Author Topic: " Fresh evidence uncovered ",as stated in todays Essex and Colchester Gazette.  (Read 30464 times)

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guest154

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I would ban you for being so abusive to another poster. I don't know what you are inferring by 'says a lot' but please don't accuse me of being racist that really would be ridiculous. I must have missed the homophobic post or are you referring to a post which was removed in the past?
As I said if you have a complaint against any poster you can report it through the proper channels, two posters chucking abuse at anyone in that way is not acceptable.
The post you were referring to should have been edited but sometimes these things get missed and as I say you only had to report it.

No I wasn't calling you Racist. Not sure how you came to that conclusion.
The homophobic post I PM'd you about - and NGB was included in the PM. He dealt with it and responded to my PM. YOU were included in that PM too. Not sure how you missed all of that, but ok.

I don't believe it's personal abuse to call someone racist for a racist comment - that you say should have been deleted but wasn't.

Not is it a personal attack to call someone homophobic for calling me a big fairy.

I'd also call being called "White trash" which lookout called me in this topic, as racist.


Offline Caroline

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No I wasn't calling you Racist. Not sure how you came to that conclusion.
The homophobic post I PM'd you about - and NGB was included in the PM. He dealt with it and responded to my PM. YOU were included in that PM too. Not sure how you missed all of that, but ok.

I don't believe it's personal abuse to call someone racist for a racist comment - that you say should have been deleted but wasn't.

Not is it a personal attack to call someone homophobic for calling me a big fairy.

I'd also call being called "White trash" which lookout called me in this topic, as racist.

The comment you refer to was clearly homophobic and should have been dealt with on the open forum - I think too many things are hidden and not dealt with openly and it gives the impression of bias - sorry, but that is the way I now see it.
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Offline Jane

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I have removed posts from this thread. What a disgraceful personal attack that was on another poster.
If anyone has a problem about a phrase used by another poster ie. Anything you may judge   as racist, sexist, ageist or anything else they can complain to Admin or a moderator. Anymore abusive personal attacks like that and I will ban both of you or anyone else who behaves in a similar manner. You know who you are, take this as a warning.

I think this should have been dealt with on the open forum, Maggie. If a poster is capable of making ANY inappropriate, politically incorrect comments -no matter who they're directed at- if they choose to reveal that side of themselves publicly, they should expect to be reprimanded publicly. Perhaps, even given a temporary ban.
 Now the posts have been removed, it's difficult to recall who said what to whom, although I suspect that it's obvious where the problem had it's origins. My own recall, is that one poster was defending themselves against the most appallingly unacceptable insults, which the poster who was dishing them out refused to accept responsibility for. As a consequence, the slurs became more vitriolic. It requires immense and superhuman effort, when one finds oneself in such circumstances, to be objective enough to take a step back, report it to a mod and wait for the mod to see it and act on it as they -you?- see it, which isn't necessarily the way the offended poster sees it. Indeed, rather than acknowledging that a poster has every right to defend themselves against the slurs, it sounds as if that poster is being threatened with a ban for doing so, whilst the poster responsible remains free to do it again.............but perhaps I'm reading it incorrectly? For my own part in it, I have no recall of saying anything unfounded, nor did I use any bad language. Indeed, I said nothing that I wouldn't have said to anyone else under similar circumstances. To make my position clear, I can't accept that I was part of "a disgraceful personal attack on another poster". The adjectives used indicate from where the attack came.
 You don't need me to tell you that unresolved problems never go away. They sit there very quietly -becoming added to- until the next opportunity arises to reveal themselves. It would be good if the instigator of any problem had the grace and humility to back down and apologize -especially so at this time of year- rather than maintaining a position of always being justified. I think there comes a time when we object to being the ones who are expected to make allowances for other's behaviours.

Offline maggie

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I think this should have been dealt with on the open forum, Maggie. If a poster is capable of making ANY inappropriate, politically incorrect comments -no matter who they're directed at- if they choose to reveal that side of themselves publicly, they should expect to be reprimanded publicly. Perhaps, even given a temporary ban.
 Now the posts have been removed, it's difficult to recall who said what to whom, although I suspect that it's obvious where the problem had it's origins. My own recall, is that one poster was defending themselves against the most appallingly unacceptable insults, which the poster who was dishing them out refused to accept responsibility for. As a consequence, the slurs became more vitriolic. It requires immense and superhuman effort, when one finds oneself in such circumstances, to be objective enough to take a step back, report it to a mod and wait for the mod to see it and act on it as they -you?- see it, which isn't necessarily the way the offended poster sees it. Indeed, rather than acknowledging that a poster has every right to defend themselves against the slurs, it sounds as if that poster is being threatened with a ban for doing so, whilst the poster responsible remains free to do it again.............but perhaps I'm reading it incorrectly? For my own part in it, I have no recall of saying anything unfounded, nor did I use any bad language. Indeed, I said nothing that I wouldn't have said to anyone else under similar circumstances. To make my position clear, I can't accept that I was part of "a disgraceful personal attack on another poster". The adjectives used indicate from where the attack came.
 You don't need me to tell you that unresolved problems never go away. They sit there very quietly -becoming added to- until the next opportunity arises to reveal themselves. It would be good if the instigator of any problem had the grace and humility to back down and apologize -especially so at this time of year- rather than maintaining a position of always being justified. I think there comes a time when we object to being the ones who are expected to make allowances for other's behaviours.
If you read all lookouts posts on the subject anyone could see that she is most compassionate about rough sleepers whether asylum seekers, refugees, ex servicemen or anyone else, if she had not been I would not have been posting with her about a new rough sleeping centre opened by Liverpool city council, the first in the country with no funding from the government. 
I agree that the post should have been taken down at the time and that is maybe my fault I hold my hand up if  I am at fault although I would add I am not infallible and don't try to be.  I agree the comment on Rumanians was racist because it inferred that all Rumanians were the same, as I said in further posts lookout did not say she was upset and appalled at the sight of rough sleepers EXCEPT Rumanians who deserved what they got therefore one would assume she meant SOME Rumanians and I would guess this is a local problem.
I am the first to point out such speech is racist even if not intended to be so.
I cannot agree that if someone hits back when they are under intense personal attack from two people on here that they are the abuser.  In such circumstances most people would attack back and all posts are removed.
It seems in this instance that the attack on Lookout about this post began on red and was then brought over here which is not acceptable behavour on this forum.  Also, when accusing others of racism maybe some should look at the people they are happily mixing with before they take the high ground.

Offline ngb1066

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If you read all lookouts posts on the subject anyone could see that she is most compassionate about rough sleepers whether asylum seekers, refugees, ex servicemen or anyone else, if she had not been I would not have been posting with her about a new rough sleeping centre opened by Liverpool city council, the first in the country with no funding from the government. 
I agree that the post should have been taken down at the time and that is maybe my fault I hold my hand up if  I am at fault although I would add I am not infallible and don't try to be.  I agree the comment on Rumanians was racist because it inferred that all Rumanians were the same, as I said in further posts lookout did not say she was upset and appalled at the sight of rough sleepers EXCEPT Rumanians who deserved what they got therefore one would assume she meant SOME Rumanians and I would guess this is a local problem.
I am the first to point out such speech is racist even if not intended to be so.
I cannot agree that if someone hits back when they are under intense personal attack from two people on here that they are the abuser.  In such circumstances most people would attack back and all posts are removed.
It seems in this instance that the attack on Lookout about this post began on red and was then brought over here which is not acceptable behavour on this forum.  Also, when accusing others of racism maybe some should look at the people they are happily mixing with before they take the high ground.

I agree entirely with your comments Maggie, in this and earlier posts.  Some people here are skating on thin ice now.  We will need to be firmer in our approach towards bullying behaviour.  I fear we have been too slow to act in the past.

 

Offline Caroline

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If you read all lookouts posts on the subject anyone could see that she is most compassionate about rough sleepers whether asylum seekers, refugees, ex servicemen or anyone else, if she had not been I would not have been posting with her about a new rough sleeping centre opened by Liverpool city council, the first in the country with no funding from the government. 
I agree that the post should have been taken down at the time and that is maybe my fault I hold my hand up if  I am at fault although I would add I am not infallible and don't try to be.  I agree the comment on Rumanians was racist because it inferred that all Rumanians were the same, as I said in further posts lookout did not say she was upset and appalled at the sight of rough sleepers EXCEPT Rumanians who deserved what they got therefore one would assume she meant SOME Rumanians and I would guess this is a local problem.
I am the first to point out such speech is racist even if not intended to be so.
I cannot agree that if someone hits back when they are under intense personal attack from two people on here that they are the abuser.  In such circumstances most people would attack back and all posts are removed.
It seems in this instance that the attack on Lookout about this post began on red and was then brought over here which is not acceptable behavour on this forum.  Also, when accusing others of racism maybe some should look at the people they are happily mixing with before they take the high ground.

I agree that no one can be everywhere and I very much doubt ANYONE spends 24/7 on the forum (even though they are accused of it). I didn't see the racism stuff so really can't comment on that but I don't believe that Lookout is a racist. However, I don't agree that Lookout is attacked (if you are talking about Jane and I). She makes quite a few outlandish claims and personally, I just wish she would back them up or at least state where she read the info and I will post the source for her. Problem is, when you ask her, she takes it personally or if you show she is wrong, she gets defensive. Are we supposed to give her a wide birth and not comment at all for fear of being accused of bullying? I have never abused anyone on this forum and certainly resent the implication. The only person who I have no regard for is David - he goads continually and if he can do it to me, then he deserves the same in return. By the way, I have no problem (as you know) with my posts being removed when I retaliate.

I know the job of a moderator isn't easy and in the end you generally get blamed whatever you do and of course, I have seen it from both sides. However, when someone is out of order (like the fairy comment) or the stuff Mike posted in response to Justice, I think we should all have a right to interject and register a protest - just taking it down with no response (when people have seen it) just causes resentment and the feeling that we're being silenced. Also, I am very happy with the people I mix with - not sure what that comment is implying? People who I thought were genuine were quick to turn on me when I changed opinion - but that's their business.

By the way, I think the comments on the red forum are out of order and think the thread should be taken down!
« Last Edit: December 18, 2017, 12:26:PM by Caroline »
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Offline lookout

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Caroline,how brave of you ! I appreciate what you have said and also thank you for having some understanding of the situation. Very best wishes to you.x

Offline ngb1066

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Caroline,how brave of you ! I appreciate what you have said and also thank you for having some understanding of the situation. Very best wishes to you.x

I agree Lookout.  Well done Caroline.




Offline Caroline

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Caroline,how brave of you ! I appreciate what you have said and also thank you for having some understanding of the situation. Very best wishes to you.x

You're welcome Lookout. I think what might have started out as 'banter' has become something else entirely. Sometimes your posts really wind me up (and likewise I am sure  ;D ;D ;D) but we can thrash things out without it getting 'too' out of hand. I wouldn't like to be the brunt of something like that - it would make me uneasy and it's just plain wrong. X
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Offline lookout

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You're welcome Lookout. I think what might have started out as 'banter' has become something else entirely. Sometimes your posts really wind me up (and likewise I am sure  ;D ;D ;D) but we can thrash things out without it getting 'too' out of hand. I wouldn't like to be the brunt of something like that - it would make me uneasy and it's just plain wrong. X






I think you're the only one who " knows " me.  ;D ;D

Offline Jane

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If you read all lookouts posts on the subject anyone could see that she is most compassionate about rough sleepers whether asylum seekers, refugees, ex servicemen or anyone else, if she had not been I would not have been posting with her about a new rough sleeping centre opened by Liverpool city council, the first in the country with no funding from the government. 
I agree that the post should have been taken down at the time and that is maybe my fault I hold my hand up if  I am at fault although I would add I am not infallible and don't try to be.  I agree the comment on Rumanians was racist because it inferred that all Rumanians were the same, as I said in further posts lookout did not say she was upset and appalled at the sight of rough sleepers EXCEPT Rumanians who deserved what they got therefore one would assume she meant SOME Rumanians and I would guess this is a local problem.
I am the first to point out such speech is racist even if not intended to be so.
I cannot agree that if someone hits back when they are under intense personal attack from two people on here that they are the abuser.  In such circumstances most people would attack back and all posts are removed.
It seems in this instance that the attack on Lookout about this post began on red and was then brought over here which is not acceptable behavour on this forum.  Also, when accusing others of racism maybe some should look at the people they are happily mixing with before they take the high ground.

Maggie, on those occasions when Lookout reveals a more compassionate side of her character I start to think I've misjudged her. However, she then reveals a vitriol quite incommensurate with what has been said to her. I refer to those things she said to Mat. We none of us know the person to whom we're speaking, so whilst we can object to what they say on the forum, we have no right to make judgement calls about them which are homophobic, and possibly racist. I have no idea at who you aim your point re "..........some should look at the people they are happily mixing with before they take the high ground"  or why. I have seen what's been said about Lookout on red. Just to be clear, I do NOT agree with it. Furthermore, and not for the first time, I'll reiterate that whilst I feel that SOME of her comments are ENTIRELY out of order, I have NOTHING against Lookout, personally. I have a strong feeling that she and I know exactly which buttons to push and when to push them.

« Last Edit: December 18, 2017, 02:07:PM by Jane J »

guest154

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If you read all lookouts posts on the subject anyone could see that she is most compassionate about rough sleepers whether asylum seekers, refugees, ex servicemen or anyone else, if she had not been I would not have been posting with her about a new rough sleeping centre opened by Liverpool city council, the first in the country with no funding from the government. 
I agree that the post should have been taken down at the time and that is maybe my fault I hold my hand up if  I am at fault although I would add I am not infallible and don't try to be.  I agree the comment on Rumanians was racist because it inferred that all Rumanians were the same, as I said in further posts lookout did not say she was upset and appalled at the sight of rough sleepers EXCEPT Rumanians who deserved what they got therefore one would assume she meant SOME Rumanians and I would guess this is a local problem.
I am the first to point out such speech is racist even if not intended to be so.
I cannot agree that if someone hits back when they are under intense personal attack from two people on here that they are the abuser.  In such circumstances most people would attack back and all posts are removed.
It seems in this instance that the attack on Lookout about this post began on red and was then brought over here which is not acceptable behavour on this forum. Also, when accusing others of racism maybe some should look at the people they are happily mixing with before they take the high ground.

I don't think it matters where it started, it was pointed out on the red, but the comments by Lookout were made on this forum. The two slurs Lookout used against me were posted on this forum.

But as usual, you say that you didn't see them. Even though you were PM'd by me about them - and you were included in the PM that NGB sent to me about speaking to Lookout regarding the slur.


Also, when accusing others of racism maybe some should look at the people they are happily mixing with before they take the high ground.

If this is a barb aimed at us who post on red. We're not responsible for anything that the red forum does or say. So don't try and group us together.

Offline maggie

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I don't think it matters where it started, it was pointed out on the red, but the comments by Lookout were made on this forum. The two slurs Lookout used against me were posted on this forum.

But as usual, you say that you didn't see them. Even though you were PM'd by me about them - and you were included in the PM that NGB sent to me about speaking to Lookout regarding the slur.


If this is a barb aimed at us who post on red. We're not responsible for anything that the red forum does or say. So don't try and group us together.
'As usual you said you didn't see them' are you accusing me of lying? I cannot remember anything much about this. I do remember that Neil dealt with it and of course if you pmd both myself and Neil he would have replied including me  however that doesn't mean I was on the forum.  Without knowing when this was posted I cannot even guess as to whether I was around at the time or on holiday, or out for the day.  |Of |Neil had already dealt with the problem there was little reason fr me to then start adding anything else.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2017, 06:08:PM by maggie »

guest154

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'As usual you said you didn't see them' are you accusing me of lying? I cannot remember anything much about this. I do remember that Neil dealt with it and of course if you pmd both myself and Neil he would have replied including me  however that doesn't mean I was on the forum.  Without knowing when this was posted I cannot even guess as to whether I was around at the time or on holiday, or out for the day.  |Of |Neil had already dealt with the problem there was little reason fr me to then start adding anything else.

All I know is that whether you remember it or not, it happned and you were in the PM thread with NGB and I.

Offline maggie

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The comment you refer to was clearly homophobic and should have been dealt with on the open forum - I think too many things are hidden and not dealt with openly and it gives the impression of bias - sorry, but that is the way I now see it.
When I do deal with things on the open forum whatever it is I am often accused of being unfair, insensitive and vindictive, when I pull some people up by pm I am accused of being sneaky or in your opinion not dealing with things openly.   We simply cannot win.  I do not understand what you want me to do about abusive posts as far as I am aware arguments and attacks should surely be discouraged by locking threads editing and removing posts. If all posts are left up and personal arguments aren't curbed and all problems are dealt with on the open forum then there will be little room for posters to post their opinions and debate and it would be impossible for guests and readers of the forum to battle through each thread packed full of abusive posts and personal arguments imo
It must be pretty frustrating for people reading different subjects and coming up against endless post full of squabbles and insults, would think it puts many people off joining in debates on here.