Iranian Strike

[Adam]

Trump should be out campaigning. But seems he will stuck in court for several months.

A campaign over world events would have been effective. He could say the current wars would not have happened with him in charge. The billions spent helping Ukraine could have been spent on the American people.

He also claims he would stop the war in Ukraine within 24 hours if re elected. Whether people believe that is another matter.

[Roch]

Trump should be out campaigning. But seems he will stuck in court for several months.

A campaign over world events would have been effective. He could say the current wars would not have happened with him in charge. The billions spent helping Ukraine could have been spent on the American people.

He also claims he would stop the war in Ukraine within 24 hours if re elected. Whether people believe that is another matter.

The world did feel safer. I don't know whether that was an illusion. 

[gringo]

The world did feel safer. I don't know whether that was an illusion.

   I’m in two minds about this, Roch, leaning towards illusion. Some of “Trumps” actions in office were equally acts of war and brought us to the brink. The murder of Iranian General Soleimani in Baghdad being probably the most egregious of these actions, in my view. The Iranian response on that occasion was to strike two US bases in Iraq with a volley of pinpoint missiles. “Trump” vowed, “if a single hair of any US personnel were harmed that Iran would be obliterated” or some such. As it turned out over 100 US personnel were injured as admitted by the U.S. after some weeks.
    Even this string of events allows for some ambiguity however. The US or “Trump” didn’t respond to the Iranian attack, which was a direct attack on US personnel. The fact that the Iranian response was legitimate was not a factor in the US non response. Whether this restraint by the US or “Trump” was because of “Trump” or informed by other factors is where some ambiguity lies. I don’t really believe it matters who the US president is. US restraint was more likely because of the demonstration of power by Iran and the obvious threat to all US bases in the Middle East should the US escalate. The US bases were hit only with missiles using kinetic power to damage the two U.S. bases, that is no warheads on the missiles. The implied threat is apparent to all.
     That is why I refer to Trump using inverted commas-I’m not sure that even Trump has complete agency to act unilaterally.
     I believe the damage is extensive at the two Israeli airbases and likewise with the attack on the US bases, there is a much larger implied threat waiting in the wings should Israel choose to escalate.

[gringo]

The Israeli Jericho 3 has a range of 5000km. An F-16 can fly 4000km with drop tanks. Airtankers can refuel aircrafts as long as they have air cover. They also have ballistic submarines that do visit the Persian Gulf.

Considering there was hardly any damaged caused. It would be unwise (IMO) for Israeli to retaliate. The Islamic theocracy in Iran is not very popular at home, and they probably want a retaliation to rally the people.

   F16’s would have zero chance of getting within range to bomb Iran. Israeli missiles likewise. The response from Iran would end Israel. Iran have demonstrated on numerous occasions that they have excellent air defence and missile technology. Remember the 11 miles high $200m drone that they took out a few years ago for briefly violating their airspace. The US were shocked that Iran had this capability, especially after years of harsh sanctions on the Iranians. All of their capability is Iranian produced and developed. This demonstration once again carried a bigger implied threat than the attack itself. Iran have, as usual, once again given a perfect measured response that carries an unmistakable message.
     It is a game of high stakes chess, David. At the moment it appears to me that all of the attacking moves available to the West have been nullified by the collective resistance to Western Imperialism. Like when you play ngb

[David1819]

   F16’s would have zero chance of getting within range to bomb Iran. Israeli missiles likewise. The response from Iran would end Israel. Iran have demonstrated on numerous occasions that they have excellent air defence and missile technology. Remember the 11 miles high $200m drone that they took out a few years ago for briefly violating their airspace.

A drone flying 11 miles above ground is more or less asking to be shot down. A co-ordinated strike into enemy territory of this nature will involve flying very low.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYouEQaoAPI

Moreover that drone was in international airspace (contrary to Iran's claims) and thus its operators where not anticipating any danger.

Military equipment is only as good as the competency and skill of those operating it. In Iran's case they struggle to distinguish between a cruise missile and a Boeing 737 that took off from their own capital city.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine_International_Airlines_Flight_752

David. At the moment it appears to me that all of the attacking moves available to the West have been nullified by the collective resistance to Western Imperialism. Like when you play ngb

Funnily enough, last Saturday I beat NGB at standard chess (no handicap) for the first time ever! After 183 games. If anything my games against NGB are like Iran's rockets vs Israel's Iron dome. 99% fail rate

I played white.

[gringo]

A drone flying 11 miles above ground is more or less asking to be shot down. A co-ordinated strike into enemy territory of this nature will involve flying very low.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYouEQaoAPI

Moreover that drone was in international airspace (contrary to Iran's claims) and thus its operators where not anticipating any danger.

Military equipment is only as good as the competency and skill of those operating it. In Iran's case they struggle to distinguish between a cruise missile and a Boeing 737 that took off from their own capital city.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine_International_Airlines_Flight_752

Funnily enough, last Saturday I beat NGB at standard chess (no handicap) for the first time ever! After 183 games. If anything my games against NGB are like Iran's rockets vs Israel's Iron dome. 99% fail rate

I played white.

    Iron dome intercepted none of the missiles that were meant to hit hence the two airbases and intel centre that were involved in the Damascus attack being struck. Iran sent a message and that message has been received. Israel needed U.S. and UK jets to take down some drones and missiles and cost them 1.3 billion dollars in air defence. What if Iran stepped up the scale by 10? What if they did this for a week/a month? Who do imagine would run out first? The scale and nature of the attack revealed much about the vulnerabilities of Israel which are many. Iran held back on using their most sophisticated weaponry and this is well understood by would be aggressors.
     The US cannot attack Iran because the moment they do every US base in the Middle East will be completely destroyed with tens of thousands of US casualties. Everyone who matters understands the price of attacking Iran is way too high. You either don’t or choose not to but there will be no direct attack on Iran. If Israel are mad enough to unilaterally attack anyway, there will be no direct involvement from the US.
      Iron dome demonstrably couldn’t cope with an attack using old slow drones and a few missiles and required US/UK to scramble jets to assist. Iran can multiply the scale by magnitudes. Israel can’t.

[Adam]

Another bill is going through America. This time for 61 billion to go to Ukraine.

The Ukrainian PM saying they need it 'yesterday'.

[gringo]

Another bill is going through America. This time for 61 billion to go to Ukraine.

The Ukrainian PM saying they need it 'yesterday'.

    They need a miracle. 61 billion won’t change anything

[Hardy Boy]

A drone flying 11 miles above ground is more or less asking to be shot down. A co-ordinated strike into enemy territory of this nature will involve flying very low.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYouEQaoAPI

Moreover that drone was in international airspace (contrary to Iran's claims) and thus its operators where not anticipating any danger.

Military equipment is only as good as the competency and skill of those operating it. In Iran's case they struggle to distinguish between a cruise missile and a Boeing 737 that took off from their own capital city.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine_International_Airlines_Flight_752

Funnily enough, last Saturday I beat NGB at standard chess (no handicap) for the first time ever! After 183 games. If anything my games against NGB are like Iran's rockets vs Israel's Iron dome. 99% fail rate

I played white.

Very well played David, I'm sure NGB will agree, you worked your Knights really well.

[ngb1066]

Funnily enough, last Saturday I beat NGB at standard chess (no handicap) for the first time ever! After 183 games. If anything my games against NGB are like Iran's rockets vs Israel's Iron dome. 99% fail rate

I played white.

You played well. 

[Roch]

   I’m in two minds about this, Roch, leaning towards illusion. Some of “Trumps” actions in office were equally acts of war and brought us to the brink. The murder of Iranian General Soleimani in Baghdad being probably the most egregious of these actions, in my view. The Iranian response on that occasion was to strike two US bases in Iraq with a volley of pinpoint missiles. “Trump” vowed, “if a single hair of any US personnel were harmed that Iran would be obliterated” or some such. As it turned out over 100 US personnel were injured as admitted by the U.S. after some weeks.
    Even this string of events allows for some ambiguity however. The US or “Trump” didn’t respond to the Iranian attack, which was a direct attack on US personnel. The fact that the Iranian response was legitimate was not a factor in the US non response. Whether this restraint by the US or “Trump” was because of “Trump” or informed by other factors is where some ambiguity lies. I don’t really believe it matters who the US president is. US restraint was more likely because of the demonstration of power by Iran and the obvious threat to all US bases in the Middle East should the US escalate. The US bases were hit only with missiles using kinetic power to damage the two U.S. bases, that is no warheads on the missiles. The implied threat is apparent to all.
     That is why I refer to Trump using inverted commas-I’m not sure that even Trump has complete agency to act unilaterally.
     I believe the damage is extensive at the two Israeli airbases and likewise with the attack on the US bases, there is a much larger implied threat waiting in the wings should Israel choose to escalate.

He seemed to alright with the North Koreans Gringo.

[David1819]

He seemed to alright with the North Koreans Gringo.

Although it made a positive impact on US North Korea relations. Trumps sole motive was his respect for authoritarianism.

He was close with Putin and Kim Jong-Un, because like attracts like. He tried to fraudulently and violently  impose a 2nd term Trump administration on his own people.

With all the criminal charges looming over his head. It would be rather shocking if he wins the next election. 

[Hardy Boy]

I feel ashamed to live in this Country, this should not be Happening.  If it was Miners marching week in and week out through London, they would have been battered and locked up, because it's Palestine's they turn a blind eye,  The London MET are useless and not fit for Purpose.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13325691/Shocking-moment-police-officer-threatens-ARREST-Jewish-man-breaching-peace-stopped-crossing-road-pro-Palestine-march-London.html

[ngb1066]

I feel ashamed to live in this Country, this should not be Happening.  If it was Miners marching week in and week out through London, they would have been battered and locked up, because it's Palestine's they turn a blind eye,  The London MET are useless and not fit for Purpose.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13325691/Shocking-moment-police-officer-threatens-ARREST-Jewish-man-breaching-peace-stopped-crossing-road-pro-Palestine-march-London.html

I have to disagree with you here HB.  I agree with you entirely about policing of the miners' strike.  However this situation is very different.  The problem shown in the video here was not with the demonstrators, but the lack of judgement by the police officer.  He should not have prevented the individual from getting close to the demonstration.  He only did that because he was obviously Jewish.  The idea that he was therefore likely to be attacked by demonstrators was a ridiculous one.  The demonstration was orderly and well stewarded.  There was a huge Jewish section on the march, as well as many other Jews elsewhere on the march.  The Mail are promoting the narrative that Jews are no longer safe in London as a result of pro- Palestine marches.  That is completely untrue.  The Mail is fanatical in support of Israel and its crimes and would like to see the marches banned. 

   

[Hardy Boy]

I have to disagree with you here HB.  I agree with you entirely about policing of the miners' strike.  However this situation is very different.  The problem shown in the video here was not with the demonstrators, but the lack of judgement by the police officer.  He should not have prevented the individual from getting close to the demonstration.  He only did that because he was obviously Jewish.  The idea that he was therefore likely to be attacked by demonstrators was a ridiculous one.  The demonstration was orderly and well stewarded.  There was a huge Jewish section on the march, as well as many other Jews elsewhere on the march.  The Mail are promoting the narrative that Jews are no longer safe in London as a result of pro- Palestine marches.  That is completely untrue.  The Mail is fanatical in support of Israel and its crimes and would like to see the marches banned. 

   

My main gripe was about the Police [MET] NGB, he should never have said the things he said and stopped free movement of any Person.  I have mixed feelings about Demo's week in and week out NGB, i know the miners did Demonstrations, but they wasn't week in and week out, in London, i actually went on the one to Downing Street,  and it was very peaceful from what i can remember.  But i don't mind Demo's, but when its in the same City's week in and week out i don't think it's fair on the general Public, as a whole and certainly the Jewish community in London, doesn't matter what we think, but they must sometimes feel intimidated by it,  there is no hiding from the fact it is about them.

I agree about the Daily Mail, i don't always look at it,  but i look at  the Sport and it is free online