of the security of both China and Russia. They cannot, for a number of reasons, see it fall. I see a role, much as NATO have played in Ukraine, where Russia and China will arm and assist Iran in ways similar to NATO's proxy. ISR assistance, endless flow of missiles etc. It is a golden opportunity for China/Russia to fight NATO behind plausible deniability, I expect them to take it. I also expect it is already well gamed by Russia/China/Iran. In fact, from China/Russia point of view it is a perfect trap, a scenario better than their wildest dreams.
NATO/Israel would never plan going to war in the way that this is unfolding. It isn't a plan or strategy, it is on the hoof desperation measures. NATO/Israel are ill prepared to take on this fight but understand that the military gap between them and Russia/China is tilting more against them with time. They are going now not because they are prepared and ready but because next month, next year they will be even less prepared than now.
Last year sometime there was a summit with China/Russia, after which Putin and Xi said the world was about to see changes that hadn't been seen in centuries, or words to that effect. They have spent decades of time and billions in treasure strategically, economically and militarily preparing for these changes. I don't think that they will passively allow it all to be destroyed.
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The world's media keen to show any military / governmental damage in Iran. But not Israel. That's out of bounds apparently.
More of note, Roch, is that the Iranians aren't hiding and censoring the damage and death in their country. Israel must have more to hide
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Iran Military have posted "It has begun" about 1 hour ago.
Trump's statement on the Iranian leader is awful. Trump is proving to be a nutcase since he came to power. We are not far in this presidency but if he's this crazy so early on, the future doesn't bode well.
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Iran Military have posted "It has begun" about 1 hour ago.
Trump's statement on the Iranian leader is awful. Trump is proving to be a nutcase since he came to power. We are not far in this presidency but if he's this crazy so early on, the future doesn't bode well.
According to uamap he is demanding unconditional surrender.
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According to uamap he is demanding unconditional surrender.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-iran-surrender-israel-threat-b2771759.html (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-iran-surrender-israel-threat-b2771759.html)
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https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-iran-surrender-israel-threat-b2771759.html (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-iran-surrender-israel-threat-b2771759.html)
Trump is unhinged. Open threats to assassinate the leader of another country? This should be condemned publicly by all leaders of the so called "free world" who spout sanctimonious rubbish about the "rules based international order". They will do nothing however.
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Trump is unhinged.
No need to state the obvious. :))
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Trump is unhinged. Open threats to assassinate the leader of another country? This should be condemned publicly by all leaders of the so called "free world" who spout sanctimonious rubbish about the "rules based international order". They will do nothing however.
Piers owned by George
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kyf8yzBuitU
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"The Iranians are not going to kneel. The Iranians are not going to wave a white flag. The Iranians are not going to surrender," former head of Mossad Danny Yatom says on Israel's Channel 13.
https://x.com/TheCradleMedia/status/1934969072262709672
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Just like the Nazis annexing Czechoslovakia and Poland to create a "greater Germany" for the master race with the "untermenschen" either displaced, murdered or subjugated.
Germany lost the war, and look what happened: https://theconversation.com/postwar-forced-resettlement-of-germans-echoes-through-the-decades-137219
This was the settlement the Palestinians should have taken: https://www.britannica.com/topic/United-Nations-Resolution-181
They did not. They started a war and lost.
I'm not saying Palestinians should be expelled from Judea and Samaria, or from the Gaza Strip for that matter. But I find it hard to envisage a one-state solution following October 7, 2023.
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Trump is unhinged. Open threats to assassinate the leader of another country? This should be condemned publicly by all leaders of the so called "free world" who spout sanctimonious rubbish about the "rules based international order". They will do nothing however.
The mad mullahs of Iran are on their way out; they've had a good run since 1979. As for Western leaders, they have been chosen by free and fair elections. When did anyone on the left ever criticize the elections in Russia and China? I've never heard anyone do so.
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The mad mullahs of Iran are on their way out; they've had a good run since 1979. As for Western leaders, they have been chosen by free and fair elections. When did anyone on the left ever criticize the elections in Russia and China? I've never heard anyone do so.
I'm sure it all makes sense to you, Steve.
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Iran now sometimes attacking Israel during daylight?
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Iran now sometimes attacking Israel during daylight?
Yes. I am not sure how this is going to play out. A lot depends upon the balance of power within the MAGA coalition. We will know a lot more within a couple of days I suspect.
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Yes. I am not sure how this is going to play out. A lot depends upon the balance of power within the MAGA coalition. We will know a lot more within a couple of days I suspect.
I think both sides are doing very considerable damage to each other. And both sets of populations are likely to be very angry and bewildered. If this keeps up, it could be both governments that are at risk of overthrow.
Obviously if US wades in, I think Iran will fall, heroically. Their stand against Israel will become legendary.
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Yes. I am not sure how this is going to play out. A lot depends upon the balance of power within the MAGA coalition. We will know a lot more within a couple of days I suspect.
We will have to wait and see how it plays out among the various political groupings in the Middle East, Europe and the USA as well as the two protagonists. My own thinking at this stage is that Iran will seek negotiation. "He who fights and runs away lives to fight another day" The leaders will want to hold on to power. Israel wants to draw in the USA to finish off the regime.
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We will have to wait and see how it plays out among the various political groupings in the Middle East, Europe and the USA as well as the two protagonists. My own thinking at this stage is that Iran will seek negotiation. "He who fights and runs away lives to fight another day" The leaders will want to hold on to power. Israel wants to draw in the USA to finish off the regime.
The biggest problem with this is that Trump said "unconditional surrender". This must mean that Iran is taking an incredible pounding by Israel and its leaders can be taken out due to intelligence and precision munitions. Trump now cannot be seen to lose face. He cannot back-track without looking extremely stupid. That's not going to happen.
I think they will take out Irans launchers and relevant sites. Once this happens, it's game over and Iran is a sitting duck for destruction from the air, because Israel can recover.
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The biggest problem with this is that Trump said "unconditional surrender". This must mean that Iran is taking an incredible pounding by Israel and its leaders can be taken out due to intelligence and precision munitions. Trump now cannot be seen to lose face. He cannot back-track without looking extremely stupid. That's not going to happen.
I think they will take out Irans launchers and relevant sites. Once this happens, it's game over and Iran is a sitting duck for destruction from the air, because Israel can recover.
I agree with most of your assessment but I am not sure Trump is completely free to do what he wants. He has to retain the support of key members of his team and big cracks have appeared already. In addition we dot yet know what support Russia and China may give Iran. That could be a game changer.
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I agree with most of your assessment but I am not sure Trump is completely free to do what he wants. He has to retain the support of key members of his team and big cracks have appeared already. In addition we dot yet know what support Russia and China may give Iran. That could be a game changer.
There is a site on Facebook called Iran Military. It has incredible footage of missile strikes on Israel. Tel-a-Viv is taking a pounding. It's not just at night, it's during the day.
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"The idea that Iran has actually driven the events which has led to this war is not even acknowledged.."
Now listen and learn: https://youtu.be/VdKr2Nla9KA
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"The idea that Iran has actually driven the events which has led to this war is not even acknowledged.."
Now listen and learn: https://youtu.be/VdKr2Nla9KA
No thanks. I have learned all I need to know from the rants of Melanie Phillips.
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Moral Maze - Was Israel right to launch strikes on Iran?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m002dmnz
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Is there any possibility that Trump is actually wanting to weaken Netenyahu? Maybe the real regime change he needs is at the Israeli end?
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Cannot recommend the Roger Boyd article below enough. A long but excellent read that covers coherently the potted history of how we got where we are now and an objective analysis of likely consequences.
https://rogerboyd.substack.com/p/why-iran-the-context-and-the-consequences
"Fundamentally, the US and its Western vassals are faced with a defeat or a defeat; a conundrum. Made worse by the very real possible issue of a financial collapse given the probable closure of the Straits of Hormuz and the prospect of yet more massive debt-fuelled US government war spending. Will the losing struggle of the West to maintain its dominance take on an even greater military aggression, to add to the Ukraine proxy war and the Zionist genocide? Or will it maintain its somewhat peaceful progress? For Israel there is an existential threat as a continued campaign without direct Western intervention is simply not tenable, especially given the Iranian intelligent slow-bleed strategy, while an ending of its attacks upon Iran may very well bring the fall of the government and a more intense stage of internal conflict. Its only positive option is US and Western direct intervention, and that is why the US Zionist donor network is being utilized to the hilt as the foreign interference operation (along with AIPAC etc.) that it is."
"With the “shock and awe” attempt and utter failure, and Iran now slowly bleeding out Israel, Netanyahu’s only option is to embroil the West fully in the conflict. Something that the West did not want, instead wanting to have its “deniability” fig leaf while fully taking part in the subjugation of a destabilized Iran a la Libya and Syria under the cover of “humanitarian intervention” and the puppet Pahlavi regime kept in reserve in the West. So now it must either retreat and order Israel to stop its attacks, which may very well require the taking out of Netanyahu and other Israeli leaders and cause consternation among the US Zionist donor class, or roll up its sleeves and descend into another Middle Eastern quagmire which will sap its strength. It is the latter prospect that is currently holding back the Trump administration from directly attacking Iran, together with up to date - most probably much more accurate and less sanguine than the misleading and self-serving Israeli intelligence - US intelligence reports on Iran’s capabilities and regime stability."
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Cannot recommend the Roger Boyd article below enough. A long but excellent read that covers coherently the potted history of how we got where we are now and an objective analysis of likely consequences.
https://rogerboyd.substack.com/p/why-iran-the-context-and-the-consequences
"Fundamentally, the US and its Western vassals are faced with a defeat or a defeat; a conundrum. Made worse by the very real possible issue of a financial collapse given the probable closure of the Straits of Hormuz and the prospect of yet more massive debt-fuelled US government war spending. Will the losing struggle of the West to maintain its dominance take on an even greater military aggression, to add to the Ukraine proxy war and the Zionist genocide? Or will it maintain its somewhat peaceful progress? For Israel there is an existential threat as a continued campaign without direct Western intervention is simply not tenable, especially given the Iranian intelligent slow-bleed strategy, while an ending of its attacks upon Iran may very well bring the fall of the government and a more intense stage of internal conflict. Its only positive option is US and Western direct intervention, and that is why the US Zionist donor network is being utilized to the hilt as the foreign interference operation (along with AIPAC etc.) that it is."
"With the “shock and awe” attempt and utter failure, and Iran now slowly bleeding out Israel, Netanyahu’s only option is to embroil the West fully in the conflict. Something that the West did not want, instead wanting to have its “deniability” fig leaf while fully taking part in the subjugation of a destabilized Iran a la Libya and Syria under the cover of “humanitarian intervention” and the puppet Pahlavi regime kept in reserve in the West. So now it must either retreat and order Israel to stop its attacks, which may very well require the taking out of Netanyahu and other Israeli leaders and cause consternation among the US Zionist donor class, or roll up its sleeves and descend into another Middle Eastern quagmire which will sap its strength. It is the latter prospect that is currently holding back the Trump administration from directly attacking Iran, together with up to date - most probably much more accurate and less sanguine than the misleading and self-serving Israeli intelligence - US intelligence reports on Iran’s capabilities and regime stability."
Moses was a descendant of Abraham. I don't see how the Islamic religion is legitimized in any way by the article, neither does he acknowledge that the Jewish religion predates Islam by millennia.
So Putin is going to stand for re-election in 2030. What a surprise! Does anybody except myself recognize Russia is a police state, which has had no free and fair elections since 2000? https://united24media.com/anti-fake/when-was-the-last-time-russia-even-had-a-fair-election-6069
As for Iran, it used the money it received from the deal to sponsor international terrorism: Hamas, Hezbollah, the Houthis. The country is a menace and is reaping now what it sowed: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68031732
Reports of division in Israel are exaggerated: https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/410132
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Trump announcement..
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Trump announcement..
Here is his speech
https://x.com/SarahisCensored/status/1936607354784735584
Iran won't be bullied into submission. If US bases are not targeted directly, then I would expect the attacks on Occupied Palestine to increase. Probably both. Occupied Palestine must really be taking a battering for the US to take such risky escalations.
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Why were Trump's sons by his side during his address to the nation? Afaik they have no legitimacy!?
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Why were Trump's sons by his side during his address to the nation? Afaik they have no legitimacy!?
They are not his sons. They are the vice president. The foreign secretary and defence secretary. I have used GB titles for these ministers
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. US are powerless to intervene. The development of accurate and un-interceptable hypersonic missiles has made their isolated bases all over the Middle East indefensible.
🤡
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As the dust settles, it seems a self defeating move by Empire. They achieved the square root of nothing and are now in a weaker position.
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As the dust settles, it seems a self defeating move by Empire. They achieved the square root of nothing and are now in a weaker position.
How do think this will develop now?
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🤡
Tell me the next move, David. Do you believe the US bases are defendable? What do you think US achieved last night and do you think they are in a stronger or weaker position today? Everything I have said stands. Watch it unfold. You are watching desperation and mistaking it for strategy
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How do think this will develop now?
Gringo may have other views but it sounds like they will take their time to assess the damage and then make a measured response.
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🤡
Maybe they have massively bolstered air defence at their bases. But I thought the Israeli air defences where supposed to be the best in the world?
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How do think this will develop now?
I expect that Iran/Russia/China will continue their self evidently successful strategy of death by a thousand cuts. I wouldn't be surprised if one outcome is the development of nuclear weapons by Iran. This would be the ultimate irony. Iran have never been developing nuclear weapons and had they been doing so they would have achieved this goal long ago. The "fatwa" by Ayatollah Khamenei actually means something and all evidence points to this fact. The US attack supposedly to prevent the development of nuclear weapons which they weren't doing, is more likely to provoke the development of nuclear weapons. This obvious fact tells us that the real reason for the attack was attempted regime change. The Iranian public, funnily enough, rather than turning on their own government have unified behind it.
Rather than developing nuclear warheads however, I suspect the Iranians will increase the pressure on Israel and push for a nuclear free Middle East. The best solution, and the one that all desire, is for the Zionists secretive program to be finally opened to international oversight and neutralised. Empire is dead already, ngb, and we are in the interregnum between the old regime dying(Empire) and the the new regime being born(multi-polarity).
Iran are at this point perfectly entitled to attack US bases but I don't think they will. It is worth remembering that Iran/Persia gave the world Chess. They are a well educated society and master strategists. It is how you survive as a continuous civilisation for thousands of years. Whatever response Empire thinks they have provoked from Iran and gamed for, is unlikely to happen. As a good chess player you understand this, ngb. So Empire would seem to be inviting an attack on US bases to give a fig leaf, "Casus Beli", to go to war and save Empire in the Middle East where their "unsinkable Aircraft Carrier" is listing badly. Why would Iran be distracted from their main goal which is working so well? Their strategy is working perfectly.
My own view, for what it's worth, is that along with the thousand cuts strategy, Empire has to suffer an unambiguous defeat somewhere but one that falls short of inviting a blistering response where any victory would the definition of "Pyrrhic". The time, place and circumstances of that defeat need to be carefully calibrated in order to achieve the desired outcome. Destroying the bases of a nuclear superpower whilst justified is probably not the best next move. The psychological pressure on US service personnel must now be immense, anyway, so perhaps better to leave that on a slow boil. The mental pressure of waiting for a response is a weapon itself, not only on the personnel but the citizenry of the nations of Empire. The populace in all the aggressor nations are getting increasingly restless as it becomes ever more self evident to those populaces that our countries are the aggressors.
Ultimately all that Iran and other enemies of Empire need to do is carry on the current slow bleed strategy and not be provoked into anything rash. They are winning, Empire is losing. Iran will continue the bringing of the Zionists to heel, Russia will carry on crushing Empire's proxy Nazis in Ukraine.
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I expect that Iran/Russia/China will continue their self evidently successful strategy of death by a thousand cuts. I wouldn't be surprised if one outcome is the development of nuclear weapons by Iran. This would be the ultimate irony. Iran have never been developing nuclear weapons and had they been doing so they would have achieved this goal long ago. The "fatwa" by Ayatollah Khamenei actually means something and all evidence points to this fact. The US attack supposedly to prevent the development of nuclear weapons which they weren't doing, is more likely to provoke the development of nuclear weapons. This obvious fact tells us that the real reason for the attack was attempted regime change. The Iranian public, funnily enough, rather than turning on their own government have unified behind it.
Rather than developing nuclear warheads however, I suspect the Iranians will increase the pressure on Israel and push for a nuclear free Middle East. The best solution, and the one that all desire, is for the Zionists secretive program to be finally opened to international oversight and neutralised. Empire is dead already, ngb, and we are in the interregnum between the old regime dying(Empire) and the the new regime being born(multi-polarity).
Iran are at this point perfectly entitled to attack US bases but I don't think they will. It is worth remembering that Iran/Persia gave the world Chess. They are a well educated society and master strategists. It is how you survive as a continuous civilisation for thousands of years. Whatever response Empire thinks they have provoked from Iran and gamed for, is unlikely to happen. As a good chess player you understand this, ngb. So Empire would seem to be inviting an attack on US bases to give a fig leaf, "Casus Beli", to go to war and save Empire in the Middle East where their "unsinkable Aircraft Carrier" is listing badly. Why would Iran be distracted from their main goal which is working so well? Their strategy is working perfectly.
My own view, for what it's worth, is that along with the thousand cuts strategy, Empire has to suffer an unambiguous defeat somewhere but one that falls short of inviting a blistering response where any victory would the definition of "Pyrrhic". The time, place and circumstances of that defeat need to be carefully calibrated in order to achieve the desired outcome. Destroying the bases of a nuclear superpower whilst justified is probably not the best next move. The psychological pressure on US service personnel must now be immense, anyway, so perhaps better to leave that on a slow boil. The mental pressure of waiting for a response is a weapon itself, not only on the personnel but the citizenry of the nations of Empire. The populace in all the aggressor nations are getting increasingly restless as it becomes ever more self evident to those populaces that our countries are the aggressors.
Ultimately all that Iran and other enemies of Empire need to do is carry on the current slow bleed strategy and not be provoked into anything rash. They are winning, Empire is losing. Iran will continue the bringing of the Zionists to heel, Russia will carry on crushing Empire's proxy Nazis in Ukraine.
Hope your right Gringo about not attacking American bases, my son in law is on one, he should come home next Saturday for six weeks off, I don’t know if he will make a flight out? Trump has upped the Anti now I’m afraid, there’s no telling what will happen now.
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Hope your right Gringo about not attacking American bases, my son in law is on one, he should come home next Saturday for six weeks off, I don’t know if he will make a flight out? Trump has upped the Anti now I’m afraid, there’s no telling what will happen now.
Hope he stays safe, HB
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Gringo may have other views but it sounds like they will take their time to assess the damage and then make a measured response.
https://t.me/intelslava/76837
New high-resolution imagery, captured on June 21, 2025, suggests Iran was preparing the Fordow nuclear facility for a strike. The facility's entrance tunnels were observed being filled with earth by trucks and diggers.
The biggest damage is to Empire credibility and their lies.
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The largest B2 bomber operation in history.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjgMXRDR-xs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjgMXRDR-xs)
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Hope he stays safe, HB
Thanks Gringo, worrying times at the moment.
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I can’t help but think Putin was aware of some sort, I don’t think Trump would have took such a risk without talking to Putin? That’s why most talk between Russia and USA over Ukraine has been between the two Countries. Iran would and was brought up, maybe some sort of compromise was reached, you keep your land grab in Ukraine and we will deal with Iran’s Nuclear project? Bullies don’t like to confront bullies, they don’t like being hurt
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I can’t help but think Putin was aware of some sort, I don’t think Trump would have took such a risk without talking to Putin? That’s why most talk between Russia and USA over Ukraine has been between the two Countries. Iran would and was brought up, maybe some sort of compromise was reached, you keep your land grab in Ukraine and we will deal with Iran’s Nuclear project? Bullies don’t like to confront bullies, they don’t like being hurt
You could be right about that HB. Russia has condemned the attack but there are no signs that it will assist Iran. Trump has gone quiet about Ukraine. My guess is that Zelensky is very worried.
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Thanks Gringo, worrying times at the moment.
🤞Hope he remains safe HB
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You could be right about that HB. Russia has condemned the attack but there are no signs that it will assist Iran. Trump has gone quiet about Ukraine. My guess is that Zelensky is very worried.
I think Putin is smarter than Trump NGB, he’s been around a long while now. I don’t think Zelensky will get much help from Trump from now on, he’s not bothered about Ukraine, and like you say, he will be worried.
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🤞Hope he remains safe HB
Thanks Roch, he does six weeks on and six weeks off, every time he’s out there something happens 🙈
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I think Putin is smarter than Trump NGB, he’s been around a long while now. I don’t think Zelensky will get much help from Trump from now on, he’s not bothered about Ukraine, and like you say, he will be worried.
EXCLUSIVETrump prepares to jet to NATO as poll reveals Americans think White House backs Russia over Ukraine
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14833187/donald-trump-nato-summit-russia-ukraine.html
Trump said last Saturday that Putin called him on his birthday - but their discussion mainly focused on the war between Israel and Iran, rather than Russia's own conflict.
'Much less time was spent talking about Russia/Ukraine, but that will be for next week,' the president said in a Truth Social post.
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Thanks Roch, he does six weeks on and six weeks off, every time he’s out there something happens 🙈
I think Gringo will be right HB.
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Interesting article in The Cradle. The publication is biased against Israel 'the West' so should be read with that in mind.
https://thecradle.co/articles/perception-vs-reality-what-the-israel-iran-war-actually-reveals
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I think Putin is smarter than Trump NGB, he’s been around a long while now. I don’t think Zelensky will get much help from Trump from now on, he’s not bothered about Ukraine, and like you say, he will be worried.
I agree that Putin is a lot smarter than Trump and is also far more experienced. The confusing factor is that Russia has good relations with Israel. It is significant that Israel has not joined in any sanctions against Russia and has been generally quiet in relation to Ukraine. Putin does speak to Netanyahu. The ideology of Putin is far from that of the USSR and he is essentially a very pragmatic Russian nationalist. For that reason I doubt if Russia's support for Iran will go much further than words.
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I can’t help but think Putin was aware of some sort, I don’t think Trump would have took such a risk without talking to Putin? That’s why most talk between Russia and USA over Ukraine has been between the two Countries. Iran would and was brought up, maybe some sort of compromise was reached, you keep your land grab in Ukraine and we will deal with Iran’s Nuclear project? Bullies don’t like to confront bullies, they don’t like being hurt
Putin was almost certainly aware, HB. He had warned that 100's of Russians were working at Bushehr Reactor plus a couple of other sites where Russia are building reactors with the Iranians. He stated that they are going nowhere and that striking them would have consequences.
https://x.com/DD_Geopolitics/status/1936172696553111877
He didn't randomly state this for no reason, obviously, and it seems a reasonable inference that he was informed. We can also reasonably infer that the Iranians also knew because of the evacuation and preparation of the site before the strikes. Roch earlier in the thread raised the notion, floated by some, that Trump is secretly working against Netanyahu. I think Alex Krainer articulated it well, can't remember where but will attempt to find it later. Whatever the truth there are a lot of unanswered questions.
In terms of the deal you mention, HB, a kind of trade off giving Trump and Putin a free hand in Iran and Ukraine respectively. I doubt this for a number of reasons though concede that nothing can be ruled out. It is however difficult to square that particular circle. The first point is that Russia/Putin need no-one's acquiescence to deal with Ukraine. No amount of US assistance can help Ukraine but Ukraine are constantly begging for assistance because without it they collapse rapidly. Also Ukraine are not a sovereign government and Zelensky and co are simply puppets of outside interests.
Iran on the other hand are not requesting military assistance and their government is not a proxy of Russia and is clearly sovereign and capable of defending themselves. Russia have made clear their position and are solidly on the side of Iran. Russia also have their own current large front against Empire and don't need distracting from that.
China also are heavily reliant on Iran as their 25 year 400 billion dollar strategic partnership demonstrates. They have two intelligence gathering ships currently in the Persian Gulf. The verified facts that can be agreed upon by all seem to point more towards the Roch/Krainer view that Netanyahu is being thrown under the bus. The non event "bombing" of Fordow, warned of and prepared for beforehand, lends credence to this view. Iran could easily have shot down the subsonic B2 bombers supposedly carrying massive bunker busters which negates any alleged stealth. They were warned in advance but chose not to even try? Why? Since the "bombing" of Fordow, Iran have increased the tempo of attacks on the occupiers again.
Trump's declaration of having destroyed Iran nuclear capability tends towards this theory also. He has basically said that US have done their bit and are now out unless Iran strikes US. Declaring victory and walking away, as it were. I agree, HB that there are clearly some moves that are, "hidden from view", and that some back-channel negotiations and manoeuvres have taken place. It appears that from what available facts there are, that Iran were party to those shenanigans and Israel are the heel.
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Putin was almost certainly aware, HB. He had warned that 100's of Russians were working at Bushehr Reactor plus a couple of other sites where Russia are building reactors with the Iranians. He stated that they are going nowhere and that striking them would have consequences.
https://x.com/DD_Geopolitics/status/1936172696553111877
He didn't randomly state this for no reason, obviously, and it seems a reasonable inference that he was informed. We can also reasonably infer that the Iranians also knew because of the evacuation and preparation of the site before the strikes. Roch earlier in the thread raised the notion, floated by some, that Trump is secretly working against Netanyahu. I think Alex Krainer articulated it well, can't remember where but will attempt to find it later. Whatever the truth there are a lot of unanswered questions.
In terms of the deal you mention, HB, a kind of trade off giving Trump and Putin a free hand in Iran and Ukraine respectively. I doubt this for a number of reasons though concede that nothing can be ruled out. It is however difficult to square that particular circle. The first point is that Russia/Putin need nobodies acquiescence to deal with Ukraine. No amount of US assistance can help Ukraine but Ukraine are constantly begging for assistance because without it they collapse rapidly. Also Ukraine are not a sovereign government and Zelensky and co are simply puppets of outside interests.
Iran on the other hand are not requesting military assistance and their government is not a proxy of Russia and is clearly sovereign and capable of defending themselves. Russia have made clear their position and are solidly on the side of Iran. Russia also have their own current large front against Empire and don't need distracting from that.
China also are heavily reliant on Iran as their 25 year 400 billion dollar strategic partnership demonstrates. They have two intelligence gathering ships currently in the Persian Gulf. The verified facts that can be agreed upon by all seem to point more towards the Roch/Krainer view that Netanyahu is being thrown under the bus. The non event "bombing" of Fordow, warned of and prepared for beforehand, lends credence to this view. Iran could easily have shot down the subsonic B2 bombers supposedly carrying massive bunker busters which negates any alleged stealth. They were warned in advance but chose not to even try? Why? Since the "bombing" of Fordow, Iran have increased the tempo of attacks on the occupiers again.
Trump's declaration of having destroyed Iran nuclear capability tends towards this theory also. He has basically said that US have done their bit and are now out unless Iran strikes US. Declaring victory and walking away, as it were. I agree, HB that there are clearly some moves that are, "hidden from view", and that some back-channel negotiations and manoeuvres have taken place. It appears that from what available facts there are, that Iran were party to those shenanigans and Israel are the heel.
I was amazed that the Americans made a big deal out of the secrecy that was used in the planning. That was not required and could have been answered if and when questioned. All the talk about decoys etc. Why give this more focus than was necessary? Was it to show how clever they are?
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I was amazed that the Americans made a big deal out of the secrecy that was used in the planning. That was not required and could have been answered if and when questioned. All the talk about decoys etc. Why give this more focus than was necessary? Was it to show how clever they are?
Its Trump all over Bubo, he likes to Gloat about things.
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I agree that Putin is a lot smarter than Trump and is also far more experienced. The confusing factor is that Russia has good relations with Israel. It is significant that Israel has not joined in any sanctions against Russia and has been generally quiet in relation to Ukraine. Putin does speak to Netanyahu. The ideology of Putin is far from that of the USSR and he is essentially a very pragmatic Russian nationalist. For that reason I doubt if Russia's support for Iran will go much further than words.
Nothing seems to Faze Putin NGB, I didn’t realise how quiet Israel had been regarding Russian v Ukraine and refused to impose sanctions on Russia and refused defensive weapons, I also noticed they took a Neutral stance over Crimea as well?
The old USSR helped the Miners when they were on Strike as you know NGB, Thatcher didn’t like it at the time and tried to block donations from the USSR. A Judge had blocked the Miners Union from using its funds, and the miners in USSR raised cash to help the struggling UK miners.
It’s quite interesting, I was only reading about this over the weekend. I know a lot of miners were really grateful of the USSR, Some was offered trips after the strike, one of my friends went and loved it.
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Putin was almost certainly aware, HB. He had warned that 100's of Russians were working at Bushehr Reactor plus a couple of other sites where Russia are building reactors with the Iranians. He stated that they are going nowhere and that striking them would have consequences.
https://x.com/DD_Geopolitics/status/1936172696553111877
He didn't randomly state this for no reason, obviously, and it seems a reasonable inference that he was informed. We can also reasonably infer that the Iranians also knew because of the evacuation and preparation of the site before the strikes. Roch earlier in the thread raised the notion, floated by some, that Trump is secretly working against Netanyahu. I think Alex Krainer articulated it well, can't remember where but will attempt to find it later. Whatever the truth there are a lot of unanswered questions.
In terms of the deal you mention, HB, a kind of trade off giving Trump and Putin a free hand in Iran and Ukraine respectively. I doubt this for a number of reasons though concede that nothing can be ruled out. It is however difficult to square that particular circle. The first point is that Russia/Putin need no-one's acquiescence to deal with Ukraine. No amount of US assistance can help Ukraine but Ukraine are constantly begging for assistance because without it they collapse rapidly. Also Ukraine are not a sovereign government and Zelensky and co are simply puppets of outside interests.
Iran on the other hand are not requesting military assistance and their government is not a proxy of Russia and is clearly sovereign and capable of defending themselves. Russia have made clear their position and are solidly on the side of Iran. Russia also have their own current large front against Empire and don't need distracting from that.
China also are heavily reliant on Iran as their 25 year 400 billion dollar strategic partnership demonstrates. They have two intelligence gathering ships currently in the Persian Gulf. The verified facts that can be agreed upon by all seem to point more towards the Roch/Krainer view that Netanyahu is being thrown under the bus. The non event "bombing" of Fordow, warned of and prepared for beforehand, lends credence to this view. Iran could easily have shot down the subsonic B2 bombers supposedly carrying massive bunker busters which negates any alleged stealth. They were warned in advance but chose not to even try? Why? Since the "bombing" of Fordow, Iran have increased the tempo of attacks on the occupiers again.
Trump's declaration of having destroyed Iran nuclear capability tends towards this theory also. He has basically said that US have done their bit and are now out unless Iran strikes US. Declaring victory and walking away, as it were. I agree, HB that there are clearly some moves that are, "hidden from view", and that some back-channel negotiations and manoeuvres have taken place. It appears that from what available facts there are, that Iran were party to those shenanigans and Israel are the heel.
I agree Gringo, I don’t think Trump would have done it without consultation. Putin isn’t afraid of anyone Gringo and plays the Audience however he wants. I just think, the discussions and phone calls between the two and the shift in policy regarding US and Ukraine makes me wonder what’s going on?
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https://x.com/ShaykhSulaiman/status/1937189882104803634
Al Udeid, US base in Qatar under attack!
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https://x.com/ShaykhSulaiman/status/1937189882104803634
Al Udeid, US base in Qatar under attack!
HA HA you beat me to it Gringo, just read it.
Credible threat against US base in Qatar, BBC understands
published at 17:09
17:09
BREAKING
Frank Gardner
Security correspondent
The BBC understands that there is "a credible threat" to the US-run Coalition Air Operations Centre at Al-Udeid in Qatar.
The country has temporarily closed its airspace and I’ve been told the airbase is at a state of high readiness.
The threat is believed to come from a potential Iranian missile attack.
Al-Udeid is a massive base outside the Qatari capital Doha and is home to US Centcom’s headquarters for all its air operations in the Middle East, where British military personnel also serve on rotation.
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https://x.com/ShaykhSulaiman/status/1937189882104803634
Al Udeid, US base in Qatar under attack!
Hope nothing to do with your son in law, HB
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HA HA you beat me to it Gringo, just read it.
Credible threat against US base in Qatar, BBC understands
published at 17:09
17:09
BREAKING
Frank Gardner
Security correspondent
The BBC understands that there is "a credible threat" to the US-run Coalition Air Operations Centre at Al-Udeid in Qatar.
The country has temporarily closed its airspace and I’ve been told the airbase is at a state of high readiness.
The threat is believed to come from a potential Iranian missile attack.
Al-Udeid is a massive base outside the Qatari capital Doha and is home to US Centcom’s headquarters for all its air operations in the Middle East, where British military personnel also serve on rotation.
Again, telegraphed in advance and an already evacuated airbase
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Hope nothing to do with your son in law, HB
No Gringo, thanks.
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Qatar 'strongly condemns' attack on US air base
published at 18:21
18:21
BREAKING
We're just hearing from Qatar's government, which has offered its "strong condemnation" of the attack on the al-Udeid Air Base.
Majed al-Ansari, official spokesperson for the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, writes on X: "We consider this a flagrant violation of the sovereignty of the State of Qatar, its airspace, international law, and the United Nations charter."
He says Qatar's air defence systems "successfully thwarted the attack and intercepted the Iranian missiles" and the base had been evacuated earlier.
He adds: "All necessary steps were taken to ensure the safety of personnel at the base, including Qatari Armed Forces members, friendly forces, and others.
"We confirm that no injuries or human casualties resulted from the attack."
The spokesperson says Qatar reserves the right to respond "in a manner equivalent with the nature and scale of this brazen aggression".
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Again, telegraphed in advance and an already evacuated airbase
What do you make of that Gringo, it seems everyone warns each other now days when a missile is going to be fired?
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What do you make of that Gringo, it seems everyone warns each other now days when a missile is going to be fired?
Other US bases also under attack in Iraq. These attacks may not be playing by those same rules, HB. This looks like Iran is giving US a severe response.
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Iranian missiles getting intercepted over the sky of Qatar
https://iran.liveuamap.com/en/2025/23-june-16-more-footage-has-reportedly-surfaced-showing-the (https://iran.liveuamap.com/en/2025/23-june-16-more-footage-has-reportedly-surfaced-showing-the)
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https://x.com/nicksortor/status/1937238787832074444
PRESIDENT TRUMP RESPONDS TO IRAN LAUNCHES
“I want to thank Iran for giving us early notice, which made it possible for no lives to be lost, and nobody to be injured. Perhaps Iran can now proceed to Peace and Harmony in the Region, and I will enthusiastically encourage Israel to do the same.”
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Trumps latest post
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Again, telegraphed in advance and an already evacuated airbase
Seems Trump has raised the white flag Gringo? Wonder if Putin put pressure on him as well?
Iran state TV news channel IRINN says a ceasefire has been “imposed” on Israel following the “successful” Iranian attack on the US base in Qatar.
State TV said in a statement that Trump “begged” for a ceasefire following Iran’s attack. The statement was read aloud by the presenter.
The statement also hailed Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) and the Army and praised the “resistance” of Iranians.
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Seems Trump has raised the white flag Gringo? Wonder if Putin put pressure on him as well?
Iran state TV news channel IRINN says a ceasefire has been “imposed” on Israel following the “successful” Iranian attack on the US base in Qatar.
State TV said in a statement that Trump “begged” for a ceasefire following Iran’s attack. The statement was read aloud by the presenter.
The statement also hailed Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) and the Army and praised the “resistance” of Iranians.
This from Trump
Israel and Iran came to me almost simultaneously, and said, peace!' - Trump
published at 03:45
03:45
US President Donald Trump says Israel and Iran approached him "almost simultaneously, and said, peace". At this point, "I knew the time was now" he wrote in a post on Truth social.
Referring to the ceasefire he declared, he continued: "The world and the Middle East are the real winners. Both nations will see tremendous love, peace and prosperity in their futures".
Neither Iran nor Israel have accepted the ceasefire publicly, though Iran signalled it would stop striking Israel if Israel stopped striking Iran.
Writing that the two countries "Have so much to gain, and yet, so much to lose if they stray from the road of righteousness and truth," he finished the post adding that Israel and Iran's futures are "unlimited and filled with great promise. God bless you both!"
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Trump getting p****ed off...
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/06/24/iran-israel-war-ceasefire-trump-latest-news/
https://www.aljazeera.com/
What an a***hole that Israel Katz is. Can't stand him.
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Pinched from an FB poster:
Iran needs to read the situation for what it is. 1. USA administration / AIPAC / CIA and Israel are one and the same. That is an irrefutable fact. 2. Israel / USA only agreed to GAZA ceasefires to gain time to resupply arms to Israel. 3. They reneged on both ceasefire agreements = they cannot possibly be trusted. 4. While Iran was in diplomatic talks with USA / UN re nuclear enrichment, the Iranian scientists and Military commanders were somehow wired to tracking systems, which were used to locate and kill them when Israel attacked. 5 Donald Trump then threatened to attack immediately should Iran attack Israel, but didn’t, instead saying he would wait two weeks to decide what to do – he then attacked Iran within that time period. Iran has simply done what it has warned it is going to do and has not wavered. They then attacked USA bases Iraq and Qatar as they warned… in the face of trump threatening all out war… 6. Trump has then makes an announcement that USA has entered a ceasefire deal with Iran, and that Iran must cease firing first… 7. Iran has not confirmed they have any such agreement. 8 Donald trump lying again as he has done on several occasions re Ukraine and GAZA. Iran must continue with its plan to irradicate all USA military sites in Middle East. The zion nazis are needing time for the aircraft carriers to get close enough to attack. 10. Iran is now in a position to pummel Israel into unconditional surrender, and to insist USA / AIPAC / CIA cease all aggression in GAZA and Westbank… That is the reality of the situation and the only way to rid the Middle East of zion nazi crusaders once and for all.
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They are not his sons. They are the vice president. The foreign secretary and defence secretary. I have used GB titles for these ministers
So they are! I only had a quick look and mistook JD Vance for Donald Trump Jnr and Pete Hesgeth for Eric Trump. To my eye the former look similar.
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So they are! I only had a quick look and mistook JD Vance for Donald Trump Jnr and Pete Hesgeth for Eric Trump. To my eye the former look similar.
You've got Hugo Backache, or whatever his name is, on the brain which is clouding your judgement. ::)
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CC/Curiosity will be very relieved at the ceasefire. Closing the strait of Hormuz would have effected global alcohol prices.
https://wits.worldbank.org/trade/comtrade/en/country/IRN/year/2022/tradeflow/Exports/partner/ALL/product/290511 (https://wits.worldbank.org/trade/comtrade/en/country/IRN/year/2022/tradeflow/Exports/partner/ALL/product/290511)
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CC/Curiosity will be very relieved at the ceasefire. Closing the strait of Hormuz would have effected global alcohol prices.
https://wits.worldbank.org/trade/comtrade/en/country/IRN/year/2022/tradeflow/Exports/partner/ALL/product/290511 (https://wits.worldbank.org/trade/comtrade/en/country/IRN/year/2022/tradeflow/Exports/partner/ALL/product/290511)
Says more about your understanding of chemistry than anthing or anyone else.
You're a prized numpty who keeps on giving :))
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Mods please note this is the second time David has made an unprovoked comment. The first I let go. The recent one I've responded to. But what tends to happen is others then feel compelled to come to David's rescue and I end up getting the blame >:(
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So they are! I only had a quick look and mistook JD Vance for Donald Trump Jnr and Pete Hesgeth for Eric Trump. To my eye the former look similar.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=914718367367478&id=100064879684661&set=a.651777180328266
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Mods please note this is the second time David has made an unprovoked comment. The first I let go. The recent one I've responded to. But what tends to happen is others then feel compelled to come to David's rescue and I end up getting the blame >:(
He'll eventually get tired of baiting when he realizes it isn't having the desired effect.
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Pinched from an FB poster:
Iran needs to read the situation for what it is. 1. USA administration / AIPAC / CIA and Israel are one and the same. That is an irrefutable fact. 2. Israel / USA only agreed to GAZA ceasefires to gain time to resupply arms to Israel. 3. They reneged on both ceasefire agreements = they cannot possibly be trusted. 4. While Iran was in diplomatic talks with USA / UN re nuclear enrichment, the Iranian scientists and Military commanders were somehow wired to tracking systems, which were used to locate and kill them when Israel attacked. 5 Donald Trump then threatened to attack immediately should Iran attack Israel, but didn’t, instead saying he would wait two weeks to decide what to do – he then attacked Iran within that time period. Iran has simply done what it has warned it is going to do and has not wavered. They then attacked USA bases Iraq and Qatar as they warned… in the face of trump threatening all out war… 6. Trump has then makes an announcement that USA has entered a ceasefire deal with Iran, and that Iran must cease firing first… 7. Iran has not confirmed they have any such agreement. 8 Donald trump lying again as he has done on several occasions re Ukraine and GAZA. Iran must continue with its plan to irradicate all USA military sites in Middle East. The zion nazis are needing time for the aircraft carriers to get close enough to attack. 10. Iran is now in a position to pummel Israel into unconditional surrender, and to insist USA / AIPAC / CIA cease all aggression in GAZA and Westbank… That is the reality of the situation and the only way to rid the Middle East of zion nazi crusaders once and for all.
Empire needs a “time out” again, Roch. One outcome of this round of hostilities is the breaking of the myth of Israeli power and their sense of impunity. That can never be brought back. Iran’s missiles and the destruction they have wreaked will have a huge impact psychologically on the occupiers. Israel is on the verge of disintegration in my opinion.
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Mods please note this is the second time David has made an unprovoked comment. The first I let go. The recent one I've responded to. But what tends to happen is others then feel compelled to come to David's rescue and I end up getting the blame >:(
David only discredits himself with his nonsense, CC. Many of his “contributions” are simply goading that makes him look a tit. Nobody reads the comments you refer to and think,
“Ha that showed CC, yeah alcohol prices ha ha, owned by David”.
Clown faces and childish goading makes up the majority of David’s posts. He only demonstrates that proper discussion on these threads is above his reading level.
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Clown faces and childish goading makes up the majority of David’s posts. He only demonstrates that proper discussion on these threads is above his reading level.
Clown faces and the fact the passage of time will tell is all one really needs when it comes to you Gringo. :))
. US are powerless to intervene. The development of accurate and un-interceptable hypersonic missiles has made their isolated bases all over the Middle East indefensible.
🤡
Everyone who matters understands the price of attacking Iran is way too high. You either don’t or choose not to but there will be no direct attack on Iran.
🤡
Israel couldn’t strike Iranian launch sites. How will they do this? You do know the distance between Iran and Israel, I take it. Iran’s sites are buried underground and in mountains. Israel have no ground based missile capability that could reach Iran, never mind take out their launch sites. Israeli planes can’t reach Iran without refuelling, airspace closed off to them.
🤡
Turkey's current position is extremely fragile and leads inevitably to the Syrian govt. recovering the entirety of the north of the country. Their terrorist proxies will be utterly defeated when the inevitable attack comes.
🤡
Syria will, as Assad has promised, recover every inch of Syrian soil from the illegal occupiers, including the Golan Heights.
🤡
This is only scratching the surface of the disarray in the supposed Ukrainian leadership. It will soon only exist only as a land-locked rump state, at best. Odessa will not be left to Ukrainian governance.
🤡
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David, not so long back, amongst other things, you were certain that not only were hypersonic and anti ship missiles imaginary but rather than making Aircraft Carriers sitting ducks they would be intercepted by super lasers. You also claimed that Empire had hypersonic anyway. If you have been paying attention then you would understand that Odessa will become autonomous or part of Russia. The long promised running out of everything never happened, just as I told you. Your claims of Russia not being able beat Ukraine in three weeks or days or whatever were bullshit because Russia has all the time it takes to defeat not Ukraine but NATO. There economy didn’ crash with sanctions, just as I told you. Russia are crushing NATO and their proxies, something even acknowledged now in NATO countries. You expected a “weak Russia” to be brought to heel by NATO. Instead it is NATO crying uncle and begging ceasefires, just as I told you.
You really are a sad arse, pathetically trawling posts and posting clown faces or goading. Most of my commentary on the Russia threads has been prescient. You were expecting the rapid and abject defeat of Russia. You couldn’t have been more wrong.
In terms of the current Iran/Israel tête-à-tête, again it has now been established that Iran cannot be attacked because they can inflict too much damage back. “Settlers” who aren’t used tho being under fire will carry on leaving Israel. Their aura is gone, David. Iran have destroyed many military and intelligence facilities and got missiles through at will despite help from all NATO and Arab satraps. The Qataris confirmed that it was Israel asking for the ceasefire. Iran, Russia and China are all working on the Empire’s death by a thousand cuts, just as I told you and that strategy is working. You serve only to disrupt these threads and discussions. Nobody but you is goading. Everybody else are having a conversation without goading or clown faces. You ought to join in properly or get back to your crayons
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David, not so long back, amongst other things, you were certain that not only were hypersonic and anti ship missiles imaginary but rather than making Aircraft Carriers sitting ducks they would be intercepted by super lasers. You also claimed that Empire had hypersonic anyway. If you have been paying attention then you would understand that Odessa will become autonomous or part of Russia. The long promised running out of everything never happened, just as I told you. Your claims of Russia not being able beat Ukraine in three weeks or days or whatever were bullshit because Russia has all the time it takes to defeat not Ukraine but NATO. There economy didn’ crash with sanctions, just as I told you. Russia are crushing NATO and their proxies, something even acknowledged now in NATO countries. You expected a “weak Russia” to be brought to heel by NATO. Instead it is NATO crying uncle and begging ceasefires, just as I told you.
You really are a sad arse, pathetically trawling posts and posting clown faces or goading. Most of my commentary on the Russia threads has been prescient. You were expecting the rapid and abject defeat of Russia. You couldn’t have been more wrong.
In terms of the current Iran/Israel tête-à-tête, again it has now been established that Iran cannot be attacked because they can inflict too much damage back. “Settlers” who aren’t used tho being under fire will carry on leaving Israel. Their aura is gone, David. Iran have destroyed many military and intelligence facilities and got missiles through at will despite help from all NATO and Arab satraps. The Qataris confirmed that it was Israel asking for the ceasefire. Iran, Russia and China are all working on the Empire’s death by a thousand cuts, just as I told you and that strategy is working. You serve only to disrupt these threads and discussions. Nobody but you is goading. Everybody else are having a conversation without goading or clown faces. You ought to join in properly or get back to your crayons
Your circus show continues :))
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What do you make of that Gringo, it seems everyone warns each other now days when a missile is going to be fired?
Is it theatre HB, in order to de-escalate. We have been here before very recently. I am sure that you remember the assassination of General Soleimani by the US in Baghdad for which Iran vowed revenge. In response Iran attacked two US bases in Iraq, which they warned of in advance via the Swiss. Trump loudly proclaimed, then as now, that any Iranian response would be met with massive consequences should any US service personnel be harmed. US at first claimed no injuries were suffered but within a week or so it was admitted out that over a hundred personnel were harmed. US didn't respond to the Iranian retaliation, at least directly, and things were de-escalated (if that is the correct term) to the status quo of merely simmering tension.
The moves between US and Iran are similar to the previous round described above. This time, however, there is the added "Pandora's Box" of the Iran, Israel conflict. The failed attempt at regime change was a move born of desperation, not strategy. The ceasefire/not ceasefire has dragged NATO into funding another unwinnable attritional war whilst the West sinks ever deeper into economic meltdown, civil unrest and irrelevance. Many western leaders are in a similar position to Netanyahu. They need turmoil to stay in power and save their corrupt skins. When the day after reckoning comes, they are finished. They have all acted against their own national interests and were all in on breaking up Russia and China and reaping the benefits. That bet made with assets not yet controlled is lost and the cost will have to be paid. Like Netanyahu, they are in a trap of their own making and will carry on spending the lives of others, to save their own until forcefully stopped. The whole Western world seems like a giant teetering Jenga tower. Not many more blocks to go until the whole tower collapses.
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Weighing everything up in the aftermath of the latest round, how do other posters see the current position? Who is stronger? Who is weaker? Why? How? etc. Will the supposed ceasefire hold? For how long? What happens in the next round, which seems inevitable? or ...?
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Weighing everything up in the aftermath of the latest round, how do other posters see the current position? Who is stronger? Who is weaker? Why? How? etc. Will the supposed ceasefire hold? For how long? What happens in the next round, which seems inevitable? or ...?
The West is in panic mode Gringo and has been for a while. Putin has caused the biggest pain on the West, he caused a shock to the global economies triggering high inflation. Everyone keeps saying that Russia is on its knees, three years on it keeps marching on. Out of all the leaders, Putin is the smartest and plays the part well. He could have flattened Ukraine, he doesn’t want that though, he wants the Country and the People, I think that will happen one day through elections when he has someone Pro Russia in place?
Israel and Iran, again, the West is frightened to open the Pandora box, like you say, it would cause a massive spike to inflation again and the West couldn’t sustain such, they are frightened of the consequences of terrorists within their own Countries, it wouldn’t affect Russia or China etc it would help them. Israel have come out worst both in credibility and Respect, in terms of the 12 day war, I’m not sure yet Gringo, if they haven't succeeded in their objectives along with the USA to thwart the Nuclear programme, then they have failed. But like they have said, from Iran’s perspective, it could only be a set back and it might make them more determined after this Gringo? After all, You cannot take the knowledge out of their head?
The cease fire will hold for as long as Iran wants it to in my opinion, Trump doesn’t want to break it so Israel will not be allowed to, Iran might try to push Israel to do such and further anger Trump?
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Weighing everything up in the aftermath of the latest round, how do other posters see the current position? Who is stronger? Who is weaker? Why? How? etc. Will the supposed ceasefire hold? For how long? What happens in the next round, which seems inevitable? or ...?
Israel will need to adjust it's A/D. It will get restocked. They will study footage of how missiles got through and how decoys might have been used. Israel will now be frightened of Iran's missile capability.
Iran needs to urgently replenish and continue with R & D to keep ahead. It's ballistics strategy worked. Not sure it's A/D worked well with Israeli missiles. They need to understand how Israelis located the scientists and military. They need to publish details of which family members where killed. They need to obtain evidence of military and strategic targets they hit and advertise it.
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The West is in panic mode Gringo and has been for a while. Putin has caused the biggest pain on the West, he caused a shock to the global economies triggering high inflation. Everyone keeps saying that Russia is on its knees, three years on it keeps marching on. Out of all the leaders, Putin is the smartest and plays the part well. He could have flattened Ukraine, he doesn’t want that though, he wants the Country and the People, I think that will happen one day through elections when he has someone Pro Russia in place?
Israel and Iran, again, the West is frightened to open the Pandora box, like you say, it would cause a massive spike to inflation again and the West couldn’t sustain such, they are frightened of the consequences of terrorists within their own Countries, it wouldn’t affect Russia or China etc it would help them. Israel have come out worst both in credibility and Respect, in terms of the 12 day war, I’m not sure yet Gringo, if they haven't succeeded in their objectives along with the USA to thwart the Nuclear programme, then they have failed. But like they have said, from Iran’s perspective, it could only be a set back and it might make them more determined after this Gringo? After all, You cannot take the knowledge out of their head?
The cease fire will hold for as long as Iran wants it to in my opinion, Trump doesn’t want to break it so Israel will not be allowed to, Iran might try to push Israel to do such and further anger Trump?
In the days following the U.S. bombing of Iranian nuclear test sides, reports indicated the sites were severely damaged but not totally destroyed. Experts point out that nuclear bombs are based on 80-year-old technology and Iran still has the knowledge and means to build new enrichment centrifuges.
Uriel Abulof, a visiting professor in Cornell University’s government department and a professor of politics at Tel-Aviv University, published a case study in the journal Politics and Policy: "Nuclear Diversion Theory and Legitimacy Crisis: The Case of Iran."
Abulof says: “In the aftermath of recent regional escalations, there’s a growing risk of repeating a familiar—and dangerous—pattern: ceasefire, self-congratulation, and strategic blindness. Iran’s leadership, emboldened by survival rather than victory, may be quietly advancing toward a nuclear breakout under the radar.
“A messianic Iranian regime under siege, armed with just enough nuclear capability to be dangerous, is the darkest kind of threat. With only 50 advanced centrifuges (IR-6), Iran could enrich 50–60 kg of uranium from 60% to weapons-grade (90%) within weeks—enough for a basic atomic bomb. That bomb wouldn’t need to be launched on a missile. It could be assembled covertly, without a nuclear test, and delivered in a truck or a shipping container."
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In the days following the U.S. bombing of Iranian nuclear test sides, reports indicated the sites were severely damaged but not totally destroyed. Experts point out that nuclear bombs are based on 80-year-old technology and Iran still has the knowledge and means to build new enrichment centrifuges.
Uriel Abulof, a visiting professor in Cornell University’s government department and a professor of politics at Tel-Aviv University, published a case study in the journal Politics and Policy: "Nuclear Diversion Theory and Legitimacy Crisis: The Case of Iran."
Abulof says: “In the aftermath of recent regional escalations, there’s a growing risk of repeating a familiar—and dangerous—pattern: ceasefire, self-congratulation, and strategic blindness. Iran’s leadership, emboldened by survival rather than victory, may be quietly advancing toward a nuclear breakout under the radar.
“A messianic Iranian regime under siege, armed with just enough nuclear capability to be dangerous, is the darkest kind of threat. With only 50 advanced centrifuges (IR-6), Iran could enrich 50–60 kg of uranium from 60% to weapons-grade (90%) within weeks—enough for a basic atomic bomb. That bomb wouldn’t need to be launched on a missile. It could be assembled covertly, without a nuclear test, and delivered in a truck or a shipping container."
Got to admit, HB, reading that a Jewish Professor from Tel Aviv University is worried about a, " Messianic regime with enough nuclear capability to be dark and dangerous who may covertly assemble a nuclear bomb" is hilarious projection. Wonder how he thought of that plot
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Israel will need to adjust it's A/D. It will get restocked. They will study footage of how missiles got through and how decoys might have been used. Israel will now be frightened of Iran's missile capability.
Iran needs to urgently replenish and continue with R & D to keep ahead. It's ballistics strategy worked. Not sure it's A/D worked well with Israeli missiles. They need to understand how Israelis located the scientists and military. They need to publish details of which family members where killed. They need to obtain evidence of military and strategic targets they hit and advertise it.
That sounds a reasonable assessment, Roch. I think the whole of NATO, not just Israel, will now be frightened of the missile and AD capability that has been developed by Iran and others who are resisting Empire. As well as "re-stocking", I would also add that the West also need to catch up and need to invest in R & D themselves, not sure they have the time to do so now though. The gap in capability in demonstrably large.
Iran, as you observe, are certain to accelerate their own programme.
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Got to admit, HB, reading that a Jewish Professor from Tel Aviv University is worried about a, " Messianic regime with enough nuclear capability to be dark and dangerous who may covertly assemble a nuclear bomb" is hilarious projection. Wonder how he thought of that plot
Yes I did think that myself Gringo, it seems too far fetched in my opinion?
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The West is in panic mode Gringo and has been for a while. Putin has caused the biggest pain on the West, he caused a shock to the global economies triggering high inflation. Everyone keeps saying that Russia is on its knees, three years on it keeps marching on. Out of all the leaders, Putin is the smartest and plays the part well. He could have flattened Ukraine, he doesn’t want that though, he wants the Country and the People, I think that will happen one day through elections when he has someone Pro Russia in place?
Israel and Iran, again, the West is frightened to open the Pandora box, like you say, it would cause a massive spike to inflation again and the West couldn’t sustain such, they are frightened of the consequences of terrorists within their own Countries, it wouldn’t affect Russia or China etc it would help them. Israel have come out worst both in credibility and Respect, in terms of the 12 day war, I’m not sure yet Gringo, if they haven't succeeded in their objectives along with the USA to thwart the Nuclear programme, then they have failed. But like they have said, from Iran’s perspective, it could only be a set back and it might make them more determined after this Gringo? After all, You cannot take the knowledge out of their head?
The cease fire will hold for as long as Iran wants it to in my opinion, Trump doesn’t want to break it so Israel will not be allowed to, Iran might try to push Israel to do such and further anger Trump?
You can picture Corporal Jones running around the MOD right about now, "Don't panic, Don't panic". I think you are spot on, HB, in your assessment of the current state of the board. Putin is the smartest in the room, always. When the history is written, he will be remembered as the greatest Statesman of the 21st century. The entire current Western leadership will be lucky to be a footnote.
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You can picture Corporal Jones running around the MOD right about now, "Don't panic, Don't panic". I think you are spot on, HB, in your assessment of the current state of the board. Putin is the smartest in the room, always. When the history is written, he will be remembered as the greatest Statesman of the 21st century. The entire current Western leadership will be lucky to be a footnote.
Ha Ha, the West is full of the Jones’s, Watch Taiwan Next Gringo and the West will do nothing. Sanctions against China will hurt the West even more.
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Ha Ha, the West is full of the Jones’s, Watch Taiwan Next Gringo and the West will do nothing. Sanctions against China will hurt the West even more.
Nato Mark Rutte arse licking around Trump, it’s sickening to watch. “Daddy has to sometimes use strong Language ” for FFS.
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Weighing everything up in the aftermath of the latest round, how do other posters see the current position? Who is stronger? Who is weaker? Why? How? etc. Will the supposed ceasefire hold? For how long? What happens in the next round, which seems inevitable? or ...?
Both sides are likely low on missiles and just want to replenish stocks.
The Israeli's are more confident in going into Iranian airspace now. The fact its taken them up until now to strike the nuclear facilities shows they have for a long time considered it something very risky and overestimate the task.
The next round will probably be no different than the others.
Putin said he is trying to stay neutral as their are a large number of Russian-speaking Israelis.
Its been humiliating for the Iranian government and they will probably seek revenge somehow.
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Yes I did think that myself Gringo, it seems too far fetched in my opinion?
Denuclearization of the middle east will only happen if Israel, Iran, Pakistan and India all come together and agree to Denuclearization and they all trust each-other in doing so. But this is idealistic and will never happen.
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Yes I did think that myself Gringo, it seems too far fetched in my opinion?
I was being sarcastic about the Zionist regime, HB, who actually are, “a messianic regime with enough nuclear material to be dark and dangerous who covertly assembled a nuclear weapon”.
The projection is hilarious.
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Both sides are likely low on missiles and just want to replenish stocks.
The Israeli's are more confident in going into Iranian airspace now. The fact its taken them up until now to strike the nuclear facilities shows they have for a long time considered it something very risky and overestimate the task.
The next round will probably be no different than the others.
Putin said he is trying to stay neutral as their are a large number of Russian-speaking Israelis.
Its been humiliating for the Iranian government and they will probably seek revenge somehow.
And not a clown face in sight, David. There is general consensus, not just here but across the breadth of commentary that the time out/ ceasefire- whatever we call it- was welcome to both sides for different reasons. It is also generally acknowledged that Iran have many more missiles than Israel have interceptors. It is also acknowledged that Israel asked for the ceasefire, after being the initiator of the current round. The damage to both sides is significant, David, and we can agree that a ceasefire is welcome to both sides.
It is worth noting that Israeli defences were pierced at will despite multi layers of extra defence provided by Arab states and NATO navies and air forces. It is wholly unsustainable for that amount of assets to be deployed simply as AD for Israel, especially given the fact Iran can still pentrate at will. It seems that Iran have problems to solve but Israel have greater, probably unsolvable problems.
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And not a clown face in sight, David. There is general consensus, not just here but across the breadth of commentary that the time out/ ceasefire- whatever we call it- was welcome to both sides for different reasons. It is also generally acknowledged that Iran have many more missiles than Israel have interceptors. It is also acknowledged that Israel asked for the ceasefire, after being the initiator of the current round. The damage to both sides is significant, David, and we can agree that a ceasefire is welcome to both sides.
It is worth noting that Israeli defences were pierced at will despite multi layers of extra defence provided by Arab states and NATO navies and air forces. It is wholly unsustainable for that amount of assets to be deployed simply as AD for Israel, especially given the fact Iran can still pentrate at will. It seems that Iran have problems to solve but Israel have greater, probably unsolvable problems.
The Israeli air-force has resorted to strike Iranian missile launch sites. The Iranians don't have modern aircraft or modern SAMs to counter this.
American war ships are mostly there to prevent the Iranians from closing the Strait of Hormuz. This was also done in the Iraq Iran war (The tanker war).
Overall it was a disraction away from Gaza (at Irans expense).
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The Israeli air-force has resorted to strike Iranian missile launch sites. The Iranians don't have modern aircraft or modern SAMs to counter this.
American war ships are mostly there to prevent the Iranians from closing the Strait of Hormuz. This was also done in the Iraq Iran war (The tanker war).
Overall it was a disraction away from Gaza (at Irans expense).
Iran have many options in closing the Strait of Hormuz that no amount of warships could prevent, David, not to mention that in a gloves off conflict, warships will be amongst the first targets at such close range. Warships in all out gloves off WW3 will be as effective as Cavalry would have been in WW2. As artillery and tanks rendered cavalry obsolete, warships have also met their moment of obsolescence. Anti ship missiles and drones are to warships as artillery/tanks were to cavalry.
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The Israeli air-force has resorted to strike Iranian missile launch sites. The Iranians don't have modern aircraft or modern SAMs to counter this.
American war ships are mostly there to prevent the Iranians from closing the Strait of Hormuz. This was also done in the Iraq Iran war (The tanker war).
Overall it was a disraction away from Gaza (at Irans expense).
It is good to see you engaging seriously, David. Your views will be against the general consensus here but it is better that views challenging that general consensus are posted in the manner you are posting now. Let's hold the ceasefire longer than the Iran/Israel one is likely to last (an admittedly low bar)
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Nato Mark Rutte arse licking around Trump, it’s sickening to watch. “Daddy has to sometimes use strong Language ” for FFS.
:-[ It is pathetic to witness, HB
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:-[ It is pathetic to witness, HB
Like Fiona Hill said…………NATO seemed briefly to have turned into the North Atlantic TRUMP Organization. They’re falling at his feet Gringo and for what, this guy openly say’s “America First”. How’s that going forward and help for NATO’s……….ONE FOR ALL POLICY?
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Nato Mark Rutte arse licking around Trump, it’s sickening to watch. “Daddy has to sometimes use strong Language ” for FFS.
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😂😂😂👍
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;D ;D
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Iran have many options in closing the Strait of Hormuz that no amount of warships could prevent, David, not to mention that in a gloves off conflict, warships will be amongst the first targets at such close range. Warships in all out gloves off WW3 will be as effective as Cavalry would have been in WW2. As artillery and tanks rendered cavalry obsolete, warships have also met their moment of obsolescence. Anti ship missiles and drones are to warships as artillery/tanks were to cavalry.
There is no way they can block off the straight and hold off the USN. They have no peer adversary.
Warships have existed for thousands of years and I expect they will continue to evolve for perhaps a thousand more.
13 Japanese aircraft carriers and 7 Americans aircraft carriers lay at the bottom of the pacific from WW2. Yet they have been replaced and improved.
One of those 13 Japanese carriers was actually a submarine that could launch planes.
https://youtu.be/-1AJurcSWCw?feature=shared&t=1308 (https://youtu.be/-1AJurcSWCw?feature=shared&t=1308)
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You've got Hugo Backache, or whatever his name is, on the brain which is clouding your judgement. ::)
He is undoubtedly the complete package :-*
https://x.com/BBCBreakfast/status/1562308473282772995
Love the big furry microphone ;)
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He is undoubtedly the complete package :-*
https://x.com/BBCBreakfast/status/1562308473282772995
Love the big furry microphone ;)
I find him a bit hard to listen to. Maybe it's because he's moving around whilst talking, added to English not being his first language.
Rather an overweening biography to digest. In fact, I wasn't sure whether I was reading about a BBC journalist or Saint Francis of Assisi. https://baddiehu.wordpress.com/2025/02/24/hugo-bachega/
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I find him a bit hard to listen to. Maybe it's because he's moving around whilst talking, added to English not being his first language.
Rather an overweening biography to digest. In fact, I wasn't sure whether I was reading about a BBC journalist or Saint Francis of Assisi. https://baddiehu.wordpress.com/2025/02/24/hugo-bachega/
I like his accent/voice and have no problem understanding him. I like to imagine him pouring me a chilled glass of Whispering Angel whilst simultaneously giving me the low-down on geo politics ;D
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There is no way they can block off the straight and hold off the USN. They have no peer adversary.
Warships have existed for thousands of years and I expect they will continue to evolve for perhaps a thousand more.
13 Japanese aircraft carriers and 7 Americans aircraft carriers lay at the bottom of the pacific from WW2. Yet they have been replaced and improved.
One of those 13 Japanese carriers was actually a submarine that could launch planes.
https://youtu.be/-1AJurcSWCw?feature=shared&t=1308 (https://youtu.be/-1AJurcSWCw?feature=shared&t=1308)
You are at odds with US intel and all interested parties in that view, David. Iran are unlikely to do so but the capability to close it isn't really disputed. I expect naval power will evolve in some ways, probably some form of unmanned drones, but Aircraft Carrier strike groups are already becoming neutralised. The Yemenis (AnsarAllah) caused so many problems that they forced a number of Carrier Groups to retreat. Iran's anti shipping capabilities are magnitudes greater than AnsarAllah. The counter measures to Carrier Groups are akin to artillery versus cavalry charges and have made them redundant already in any serious war. There are anyway a multitude of ways to close the Strait of Hormuz. Mines, marine drones for starters would close the Strait to commercial shipping. How would US navy operating in the narrow confines of the SoH be able to tackle even the above without being targets themselves? Iran are playing a "home game" David and this is the most relevant factor.
It is generally accepted, even by US intel, that Iran could close the Strait. It is a card that Iran holds that impacts on all other decisions in the attempts to subdue Iran. US navy couldn't prevent the closure, David. Iran don't need to be a "peer adversary" in naval power to close Strait of Hormuz.
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You are at odds with US intel and all interested parties in that view, David. Iran are unlikely to do so but the capability to close it isn't really disputed. I expect naval power will evolve in some ways, probably some form of unmanned drones, but Aircraft Carrier strike groups are already becoming neutralised. The Yemenis (AnsarAllah) caused so many problems that they forced a number of Carrier Groups to retreat. Iran's anti shipping capabilities are magnitudes greater than AnsarAllah. The counter measures to Carrier Groups are akin to artillery versus cavalry charges and have made them redundant already in any serious war. There are anyway a multitude of ways to close the Strait of Hormuz. Mines, marine drones for starters would close the Strait to commercial shipping. How would US navy operating in the narrow confines of the SoH be able to tackle even the above without being targets themselves? Iran are playing a "home game" David and this is the most relevant factor.
It is generally accepted, even by US intel, that Iran could close the Strait. It is a card that Iran holds that impacts on all other decisions in the attempts to subdue Iran. US navy couldn't prevent the closure, David. Iran don't need to be a "peer adversary" in naval power to close Strait of Hormuz.
There is no way a green water navy defeats a blue water navy. Its not even debatable.
Naval defences are adapting to new threats https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJROWdRN7N0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJROWdRN7N0)
According to Claude -
"Iran technically has the capability to disrupt the Strait of Hormuz, but fully closing it would be extremely difficult and comes with significant risks for Iran itself.
**Iran's Capabilities:**
Iran possesses approximately five thousand to six thousand naval mines, according to US intelligence estimates. Iran has the capability to deploy large quantities of these mines in the narrow passage of the Strait of Hormuz shipping lane. With thousands each of naval mines, attack UAVs, and missiles in its arsenal, Iran has the capacity to disrupt shipping in the Strait of Hormuz.
**Why Iran Likely Won't Close It:**
But the possibility of a closure of the strait is low, experts said, despite Tehran's rhetoric around closing the strait. A closure would provoke Iran's markets in Asia, particularly China, which accounts for a majority of Iranian oil exports. Iran in its weakened state is unlikely to seek escalation of that kind at this time.
**The Strategic Reality:**
As of June 2025, the Strait has never been closed during Middle East conflicts, and in the face of a determined US response, Iran is not capable of completely closing the strait. The waterway is only 21 miles wide at its narrowest point, but there are other navigable paths beyond the main shipping lanes.
**Economic Stakes:**
About 20% of global oil consumption flows through the strait daily - roughly 20 million barrels. Closing it would hurt Iran's own economy since China buys about 90% of Iran's oil exports. If they do that, the first people that should be angry about it are the Chinese government, because a lot of their oil comes through there.
So while Iran has the military means to disrupt shipping, actually closing the strait would be "economic suicide" that would likely trigger massive international retaliation while harming Iran's own vital oil exports."
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There is no way a green water navy defeats a blue water navy. Its not even debatable.
Naval defences are adapting to new threats https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJROWdRN7N0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJROWdRN7N0)
According to Claude -
"Iran technically has the capability to disrupt the Strait of Hormuz, but fully closing it would be extremely difficult and comes with significant risks for Iran itself.
**Iran's Capabilities:**
Iran possesses approximately five thousand to six thousand naval mines, according to US intelligence estimates. Iran has the capability to deploy large quantities of these mines in the narrow passage of the Strait of Hormuz shipping lane. With thousands each of naval mines, attack UAVs, and missiles in its arsenal, Iran has the capacity to disrupt shipping in the Strait of Hormuz.
**Why Iran Likely Won't Close It:**
But the possibility of a closure of the strait is low, experts said, despite Tehran's rhetoric around closing the strait. A closure would provoke Iran's markets in Asia, particularly China, which accounts for a majority of Iranian oil exports. Iran in its weakened state is unlikely to seek escalation of that kind at this time.
**The Strategic Reality:**
As of June 2025, the Strait has never been closed during Middle East conflicts, and in the face of a determined US response, Iran is not capable of completely closing the strait. The waterway is only 21 miles wide at its narrowest point, but there are other navigable paths beyond the main shipping lanes.
**Economic Stakes:**
About 20% of global oil consumption flows through the strait daily - roughly 20 million barrels. Closing it would hurt Iran's own economy since China buys about 90% of Iran's oil exports. If they do that, the first people that should be angry about it are the Chinese government, because a lot of their oil comes through there.
So while Iran has the military means to disrupt shipping, actually closing the strait would be "economic suicide" that would likely trigger massive international retaliation while harming Iran's own vital oil exports."
Claude is not a serious source, David. AnsarAllah forced away several Carrier Groups from the Red Sea. This is just a fact. Iran and Strait of Hormuz is a more formidable challenge, by magnitudes. No serious and objective person believes that US Navy could prevent a determined Iran closing SoH.
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Wonder if there is any truth in this..
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Wonder if there is any truth in this..
😂
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Wonder if there is any truth in this..
Where is it from, Roch?
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Where is it from, Roch?
It was just a lone reply on one of the posts on Iran Military FB page.
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😂
We're giving Syria 83M according to Express. A country ran by ex-Al Qeda @ senior level.
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😂
https://www.facebook.com/share/p/1GsE2rXjWf/
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https://www.facebook.com/share/p/1GsE2rXjWf/
This follows a familiar pattern. Do you remember the UK support for that "freedom fighter" Bin Laden and he fellow Mujahidin gang in Afghanistan? That resulted in the overthrow of the decent society that existed there at the time, and ended really well generally for the western world!
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😂
https://www.facebook.com/share/16FzM3uPU1/
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This follows a familiar pattern. Do you remember the UK support for that "freedom fighter" Bin Laden and he fellow Mujahidin gang in Afghanistan? That resulted in the overthrow of the decent society that existed there at the time, and ended really well generally for the western world!
It was long before I took an interest in this type of thing. I do remember USA being criticised for having built up Sadam as a bulwark against Iran, before attacking Iraq in the first gulf war.
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We're giving Syria 83M according to Express. A country ran by ex-Al Qeda @ senior level.
Its a pledge not a hand out.
Trump said “But I was very impressed by him. But we took the sanctions off because we want to give them a chance.”
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Its a pledge not a hand out.
Trump said “But I was very impressed by him. But we took the sanctions off because we want to give them a chance.”
What does the US (or Israel) get in return, for removing the sanctions?
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What does the US (or Israel) get in return, for removing the sanctions?
Improved relations and potential trade opportunities.
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Improved relations and potential trade opportunities.
So no Israeli / Mossad ran bases or weapons caches?
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So no Israeli / Mossad ran bases or weapons caches?
A former Al-Qaeda militant who's been congratulated by Hamas and recently freed Hamas fighters imprisoned by Assad is going to allow "Mossad ran bases" in his country? 😂
https://www.newarab.com/news/syria-president-frees-hamas-members-imprisoned-assad-report (https://www.newarab.com/news/syria-president-frees-hamas-members-imprisoned-assad-report)
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A former Al-Qaeda militant who's been congratulated by Hamas and recently freed Hamas fighters imprisoned by Assad is going to allow "Mossad ran bases" in his country? 😂
https://www.newarab.com/news/syria-president-frees-hamas-members-imprisoned-assad-report (https://www.newarab.com/news/syria-president-frees-hamas-members-imprisoned-assad-report)
Israel eyes ties with Syria and Lebanon after Iran war | Reuters https://share.google/TD0QJadOFU4jozwhm
Syria Is Notably Silent as Other Arab States Condemn Israeli Attacks on Iran - The New York Times https://share.google/oOuIF0XGARwwSMe7G
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Israel eyes ties with Syria and Lebanon after Iran war | Reuters https://share.google/TD0QJadOFU4jozwhm
Syria Is Notably Silent as Other Arab States Condemn Israeli Attacks on Iran - The New York Times https://share.google/oOuIF0XGARwwSMe7G
Sunni Syrians mostly hate Iran.
As for Lebanon the "Forbidden Bromance" is nothing new.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ForbiddenBromance/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/ForbiddenBromance/)