Author Topic: Iranian Strike  (Read 47188 times)

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Offline ngb1066

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Re: Iranian Strike
« Reply #135 on: October 07, 2024, 04:01:PM »
There are many Jews in Israel who support the two state solution, territorial concessions and are against west bank settlements. They are Zionists also.

Yes I accept that is true in a literal sense but the term Zionist has seemed to develop into a description of those generally supporting the policies of the government of Israel.  Those progressive Jews who support a two state solution and oppose those policies tend to avoid describing themselves as Zionists now, even though they may have done a few years ago.

   

Offline David1819

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Re: Iranian Strike
« Reply #136 on: October 07, 2024, 07:20:PM »
Yes I accept that is true in a literal sense but the term Zionist has seemed to develop into a description of those generally supporting the policies of the government of Israel.  Those progressive Jews who support a two state solution and oppose those policies tend to avoid describing themselves as Zionists now, even though they may have done a few years ago.

   

Like everything there is a spectrum. To say every Israeli as an Ultra Zionist, is like saying every Palestinian is a Hamas militant.

In terms of Palestinian Israeli relations. It seems to be down to 10% of the populations on both sides causing 90% of the problems.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2024, 07:23:PM by David1819 »

Offline gringo

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Re: Iranian Strike
« Reply #137 on: October 07, 2024, 09:39:PM »
Like everything there is a spectrum. To say every Israeli as an Ultra Zionist, is like saying every Palestinian is a Hamas militant.

In terms of Palestinian Israeli relations. It seems to be down to 10% of the populations on both sides causing 90% of the problems.
. It is way more than 10% on both sides, David. However, one of those sides is occupied and the other side is an occupier. Animosity is to be expected from the Palestinians on account of the fact that they are the occupied, the dis-possessed. Settlers and the state and military institutions that abet them in their dispossession of the Palestinians are in breach of any number of UNSC resolutions and numerous rulings of the ICJ and have no justification. There are no both sides to this.
     Palestinians fight for what is morally and legally theirs. Israelis also fight for what morally and legally belongs to the Palestinians.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2024, 09:43:PM by gringo »

Offline David1819

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Re: Iranian Strike
« Reply #138 on: October 07, 2024, 11:56:PM »
. It is way more than 10% on both sides, David. However, one of those sides is occupied and the other side is an occupier. Animosity is to be expected from the Palestinians on account of the fact that they are the occupied, the dis-possessed. Settlers and the state and military institutions that abet them in their dispossession of the Palestinians are in breach of any number of UNSC resolutions and numerous rulings of the ICJ and have no justification. There are no both sides to this.
     Palestinians fight for what is morally and legally theirs. Israelis also fight for what morally and legally belongs to the Palestinians.

Over two million Arabs or Palestinian descent live in Israel and are citizens of Israel. Its estimated that 50 to 60 percent of Jordan's population is now of Palestinian descent.

Was Egypt, Iraq, Saudi Arabia and Syria fighting for what was "morally and legally theirs" when they sent troops to invade Israel in 1948?  :-\


Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Iranian Strike
« Reply #139 on: October 08, 2024, 09:16:PM »
. It is way more than 10% on both sides, David. However, one of those sides is occupied and the other side is an occupier. Animosity is to be expected from the Palestinians on account of the fact that they are the occupied, the dis-possessed. Settlers and the state and military institutions that abet them in their dispossession of the Palestinians are in breach of any number of UNSC resolutions and numerous rulings of the ICJ and have no justification. There are no both sides to this.
     Palestinians fight for what is morally and legally theirs. Israelis also fight for what morally and legally belongs to the Palestinians.
They have been offered a state of their own numerous times and declined. Why is that gringo and ngb1066?



By Nazenin Ansari

I was born in Iran. But the abhorrent regime ruling my homeland, which sponsors and supports Hezbollah, does not speak or act for me – nor most Iranians.

When the Islamic Republic’s supreme leader, Ali Khamenei, calls Israel a “vampire” and fires hundreds of missiles at the Jewish state, people watching the news thousands of miles away may get the impression – consciously or subconsciously – that most Iranians also support the Lebanese militants, given the decades of violent antisemitism spewing from Tehran.

I myself can only watch from a distance, having fled to the UK long ago and found freedom here as a refugee. I know the only images that most people here ever see of Iranians come from state TV footage of anti-Israeli street protests, perhaps where the Star of David is being burnt.

To think that all of us, or even most of us, feel this way is wrong.

Since the 1979 revolution, the Iranian people have been held captive by a militant cult of Shia Islam. We should never see the regime as representative of them. 

It is a theocracy in which all laws are based on a fundamentalist interpretation of this religion. The clergy prosecute and silence dissenters, even in their own circles.

Their barbarity can sometimes be overlooked by people who are angered by Israel’s military actions, first in Gaza and now in Lebanon. When they read that Iran is fighting back, some may instinctively feel that all views on the Middle East are binary, that any enemy of Israel is their friend, and that the regime should be supported.

The truth is, people who feel sympathy for innocent Palestinians being bombed by Israel should feel the same towards innocent Iranians who have suffered or perished under dictatorship.

The regime’s existence is dedicated purely to its survival and spreading the revolution beyond its borders. It is not about the survival of Islam, nor the survival of Shi’ism. It is about the survival of this fundamentalist militant cult.

For those in power in Tehran, that involves trying to impose their extremist form of Islam upon millions more people. That means all women become second-class citizens, and all gay people potentially face the death penalty; peaceful protesters being locked up, shot, or hanged in the streets, a constant fear of being arrested that permeates everyday life.

This is what life is like in Iran. It’s a never-ending nightmare. This is what they want for the rest of the Middle East, while enriching themselves in the process.

We have learned from defectors that some Hezbollah fighters even guard the country’s nuclear facilities, because the regime would rather trust people from their borderless “umma” – roughly their equivalent of a caliphate – than ordinary Iranians.

Hezbollah are the henchmen of bullies, who are against anything that this modern world is based on. I can never celebrate any death, but many Iranians were pleased by the elimination of the group’s leader, Hassan Nasrallah, in an Israeli air strike last month.

The regime in Iran also trains and sponsors Hamas, despite the group being Sunni (this is a marriage of convenience). My heart goes out to the ordinary Palestinians who are being killed in Gaza, but not to the Hamas fighters who dig their tunnels under schools and hospitals and who raped and massacred innocent Israeli civilians on 7 October 2023.







One slogan being used on the streets of Iran is: “Neither for Lebanon nor for Gaza, my life is for Iran.”

Tehran’s support for these groups comes at the expense of the Iranian people. Money should be invested in Iran for better schools, hospitals and infrastructure. Instead, it pays for weapons to be shipped to Gaza, Lebanon, and Yemen, too. While Iranian teachers, nurses, labourers and pensioners face high inflation with meagre salaries, their money is used for a terrorist battle they don’t believe in.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2024, 10:21:PM by Steve_uk »

Offline Roch

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Re: Iranian Strike
« Reply #140 on: October 09, 2024, 09:40:PM »
Interesting article. What's the betting that Israel gets tonnes more air defence equipment and more off shore naval help for intercepting missiles?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/10/09/israel-air-defence-iron-dome-tested-breaking/

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Iranian Strike
« Reply #141 on: October 09, 2024, 09:52:PM »
Interesting article. What's the betting that Israel gets tonnes more air defence equipment and more off shore naval help for intercepting missiles?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/10/09/israel-air-defence-iron-dome-tested-breaking/
What have ngb1066 and gringo to say about missile attacks inside Israeli territory? Would they care to comment on Yahya Sinwar?  https://www.timesofisrael.com/megalomaniac-sinwar-ordered-renewal-of-suicide-bombings-after-taking-power-report/


Offline ngb1066

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Re: Iranian Strike
« Reply #143 on: October 12, 2024, 11:24:AM »
The Man of the Year award goes to...https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=pierre+polievre+iran&sca_esv=ecd6a977a115267d&sxsrf=ADLYWIIJX6ELmRicBXh_1bfeWyB6OoR5iQ%3A1728679116582&ei=zIwJZ7uiI7GqhbIPvO_E8AY&ved=0ahUKEwi7uLLFl4eJAxUxVUEAHbw3EW4Q4dUDCA8&uact=5&oq=pierre+polievre+iran&gs_lp=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&sclient=gws-wiz-serp#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:a059353b,vid:B5ywoTRPDSs,st:0

What a complete maniac.  People like this are leading us to a third world war, which would be catastrophic for humanity.

I am sure you are ignoring the latest UN report published yesterday, which is damning of Israel's conduct.  I am sure you are also quite happy that Israel is now attacking UN peacekeepers.

Is there no depravity of the Israeli government and IDF which you are prepared even to criticize, let alone condemn?

As I have posted before, history will judge and it will not reflect favourable on those you unconditionally support.

 

Offline Roch

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Re: Iranian Strike
« Reply #144 on: October 12, 2024, 12:00:PM »
Personally speaking, I believe the war needs to come home to Israel. Not the children of Israel. Not the moderate, rational, innocent civilians of Israel, not the hospitals and schools of Israel.  But the IDF, the military infrastructure, the genocidal fruitcakes on the far right and the settler movement, need to be hit hard. Dismantled.  Hitting the IDF will no doubt kill the sons and daughters of moderate, innocent Israeli parents - which would be a sad consequence of justice being meted out to Israel.

Offline gringo

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Re: Iranian Strike
« Reply #145 on: October 12, 2024, 01:29:PM »
What a complete maniac.  People like this are leading us to a third world war, which would be catastrophic for humanity.

I am sure you are ignoring the latest UN report published yesterday, which is damning of Israel's conduct.  I am sure you are also quite happy that Israel is now attacking UN peacekeepers.

Is there no depravity of the Israeli government and IDF which you are prepared even to criticize, let alone condemn?

As I have posted before, history will judge and it will not reflect favourable on those you unconditionally support.

 
    Anyone still supporting this will have their own conscience to wrestle with shortly, ngb. Many are complicit by their actions. Watch the 4 minutes + of Dr. Tanya Haj-Hassan below-very powerful and moving.
 
     "This is not a humanitarian crisis, Kate, and I'm going to say it very clearly for your viewers to hear: This is genocide [...] Media agencies will have reckon with their major role in the genocide." -- Dr. Tanya Haj-Hassan to CNN


"I am genuinely afraid about what we gonna find out when the dust settles".

 https://x.com/OmarBaddar/status/1844759868512637359

   

     

Offline ngb1066

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Re: Iranian Strike
« Reply #146 on: October 12, 2024, 02:09:PM »
    Anyone still supporting this will have their own conscience to wrestle with shortly, ngb. Many are complicit by their actions. Watch the 4 minutes + of Dr. Tanya Haj-Hassan below-very powerful and moving.
 
     "This is not a humanitarian crisis, Kate, and I'm going to say it very clearly for your viewers to hear: This is genocide [...] Media agencies will have reckon with their major role in the genocide." -- Dr. Tanya Haj-Hassan to CNN


"I am genuinely afraid about what we gonna find out when the dust settles".

 https://x.com/OmarBaddar/status/1844759868512637359

   
   

That is a very powerful interview gringo.  The pro Israel bias of the MSM is appalling.  Of course Steve will reject it as anti-Semitic propaganda (if he even bothers to watch).  This Israeli terror is going from terrible to catastrophic.  I do not believe Israel will have any credibility in the future whatever it does.  They will reap what they sow in my view and it will not be pretty.  The real villains here are the USA (aided and abetted by the UK and others) in arming and supporting Israel and vetoing UN Security Council resolutions repeatedly.  If they withdrew their support Israel would not last more than a few weeks or months.



 

Offline Roch

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Re: Iranian Strike
« Reply #147 on: October 12, 2024, 02:28:PM »
My stomach churns that it has been allowed to happen and that there is a pretence that it hasn't happened.  I believe it is a defining moment in my lifetime.

Offline gringo

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Re: Iranian Strike
« Reply #148 on: October 12, 2024, 02:56:PM »
My stomach churns that it has been allowed to happen and that there is a pretence that it hasn't happened.  I believe it is a defining moment in my lifetime.
That is a very powerful interview gringo.  The pro Israel bias of the MSM is appalling.  Of course Steve will reject it as anti-Semitic propaganda (if he even bothers to watch).  This Israeli terror is going from terrible to catastrophic.  I do not believe Israel will have any credibility in the future whatever it does.  They will reap what they sow in my view and it will not be pretty.  The real villains here are the USA (aided and abetted by the UK and others) in arming and supporting Israel and vetoing UN Security Council resolutions repeatedly.  If they withdrew their support Israel would not last more than a few weeks or months.
     Agree entirely. The truth of Israel/UK/US depravity is already known and documented. Those who continue to ignore the evidence in front of their eyes will soon have to reckon with the truth.

https://x.com/LoboNaturalista/status/1843830959331827820

     

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Iranian Strike
« Reply #149 on: October 12, 2024, 06:56:PM »
What a complete maniac.  People like this are leading us to a third world war, which would be catastrophic for humanity.

I am sure you are ignoring the latest UN report published yesterday, which is damning of Israel's conduct.  I am sure you are also quite happy that Israel is now attacking UN peacekeepers.

Is there no depravity of the Israeli government and IDF which you are prepared even to criticize, let alone condemn?

As I have posted before, history will judge and it will not reflect favourable on those you unconditionally support.

 
There should be a negotiation: Iran stops funding terrorism abroad and the West will leave well alone.