Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: lookout on August 04, 2017, 12:30:PM
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This information,which is proven,is in regard to a 999 call made to police from WHF at 06.09 am on the morning of 7th of August. Documents support this latest news and is from a Stokenchurch 2002 inquiry which the Met was investigating for the appeal in advance of JB's second failed appeal.
The document refers to a PC Millbank who was monitoring a 999 call at the above time.
It wasn't/isn't known who made this call but in all probability it would have been Sheila,as she'd previously been in conversation with a firearms officer at 05.25am as is recorded on documentation.
No statement had been made by PC Millbank and neither was he asked to give evidence in court of what was said during these conversations while monitoring the 999 call from WHF.
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This information,which is proven,is in regard to a 999 call made to police from WHF at 06.09 am on the morning of 7th of August. Documents support this latest news and is from a Stokenchurch 2002 inquiry which the Met was investigating for the appeal in advance of JB's second failed appeal.
The document refers to a PC Millbank who was monitoring a 999 call at the above time.
It wasn't/isn't known who made this call but in all probability it would have been Sheila,as she'd previously been in conversation with a firearms officer at 05.25am as is recorded on documentation.
No statement had been made by PC Millbank and neither was he asked to give evidence in court of what was said during these conversations while monitoring the 999 call from WHF.
Hi lookout good to have you back. Do you have a link to the information?
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A 999 call at 6.09am.
Wouldn't it have been easier for Nevill to go outside & meet the police ?
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A 999 call at 6.09am.
Wouldn't it have been easier for Nevill to go outside & meet the police ?
Exactly, they were all outside, no need to call anyone. Honestly! ::)
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A 999 call at 6.09am.
Wouldn't it have been easier for Nevill to go outside & meet the police ?
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it did not say it was from Neville
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Exactly, they were all outside, no need to call anyone. Honestly! ::)
Not if someone did not perceive them as the police
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This is in regard to a 999 phone-call made at 06.05 from WHF to police on the morning of the 7th of August.
The phone-call was monitored by PC Millbank. Documentation supports this.
In all probability it had been Sheila who'd previously spoken with a firearms officer at 05.28 that same morning.
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lot of it about .
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Hi lookout good to have you back. Do you have a link to the information?
Sorry Steve,having problems with this " new " comp. I'd shied away from it for over 18 months as I'm not familiar with Windows 10-------------as you will gather by the " repeat performance ".
Thankyou for your kindness.
I didn't see any advantage in posting until something new appeared.
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This is in regard to a 999 phone-call made at 06.05 from WHF to police on the morning of the 7th of August.
The phone-call was monitored by PC Millbank. Documentation supports this.
In all probability it had been Sheila who'd previously spoken with a firearms officer at 05.28 that same morning.
Why have you made two threads on this? Any chance you can post a link or source for this claim?
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Sorry Steve,having problems with this " new " comp. I'd shied away from it for over 18 months as I'm not familiar with Windows 10-------------as you will gather by the " repeat performance ".
Thankyou for your kindness.
I didn't see any advantage in posting until something new appeared.
ah so old news then
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This is in regard to a 999 phone-call made at 06.05 from WHF to police on the morning of the 7th of August.
The phone-call was monitored by PC Millbank. Documentation supports this.
In all probability it had been Sheila who'd previously spoken with a firearms officer at 05.28 that same morning.
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Whatever ::)
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Why have you made two threads on this? Any chance you can post a link or source for this claim?
As I explained to Steve,I'm using a win.10 laptop which I'm not familiar with,so I think I'll revert to using my old clapped out 7.
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Exactly, they were all outside, no need to call anyone. Honestly! ::)
Don't you imagine that Sheila wasn't in a normal state of mind when making that call knowing that there were police already outside,or don't you think there was anything at all wrong with Sheila ?
That " schizophrenia " was something which had been made up ?
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Exactly, they were all outside, no need to call anyone. Honestly! ::)
Just re read it.
It says it was Sheila who made the call, who had previously been in conversation with the police outside at 5.25am. Presumably by shouting through the letter box.
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Well there you are. The letterbox challenge. Is it any wonder that EP didn't enter or go near ?
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Well there you are. The letterbox challenge. Is it any wonder that EP didn't enter or go near ?
Have looked through today's paper. Can't find it-was it in yesterday's- Last mention of the case was in March this year.
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As I explained to Steve,I'm using a win.10 laptop which I'm not familiar with,so I think I'll revert to using my old clapped out 7.
I agree, I use windows 10, still have trouble with links etc. It was so easy with windows 7. :'(
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I agree, I use windows 10, still have trouble with links etc. It was so easy with windows 7. :'(
It's awful at times Maggie. Brand new the Christmas before last and I've only figured it out this week :)) :))
Well partly,anyway.
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It's awful at times Maggie. Brand new the Christmas before last and I've only figured it out this week :)) :))
Well partly,anyway.
Been using mine for a couple of years but keep forgetting how to do links, on windows 7 I just clicked a couple of times but this is useless, would be grateful for any advice. ;D
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Been using mine for a couple of years but keep forgetting how to do links, on windows 7 I just clicked a couple of times but this is useless, would be grateful for any advice. ;D
I haven't even transferred/migrated my email account yet ;D ;D ;D and have to plug in the old laptop to email anyone. ::)
Anyway,setting it up as I have done has saved me money because I nearly got a technician out.
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Nothing about it on the local news.
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Nothing about it on the local news.
Can't find anything about it anywhere. :-\
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Nothing about it on the local news.
Maybe it was yesterdays but if you look on Bambertweets it's dated today,4th.
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Maybe it was yesterdays but if you look on Bambertweets it's dated today,4th.
Thank-you for that. It doesn't appear to say more than has been said here on countless occasions; "I have seen................." "There is a document which says....................." "There is proof that..................."
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Thank-you for that. It doesn't appear to say more than has been said here on countless occasions; "I have seen................." "There is a document which says....................." "There is proof that..................."
Well in this particular case,it certainly wouldn't be printed if it wasn't true and the advantage is the backing in the form of documentation.
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Well in this particular case,it certainly wouldn't be printed if it wasn't true and the advantage is the backing in the form of documentation.
If it proves to be true -and we have to bear in mind that long before it became, no more than, documentation- it was dialogue carried out between two people, and as one of those people is now dead, unless the other has been blackmailed, threatened, kept prisoner, paid to go abroad,suppressed the memory, had the memory chemically erased, THAT person, unless they shared it with members of emergency services, who would ALL have been required to keep it to themselves, has kept it to his/herself for 30 plus years.
We've seen pictures of feet in the newspapers. There may even have been pictures of fake June's and Sheila's....................nothing seems to be impossible when it comes to deception.
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If it proves to be true -and we have to bear in mind that long before it became, no more than, documentation- it was dialogue carried out between two people, and as one of those people is now dead, unless the other has been blackmailed, threatened, kept prisoner, paid to go abroad,suppressed the memory, had the memory chemically erased, THAT person, unless they shared it with members of emergency services, who would ALL have been required to keep it to themselves, has kept it to his/herself for 30 plus years.
We've seen pictures of feet in the newspapers. There may even have been pictures of fake June's and Sheila's....................nothing seems to be impossible when it comes to deception.
I see it as a very important " dialogue ". One which was never aired in court along with its recipient who took and monitored the call which would have kept Jeremy from where he's been for all these years,as he was outside the farmhouse at the time with officers who must have also known of the call via their radios.
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All this trial debacle could/should have been avoided.
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It's good that evidence has been uncovered that Sheila phoned the police at 6.09am.
Better late than never.
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Can't find anything about it anywhere. :-\
I think this might be it.
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Thanks Roch---------just the start.
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If it proves to be true -and we have to bear in mind that long before it became, no more than, documentation- it was dialogue carried out between two people, and as one of those people is now dead, unless the other has been blackmailed, threatened, kept prisoner, paid to go abroad,suppressed the memory, had the memory chemically erased, THAT person, unless they shared it with members of emergency services, who would ALL have been required to keep it to themselves, has kept it to his/herself for 30 plus years.
We've seen pictures of feet in the newspapers. There may even have been pictures of fake June's and Sheila's....................nothing seems to be impossible when it comes to deception.
As suspected, it's just more claims from the CT ::)
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I think this might be it.
Yeah, I read it. Not impressed.
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Yeah, I read it. Not impressed.
Didn't think you would be,but never mind,I understand. ;D
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A 999 call at 6.09am.
Wouldn't it have been easier for Nevill to go outside & meet the police ?
At 3.42am, the phone at the house was 'off the hook' and it remained 'off the hook' until 5.47am, when according to documentary police evidence it became mysteriously 'engaged'. Then at 6.09am the lady operator patched through a '999 call' using the '999 system' from the farmhouse to the control room which was then monitored by PC Millbank, and others, all the way through to 7.47am...
Sheila made the call...
The '999 open link' was terminated after only two of the bodies had been found and reported dead in the kitchen upon entry by firearm officers, the body of one dead male, and the body of one dead female, a murder, and a suicide, Neville Bamber and Sheila Caffell...
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As suspected, it's just more claims from the CT ::)
And having read the blown up newspaper article, SURELY it's no more than regurgitated stuff which has been on here at various times, along with someone else's opinion of what it might mean.
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And having read the blown up newspaper article, SURELY it's no more than regurgitated stuff which has been on here at various times, along with someone else's opinion of what it might mean.
Hang on, cops documented what occurred, not any body else!
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Hang on, cops documented what occurred, not any body else!
Ask yourselves, 'why would cops make false radio message logs'? For what purpose, exactly?
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Hang on, cops documented what occurred, not any body else!
Have no idea what you're saying. It wasn't a response to........................................................And having read the blown up newspaper article, SURELY it's no more than regurgitated stuff which has been on here at various times, along with someone else's opinion of what it might mean.
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The contents of the contemporaneous police message logs are accurate, with no room or time for anyone to fabricate what took place, the problems started when the police witness statements were created after some delay and cops had time to fake the details of where Sheila's body was found, and where it ended up!
You can't get anything more accurate than contemporaneously recorded police messages bearing specific timings, as opposed to witness statement accounts bearing no timings at all...
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Have no idea what you're saying. It wasn't a response to....................................
Cops documented that the state of the phone at the farmhouse altered from being 'off the hook' at 3.42am onward, to becoming mysteriously 'engaged' at 5.47am, then the lady operator linked a '999' call from the farm to the control room, nothing could be explained any clearer, somebody made a '999' call from inside the farmhouse whilst Jeremy was outside in the company of the police! Lights were being switched on and off in different rooms of the house, curtains were being closed and opened at different stages of the ongoing seige, and the only rifle found upstairs which was seen at a first floor box room window at about 7.15am, eventually found its way onto Sheila's body on the main bedroom floor!
None of this had any input from Jeremy Bamber, except in the minds of every guilty supporter!
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Cops documented that the state of the phone at the farmhouse altered from being 'off the hook' at 3.42am onward, to becoming mysteriously 'engaged' at 5.47am, then the lady operator linked a '999' call from the farm to the control room, nothing could be explained any clearer, somebody made a '999' call from inside the farmhouse whilst Jeremy was outside in the company of the police! Lights were being switched on and off in different rooms of the house, curtains were being closed and opened at different stages of the ongoing seige, and the only rifle found upstairs which was seen at a first floor box room window at about 7.15am, eventually found its way onto Sheila's body on the main bedroom floor!
None of this had any input from Jeremy Bamber, except in the minds of every guilty supporter!
If none of the guilty supporters believe there is truth in what you say, it makes sense that they wouldn't believe Jeremy to have been part of it.
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Have no idea what you're saying. It wasn't a response to....................................
It must have been,or what else was it a response to ?
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It must have been,or what else was it a response to ?
Your guess is as good as mine, Lookout. I don't believe there to have been any "must have been" about it.
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Oh dear....
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Oh dear....
Yes, it's basically what Mike has been on about a few weeks ago (and probably still is). Like I said, not impressed.
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I'm not impressed that it's 32 years too late before the " powers that be " see the implications in it.
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Jean Rowe couldn't access the 999 facility ...(just for info).
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Having heard all about how posters have studied what was and was not possible on that exchange I am interested to see what explanation is forthcoming .
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Having heard all about how posters have studied what was and was not possible on that exchange I am interested to see what explanation is forthcoming .
A telephone operator connected the open line at WHF to a police HQ so they could listen in. lol
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? But they had apparently been listening in anyway ?
That exchange was more sophisticated than we have been led to believe.
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I've just watched both the national and local news for the third time today. Nothing has been said re "Fresh Evidence Uncovered". I noticed that the article was printed on page 17. Might it be that the publication didn't think it was hugely important?
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If it had have stated a page on his guilt you'd have been all ears,page 17 or not. That's the difference I'm afraid.
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If it had have stated a page on his guilt you'd have been all ears,page 17 or not. That's the difference I'm afraid.
What's left to say about his guilt, Lookout? It was established 30+ years ago. Quite understandably, it wouldn't be given a prime spot.
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A record exists of the '999' call that was transferred by the operator from the farmhouse to the control room at 6.09am..
If no such call was made and transferred, how did the lady operator use the '999' open line system to link the phones at the house to the control room - she couldn't do that if the phone had simply been off the hook! The fact that she did transfer a call from the house to the control room using the '999' system proves somebody was still alive inside the farmhouse at 6.09am, when the call got transferred!
What I am saying can be verified by any BT engineer who worked the system at the time!
I believe the lady operator herself said as much in some witness statement or other, that unless it was an emergency call she would not have been able to patch a 'off the hook' phone at the house to the control room using the '999' system, or words to that effect!
Clearly somebody was still alive inside the farmhouse in addition to 'Crispy' the dog, a living victim who managed to make that '999' call!
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A record exists of the '999' call that was transferred by the operator from the farmhouse to the control room at 6.09am..
If no such call was made and transferred, how did the lady operator use the '999' open line system to link the phones at the house to the control room - she couldn't do that if the phone had simply been off the hook! The fact that she did transfer a call from the house to the control room using the '999' system proves somebody was still alive inside the farmhouse at 6.09am, when the call got transferred!
What I am saying can be verified by any BT engineer who worked the system at the time!
I believe the lady operator herself said as much in some witness statement or other, that unless it was an emergency call she would not have been able to patch a 'off the hook' phone at the house to the control room using the '999' system, or words to that effect!
Clearly somebody was still alive inside the farmhouse in addition to 'Crispy' the dog, a living victim who managed to make that '999' call!
I believe Caroline was in contact with the guy who was responsible for the system at the time?
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I believe Caroline was in contact with the guy who was responsible for the system at the time?
I myself was in direct contact with BT engineers who knew all there was to know about the telephones in use at the farm, at police headquarters, in the sub stations in that era, and my eyes were opened when I learned the truth about the garbage the prosecution had used during the trial! I can assure everyone that what I was told is accurate - the off the hook phone back at the house could not remain in a off the hook state all the way from 3.42am until it was terminated at 7.47am, the system in use at the substation would have reset the phone line back at the farmhouse after a specific period of time! That period would not have lasted or exceeded over an unbroken 4 hour period!
Thats what I know...
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What's left to say about his guilt, Lookout? It was established 30+ years ago. Quite understandably, it wouldn't be given a prime spot.
Then why bother arguing against something which in your mind is a foregone conclusion ? I don't get it.
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I myself was in direct contact with BT engineers who knew all there was to know about the telephones in use at the farm, at police headquarters, in the sub stations in that era, and my eyes were opened when I learned the truth about the garbage the prosecution had used during the trial! I can assure everyone that what I was told is accurate - the off the hook phone back at the house could not remain in a off the hook state all the way from 3.42am until it was terminated at 7.47am, the system in use at the substation would have reset the phone line back at the farmhouse after a specific period of time! That period would not have lasted or exceeded over an unbroken 4 hour period!
Thats what I know...
Funnily enough, so was Caroline. I wonder what are the chances of it being the same person. She's posted what she learned from him on several occasions, but I don't suppose she'll mind doing it again.
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Then why bother arguing against something which in your mind is a foregone conclusion ? I don't get it.
Well, unless it's escaped your notice, Lookout, despite that there are some here who don't believe me, and don't believe I know these people, I'm actually surrounded by them here, where I live -although those who were Nevill and June's friends are dropping off this mortal coil very quickly- and not ALL think that Jeremy is guilty. I'm hoping to have lunch with one such soon. Just because I believe he's guilty I'm not so closed minded that I'm not interested in hearing other's stories.
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A record exists of the '999' call that was transferred by the operator from the farmhouse to the control room at 6.09am..
No, a police record exists that mentions "999", but the operator in question stated that it was the police who asked for the WHF line to be connected to the police HQ, and that she didn't use the emergency system (because she wasn't allowed to).
If no such call was made and transferred, how did the lady operator use the '999' open line system to link the phones at the house to the control room - she couldn't do that if the phone had simply been off the hook!
She stated that she didn't use the emergency system. She had already been "eavesdropping" on the WHF line. She would have known if someone had replaced the receiver at WHF and dialled 999.
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Funnily enough, so was Caroline. I wonder what are the chances of it being the same person. She's posted what she learned from him on several occasions, but I don't suppose she'll mind doing it again.
During the trial the prosecution tried to suggest that if Neville had called Jeremy, that Jeremy would not have been able to call out until a set period of time had elapsed, but it turns out that if the cradle had been depressed at the farmhouse during Nevilles call, that Jeremy would have been able to call Neville back as he claimed he had done only to get an 'engaged tone'! At the time Jeremy was reporting an 'engaged tone' Neville was making his 3.26am call to the cops telling them 'My daughter has got one of my guns, and she is going berserk'...
By 3.42am, the telephone inside the house was 'off the hook', with no-one using it...
It remained 'off the hook' until 5.57am, when it suddenly and inexplicably became 'engaged'...
At around this time, or shortly afterwards a request was made by a living victim inside the farmhouse for an ambulance to be called out to the scene, the call in which this request was made, was linked directly to the police control room using the '999' open line, because the call was a '999' call. If it hadn't been a '999' call the operator would not have been able to patch the call through to the control room! The other matter worth raising is that at at least two key moments when the operator checked the phone at the farmhouse, a dog was reported to be heard barking!
The dog (Crispy) as we all know was hiding under the bed in an upstairs bedroom, where the round finger dial phone was normally plugged in! For all anybody knows, the round finger dial phone may have been 'off the hook' at 3.42am in the main bedroom, and still 'off the hook' in the main bedroom when the operator reported hearing the dog barking, and that somebody unplugged the round finger dial phone from its upstairs main bedroom socket, after the second occasion the dog was heard barking, and that person who I understand to have been Sheila took the round finger dial phone downstairs to the kitchen and plugged it in the kitchen socket shortly after or around 6am, and made a '999' call requesting an ambulance, a call which the operator patched through to police control using the '999' open line system! The operator could not have done this if there was no '999' call! The reason the phone at the farmhouse is said to have become mysteriously 'engaged' at 5.47am, was because somebody unplugged the round finger dial phone from its upstairs main bedroom socket! Whilst it remained unplugged for the entire period until someone replugged it in downstairs in the kitchen, and because the digital phone which was normally plugged in at the kitchen socket had been 'unplugged' by someone beforehand, anyone trying to ring the farmhouse or trying to check the state of the phone by 'that stage' would get a constant 'engaged tone' which was what did occur! Cops have known all along that Sheila was still alive inside the farmhouse which was why the seige lasted as long as it did! They know the round finger dial phone was 'off the hook' upstairs in the main bedroom for the entire period 3.42am to around 5.55am, they know this because the dog under the bed in that room was barking at those key moments! The line at the farmhouse became mysteriously 'engaged' because Sheila unplugged the bedroom phone and took it with her downstairs to the kitchen where she eventually plugged it into the kitchen socket and made a '999' call, which the operator patched through to the control room at 6.09am - the open line '999' call remained active for the entire period between 6.09am to 7.57am, included in this recording was the shooting incident inwhich Sheila got shot in the kitchen! Within 12 minutes of her getting shot in the kitchen and with only two of the bodies of the five victims locatyed and designated as being dead by that stage, a dead male, a dead female, a murder, and a suicide, cops terminated the '999' call because a cop had shot Sheila and he thought he had killed her, her death being spoken of as a suicide at and by that stage!
This account is the most accurate that anybody not directly involved in the shootings of Sheila Caffell, will ever get to hear about, she got shot once downstairs in the kitchen, and secondly upstairs on the bedroom floor once her body had been moved to there from on top of the bed! Sheila Caffell sustained the fatal second shot at 9.13am, whilst senior officers were performing 'informatives'...
The truth will now have to be acknowleged by the despicable authorities!!!
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No, a police record exists that mentions "999", but the operator in question stated that it was the police who asked for the WHF line to be connected to the police HQ, and that she didn't use the emergency system (because she wasn't allowed to).
She stated that she didn't use the emergency system. She had already been "eavesdropping" on the WHF line. She would have known if someone had replaced the receiver at WHF and dialled 999.
How do you know that the operator even made her own witness statement?
You can't be certain, nobody can be! Cops are known to have made composite witness statements for eachother and different witnesses without their knowlege or consent! I stand by what I have said because its the truth!
I believe the contents of the attached extract tell a story in favour of my account!
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Documentary police evidence exists which confirms the phone at the farmhouse was 'off the hook' between 3.42am and about 5.55am...
Alternative documentary police evidence exists to show or indicate that at around 5.57am, the phone line at the farmhouse was reported as being 'engaged'...
By 6.09am, it does not matter whether the police asked the operator to patch the 'engaged' line through to the control room, or if the operator did this by her own judgement, the call could not have been patched through as defined unless it had been a '999' call in the first instance..
The so called 'eavesdrop' lasted from between 6.09am to 7.57am that same morning! It got terminated within 12 minutes of two bodies reportedly dead in the kitchen upon entry! One dead male, and one dead female, a murder, and a suicide (7.35am, 7.37am, 7.38am, 7.42am, and 7.45am messages and info' refers)! Why terminate the 'eavesdrop' at such a crucial stage in the proceedings? The answer to this question rests with the nature of the death of the female at and by that stage, reported as being dead in the kitchen, by way of a suicide, without any gun being present downstairs in the kitchen to support her suicde! Only a police weapon! The cut off of the 'eavesdrop at such a crucial stage in the proceedings conveniently serves to enable DCI Harris to talk with ACC 'Peter' Simpson using the round finger dial phone in the kitchen! What did Harris and Simpson talk about? How long did this conversation last? Why are Essex police so reluctant to want to talk about what Harris and Simpson must have been talking about?
What happened between 7.57am when the 'eavesdrop' which had been on going from as long ago as 6.09am, got terminated, and 8.10am when the other threee bodies of the five victims got discovered upstairs, and in turn what took place between 8.10am the discovery of bodies three, four and five, and 8.44am when the police surgeon, Dr Craig arrived to pronounce the five victims all as being dead? Essex police are hiding something sinister! They know they shot Sheila Caffell, they know they are responsible for killing her! They know that Sheila did shoot and over power and kill the other four victims! You could not make up the sort of things which leap out of the file in this case at you! Things which were recorded contemporaneously, not fabricated with the benefit of malice aforethought, as per the dodgy police witness statement accounts, many of which are composite versions of their supposed evidence that many probably never even saw or knew the contents of! There is no valid evidence which supports Jeremy Bamber as being the killer of these five victims! Its all dodgy, fabricated wishful thinking on the part of almost every prosecution witness relied upon during the trial. If I saw one miniscule fact or reason which serves to confirm Jeremy Bambers guilt in these matters I would have fallen into the guilters camp long long ago! I would have condemned him, with good reason for doing so! But there is no reliable evidence, not one shred that he shot, beat, or that he overpowered and killed anybody in cold blood, or that he somehow was able to trick the police into shooting his sister dead, and make the police, senior officers amongst those responsible for Sheila Caffells death, into thinking that Sheila had somehow committed suicide? Committed suicide when the cops had shot her? Committed suicide when the cops had staged her death to make it look like she had taken her own life, when in fact by virtue of close scrutiny anyone can see that she had not taken her own life - she had been killed by another! Cops were quite happy whilstever the case was being processed through the Coroners Court System! Their problems started once the matter became a criminal investigation! By then a lot of water had gone under the bridge, they were in too deeep to do a 'U' turn. Encouraged by suspicious relatives, cops threw Jeremy Bamber to the wolves...
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I might be prepared to believe that there are documents being withheld which the Home Secretary either hasn't read due to neglect or act of deliberate intent by powers that be.
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I might be prepared to believe that there are documents being withheld which the Home Secretary either hasn't read due to neglect or act of deliberate intent by powers that be.
I was told the home office don't have the power to make EP release documents. It has to be the DPP I think .
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DCI 'Taff' Jones, not only knew that Jeremy Bamber had not been directly involved in the five deaths, he had the benefit of knowing the truth surounding exactly how Sheila Caffell had met her end after the police forced their way into the farmhouse! He had the benefit of the coded so called suicide note recovered from Sheila Caffells bedside cabinet, where it provided clues to her mindset before she even discharged any shot into any of her victims, near to the midnight hour, she would go downstairs to collect the gun, she would shoot mum and force dad to phone Jeremy to try to get him to come to the farmhouse so that she could shoot him and kill him as well! 'Taff' suspected that when Neville had called Jeremy that he may well have been forced to use the round finger dial phone in his bedroom, he reasoned this was the case because Sheila had unplugged it much later on that morning at a time which coincided with the phone line at the farmhouse having become mysteriously 'engaged' at around 5.57am, for several minutes until around 6.09am, when she made a '999' call once the round finger dial phone from the main bedroom which had been replugged in at the kitchen socket! He was satisfied that no-one but Sheila herself had previously unplugged the digital phone in the kitchen! Neville Bamber had been forceed to try and lure Jeremy to the farm, so that Sheila could kill him too!
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I was told the home office don't have the power to make EP release documents. It has to be the DPP I think .
Well I'm staggered if that's true because the Home Secretary is elected and therefore accountable to us. Previous Home Secretaries have increased prisoners' tariffs so they must have some power.
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The truth regarding what actually happened inside whf before and after police forced their way into the farmhouse can be gleaned by reference to the contemporaneously recorded notes and reports, facts which were noted down spontaneously, not with the benefit of malice aforethought which creeps into any investigation when cops and the authorities try to instigate a cover up of sorts for one reason or another! Malice aforethought is a tool frequently relied upon by those in authority who are hell bent on framing somebody or other, just so long as none of the shit which attaches itself to the preverbial fan whenever these kind of miscarriages of justice fall under scrutiny! The bottom line is that Sheila got shot by the cops, she didn't shoot herself and Jeremy did not shoot her dead! She was unconscious by the time the second shot got inflicted, she would have known very little if anything at all about it when it occurred! They moved her body from on top of the bed onto the main bedroom floor and introduced the rifle to her body which fire the all important fatal shot! Manipulation of the photographic albums by the bad apple cops and CPS tells its own story! Interfering with exhibit references and substituting exhibits here, there and everywhere, sings out like distasteful puke! Composite witness statements here, there, and everywhere, sometimes two or three different versions of the same witnesses ccomposite statements, the contents of which witnesses may never have even seen let alone ever read, or signed as being true!
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The truth regarding what actually happened inside whf before and after police forced their way into the farmhouse can be gleaned by reference to the contemporaneously recorded notes and reports, facts which were noted down spontaneously, not with the benefit of malice aforethought which creeps into any investigation when cops and the authorities try to instigate a cover up of sorts for one reason or another! Malice aforethought is a tool frequently relied upon by those in authority who are hell bent on framing somebody or other, just so long as none of the shit which attaches itself to the preverbial fan whenever these kind of miscarriages of justice fall under scrutiny! The bottom line is that Sheila got shot by the cops, she didn't shoot herself and Jeremy did not shoot her dead! She was unconscious by the time the second shot got inflicted, she would have known very little if anything at all about it when it occurred! They moved her body from on top of the bed onto the main bedroom floor and introduced the rifle to her body which fire the all important fatal shot! Manipulation of the photographic albums by the bad apple cops and CPS tells its own story! Interfering with exhibit references and substituting exhibits here, there and everywhere, sings out like distasteful puke! Composite witness statements here, there, and everywhere, sometimes two or three different versions of the same witnesses ccomposite statements, the contents of which witnesses may never have even seen let alone ever read, or signed as being true!
The role played by 'Dr Harris' at the scene after 9.13am, tells its own story!
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The role played by 'Dr Harris' at the scene after 9.13am, tells its own story!
His role at the scene after 9.13am, has been spirited out of the equation rather conveniently! But he was there, and his involvement confirms that cops knew and know that Sheila was alive inside the farmhouse long after cops entered at around 7.30am that morning, they know she was still barely alive right up until 9.13am, the time the second shot brought Sheila's life to an abrupt conclusion!
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In David Shaws account, he claims that Sheila fled upstairs and shot herself before police could get to her, but that account is plainly wrong! She did not shoot herself, the crime scene was 'rigged' by the cops, especially in the main bedroom! Cops wouldn't have gone to these lengths if Sheila had simply but tragically just shot herself...
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In David Shaws account, he claims that Sheila fled upstairs and shot herself before police could get to her, but that account is plainly wrong! She did not shoot herself, the crime scene was 'rigged' by the cops, especially in the main bedroom! Cops wouldn't have gone to these lengths if Sheila had simply but tragically just shot herself...
I received information by word of mouth a few weeks ago that evidence from Dr Harris was lodged on the Coroners Court file! If this information is factual then of course it will be or should be the beginning of the end in this long drawn out affair! The original inquest proceedings got adjorned until I think May 1986, because of the complicated nature involving how Sheila Caffell had died! The Coroner was not concerned with who shot her, only the cause of her death! It was Dr Harris who officially pronounced Sheila as being dead, and it was a requirement that his endorsement to that effect be placed on the Coroners file! The problem with that, however, is that in the criminal case proceedings, Dr Craig supposedly pronounced Sheila as being dead at and by 8.44am - two different doctors, pronouncing Sheila as being dead at two different times, one doctor (Harris) pronouncing Sheila as dead after 9.30am as part of the Coroners case, and Dr Craig pronouncing her as dead at 8.44am the same morning as part of the criminal case!
This information was passed to me confidentially, and I was requested not to repeat what I had been told immediately! But I have the green light to speak about it now...
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? But they had apparently been listening in anyway ?
That exchange was more sophisticated than we have been led to believe.
The BT operator/s were listening in and reporting back to the police. Then later the police wanted it directed to them so they could listen themselves. This alleged call from Sheila at 6.09 is actually the operator putting the WHF phone through to the police.
(http://www.worldofbb.com/images/smilies/lol.gif)
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The BT operator/s were listening in and reporting back to the police. Then later the police wanted it directed to them so they could listen themselves. This alleged call from Sheila at 6.09 is actually the operator putting the WHF phone through to the police.
Oh will you let the Essex and Colchester Gazette know..
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The BT operator/s were listening in and reporting back to the police. Then later the police wanted it directed to them so they could listen themselves. This alleged call from Sheila at 6.09 is actually the operator putting the WHF phone through to the police.
(http://www.worldofbb.com/images/smilies/lol.gif)
Ahh but remember as no calls could be recorded that can't be proven ;D
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The BT operator/s were listening in and reporting back to the police. Then later the police wanted it directed to them so they could listen themselves. This alleged call from Sheila at 6.09 is actually the operator putting the WHF phone through to the police.
(http://www.worldofbb.com/images/smilies/lol.gif)
linked to these events was the switching on and off of different lights inside the farmhouse, at different times during the seige, and the opening and shutting of curtains at different windows, the movement of the anshuzt rifle to the first floor box room window at around 7.15am, and its removal from there afterwards when after 8.10am it somehow founds its own way onto the bed inbetween the bodies of June and Sheila by 9.10am, and then onto Sheila's body in time for PC Bird to photograph it there in her possesssion on the bedroom floor after 10am...
Oh, and then there is the piece of original badly fragmenteed bullet (exhibit PV/20) which became transformed into whole bullet by mid September 1985...
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Ahh but remember as no calls could be recorded that can't be proven ;D
It was being recorded. But they destroyed the tape later because it also recorded the police making a mess in the kitchen.
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linked to these events was the switching on and off of different lights inside the farmhouse, at different times during the seige, and the opening and shutting of curtains at different windows, the movement of the anshuzt rifle to the first floor box room window at around 7.15am, and its removal from there afterwards when after 8.10am it somehow founds its own way onto the bed inbetween the bodies of June and Sheila by 9.10am, and then onto Sheila's body in time for PC Bird to photograph it there in her possesssion on the bedroom floor after 10am...
Oh, and then there is the piece of original badly fragmenteed bullet (exhibit PV/20) which became transformed into whole bullet by mid September 1985...
Lets also not overlook the existence of the timed police radio message logs, and other reports (7.35am, 7.37am, 7.38am, 7.42am and 7.45am) which details two bodies in the kitchen at the time of entry by cops, and only a further three bodies upstairs by 8.10am! Something sinister has occurred here, something which simply cannot be sewpt away under any carpet and forgotten about...
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It was being recorded. But they destroyed the tape later because it also recorded the police making a mess in the kitchen.
No I meant on bills so you could allegedly not prove a call had happened .
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linked to these events was the switching on and off of different lights inside the farmhouse, at different times during the seige, and the opening and shutting of curtains at different windows, the movement of the anshuzt rifle to the first floor box room window at around 7.15am, and its removal from there afterwards when after 8.10am it somehow founds its own way onto the bed inbetween the bodies of June and Sheila by 9.10am, and then onto Sheila's body in time for PC Bird to photograph it there in her possesssion on the bedroom floor after 10am...
Oh, and then there is the piece of original badly fragmenteed bullet (exhibit PV/20) which became transformed into whole bullet by mid September 1985...
I am not disputing most of that.
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How do you know that the operator even made her own witness statement?
You can't be certain, nobody can be!
Her statement is dated 8 August 1985. It contains the sentence "I am not allowed to engage the Direct Emergency Police line so I again checked into this Maldon number and then phoned the Police Headquarters and connected the two thus enabling the Police to listen to the line." As she was busy, she hadn't been continuously monitoring the line, and the rest of her statement is consistent with the information about line check requests in the police records; the one exception is their mention of 999, but a reasonable explanation of that is that the police officer who requested the operator to link the call to their HQ didn't realize what exactly the BT operator had done. There's nothing to suggest that the BT operator's statement was written for her or "edited" in any way.
The dog (Crispy) as we all know was hiding under the bed in an upstairs bedroom
The dog that was found hiding under a bed wasn't necessarily there all the time, so the operator's mention of it doesn't contradict other evidence, even if its barks in a bedroom wouldn't have been audible in the kitchen.
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After a 999 call at 06.09,at approximately 06.25 two ambulances had been sent to the farmhouse.
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As we know,if someone has been found dead,a doctor's confirmation is needed to verify this and once it has been confirmed,through examination,a hearse is ordered to collect the deceased,not an ambulance.
This is normal procedure in any eventuality.
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As we know,if someone has been found dead,a doctor's confirmation is needed to verify this and once it has been confirmed,through examination,a hearse is ordered to collect the deceased,not an ambulance.
This is normal procedure in any eventuality.
Are you saying that everyone was still alive at the times you give?
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Are you saying that everyone was still alive at the times you give?
Whoever rang 999 from WHF at the time did.
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Whoever rang 999 from WHF at the time did.
Right. So you have a word for word conversation, do you? I only ask, because IF such exists, it goes beyond EP to the ambulance service who would have been told what were the circumstances and keeping quiet about it must make them part of the conspiracy.
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Right. So you have a word for word conversation, do you? I only ask, because IF such exists, it goes beyond EP to the ambulance service who would have been told what were the circumstances and keeping quiet about it must make them part of the conspiracy.
Don't be silly----" word for word conversation " indeed. ::)
Not necessarily a conspiracy,more of a lack of communication. In this case " the right hand didn't know what the left hand was doing " and those outside were obviously waiting for orders----as it was an hour later that the firearms team stormed in.
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Don't be silly----" word for word conversation " indeed. ::)
Not necessarily a conspiracy,more of a lack of communication. In this case " the right hand didn't know what the left hand was doing " and those outside were obviously waiting for orders----as it was an hour later that the firearms team stormed in.
I can accept that there was lack of communication, NOT to the extent, however, that we're being asked to believe, because every breakdown mentioned requires another. The alleged end result beggars belief.
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I can accept that there was lack of communication, NOT to the extent, however, that we're being asked to believe, because every breakdown mentioned requires another. The alleged end result beggars belief.
I'm afraid the case as a whole beggars belief the way it was conducted. It made a joke of the justice system at the time,as 32 years later it's ALL coming out that folk were made monkeys of in believing that JB was guilty.
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The very interesting post that I found from mike was that the pages numbers and timed logs don't match up .
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The very interesting post that I found from mike was that the pages numbers and timed logs don't match up .
Where is that Jan?
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Where is that Jan?
Author Topic: Wireless Message logs were edited to hide significant parts of the operation... (Read 544 times)
I am not sure of the relevance but the log pages do not seem to run sequentially and mike seems to think they should do ?
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Author Topic: Wireless Message logs were edited to hide significant parts of the operation... (Read 544 times)
I am not sure of the relevance but the log pages do not seem to run sequentially and mike seems to think they should do ?
I'd take it with a pinch of salt.
The logs in the thread linked to in the library are posted out of sequence, but the relevant pages do follow on from each other.
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I'd take it with a pinch of salt.
The logs in the thread linked to in the library are posted out of sequence, but the relevant pages do follow on from each other.
So will I, unless it can be proved otherwise. I'm more than prepared to accept that, IF it's true, docs were doctored to frame Jeremy, docs are also doctored in attempt to make him innocent. What works one way can work the other.
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I'd take it with a pinch of salt.
The logs in the thread linked to in the library are posted out of sequence, but the relevant pages do follow on from each other.
So just some pages are missing from that list . They are there . Thanks I will have a look
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So just some pages are missing from that list . They are there . Thanks I will have a look
If pages are missing from this forum, then it means nothing more than that.
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If pages are missing from this forum, then it means nothing more than that.
So this shows no page 622. Just 621 and 623
So quite a lot happened between 6.19. And 6.22 am then ?
A whole page of notes ?
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So this shows no page 622. Just 621 and 623
So quite a lot happened between 6.19. And 6.22 am then ?
A whole page of notes ?
I don't know where you are looking?
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That needs looking into. I am sure Hartley will help you with the missing page Jan
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Yes as it was the time the ambulances were called I am just interested what is on page 263
There are other pages as well
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So this shows no page 622. Just 621 and 623
So quite a lot happened between 6.19. And 6.22 am then ?
A whole page of notes ?
There are page numbers 255 onwards on the bottom right of the pages in the logs thread. Do you mean these numbers?
If so, there are a few which cannot be seen as the photocopy is slightly off the page and one page inconveniently has the bottom right corner folded over.
There are two logs and a few extra communication forms which have these page numbers, so they have all been put together at some stage in to a single document, possibly the Mackenzie Report?
Either way, we can see from the other log that not much happened between the timings you gave.
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So this shows no page 622. Just 621 and 623
So quite a lot happened between 6.19. And 6.22 am then ?
A whole page of notes ?
Or they simply missed the page out - what do you imagine happened in 3 minutes to fill a whole page?
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There are page numbers 255 onwards on the bottom right of the pages in the logs thread. Do you mean these numbers?
If so, there are a few which cannot be seen as the photocopy is slightly off the page and one page inconveniently has the bottom right corner folded over.
There are two logs and a few extra communication forms which have these page numbers, so they have all been put together at some stage in to a single document, possibly the Mackenzie Report?
Either way, we can see from the other log that not much happened between the timings you gave.
In fact all the statements etc seem to have these similar page numbers, so they are probably just some organisation method by either the defence, CPS or COLP.
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Or they simply missed the page out - what do you imagine happened in 3 minutes to fill a whole page?
That is what I am asking
Is not the whole point of numbering log pages to show that they were written in sequence and not changed at all .
I am not insinuating just asking?
I thought police procedures were there for a reason to put them above reproach.
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In fact all the statements etc seem to have these similar page numbers, so they are probably just some organisation method by either the defence, CPS or COLP.
Your explanation seems more likely as the page numbers do not appear in the same place at the bottom of each page . So could they be some kind of stamp ?
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That is what I am asking
Is not the whole point of numbering log pages to show that they were written in sequence and not changed at all .
I am not insinuating just asking?
I thought police procedures were there for a reason to put them above reproach.
The numbers were not written at the same time as the logs, they were added later. We can tell this by the fact that both Bonnetts and Wests logs have these concurrent page numbers.
262 could simply be one of the pages with the corner turned over. Or maybe just a blank page which Mike didn't post?
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The numbers were not written at the same time as the logs, they were added later. We can tell this by the fact that both Bonnetts and Wests logs have these concurrent page numbers.
262 could simply be one of the pages with the corner turned over. Or maybe just a blank page which Mike didn't post?
I don't expect he did it deliberately because sometimes the answers are in the details .
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Your explanation seems more likely as the page numbers do not appear in the same place at the bottom of each page . So could they be some kind of stamp ?
I notice that Anne's COLP statement also has the same style numbers but on the top right, they also have the 255 onwards sequence.
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I don't expect he did it deliberately because sometimes the answers are in the details .
No, I'm not suggesting that he did, merely that the claim that this indicates forged logs isn't correct.
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No, I'm not suggesting that he did, merely that the claim that this indicates forged logs isn't correct.
I also did not realise there were two sets of logs
Because one has timings on the right and one on the left . Just been reading about that as well .
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I also did not realise there were two sets of logs
Because one has timings on the right and one on the left . Just been reading about that as well .
Yes that's correct. One log is by West and the other is by Bonnett.
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Yes that's correct. One log is by West and the other is by Bonnett.
H, I thought this had all been thrashed out. The theory put forward -I believe- is that they were written by the same person but one was kept hidden from the jury?
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H, I thought this had all been thrashed out. The theory put forward -I believe- is that they were written by the same person but one was kept hidden from the jury?
No there is a thread about the two different logs that would have been kept .
That is apparently why written on different notes
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H, I thought this had all been thrashed out. The theory put forward -I believe- is that they were written by the same person but one was kept hidden from the jury?
AN ANALYSIS OF THE WIRELESS MESSAGE LOG
AND
ESSEX POLICE COMMUNICATION LOG
The Wireless Message Log and Essex Police Communications Log have crucial importance in this case. They are the two separate documents used for the recording of different information from an incident in real time as the investigation unfolds. Because they are written as things happen they have a validity and believability about them over and above other documentation in the case.
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H, I thought this had all been thrashed out. The theory put forward -I believe- is that they were written by the same person but one was kept hidden from the jury?
I'm not sure what all of the claims of conspiracies are, but one log was written be West at Chelmsford Police Station and the other by Bonnett at Chelmsford Police Headquarters. They are two separate buildings.
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H, I thought this had all been thrashed out. The theory put forward -I believe- is that they were written by the same person but one was kept hidden from the jury?
It may be that only one was shown to the jury but if they said the same thing then that would not necessarily matter .
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It may be that only one was shown to the jury but if they said the same thing then that would not necessarily matter .
Both were at court. Both are referred to in the court transcripts.
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I'm not sure what all of the claims of conspiracies are, but one log was written be West at Chelmsford Police Station and the other by Bonnett at Chelmsford Police Headquarters. They are two separate buildings.
Hmm, that's what some of us believe. However, there was deffo an alleged conspiracy built up around them. Perhaps to do with the wording? Certainly they seem to have been treated as if both men -IF two are to be accepted- were in the same building, if not the same space.
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Hmm, that's what some of us believe. However, there was deffo an alleged conspiracy built up around them. Perhaps to do with the wording? Certainly they seem to have been treated as if both men -IF two are to be accepted- were in the same building, if not the same space.
Both West's and Bonnett's statements are in the library, which contain details of where they worked.
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Both West's and Bonnett's statements are in the library, which contain details of where they worked.
Ah yes, H, but when wool, in a plausible way, starts to be pulled over eyes to lead in a different direction, the facts become blurred...................if you get my drift?
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Ah yes, H, but when wool, in a plausible way, starts to be pulled over eyes to lead in a different direction, the facts become blurred...................if you get my drift?
I do indeed.
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I do indeed.
That clearly works both ways ;)
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Hmm, that's what some of us believe. However, there was deffo an alleged conspiracy built up around them. Perhaps to do with the wording? Certainly they seem to have been treated as if both men -IF two are to be accepted- were in the same building, if not the same space.
With hand on heart, how can we even be sure that the contents of the phone message logs were even written out by Bonnet and West?
Think, long and hard, the criminal Justice System is fraught with corruption where people are giving other peoples witness accounts witout their knowlege or consent!...
CPS are evil lying corrupt Criminals in wigs and gowns who will never be prosecuted by their own evil corrupted system!!!
Bring bacK hanging for the CPS!!!
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With hand on heart, how can we even be sure that the contents of the phone message logs were even written out by Bonnet and West?
Think, long and hard, the criminal Justice System is fraught with corruption where people are giving other peoples witness accounts witout their knowlege or consent!...
CPS are evil lying corrupt Criminals in wigs and gowns who will never be prosecuted by their own evil corrupted system!!!
Bring bacK hanging for the CPS!!!
The sooner, the better, I will voluinteer to be the public hangman!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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What system, allows its advocates to be able to make false allegations without any evidence whatsoever, and protects these evil vile liars even when a brainwashed jury find against their arguments, and they do not 'ever' get prosecuted for perverting the course of justice, or conspiracy to pervert the course of justice?
Send the lot of these criminals to Iraq, chop off their hands, decapitate their fett, cut out their tongues, pour pertropleum into thei bellies through their evil mouths and torch them, the horrible monsters in gowns and wigs who basically know 'fuck all'...
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The Director Of Public Prosecutions, The Lord Chief Justice, The Home Secretary, and any fucking bent Chief Constable in any force where juinior Officers are reverting to acts of corruption should all be at risk of being 'burnt at the stake, of being 'dunked in water', of being 'hung, drawn and quartered', because until this styarts to occur the vile dishonest corrupted criminal justice system will continue to lie, deceive and corrupt the minds of ordinary members of the public who are too frightened to speak out or to make decisions which throws them under the authoritative spotlight!
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The Prime Minister Theresa May is a cunt!
When she was the Home Secretary, she was advocating, and promosing justice, here, there, and everywhere, but now she is on the throne of power, she is nothing but a fucking lying corrupt bastard!!!!!!!
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The Prime Minister Theresa May is a cunt!
When she was the Home Secretary, she was advocating, and promosing justice, here, there, and everywhere, but now she is on the throne of power, she is nothing but a fucking lying corrupt bastard!!!!!!!
Remember, 'ORGREAVE' - so many promises of rectifying injustice by the state, but now she has the ultimate power, she wants to fucking brush it under the carpet!
Politians are fickle, and full of shit!
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These cunts in authority, all need to be taken to the gallows, and hung by the neck!
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These cunts in authority, all need to be taken to the gallows, and hung by the neck!
I will volunteer to be the official UK Hangman, no problem...
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I wouldn't think twice about hanging Tony Blair, and the fucking vile US President who handed back Saddam Hussien to be executed!
These people are monsters of power!
If Hussien was guilty of anything, the UK and USA top bollocks were equally as bad, why is it that these monsters can manipulate the outcome of somebodies fate?
They are the real criminals!
Wake up, everybody...
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I fucking hate injustice, on any scale...
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I fucking hate injustice, on any scale...
I am sorry, but I don't think that Saddam Hussien was as bad as the West made him out to be!
I think that when they executed him publicly, that he died with the 'dignity and the admiration of a great world Leader'!
80% of the public are being brainwashed by the so valled 'elite' who to my way of thinking are the true villains, scumbags and scurge of society!
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Three versions of the truth...
'YOUR' VERSION...
'My' VERSION...
AND 'SOMEWHERE INBETWEEN YOUR VERSION, AND MY VERSION'...
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Theresa May xxxxxxxxx
When she was the 'Home Secretary' she was promosing this, and that, and the other, but now she has achieved her ultimate goal of being the UK Prime Minister, she has exposed herself as a 'bullshitter'...
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Theresa May xxxxxxxx
When she was the 'Home Secretary' she was promosing this, and thet, and the other, but now she has achieved her ultimate goal of being the UK Prime Minister, she has exposed herself as a 'bullshitter'...
There is a lot of 'truth' behind the age old saying that 'POWER CORRUPTS'...
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Lets evaluate, what cops and its witnesses have said....
(1) - the phone at the farm was 'OFF THE HOOK' from 3.42am, onward...
(2) - the phone at the farm became 'MYSTERIOUSLY ENGAGED' at 5.57am...
(3) - the phone was patched through from the farmhouse, to the 'CONTROL ROOM' at 6.09am....
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Lets evaluate, what cops and its witnesses have said....
(1) - the phone at the farm was 'OFF THE HOOK' from 3.42am, onward...
(2) - the phone at the farm became 'MYSTERIOUSLY ENGAGED' at 5.57am...
(3) - the phone was patched through from the farmhouse, to the 'CONTROL ROOM' at 6.09am....
The 'KEYWORDS' being, 'OFF THE HOOK', 'ENGAGED', etc, etc, etc...
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I xxxxxx hate injustice, on any scale...
I am sorry, but I don't think that Saddam Hussien was as bad as the West made him out to be!
I think that when they executed him publicly, that he died with the 'dignity and the admiration of a great world Leader'!
I think he was a cruel, murdering psychopath. I know, have known Iraqi's and am in no doubt of what he was.
He murdered hundreds of thousands of his own citizens, gassed the Kurds, killed the Marsh Arabs etc.... whatever accusations can be directed at others doesn't take away the sheer brutality of that man. I don't believe in capital punishment therefore don't believe he should have been executed but that's a different argument.
Warning this video may be upsetting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLUktJbp2Ug (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLUktJbp2Ug)
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The police, and the operator were supposed to be 'professionals'...
The phone being 'off the hook' was always 'off the hook', it wasn't described as being 'engaged' when it was simply 'off the hook', since the staus of the telephone had changed, it had altered (from 5.57am, onward)...
Essex police are liars...
THe local CPS are liars...
The local Magistrates court in Essex, and the Crown Court at Chelmsford are basically corrupted!
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I am sorry, but I don't think that Saddam Hussien was as bad as the West made him out to be!
I think that when they executed him publicly, that he died with the 'dignity and the admiration of a great world Leader'!
80% of the public are being brainwashed by the so valled 'elite' who to my way of thinking are the true villains, scumbags and scurge of society!
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I am sorry, but I don't think that Saddam Hussien was as bad as the West made him out to be!
I think that when they executed him publicly, that he died with the 'dignity and the admiration of a great world Leader'!
80% of the public are being brainwashed by the so valled 'elite' who to my way of thinking are the true villains, scumbags and scurge of society!
I know he was a vicious, psychopath.
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I am sorry, but I don't think that Saddam Hussien was as bad as the West made him out to be!
I think that when they executed him publicly, that he died with the 'dignity and the admiration of a great world Leader'!
80% of the public are being brainwashed by the so valled 'elite' who to my way of thinking are the true villains, scumbags and scurge of society!
Not to that extent, he was an evil psychopath as were his sons.
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I think he was a cruel, murdering psychopath. I know, have known Iraqi's and am in no doubt of what he was.
He murdered hundreds of thousands of his own citizens, gassed the Kurds, killed the Marsh Arabs etc.... whatever accusations can be directed at others doesn't take away the sheer brutality of that man. I don't believe in capital punishment therefore don't believe he should have been executed but that's a different argument.
Warning this video may be upsetting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLUktJbp2Ug (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLUktJbp2Ug)
The video was harsh but certainly shows what a vile human being he really was. When they dragged him out of that hole in his final days I did have a pang of sympathy for him and I really don't know why - perhaps because he looked so pathetic. Not as bad as he was made out? Yeah, like Hitler was really Santa!
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I think he was a cruel, murdering psychopath. I know, have known Iraqi's and am in no doubt of what he was.
He murdered hundreds of thousands of his own citizens, gassed the Kurds, killed the Marsh Arabs etc.... whatever accusations can be directed at others doesn't take away the sheer brutality of that man. I don't believe in capital punishment therefore don't believe he should have been executed but that's a different argument.
Warning this video may be upsetting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLUktJbp2Ug (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLUktJbp2Ug)
I never wrote that! ???
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The video was harsh but certainly shows what a vile human being he really was. When they dragged him out of that hole in his final days I did have a pang of sympathy for him and I really don't know why - perhaps because he looked so pathetic. Not as bad as he was made out? Yeah, like Hitler was really Santa!
I only pasted the video link. Someone has edited my post and wrote stuff :-\
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Not to that extent, he was an evil psychopath as were his sons.
No, he wasn't...
Our Prime Minister and the American President were far worse and committed just as many alleged atrocities in Iraq and the middle east, bombing Women, children and innocent victims, in pursuit of oil...
Threre were no weapons of mass destruction, it is all a big lie...
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I think he was a cruel, murdering psychopath. I know, have known Iraqi's and am in no doubt of what he was.
He murdered hundreds of thousands of his own citizens, gassed the Kurds, killed the Marsh Arabs etc.... whatever accusations can be directed at others doesn't take away the sheer brutality of that man. I don't believe in capital punishment therefore don't believe he should have been executed but that's a different argument.
Warning this video may be upsetting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLUktJbp2Ug (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLUktJbp2Ug)
He didn't do the things you are claiming, for the reasons you are claiming, its all nonsense!
Our Prime minister of the day, and the American President bombed women, children and innocent victims in Iraq and the middle east then, but nobody gives a hoot about it because when the west does anything they claim it was/is justified! The Iraq's you knew or know were all probably westernised by the time they expressed their views or opinions to you! Hussein has been blamed for attrocities committed by others, including attrocities committed by his own sons...
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The Prime Minister Theresa May xxxxxxxx
When she was the Home Secretary, she was advocating, and promosing justice, here, there, and everywhere, but now she is on the throne of power, she is nothing but a xxxxxxxxxxxxx!!!!!!!
He didn't do the things you are claiming, for the reasons you are claiming, its all nonsense!
Our Prime minister of the day, and the American President bombed women, children and innocent victims in Iraq and the middle east then, but nobody gives a hoot about it because when the west does anything they claim it was/is justified! The Iraq's you knew or know were all probably westernised by the time they expressed their views or opinions to you! Hussein has been blamed for attrocities committed by others, including attrocities committed by his own sons...
Mike, you seem to have hit a new low. The language -and some of the sentiments- used here is wholly unacceptable and unnecessarily offensive. Employing such is more likely to get posts ignored, than read.
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He didn't do the things you are claiming, for the reasons you are claiming, its all nonsense!
Our Prime minister of the day, and the American President bombed women, children and innocent victims in Iraq and the middle east then, but nobody gives a hoot about it because when the west does anything they claim it was/is justified! The Iraq's you knew or know were all probably westernised by the time they expressed their views or opinions to you! Hussein has been blamed for attrocities committed by others, including attrocities committed by his own sons...
My sister has been close friends for over 40 years with someone who's father was a member of Saddam's government back in 1970s there is no doubt he was every bit as wicked as he was portrayed. Most of her family escaped before Saddam killed them but two of her brother's died.
I think it's an insult to all those people, many his own citizens, who were tortured and murdered at his hands over so many years for anyone to claim he was not a wicked and totally immoral psychopath. He was supported by this country for most of those years because it suited us and by that I mean pretty well all of us. Don't think many people lost sleep worrying about the misery of people living in fear under such a despot. We quite liked the oil tho' .
Th West turned against him when he wasn't any use to us anymore because he was out of control and wouldn't do our bidding any longer.
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I only pasted the video link. Someone has edited my post and wrote stuff :-\
That was me David, sorry, didn't realise you had posted the link because it was late and I was trying to edit Mike's post.
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That was me David, sorry, didn't realise you had posted the link because it was late and I was trying to edit Mike's post.
Middle Eastern countries are no worse at treating their citizens than this country !! We allowed those who were misplaced in war-torn countries to enter this country for safety,etc. What ? Liverpool is one of the cities whose refugees/asylum-seekers are sleeping on the streets !!
I find this very upsetting and distressing as they are literally penniless because their appeals to remain in this country have been rejected. They were invited to come here for God's sake !! I'm utterly furious that governments have conned people in this way.What hope have they got in this cruel and uncaring state ?
Liverpool has the greatest number of asylum seekers in the country-----no thanks to the Labour-controlled council who'll now do sod all for them. Shame on Joe Anderson and his motley crew of council workers,who all got a pat on the back for " taking these poor desperate souls " under their wings------my eye !!
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Apologies for the outburst,but I can't help thinking about these poor people and am finding it difficult to concentrate on much else,nor comprehend the cruelty meted out of broken promises for a better and safer life. Safe ?---on the streets of Liverpool at night ??
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Middle Eastern countries are no worse at treating their citizens than this country !! We allowed those who were misplaced in war-torn countries to enter this country for safety,etc. What ? Liverpool is one of the cities whose refugees/asylum-seekers are sleeping on the streets !!
I find this very upsetting and distressing as they are literally penniless because their appeals to remain in this country have been rejected. They were invited to come here for God's sake !! I'm utterly furious that governments have conned people in this way.What hope have they got in this cruel and uncaring state ?
Liverpool has the greatest number of asylum seekers in the country-----no thanks to the Labour-controlled council who'll now do sod all for them. Shame on Joe Anderson and his motley crew of council workers,who all got a pat on the back for " taking these poor desperate souls " under their wings------my eye !!
I agree with you Lookout, I support asylums seekers and an horrified at our treatment and attitude to them but that doesn't change the truth about Saddam.
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I agree with you Lookout, I support asylums seekers and an horrified at our treatment and attitude to them but that doesn't change the truth about Saddam.
It seems that we have his type in government,Maggie.
There is no support whatsoever for these people and many have TB. Where they've failed appeals and been rejected,there's no recourse to public funds,so what are they supposed to do ? This is a huge problem and a very visible one too. They get bullied,spat on,sworn at-------it's dreadful.
The Home Office has a lot to answer for too as this is just one city among many.
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It seems that we have his type in government,Maggie.
There is no support whatsoever for these people and many have TB. Where they've failed appeals and been rejected,there's no recourse to public funds,so what are they supposed to do ? This is a huge problem and a very visible one too. They get bullied,spat on,sworn at-------it's dreadful.
The Home Office has a lot to answer for too as this is just one city among many.
An actor friend -who started out life working for the DSS and was guaranteed work during his 'resting' period, had to retire in his mid 50's because he was infected with TB by, it was believed, one of the many asylum seekers he was trying to help.
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An actor friend -who started out life working for the DSS and was guaranteed work during his 'resting' period, had to retire in his mid 50's because he was infected with TB by, it was believed, one of the many asylum seekers he was trying to help.
This is something else I failed to understand when these people arrived here as to why they weren't all checked for illnesses and diseases and given the appropriate vaccinations via a travelling mobile vehicle,as was once seen on our roads many years ago when TB was a problem.
I don't think that even the children had been medically checked and vaccinated too as ours are,which means that common illnesses,etc mutate if not protected against them.
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This is something else I failed to understand when these people arrived here as to why they weren't all checked for illnesses and diseases and given the appropriate vaccinations via a travelling mobile vehicle,as was once seen on our roads many years ago when TB was a problem.
I don't think that even the children had been medically checked and vaccinated too as ours are,which means that common illnesses,etc mutate if not protected against them.
I guess for similar reasons, as the one given M when he tried to give back the winter fuel allowance, it would cost too much to implement/they were short staffed. I'm not anti TRUE asylum seekers -help SHOULD (that dreadful, judgemental word) be available to all in genuine need- but I'm conscious that we're told there's not enough money to provide support for those who have lived here all their lives so I have to wonder how the money can be found to support people who stand little chance of being able to put back into the system which has supported them.
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I guess for similar reasons, as the one given M when he tried to give back the winter fuel allowance, it would cost too much to implement/they were short staffed. I'm not anti TRUE asylum seekers -help SHOULD (that dreadful, judgemental word) be available to all in genuine need- but I'm conscious that we're told there's not enough money to provide support for those who have lived here all their lives so I have to wonder how the money can be found to support people who stand little chance of being able to put back into the system which has supported them.
I also understand about the provisions,etc to our own " home-grown " of society,( here's that word ) BUT,how many rogues exist who even abuse the very system which is meant to support those in GENUINE NEED ? I think half the staff at these assessment places need to visit Spec-Savers.
It grieves me when I read about the amount of fraud which is carried out among many who know the system inside out.Those who go limping along for assessments,complete with walking stick ( that you never normally see ) The millions that are wasted on these lead-swingers could be going towards the upkeep of those who genuinely need it,i.e. asylum seekers to give them a chance in life to at least prove themselves.
This country is duff when it comes to economics and " jobsworths " especially in councils,picking up their over-inflated pay packets . There's a lot of them about.!!
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I also understand about the provisions,etc to our own " home-grown " of society,( here's that word ) BUT,how many rogues exist who even abuse the very system which is meant to support those in GENUINE NEED ? I think half the staff at these assessment places need to visit Spec-Savers.
It grieves me when I read about the amount of fraud which is carried out among many who know the system inside out.Those who go limping along for assessments,complete with walking stick ( that you never normally see ) The millions that are wasted on these lead-swingers could be going towards the upkeep of those who genuinely need it,i.e. asylum seekers to give them a chance in life to at least prove themselves.
This country is duff when it comes to economics and " jobsworths " especially in councils,picking up their over-inflated pay packets . There's a lot of them about.!!
We are 'told' that the numbers who abuse the system are so minimal that it would cost more to weed them out than the amount saved by so doing. Believe THAT if you will. I certainly know one of their number. She rakes it in faster than it can be handed out. Council tax paid, mortgage paid, new car, taxed, every three years. The list goes on. There's f'all wrong with her. I know it. She knows I know it. Personally, I'd SOONER see her benefits go to someone in GENUINE need, but I can't help but feel that there's enough NOT getting the help they need -are entitled to- because it's being given to people like her. To be frank, it's almost as if they couldn't care less WHO the benefits are given to, as long as it can be said that the Government are giving out X billions.
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We are 'told' that the numbers who abuse the system are so minimal that it would cost more to weed them out than the amount saved by so doing. Believe THAT if you will. I certainly know one of their number. She rakes it in faster than it can be handed out. Council tax paid, mortgage paid, new car, taxed, every three years. The list goes on. There's f'all wrong with her. I know it. She knows I know it. Personally, I'd SOONER see her benefits go to someone in GENUINE need, but I can't help but feel that there's enough NOT getting the help they need -are entitled to- because it's being given to people like her. To be frank, it's almost as if they couldn't care less WHO the benefits are given to, as long as it can be said that the Government are giving out X billions.
I think there's a person like that in most neighbourhoods and it's disgusting to see when assessment time comes. On go the " collars ",out comes the stick or crutches and the hobbling begins,and the wheelchair goes in the boot.
Holiday time is so much different ! Carrying suitcases,heaving them into the car boot,and off they go. It's become a way of life--------oh,and the golf course and gym. Marvellous isn't it ?
I keep saying to myself,"give them enough rope",but up to now,it hasn't happened.
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I think there's a person like that in most neighbourhoods and it's disgusting to see when assessment time comes. On go the " collars ",out comes the stick or crutches and the hobbling begins,and the wheelchair goes in the boot.
Holiday time is so much different ! Carrying suitcases,heaving them into the car boot,and off they go. It's become a way of life--------oh,and the golf course and gym. Marvellous isn't it ?
I keep saying to myself,"give them enough rope",but up to now,it hasn't happened.
And whilst 'they' say that sorting out the problem would cost too much to implement, 'they' seem to forget who is actually paying for these scroungers to take holidays, play golf, and join gyms. I sometimes wonder what might happen if all of us protested who felt enough was enough? They'd probably charge us with civil disobedience/unrest -even starting a civil war!!!- and put us in prison..................and the scroungers would STILL be getting benefits they weren't entitled to!!!
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And whilst 'they' say that sorting out the problem would cost too much to implement, 'they' seem to forget who is actually paying for these scroungers to take holidays, play golf, and join gyms. I sometimes wonder what might happen if all of us protested who felt enough was enough? They'd probably charge us with civil disobedience/unrest -even starting a civil war!!!- and put us in prison..................and the scroungers would STILL be getting benefits they weren't entitled to!!!
I know. It makes you feel very bitter at times when you've worked all your life and done the right thing by paying into a pension----------pity nobody told you that you were wasting your time that paying into a pension made you exempt from claiming anything in the future as it took you above the limit of any entitlements which eventually makes you worse off than those who claim everything that opens and shuts. That's the reward many,including myself get for bothering to get out of bed in the morning.
I suppose the only thing we've got that nobody else has,and that's pride,which unfortunately doesn't pay the bills either.
I should be thankful for my decent health and strength ( which I am ) or I would be in a mess. One learns to get on with things and hope for the best.
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I know. It makes you feel very bitter at times when you've worked all your life and done the right thing by paying into a pension----------pity nobody told you that you were wasting your time that paying into a pension made you exempt from claiming anything in the future as it took you above the limit of any entitlements which eventually makes you worse off than those who claim everything that opens and shuts. That's the reward many,including myself get for bothering to get out of bed in the morning.
I suppose the only thing we've got that nobody else has,and that's pride,which unfortunately doesn't pay the bills either.
I should be thankful for my decent health and strength ( which I am ) or I would be in a mess. One learns to get on with things and hope for the best.
I too payed into a private pension, but the company I was with failed to honour their side of the deal.
It ended up going to the PPF, and the bosses got away scot free. Not all benefit claimers are bad.
In fact some would love to work, but for various reasons can't. I understand your frustrations, but not all are scroungers.
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I know. It makes you feel very bitter at times when you've worked all your life and done the right thing by paying into a pension----------pity nobody told you that you were wasting your time that paying into a pension made you exempt from claiming anything in the future as it took you above the limit of any entitlements which eventually makes you worse off than those who claim everything that opens and shuts. That's the reward many,including myself get for bothering to get out of bed in the morning.
I suppose the only thing we've got that nobody else has,and that's pride,which unfortunately doesn't pay the bills either.
I should be thankful for my decent health and strength ( which I am ) or I would be in a mess. One learns to get on with things and hope for the best.
Hahahaah! Ain't THAT the truth ;D ;D ;D
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I too payed into a private pension, but the company I was with failed to honour their side of the deal.
It ended up going to the PPF, and the bosses got away scot free. Not all benefit claimers are bad.
In fact some would love to work, but for various reasons can't. I understand your frustrations, but not all are scroungers.
Buddy, I'm aware of that. Not for a MOMENT am I suggesting that such is the case.
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I too payed into a private pension, but the company I was with failed to honour their side of the deal.
It ended up going to the PPF, and the bosses got away scot free. Not all benefit claimers are bad.
In fact some would love to work, but for various reasons can't. I understand your frustrations, but not all are scroungers.
The cost of living when I was working wasn't as it is now,Buddy and the pension I get was commensurate with the pay during the 70's,80's and 90's-------that's why I'm moaning.
It's money for old rope with some jobs today,as well as benefits which probably amount to more than I get with nearly 40 years of work behind me. This is what sickens me most.
If I'd have realised that my health would hold out,I'd still be working.
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The cost of living when I was working wasn't as it is now,Buddy and the pension I get was commensurate with the pay during the 70's,80's and 90's-------that's why I'm moaning.
It's money for old rope with some jobs today,as well as benefits which probably amount to more than I get with nearly 40 years of work behind me. This is what sickens me most.
If I'd have realised that my health would hold out,I'd still be working.
Like I said Lookout I really do understand your frustrations. A lot of benefits have been cut, and in my view unfairly. I fully understand what you mean by scroungers the trouble is the true people have been drawn in.
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Like I said Lookout I really do understand your frustrations. A lot of benefits have been cut, and in my view unfairly. I fully understand what you mean by scroungers the trouble is the true people have been drawn in.
Yes, they have Buddy, but you may be certain that it isn't the scroungers who'll lose out. THEY'LL go on collecting,. It's the TRULY needy who'll lose out.
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Yes, they have Buddy, but you may be certain that it isn't the scroungers who'll lose out. THEY'LL go on collecting,. It's the TRULY needy who'll lose out.
In that case Jane we will have to live with it. I am desperately sorry for those poor souls in need.
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In that case Jane we will have to live with it. I am desperately sorry for those poor souls in need.
I'm rather afraid we will, Buddy. I'm cynic enough to believe it won't make a SCRAP of difference, to the lives of many of us, WHICH party governs.
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I'm rather afraid we will, Buddy. I'm cynic enough to believe it won't make a SCRAP of difference, to the lives of many of us, WHICH party governs.
I don't vote Jane.
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I don't vote Jane.
I don't blame you, Buddy. Within a few months of an election -whatever the result- I wonder why I bothered.
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Supporting evidence to 'confirm there was an attack alarm' which was activated from within the farmhouse by 3.29am, is contained in 'a police telex message' log. All types of alarm such as 'intruder alarms' and 'attack alarms' which were fed directly through to the police are 'automatically recorded' there as one of many telex messages 'when' activated! The times that police units got deployed to respond to such occurences are 'also' recorded! There is little doubt from what I have seen that 'PC Myall' left to go to the farmhouse 'long before the occupants of CA07' containing 'PS Bews' and 'PS Saxby' did! The telex message log I have seen has 'the occupants of CA07' being deployed to the incident at '3.45am', not 3.35am! Bonnetts 'handwritten note' that the occupants of 'CA07' were deployed to the incident at '3.35am', and that they 'arrived' there at '3.48am', is false! From his console (6) in the incident room 'he typed' in the fact that 'CA07 were deployed at 3.45am', hence why in the police 'telex message' log it 'flagged up' correctly as 3.45am! The handwritten version of 'Malcolm Bonnetts' 3.26am log, therefore has 'misleading information' recorded upon it and in it. He 'typed' in at his keyboard that 'CA07 had been deployed to the incident at 3.45am', which was 'after Jeremy called Chelmsford police station' at 3.36am, why would he record the time 'inaccurately' as though they had been deployed '10 minutes' earlier? The answer seems clear to me, the handwritten phone log made by 'Malcolm Bonnett', was 'not' written up contemporaneously, it was made up and 'written out much later' on another occasion! Probably after the 'nature of the police investigation altered' from 'four murders and a suicide', into 'five murders', by which time the 'audio recordings' of Neville Bambers 3.26am call to Witham police station which 'got diverted' to Chelmsford incident room by the 'automated service' deployed back at Witham because there was 'no-one' available to take Nevilles call at that time, and 'Jeremys' call to Chelmsford police station at '3.36am', had both been (arguably) 'destroyed' or 'disposed of' because they were over '28 days' old. Bews and Saxby did 'not arrive' at the scene until '3.58am', they 'weren't there' at '3.48am', but 'PC Myall' was 'already there', he was there in time to see 'the scruffy looking hunched man walking away from the farmhouse' at '3.45am', not at 'about' 3.45am, and certainly not 'about an hour before the firearm officers arrived at the scene' (5am) in keeping with 'Kim Sengupta's News article' on the matter! The reason why 'Bonnetts' 3.26am phone log records the time that CA07 was deployed to the incident and arrived there, is recorded as having taken place 10 minutes sooner than they had been, was because at the time Bonnet wrote out the handwritten version of his 3.26am log, 'Jeremy' had already been interviewed in early September about the sequence with which 'he had called the police and his girlfriend' Julie Mugford! He told the 'interviewing officers' that he had called Julie first then the police! They took Jeremy to task on that asssertion 'reminding him' that on the morning of the incident he had told officers at the scene that 'he had tried phoning Witham police station' but had got no reply, and then 'he had phoned Julie'! Jeremy 'appeared confused' when challenged about this, and 'eventually conceded' that 'what he had originally told the officers at the scene' that he had tried to phone Witham police station before he had phoned Julie, and not the other way round, 'must be the true sequence' of events! But, 'Jeremy' had tried to contact Witham police 'before he phoned his girlfriend' but got no answer, and he had phoned Chelmsford police 'after he had spoken' to Julie! What the police knew and have known all along, is that 'Neville Bambers' distress call was made at 3.26am, and that 'Jeremys' call to Chelmsford occurred at 3.36am, 10 minutes later! Somebody in authority who was possibly 'trying to keep the lid on' the true nature of the 'incident' at the farmhouse (the murders of Neville, June and their two grandchildren on the one hand, and the 'circumstances of the death of Sheila', who perhaps may have originally been 'earmarked as the patsy' to take the blame for the other deaths, if we lean toward Giovanni De Stefano's explanation for what might have occured involving a spy ring conspiracy) realised that by presenting the time of 'Jeremys' 3.36am call to Chelmsford, as having occurred 10 minutes sooner, it would 'serve to mask the fact that Neville Bamber had made his distress call' at around the time that 'Jeremy' had attempted to contact Witham police station himself unsuccessfully! Hence why during the trial 'an attempt was made' to try and get 'PC West' to agree that he could have 'made a mistake' when looking at the control room clock by as much as 10 minutes. In the end though PC West 'wasn't prepared to accept' that he had made such a glaring error! The 'fact is', he didn't...
The contents of both logs (Bonnetts 3.26am log, and Wests 3.36am log) were 'never disclosed together', alongside one another during the trial, or the 'subsequent' failed appeal and the 'contradictory nature' of both were 'never considered' or 'debated, and no court 'judgement' given which dispensed the issues arising therein, because the prosecution made Jeremys call (PC Wests 3.36am log) the subject of 'a mistaken time' having been recorded by PC West. There was 'nothing presented' to suggest or imply that the 'contents of each log' supported the fact that Neville and Jeremy had contacted the police about the same matter, albeit 'couched in terminology' representative of 'Neville telling police himself' what was happening, and 'Jeremy telling police what Neville had told him' was happening!
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A 999 call at 6.09am.
Wouldn't it have been easier for Nevill to go outside & meet the police ?
I think Neville Bamber was already dead by the time the '999' call got made from inside the farmhouse at 6.09am - which leaves June or Sheila as the caller..
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Exactly, they were all outside, no need to call anyone. Honestly! ::)
I think Neville Bamber was already dead by the time the '999' call got made from inside the farmhouse at 6.09am - which leaves June or Sheila as the caller..
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No evidence has been posted of a 999 call being made at any time from WHF.
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No evidence has been posted of a 999 call being made at any time from WHF.
it has, a '999' call was being monitored by a police officer, as opposed to the call transferred to the control room by the operator being monitored by civilian employees...
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Middle Eastern countries are no worse at treating their citizens than this country !! We allowed those who were misplaced in war-torn countries to enter this country for safety,etc. What ? Liverpool is one of the cities whose refugees/asylum-seekers are sleeping on the streets !!
I find this very upsetting and distressing as they are literally penniless because their appeals to remain in this country have been rejected. They were invited to come here for God's sake !! I'm utterly furious that governments have conned people in this way.What hope have they got in this cruel and uncaring state ?
Liverpool has the greatest number of asylum seekers in the country-----no thanks to the Labour-controlled council who'll now do sod all for them. Shame on Joe Anderson and his motley crew of council workers,who all got a pat on the back for " taking these poor desperate souls " under their wings------my eye !!
Hi lookout just been reading that Liverpool have opened a huge homeless centre off London Road. Apart from sleeping and hot meals, there is help for rough sleepers to access real help and guidance, use computers and get support to get in touch with families and look for jobs etc. This is the first such huge development in the country. Liverpool still has a heart thank goodneas.
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Hi lookout just been reading that Liverpool have opened a huge homeless centre off London Road. Apart from sleeping and hot meals, there is help for rough sleepers to access real help and guidance, use computers and get support to get in touch with families and look for jobs etc. This is the first such huge development in the country. Liverpool still has a heart thank goodneas.
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Hi Maggie,is this the building at Hatton Gardens ? Kingsway House,I think. Yes,I remember reading about a place being opened for the homeless and those affected by drugs,etc,where there is genuine support for these people in the way of a team working towards helping and assisting with the prospect of having their own homes.
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Hi lookout just been reading that Liverpool have opened a huge homeless centre off London Road. Apart from sleeping and hot meals, there is help for rough sleepers to access real help and guidance, use computers and get support to get in touch with families and look for jobs etc. This is the first such huge development in the country. Liverpool still has a heart thank goodneas.
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Hi Maggie,is this the building at Hatton Gardens ? Kingsway House,I think. Yes,I remember reading about a place being opened for the homeless and those affected by drugs,etc,where there is genuine support for these people in the way of a team working towards helping and assisting with the prospect of having their own homes.
Thought it said off London Road Lookout. Will have to check. It seems to be a huge building which has been open for about a week. Have been thinking of those poor people, wind ofarm the Merseyside in winter is enough to kill anyone. Brilliant move. I gather the government have refused to fund it but they're doing it anyway.
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Thought it said off London Road Lookout. Will have to check. It seems to be a huge building which has been open for about a week. Have been thinking of those poor people, wind ofarm the Merseyside in winter is enough to kill anyone. Brilliant move. I gather the government have refused to fund it but they're doing it anyway.
So up by or past TJ's somewhere ? I knew about the Hatton Garden place,but not that one. I must look out for it. Of course the government won't want to know anything like that,it's beneath them. They'd rather throw money at the art gallery where you find unmade beds and a crude brick layout in the name of art ::)
Joe Anderson will be making the council cough up too,even if it means extra on council tax------as after all those who moan and complain about beggars and the homeless will also complain over a slight rise in rates,even when it's they who do the most moaning about these people. Can't win with them.
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So up by or past TJ's somewhere ? I knew about the Hatton Garden place,but not that one. I must look out for it. Of course the government won't want to know anything like that,it's beneath them. They'd rather throw money at the art gallery where you find unmade beds and a crude brick layout in the name of art ::)
Joe Anderson will be making the council cough up too,even if it means extra on council tax------as after all those who moan and complain about beggars and the homeless will also complain over a slight rise in rates,even when it's they who do the most moaning about these people. Can't win with them.
Camden street off London Road. It used to benjoy a dance studio but has been done up and opened as an officiak shelter by the council. Seems to be a big 4 storey building with room for all rough sleepers.
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So up by or past TJ's somewhere ? I knew about the Hatton Garden place,but not that one. I must look out for it. Of course the government won't want to know anything like that,it's beneath them. They'd rather throw money at the art gallery where you find unmade beds and a crude brick layout in the name of art ::)
Joe Anderson will be making the council cough up too,even if it means extra on council tax------as after all those who moan and complain about beggars and the homeless will also complain over a slight rise in rates,even when it's they who do the most moaning about these people. Can't win with them.
Yes, it's Jo Anderson who's instigated it. Thing is there's no help for anything like this for local councils but any decent person should realise rough sleeping on the city streets is shameful and these people need warmth and safety. When I was young there was real poverty but don't remember seeing anyone sleeping on the streets of course we had lots of council housrs and people had a roof over there head back then. Good for Liverpool anyway, hope other cities have the guts to do the same. :)
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Yes, it's Jo Anderson who's instigated it. Thing is there's no help for anything like this for local councils but any decent person should realise rough sleeping on the city streets is shameful and these people need warmth and safety. When I was young there was real poverty but don't remember seeing anyone sleeping on the streets of course we had lots of council housrs and people had a roof over there head back then. Good for Liverpool anyway, hope other cities have the guts to do the same. :)
I agree Maggie,these people should not be judged. Nobody knows of their circumstances or how they ended up like that.
I don't remember seeing any rough sleepers years ago,probably because it was cheaper to live and there wasn't the nonsense that there is now with unemployment benefits being sanctioned if you don't find a job ( an horrendous arrangement if ever there was one ) it's caused untold unnecessary hardship and misery. So unfair.
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I agree Maggie,these people should not be judged. Nobody knows of their circumstances or how they ended up like that.
I don't remember seeing any rough sleepers years ago,probably because it was cheaper to live and there wasn't the nonsense that there is now with unemployment benefits being sanctioned if you don't find a job ( an horrendous arrangement if ever there was one ) it's caused untold unnecessary hardship and misery. So unfair.
I agree, the guy I saw who's already sleeping in the shelter, he lost his home because he was in hospital and his landlord let his flat to someone else. Hard to believe really.
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I agree, the guy I saw who's already sleeping in the shelter, he lost his home because he was in hospital and his landlord let his flat to someone else. Hard to believe really.
That's so cruel Maggie. Have they no hearts ? Look at the amount of servicemen sleeping rough too.
Shameful !
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How like you to wish ill on someone who disagrees with your summations, Lookout. Of COURSE I understand -having, like you, read about it- that there are SOME parents who exploit their children, but I don't make sweeping statements about all children being thieves. I'm fully aware that there are 'professional' pick-pockets who work our cities but they're not ALL either children or Romanians.
PS. I think you'll find that Jeremy WAS proved guilty.
Guilty under FALSE pretences. I'd give up the game if I were you !!
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Guilty under FALSE pretences. I'd give up the game if I were you !!
You're the one who screaming 'FALSE' pretenses but from much of what you let out of your mouth before you stop to check it's veracity, you can't always be trusted to tell the truth, the WHOLE truth, and nothing but the truth, can you?...................in fact, I wholly believe you'd insist that night was day if you thought it would benefit Jeremy.
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I have removed posts from this thread. What a disgraceful personal attack that was on another poster.
If anyone has a problem about a phrase used by another poster ie. Anything you may judge as racist, sexist, ageist or anything else they can complain to Admin or a moderator. Anymore abusive personal attacks like that and I will ban both of you or anyone else who behaves in a similar manner. You know who you are, take this as a warning.
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I have removed posts from this thread. What a disgraceful personal attack that was on another poster.
If anyone has a problem about a phrase used by another poster ie. Unsupervised it as racist, sexist, ageist or anything else they can complain to Admin or a moderator. Anymore abusive personal attacks like that and I will ban both of you or anyone else who behaves in a similar manner. You know who you are, take this as a warning.
If you wish to ban me for pointing out Lookouts racist post, or her homophobic post towards me, feel free. Says a lot.
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If you wish to ban me for pointing out Lookouts racist post, or her homophobic post towards me, feel free. Says a lot.
I would ban you for being so abusive to another poster. I don't know what you are inferring by 'says a lot' but please don't accuse me of being racist that really would be ridiculous. I must have missed the homophobic post or are you referring to a post which was removed in the past?
As I said if you have a complaint against any poster you can report it through the proper channels, two posters chucking abuse at anyone in that way is not acceptable.
The post you were referring to should have been edited but sometimes these things get missed and as I say you only had to report it.
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I would ban you for being so abusive to another poster. I don't know what you are inferring by 'says a lot' but please don't accuse me of being racist that really would be ridiculous. I must have missed the homophobic post or are you referring to a post which was removed in the past?
As I said if you have a complaint against any poster you can report it through the proper channels, two posters chucking abuse at anyone in that way is not acceptable.
The post you were referring to should have been edited but sometimes these things get missed and as I say you only had to report it.
No I wasn't calling you Racist. Not sure how you came to that conclusion.
The homophobic post I PM'd you about - and NGB was included in the PM. He dealt with it and responded to my PM. YOU were included in that PM too. Not sure how you missed all of that, but ok.
I don't believe it's personal abuse to call someone racist for a racist comment - that you say should have been deleted but wasn't.
Not is it a personal attack to call someone homophobic for calling me a big fairy.
I'd also call being called "White trash" which lookout called me in this topic, as racist.
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No I wasn't calling you Racist. Not sure how you came to that conclusion.
The homophobic post I PM'd you about - and NGB was included in the PM. He dealt with it and responded to my PM. YOU were included in that PM too. Not sure how you missed all of that, but ok.
I don't believe it's personal abuse to call someone racist for a racist comment - that you say should have been deleted but wasn't.
Not is it a personal attack to call someone homophobic for calling me a big fairy.
I'd also call being called "White trash" which lookout called me in this topic, as racist.
The comment you refer to was clearly homophobic and should have been dealt with on the open forum - I think too many things are hidden and not dealt with openly and it gives the impression of bias - sorry, but that is the way I now see it.
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I have removed posts from this thread. What a disgraceful personal attack that was on another poster.
If anyone has a problem about a phrase used by another poster ie. Anything you may judge as racist, sexist, ageist or anything else they can complain to Admin or a moderator. Anymore abusive personal attacks like that and I will ban both of you or anyone else who behaves in a similar manner. You know who you are, take this as a warning.
I think this should have been dealt with on the open forum, Maggie. If a poster is capable of making ANY inappropriate, politically incorrect comments -no matter who they're directed at- if they choose to reveal that side of themselves publicly, they should expect to be reprimanded publicly. Perhaps, even given a temporary ban.
Now the posts have been removed, it's difficult to recall who said what to whom, although I suspect that it's obvious where the problem had it's origins. My own recall, is that one poster was defending themselves against the most appallingly unacceptable insults, which the poster who was dishing them out refused to accept responsibility for. As a consequence, the slurs became more vitriolic. It requires immense and superhuman effort, when one finds oneself in such circumstances, to be objective enough to take a step back, report it to a mod and wait for the mod to see it and act on it as they -you?- see it, which isn't necessarily the way the offended poster sees it. Indeed, rather than acknowledging that a poster has every right to defend themselves against the slurs, it sounds as if that poster is being threatened with a ban for doing so, whilst the poster responsible remains free to do it again.............but perhaps I'm reading it incorrectly? For my own part in it, I have no recall of saying anything unfounded, nor did I use any bad language. Indeed, I said nothing that I wouldn't have said to anyone else under similar circumstances. To make my position clear, I can't accept that I was part of "a disgraceful personal attack on another poster". The adjectives used indicate from where the attack came.
You don't need me to tell you that unresolved problems never go away. They sit there very quietly -becoming added to- until the next opportunity arises to reveal themselves. It would be good if the instigator of any problem had the grace and humility to back down and apologize -especially so at this time of year- rather than maintaining a position of always being justified. I think there comes a time when we object to being the ones who are expected to make allowances for other's behaviours.
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I think this should have been dealt with on the open forum, Maggie. If a poster is capable of making ANY inappropriate, politically incorrect comments -no matter who they're directed at- if they choose to reveal that side of themselves publicly, they should expect to be reprimanded publicly. Perhaps, even given a temporary ban.
Now the posts have been removed, it's difficult to recall who said what to whom, although I suspect that it's obvious where the problem had it's origins. My own recall, is that one poster was defending themselves against the most appallingly unacceptable insults, which the poster who was dishing them out refused to accept responsibility for. As a consequence, the slurs became more vitriolic. It requires immense and superhuman effort, when one finds oneself in such circumstances, to be objective enough to take a step back, report it to a mod and wait for the mod to see it and act on it as they -you?- see it, which isn't necessarily the way the offended poster sees it. Indeed, rather than acknowledging that a poster has every right to defend themselves against the slurs, it sounds as if that poster is being threatened with a ban for doing so, whilst the poster responsible remains free to do it again.............but perhaps I'm reading it incorrectly? For my own part in it, I have no recall of saying anything unfounded, nor did I use any bad language. Indeed, I said nothing that I wouldn't have said to anyone else under similar circumstances. To make my position clear, I can't accept that I was part of "a disgraceful personal attack on another poster". The adjectives used indicate from where the attack came.
You don't need me to tell you that unresolved problems never go away. They sit there very quietly -becoming added to- until the next opportunity arises to reveal themselves. It would be good if the instigator of any problem had the grace and humility to back down and apologize -especially so at this time of year- rather than maintaining a position of always being justified. I think there comes a time when we object to being the ones who are expected to make allowances for other's behaviours.
If you read all lookouts posts on the subject anyone could see that she is most compassionate about rough sleepers whether asylum seekers, refugees, ex servicemen or anyone else, if she had not been I would not have been posting with her about a new rough sleeping centre opened by Liverpool city council, the first in the country with no funding from the government.
I agree that the post should have been taken down at the time and that is maybe my fault I hold my hand up if I am at fault although I would add I am not infallible and don't try to be. I agree the comment on Rumanians was racist because it inferred that all Rumanians were the same, as I said in further posts lookout did not say she was upset and appalled at the sight of rough sleepers EXCEPT Rumanians who deserved what they got therefore one would assume she meant SOME Rumanians and I would guess this is a local problem.
I am the first to point out such speech is racist even if not intended to be so.
I cannot agree that if someone hits back when they are under intense personal attack from two people on here that they are the abuser. In such circumstances most people would attack back and all posts are removed.
It seems in this instance that the attack on Lookout about this post began on red and was then brought over here which is not acceptable behavour on this forum. Also, when accusing others of racism maybe some should look at the people they are happily mixing with before they take the high ground.
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If you read all lookouts posts on the subject anyone could see that she is most compassionate about rough sleepers whether asylum seekers, refugees, ex servicemen or anyone else, if she had not been I would not have been posting with her about a new rough sleeping centre opened by Liverpool city council, the first in the country with no funding from the government.
I agree that the post should have been taken down at the time and that is maybe my fault I hold my hand up if I am at fault although I would add I am not infallible and don't try to be. I agree the comment on Rumanians was racist because it inferred that all Rumanians were the same, as I said in further posts lookout did not say she was upset and appalled at the sight of rough sleepers EXCEPT Rumanians who deserved what they got therefore one would assume she meant SOME Rumanians and I would guess this is a local problem.
I am the first to point out such speech is racist even if not intended to be so.
I cannot agree that if someone hits back when they are under intense personal attack from two people on here that they are the abuser. In such circumstances most people would attack back and all posts are removed.
It seems in this instance that the attack on Lookout about this post began on red and was then brought over here which is not acceptable behavour on this forum. Also, when accusing others of racism maybe some should look at the people they are happily mixing with before they take the high ground.
I agree entirely with your comments Maggie, in this and earlier posts. Some people here are skating on thin ice now. We will need to be firmer in our approach towards bullying behaviour. I fear we have been too slow to act in the past.
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If you read all lookouts posts on the subject anyone could see that she is most compassionate about rough sleepers whether asylum seekers, refugees, ex servicemen or anyone else, if she had not been I would not have been posting with her about a new rough sleeping centre opened by Liverpool city council, the first in the country with no funding from the government.
I agree that the post should have been taken down at the time and that is maybe my fault I hold my hand up if I am at fault although I would add I am not infallible and don't try to be. I agree the comment on Rumanians was racist because it inferred that all Rumanians were the same, as I said in further posts lookout did not say she was upset and appalled at the sight of rough sleepers EXCEPT Rumanians who deserved what they got therefore one would assume she meant SOME Rumanians and I would guess this is a local problem.
I am the first to point out such speech is racist even if not intended to be so.
I cannot agree that if someone hits back when they are under intense personal attack from two people on here that they are the abuser. In such circumstances most people would attack back and all posts are removed.
It seems in this instance that the attack on Lookout about this post began on red and was then brought over here which is not acceptable behavour on this forum. Also, when accusing others of racism maybe some should look at the people they are happily mixing with before they take the high ground.
I agree that no one can be everywhere and I very much doubt ANYONE spends 24/7 on the forum (even though they are accused of it). I didn't see the racism stuff so really can't comment on that but I don't believe that Lookout is a racist. However, I don't agree that Lookout is attacked (if you are talking about Jane and I). She makes quite a few outlandish claims and personally, I just wish she would back them up or at least state where she read the info and I will post the source for her. Problem is, when you ask her, she takes it personally or if you show she is wrong, she gets defensive. Are we supposed to give her a wide birth and not comment at all for fear of being accused of bullying? I have never abused anyone on this forum and certainly resent the implication. The only person who I have no regard for is David - he goads continually and if he can do it to me, then he deserves the same in return. By the way, I have no problem (as you know) with my posts being removed when I retaliate.
I know the job of a moderator isn't easy and in the end you generally get blamed whatever you do and of course, I have seen it from both sides. However, when someone is out of order (like the fairy comment) or the stuff Mike posted in response to Justice, I think we should all have a right to interject and register a protest - just taking it down with no response (when people have seen it) just causes resentment and the feeling that we're being silenced. Also, I am very happy with the people I mix with - not sure what that comment is implying? People who I thought were genuine were quick to turn on me when I changed opinion - but that's their business.
By the way, I think the comments on the red forum are out of order and think the thread should be taken down!
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Caroline,how brave of you ! I appreciate what you have said and also thank you for having some understanding of the situation. Very best wishes to you.x
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Caroline,how brave of you ! I appreciate what you have said and also thank you for having some understanding of the situation. Very best wishes to you.x
I agree Lookout. Well done Caroline.
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Caroline,how brave of you ! I appreciate what you have said and also thank you for having some understanding of the situation. Very best wishes to you.x
You're welcome Lookout. I think what might have started out as 'banter' has become something else entirely. Sometimes your posts really wind me up (and likewise I am sure ;D ;D ;D) but we can thrash things out without it getting 'too' out of hand. I wouldn't like to be the brunt of something like that - it would make me uneasy and it's just plain wrong. X
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You're welcome Lookout. I think what might have started out as 'banter' has become something else entirely. Sometimes your posts really wind me up (and likewise I am sure ;D ;D ;D) but we can thrash things out without it getting 'too' out of hand. I wouldn't like to be the brunt of something like that - it would make me uneasy and it's just plain wrong. X
I think you're the only one who " knows " me. ;D ;D
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If you read all lookouts posts on the subject anyone could see that she is most compassionate about rough sleepers whether asylum seekers, refugees, ex servicemen or anyone else, if she had not been I would not have been posting with her about a new rough sleeping centre opened by Liverpool city council, the first in the country with no funding from the government.
I agree that the post should have been taken down at the time and that is maybe my fault I hold my hand up if I am at fault although I would add I am not infallible and don't try to be. I agree the comment on Rumanians was racist because it inferred that all Rumanians were the same, as I said in further posts lookout did not say she was upset and appalled at the sight of rough sleepers EXCEPT Rumanians who deserved what they got therefore one would assume she meant SOME Rumanians and I would guess this is a local problem.
I am the first to point out such speech is racist even if not intended to be so.
I cannot agree that if someone hits back when they are under intense personal attack from two people on here that they are the abuser. In such circumstances most people would attack back and all posts are removed.
It seems in this instance that the attack on Lookout about this post began on red and was then brought over here which is not acceptable behavour on this forum. Also, when accusing others of racism maybe some should look at the people they are happily mixing with before they take the high ground.
Maggie, on those occasions when Lookout reveals a more compassionate side of her character I start to think I've misjudged her. However, she then reveals a vitriol quite incommensurate with what has been said to her. I refer to those things she said to Mat. We none of us know the person to whom we're speaking, so whilst we can object to what they say on the forum, we have no right to make judgement calls about them which are homophobic, and possibly racist. I have no idea at who you aim your point re "..........some should look at the people they are happily mixing with before they take the high ground" or why. I have seen what's been said about Lookout on red. Just to be clear, I do NOT agree with it. Furthermore, and not for the first time, I'll reiterate that whilst I feel that SOME of her comments are ENTIRELY out of order, I have NOTHING against Lookout, personally. I have a strong feeling that she and I know exactly which buttons to push and when to push them.
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If you read all lookouts posts on the subject anyone could see that she is most compassionate about rough sleepers whether asylum seekers, refugees, ex servicemen or anyone else, if she had not been I would not have been posting with her about a new rough sleeping centre opened by Liverpool city council, the first in the country with no funding from the government.
I agree that the post should have been taken down at the time and that is maybe my fault I hold my hand up if I am at fault although I would add I am not infallible and don't try to be. I agree the comment on Rumanians was racist because it inferred that all Rumanians were the same, as I said in further posts lookout did not say she was upset and appalled at the sight of rough sleepers EXCEPT Rumanians who deserved what they got therefore one would assume she meant SOME Rumanians and I would guess this is a local problem.
I am the first to point out such speech is racist even if not intended to be so.
I cannot agree that if someone hits back when they are under intense personal attack from two people on here that they are the abuser. In such circumstances most people would attack back and all posts are removed.
It seems in this instance that the attack on Lookout about this post began on red and was then brought over here which is not acceptable behavour on this forum. Also, when accusing others of racism maybe some should look at the people they are happily mixing with before they take the high ground.
I don't think it matters where it started, it was pointed out on the red, but the comments by Lookout were made on this forum. The two slurs Lookout used against me were posted on this forum.
But as usual, you say that you didn't see them. Even though you were PM'd by me about them - and you were included in the PM that NGB sent to me about speaking to Lookout regarding the slur.
Also, when accusing others of racism maybe some should look at the people they are happily mixing with before they take the high ground.
If this is a barb aimed at us who post on red. We're not responsible for anything that the red forum does or say. So don't try and group us together.
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I don't think it matters where it started, it was pointed out on the red, but the comments by Lookout were made on this forum. The two slurs Lookout used against me were posted on this forum.
But as usual, you say that you didn't see them. Even though you were PM'd by me about them - and you were included in the PM that NGB sent to me about speaking to Lookout regarding the slur.
If this is a barb aimed at us who post on red. We're not responsible for anything that the red forum does or say. So don't try and group us together.
'As usual you said you didn't see them' are you accusing me of lying? I cannot remember anything much about this. I do remember that Neil dealt with it and of course if you pmd both myself and Neil he would have replied including me however that doesn't mean I was on the forum. Without knowing when this was posted I cannot even guess as to whether I was around at the time or on holiday, or out for the day. |Of |Neil had already dealt with the problem there was little reason fr me to then start adding anything else.
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'As usual you said you didn't see them' are you accusing me of lying? I cannot remember anything much about this. I do remember that Neil dealt with it and of course if you pmd both myself and Neil he would have replied including me however that doesn't mean I was on the forum. Without knowing when this was posted I cannot even guess as to whether I was around at the time or on holiday, or out for the day. |Of |Neil had already dealt with the problem there was little reason fr me to then start adding anything else.
All I know is that whether you remember it or not, it happned and you were in the PM thread with NGB and I.
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The comment you refer to was clearly homophobic and should have been dealt with on the open forum - I think too many things are hidden and not dealt with openly and it gives the impression of bias - sorry, but that is the way I now see it.
When I do deal with things on the open forum whatever it is I am often accused of being unfair, insensitive and vindictive, when I pull some people up by pm I am accused of being sneaky or in your opinion not dealing with things openly. We simply cannot win. I do not understand what you want me to do about abusive posts as far as I am aware arguments and attacks should surely be discouraged by locking threads editing and removing posts. If all posts are left up and personal arguments aren't curbed and all problems are dealt with on the open forum then there will be little room for posters to post their opinions and debate and it would be impossible for guests and readers of the forum to battle through each thread packed full of abusive posts and personal arguments imo
It must be pretty frustrating for people reading different subjects and coming up against endless post full of squabbles and insults, would think it puts many people off joining in debates on here.
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All I know is that whether you remember it or not, it happned and you were in the PM thread with NGB and I.
I am not saying it didn't happen all I am saying is that you seem to be accusing me of something concerning a complaint you made to myself and ngb and I am trying to answer your point ie. why I did not reply to you and the only reasons I have is that I may not have been on the forum on that day, ngb dealt with it and I guess I agreed with his response therefore that was it dealt with. I don't know what you are trying to prove Mat I am not homophobic, why should I be?
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I am not saying it didn't happen all I am saying is that you seem to be accusing me of something concerning a complaint you made to myself and ngb and I am trying to answer your point ie. why I did not reply to you and the only reasons I have is that I may not have been on the forum on that day, ngb dealt with it and I guess I agreed with his response therefore that was it dealt with. I don't know what you are trying to prove Mat I am not homophobic, why should I be?
I don't know what you're going on about. I don't care that you didn't reply. NGB dealt with it. My issue was you stating you don't remember homophobic comments, I don't see how you don't remember, - I think you knew what was said and who said it absolutely. But ok, Maggie.
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I don't know what you're going on about. I don't care that you didn't reply. NGB dealt with it. My issue was you stating you don't remember homophobic comments, I don't see how you don't remember, - I think you knew what was said and who said it absolutely. But ok, Maggie.
I didn't say I didn't know about it what I said was that by the time I read the post it had been dealt with by ngb. This happens from time to time. You can be as dismissive as you like to me but you were insinuating that somehow I was in denial that it happened which is not true.
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When I do deal with things on the open forum whatever it is I am often accused of being unfair, insensitive and vindictive, when I pull some people up by pm I am accused of being sneaky or in your opinion not dealing with things openly. We simply cannot win. I do not understand what you want me to do about abusive posts as far as I am aware arguments and attacks should surely be discouraged by locking threads editing and removing posts. If all posts are left up and personal arguments aren't curbed and all problems are dealt with on the open forum then there will be little room for posters to post their opinions and debate and it would be impossible for guests and readers of the forum to battle through each thread packed full of abusive posts and personal arguments imo
It must be pretty frustrating for people reading different subjects and coming up against endless post full of squabbles and insults, would think it puts many people off joining in debates on here.
Perhaps the thread on which the dispute is occurring could be moved -for a test period- to "Off Topic". I'm not saying it would work but we've seen what happens when disputes are forced to end by removing posts to "Hidden Threads". The post may have been removed. The problem doesn't go away. If posters are given space to let off steam and thrash things out, in all likelihood it won't be carried on the next day.
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I didn't say I didn't know about it what I said was that by the time I read the post it had been dealt with by ngb. This happens from time to time. You can be as dismissive as you like to me but you were insinuating that somehow I was in denial that it happened which is not true.
You did seem to be in denial that it happened, you didn't seem to remember the comment last night. So you agree, Lookout made a homophobic slur, and you've also said her post about Romanians was racist. Yet you still attempted to shout down Jane and I last night and threaten us with a ban, and have been snide with Jane, Caroline and I today.
I think the issue here is that you try to come across fair and balanced on the forum. But a handful of us have seen your remarks about us off the forum. If I had been racist, sexist or homophobic, I wouldn't still be here - you would have seen to that.
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When I do deal with things on the open forum whatever it is I am often accused of being unfair, insensitive and vindictive, when I pull some people up by pm I am accused of being sneaky or in your opinion not dealing with things openly. We simply cannot win. I do not understand what you want me to do about abusive posts as far as I am aware arguments and attacks should surely be discouraged by locking threads editing and removing posts. If all posts are left up and personal arguments aren't curbed and all problems are dealt with on the open forum then there will be little room for posters to post their opinions and debate and it would be impossible for guests and readers of the forum to battle through each thread packed full of abusive posts and personal arguments imo
It must be pretty frustrating for people reading different subjects and coming up against endless post full of squabbles and insults, would think it puts many people off joining in debates on here.
A little consistency
For instance, if Adam posted something that someone complained about or you thought was out of order, you would warn him about it on the open forum. When Lookout called Mat a 'fairly' - there was nothing. I can't comment on what happened last night as I wasn't here. I don't agree with the thread on the red forum in respect to Lookout but they are using this forum as justification for it as the impression is 'she can do no wrong'. I'm not saying anything else on the subject but if you don't lance a boil it just festers.
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A little consistency
For instance, if Adam posted something that someone complained about or you thought was out of order, you would warn him about it on the open forum. When Lookout called Mat a 'fairly' - there was nothing. I can't comment on what happened last night as I wasn't here. I don't agree with the thread on the red forum in respect to Lookout but they are using this forum as justification for it as the impression is 'she can do no wrong'. I'm not saying anything else on the subject but if you don't lance a boil it just festers.
I'm going to follow your lead. :)
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A little consistency
For instance, if Adam posted something that someone complained about or you thought was out of order, you would warn him about it on the open forum. When Lookout called Mat a 'fairly' - there was nothing. I can't comment on what happened last night as I wasn't here. I don't agree with the thread on the red forum in respect to Lookout but they are using this forum as justification for it as the impression is 'she can do no wrong'. I'm not saying anything else on the subject but if you don't lance a boil it just festers.
Maggie will be the first to admit that if I post something she doesn't like she will be all over me on the main board. I have requested that this isn't done, but my requests have been refused.
Lookout, JackieD, JaneJ & you would just have a block removal annoncement after lenghty and agressive online arguments. Rather than individual singling out.
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A little consistency
For instance, if Adam posted something that someone complained about or you thought was out of order, you would warn him about it on the open forum. When Lookout called Mat a 'fairly' - there was nothing. I can't comment on what happened last night as I wasn't here. I don't agree with the thread on the red forum in respect to Lookout but they are using this forum as justification for it as the impression is 'she can do no wrong'. I'm not saying anything else on the subject but if you don't lance a boil it just festers.
It does indeed. Simply preventing a problem from being aired won't make it disappear. In fact, it can end up as a carbuncle.
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Maggie will be the first to admit that if I post something she doesn't like she will be all over me on the main board. I have requested that this isn't done, but my requests have been refused.
Lookout, JackieD, JaneJ & you would just have a block removal annoncement after lenghty and agressive online arguments. Rather than individual singling out.
That is not true Adam I occasionally comment on the open forum and if you choose to speak to me on the forum thwn I shall reply to you, it works both ways but I very often pm you and you dont like that so I speak to you on the forum and then you dont like that either. I have let you off over and over again
Ironically I have protected you in the past and did not ban you when everyone wanted you banned but now you accuse me of protecting others and bullying you. As I said I can't win.
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I was just agreeing with Caroline & get the blame on the main board !
I did request that you don't single me out on the main board. You said 'I will post to you however I want'.
I don't recall you ever posting anything negative to Lookout, JackieD, Caroline or JaneJ. Although there posts are block removed on a regular basis when they abuse each other. But that is ok & that's the way it will always be.
What is surprising is why David can constantly post other people's 5 year old posts, pictures, cartoons & 'gish gash' posts. I know he worked with NGB on his 'forensic evidence breakthrough' but that shouldn't mean he can constantly goad.
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Maybe Neville Bamber was totally incapacitated by that stage?
Was his life already terminated by 6.09am?
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Maybe Neville Bamber was totally incapacitated by that stage?
Was his life already terminated by 6.09am?
It was long before that.
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I was just agreeing with Caroline & get the blame on the main board !
I did request that you don't single me out on the main board. You said 'I will post to you however I want'.
I don't recall you ever posting anything negative to Lookout, JackieD, Caroline or JaneJ. Although there posts are block removed on a regular basis when they abuse each other. But that is ok & that's the way it will always be.
What is surprising is why David can constantly post other people's 5 year old posts, pictures, cartoons & 'gish gash' posts. I know he worked with NGB on his 'forensic evidence breakthrough' but that shouldn't mean he can constantly goad.
I only single you out because you single me ut on the forum and by pm. You seem to think it's OK to speak to me on the forum or by pm as if I'm a piece of dirt. Why should I put up with such behsvour? I'm polite to you even when picking you up about something. I spoke to both you and David about dragging up old posts, you cannot accuse someone of goading by doing this and then do it yourself and get offended if you are both told to stop it. I have never been abusive to you so why can you not treat me in the same way?
Anyway, I've said enough now, think we should move on now.
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It was long before that.
Well,at least we can agree on that then - but somebody made a 999 call from inside the farmhouse to the control room at 6.09am, and for what its worth that person could not possibly have been Jeremy Bamber, seems to me to almost certainly have been Sheila Caffell, can't see how it could have been June Bamber if there wasn't a phone upstairs in the main bedroom by that stage...
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Well,at least we can agree on that then - but somebody made a 999 call from inside the farmhouse to the control room at 6.09am, and for what its worth that person could not possibly have been Jeremy Bamber, seems to me to almost certainly have been Sheila Caffell, can't see how it could have been June Bamber if there wasn't a phone upstairs in the main bedroom by that stage...
There is no proof of a call Mike.
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Nobody made a 999 call. The available evidence (including Jean Rowe's) makes it obvious that a log reference to 999 was a mistake by a police officer.
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Well,at least we can agree on that then - but somebody made a 999 call from inside the farmhouse to the control room at 6.09am, and for what its worth that person could not possibly have been Jeremy Bamber, seems to me to almost certainly have been Sheila Caffell, can't see how it could have been June Bamber if there wasn't a phone upstairs in the main bedroom by that stage...
You can go on saying it for as long as you like, but it won't mean it ever happened.
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Nobody made a 999 call. The available evidence (including Jean Rowe's) makes it obvious that a log reference to 999 was a mistake by a police officer.
How many mistakes is/was that----can you list them ? This was a murder trial.
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How many mistakes is/was that----can you list them ? This was a murder trial.
There were lots, no one is saying there weren't any but that's a far cry from such mistakes leading to a MOJ.
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Common forms of misconduct by law enforcement officials :
Employing suggestion when conducting identification procedures.
Coercing false confessions.
Lying or intentionally misleading jurors about their observations.
Failing to turn over exculpatory evidence to prosecutors.
Providing incentives to secure unreliable evidence from informants.
Common forms of misconduct by prosecutors include :
Withholding exculpatory evidence from the defence.
Deliberately mishandling,mistreating or destroying evidence.
Allowing witnesses they know or should know are not truthful to testify.
Pressuring defence witnesses not to testify.
Relying on fraudulent forensic experts.
Making misleading arguments that overstate the probative value of testimony.
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This is our Justice System of which there is no safeguard in the prevention of MOJ's occurring. Corrupt !!
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This is our Justice System of which there is no safeguard in the prevention of MOJ's occurring. Corrupt !!
Actually, no it isn't ;D. This is the site you pasted the info from https://www.innocenceproject.org/causes/government-misconduct/
Had you read more of it, you would have found that it is referring to the USA
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Actually, no it isn't ;D. This is the site you pasted the info from https://www.innocenceproject.org/causes/government-misconduct/
Had you read more of it, you would have found that it is referring to the USA
The same applies here. Their legal system is based on ours.
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Nobody made a 999 call. The available evidence (including Jean Rowe's) makes it obvious that a log reference to 999 was a mistake by a police officer.
I disagree, there certainly was a '999' call, and the officer who's task it was to monitor it, did make a witness statement but at a meeting between Essex police and the DPP, they decided to not seek to rely on that officers evidence! Now, if that officer wasn't monitoring a 999 call, why wouldn't Essex police and the DPP want him to testify about the call he was monitoring, what he heard, etc, etc, etc...
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The same applies here. Their legal system is based on ours.
That's right,apart from the death sentence in certain states. Also Death Row is akin to those here who serve long sentences while suffering MOJ's. I would liken such sentences as a slow death to those innocents who are locked up.
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It's still Government misconduct whichever country it is and there ARE some corrupt Governments.
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The same applies here. Their legal system is based on ours.
Really? Your report is based on the palm print ;D ;D ;D ;D
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That's right,apart from the death sentence in certain states. Also Death Row is akin to those here who serve long sentences while suffering MOJ's. I would liken such sentences as a slow death to those innocents who are locked up.
The US legal system is quite different from ours.
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The US legal system is quite different from ours.
The sentiments are the same.
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The US legal system is quite different from ours.
You’re right Caroline, the US justice system is something I can’t get my head around. Illusion of justice is a good read about the system over there. But there is also a huge amount of corruption over there and racism has a lot to with it. . Stupid sods keep getting caught out though.
I don’t get some of the stuff they do. Just a few days ago there was a piece on finding 293 places for prisoners with dimentia and in wheelchairs, shipping them off to other prisons isn’t really the answer and won’t solve the problem.
There sentencing is much harsher than ours. Most prisoners who were there but did not commit the actual homicde get life without parole. They are going to run out of space soon lol
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You’re right Caroline, the US justice system is something I can’t get my head around. Illusion of justice is a good read about the system over there. But there is also a huge amount of corruption over there and racism has a lot to with it. . Stupid sods keep getting caught out though.
I don’t get some of the stuff they do. Just a few days ago there was a piece on finding 293 places for prisoners with dimentia and in wheelchairs, shipping them off to other prisons isn’t really the answer and won’t solve the problem.
There sentencing is much harsher than ours. Most prisoners who were there but did not commit the actual homicde get life without parole. They are going to run out of space soon lol
Hi Notsure, yes VERY racist which allowed the OJ defence to play the race card - I don't think OJ would have gotten off here. Their jury system is odd too - selection is called voir dire where the judge and council basically interviews each juror as to their suitability.
There are a massive disproportionate number of black people both incarcerated and on death row - you are far more likely to receive the death penalty if you're black.
I don't suppose anyone has a perfect system and there is always be those that abuse it but I think I prefer ours to theirs.
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Hi Notsure, yes VERY racist which allowed the OJ defence to play the race card - I don't think OJ would have gotten off here. Their jury system is odd too - selection is called voir dire where the judge and council basically interviews each juror as to their suitability.
There are a massive disproportionate number of black people both incarcerated and on death row - you are far more likely to receive the death penalty if you're black.
I don't suppose anyone has a perfect system and there is always be those that abuse it but I think I prefer ours to theirs.
Me too