Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: Jan on July 09, 2017, 10:41:AM
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I have seen this dismissed on this forum several times as a mistake .
Either that the officer did not see it
Or it could have been a broom or something similar?
So the officer was a firearms officer with experience.
So I think we can assume she knows what a rifle looks like.
But if she was wrong then there must have been something that looked very much like a rifle in one window of the side of the house she was facing.
If This s noti in the crime scene photos I think we can establish that something was moved from the time of her sighting to the time of the crime scene photos . So even if it was a broom someone must have moved it?
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Part of the statement
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Sorry bear with me iPad novice😎
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Second attempt
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Even so,if it was a broom,it had still vanished from the window.
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Even so,if it was a broom,it had still vanished from the window.
Well we would need to check all the crime scene photos to confirm that .
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So the questions . Which room did she see the object in?
Was there anything in the window in the crime scene photos ?
Even a suggested broom
Out of interest was it a low window? Some of these old houses did have quite long low windows .
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Pity she cant clarify her self. She's now a Conservative Councilor but doesn't want to cooperate with any further questions about it.
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Pity she cant clarify her self. She's now a Conservative Councilor but doesn't want to cooperate with any further questions about it.
really ?
Do we know how old she was when she became a firearms officer? She must have been quite a would have thought to get that position in those days .
It's white clear she was something .
Ok it appeared to be a rifle could be used as conjecture . But she saw an object in a window at that time . So it should be in the crime scene photos?
Or someone in the house moved it.
So something long like a gun?
Can think of anything else except a broom? And did they not have a housekeeper ? She would not have left a broom hanging around?
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really ?
Do we know how old she was when she became a firearms officer? She must have been quite a would have thought to get that position in those days .
It's white clear she was something .
Ok it appeared to be a rifle could be used as conjecture . But she saw an object in a window at that time . So it should be in the crime scene photos?
Or someone in the house moved it.
So something long like a gun?
Can think of anything else except a broom? And did they not have a housekeeper ? She would not have left a broom hanging around?
I thought I read on CT site that it was passed off as a hoover nozzle :-\
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That " broom " if it was such, must have been there when officers were looking up at the windows,yet it wasn't reported until after 7am ?
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https://youtu.be/mmCART1vcCo
Mike posted a video on this.
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I thought I read on CT site that it was passed off as a hoover nozzle :-\
Not with a bump in it :-[
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Full statement:
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1387.0.html
(http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1387.0.html)
I wonder how experienced she was. She retired in 2015 and says she served over 30 years.
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Full statement:
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1387.0.html
(http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1387.0.html)
I wonder how experienced she was. She retired in 2015 and says she served over 30 years.
Thank you for the full statement .
I always thought you would have to be quite experienced before being allowed into the firearms section?
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Which room is this ?
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Does anyone agree with Mike that the police shot Sheila. Then after photographs had been taken of the rifle by the window, the police put that rifle on top of Sheila prior to photos being taken of her.
Not sure why the police would do this. Or shoot Sheila if she was not armed.
This obviously widens the industrial frame. As pathologists would have to say the bullets in Sheila were from the rifle on her. Rather than a police rifle.
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Does anyone agree with Mike that the police shot Sheila. Then after photographs had been taken of the rifle by the window, the police put that rifle on top of Sheila prior to photos being taken of her.
Not sure why the police would do this. Or shoot Sheila if she was not armed.
This obviously widens the industrial frame. As pathologists would have to say the bullets in Sheila were from the rifle on her. Rather than a police rifle.
Keep to the thread please . There are other threads that cover your question . Or start another one so you can try and beat your own record
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Keep to the thread please . There are other threads that cover your question . Or start another one so you can try and beat your own record
Don't tell me what to do.
My last post was keeping to the thread. If you don't agree with Mike's theory , it was simply another rifle by the window.
Or the rifle on Sheila had been moved to the window, after her photo's had been taken & after she had been been removed from WHF.
If you have another conspiracy theory, please say. Otherwise the thread is pointless.
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Don't tell me what to do.
My last post was keeping to the thread. If you don't agree with Mike's theory , it was simply another rifle by the window.
Or the rifle on Sheila had been moved to the window, after her photo's had been taken & after she had been been removed from WHF.
If you have another conspiracy theory, please say. Otherwise the thread is pointless.
What I believe is irrelevant .
I am trying to establish what room this is .
And if this is supposed to be the murder weapon.
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Does anyone agree with Mike that the police shot Sheila. Then after photographs had been taken of the rifle by the window, the police put that rifle on top of Sheila prior to photos being taken of her.
Not sure why the police would do this. Or shoot Sheila if she was not armed.
This obviously widens the industrial frame. As pathologists would have to say the bullets in Sheila were from the rifle on her. Rather than a police rifle.
Er Nope, Mike claims the police shot Sheila not once but twice, once down stairs and once upstairs, the second being from the rifle at the window that was put there by Sheila for a Flag of Truce. So the rifle at the window was there because Sheila was surrendering. So that's the rifle solved.
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Er Nope, Mike claims the police shot Sheila not once but twice, once down stairs and once upstairs, the second being from the rifle at the window that was put there by Sheila for a Flag of Truce. So the rifle at the window was there because Sheila was surrendering. So that's the rifle solved.
I know Mike believes the police shot Sheila twice. I didn't know the locations he believes the shots happened.
So the police shot Sheila once in the neck downstairs. Sheila still managed to get upstairs.
Then the police shot her again upstairs in the neck. This time with another rifle found at WHF.
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I know Mike believes the police shot Sheila twice. I didn't know the locations he believes the shots happened.
So the police shot Sheila once in the neck downstairs. Sheila still managed to get upstairs.
Then the police shot her again upstairs in the neck. This time with another rifle found at WHF.
Yep, with their own police rifle after tussling with them, she then went upstairs and layed on the bed, the police thought she was dead, panicked, obviously they would because it would be a different bullet and the Pathologist and firearms experts would pick this up, Little did they realise at the time that both these were corrupt, so they got the rifle from the window, layed it on top of Sheila then BANG, a second shot to the neck. So bloody unlucky.
It's all in here
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,8281.0.html
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I know Mike believes the police shot Sheila twice. I didn't know the locations he believes the shots happened.
So the police shot Sheila once in the neck downstairs. Sheila still managed to get upstairs.
Then the police shot her again upstairs in the neck. This time with another rifle found at WHF.
Allegedly, she saw the gun come round the door, and pulled it towards her and it accidentally went off hitting her in the neck, after which she played dead till they went upstairs -or possibly she fainted?- then she made her way upstairs, lay on the bed and appeared to be dead. I guess they put a gun across her her because they didn't know where else to put it. Anyway,m some bright spark thought it best to make it safe and in the attempt the gun went off hitting her in the neck a second time -are you still with me? It was then they realized she hadn't been dead..................but she was now.
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Allegedly, she saw the gun come round the door, and pulled it towards her and it accidentally went off hitting her in the neck, after which she played dead till they went upstairs -or possibly she fainted?- then she made her way upstairs, lay on the bed and appeared to be dead. I guess they put a gun across her her because they didn't know where else to put it. Anyway,m some bright spark thought it best to make it safe and in the attempt the gun went off hitting her in the neck a second time -are you still with me? It was then they realized she hadn't been dead..................but she was now.
Heheheee! As you said, Justice, BLOODY unlucky. Great minds, eh? ;D ;D ;D
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Heheheee! As you said, Justice, BLOODY unlucky. Great minds, eh? ;D ;D ;D
If only they had checked see if it was loaded before placing it on her.
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If only they had checked see if it was loaded before placing it on her.
The luxury of hindsight, eh? ;D ;D ;D
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The luxury of hindsight, eh? ;D ;D ;D
Quite true Jane,
If the alleged rifle was at the window it had to be someone else who shot Sheila twice in the throat by accident? It's a very very big IF though.
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Quite true Jane,
If the alleged rifle was at the window it had to be someone else who shot Sheila twice in the throat by accident? It's a very very big IF though.
There are many, MANY of those very, VERY big, IF'S, Justice................TOO many?
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I asked about this before and requested a timeline but nothing was put up. We have WPC Jeapes' statement as to what she saw and when but I'm still unclear as to exactly what time the Raid Team entered and when the alleged rifle had disappeared from the window casement she was covering.
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Er Nope, Mike claims the police shot Sheila not once but twice, once down stairs and once upstairs, the second being from the rifle at the window that was put there by Sheila for a Flag of Truce. So the rifle at the window was there because Sheila was surrendering. So that's the rifle solved.
Where did I ask what mike claimed?
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I asked about this before and requested a timeline but nothing was put up. We have WPC Jeapes' statement as to what she saw and when but I'm still unclear as to exactly what time the Raid Team entered and when the alleged rifle had disappeared from the window casement she was covering.
I think it was said that the police took this picture after the main pictures . But what I am trying to establish is we're these messy chairs with clothes on them in the main bedroom ? In front of the window.
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Where did I ask what mike claimed?
Sorry, you didn't,Adam did, unless your Adam :)). There is other people posting on here, because someone starts a topic doesn't mean they own it :-\
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Sorry, you didn't,Adam did, unless your Adam :)). There is other people posting on here, because someone starts a topic doesn't mean they own it :-\
Adam will not like that comment.
He thinks I am some little old nanny who can't keep up with posts .
If only he knew the truth . 😉
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Ok so I have established the don't appear to have been any photos of the " box room" where jeapes is supposed to have seen the rifle
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If her description does describe the box room.
So if the rifle was put in the window of the main bedroom there must be more furniture in the corner by the door than appears in other photos plus they have put a box of some sorts .
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There are many, MANY of those very, VERY big, IF'S, Justice................TOO many?
It cannot be no other, because if the said rifle was at the window then moved to the body it has to be stage managed by the police. That's why Mike says the police shot her once downstairs and once upstairs, Mike knows Sheila never shot herself and it was stage managed, so he has to push this theory and blame the police. So this then brings a lot more people into Roch's claim of corruption, taking away just a handful as suggested. So we have two police officers shooting Sheila, unless it was the same officer who shot her on the bed, both by accident, wonder what the raid team talked about when they got back for debrief?
The relatives then find a silencer who at this stage didn't know there was blood inside because the police planted the blood after the relatives handed it over, or moved the baffles, hid by the police to hide the fact that they had shot Sheila, the police plant Sheila's blood inside to make it look like Jeremy had done it, even though they are covering up the fact that they had shot Sheila twice? Just off to watch a movie BOB HOPE my favourite, Road to nowhere (rio)
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It cannot be no other, because if the said rifle was at the window then moved to the body it has to be stage managed by the police. That's why Mike says the police shot her once downstairs and once upstairs, Mike knows Sheila never shot herself and it was stage managed, so he has to push this theory and blame the police. So this then brings a lot more people into Roch's claim of corruption, taking away just a handful as suggested. So we have two police officers shooting Sheila, unless it was the same officer who shot her on the bed, both by accident, wonder what the raid team talked about when they got back for debrief?
The relatives then find a silencer who at this stage didn't know there was blood inside because the police planted the blood after the relatives handed it over, or moved the baffles, hid by the police to hide the fact that they had shot Sheila, the police plant Sheila's blood inside to make it look like Jeremy had done it, even though they are covering up the fact that they had shot Sheila twice? Just off to watch a movie BOB HOPE my favourite, Road to nowhere (rio)
Huh! I'll bet that alleged policeman wished he'd never got out of bed that morning. Oscar Wilde might have described it as "Shooting her once was unfortunate. Shooting her twice was incompetent".
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Huh! I'll bet that alleged policeman wished he'd never got out of bed that morning. Oscar Wilde might have described it as "Shooting her once was unfortunate. Shooting her twice was incompetent".
Or impossible :)
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Or impossible :)
WONDERFUL!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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So this is the same room ? so at some point during the crime scene photos the police moved the rifle and put other objects in the window as well ?
In one of the sketches it shows one chair in the corner ?
But it looks more like two ? And lots of clothes ? Linen on top
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Those chairs on the left don't look like they are loaded with clothes do they ?
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Adam will not like that comment.
He thinks I am some little old nanny who can't keep up with posts .
If only he knew the truth . 😉
Jan I know the truth and I know you are not any type of nanny who can't keep up :))
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Jan I know the truth and I know you are not any type of nanny who can't keep up :))
Adam does not know what he is missing .
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Is it possible that documentary picures have been mixed up with crime scene ones?
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So does anyone know if this picture is a genuine crime scene on the day photo?
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Which room is this ?
What I call the sewing room.
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What I call the sewing room.
No it can't be . They are all listed as pictures of the main bedroom?
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No it can't be . They are all listed as pictures of the main bedroom?
Study the windows of the main bedroom against those of which I call the sewing room.I see a marked difference in the actual window ( besides the lack of clothing stacked up )
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Adam does not know what he is missing .
Hahaha Jan think Adam is better not knowing what he is missing :))
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He misses what he wants to miss. We can all do that---------we probably do. ;D
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Study the windows of the main bedroom against those of which I call the sewing room.I see a marked difference in the actual window ( besides the lack of clothing stacked up )
But the picture of the clothes piled up is taken from the hallway stairs and is said to be the main bedroom?
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Image 465 is definitely the main bedroom see the parcel type object on the left hand side
So how can the picture of the room with the rifle in the window clothes laundry piled on the chair and objects in the window be the same room ?
Someone help me out here ?
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But the picture of the clothes piled up is taken from the hallway stairs and is said to be the main bedroom?
I'd call it a through room between the two bedrooms. When you see the pic of a bed where one window is,then look at the window where the clothes are piled up,they're two separate room spaces and neither windows are the same.
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So you are saying the rifle is in the sewing room?
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This is what I'm saying anyway. Wasn't that ( the sewing room ) between two rooms ?
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Image 465 is definitely the main bedroom see the parcel type object on the left hand side
So how can the picture of the room with the rifle in the window clothes laundry piled on the chair and objects in the window be the same room ?
Someone help me out here ?
I'd have said they were two different rooms.
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I'd have said they were two different rooms.
Well 464 is definitely the main bedroom I remember seeing that parcel object from a different angle .
And the bed cover is correct , a red one on top pushed down to the end of the bed.
So next question , why would the police explain that picture as the fact that they just took the rifle off the body for a minute to make it safe ?
Where as it looks like they took it to a completely different room?
Or is that a different rifle ? The one jeapes saw in the window?
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Well 464 is definitely the main bedroom I remember seeing that parcel object from a different angle .
And the bed cover is correct , a red one on top pushed down to the end of the bed.
So next question , why would the police explain that picture as the fact that they just took the rifle off the body for a minute to make it safe ?
Where as it looks like they took it to a completely different room?
Or is that a different rifle ? The one jeapes saw in the window?
I think this is becoming far more complicated than it actually is, however, from the position of the rifle -which to my mind is slightly wide of the window- I don't think it could be seen from outside.
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I think this is becoming far more complicated than it actually is, however, from the position of the rifle -which to my mind is slightly wide of the window- I don't think it could be seen from outside.
Why is it complicated . The police said it was them that placed the rifle in the main bedroom window.
IF the photos are of two different rooms then that is not true is it ?
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"On top of all these 'inconsistencies', there is also the fact that when both DI Cook and PC Bird testified during Bambers trial, they both wrongly claimed that photograph 23 which showed the rifle leaning against the main bedroom window was taken 'after' the other photographs (26 to 33, inclusive) which showed the same rifle on Sheila's body. Yet, photograph No.23 was clearly taken by PC Bird before the other aforementioned photographs. Another thing worthy of note, is that PC Bird stated during his testimony that ' he did not know who had put the rifle at the bedroom window before he took photograph 23', whereas DI Cook stated he had removed it from Sheila's body, had handed it to PI Montgomery to check and make safe, then Cook had placed it at the bedroom window, before PC Bird had come alon"
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Presumably this was after Jeapes's first sighting at 07.15.
Having looked back at a few posts regarding the room with the rifle in the window,it had been referred to as the box room.
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Why is it complicated . The police said it was them that placed the rifle in the main bedroom window.
IF the photos are of two different rooms then that is not true is it ?
Why? It seems to have had a life of it's own. Isn't it possible that it got moved/fell? -after being placed in the main bedroom window- whilst other pictures were taken
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Why? It seems to have had a life of it's own. Isn't it possible that it got moved/fell? -after being placed in the main bedroom window- whilst other pictures were taken
What fell into another room?
All I am trying to establish is if the photos are of the same room or not ?
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bumping up for help .
If these are two different rooms does it make the statement of the police in court about the photo incorrect?
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bumping up for help .
If these are two different rooms does it make the statement of the police in court about the photo incorrect?
I imagine so.
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What fell into another room?
All I am trying to establish is if the photos are of the same room or not ?
Did I suggest it "fell" in a different room? Personally I think they're pictures of different rooms, unless one picture was taken of the room as they found it and the other was taken after it had been tidied................but why would they?
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Did I suggest it "fell" in a different room? Personally I think they're pictures of different rooms, unless one picture was taken of the room as they found it and the other was taken after it had been tidied................but why would they?
If they are different rooms then the explanation given in court when the photo was queried was false .
And it could mean there was another rifle that was taken away ?
I am not expecting to get answers I am just puzzled at the moment .
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If they are different rooms then the explanation given in court when the photo was queried was false .
And it could mean there was another rifle that was taken away ?
I am not expecting to get answers I am just puzzled at the moment .
They are the same room. It is the main bedroom.
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I've always maintained that there were two rifles.
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They are the same room. It is the main bedroom.
I'm happy to take that as being correct, H. Angles make a huge difference to how things look................however, I guess they weren't taken at the same time?
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They are the same room. It is the main bedroom.
So why does one crime scene photo show two chairs away from the window with a small amount of neatly folded clothes
And the other photo shows a pile of clothes laundry ? rubbish and chairs facing a different direction closer to the window and other misc items on the sill ?
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I'm happy to take that as being correct, H. Angles make a huge difference to how things look................however, I guess they weren't taken at the same time?
so you have changed your mind then .
Well the one with the chairs away from the window does appear to be a crime scene photo as you can see the parcel that appears in other photos
And the one with the rifle allegedly happened as they were taking crime scene photos as well .
So presumably the same day
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So why does one crime scene photo show two chairs away from the window with a small amount of neatly folded clothes
And the other photo shows a pile of clothes laundry ? rubbish and chairs facing a different direction closer to the window and other misc items on the sill ?
I'm not sure.
This image shows the plastic bag, so presumably they are both taken on the same day.
(http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=887.0;attach=4093;image)
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They are the same room. It is the main bedroom.
Unless you've physically been in those rooms------then I disagree because in one window you have piles of clothes,in the other you have clearance,but that's not the only difference. As I've already pointed out,the overall structures of the window casements are different.
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so you have changed your mind then .
Well the one with the chairs away from the window does appear to be a crime scene photo as you can see the parcel that appears in other photos
And the one with the rifle allegedly happened as they were taking crime scene photos as well .
So presumably the same day
Firstly, I've never yet found that H. gives less than truthful information. This makes my original opinion incorrect. WHAT would be the point -under the circumstances- of claiming I'm right and he's wrong.
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Unless you've physically been in those rooms------then I disagree because in one window you have piles of clothes,in the other you have clearance,but that's not the only difference. As I've already pointed out,the overall structures of the window casements are different.
I think it's possible that H may know someone who has.
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Unless you've physically been in those rooms------then I disagree because in one window you have piles of clothes,in the other you have clearance,but that's not the only difference. As I've already pointed out,the overall structures of the window casements are different.
They are the same room Lookout Maybe the image below helps.
Bird took pictures in the room, then left and was called back back upstairs again. During that time the rifle was removed, presumably they moved other items out of the way also, I don't really know though.
(http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=887.0;attach=4088;image)
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Firstly, I've never yet found that H. gives less than truthful information. This makes my original opinion incorrect. WHAT would be the point -under the circumstances- of claiming I'm right and he's wrong.
I think it's quite easy to be mistaken when looking at the photographs in isolation.
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Did I suggest it "fell" in a different room? Personally I think they're pictures of different rooms, unless one picture was taken of the room as they found it and the other was taken after it had been tidied................but why would they?
Cant remember exact but, I think when Bird came back off his holidays he was asked to go back to WHF? That would have been 2nd Sept. Maybe he took some more photos Jane?
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Unless you've physically been in those rooms------then I disagree because in one window you have piles of clothes,in the other you have clearance,but that's not the only difference. As I've already pointed out,the overall structures of the window casements are different.
Hello lookout
I seem to recall Hartley posted recently he had not been in WHF and he only knew the layout from the crime scene pics so he would not know the layout better than any of us not including myself because I don't know it at all :-[
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I think it's quite easy to be mistaken when looking at the photographs in isolation.
It absolutely is. One only has to look at photos taken by estate agents!!!
Cant remember exact but, I think when Bird came back off his holidays he was asked to go back to WHF? That would have been 2nd Sept. Maybe he took some more photos Jane?
Thanks for that, Justice. If that's the case, it would be an absolute given that the appearance of the room would have changed.
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I've always maintained that there were two rifles.
Lookout I seem to think others thought that too was one of the posters tyler?
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Cant remember exact but, I think when Bird came back off his holidays he was asked to go back to WHF? That would have been 2nd Sept. Maybe he took some more photos Jane?
Yes it's possible, although the plastic bag makes me think they were taken the same day.
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Yes it's possible, although the plastic bag makes me think they were taken the same day.
I do know he came back on the 2nd of Sept and the investigation had changed and at some stage he had to go back to WHF because of this, 1) Was to take soil samples, whether he took more photo's? Also what I found interesting about Bird, he only took crime scene photos, exhibit photos were done by civilians at HQ.
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I do know he came back on the 2nd of Sept and the investigation had changed and at some stage he had to go back to WHF because of this, 1) Was to take soil samples, whether he took more photo's? Also what I found interesting about Bird, he only took crime scene photos, exhibit photos were done by civilians at HQ.
Yes that's correct, I think Oakley (or Oakey?) took some of the images also.
I know there are some additional items in one image, but I wonder if the differing angles are also playing their part. :-\
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I do know he came back on the 2nd of Sept and the investigation had changed and at some stage he had to go back to WHF because of this, 1) Was to take soil samples, whether he took more photo's? Also what I found interesting about Bird, he only took crime scene photos, exhibit photos were done by civilians at HQ.
Sorry, just found part of his statement, he has been asked a question in COLP statement, if he took a photo, he goes on to say "no I didn't, the only photography I took was at the scene, the photography at headquarters is done by civilians?
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Yes that's correct, I think Oakley (or Oakey?) took some of the images also.
I know there are some additional items in one image, but I wonder if the differing angles are also playing their part. :-\
Actually look at this image, it's quite clear that the photographs were indeed taken on the same day and at some point additional items were moved on to the chairs and window cill.
(http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=887.0;attach=40863;image)
(http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=8524.0;attach=49312;image)
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Lookout I seem to think others thought that too was one of the posters tyler?
I can't even remember it being tyler Susan,but I know others worked it out that there were two. My reason for working it out years ago was the one which was pictured on Sheila's body looked " intact " and not missing a piece of its stock. Furthermore,the same rifle was never queried about it either.
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I can't even remember it being tyler Susan,but I know others worked it out that there were two. My reason for working it out years ago was the one which was pictured on Sheila's body looked " intact " and not missing a piece of its stock. Furthermore,the same rifle was never queried about it either.
Hi lookout it was tyler found the post don't know how to bring it to the forum but what she said was words to the effect "The weapon found downstairs she found a mystery ten bullets could'ent be matched to the anchutz because different sizes in bullet wounds. Why did EP want to keep a low key on this weapon. She then asks the question were two rifles used in the murders. If you want to read this from tyler is was post 106. She was a great poster wish she would come back Methinks two rifles may have been used and your point is a good one lookout.
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Actually look at this image, it's quite clear that the photographs were indeed taken on the same day and at some point additional items were moved on to the chairs and window cill.
(http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=887.0;attach=40863;image)
(http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=8524.0;attach=49312;image)
Wouldnt it be normal anyway to move items for photo's as the day progresses?
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Wouldnt it be normal anyway to move items for photo's as the day progresses?
Oh yes of course, I'm not suggesting that there is anything sinister involved.
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Oh yes of course, I'm suggesting that there is anything sinister involved.
"NOT", perhaps? ;D ;D ;D
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"NOT", perhaps? ;D ;D ;D
;D
I keep doing that. :))
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Different curtains,difference in window casements ( enclosures )
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different items on the chair?
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different items on the chair?
See this one.
(http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=887.0;attach=4095;image)
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See this one.
(http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=887.0;attach=4095;image)
yep still seeing different items on the chair
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yep still seeing different items on the chair
Sorry I thought you meant different to the image with the blacked out areas.
Yes of course the one with the rifle has a number of additional items.
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yep still seeing different items on the chair
Quite possibly. I see a tidier chair. Perhaps the photographer, having photographed the original scene in all it's chaos, wanted to show the room differently -how he thought it SHOULD look? It's very difficult to second guess someone's mind set but there are only so many explanations which fit.
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Two different rooms altogether. Who the dickens is going to start tidying up clothes etc in order to take crime scene photographs ? Lawrence Llewellyn Bowen ?
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Two different rooms altogether. Who the dickens is going to start tidying up clothes etc in order to take crime scene photographs ? Lawrence Llewellyn Bowen ?
It rather looks as if, having taken CS pictures, the room MAY have been tidied to show it from a different perspective. I don't presume to say what someone would or wouldn't have done, Lookout, because -unless I'm absolutely certain- usually I simply don't know. I content myself by saying what they MAY or may NOT have done.
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Which room is this ?
Right let's start this one . On the ? Chair? There appears to be something long with a type of frill round the bottom and then to the right there is an object that I am not sure what it is like a sort of flat item with something white in front of it?
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Right let's start this one . On the ? Chair? There appears to be something long with a type of frill round the bottom and then to the right there is an object that I am not sure what it is like a sort of flat item with something white in front of it?
And it looks to me as if that same "frilled thing" has been laid more tidily on the chair in the 'tidy' picture. Has that "flat item" found it's way tidily onto the back of the chair near the window? Are you beginning to think that the room might have been made tidier -perhaps with no more sinister intention than because they wanted it to be made tidier?
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They look like net curtains to me.
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Bit closer
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They look like net curtains to me.
Possibly, but as the house was so remote, I feel nets would have been unnecessary.
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What is this if it's the same room?
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I can see from what Hartley has posted that they do appear to be the same room but items do seem to have appeared in the photos ?
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It doesn't look to me as though the area is used as a room,just a dumping ground for all kinds of items.
Also on the windowsill too,whatever they are, look as though that's where they're kept.
I'm trying to make out whether that's a grandmother/daughter clock on the left of the picture ( probably didn't work )
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What is this if it's the same room?
Possibly a trouser press with something draped over it. I believe I saw one in one of the 'tidy' pictures.
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I can see from what Hartley has posted that they do appear to be the same room but items do seem to have appeared in the photos ?
OR disappeared after the original photos were taken?
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What is this if it's the same room?
Portable ironing top ? Backrest for bed ? Packet of linen ?
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Bit closer
That's a picture on the left,not a clock,as I can make out " heads/faces ". Another picture above it I think
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I guess this is from EP. Only shows one chair
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OR disappeared after the original photos were taken?
I did wonder but the bed cover seems to be in the same position as the crime scene photos ?
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Are we not losing sight of whatever the objective was? We appear to have got into a game of "I Spy" but naming the contents of the room changes nothing.
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Are we not losing sight of whatever the objective was? We appear to have got into a game of "I Spy" but naming the contents of the room changes nothing.
Yes I have acknowledged it does appear to be the same room and yes that does mean the court evidence could be correct . And I did raise the question if some of the pictures were from a documentary.
But is it still not prudent if you have an open mind to query anything that seems to be odd in crime scene photos?
Surely there is no harm in looking at everything ?
Is that not what we are here for ?
Well most of us anyway .
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Yes I have acknowledged it does appear to be the same room and yes that does mean the court evidence could be correct . And I did raise the question if some of the pictures were from a documentary.
But is it still not prudent if you have an open mind to query anything that seems to be odd in crime scene photos?
Surely there is no harm in looking at everything ?
Is that not what we are here for ?
Well most of us anyway .
Well, if it's "odd" which pique's the interest, may I refer you to those pictures, allegedly, according to Mike who swore it to be true, of June and Sheila post mortem, in a bedroom full of MFI wood coloured furniture, to where police had dragged them, PRIOR to them dying, so they could take pictures of them out of the master bedroom, to where they were returned to breath their last!!! Now that could be worth a second look ;D
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Well, if it's "odd" which pique's the interest, may I refer you to those pictures, allegedly, according to Mike who swore it to be true, of June and Sheila post mortem, in a bedroom full of MFI wood coloured furniture, to where police had dragged them, PRIOR to them dying, so they could take pictures of them out of the master bedroom, to where they were returned to breath their last!!! Now that could be worth a second look ;D
I have never really looked at the picture of June closely because obviously it is one of the most graphic but she was right in the doorway. Not just partly but right in it so not quite sure where she was when the picture of the rifle was taken . I am not going to post it here but it is in the archives .
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I am still wondering if one of these pictures is the documentary because even thought the parcel item looks right June's feet were at the bottom of the bed and you can not see them in the picture or the blood spots on the carpet .
So perhaps we are not looking at two crime scene photos ?
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I have never really looked at the picture of June closely because obviously it is one of the most graphic but she was right in the doorway. Not just partly but right in it so not quite sure where she was when the picture of the rifle was taken . I am not going to post it here but it is in the archives .
The pictures we were shown were NEITHER June nor Sheila. They were clearly actors badly made up and bewigged. Had you seen those pictures anywhere but this forum, you'd have had no idea who they were.
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The pictures we were shown were NEITHER June nor Sheila. They were clearly actors badly made up and bewigged. Had you seen those pictures anywhere but this forum, you'd have had no idea who they were.
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? Sorry I am not understanding you ? Are you saying the picture I am looking at in the archives is not June in the doorway?
I think it is .
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Anyway both pics do seem to be genuine crime scene photos so still can not explain the differences at the moment
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Anyway both pics do seem to be genuine crime scene photos so still can not explain the differences at the moment
Jan if they are crime scene photos nothing should be moved. Otherwise what's the point. It's all very odd isn't it
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? Sorry I am not understanding you ? Are you saying the picture I am looking at in the archives is not June in the doorway?
I think it is .
Sorry. The archive pic of June in the doorway is undoubtedly JUNE. The pictures we were shown were said to be those which police had kept secret.................it seems they forgot how the master bedroom was furnished and used actors of a similar age!!!!
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And yes it's surprising how small the room is and how little had been disturbed if Jeremy dragged Sheila in there.
So where would the objects on the chairs come from and what were they .?
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And yes it's surprising how small the room is and how little had been disturbed if Jeremy dragged Sheila in there.
So where would the objects on the chairs come from and what were they .?
Tomorrows laundry? Tomorrows laundry put on top of yesterdays washed laundry? Clothes taken off and not put away?
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Tomorrows laundry? Tomorrows laundry put on top of yesterdays washed laundry? Clothes taken off and not put away?
Yes but it is not in both pictures
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Yes but it is not in both pictures
That's coz it was tidied away ;D ;D Jan, it feels like this is starting to get to you! Take a deep breath. Pour yourself a drink or go and make supper ;D
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Full statement:
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1387.0.html
(http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1387.0.html)
I wonder how experienced she was. She retired in 2015 and says she served over 30 years.
Not really about experience though is it, she just said she thought she was what might be a rifle. The fact that they were expecting to find someone with a rifle would make anyone cautious and look out for rifle shaped objects.
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That's coz it was tidied away ;D ;D Jan, it feels like this is starting to get to you! Take a deep breath. Pour yourself a drink or go and make supper ;D
Oh yes of course the police took some photos of the crime scene then decided they had enough time to do a bit of housekeeping before they took the next photos . And move a few objects . Of course that explains why they did not get the bodies until the morgue unti 3 pm . Obvious now
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something white in front of it?
[/quote]
Ok so Jane is claiming this is the original crime scene photo which means that the main bedroom had a chair piled with odd clothes and an unidentifiable object to the right . All of this and everything on the other side of the bed did not get knocked or moved when Jeremy dragged Sheila back into the bedroom at all.
Obviously the police thought after removing the gun from the body they would have a good tidy up of just one corner and get rid of some laundry and other items before taking more crime scene pictures. Good that answered that one then .
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Oh yes of course the police took some photos of the crime scene then decided they had enough time to do a bit of housekeeping before they took the next photos . And move a few objects . Of course that explains why they did not get the bodies until the morgue unti 3 pm . Obvious now
Jan, I have NO idea. The facts are these. Photo's were taken of chaos, post murders. THEN at some point, other photos were taken of a tidied room. PERHAPS they got cleaners in. PERHAPS they asked the housekeeper. PERHAPS they asked Ann Eaton. I DON'T KNOW!! What I DO know is that it didn't happen by magic.
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something white in front of it?
Ok so Jane is claiming this is the original crime scene photo which means that the main bedroom had a chair piled with odd clothes and an unidentifiable object to the right . All of this and everything on the other side of the bed did not get knocked or moved when Jeremy dragged Sheila back into the bedroom at all.
Obviously the police thought after removing the gun from the body they would have a good tidy up of just one corner and get rid of some laundry and other items before taking more crime scene pictures. Good that answered that one then .
Can you come up with something you think is better?
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something white in front of it?
Ok so Jane is claiming this is the original crime scene photo which means that the main bedroom had a chair piled with odd clothes and an unidentifiable object to the right . All of this and everything on the other side of the bed did not get knocked or moved when Jeremy dragged Sheila back into the bedroom at all.
Obviously the police thought after removing the gun from the body they would have a good tidy up of just one corner and get rid of some laundry and other items before taking more crime scene pictures. Good that answered that one then .
Hahaha Jan glad you got that sorted :))
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Why is it complicated . The police said it was them that placed the rifle in the main bedroom window.
IF the photos are of two different rooms then that is not true is it ?
They aren't two different rooms, you can see the rifle in the window in this picture and June's hand in the bottom right hand corner.
(http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=887.0;attach=4088)
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something white in front of it?
Ok so Jane is claiming this is the original crime scene photo which means that the main bedroom had a chair piled with odd clothes and an unidentifiable object to the right . All of this and everything on the other side of the bed did not get knocked or moved when Jeremy dragged Sheila back into the bedroom at all.
Obviously the police thought after removing the gun from the body they would have a good tidy up of just one corner and get rid of some laundry and other items before taking more crime scene pictures. Good that answered that one then .
No, but they may have removed the quilt and other items from the floor in order to look for casings etc.
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They aren't two different rooms, you can see the rifle in the window in this picture and June's hand in the bottom right hand corner.
(http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=887.0;attach=4088)
You missed a few posts . Were you tidying up as well?
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No, but they may have removed the quilt and other items from the floor in order to look for casings etc.
It's not the quilt form the bed or floor . The bed one is still in situ in the second picture and the one on the floor is red and covered in blood
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It's not the quilt form the bed or floor . The bed one is still in situ in the second picture and the one on the floor is red and covered in blood
They would have moved things around while searching the house, I don't have an inventory about what they moved where. But thing would have been moved - it just stands to reason.
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Yes that will be it . Accurate crime scene photos are not important after all .
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Yes that will be it . Accurate crime scene photos are not important after all .
Perhaps you could point out to them their error?
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I for one would be glad to.
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Yes that will be it . Accurate crime scene photos are not important after all .
What isn't accurate?
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It's like Groundhog Day on here .
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It's like Groundhog Day on here .
And you're contributing to it beautifully.
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And you're contributing to it beautifully.
Thats why I don't post sometimes Jane, you can see what's coming, if you post and not agreeing you get accused of plotting and hounding ???
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It's like Groundhog Day on here .
You have to take the rough with the smooth. So is life..
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You have to take the rough with the smooth. So is life..
True Steve, great video you put up never laughed so much cheers
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Thats why I don't post sometimes Jane, you can see what's coming, if you post and not agreeing you get accused of plotting and hounding ???
I wasn't even here when it kicked off.It still goes on in my absence.It's an unnatural aversion to supporters .
I'm ignoring it in case I come out with a mouthful.
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You have to take the rough with the smooth. So is life..
Yes I know .
And Groundhog Day is actually one of my favourite films😁
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They aren't two different rooms, you can see the rifle in the window in this picture and June's hand in the bottom right hand corner.
(http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=887.0;attach=4088)
Caroline is that really a hand it looks like the heel of a trainer or shoe to me.?
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Hi notsure,first glance it does look like the heel of a trainer,but using my magnifier it resembles a small jug if you're looking head-on you can make out the pouring end----also it has a sheen.
If it is an ornamental jug it could have been on the window sill,then swiped off while putting the rifle there.There seemed to have been all kinds of jumble in that room. Disorganised like the minds of the women. Kitchen/pantry was the same.
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I have concluded that there must be some crime scene on the day photos and some crime scene not on the day photos mixed up in the archives although the fact that the white and green parcel is in both ( on The side where Sheila is) is very confusing .
With reference to this photo the black bit is supposed to be where a casing was found and then on the right in the doorway would be June .
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Can someone explain this photo?
This does look like a genuine crime scene photo ( blood on pillow, teddies etc)
1) the chair and what is on the chair does not look the same as the other angle
2) right in the area where the police said shots could be fired from , very neatly on the corner of the rug is a pair of shoes? How come these were not rptripped over or moved in all the commotion ?
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Oh heck. Comparing the pic of where June was lying,it doesn't even look like the same room as there isn't a wardrobe/cupboard at the back of the door.
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Yes there is I have seen it in another photo ? Gosh this is driving me nuts
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Can someone explain this photo?
This does look like a genuine crime scene photo ( blood on pillow, teddies etc)
1) the chair and what is on the chair does not look the same as the other angle
2) right in the area where the police said shots could be fired from , very neatly on the corner of the rug is a pair of shoes? How come these were not rptripped over or moved in all the commotion ?
It is a genuine CS picture.
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I'm trying to picture it from a different angle but I can't think straight >:(
Again,compared to another bed ?? there doesn't appear to be as much blood either on the pillow or that part of the bedclothes that have been disturbed. One bed showed quite a patch of blood on the bottom sheet-------but not this one photographed.
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Oh heck. Comparing the pic of where June was lying,it doesn't even look like the same room as there isn't a wardrobe/cupboard at the back of the door.
What's that big brown thing behind the door lookout? ;D ;D ;D ;D
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What's that big brown thing behind the door lookout? ;D ;D ;D ;D
I mentioned that a couple of posts ago.
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I mentioned that a couple of posts ago.
Yes, I know, it's the wardrobe!
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Yes there is I have seen it in another photo ? Gosh this is driving me nuts
Not sure what the problem is?
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Not sure what the problem is?
It's not a problem. But expand the picture and look at the shoes neatly plalced in the corner of the room in the area where shots are supposed to have been fired from ( according to the police not me). And the chair and the objects on it compared with the other crime scene of the same room. Where the rifle is in the window.
Like I say not a problem I am just curious .
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It's not a problem. But expand the picture and look at the shoes neatly plalced in the corner of the room in the area where shots are supposed to have been fired from ( according to the police not me). And the chair and the objects on it compared with the other crime scene of the same room. Where the rifle is in the window.
Like I say not a problem I am just curious .
You can see the shoes in other shots. Maybe the killer placed them there and a curio?
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You can see the shoes in other shots. Maybe the killer placed them there and a curio?
Yes that explains it . Thanks
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In another pic,the bedclothes are turned back the other side. Considering that June received shots while she was in bed,there's hardly any blood to show for it.
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In another pic,the bedclothes are turned back the other side. Considering that June received shots while she was in bed,there's hardly any blood to show for it.
There are definitely documentary shots on the forum so you have to double check the photos .
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There are definitely documentary shots on the forum so you have to double check the photos .
Yes there are, but some of them used right CS photographs.
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Does anyone know if the gun was put in the window before ,during, or after crime scene photos?
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Before.
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Does anyone know if the gun was put in the window before ,during, or after crime scene photos?
During
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During
After ?
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If only the sequence numbers of the photos were relevant? >:(
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After ?
As it is one of the CS photographs it had to be taken 'during'.
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As it is one of the CS photographs it had to be taken 'during'.
As obviously I did not explain myself clearly enough . Was it moved after all the last photos of June and Sheila?
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As obviously I did not explain myself clearly enough . Was it moved after all the last photos of June and Sheila?
Not sure if it was moved after all photo's of June, but Cook said he removed it 'after' the pictures of Sheila were complete.
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Not sure if it was moved after all photo's of June, but Cook said he removed it 'after' the pictures of Sheila were complete.
Just been doing a bit of reading and apparently there are varying reports of the time when the rifle was moved . Can't find the statement from Montgomery at the moment to confirm .
It was photo 23. But apparently taken after photos 26 to 30 .
That makes sense. Not .
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Just been doing a bit of reading and apparently there are varying reports of the time when the rifle was moved . Can't find the statement from Montgomery at the moment to confirm .
It was photo 23. But apparently taken after photos 26 to 30 .
That makes sense. Not .
;D
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The absolute truth in this matter, is as follows..
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The absolute truth in this matter, is as follows..
In the vast majority of cases, you cannot trust police officers, they are literally criminals in uniform!
You cannot trust the CPS, they have license to fabricate and conspire against any defendant who is unfortunate enough to stand trial!, Without fear of ever being prosecuted for the Lies they tell, and promote!
You cannot trust in general, the Magistrates court system, it is there not to protect the public at large, but the criminals who operate within its system, including the police and the local CPS...
You cannot trust in general, the Crown Court system, because any defendant who stands trial is at an immediate disadvantage, guilty until proven innocent! If you are such a defendant and you fall into a particular category, the system works against justice, it favours the criminals in uniform, it's witnesses, the magistrates who sent the case for whatever reason to the crown court from the magistrates court, and they believe all the lies spouted by the CPS who are criminals in their own right, who cannot be prosecuted for telling lies, and generally fabricating evidence on a huge scale!
There is no such thing as 'a fair trial'. The prosecuting authorities will believe everything it's witnesses are prepared to say, even if it's a damn right lie!
The media, sensationalise the lies promoted by cops, the CPS, and reinforced by corrupt magistrate decisions, and the Crown court system!
All defendants should be tried not by brainwashed jurors, but by defendants convicted of offences which are similar to those a defendant stands accused of! In general, ordinary members of the public do not have a clue about what really goes on, involving the criminals in uniform, and the system which seeks to promote injustice!
Criminals in uniform hardly ever get prosecuted, even when there is an abundance of evidence available (all true) capable of convicting these low life public servants! If the truth be known, the extent of their dishonesty the greater it is, serves to work in their favour, they quite often get promoted, and receive dishonest pension rights!
Don't ever ask a police officer the time of day, its response might be affected by factors irrelevant to you - these criminals in uniform can make the time of day or night, anything they want or need it to be!
Cops are vicious thugs, they love inflicting violence on vulnerable suspects, they beat people, they kill people in custody, these low life scumbag criminals in uniform are absolutely and totally despicable! They lie, they fabricate, they role play, they are the spawn of the devil..
You cannot always trust or believe anything a cop / prosecution witness might say - this is because the witnesses themselves may not even make their own witness statements, crooked dishonest cops decide what goes into a witnesses witness statement!
You simply cannot rely upon, or trust, anything a criminal in uniform does, or says, or how they manipulate a prosecution witnesses statement which is invariably paraphrased by one of these crooked criminalised cops in uniform!
These criminals, the entire lot of them, think they are better than ordinary folk, but they are low life criminals in uniform and office!
I will now give the correct interpretation of what happened in the case of photographs taken inside the main bedroom at whf...
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my specific questions are this
in the two pictures that we have established are CS photos
1) in the view from the stairs and the view from the room the chair / chairs on the side where june was found look different and have different items on them
2) if the view from the stairs with the rifle was taken after all the other photos of june and Sheila why is it photo 23 where as their photos are photo 26 on wards
3) right in the area where shots are supposed to have been fired from there is a neatly placed pair of shoes ? how come they were not disturbed in the shooting ?
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I'll give this a miss Jan as I remain convinced that they're two different rooms.
A piled-up heap of items can't suddenly disappear,nor can the curtains suddenly change colour and length.
Window casements in both rooms are different,as is the height from skirting board to window-sill.
Where the gun was spotted is a different room to where Sheila and June were found.
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I'll give this a miss Jan as I remain convinced that they're two different rooms.
A piled-up heap of items can't suddenly disappear,nor can the curtains suddenly change colour and length.
Window casements in both rooms are different,as is the height from skirting board to window-sill.
Where the gun was spotted is a different room to where Sheila and June were found.
No They are not different rooms . They are the same room .
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No They are not different rooms . They are the same room .
There's a window with nothing on the sill at all and gives a clearer picture of the difference between the two.
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Can someone explain this photo?
This does look like a genuine crime scene photo ( blood on pillow, teddies etc)
1) the chair and what is on the chair does not look the same as the other angle
2) right in the area where the police said shots could be fired from , very neatly on the corner of the rug is a pair of shoes? How come these were not rptripped over or moved in all the commotion ?
lookout if you open this picture on your computer you will see the staircase where the other picture is taken from
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They are the same room Lookout Maybe the image below helps.
Bird took pictures in the room, then left and was called back back upstairs again. During that time the rifle was removed, presumably they moved other items out of the way also, I don't really know though.
(http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=887.0;attach=4088;image)
in this one is the staircase
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sorry open picture in post 155
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It has to be the same room doesn't it ? Yet my mind veers to a different window altogether and I don't know why.
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Then of course if the object in the window is the rifle,then the bedroom would be the place,obviously,as that's where it was eventually found after its last " use ".
Sheila was right in her calculations/notes,that police would be there. This is what she must have envisaged before taking her own life.
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It has to be the same room doesn't it ? Yet my mind veers to a different window altogether and I don't know why.
Still does not answer the questions though .
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Still does not answer the questions though .
No it doesn't. There are all kinds of uncertainties.
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There is hope yet murderer convicted after the wrong man had been in jail for 40 years! And it shows what lengths the police would go to even to get the wrong man😤
The jury heard Hough was 16 when he attacked Janet, who was choked as she was repeatedly and violently raped.
But within days police had arrested Mr Jones, who was 18 at the time and an illiterate scrap dealer from the gypsy community. He eventually pleaded guilty to manslaughter and was jailed for 12 years.
Mr Jones told Hough's trial that he had been browbeaten and "coerced" into making a false confession by detectives conducting the investigation, which took place in the years before the landmark 1984 Police and Criminal Evidence Act when police interviews were not tape-recorded and access to solicitors for suspects was often denied.
The Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC) has launched an investigation into the conduct of North Wales Police over the matter.
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Those kind of convictions seemed commonplace in the days before DNA and computerized technology.
When you compare how investigations were carried out then and how it's done now,it fills you with horror that the world and his wife were allowed to tread all around a place after a mass murder had been committed. No way would that ever be allowed now. It was never treated as a murder scene.
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Then of course if the object in the window is the rifle,then the bedroom would be the place,obviously,as that's where it was eventually found after its last " use ".
Sheila was right in her calculations/notes,that police would be there. This is what she must have envisaged before taking her own life.
I just wonder whether she was in a fit state to write anything. When and where did she write the note? What happened to the pen? Why were there no traces of blood in her room if she had killed everyone and written the note there?
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I just wonder whether she was in a fit state to write anything. When and where did she write the note? What happened to the pen? Why were there no traces of blood in her room if she had killed everyone and written the note there?
I think you're correct, Steve. The so called suicide note looks to me like the sort of thing someone might write to give a reader the impression that it had been written by someone who was psychotic. Like the murders and the scene setting, it was over exaggerated.
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I just wonder whether she was in a fit state to write anything. When and where did she write the note? What happened to the pen? Why were there no traces of blood in her room if she had killed everyone and written the note there?
Of course Sheila was capable of writing,though latterly her words would be jumbled as her mind had been.
Why Sheila has been made out to be this shy,timid,incapable ditsy person I don't know ?
Sheila was a prolific writer who preferred to communicate that way rather than speak her mind,or what she was thinking at the time. Drawing/painting her feelings was also something else that she did too as one of her drawings scared Colin when he first saw it because it depicted herself in the guise of Klimt's " scream " which is how she'd felt.
The notes could have been written in her bedroom-------when her hands were clean,but she'd appeared to have known what to write at the time to coincide with what went on.
There was no blood in her bedroom because it was the only room which wasn't involved in the killing of anyone.
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Of course Sheila was capable of writing,though latterly her words would be jumbled as her mind had been.
Why Sheila has been made out to be this shy,timid,incapable ditsy person I don't know ?
Sheila was a prolific writer who preferred to communicate that way rather than speak her mind,or what she was thinking at the time. Drawing/painting her feelings was also something else that she did too as one of her drawings scared Colin when he first saw it because it depicted herself in the guise of Klimt's " scream " which is how she'd felt.
The notes could have been written in her bedroom-------when her hands were clean,but she'd appeared to have known what to write at the time to coincide with what went on.
There was no blood in her bedroom because it was the only room which wasn't involved in the killing of anyone.
Sorry Lookout, I wasn't aware you knew Sheila that well? ::)
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Sorry Lookout, I wasn't aware you knew Sheila that well? ::)
Actually it was Colin !!
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Of course Sheila was capable of writing,though latterly her words would be jumbled as her mind had been.
Why Sheila has been made out to be this shy,timid,incapable ditsy person I don't know ?
Sheila was a prolific writer who preferred to communicate that way rather than speak her mind,or what she was thinking at the time. Drawing/painting her feelings was also something else that she did too as one of her drawings scared Colin when he first saw it because it depicted herself in the guise of Klimt's " scream " which is how she'd felt.
The notes could have been written in her bedroom-------when her hands were clean,but she'd appeared to have known what to write at the time to coincide with what went on.
There was no blood in her bedroom because it was the only room which wasn't involved in the killing of anyone.
Perhaps you could provide us with something of her "prolific" writing.
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Back to the thread . If anyone has seen a statement by Montgomery about when the rifle was taken off the body then please let me know . Thanks
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Perhaps you could provide us with something of her "prolific" writing.
Colin's book will tell you that. He says that Sheila found it easier to write down her feelings,etc rather than speak them.Other than that,ask the CT to provide you with the proof.
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Colin's book will tell you that. He says that Sheila found it easier to write down her feelings,etc rather than speak them.Other than that,ask the CT to provide you with the proof.
That may be, but perhaps "prolific" is stretching it a little, especially since she and Colin hadn't lived together for numerous years so he'd have been unlikely to have known what was her daily routine.
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Back to the thread . If anyone has seen a statement by Montgomery about when the rifle was taken off the body then please let me know . Thanks
Mike has written on the forum about this somewhere.
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Actually it was Colin !!
What? You knew Colin well? ???
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I've moved this particular discussion to another thread so as not to fall foul of the regulations.
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There was no suicide note. Written by either Bamber or Sheila.
Bamber didn't have time to write one after the massacre. He wouldn't risk writing one beforehand as he would have to replicate her handwriting.
He would have written a more obvious, shorter suicide note & put it next to the bible. He certainly wouldn't write one pages long & then leave it in another foom.
The OS has suggested a suicide note was in the bible Bamber left by Sheila. Although have since asked for money to pay experts go through the notes found in Sheila's bedroom. No feedback has been supplied by the OS on these notes.
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As Lookout said Sheila's words were 'jumbled as her mind had been'. However she was certainly fully focused at 3am when shooting 5 people in the head.
Her notes are sadly just almost unreadable ramblings that only she could relate to. There is no suggestion of murder or suicide in them, otherwise this would have been annonced by the CT.
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There was no suicide note. Written by either Bamber or Sheila.
Bamber didn't have time to write one after the massacre. He wouldn't risk writing one beforehand as he would have to replicate her handwriting.
He would have written a more obvious, shorter suicide note & put it next to the bible. He certainly wouldn't write one pages long & then leave it in another foom.
The OS has suggested a suicide note was in the bible Bamber left by Sheila. Although have since asked for money to pay experts go through the notes found in Sheila's bedroom. No feedback has been supplied by the OS on these notes.
suicide note and writing comments moved to another thread Adam
thank you
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I think you're correct, Steve. The so called suicide note looks to me like the sort of thing someone might write to give a reader the impression that it had been written by someone who was psychotic. Like the murders and the scene setting, it was over exaggerated.
They must have done a brilliant job ::)
(https://s29.postimg.org/tlil22amf/writing2.jpg)
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They must have done a brilliant job ::)
(https://s29.postimg.org/tlil22amf/writing2.jpg)
Why? They look nothing alike. ::)
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They must have done a brilliant job ::)
(https://s29.postimg.org/tlil22amf/writing2.jpg)
I haven't a clue what you're trying to say here, but noting that you say truth is incontrovertible, I can only think truth had gone out for the day if you're implying that the same hand was used.
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Whether the note is genuine or not does not automatically make her the murderer anyway.
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Whether the note is genuine or not does not automatically make her the murderer anyway.
No, it doesn't, however, although there re a few similarities with some of the letters, there are more differences.
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No, it doesn't, however, although there re a few similarities with some of the letters, there are more differences.
It would be odd, indeed, with so many letters, NOT to find one or two similarities, but even where the letters ARE similar, some of the words are slanting in opposite directions.
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It would be odd, indeed, with so many letters, NOT to find one or two similarities, but even where the letters ARE similar, some of the words are slanting in opposite directions.
The right had side uses loops and curls on letter such as Y and L - the left side does not.
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The right had side uses loops and curls on letter such as Y and L - the left side does not.
Yes. Overall, the right side has a much more rounded form than the left side.
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I think that there were posts before which showed how someone's handwriting changed during a psychotic episode . There would be differences but similarities as well . It would be a difficult thing to prove but not impossible. Like I said the handwritten diaries could help a lot because they would have presumably be written when she was going through different phases of her illness and could show changes in her handwriting. Personally I think it is obvious they are a vital piece of evidence . Shame they have been "lost"
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Here is just one paper on the subject so I think Davids point deserves attention
http://ijmds.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/1075-1078-CR-handwriting.pdf
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In the vast majority of cases, you cannot trust police officers, they are literally criminals in uniform!
You cannot trust the CPS, they have license to fabricate and conspire against any defendant who is unfortunate enough to stand trial!, Without fear of ever being prosecuted for the Lies they tell, and promote!
You cannot trust in general, the Magistrates court system, it is there not to protect the public at large, but the criminals who operate within its system, including the police and the local CPS...
You cannot trust in general, the Crown Court system, because any defendant who stands trial is at an immediate disadvantage, guilty until proven innocent! If you are such a defendant and you fall into a particular category, the system works against justice, it favours the criminals in uniform, it's witnesses, the magistrates who sent the case for whatever reason to the crown court from the magistrates court, and they believe all the lies spouted by the CPS who are criminals in their own right, who cannot be prosecuted for telling lies, and generally fabricating evidence on a huge scale!
There is no such thing as 'a fair trial'. The prosecuting authorities will believe everything it's witnesses are prepared to say, even if it's a damn right lie!
The media, sensationalise the lies promoted by cops, the CPS, and reinforced by corrupt magistrate decisions, and the Crown court system!
All defendants should be tried not by brainwashed jurors, but by defendants convicted of offences which are similar to those a defendant stands accused of! In general, ordinary members of the public do not have a clue about what really goes on, involving the criminals in uniform, and the system which seeks to promote injustice!
Criminals in uniform hardly ever get prosecuted, even when there is an abundance of evidence available (all true) capable of convicting these low life public servants! If the truth be known, the extent of their dishonesty the greater it is, serves to work in their favour, they quite often get promoted, and receive dishonest pension rights!
Don't ever ask a police officer the time of day, its response might be affected by factors irrelevant to you - these criminals in uniform can make the time of day or night, anything they want or need it to be!
Cops are vicious thugs, they love inflicting violence on vulnerable suspects, they beat people, they kill people in custody, these low life scumbag criminals in uniform are absolutely and totally despicable! They lie, they fabricate, they role play, they are the spawn of the devil..
You cannot always trust or believe anything a cop / prosecution witness might say - this is because the witnesses themselves may not even make their own witness statements, crooked dishonest cops decide what goes into a witnesses witness statement!
You simply cannot rely upon, or trust, anything a criminal in uniform does, or says, or how they manipulate a prosecution witnesses statement which is invariably paraphrased by one of these crooked criminalised cops in uniform!
These criminals, the entire lot of them, think they are better than ordinary folk, but they are low life criminals in uniform and office!
I will now give the correct interpretation of what happened in the case of photographs taken inside the main bedroom at whf...
There were two teams of SOCO operating inside the farmhouse on the first morning of tragedy! The first team took photographs during an hour long period between 9am, and 10am. DC Oakey and another SOCO, whilst senior officers performed 'informatives' with the bodies of June Bamber, and Sheila Caffell in the main bedroom. At this time, items of furniture, clothing, the bed quilt, the rifle were all moved, taken out of the bedroom scene by the cops themselves, or as in the case of the rifle from the box room window, it was brought into the main bedroom, and placed at the main bedroom window, and on Sheila Caffells body at various times within this hour long period, so that by the time the second team of SOCO took control of the farmhouse at 10am, (Cook, Bird, Davidson, and Hammersley) the position of the two bodies (June and Sheila) had already been set by senior officers involved in the aforementioned practice of 'informatives'. Except for three photographs, and the original crime scene video, which surfaced several years ago, the rest of the crime scene photographs taken by DC Oakey (SOCO), and others, have remained withheld by Essex police and their cousins in corruption the CPS under the dishonest guise of 'public interest immunity'! This gives the false impression that cops and CPS have for over three decades been protecting the public from viewing gruesome images of victims, when if the truth be known the real reason cops and CPS have sought to withhold around 355 of the 581 photographs which were taken, is because these missing photographs which these official criminals in uniform and public office know that simply disclosing one of these such photographs will prove emphatically that the police shot Sheila Caffell dead inside the main bedroom by use of the anshuzt rifle which from around 7.15am had been placed at the first floor box room window and brought to Sheila's body in the main bedroom at a time (9.12am) when her body was laid on top of the bed, and she only having sustained or receive one shot to the neck by that stage! I have physically had possession of one such photograph, and been shown two others which show a solitary bullet hole in her neck, not two. DC Oakey took the photographs of Sheila's body laid on top of the bed when she had only been shot once! The rifle is not with her body when her body was photographed on the bed sporting a single bullet wound! The anshuzt rifle was brought from the box room to the main bedroom at 9am when senior officers set about performing 'informatives', with a view to finding an alternative explanation for the shooting of Sheila downstairs in the kitchen by a cop weapon! At 8.44am when the police surgeon, Dr Craig, pronounced Sheila dead, her body being on the far side of the bed with a rifle alongside her body, the weapon in question was the police rifle which had discharged the first shot across Sheila's neck! DC Oakley (SOCO), and DC Henderson (SOCO) took photographs of Sheila's body on top of the bed sporting only one shot to the neck, both with and without the police gun she had been shot with near her body! It is worth noting that none of the police or the police surgeon describe or identify the weapon with Sheila's body on the far side of the bed at 8.44am! This leaves it open for the police and their criminal cousins the CPS to suggest and imply that the weapon in question had been the anshuzt rifle which everyone now knows was resting at a different window in the box room at 8.44am, and this deception has been successfully carried off by a reliance upon PC Birds (SOCO) crime scene photographs which he took from 10am, onwards which shows Sheila's body in possession of that anshuzt rifle, and sporting two bullet wounds to her neck and her body no longer on top of the bed, but it had been lifted from the bed onto the bedroom floor so that 'informatives' could be carried out by senior officers! The earlier photographs taken by DC Oakey (SOCO), and DC Henderson (SOCO) which show a weapon alongside Sheila's body on the far side of the bed confirm that Sheila had only been shot once by that stage, and it is the police weapon which discharged that single bullet to her neck which was photographed in her possession, until at 9.12 am the anshuzt rifle was brought into the main bedroom from its original resting position against the box room window, and placed on Sheila's body as part of the 'informatives' being conducted by senior officers! At precisely 9.13 am whilst cops were in the process of gauging the muzzle of the anshuzt rifle against the trigger mechanism with this rifle on Sheila's body by arranging her hands and fingers, that the fatal shot under the point of Sheila's chin got discharged! Carelessly, no-one had bothered to check to see whether or not the anshuzt rifle was still loaded with live ammunition. As it turned out, this rifle had a live round in its breach! DC Oakey (SOCO) took at least one other photograph of Sheila after 9.13am which shows the barrel of the anshuzt rifle resting against the left hand side of her neck (photo' no. 26). This particular photograph was taken before 10 am! The other disclosed photographs identified by photographic numbers, 25, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32 and 33 were taken by PC Bird (SOCO) after 10 am! Photograph 23 was taken before 10 am, and therefore not taken by PC Bird (albeit he claims he took it once it came to light during the October 1986 Cheltenham Crown court trial)! But, he didn't take it! He has lied about this because he realised the other SOCO team (DC Oakey and DC Henderson) had taken it and other photographs inside the main bedroom, or looking through the main bedroom door and showing the anshuzt rifle resting against the main bedroom window, at some stage between 9.13am and 10 am, before PC Bird (SOCO) had even set foot into the farmhouse and started taking any of his own photographs! The extra garments and equipment visible in photograph 23 (taken by DC Oakey/ DC Henderson) which by contrast is totally absent in photographs taken by PC Bird (SOCO) inside the main bedroom, highlights the extent the the main bedroom scene was tampered with, and stage managed by police prior to 10 am and the introduction of the second team of SOCO (Cook, Bird, Davidson and Hammersley) to record the scene in its dishonest state after 10am, on the pretense that what was being photographed after 10 am, was a totally undisturbed crime scene, when it actual fact it was a police inspired staged crime scene!
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Here is just one paper on the subject so I think Davids point deserves attention
http://ijmds.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/1075-1078-CR-handwriting.pdf
Interesting and also feasible regarding Sheila's state of mind.
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The extra garments, items on the chair in this photograph, were absent once PC Bird (SOCO) started Photographing the scene in the main bedroom after 10 am...
This can be proved by reference to other crime scene photographs taken by PC Bird (SOCO) inside the main bedroom after 10 am by which time all of this evidence had disappeared once cops beforehand had set the stage for the main bedroom to be dishonestly presented as untouched until after PC Bird (SOCO) finished taking his pictures!
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This conspiracy involving the cops staging the crime scene inside the main bedroom and elsewhere in the farmhouse, went much further than getting PC Bird to photograph the main bedroom scene once the bodies of June and Sheila had been staged by the cops themselves in order to present the false case that the main bedroom and everything in it had remained undisturbed from it being discovered by 8.10am - PC Bird was tasked by senior officers to create false photographic schedules which served to disguise the existence of 358 photographs altogether! Many if not all of these photographs capable of confirming (a) that Sheila was fatally shot under the point of her chin after DC Oakey (SOCO) had photographed Sheila's body laid on top of the bed sporting only a single bullet wound to her neck! The police surgeon, Dr Craig, had already pronounced Sheila as being dead at 8.44am with what he said appeared to be a single bullet hole to her neck! Craig did not carry out any physical examination of Sheila's body at this stage! He was able to say that she was dead at this time, simply by giving the body a casual glancing look! Later with the arrival of DS Jones and DC Clark into the bedroom scene, they would both tell Ann Eaton later that the bodies of June and Sheila were found on top of the bed in the main bedroom, with a rifle on the bed between both bodies, and a bible on Sheila's chest! They would tell Ann Eaton that Sheila had been shot only once! What this tells us, is that Sheila had not yet received the second fatal shot under the point of the chin, until after Jones and Clark left the main bedroom scene...
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The original photographic albums containing all 581 photographs associated with the investigation, was known by the title 'THE SENIOR INVESTIGATING OFFICERS, ALBUM'. This was kept under lock and key inside a safe in ACC Peter Simpsons Office..
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The original photographic albums containing all 581 photographs associated with the investigation, was known by the title 'THE SENIOR INVESTIGATING OFFICERS, ALBUM'. This was kept under lock and key inside a safe in ACC Peter Simpsons Office..
As part of the cover up, PC Bird (SOCO) was tasked with creating a dishonest photographic schedule, consisting of only 223 photographs, which he named, 'THE MASTER COPY ALBUM'. The 223 photographs were numbered consecutively and deliberately presented as though all of them had been taken in sequence, one after the other, from 1 to 223! But it was and is a wicked lie! A lie designed to try and conceal the truth surrounding the shooting of Sheila Caffell by the police! Clearly, the 223 photographs listed in PC Birds (SOCO) ' THE MASTER COPY, ALBUM' had not all been taken in sequence..
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PC Bird (SOCO) went further in his attempt to deceive Bamber, his legal team, the court which tried the matter, and the public at large! He was tasked to produce a further schedule, consisting of only 50 photographs, which was called, 'THE COURT ALBUM'. As part of this deception he produced a typed schedule showing the order and sequence with which the 50 'THE COURT ALBUM' photographs had been taken set against the sequence of 223 Photographs in his falsified 'THE MASTER COPY, ALBUM'..
You can tell that the items listed in 'THE MASTER COPY, ALBUM' are not listed in the sequence the 223 or more photographs were taken by reference to the dates provided in the left column against particular photo's..
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Not surprisingly, no schedule for the 581 photographs entitled, 'THE SENIOR INVESTIGATING OFFICERS ALBUM', has ever been produced!
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PC Bird (SOCO) went further in his attempt to deceive Bamber, his legal team, the court which tried the matter, and the public at large! He was tasked to produce a further schedule, consisting of only 50 photographs, which was called, 'THE COURT ALBUM'. As part of this deception he produced a typed schedule showing the order and sequence with which the 50 'THE COURT ALBUM' photographs had been taken set against the sequence of 223 Photographs in his falsified 'THE MASTER COPY, ALBUM'..
You can tell that the items listed in 'THE MASTER COPY, ALBUM' are not listed in the sequence the 223 or more photographs were taken by reference to the dates provided in the left column against particular photo's..
I am not sure. That is correct because in court bird said photo 23 was taken after photos 27 to 30 ?
It's a mess .
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There were two teams of SOCO operating inside the farmhouse on the first morning of tragedy! The first team took photographs during an hour long period between 9am, and 10am. DC Oakey and another SOCO, whilst senior officers performed 'informatives' with the bodies of June Bamber, and Sheila Caffell in the main bedroom. At this time, items of furniture, clothing, the bed quilt, the rifle were all moved, taken out of the bedroom scene by the cops themselves, or as in the case of the rifle from the box room window, it was brought into the main bedroom, and placed at the main bedroom window, and on Sheila Caffells body at various times within this hour long period, so that by the time the second team of SOCO took control of the farmhouse at 10am, (Cook, Bird, Davidson, and Hammersley) the position of the two bodies (June and Sheila) had already been set by senior officers involved in the aforementioned practice of 'informatives'. Except for three photographs, and the original crime scene video, which surfaced several years ago, the rest of the crime scene photographs taken by DC Oakey (SOCO), and others, have remained withheld by Essex police and their cousins in corruption the CPS under the dishonest guise of 'public interest immunity'! This gives the false impression that cops and CPS have for over three decades been protecting the public from viewing gruesome images of victims, when if the truth be known the real reason cops and CPS have sought to withhold around 355 of the 581 photographs which were taken, is because these missing photographs which these official criminals in uniform and public office know that simply disclosing one of these such photographs will prove emphatically that the police shot Sheila Caffell dead inside the main bedroom by use of the anshuzt rifle which from around 7.15am had been placed at the first floor box room window and brought to Sheila's body in the main bedroom at a time (9.12am) when her body was laid on top of the bed, and she only having sustained or receive one shot to the neck by that stage! I have physically had possession of one such photograph, and been shown two others which show a solitary bullet hole in her neck, not two. DC Oakey took the photographs of Sheila's body laid on top of the bed when she had only been shot once! The rifle is not with her body when her body was photographed on the bed sporting a single bullet wound! The anshuzt rifle was brought from the box room to the main bedroom at 9am when senior officers set about performing 'informatives', with a view to finding an alternative explanation for the shooting of Sheila downstairs in the kitchen by a cop weapon! At 8.44am when the police surgeon, Dr Craig, pronounced Sheila dead, her body being on the far side of the bed with a rifle alongside her body, the weapon in question was the police rifle which had discharged the first shot across Sheila's neck! DC Oakley (SOCO), and DC Henderson (SOCO) took photographs of Sheila's body on top of the bed sporting only one shot to the neck, both with and without the police gun she had been shot with near her body! It is worth noting that none of the police or the police surgeon describe or identify the weapon with Sheila's body on the far side of the bed at 8.44am! This leaves it open for the police and their criminal cousins the CPS to suggest and imply that the weapon in question had been the anshuzt rifle which everyone now knows was resting at a different window in the box room at 8.44am, and this deception has been successfully carried off by a reliance upon PC Birds (SOCO) crime scene photographs which he took from 10am, onwards which shows Sheila's body in possession of that anshuzt rifle, and sporting two bullet wounds to her neck and her body no longer on top of the bed, but it had been lifted from the bed onto the bedroom floor so that 'informatives' could be carried out by senior officers! The earlier photographs taken by DC Oakey (SOCO), and DC Henderson (SOCO) which show a weapon alongside Sheila's body on the far side of the bed confirm that Sheila had only been shot once by that stage, and it is the police weapon which discharged that single bullet to her neck which was photographed in her possession, until at 9.12 am the anshuzt rifle was brought into the main bedroom from its original resting position against the box room window, and placed on Sheila's body as part of the 'informatives' being conducted by senior officers! At precisely 9.13 am whilst cops were in the process of gauging the muzzle of the anshuzt rifle against the trigger mechanism with this rifle on Sheila's body by arranging her hands and fingers, that the fatal shot under the point of Sheila's chin got discharged! Carelessly, no-one had bothered to check to see whether or not the anshuzt rifle was still loaded with live ammunition. As it turned out, this rifle had a live round in its breach! DC Oakey (SOCO) took at least one other photograph of Sheila after 9.13am which shows the barrel of the anshuzt rifle resting against the left hand side of her neck (photo' no. 26). This particular photograph was taken before 10 am! The other disclosed photographs identified by photographic numbers, 25, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32 and 33 were taken by PC Bird (SOCO) after 10 am! Photograph 23 was taken before 10 am, and therefore not taken by PC Bird (albeit he claims he took it once it came to light during the October 1986 Cheltenham Crown court trial)! But, he didn't take it! He has lied about this because he realised the other SOCO team (DC Oakey and DC Henderson) had taken it and other photographs inside the main bedroom, or looking through the main bedroom door and showing the anshuzt rifle resting against the main bedroom window, at some stage between 9.13am and 10 am, before PC Bird (SOCO) had even set foot into the farmhouse and started taking any of his own photographs! The extra garments and equipment visible in photograph 23 (taken by DC Oakey/ DC Henderson) which by contrast is totally absent in photographs taken by PC Bird (SOCO) inside the main bedroom, highlights the extent the the main bedroom scene was tampered with, and stage managed by police prior to 10 am and the introduction of the second team of SOCO (Cook, Bird, Davidson and Hammersley) to record the scene in its dishonest state after 10am, on the pretense that what was being photographed after 10 am, was a totally undisturbed crime scene, when it actual fact it was a police inspired staged crime scene!
I am trying to take this all in . Because there are some obvious differences in the crime scene photos in the main bedroom because of the chair/ chairs and what Is on the chairs.
Also how can a neatly placed pair of shoes be in the area where the police established the shots would be fired from?
Mike can you tell me if the prosecution had to establish how Jeremy would have shot Sheila to get the shots to be at the angles established?.
And why are there no statements from Montgomery?
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I am not sure. That is correct because in court bird said photo 23 was taken after photos 27 to 30 ?
It's a mess .
Yes, PC Bird (SOCO), and DI 'Ron' Cook (SOCO) were both members of the second SOC team which set out to deceive everybody into believing and accepting that they photographed the main bedroom scene in its undisturbed state after 10 am, but the absolute truth was / is that by the time the second team of SOCO started to take photographs in the main bedroom after 10 am, the bodies of June and Sheila had already been tampered with during 'informatives', and by this I mean that items of clothing, property and the bodies of the two women victims, and the rifle from the box room window had already been moved, taken away, brought into the main bedroom scenario! PC Bird did not take photograph number 23 which shows the anshuzt rifle resting against the main bedroom window as viewed from the vantage point of the middle landing of the main stairs looking toward the main bedroom door with the anshuzt rifle leaning against the main bedroom window! He testified and said he took this photograph (which he did not) after photographing Sheila's body in the main bedroom in possession of the anshuzt rifle! PC Bird was / is a common Criminal in uniform, as crooked and dishonest as any criminal you or I might know! The presence of the additional items of clothing and other exhibits on the chair in the bedroom as depicted in photo' 23, and the absence of the same in PC Birds photographs (25 to 33, excluding 26 which was a crime scene photograph taken by DC Oakey (SOCO) on PC Birds own testimony during the 1986 trial) confirms that the SOC examination of the scene in the main bedroom and the taking of photographs there after 10 am, was a seriously dishonest one! PC Bird (SOCO) did not take photograph number 23, DC Oakey (SOCO), or DC Henderson (SOCO) did, it was a photograph taken prior to 10am, not afterwards. PC Bird (SOCO) did not start taking pictures until after 10 am, hence why in the sequence of crime scene photographs taken by him, in the main bedroom, there additional items of clothing and other exhibits on or in the vicinity of the chair as shown in 23, were not visible or present in any of the photographs taken by PC Bird, after 10am! In order to try and be as specific as I can be regarding this matter, all the items shown in 23 had been removed and the crime scene staged before PC Bird started taking the first of his photographs after 10am. If this had not been the case, then the items shown with the chair in photo' 23, would still have been visible in the other photographs taken by PC Bird at 10 am! They were not so somebody removed them, during the stage managing of the bedroom crime scene prior to the second team of SOC were invited into the farmhouse to record the scene on the footing that nothing had been disturbed beforehand! But, it had, items of potential evidential value, the bodies of June and Sheila, and the anshuzt rifle and Bible, were all moved, stage managed by the police before PC Bird started to take any of his crime scene photographs after 10 am!
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And why no statements by Montgomery?
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Wasn't there some confusion about the two officers who never saw the rifle on Sheila's body,yet Montgomery was supposed to have made it safe and moved it back on the window-sill ? But how could he have moved something that wasn't there in the first place ? I don't get it.
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Yes, PC Bird (SOCO), and DI 'Ron' Cook (SOCO) were both members of the second SOC team which set out to deceive everybody into believing and accepting that they photographed the main bedroom scene in its undisturbed state after 10 am, but the absolute truth was / is that by the time the second team of SOCO started to take photographs in the main bedroom after 10 am, the bodies of June and Sheila had already been tampered with during 'informatives', and by this I mean that items of clothing, property and the bodies of the two women victims, and the rifle from the box room window had already been moved, taken away, brought into the main bedroom scenario! PC Bird did not take photograph number 23 which shows the anshuzt rifle resting against the main bedroom window as viewed from the vantage point of the middle landing of the main stairs looking toward the main bedroom door with the anshuzt rifle leaning against the main bedroom window! He testified and said he took this photograph (which he did not) after photographing Sheila's body in the main bedroom in possession of the anshuzt rifle! PC Bird was / is a common Criminal in uniform, as crooked and dishonest as any criminal you or I might know! The presence of the additional items of clothing and other exhibits on the chair in the bedroom as depicted in photo' 23, and the absence of the same in PC Birds photographs (25 to 33, excluding 26 which was a crime scene photograph taken by DC Oakey (SOCO) on PC Birds own testimony during the 1986 trial) confirms that the SOC examination of the scene in the main bedroom and the taking of photographs there after 10 am, was a seriously dishonest one! PC Bird (SOCO) did not take photograph number 23, DC Oakey (SOCO), or DC Henderson (SOCO) did, it was a photograph taken prior to 10am, not afterwards. PC Bird (SOCO) did not start taking pictures until after 10 am, hence why in the sequence of crime scene photographs taken by him, in the main bedroom, there additional items of clothing and other exhibits on or in the vicinity of the chair as shown in 23, were not visible or present in any of the photographs taken by PC Bird, after 10am! In order to try and be as specific as I can be regarding this matter, all the items shown in 23 had been removed and the crime scene staged before PC Bird started taking the first of his photographs after 10am. If this had not been the case, then the items shown with the chair in photo' 23, would still have been visible in the other photographs taken by PC Bird at 10 am! They were not so somebody removed them, during the stage managing of the bedroom crime scene prior to the second team of SOC were invited into the farmhouse to record the scene on the footing that nothing had been disturbed beforehand! But, it had, items of potential evidential value, the bodies of June and Sheila, and the anshuzt rifle and Bible, were all moved, stage managed by the police before PC Bird started to take any of his crime scene photographs after 10 am!
In his haste to pull off the deception that the second team of SOC sought to pull off, on the footing that they photographed an undisturbed crime scene, PC Bird (SOCO) slipped up whilst testifying during the trial, that DC Oakey (SOCO) had taken photograph number 26! Since everyone now knows that photograph 26 shows the barrel of the anshuzt rifle resting directly against the left hand side of Sheila's neck, and PC Bird (SOCO) confirmed that DC Oakey had taken this photograph, it exposes the claim made by DI 'Ron' Cook that nobody was allowed into the farmhouse until after all the crime scene photographs had been taken by PC Bird! Cook testified that a part from PI Montgomery, who was asked to check the safety or otherwise of the anshuzt rifle after Cook himself had supposedly removed the anshuzt rifle from Sheila's body, and stood it against the main bedroom window, that nobody else was allowed into the farmhouse! But if DC Oakey had taken photograph no. 26 as confirmed by PC Bird during his testimony, then what Cook was claiming has to be a deliberate lie! In addition, senior officers performed ' Informatives' during a one hour period in the main bedroom between 9am and 10 am, and lots of police officers including PS Adams, DS Jones and DC Clark visited the main bedroom and viewed the bodies of June and Shiela on the bed together! The Coroner's officer was another person who visited the main bedroom scene and who said that when he visited the main bedroom and saw the body of Sheila, that there was no gun with her body by this time (9.30am), it had already been removed from the body! How remarkable then that by10 am when PC Bird started to take the so-called official crime scene photographs, that the rifle was on Sheila's body, and cops were claiming that nothing had been disturbed until after PC Bird had finished taking all of his photographs that he started taking from 10 am, onwards! How can the rifle be on the bed in-between the bodies of June and Sheila (prior to 9.13am) when DS Jones and DC Clark visited the main bedroom scene, and the rifle not be on the body when PC Wright (Coroner's Officer) visited the main bedroom at 9.30am, and he saw Sheila's body, yet by 10 am, onward Sheila's body is in possession of the said rifle, and cops are claiming (dishonestly) that the main bedroom scenario had remained undisturbed throughout the entire morning until after PC Bird had concluded taking all of his photographs!!!
The cops in this case, staged the main bedroom crime scene, with the bodies of June and Sheila on separate parts of the bedroom floor with the anshuzt rifle from the box room window, now in the possession of Sheila Caffells body in time for PC Bird to photograph it there, supposedly where it had always been! The funny thing is, that this rifle was seen by Jeapes and Brown resting against a first floor box room window at around 7.15am! How did it manage to be present downstairs in the kitchen to enable it to fire the first shot as per the officers report (1612) about the shooting incident in the kitchen, and upstairs in the main bedroom onto the body of Sheila by 10am, if Jeremy Bamber was the killer, and he staged his sister's death scene in the main bedroom, on the bedroom floor?
Common sense dictates that Jeremy Bamber could not have shot dead his sister on the main bedroom floor, nor could he have staged her death scene trying to portray her death there as a suicide!
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Is Sheila's body was on the bed then where is her blood on the bed?
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Is Sheila's body was on the bed then where is her blood on the bed?
You can't see it in the disclosed crime scene photographs because the quilt is folded over, and the bedsheet was destroyed in a fire by police prior to them handing the keys back to Ann Eaton on evening of 9 August 1985..
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I've seen a pic where there was blood on the sheet because the pattern of the blood was at the back of Sheila's nightdress as though she'd been sitting on the bed.
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I've seen a pic where there was blood on the sheet because the pattern of the blood was at the back of Sheila's nightdress as though she'd been sitting on the bed.
Well, I have not seen any images of the bedsheet, nor of the unfolded bed quilt! But in the photographs I have seen of Sheila's body on top of the bed, she was laid on top of the bed quilt, and she had only been shot once! Her body was laid on the left of the teddy bears as viewed from the vantage point of being at the foot of the bed! You can still see the impression of her head where it had been resting at the time Oakey or Henderson photographed Sheila laid on the bed! Cops folded that side of the bed quilt back I assume to hide any bloodstain evidence on that part of the quilt after they moved her body from the bed to the floor..
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On the chair in the photo from the stair there is something with a frill round the bottom like a valance ? Can't make it out ? And what is to the right of the chair ?
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On the chair in the photo from the stair there is something with a frill reindeer the bottom like a valance ? Can't make it out ? And what is to the right of the chair ?
There is also a black box type item on the window sill, which could be a briefcase..
It's missing from the window in other photographs taken later by PC Bird (SOCO)...
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Couldn't they just have lain her on the ground in an attempt to administer CPR?
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In the lower picture where the covers are partially drawn back,there is the blood on the sheet which matches the blood ( pattern ) on the back of Sheila's nightdress as shown in the laboratory pic of her nightdress.
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Arrows by differences that appear between crime scene photos
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I don't get this at all,in that horrendous pic of June,the door opens the other way ? Where Sheila is lying,June had been propped up against the door and was found behind it ?
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Huh! I'll bet that alleged policeman wished he'd never got out of bed that morning. Oscar Wilde might have described it as "Shooting her once was unfortunate. Shooting her twice was incompetent".
Scoff all you like, but cops had to tamper with a piece of badly fragmented bullet (PV/20) recovered by the pathologist during autopsy performed on 7 August 1985, supported by X-ray images and replace it with a whole bullet so that the ballistic expert could conclude in September 1985 that the anshuzt rifle had fired both shots into Sheila's throat! Two bodies reported as found in downstairs kitchen upon entry, the body of one dead male, and the body of one dead female (from 7.35am, onward), a murder, and a suicide ( by 7.45am), only three bodies found upstairs by 8.10am! It was an impossibility for the second body police to come across inside the farmhouse upstairs if Sheila Caffells body was found on the main bedroom floor where PC Bird (SOCO) photographed it from 10 am, onward! Her body would have been the third body stumbled upon if the firearm officers had entered the main bedroom via the door situated at the top of the main stairs! The second body found could not be described as a suicide in this instance, the first two bodies (Neville's and Junes) could only be described as a murder, and a murder! If the cops didn't enter the main bedroom by that door, but went via the children's bedroom and the box room, Sheila's body would have been found next to last! In those circumstances, cops would have referred to her death in the following sequence, a murder, (Neville), a murder (Daniel), a murder (Nicholas), a suicide (Sheila), followed by a murder (June Bamber). According to the explanation given in firearm officers statements, cops found Neville Bambers first, then June Bambers body, then Sheila's body, and then the bodies of the two child victims! If the second body found was being referred to as a suicide, that could not apply to the death of June Bamber who had been shot a total of 7 times! The only victim whose death might be described as being a suicide was Sheila Caffells, but with her body on the bedroom floor as claimed, hers could not have been the second body found,it would have been the third body found by 7.45am, cops would have to have said that they were dealing with three bodies, a murder, a murder, and a suicide! The only way the second body could have been spoken in terms of it being a suicide was if Sheila's death supposedly occurred downstairs in the kitchen where Neville Bambers murder was also confirmed by 7.45am! The other three bodies, all murders were found upstairs between 7.45am and 8.10am, five dead in total!
So, scoff all you like, my account is accurate, logical and absolutely true!
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Scoff all you like, but cops had to tamper with a piece of badly fragmented bullet (PV/20) recovered by the pathologist during autopsy performed on 7 August 1985, supported by X-ray images and replace it with a whole bullet so that the ballistic expert could conclude in September 1985 that the anshuzt rifle had fired both shots into Sheila's throat! Two bodies reported as found in downstairs kitchen upon entry, the body of one dead male, and the body of one dead female (from 7.35am, onward), a murder, and a suicide ( by 7.45am), only three bodies found upstairs by 8.10am! It was an impossibility for the second body police to come across inside the farmhouse upstairs if Sheila Caffells body was found on the main bedroom floor where PC Bird (SOCO) photographed it from 10 am, onward! Her body would have been the third body stumbled upon if the firearm officers had entered the main bedroom via the door situated at the top of the main stairs! The second body found could not be described as a suicide in this instance, the first two bodies (Neville's and Junes) could only be described as a murder, and a murder! If the cops didn't enter the main bedroom by that door, but went via the children's bedroom and the box room, Sheila's body would have been found next to last! In those circumstances, cops would have referred to her death in the following sequence, a murder, (Neville), a murder (Daniel), a murder (Nicholas), a suicide (Sheila), followed by a murder (June Bamber). According to the explanation given in firearm officers statements, cops found Neville Bambers first, then June Bambers body, then Sheila's body, and then the bodies of the two child victims! If the second body found was being referred to as a suicide, that could not apply to the death of June Bamber who had been shot a total of 7 times! The only victim whose death might be described as being a suicide was Sheila Caffells, but with her body on the bedroom floor as claimed, hers could not have been the second body found,it would have been the third body found by 7.45am, cops would have to have said that they were dealing with three bodies, a murder, a murder, and a suicide! The only way the second body could have been spoken in terms of it being a suicide was if Sheila's death supposedly occurred downstairs in the kitchen where Neville Bambers murder was also confirmed by 7.45am! The other three bodies, all murders were found upstairs between 7.45am and 8.10am, five dead in total!
So, scoff all you like, my account is accurate, logical and absolutely true!
I'm fully prepared to accept that your account may be accurate, however, whether it's the truth is another question. You weren't there. You only have the word of "A" person/people who allegedly were there and as we all know, each of us has a different truth. Each of us will swear that our truth is THE truth. You have told us many "truths" as told you by many different people. Are they all THE truth. I'm still at a loss as to WHY all these people who allegedly know THE truth, are still hiding it all these years down the line.
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Arrows by differences that appear between crime scene photos
These differences occur because photo number 23 was taken before PC Bird (SOCO) ever set foot inside the farmhouse, it was taken by DC Oakey or DC Henderson during 'informatives' being conducted by senior officers inside the main bedroom between 9am and 10am! This practice of 'informatives' by these senior officers involved in this case, an attempt to cover up the shooting of Sheila downstairs in the kitchen by a firearm officer (as per the officers report, 1612, regarding the shooting incident in the kitchen upon entry)! Yes, these unscrupulous cops were content to present Sheila's death not downstairs in the kitchen, but upstairs in the main bedroom by use of the anshuzt rifle, and not by the police weapon which actually inflicted the first shot! They justified doing this because they were satisfied that Sheila had murdered the other four victims, and arguably deserved to have also died, and to prevent an inquiry into the shooting of her by a police officer upon entry to the kitchen! Once the rifle was brought from one box room window into the main bedroom and eventually placed on her body by the cops, their minds were made up to claim that she had shot herself with the anshuzt rifle! They played down the suggestion that Sheila had been shot twice claiming she had only been shot once, which is bizarre because from 9.13am onward Sheila had two bullet wounds to her throat! The anshuzt rifle had only fired one of these two shots, the bullet which killed her off (exhibit PV/19)! The case was to be processed through the Coroner's Court system, not the criminal court system! But for the tenacity of the relatives the cover up would never become exposed, and the case was eventually processed via the criminal court system with Jeremy Bamber made the chief suspect! The rest is history! Any way, back to the items that have vanished in-between photographs taken by the Oakey/ Henderson SOC mob, and the Cook/ Bird SOC mob! Things were moved about during 'informatives' and by the time cops staged Sheila's death scene on the main bedroom floor, and PC Bird (SOCO) started to take photographs from 10 am, onward, the main bedroom scenario had become transformed into a stage managed death scene, where cops sought to promote Sheila's death as a suicide! This is what did happen, and this is what cops are responsible for doing! They know full well that Jeremy Bamber did not shoot his sister dead, either downstairs in the kitchen, or upstairs in the main bedroom! All these crooked cops are bothered about is trying to make themselves look good, and they refuse to admit what they have done, in fact they have gone out of their way to place obstacles in the way of anybody trying to reconstruct what really did happen to Sheila Caffell and how she actually lost her life after cops were inside the farmhouse! There is no evidence whatsoever to suggest that Sheila was already dead before the firearm officers entered the farmhouse. How could she have been dead before police went into the farmhouse, her body on the bedroom floor in possession of a rifle which was seen resting against another first floor window from 7.15am, onward? How could that rifle be in two places at one and the same time? It couldn't have been, and it wasn't! Cops and nobody else staged Sheila's death on the main bedroom floor, they brought the anshuzt rifle to her body in the main bedroom from the box room and they staged her supposed suicide! It's not every day cops would have gone to such lengths, but in this instance they did! They did not promote her death and stage her death as a suicide lightly! They did it to protect themselves from investigation into all the mistakes that were made during the seige, and the fact that they were negligent and caused the death of Sheila..
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I'm fully prepared to accept that your account may be accurate, however, whether it's the truth is another question. You weren't there. You only have the word of "A" person/people who allegedly were there and as we all know, each of us has a different truth. Each of us will swear that our truth is THE truth. You have told us many "truths" as told you by many different people. Are they all THE truth. I'm still at a loss as to WHY all these people who allegedly know THE truth, are still hiding it all these years down the line.
You need to speak to the families and friends of the Hillsborough tragedy cover up, from 28 years ago - all the cops involved did not break their necks and tell the truth about what was done, how it was done, or why it was done! Same underlying principles apply here! Cops are criminals in uniform and their cousins in crime the CPS can never be prosecuted for telling lies, fabricating evidence, etc, etc, etc. There is clear evidence that Sheila was reported killed downstairs in the kitchen, her death being spoken of in terms of it being a suicide by 7.45am, cops have spoken of seeing her body on top of the bed with only a single shot to the throat and the rifle on the bed in-between the bodies of June and Sheila! Only three bodies upstairs by 8.10am, all five bodies accounted for by this stage. It's true I wasn't inside whf on the morning of the cover up surrounding the shootings of Sheila once downstairs in the kitchen, and secondly upstairs on the main bedroom floor but I have spoken personally with people who were there who have confirmed what literally took place, and I have seen photographic evidence of Sheila's body on top of the bed, minus the gun and with only a single shot to the throat! The cops have fabricated a dishonest case against Jeremy Bamber, rather than face the music for the mistakes and wrong doings of themselves. They don't mind blaming anybody, or them getting convicted and falsely imprisoned, they don't care just so long as they come out of it (the cops) smelling of roses! Ask the families and friends of the Hillsboro' 96 about how it feels for the cops and their counterparts to falsify the contents of witness statements and blame Liverpool Supporters for the tragedy! You ask them what their truth is!
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You need to speak to the families and friends of the Hillsborough tragedy cover up, from 28 years ago - all the cops involved did not break their necks and tell the truth about what was done, how it was done, or why it was done! Same underlying principles apply here! Cops are criminals in uniform and their cousins in crime the CPS can never be prosecuted for telling lies, fabricating evidence, etc, etc, etc. There is clear evidence that Sheila was reported killed downstairs in the kitchen, her death being spoken of in terms of it being a suicide by 7.45am, cops have spoken of seeing her body on top of the bed with only a single shot to the throat and the rifle on the bed in-between the bodies of June and Sheila! Only three bodies upstairs by 8.10am, all five bodies accounted for by this stage. It's true I wasn't inside whf on the morning of the cover up surrounding the shootings of Sheila once downstairs in the kitchen, and secondly upstairs on the main bedroom floor but I have spoken personally with people who were there who have confirmed what literally took place, and I have seen photographic evidence of Sheila's body on top of the bed, minus the gun and with only a single shot to the throat! The cops have fabricated a dishonest case against Jeremy Bamber, rather than face the music for the mistakes and wrong doings of themselves. They don't mind blaming anybody, or them getting convicted and falsely imprisoned, they don't care just so long as they come out of it (the cops) smelling of roses! Ask the families and friends of the Hillsboro' 96 about how it feels for the cops and their counterparts to falsify the contents of witness statements and blame Liverpool Supporters for the tragedy! You ask them what their truth is!
The really sad thing is, even when cops fabricate a case against somebody or other, they still can't solve it, without them eventually becoming exposed! They are the scum of the earth to victims like me, but public heroes to many members of the public who are brainwashed by the authorities into believing and accepting any bullshit they are told by corrupt cops and CPS...
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There is absolutely no doubt whatsoever that Jeremy Bamber did not shoot dead his sister, either in the kitchen when cops entered, or upstairs on the main bedroom floor! This is my truth, and its the absolute truth! Cops know it's the truth, CPS know it's the truth! The evidence proving all of this is there in the case file and photographs, some already disclosed, some dishonestly withheld under the pretense of pii..
But the truth will one day emerge, the authorities are dragging their feet, hoping that every last one of those involved in this cover up die, so that they can't be prosecuted! One by one, the perpetrators are dying off so it's getting closer to the day this miscarriage of justice gets rectified!Bamber himself might even die in custody before then, but just like in Derek Bentley's case, I believe that Jeremy will be exonerated postumously..
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There is absolutely no doubt whatsoever that Jeremy Bamber did not shoot dead his sister, either in the kitchen when cops entered, or upstairs on the main bedroom floor! This is my truth, and its the absolute truth! Cops know it's the truth, CPS know it's the truth! The evidence proving all of this is there in the case file and photographs, some already disclosed, some dishonestly withheld under the pretense of pii..
But the truth will one day emerge, the authorities are dragging their feet, hoping that every last one of those involved in this cover up die, so that they can't be prosecuted! One by one, the perpetrators are dying off so it's getting closer to the day this miscarriage of justice gets rectified!Bamber himself might even die in custody before then, but just like in Derek Bentley's case, I believe that Jeremy will be exonerated postumously..
I thought you were privy to information that Bamber was about to be hanged..
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I thought you were privy to information that Bamber was about to be hanged..
I'm just saying that the extent of the corruption involved in the case which has already dragged on for nigh on 32 years, might remain concealed until either all those who were directly responsible for the cover up surrounding Sheila's death in the main bedroom die, and or until after Jeremy's own death before the authorities own up to the truth in this matter!
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High way do you think the door opens in the picture lookout?
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Are you assuming the object by the second arrow is a handle ?
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It looks as though it opens to the left of the picture.
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They were small rooms for such a big Georgian edifice.
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Anyone any good with photos ? All three arrowed items I don't understand but how can there be something on he wall to the right of the window in one photo and not on the other ?
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This is why I think the rooms are different.
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The door handles on the main bedroom don't look like that though.
Here is the picture with nothing on the wall to the right of the window
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So which room,or where was all that claptrap moved to which was beneath the window ?
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So which room,or where was all that claptrap moved to which was beneath the window ?
Who knows I just don't get it . Unless there is an identical set of stairs in another part of the house
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Who knows I just don't get it . Unless there is an identical set of stairs in another part of the house
I've never fathomed it out since I've been on the forum because I noticed it straight away and have never been happy about the set-up. I don't know at all.
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Well there are two staircases ? I think?
Could they have been the same ?
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It's a possibility,but I really don't know.
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Some room plans
I can't see that the photo into the room was taken from any other staircase ?
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you dont have to have that muh experience to know what a riffle looks like it.
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The rifle pictured at the window from the vantage point of the middle landing on the main stairs is definitely the main bedroom, you can see June Bambers hand at the bottom right hand side of the door opening in the same photograph!
I have an explanation regarding the differences involving the items on the chair in this photograph that was taken prior to 10 am by DC Oakey or DC Henderson (both part of the first SOC team which took photographs and a crime scene video at the time senior officers performed 'informatives' inside the main bedroom between 9 and 10am), and the subsequent staging of the scene and in particular the movement of the two bodies from on top of the bed, onto the bedroom floor on either side of the aforementioned bed!
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First of all, everyone should remember the sighting of the silhotted figure seen by PC Myalls, PS Bews, and Jeremy Bamber, standing and moving about in front of the main bedroom window! Forget the nonsense spouted by PS Bews about it being a trick of light, because he knows it was a living person they all saw, and had to have been either Neville Bamber, June Bamber, or Sheila Caffell! Bews knew full well by the time he came to testify during the October 1986 Chelmsford Crown Court trial, that if he acknowledged the presence of a living person inside the farmhouse (i.e. a person at the main bedroom window) with Jeremy outside in the grounds with himself and PC Myalls, that the case being pursued against Jeremy Bamber would have collapsed there and then! That's why Bews dishonestly claimed it was a trick of light! Notice, how PC Myalls did not make the same claim, and he was there outside alongside Bews and Jeremy! Instead, PC Myalls describes the sighting of this person as an unidentified male, as per the very first entry in a police record entitled 'THE MAJOR INCIDENT PROJECT'..
The following therefore needs to be taken into account..
If the silhotted figure that was seen at and beyond the main bedroom window was Sheila Caffell, it means that Jeremy did not shoot her dead, either downstairs in the kitchen alongside the body of Neville Bamber, and that he could not and did not shoot his sister dead upstairs in the main bedroom, nor stage her death scene there on the main bedroom floor to promote the idea that she had committed suicide! Secondly, if the silhotted figure was or had been June Bamber, then Jeremy could not be held accountable for shooting June dead between the eyes, or for staging her death scene either on top of the bed, or by somehow moving her body against the door to the main bedroom! Thirdly, if the silhotted figure was or had been Neville Bamber, then Jeremy could not have been involved in a struggle which led to his death downstairs in the kitchen - such a struggle would have to have occurred after the sighting of the figure at and beyond the main bedroom window! Neville was killed off during this struggle, so it goes without question that if the silhoetted figure had been Neville Bamber that Jeremy can't have struggled with him, beat him, over powered him and killed him off in the kitchen later!
PS Bews did not shit in his trousers and dash back to the police patrol car that was being manned by PS Saxby and pass a situation report requesting that firearms to be deployed to the scene immediately because of a trick of light at the main bedroom window! He told the control room that they (himself, Myall and Jeremy Bamber) had just witnessed somebody standing, and moving about suspiciously inside the main bedroom window, who could possibly have been armed with a gun!
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First of all, everyone should remember the sighting of the silhotted figure seen by PC Myalls, PS Bews, and Jeremy Bamber, standing and moving about in front of the main bedroom window! Forget the nonsense spouted by PS Bews about it being a trick of light, because he knows it was a living person they all saw, and had to have been either Neville Bamber, June Bamber, or Sheila Caffell! Bews knew full well by the time he came to testify during the October 1986 Chelmsford Crown Court trial, that if he acknowledged the presence of a living person inside the farmhouse (i.e. a person at the main bedroom window) with Jeremy outside in the grounds with himself and PC Myalls, that the case being pursued against Jeremy Bamber would have collapsed there and then! That's why Bews dishonestly claimed it was a trick of light! Notice, how PC Myalls did not make the same claim, and he was there outside alongside Bews and Jeremy! Instead, PC Myalls describes the sighting of this person as an unidentified male, as per the very first entry in a police record entitled 'THE MAJOR INCIDENT PROJECT'..
The following therefore needs to be taken into account..
If the silhotted figure that was seen at and beyond the main bedroom window was Sheila Caffell, it means that Jeremy did not shoot her dead, either downstairs in the kitchen alongside the body of Neville Bamber, and that he could not and did not shoot his sister dead upstairs in the main bedroom, nor stage her death scene there on the main bedroom floor to promote the idea that she had committed suicide! Secondly, if the silhotted figure was or had been June Bamber, then Jeremy could not be held accountable for shooting June dead between the eyes, or for staging her death scene either on top of the bed, or by somehow moving her body against the door to the main bedroom! Thirdly, if the silhotted figure was or had been Neville Bamber, then Jeremy could not have been involved in a struggle which led to his death downstairs in the kitchen - such a struggle would have to have occurred after the sighting of the figure at and beyond the main bedroom window! Neville was killed off during this struggle, so it goes without question that if the silhoetted figure had been Neville Bamber that Jeremy can't have struggled with him, beat him, over powered him and killed him off in the kitchen later!
PS Bews did not shit in his trousers and dash back to the police patrol car that was being manned by PS Saxby and pass a situation report requesting that firearms to be deployed to the scene immediately because of a trick of light at the main bedroom window! He told the control room that they (himself, Myall and Jeremy Bamber) had just witnessed somebody standing, and moving about suspiciously inside the main bedroom window, who could possibly have been armed with a gun!
it therefore, matters not a jot, who the person inside the main bedroom window was, at the time they were seen by Myalls, Bews and Jeremy, since the eventual death of that person inside the farmhouse, be it Neville Bambers death downstairs in the kitchen, Sheila's supposed suicide either downstairs in the kitchen, or upstairs on the bed, or on the bedroom floor, or June Bambers death on the bed, or by the main bedroom door on the floor, simply because in each instance of these three adult victims deaths, there had to occur something so unique in the way they all died and how their bodies were staged! In at least one of these three instances, the last of these three to actually die could not have been at the hand of Jeremy Bamber, because at least one of these three victims was still alive inside the main bedroom and moving around suspiciously when observed by the two police officers and Jeremy who were outside in the grounds of the farmhouse, a sighting which caused PS Bews to shit his trousers, and request that the firearms team be deployed to the scene immediately!
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it therefore, matters not a jot, who the person inside the main bedroom window was, at the time they were seen by Myalls, Bews and Jeremy, since the eventual death of that person inside the farmhouse, be it Neville Bambers death downstairs in the kitchen, Sheila's supposed suicide either downstairs in the kitchen, or upstairs on the bed, or on the bedroom floor, or June Bambers death on the bed, or by the main bedroom door on the floor, simply because in each instance of these three adult victims deaths, there had to occur something so unique in the way they all died and how their bodies were staged! In at least one of these three instances, the last of these three to actually die could not have been at the hand of Jeremy Bamber, because at least one of these three victims was still alive inside the main bedroom and moving around suspiciously when observed by the two police officers and Jeremy who were outside in the grounds of the farmhouse, a sighting which caused PS Bews to shit his trousers, and request that the firearms team be deployed to the scene immediately!
Then of course, and not simply by coincidence, lights in different rooms of the farmhouse were being switched on and off, and curtains at windows were being closed and opened! These activities were not being performed by Crispy the dog, but by someone, at least one of the three adult victims still being alive in different parts of the farmhouse! Then at 5.47am, the off the hook phone line from the farmhouse mysteriously became 'engaged'! By 6.08am, the operator was patching through to police in the control room a call being made by someone inside the farmhouse via the 999 system! Somebody (and certainly not Crispy the dog) requested that two ambulances be brought to the incident straight away, one ambulance to go directly to the farmhouse, the second ambulance to remain on standby parked up in nearby Pages Lane! The funny thing regarding this call which was patched through to cops via the open 999 call system, was terminated at 7.47am, after only two of the five bodies were reportedly dead downstairs in the kitchen, 'the body of one dead male, and the body of one dead female, found in kitchen upon entry', oh and 'two bodies, a murder and a suicide'...
Crispy the dog was still alive when police got into the farmhouse, so there can be no possibility of it being a dog trick by claiming that one of the two reported deaths included the death of the dog!
Clearly, somebody still alive inside the farmhouse, whilst Jeremy was outside in the company of the police!
I think these are sufficient reasons for accepting that Jeremy Bamber was not the killer!
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So, bearing in mind all I have just said, we now come to my explanation for the disappearence of items on the chair, and elsewhere, inside the main bedroom between photo' 23 taken by Oakey or Henderson, (between 9 am and 10 am), and other photo's taken by PC Bird (from 10 am), onwards...
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So, bearing in mind all I have just said, we now come to my explanation for the disappearence of items on the chair, and elsewhere, inside the main bedroom between photo' 23 taken by Oakey or Henderson, (between 9 am and 10 am), and other photo's taken by PC Bird (from 10 am), onwards...
It seems clear to me, that one of the cloth type items on the chair in the Oakey / Henderson (SOCO) photo, no. 23 appears to be a net type curtain which would normally have hung at the main bedroom window! This had obviously been pulled down during some altercation in the main bedroom at the time June Bamber was shot and attacked there! Her blood dripped on the bedroom carpet around the bed and in the vicinity of the main bedroom window, so I am inclined to believe that the net curtain at the main bedroom window got pulled down whilst she had been or was being attacked and she had managed to get out of bed and move around inside the main bedroom, prior to the arrival of Bews, Myalls, and Jeremy, in time to see her moving about close to the bedroom window! By that stage of course the net curtain at the main bedroom window had already been dislodged and was no longer hanging there at the main bedroom window, because neither Bews, Myalls or for that matter Jeremy himself have mentioned net curtains at the main bedroom window at the time of the sighting of the figure at the same window!
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I too think that " net curtain " was pulled from the window too. Maybe someone had been trying to get to the window to open it,as we know that those sash windows lift upwards to open.
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It seems clear to me, that one of the cloth type items on the chair in the Oakey / Henderson (SOCO) photo, no. 23 appears to be a net type curtain which would normally have hung at the main bedroom window! This had obviously been pulled down during some altercation in the main bedroom at the time June Bamber was shot and attacked there! Her blood dripped on the bedroom carpet around the bed and in the vicinity of the main bedroom window, so I am inclined to believe that the net curtain at the main bedroom window got pulled down whilst she had been or was being attacked and she had managed to get out of bed and move around inside the main bedroom, prior to the arrival of Bews, Myalls, and Jeremy, in time to see her moving about close to the bedroom window! By that stage of course the net curtain at the main bedroom window had already been dislodged and was no longer hanging there at the main bedroom window, because neither Bews, Myalls or for that matter Jeremy himself have mentioned net curtains at the main bedroom window at the time of the sighting of the figure at the same window!
What also seems apparent to me, is that the curtains either side of the main bedroom window in photo' no. 23 had also been pulled down or removed (by whom I do not profess to know) so that when the Oakey / Henderson photo' (23) was taken the curtains and the net from the same window were no longer hanging there, but we're crumpled up on the chair, or thereabouts! This explains the dark looking area on the wall directly to the right hand side of the main bedroom window in the aforementioned photograph!
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Now, before I go any further and expand upon what I believe took place regarding the differences between these photographs of the same bedroom and window, I think everybody should try to understand why police conduct 'informatives' at major crime scenes, like in this instance!
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Now, before I go any further and expand upon what I believe took place regarding the differences between these photographs of the same bedroom and window, I think everybody should try to understand why police conduct 'informatives' at major crime scenes, like in this instance!
Well, it's normal practice before any such undertakings occur, for the crime scene in question to be completely photographed before any thing is touched or moved, or as the case may be, is added (for whatever reason)! In this instance, senior officers carried out 'informatives' in the farmhouse, between 9 am and 10 am! With this in mind, it must follow that a team of SOCO's, which I can report consisted of DC Oakey, and a DC Henderson, photographed the entire crime scene downstairs and upstairs before senior officers stepped in to perform these 'informatives'. This duty could not be performed by Cook, Bird, Davidson, and Hammersley, because they were not invited into the farmhouse to perform their duties until after 10am, by which stage (particularly in the main bedroom scenario) the scene had been set and staged, including the two bodies of June and Sheila, staged by a select group of high ranking police officers! The second lot of SOCO (Cook, Bird, Davidson, and Hammersley) took charge of a crime scene which had been staged during 'Informatives' by senior officers, intent on presenting an alternative explanation surrounding the actual death of Sheila Caffell on the bedroom floor! Cook, Bird, Davidson and Hammersley, recorded the evidence in the form of exhibits and photographs as found by them after 10am, believing that the scene they were recording and gathering evidence about and from, had remained undisturbed from the time of discovery two and a half hours previously! But, what they dealt with was clearly a staged set up, staged by senior officers during 'informatives' ..
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Well, it's normal practice before any such undertakings occur, for the crime scene in question to be completely photographed before any thing is touched or moved, or as the case may be, is added (for whatever reason)! In this instance, senior officers carried out 'informatives' in the farmhouse, between 9 am and 10 am! With this in mind, it must follow that a team of SOCO's, which I can report consisted of DC Oakey, and a DC Henderson, photographed the entire crime scene downstairs and upstairs before senior officers stepped in to perform these 'informatives'. This duty could not be performed by Cook, Bird, Davidson, and Hammersley, because they were not invited into the farmhouse to perform their duties until after 10am, by which stage (particularly in the main bedroom scenario) the scene had been set and staged, including the two bodies of June and Sheila, staged by a select group of high ranking police officers! The second lot of SOCO (Cook, Bird, Davidson, and Hammersley) took charge of a crime scene which had been staged during 'Informatives' by senior officers, intent on presenting an alternative explanation surrounding the actual death of Sheila Caffell on the bedroom floor! Cook, Bird, Davidson and Hammersley, recorded the evidence in the form of exhibits and photographs as found by them after 10am, believing that the scene they were recording and gathering evidence about and from, had remained undisturbed from the time of discovery two and a half hours previously! But, what they dealt with was clearly a staged set up, staged by senior officers during 'informatives' ..
The undisturbed crime scene was documented by the first group of SOC (Oakey and Henderson), this is why differences appear in different photographs taken let's say in the main bedroom at one time or another!
If all 581 photographs, which form part and parcel of 'THE SENIOR INVESTIGATING OFFICERS ALBUM', could be recovered, you would see the differences in the crime scene in let's say the main bedroom as photographed by the first team of SOCO (Oakey and Henderson), and the so-called same crime scene, as photographed by the second team of SOCO (Cook, Bird, Davidson and Hammersley), in the former the bodies of June Bamber, and Sheila Caffell, were photographed on top of the bed in the main bedroom, and later on the bedroom floor either side of the bed, whereas in the latter case when Cook, Bird, Davidson and Hammersley gathered and recorded the evidence the bodies of June and Sheila were on the bedroom floor either side of the aforementioned bed!
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What has taken place here, involving the staging of the bodies of June and Sheila on the bedroom floor, is very sinister indeed! Not only have senior officers deliberately staged a false account regarding where they allege the bodies of the two women had been found, but they instructed PC Bird to create a false photographic schedule, containing 223 photographs or so, which was misleadingly named , ' THE MASTER COPY ALBUM'!
HOW CAN IT BE CALLED THAT, WHEN 358 PHOTOGRAPHS WERE MISSING FROM IT?
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What has taken place here, involving the staging of the bodies of June and Sheila on the bedroom floor, is very sinister indeed! Not only have senior officers deliberately staged a false account regarding where they allege the bodies of the two women had been found, but they instructed PC Bird to create a false photographic schedule, containing 223 photographs or so, which was misleadingly named , ' THE MASTER COPY ALBUM'!
HOW CAN IT BE CALLED THAT, WHEN 358 PHOTOGRAPHS WERE MISSING FROM IT?
This exercise was undertaken to deliberately try to conceal the existence of photographic evidence (they removed 358 photographs) which serve to establish beyond doubt that cops staged Sheila Caffells death on the main bedroom floor, they shot Sheila, they presented her death as a suicide, using a rifle which only fired one of the two shots in her throat! These criminals in uniform then had the audacity to arrest and successfully prosecute Jeremy Bamber on the footing that he had shot and killed his sister, and that he had staged her death scene, when all along these monsters in uniform did it themselves all along!
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What has taken place here, involving the staging of the bodies of June and Sheila on the bedroom floor, is very sinister indeed! Not only have senior officers deliberately staged a false account regarding where they allege the bodies of the two women had been found, but they instructed PC Bird to create a false photographic schedule, containing 223 photographs or so, which was misleadingly named , ' THE MASTER COPY ALBUM'!
HOW CAN IT BE CALLED THAT, WHEN 358 PHOTOGRAPHS WERE MISSING FROM IT?
I don't understand. If June and Sheila were found on the bed then are you saying June was shot and then wandered around the room bleeding including to the other side of the bed and then got back into bed again to die? I am not trying to query what you saw but it does all not really make sense ? Did the police check the blood grouping on the carpet?
I agree there is something odd in that main room as how come the parcel on the chair did not get disturbed the shoes were not disturbed ? How come the chairs were neatly in place ? Was the blood on June's nightdress tested ? was it all hers ?
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What also seems apparent to me, is that during the 'informatives', and prior to Cook, Bird, Davidson and Hammersley taking control of the staged crime scene after 10am, is that certain items were removed from the main bedroom, and others added! Also, that the bedroom curtains were rehung back at the main bedroom window, and the anshuzt rifle brought from the box room window, and eventually placed with Sheila's body on the bedroom floor (via the main bedroom window, as shown in photo' no. 23)...
Then Cook, Bird, Davidson and Hammersley took control of the scene in its staged state (two and a half hours later), and presented the argument that they had recorded the crime scene in its undisturbed state!
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Those are questions that I've tried to work out too Jan. Very little,if anything is known of the blood on June's nightdress.It was probably taken as all being from her own injuries,which isn't always so when there was other involvement.
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I don't understand. If June and Sheila were found on the bed then are you saying June was shot and then wandered around the room bleeding including to the other side of the bed and then got back into bed again to die? I am not trying to query what you saw but it does all not really make sense ? Did the police check the blood grouping on the carpet?
I agree there is something odd in that main room as how come the parcel on the chair did not get disturbed the shoes were not disturbed ? How come the chairs were neatly in place ? Was the blood on June's nightdress tested ? was it all hers ?
I have personally been a victim of police and CPS corruption and dishonesty!
I have helped hundreds of other victims expose corruption and dishonesty by these criminals in office, and these victims have got their convictions quashed eventually, and in some instances they have been financially compensated! But at the end of the day non of these criminals in uniform or public office ever or hardly ever get prosecuted! If the truth be known in some instances these crooks in uniform and office actually get promotion, and receive hefty pay rises and improved pension rights!
The case of Jeremy Bamber has obviously been the hardest case I have ever tried to help with!
His situation is somewhat unique in the history of the criminal justice system, but I believe that enough evidence in documentary firm and photographs exist to prove that he did not shoot his sister dead on the main bedroom floor, and he did not stage her death scene to try and promote the idea that she had taken her own life! The cops shot her whether anyone can justify that they did or not, the cops staged her death scene, the cops presented her death as a suicide, the cops switched one of the two bullets used in the shooting of her replacing it with a test fired round fired via the anshuzt rifle, the cops created false photographic schedules to deliberately hide the existence of 358 damning photographs each collectively and individually capable of proving that cops are responsible for Sheila Caffells death, not Sheila herself, and certainly not Jeremy!
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It's all a bit deja vous and groundhog day all rolled into one. ::)
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I agree that Jeremy is innocent . I have always believed that . And I also think there must be some proof in the crime scene photos somewhere .
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There have been cases where armed police have been over-zealous,with one being very recent where a drunken man was holding hostage his wife and children. The man was shot dead by police.Why not tasered instead ?
Then there was the man running through a station in London,Jean Charles de Menezes.
Many have been shot over the years.
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I don't understand. If June and Sheila were found on the bed then are you saying June was shot and then wandered around the room bleeding including to the other side of the bed and then got back into bed again to die? I am not trying to query what you saw but it does all not really make sense ? Did the police check the blood grouping on the carpet?
I agree there is something odd in that main room as how come the parcel on the chair did not get disturbed the shoes were not disturbed ? How come the chairs were neatly in place ? Was the blood on June's nightdress tested ? was it all hers ?
I, too, would love to know the answer to the question you raise re June and Sheila being found together on the bed. I feel sure you'll agree that, as no acceptable answer has ever been forthcoming, belief is suspended.
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Suspended rather than Dismissed.
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I, too, would love to know the answer to the question you raise re June and Sheila being found together on the bed. I feel sure you'll agree that, as no acceptable answer has ever been forthcoming, belief is suspended.
Like I said I am always asking questions . But there are definitely things in that room that don't make sense
Let's just take the initial call IF jeremy is innocent he could have assumed that his father meant Sheila because of her illness and yet there is June with all that blood on her nightdress and we don't really know the whole sequence of what happened to this day ? Who fought who? Why was Sheila's bed not slept in? Why were nevilles slippers in her room ? Was she bible reading in the bed with June? Was June's nightdress tested ? Why was Anne allowed to take things away from the crime scene ? Who's blood was on the bedroom floor? Why did one of the forensic tests say they could be a mixture of animal blood and human blood on the silencer ?
All this time and because of the way the crime scene was treated still no answers .
I am not making any conclusions . Just sayin that EP were still entering a crime scene and even if they assumed murder suicide it was still murder and should have been treated as such . No excuses . None .
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Like I said I am always asking questions . But there are definitely things in that room that don't make sense
Let's just take the initial call IF jeremy is innocent he could have assumed that his father meant Sheila because of her illness and yet there is June with all that blood on her nightdress and we don't really know the whole sequence of what happened to this day ? Who fought who? Why was Sheila's bed not slept in? Why were nevilles slippers in her room ? Was she bible reading in the bed with June? Was June's nightdress tested ? Why was Anne allowed to take things away from the crime scene ? Who's blood was on the bedroom floor? Why did one of the forensic tests say they could be a mixture of animal blood and human blood on the silencer ?
All this time and because of the way the crime scene was treated still no answers .
I am not making any conclusions . Just sayin that EP were still entering a crime scene and even if they assumed murder suicide it was still murder and should have been treated as such . No excuses . None .
That is not the purpose of a armed response unit. Their purpose is to make the scene safe and do whatever is necessary to do that. Tiptoeing around the property to preserve it, isn't their primary aim. They are there to make sure the person with the gun is disarmed and unable to hurt anyone else.
Sheila's bed was not entirely made as if no one had slept in it. No idea why Nevill' slippers were in Sheila's room but I have put forward suggestions. Ann, didn't take anything away from the crime scene, when the keys were handed back, it was no longer a crime scene.The reason for the suggestion of animal blood is because Sheila's blood contains the enzyme AK1 which is also found in rabbits.
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That is not the purpose of a armed response unit. Their purpose is to make the scene safe and do whatever is necessary to do that. Tiptoeing around the property to preserve it, isn't their primary aim. They are there to make sure the person with the gun is disarmed and unable to hurt anyone else.
Sheila's bed was not entirely made as if no one had slept in it. No idea why Nevill' slippers were in Sheila's room but I have put forward suggestions. Ann, didn't take anything away from the crime scene, when the keys were handed back, it was no longer a crime scene.The reason for the suggestion of animal blood is because Sheila's blood contains the enzyme AK1 which is also found in rabbits.
I stand corrected about the crime scene but I was trying to say it was not a crime scene for long enough . She removed clothes that were blood stained . They removed the sound moderator whereas when they found it they should have called the police straight away.
If there had have been four murders in any other circumstances it would have taken days and days to investigate that crime scene , to me what they did was an insult to the family whoever the perpetrator was.
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Good questions that deserve answers,though nobody can answer what went on between who inside the farmhouse. Not even EP.
I agree that whatever happened,it was still " mass murder " and should have been treated as such. Questioning in such cases today is a Hell of a lot different as we saw in a programme this week------with not one relative in sight.
Obviously June's nightdress wasn't tested,or it would have been discussed. All we've heard about June's blood is that it was dripped around where Sheila lay and that trails of it were found to be on the carpet in front/beneath a window-----possibly the Bible ?
Unless extensive tests were carried out on the rifle blood,it could have belonged to a rabbit as their blood is on a par with human blood.
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Like I said I am always asking questions . But there are definitely things in that room that don't make sense
Let's just take the initial call IF jeremy is innocent he could have assumed that his father meant Sheila because of her illness and yet there is June with all that blood on her nightdress and we don't really know the whole sequence of what happened to this day ? Who fought who? Why was Sheila's bed not slept in? Why were nevilles slippers in her room ? Was she bible reading in the bed with June? Was June's nightdress tested ? Why was Anne allowed to take things away from the crime scene ? Who's blood was on the bedroom floor? Why did one of the forensic tests say they could be a mixture of animal blood and human blood on the silencer ?
All this time and because of the way the crime scene was treated still no answers .
I am not making any conclusions . Just sayin that EP were still entering a crime scene and even if they assumed murder suicide it was still murder and should have been treated as such . No excuses . None .
The only answer I can give is that Jeremy controlled their thought processes -and as a result, their actions- from the word go. I'm not suggesting that there was anything 'supernatural' about what he did, but in the way that children listen to and believe what parents tell them, in the way children listen to what their teachers tell them, in the way juniors, in whatever trade or profession -generally- listen to what their seniors tell them, we ALL listen to the person who has more knowledge, than do we, of a given situation. Jeremy, during the time he was A) on the phone B) standing outside WHF with them, had complete control of the conversation. They saw, when they eventually went in, the picture he had painted for them to see. Yes, they saw murder, but they also saw that the person who'd committed those murders had taken her own life. Why WOULD they look down drains for signs of blood? Why WOULD they test night clothes for blood? They KNEW what had happened because Jeremy, the only member of the family who wasn't dead, told them. Rightly or wrongly, I will never believe, despite police training, that Jeremy's information wasn't uppermost and paramount in their thoughts when they went into the farmhouse. Those words may have blinded them to the point where they missed things. It would probably have taken some time before any thoughts of their own overrode what he'd said.
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I stand corrected about the crime scene but I was trying to say it was not a crime scene for long enough . She removed clothes that were blood stained . They removed the sound moderator whereas when they found it they should have called the police straight away.
If there had have been four murders in any other circumstances it would have taken days and days to investigate that crime scene , to me what they did was an insult to the family whoever the perpetrator was.
Well, I agree about the SM and yu already know I don't buy the whole silencer argument. There is defo something odd about that - however, that doesn't mean I am right.
I guess we are looking at this in hindsight over 30 years on. However, some people think EP got it right the first time (not me of course) so, did they do such a bad job in the early stages? ???
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The only answer I can give is that Jeremy controlled their thought processes -and as a result, their actions- from the word go. I'm not suggesting that there was anything 'supernatural' about what he did, but in the way that children listen to and believe what parents tell them, in the way children listen to what their teachers tell them, in the way juniors, in whatever trade or profession -generally- listen to what their seniors tell them, we ALL listen to the person who has more knowledge, than do we, of a given situation. Jeremy, during the time he was A) on the phone B) standing outside WHF with them, had complete control of the conversation. They saw, when they eventually went in, the picture he had painted for them to see. Yes, they saw murder, but they also saw that the person who'd committed those murders had taken her own life. Why WOULD they look down drains for signs of blood? Why WOULD they test night clothes for blood? They KNEW what had happened because Jeremy, the only member of the family who wasn't dead, told them. Rightly or wrongly, I will never believe, despite police training, that Jeremy's information wasn't uppermost and paramount in their thoughts when they went into the farmhouse. Those words may have blinded them to the point where they missed things. It would probably have taken some time before any thoughts of their own overrode what he'd said.
A very risky strategy to think that a young man who had only committed a minor crime for which at that time he had not been convicted would be able to hoodwink several very experienced officers .
And in fact what he told them was true?
She did suffer from the illness he described
She had had violent outbursts before
She had been around guns all her life
He did not actually have to lie to them did he?
I wonder how he thought he would know exactly what the police reaction would be to what he said?
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It's all a bit deja vous and groundhog day all rolled into one. ::)
Most of the worst miscarriages of justice that occurred happened in the 80's, Bambers case is just one of many, the cops and CPS in that era were at their worst ever!
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.The reason for the suggestion of animal blood is because Sheila's blood contains the enzyme AK1 which is also found in rabbits.
You forgot to mention that the blood expert found two lots of animal blood (potentially the AK/1 enzyme in each case) inside the silencer but deliberately omitted this from his final report! Had this been acknowledged at the time of the 1986 trial, and the 2002 appeal, it would have established there was only a one in three chance that the AK/1 result had come from Sheila, whereas because of the deliberate omission and deception mentioned the blood expert was misleadingly able to say that the four blood group results were unique to Sheila Caffell, when if the truth be known it was far from it! The other three results (A, EAP BA, and HP 2-1) were not unique to Sheila Caffell at all! Since, June, Sheila, and an intimate mixture of June and Neville Bambers blood could all have been the source of this type of blood group activity! The jury were duped by the blood experts findings, it's as simple as this or that!!
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The only answer I can give is that Jeremy controlled their thought processes -and as a result, their actions- from the word go. I'm not suggesting that there was anything 'supernatural' about what he did, but in the way that children listen to and believe what parents tell them, in the way children listen to what their teachers tell them, in the way juniors, in whatever trade or profession -generally- listen to what their seniors tell them, we ALL listen to the person who has more knowledge, than do we, of a given situation. Jeremy, during the time he was A) on the phone B) standing outside WHF with them, had complete control of the conversation. They saw, when they eventually went in, the picture he had painted for them to see. Yes, they saw murder, but they also saw that the person who'd committed those murders had taken her own life. Why WOULD they look down drains for signs of blood? Why WOULD they test night clothes for blood? They KNEW what had happened because Jeremy, the only member of the family who wasn't dead, told them. Rightly or wrongly, I will never believe, despite police training, that Jeremy's information wasn't uppermost and paramount in their thoughts when they went into the farmhouse. Those words may have blinded them to the point where they missed things. It would probably have taken some time before any thoughts of their own overrode what he'd said.
Garbage! How can anybody say that Jeremy Bamber controlled their thought processes, the guy was dyslexic, and could hardly put basic logic to work when I first met him! How did he make the police pass radio messages that two bodies were dead upon entry to the kitchen, and that there were only three bodies upstairs by 8.10am? How did he mind control senior officers into staging Sheila Caffells death scene on the bedroom floor? How did he mind control the cops forcing them to bring the only rifle found upstairs which was resting against a first floor box room window, and force the cops using telepathy and get them to present Sheila's Caffells death as a suicide which the cops know was not a suicide? Please tell me and everybody else how did Jeremy use his powerful mind control skills and force cops to tamper with one of the two bullets used in the shooting of his sister, so that it could be presented that the family owned anshuzt rifle had supposedly fired both shots in her throat!
Mind control, your having a laugh, surely...
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A very risky strategy to think that a young man who had only committed a minor crime for which at that time he had not been convicted would be able to hoodwink several very experienced officers .
And in fact what he told them was true?
She did suffer from the illness he described
She had had violent outbursts before
She had been around guns all her life
He did not actually have to lie to them did he?
I wonder how he thought he would know exactly what the police reaction would be to what he said?
OK. It COULD be argued that Jeremy wasn't responsible for how his words were heard.
I would say that what he told them was probably embellished.
No doubting she was ill.
How do each of us hear "violent"?
Being around guns doesn't mean enough proficiency to kill 4 people and commit suicide.
He didn't have to lie. There was some truth in what he said. How much was truth? How much was stretched?
The police had no other frame of reference other than that given them by Jeremy. The had no comparisons.
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Garbage! How can anybody say that Jeremy Bamber controlled their thought processes, the guy was dyslexic, and could hardly put basic logic to work when I first met him! How did he make the police pass radio messages that two bodies were dead upon entry to the kitchen, and that there were only three bodies upstairs by 8.10am? How did he mind control senior officers into staging Sheila Caffells death scene on the bedroom floor? How did he mind control the cops forcing them to bring the only rifle found upstairs which was resting against a first floor box room window, and force the cops using telepathy and get them to present Sheila's Caffells death as a suicide which the cops know was not a suicide? Please tell me and everybody else how did Jeremy use his powerful mind control skills and force cops to tamper with one of the two bullets used in the shooting of his sister, so that it could be presented that the family owned anshuzt rifle had supposedly fired both shots in her throat!
Mind control, your having a laugh, surely...
If you'd said it was rubbish for any other reason, I MIGHT have accepted it. I know dyslexic people who have degrees. Dyslexic means neither dumb nor thick. I means word blind. Jeremy didn't have to write down anything for the police OTHER than the diagram of the house and that didn't suggest dyslexia. He didn't have to use 'mind skills' -just as well as you imply he didn't have any- he was as fluent with words as I imagine you are.
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Being around guns doesn't mean enough proficiency to kill 4 people and commit suicide.
He didn't have to lie. There was some truth in what he said. How much was truth? How much was stretched?
The police had no other frame of reference other than that given them by Jeremy. The had no comparisons.
She did not kill the other four victims proficiently, Neville Bamber had to be shot 7 times, June Bamber had to be shot 7 times! She shot one of her son's (Daniel) 5 times in the head, and her other son (Nicholas) 3 times in the headv- how can this be described as being a proficient way to kill four people?
What your suggesting beggars belief, and in no way can be true!
These four victims died as a result of 'overkill', not because anybody was proficient in using a gun!
As for the police having no their frame of reference, their might be an element of truth in this, because it's not every day that such a huge catelogs of errors are made during the same operation, and some of the most experienced senior officers in the force are there when these mistakes are made! It's little wonder they I stated the cover up on such a huge scale when the reputations and futures of these big wigs was being out on the link Jeremy Bamber did not shoot his sister with a cop gun in the kitchen, a cop did - there exists an officers report confirming this shooting incident in the kitchen upon entry there by the cop who shot her (reference 1612)! Find the report, read it's contents, and then you'll see that Sheila was alive and unwounded by the time cops set off to enter the farmhouse! Also, cops only set off to enter the farmhouse after Sheila was coaxed into presenting the anshuzt rifle she had been using at a first floor box room window! Her placing that rifle there was the green light for the firearm officers to go in and bring the seige to an end!
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She did not kill the other four victims proficiently, Neville Bamber had to be shot 7 times, June Bamber had to be shot 7 times! She shot one of her son's (Daniel) 5 times in the head, and her other son (Nicholas) 3 times in the headv- how can this be described as being a proficient way to kill four people?
What your suggesting beggars belief, and in no way can be true!
These four victims died as a result of 'overkill', not because anybody was proficient in using a gun!
As for the police having no their frame of reference, their might be an element of truth in this, because it's not every day that such a huge catelogs of errors are made during the same operation, and some of the most experienced senior officers in the force are there when these mistakes are made! It's little wonder they I stated the cover up on such a huge scale when the reputations and futures of these big wigs was being out on the link Jeremy Bamber did not shoot his sister with a cop gun in the kitchen, a cop did - there exists an officers report confirming this shooting incident in the kitchen upon entry there by the cop who shot her (reference 1612)! Find the report, read it's contents, and then you'll see that Sheila was alive and unwounded by the time cops set off to enter the farmhouse! Also, cops only set off to enter the farmhouse after Sheila was coaxed into presenting the anshuzt rifle she had been using at a first floor box room window! Her placing that rifle there was the green light for the firearm officers to go in and bring the seige to an end!
So Jeremy was clever enough to know that someone with no experience of guns/shooting would never manage a clean kill 4 times.
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If you'd said it was rubbish for any other reason, I MIGHT have accepted it. I know dyslexic people who have degrees. Dyslexic means neither dumb nor thick. I means word blind. Jeremy didn't have to write down anything for the police OTHER than the diagram of the house and that didn't suggest dyslexia. He didn't have to use 'mind skills' -just as well as you imply he didn't have any- he was as fluent with words as I imagine you are.
No, he wasn't, although he is now as a result of all the educational training he has received whilst being incarcerated during the past 32 years! He was a thick bastard in the mid to late 1980's like many of us who arrived at HMP Full Sutton when it first opened! Many of us in there during the first two years after it opened were thick as planks, most could not read and write, hence why many resorted to violence in the crimes they committed! Don-t try to educate me about what Bamber, others and myself were like back then in the mid to late 1980's, we were all regarded as incorrigible criminals who could never be rehabilitated! But do you know what many of us got educated there, the staff treated us with respect, almost everybody ended up taking university courses! We learnt how to think, how to talk, how to read, how to write, and now we are all different, at least I'd like to think we are! There is no wayJeremy Bamber could have controlled the minds of the police at the scene, or there afterwards, the cops themselves were and are responsible for all the wrong doings they themselves got up to in his prosecution! Today, Jeremy is very well educated, he has great skills in communication, he thinks logically, He can write well, he is not afraid to speak out when an injustice occurs or has occurred!
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No, he wasn't, although he is now as a result of all the educational training he has received whilst being incarcerated during the past 32 years! He was a thick bastard in the mid to late 1980's like many of us who arrived at HMP Full Sutton when it first opened! Many of us in there during the first two years after it opened were thick as planks, most could not read and write, hence why many resorted to violence in the crimes they committed! Don-t try to educate me about what Bamber, others and myself were like back then in the mid to late 1980's, we were all regarded as incorrigible criminals who could never be rehabilitated! But do you know what many of us got educated there, the staff treated us with respect, almost everybody ended up taking university courses! We learnt how to think, how to talk, how to read, how to write, and now we are all different, at least I'd like to think we are! There is no wayJeremy Bamber could have controlled the minds of the police at the scene, or there afterwards, the cops themselves were and are responsible for all the wrong doings they themselves got up to in his prosecution! Today, Jeremy is very well educated, he has great skills in communication, he thinks logically, He can write well, he is not afraid to speak out when an injustice occurs or has occurred!
I might have believed that had the moron you present him as being back then hadn't managed to get himself out to OZ, not once, but twice, and seems to have had little problem. There don't seem to be any stories of how he was conned or scammed during these jaunts. Despite how you present him, Jeremy had no problems with talking the talk or walking the walk. There appears to be no evidence forthcoming, from his teachers and/or fellow students, that he was in any way having difficulties with his written work. I do appreciate, though, that he'd probably have found himself entirely out of his depth in prison. He probably was bright enough to leave it to those who knew the ropes before he put his head above the parapet.
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He certainly knows now not to take people at face value.
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He certainly knows now not to take people at face value.
Perhaps it's because he knows that he can't be, either.
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Perhaps it's because he knows that he can't be, either.
We'll see,eh ?
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We'll see,eh ?
We've all been waiting 30+ years. I guess another 30 and many of us will be gone. Jeremy will be in his 80's.
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So Jeremy was clever enough to know that someone with no experience of guns/shooting would never manage a clean kill 4 times.
But stupid enough to put the silencer away with blood on it?
And stupid enough to tell his girlfriend ?,
And stupid enough not to act "correctly " after the funeral.
So is he clever or stupid?
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But stupid enough to put the silencer away with blood on it?
And stupid enough to tell his girlfriend ?,
And stupid enough not to act "correctly " after the funeral.
So is he clever or stupid?
But you have the luxury of hindsight.
He MAY have thought he'd removed all traces of blood from it.
Was it stupid to tell Julie, OR did he assume her a willing accomplice? Did he ASK?
By the funeral, I suspect, with the amount of tranquillisers and alcohol he'd allegedly taken, PLUS a feeling that he was home and dry, his guard would have come down.
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But you have the luxury of hindsight.
He MAY have thought he'd removed all traces of blood from it.
Was it stupid to tell Julie, OR did he assume her a willing accomplice? Did he ASK?
By the funeral, I suspect, with the amount of tranquillisers and alcohol he'd allegedly taken, PLUS a feeling that he was home and dry, his guard would have come down.
And your points are assumption .
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Back to the rifle in the window . Any idea what the object on the wall to the right of the window is ?
And mike is the only one to make any suggestions about why there is a difference on what is on the chair in the photos
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Dosadvantages in Julie single handedly tryiing to frame an innocent Bamber:
There was no evidence against Bamber. He was innocent.
She was 20 & had never attempted anything like this.
She would be charged by the police. When caught lying.
Having a criminal record may effect her teaching career.
To make Bamber look bad, she had to implicate herself in the caravan break in. Effecting her teaching career ?
Her own 1984 crime may come to light. Effecting her teaching career ?
There was no financial reward in approaching the police.
It shows she was upset about splitting up with Bamber.
She would be on her own. No other witnesses could support her claims.
Bamber would have the last laugh. When Julie was exposed.
She would have to follow through her approach. Right through to the ultimate (unlikely) conviction. Lying to the world.
It would show she was vindictive. Once exposed.
She may quickly wilt under pressure. This is something she had never attempted before, and a massive long term lie. So why bother in the first place ?
It would show she had no sympathy for a grieving man. Once exposed.
It would show how upset she was that she was no longer with Bamber. Once exposed.
It would show she was stupid. Once exposed.
An approach may ultimately be time consuming. Depending on her success. Taking up months or years of her life. Effecting her second degree and teaching career.
It would be her word against Bamber's. For the last month the police had treated it as murder/suicide, which was correct as she knew he was innocent.
She will not know the details of the forensic evidence. It may show Sheila was the killer. Which would not be surprising as Bamber was innocent.
It would be bringing other people into this, such the deceased grieving relatives and her own friends and relatives.
She may feel bad after her initial approach. But is coming clean now an option ?
She had already given a WS and gone around with Bamber for one month. The police will know she had approached them after she split with Bamber.
She was attempting to reverse a decision announced in the media, which the police were in public sticking to - murder/suicide. One month after the massacre.
Her approach may only last a few minutes. Experienced police officers may dismiss it, after all Bamber was innocent. Bamber may not even find out about Julie's attempt for revenge.
If an unsuccessful police approach became news in the media, she would forever be looked upon as a heartless and lying woman. Friends and relatives may desert her.
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Back to the rifle in the window . Any idea what the object on the wall to the right of the window is ?
And mike is the only one to make any suggestions about why there is a difference on what is on the chair in the photos
Any ideas on the objective of the thread . .
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And your points are assumption .
you asked a question -if and why he may have done certain things- I answered it.
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Back to the rifle in the window . Any idea what the object on the wall to the right of the window is ?
And mike is the only one to make any suggestions about why there is a difference on what is on the chair in the photos
I don't know.Is it another door ? I can see what looks like a " hook " at the top of the dark object,so something hanging down ? I noticed,also, an object higher up to the right of the window,perhaps something to stop the top of the window going any lower,or if one of the sash cords is dodgy ?
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So Jeremy was clever enough to know that someone with no experience of guns/shooting would never manage a clean kill 4 times.
Jeremy didn't kill any of the five victims, Sheila shot the other four, and cops shot her, then cops faked her death as a suicide! You can keep believing that Jeremy shot and killed his sister and staged her body with the rifle from the box room window on the main bedroom floor, but the evidence when analysed accurately paints a completely different picture to your imaginations!
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I might have believed that had the moron you present him as being back then hadn't managed to get himself out to OZ, not once, but twice, and seems to have had little problem. There don't seem to be any stories of how he was conned or scammed during these jaunts. Despite how you present him, Jeremy had no problems with talking the talk or walking the walk. There appears to be no evidence forthcoming, from his teachers and/or fellow students, that he was in any way having difficulties with his written work. I do appreciate, though, that he'd probably have found himself entirely out of his depth in prison. He probably was bright enough to leave it to those who knew the ropes before he put his head above the parapet.
You are making things up in your sorry mind to try and present him as the killer, god help anyone on trial accused of something they did not do and somebody like you was on the jury! Your a supporter of police and CPS corruption and dishonesty! Your a really sad individual!
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Miscarriages of justices occur because of brainwashed members of the public who think the sun shines out of the arses of corrupt cops and dishonest CPS...
Criminals the lot of 'em, dishonest crooks who make lies up, who kill people, and try to take public credit for behaving corruptly and dishonestly! Oh, and they get promoted quicker, the more lies they tell and the more they fabricate! There is surely places in hell for these despicable individuals!
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I will refuse to acknowledge or comment any further with brainwashed individuals who believe everything a crooked cop and dishonest CPS official says!
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You are making things up in your sorry mind to try and present him as the killer, god help anyone on trial accused of something they did not do and somebody like you was on the jury! Your a supporter of police and CPS corruption and dishonesty! Your a really sad individual!
It is irrelevant what Jeremy's personality is perceived to be as there are so many varying reports and the police can chose which ones to use . I am in correspondence with someone who wishes they were called because they would give a different picture.
But the case should not be based on that anyway .
It should be on facts and experts interpretation of those facts.
And working out who is telling the truth .
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The truth is out there, cops pronounced Sheila's death downstairs in the kitchen, even though later on she ended up dead on the main bedroom floor! They relied on 'familiars' to stage manage Sheila Caffells death scene on the main bedroom floor, and then got a second group of SOCO to photograph the main bedroom scene after 10 am and present a case for Sheila's body having remained undisturbed during the previous two and a half hours! The problem with this, was that cops brought the anshuzt rifle from a first floor box room window and placed it with Sheila's body on the floor in the main bedroom! How any public moron cannot see or work out that this means cops staged Sheila's death scene on the bedroom floor beggars belief! Are members of the public really that thick?
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You are making things up in your sorry mind to try and present him as the killer, god help anyone on trial accused of something they did not do and somebody like you was on the jury! Your a supporter of police and CPS corruption and dishonesty! Your a really sad individual!
According to you. However, the Jeremy you present him as being is completely at odds with the Jeremy he presents himself as being, and indeed, how others appear to experience him as being. As for whether I support "police and CPS corruption and dishonesty" -and as I don't know anything about the CPS so I'm not qualified to pass opinion- no more so than I support individual or any corporate corruption and dishonesty. I do accept, however, that it's present...................but just because it's present in some quarters, isn't an indication that it's present everywhere, as you seem to be implying.
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Having been a victim of crime recently also sometimes the criminals are not caught and so of course I do consider that to be a problem . I am not liberal in my general view of crime , not at all .
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When I met Jeremy in 1989, he was as thick as a plank of wood, and had little knowledge of what the police, the CPS, and his relatives had done to him! He is a totally different person now, articulate, confident, well spoken, kind, considerate, if he had been so articulate, confident, well spoken, kind and considerate back in the late 1980's why would he seek somebody like me out and get me involved in trying to prove and establish his innocence in his case?
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When I met Jeremy in 1989, he was as thick as a plank of wood, and had little knowledge of what the police, the CPS, and his relatives had done to him! He is a totally different person now, articulate, confident, well spoken, kind, considerate, if he had been so articulate, confident, well spoken, kind and considerate back in the late 1980's why would he seek somebody like me out and get me involved in trying to prove and establish his innocence in his case?
I concur that he'd have been ignorant of the prison system but it wouldn't have negated his upbringing and education which were designed to produce an articulate and well spoken person.
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Having been a victim of crime recently also sometimes the criminals are not caught and so of course I do consider that to be a problem . I am not liberal in my general view of crime , not at all .
Yes, I understand what it's like to be a victim of recent crime, I have had people trying to kill me, cops receiving telephone messages from relatives of the suspects saying that their husband and others are presently dealing with me on a nearby playing field, and I got slashed on one occasion requiring 22 stitches to the right hand side of my head and face, and I was struck 10 times with a baseball bat by neighbours and left for dead, unconscious in a hedgerow of a field, and cops entered my house with tasers drawn ready to zap me if they saw me, when all the while I was unconscious at the edge of a nearby field! Cops in South Yorkshire are vile evil scumbags criminals in uniform, and so are the crooked South Yorkshire CPS! My turn is coming though, as they will find out in the coming days! Criminals who attacked me think that have got away with it at the moment, but as I say steps are being taken to put things right! I do not need lecturing about criminals who get away with committing criminal offences, I have had a belly full of these criminals most of who are the police themselves and the dishonest and crooked CPS! Like bent cops who falsify the contents of witness statements either in their own names, or paraphrased in the name of somebody else, the crooked CPS cannot be prosecuted for telling lies, or fabricating any part of its case they bring against anybody! This dishonesty has got to stop and every single one of these crooked bastards needs to be prosecuted, convicted and given terms of life imprisonment, where life means life, with no prospect of release on parole license! It ain't going to happen but it should!
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I concur that he'd have been ignorant of the prison system but it wouldn't have negated his upbringing and education which were designed to produce an articulate and well spoken person.
You have got it wrong, Jeremy was basically fucking thick as pig shit not articulate, and certainly not well educated! What qualifications did he have by that stage?
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You have got it wrong, Jeremy was basically fucking thick as pig shit not articulate, and certainly not well educated! What qualifications did he have by that stage?
Say that to others who were educated at Greshams. It's not Gresham's fault if Jeremy chose not to work. He had the same opportunity as his fellow pupils. Has there been any proof, from his teachers/house master/head/fellow pupils that Jeremy was thick? I HAVE seen idiots who've been to public school but it could NEVER be said that they weren't articulate.
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Say that to others who were educated at Greshams. It's not Gresham's fault if Jeremy chose not to work. He had the same opportunity as his fellow pupils. Has there been any proof, from his teachers/house master/head/fellow pupils that Jeremy was thick? I HAVE seen idiots who've been to public school but it could NEVER be said that they weren't articulate.
I thought it was said that he had to re take his exams and came out with hardly any qualifications . But he was good at woodwork allegedly .
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You have got it wrong, Jeremy was basically fucking thick as pig shit not articulate, and certainly not well educated! What qualifications did he have by that stage?
If Jeremy Bamber was as intellectual and intelligent as your trying to make out, why would he have embarked on trying to kill three generations of his own extended family and hope to be able to get away with it? It's all nonsense what your alleging, you don't have a clue regarding the things your talking about! How the xxxx could Jeremy Bamber control the xxxxxxx dishonest actions in his case of the corrupt and dishonest police and CPS? Sheila was dead downstairs, she was dead upstairs on the bed, she was dead on the bedroom floor! Oh, and Jeremy was able to influence all of this using his superior mind control - yeah, of course he did!
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If Jeremy Bamber was as intellectual and intelligent as your trying to make out, why would he have embarked on trying to kill three generations of his own extended family and hope to be able to get away with it? It's all nonsense what your alleging, you don't have a clue regarding the things your talking about! How the xxxx could Jeremy Bamber control the xxxxxxxx dishonest actions in his case of the corrupt and dishonest police and CPS? Sheila was dead downstairs, she was dead upstairs on the bed, she was dead on the bedroom floor! Oh, and Jeremy was able to influence all of this using his superior mind control - yeah, of course he did!
Yes motive is one of the criteria that I don't get . He had a comfortable life with good prospects as far as I can see.
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Say that to others who were educated at Greshams. It's not Gresham's fault if Jeremy chose not to work. He had the same opportunity as his fellow pupils. Has there been any proof, from his teachers/house master/head/fellow pupils that Jeremy was thick? I HAVE seen idiots who've been to public school but it could NEVER be said that they weren't articulate.
Take it from me Jeremy was not that bright, which is one of the reasons which endeared me to him, I wanted to help if I could, his solicitors and barrister had abandoned him, he was at his wits end, why shouldn't someone like me not want to help him if I could?
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Yes motive is one of the criteria that I don't get . He had a comfortable life with good prospects as far as I can see.
Jan, it's all relative. From where I was in 1985 he had a wonderful life. I'll bet his working week on the farm was probably little more than Tuesday to Thursday so he could enjoy the long weekends. However, he MAY have met others who were wealthier and felt hard done by in comparison.
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And I promised him, that if I could that I would most definitely help him, providing he told me the truth regarding anything and everything I might choose to ask of him!
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Take it from me Jeremy was not that bright, which is one of the reasons which endeared me to him, I wanted to help if I could, his solicitors and barrister had abandoned him, he was at his wits end, why shouldn't someone like me not want to help him if I could?
Mike, I imagine he'd have felt lost. I'm certain that what intellect he had left him when he found himself in prison, somewhere that, never in a million years did he ever think to find himself. I find it strange that, if they believed him innocent, his solicitors and barrister abandoned him but I understand that he'd have felt abandoned.
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And I promised him, that if I could that I would most definitely help him, providing he told me the truth regarding anything and everything I might choose to ask of him!
In all the time I spent incarcerated with Jeremy at HMP Full Sutton, and the years I visited him as his McKensie man, he never once told me anything which caused me concern, sufficient enough to warrant me disassociating myself from him and his cause, except on one occasion where I said to him that I thought his sister might have had an accomplice! When he asked me who that might be, and I told him I thought that he could have been his sister's accomplice, Jeremy said to me, 'You clever Bastard'...
Only then did I think that Jeremy might have encouraged his sister to shoot her family!
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In all the time I spent incarcerated with Jeremy at HMP Full Sutton, and the years I visited him as his McKensie man, he never once told me anything which caused me concern, sufficient enough to warrant me disassociating myself from him and his cause, except on one occasion where I said to him that I thought his sister might have had an accomplice! When he asked me who that might be, and I told him I thought that he could have been his sister's accomplice, Jeremy said to me, 'You clever Bastard'...
Only then did I think that Jeremy might have encouraged his sister to shoot her family!
Go on.....................
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In all the time I spent incarcerated with Jeremy at HMP Full Sutton, and the years I visited him as his McKensie man, he never once told me anything which caused me concern, sufficient enough to warrant me disassociating myself from him and his cause, except on one occasion where I said to him that I thought his sister might have had an accomplice! When he asked me who that might be, and I told him I thought that he could have been his sister's accomplice, Jeremy said to me, 'You clever Bastard'...
Only then did I think that Jeremy might have encouraged his sister to shoot her family!
Yet, despite this belief or idea of mine, I never once suspected and still do not suspect that Jeremy was there inside the farmhouse when any of the four victims that got shot by Sheila, or at the time Sheila herself got shot, that Jeremy had been there inside the farmhouse physically encouraging his sister to shoot and kill the others! I am totally convinced that he had nothing whatsoever to do with Sheila's own purported death downstairs in the kitchen, or her death upstairs on the bed, or the bedroom floor!
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Yet, despite this belief or idea of mine, I never once suspected and still do not suspect that Jeremy was there inside the farmhouse when any of the four victims that got shot by Sheila, or at the time Sheila herself got shot, that Jeremy had been there inside the farmhouse physically encouraging his sister to shoot and kill the others! I am totally convinced that he had nothing whatsoever to do with Sheila's own purported death downstairs in the kitchen, or her death upstairs on the bed, or the bedroom floor!
That's a disappointment. To make any sort of sense to me I'm afraid you'll need to suspend at least part of that belief. Shall we say adjust your thinking? Not easy with a long held one.
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Go on.....................
But I was influenced by the fact that June Bamber had once told her sister Pamela Boutflour, that Jeremy had been teaching Sheila how to load and fire the anshuzt rifle, and that during the last afternoon on this earth Sheila had taken some sandwiches to the field where Jeremy had been working the farm tractor and trailor! According to Jeremy she had one of her son's with her at the time, the favoured one, 'Nicholas'! She spent about half an hour talking to Jeremy there in the field at that time, although I never enquired about what they talked about together on that occasion..
I had my ideas, but I never put these to Jeremy at all, I bided my time, keeping my thoughts to myself, building up a picture in my mind's eye about what they could or might have talked about on that occasion! Then there surfaced the coded suicide note found on the bedside cabinet! My interpretation included the fact that Sheila must give Jeremy a call, after this, that and the other..
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But I was influenced by the fact that June Bamber had once told her sister Pamela Boutflour, that Jeremy had been teaching Sheila how to load and fire the anshuzt rifle, and that during the last afternoon on this earth Sheila had taken some sandwiches to the field where Jeremy had been working the farm tractor and trailor! According to Jeremy she had one of her son's with her at the time, the favoured one, 'Nicholas'! She spent about half an hour talking to Jeremy there in the field at that time, although I never enquired about what they talked about together on that occasion..
I had my ideas, but I never put these to Jeremy at all, I bided my time, keeping my thoughts to myself, building up a picture in my mind's eye about what they could or might have talked about on that occasion! Then there surfaced the coded suicide note found on the bedside cabinet! My interpretation included the fact that Sheila must give Jeremy a call, after this, that and the other..
I am now not even sure that the coded note, was in fact the suicide note referred to by the police, exhibit DRH/42, since I am led to believe another note was seized! Jeremy himself at one time suspected the handwritten note in the folded pages of the Bible was the suicide note, entitled 'Love one another'...
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But I was influenced by the fact that June Bamber had once told her sister Pamela Boutflour, that Jeremy had been teaching Sheila how to load and fire the anshuzt rifle, and that during the last afternoon on this earth Sheila had taken some sandwiches to the field where Jeremy had been working the farm tractor and trailor! According to Jeremy she had one of her son's with her at the time, the favoured one, 'Nicholas'! She spent about half an hour talking to Jeremy there in the field at that time, although I never enquired about what they talked about together on that occasion..
I had my ideas, but I never put these to Jeremy at all, I bided my time, keeping my thoughts to myself, building up a picture in my mind's eye about what they could or might have talked about on that occasion! Then there surfaced the coded suicide note found on the bedside cabinet! My interpretation included the fact that Sheila must give Jeremy a call, after this, that and the other..
Perhaps, if you can focus on that something might come back to you?
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I am now not even sure that the coded note, was in fact the suicide note referred to by the police, exhibit DRH/42, since I am led to believe another note was seized! Jeremy himself at one time suspected the handwritten note in the folded pages of the Bible was the suicide note, entitled 'Love one another'...
I'd feel far more inclined to believe that a 'suicide' note might have been concocted by a brother and sister planning some sort of revenge on, what they saw as, controlling parents, than believe it to be the hand of a psychotic.
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I am now not even sure that the coded note, was in fact the suicide note referred to by the police, exhibit DRH/42, since I am led to believe another note was seized! Jeremy himself at one time suspected the handwritten note in the folded pages of the Bible was the suicide note, entitled 'Love one another'...
when trying to come to terms with the meaning and purpose of the aforementioned coded note, I was mindful of DCI 'Taff' Jones belief, that Sheila had frogmarched Neville Bamber downstairs at the point of a gun and got him to make a call to Jeremy at his cottage in Goldhanger, to try and lure Jeremy to the farmhouse so that she could kill him as well!
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when trying to come to terms with the meaning and purpose of the aforementioned coded note, I was mindful of DCI 'Taff' Jones belief, that Sheila had frogmarched Neville Bamber downstairs at the point of a gun and got him to make a call to Jeremy at his cottage in Goldhanger, to try and lure Jeremy to the farmhouse so that she could kill him as well!
Marks made on the back of Neville Bambers neck, were believed by Taff Jones to have been made by the muzzle end of the guns barrel minus it's silencer!
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when trying to come to terms with the meaning and purpose of the aforementioned coded note, I was mindful of DCI 'Taff' Jones belief, that Sheila had frogmarched Neville Bamber downstairs at the point of a gun and got him to make a call to Jeremy at his cottage in Goldhanger, to try and lure Jeremy to the farmhouse so that she could kill him as well!
But if Jeremy had been with Sheila when they were all killed?.............................
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He'd probably still have got the blame. ::)
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Marks made on the back of Neville Bambers neck, were believed by Taff Jones to have been made by the muzzle end of the guns barrel minus it's silencer!
So, if true there was no silencer fitted to the muzzle end of the rifle when Sheila had frog marched Neville downstairs at gun point -
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So, if true there was no silencer fitted to the muzzle end of the rifle when Sheila had frog marched Neville downstairs at gun point -
. Mike in the archive crime scene photos page 3 post 39 is a comparison of how the gun is moved in the pictures . Do you still have the original photos ?
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. Mike in the archive crime scene photos page 3 post 39 is a comparison of how the gun is moved in the pictures . Do you still have the original photos ?
Only copies of the originals!
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Only copies of the originals!
I don't take shit from any body convicted of any crime they claim they did not do!
These people have to be totally honest with me! I can't help anybody who thinks they can fill me with bullshit and lies, and I go out of my way to ensure that those requesting my help because they have got nobody else to turn to, that they must be honest with me at all times! This approach of mine has proved successful and beneficial to many people I have been able to help, but by the same token it has been the undoing of many others, because I do not suffer fools gladly, and I do not want to help anybody who claims innocence when if the truth be known, they are as guilty as xxxx!
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I don't take shit from any body convicted of any crime they claim they did not do!
These people have to be totally honest with me! I can't help anybody who thinks they can fill me with bullshit and lies, and I go out of my way to ensure that those requesting my help because they have got nobody else to turn to, that they must be honest with me at all times! This approach of mine has proved successful and beneficial to many people I have been able to help, but by the same token it has been the undoing of many others, because I do not suffer fools gladly, and I do not want to help anybody who claims innocence when if the truth be known, they are as guilty as fuck!
I can tell you all now with 100% certainty, that Jeremy Bamber was not inside the farmhouse when any of the five victims were shot and killed! But I have reservations about him showing his sister how to load bullets into the family owned anshuzt rifle and fire it! Then again, they lived on a farm where as everyone is surely aware, there is a need for pest and vermin control, so even if Jeremy had shown Sheila how to load and fire the anshuzt rifle, the reasons for him doing this may be innocent!
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I can tell you all now with 100% certainty, that Jeremy Bamber was not inside the farmhouse when any of the five victims were shot and killed! But I have reservations about him showing his sister how to load bullets into the family owned anshuzt rifle and fire it! Then again, they lived on a farm where as everyone is surely aware, there is a need for pest and vermin control, so even if Jeremy had shown Sheila how to load and fire the anshuzt rifle, the reasons for him doing this may be innocent!
When I questioned Jeremy about what Pamela Boutflour said June had told her about Jeremy showing Sheila how to load bullets into the anshuzt rifle, and she then firing it, he admitted to me that he had given her lessons at some stage, but he also added that David Boutflour had also given her lessons involving other firearms, in particular shotguns and Jeremy told me that Sheila had been on grouse shoots in Scotland with David Boutflour, etc, etc, etc...
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I do not think Jeremy showing Sheila how to load bullets into the anshuzt rifle and fire it, justifies any suggestion that this in itself somehow implicates Jeremy in the shootings!
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I do not think Jeremy showing Sheila how to load bullets into the anshuzt rifle and fire it, justifies any suggestion that this in itself somehow implicates Jeremy in the shootings!
Since, David Boutflour was responsible for doing the same - does this then implicate David Boutflour as Sheila's accomplice'?
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Since, David Boutflour was responsible for doing the same - does this then implicate David Boutflour as Sheila's accomplice'?
I think not!
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But if Jeremy had been with Sheila when they were all killed?.............................
Jeremy wasn't there inside the farmhouse when Sheila shot and killed the other four, or when she died as a result of her being shot by the police! There would have been some physical trace evidence to establish his presence there if he had been there, but none existed, and none exists! When Neville Bamber called police as per his 3.26am call log, he told cops that 'My daughter has gone berserk', and that 'My daughter has got hold of one of my guns', why would Neville Bamber say this to police, if Jeremy was there in the farmhouse as well? Furthermore, why would Neville call Jeremy and quickly tell him that 'Sheila has got the gun', and was going crazy', if Jeremy was not in his cottage by that stage! Similarly, why would Jeremy attempt to contact somebody at Witham police station but gets no response, and then call Julie Mugford to tell her, 'there's something wrong at home', to which she responded, 'go back to bed', and afterwards why would Jeremy call PC West at 3.36am, and recount to him, what Neville had told him earlier using the same phraseology Neville had spoken to him, Jeremy told PC West what Neville had said to him, 'Sheila has the gun, she has gone crazy come quickly', he did not tell PC West, 'My daughter has gone berserk', and 'My daughter has got hold of one of my guns'. And, if the truth be known, PC West would not alter what Jeremy told him, when PC West updated Malcolm Bonnett to tell him that the son of Mr Bamber had contacted CD' with a message, who in turn entered this information into Neville Bambers existing 3.26am call log! Malcolm Bonnett would not edit what PC West told him what Jeremy said Neville Bamber had told him! There would be no need to alter Jeremy's words because PC West had accurately recorded what Jeremy told him in so far as the phraseology of 'Sheila has got the gun', and 'she is going crazy', or 'come quickly'. Bonnett had already recorded the words of Neville Bamber in his 3.26am call log, 'Daughter has gone berserk', and 'My daughter has got hold of one of my guns', so all that was required once Jeremy called PC West at 3.36am, was for PC West to put Jeremy on hold whilst West spoke to Bonnett and informed him that the son of Neville Bamber had contacted CD' regarding an incident police were already aware of, and dealing with!
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As for when the rifle in photograph No. 23 was taken and who took it - well it certainly wasn't a photograph that was taken by PC Bird (SOCO) and although both he and 'Ron' Cook testified during the trial that PC Bird had taken that picture (23) after he had photographed Sheila's body in the main bedroom, this can now be proven to be a damn right lie, as was 'Ron' Cooks claim that he it was who had removed the rifle from Sheila's body and he it was who had placed it by the main bedroom window prior to photograph no. 23 was in fact taken! Yet another damn right lie, because by reference to the COLP photographic schedule, photo' no. 23, was taken before PC Bird photographed Sheila's body in the main bedroom! Furthermore, photograph no. 23 was taken in the main bedroom during the hour long 'informatives' between 9 am and 10 am, prior to Cook, Bird, Davidson and Hammersley took control of the scene! Therefore, without a shadow of doubt 'Ron' Cook could not have placed the anshuzt rifle at the main bedroom window from the body of Sheila Caffell, because photograph no. 23 was taken before Cook had any chance of removing a gun from her body and placing it against the main bedroom window! He lied, so did PC Bird regarding who took photo' no. 23...
It was taken by Oakey / Henderson whilst senior officers performed 'informatives'...
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Jeremy wasn't there inside the farmhouse when Sheila shot and killed the other four, or when she died as a result of her being shot by the police! There would have been some physical trace evidence to establish his presence there if he had been there, but none existed, and none exists! When Neville Bamber called police as per his 3.26am call log, he told cops that 'My daughter has gone berserk', and that 'My daughter has got hold of one of my guns', why would Neville Bamber say this to police, if Jeremy was there in the farmhouse as well? Furthermore, why would Neville call Jeremy and quickly tell him that 'Sheila has got the gun', and was going crazy', if Jeremy was not in his cottage by that stage! Similarly, why would Jeremy attempt to contact somebody at Witham police station but gets no response, and then call Julie Mugford to tell her, 'there's something wrong at home', to which she responded, 'go back to bed', and afterwards why would Jeremy call PC West at 3.36am, and recount to him, what Neville had told him earlier using the same phraseology Neville had spoken to him, Jeremy told PC West what Neville had said to him, 'Sheila has the gun, she has gone crazy come quickly', he did not tell PC West, 'My daughter has gone berserk', and 'My daughter has got hold of one of my guns'. And, if the truth be known, PC West would not alter what Jeremy told him, when PC West updated Malcolm Bonnett to tell him that the son of Mr Bamber had contacted CD' with a message, who in turn entered this information into Neville Bambers existing 3.26am call log! Malcolm Bonnett would not edit what PC West told him what Jeremy said Neville Bamber had told him! There would be no need to alter Jeremy's words because PC West had accurately recorded what Jeremy told him in so far as the phraseology of 'Sheila has got the gun', and 'she is going crazy', or 'come quickly'. Bonnett had already recorded the words of Neville Bamber in his 3.26am call log, 'Daughter has gone berserk', and 'My daughter has got hold of one of my guns', so all that was required once Jeremy called PC West at 3.36am, was for PC West to put Jeremy on hold whilst West spoke to Bonnett and informed him that the son of Neville Bamber had contacted CD' regarding an incident police were already aware of, and dealing with!
Please clarify how there could NOT be "some physical trace evidence to establish his presence"!!! We KNOW he'd been there. He SAID he'd been there. Why would traces of his presence, at the time we KNOW he was there because he SAID he was there, be any different from traces of his presence, say a couple of hours later?
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Please clarify how there could NOT be "some physical trace evidence to establish his presence"!!! We KNOW he'd been there. He SAID he'd been there. Why would traces of his presence, at the time we KNOW he was there because he SAID he was there, be any different from traces of his presence, say a couple of hours later?
A total absence of any bloodied marks made by his presence had he been there at the time of any of the shootings! In contrast were such marks upon the bodies and clothing of the three adult victims, caused by contact between Sheila and Neville (vice versa), Sheila and June (vice versa). The heavily bloodstained bodies and clothing of the parents highlighting the difficulty anyone would have in not leaving a single clue in bloodstain into anywhere at all upstairs or downstairs! In contrast there was such trace evidence found on the bodies and clothing of all three adult victims to show contact between all had in fact occurred - Sheila had tried to strangle June and left bloodied marks upon her neck by use of her bloodied right hand!
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A total absence of any bloodied marks made by his presence had he been there at the time of any of the shootings! In contrast were such marks upon the bodies and clothing of the three adult victims, caused by contact between Sheila and Neville (vice versa), Sheila and June (vice versa). The heavily bloodstained bodies and clothing of the parents highlighting the difficulty anyone would have in not leaving a single clue in bloodstain into anywhere at all upstairs or downstairs! In contrast there was such trace evidence found on the bodies and clothing of all three adult victims to show contact between all had in fact occurred - Sheila had tried to strangle June and left bloodied marks upon her neck by use of her bloodied right hand!
He had all the time in the world to clean himself up at his leisure prior to returning to Goldhanger. Why would any "bloodied marks" have been down to him rather than one of the other adults? The police knew he'd been there earlier. They'd seen him arrive from his home in Goldhanger. The alleged phone call put him in his own home.
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He had all the time in the world to clean himself up at his leisure prior to returning to Goldhanger. Why would any "bloodied marks" have been down to him rather than one of the other adults? The police knew he'd been there earlier. They'd seen him arrive from his home in Goldhanger. The alleged phone call put him in his own home.
None of the bloodied marks on any of the three adult victims were made by Jeremy, there is clear evidence that Sheila and Neville had struggled together, and that Sheila and June had struggled together! The drips of blood in the region of Sheila's right hand wrist and the blood on the top part of her right hand are consistent with Sheila trying to throttle June, and June grabbing Sheila's wrist to try and stop her doing so - a corresponding bloodied mark from the fingers and right hand of Sheila were left upon the front of June Bambers throat! Sheila definitely attacked June with the gun and with her right hand as described! June resisted and left bloodied trace marks in the region of Sheila's wrist when June grabbed Sheila and tried to stop her from throttling her!
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PC Bird (SOCO) is at the heart of this conspiracy because he it was who was tasked with creating false photographic records, to hide the truth regarding who actually staged Sheila Caffells supposed suicide! It was the cops, not any body else! They even captured on film what they did as the were doing it, then got PC bird to try and conceal the evidence! They hid over 358 photographs...
Somebody has got to pay for this wicked Conspiracy!
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None of the bloodied marks on any of the three adult victims were made by Jeremy, there is clear evidence that Sheila and Neville had struggled together, and that Sheila and June had struggled together! The drips of blood in the region of Sheila's right hand wrist and the blood on the top part of her right hand are consistent with Sheila trying to throttle June, and June grabbing Sheila's wrist to try and stop her doing so - a corresponding bloodied mark from the fingers and right hand of Sheila were left upon the front of June Bambers throat! Sheila definitely attacked June with the gun and with her right hand as described! June resisted and left bloodied trace marks in the region of Sheila's wrist when June grabbed Sheila and tried to stop her from throttling her!
That just sounds like a hugely sweeping statement. It's all very well to say that none of the bloodied marks ware made by Jeremy, but at the time the bloodied marks were being examined, it was Sheila who was said to be the culprit. Thus far, what you say is more your own opinion, than proven evidence.
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Only copies of the originals!
sorry that's what I meant . Could you get them put in the archives?
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He had all the time in the world to clean himself up at his leisure prior to returning to Goldhanger. Why would any "bloodied marks" have been down to him rather than one of the other adults? The police knew he'd been there earlier. They'd seen him arrive from his home in Goldhanger. The alleged phone call put him in his own home.
So did Sheila
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So did Sheila
Not when she was dead.
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Not when she was dead.
But possibly before ::)
Hours in fact .
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But possibly before ::)
Hours in fact .
Then how would Nevill have made the silly o' clock call to Jeremy?
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Then how would Nevill have made the silly o' clock call to Jeremy?
There are still hours between this and when the police went in.
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So did Sheila
Why would Sheila wash herself only to shoot herself and cover herself in blood again? Where are the clothes she wore? Where are the signs that she had a shower at all? Why was no blood found in the bathroom? Or on towels etc?
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As for when the rifle in photograph No. 23 was taken and who took it - well it certainly wasn't a photograph that was taken by PC Bird (SOCO) and although both he and 'Ron' Cook testified during the trial that PC Bird had taken that picture (23) after he had photographed Sheila's body in the main bedroom, this can now be proven to be a damn right lie, as was 'Ron' Cooks claim that he it was who had removed the rifle from Sheila's body and he it was who had placed it by the main bedroom window prior to photograph no. 23 was in fact taken! Yet another damn right lie, because by reference to the COLP photographic schedule, photo' no. 23, was taken before PC Bird photographed Sheila's body in the main bedroom! Furthermore, photograph no. 23 was taken in the main bedroom during the hour long 'informatives' between 9 am and 10 am, prior to Cook, Bird, Davidson and Hammersley took control of the scene! Therefore, without a shadow of doubt 'Ron' Cook could not have placed the anshuzt rifle at the main bedroom window from the body of Sheila Caffell, because photograph no. 23 was taken before Cook had any chance of removing a gun from her body and placing it against the main bedroom window! He lied, so did PC Bird regarding who took photo' no. 23...
It was taken by Oakey / Henderson whilst senior officers performed 'informatives'...
Interesting.
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Why would Sheila wash herself only to shoot herself and cover herself in blood again? Where are the clothes she wore? Where are the signs that she had a shower at all? Why was no blood found in the bathroom? Or on towels etc?
Sheila did not shoot herself, either in the kitchen downstairs (refer to contemporaneously recorded and timed police message logs), or after her body was moved to the bedroom floor from the bed in the main bedroom (refer to faked witness statement accounts written up after a debriefing held at Witham on the first evening of the investigation, where senior officers told the firearm officers to record the find of the bodies as recorded by PC Bird (SOCO), who only took photographs after 10am, onward)! This was despite photographic evidence also existing to show that Sheila's body was laid on top of the bed sporting only one bullet wound in her neck, before cops moved her body onto the bedroom floor and introduced the family owned rifle to her body which fired a second shot into her brain during the performance of 'informatives' by senior officers, as photographed by DC Oakey and DC Henderson (SOCO)
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Sheila did not shoot herself, either in the kitchen downstairs (refer to contemporaneously recorded and timed police message logs), or after her body was moved to the bedroom floor from the bed in the main bedroom (refer to faked witness statement accounts written up after a debriefing held at Witham on the first evening of the investigation, where senior officers told the firearm officers to record the find of the bodies as recorded by PC Bird (SOCO), who only took photographs after 10am, onward)! This was despite photographic evidence also existing to show that Sheila's body was laid on top of the bed sporting only one bullet wound in her neck, before cops moved her body onto the bedroom floor and introduced the family owned rifle to her body which fired a second shot into her brain during the performance of 'informatives' by senior officers, as photographed by DC Oakey and DC Henderson (SOCO)
This was why cops sought to deliberately withhold and conceal photographs, all 358 of them which were taken by DC Oakey and DC Henderson whilst senior officers tampered with the bodies of June and Sheila during 'informatives' between 9 am and 10am. Cook, Bird, Davidson and Hammersley (second team of SOC) took over the role of recording the crime scene once senior officers had staged Sheila's and Junes death scenes in the main bedroom...
Essex police and the CPS hid the fact that there were two different SOC teams operating at the scene on that first morning of the investigation! They presented the role of the second SOC team consisting of Cook, Bird, Davidson and Hammersley, as though they were the only SOC present at the scene, and that they recorded the various crime scenes inside the farmhouse as though undisturbed, from two and a half hours previously! But what Cook, Bird, Davidson and Hammersley recorded was the staged crime scene, staged by senior officers during aforementioned 'informatives'! The complete set of photographs taken by PC Bird were faked by senior officers, and they even got PC Bird to create false photographic records, by getting him to create an imaginary 'THE MASTER COPY ALBUM', which was far from being a master copy, it not including 358 key photographs each capable individually and collectively of proving cops staged the bodies of June and Sheila on the bedroom floor after their bodies had been on top of the bed!
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This was why cops sought to deliberately withhold and conceal photographs, all 358 of them which were taken by DC Oakey and DC Henderson whilst senior officers tampered with the bodies of June and Sheila during 'informatives' between 9 am and 10am. Cook, Bird, Davidson and Hammersley (second team of SOC) took over the role of recording the crime scene once senior officers had staged Sheila's and Junes death scenes in the main bedroom...
Essex police and the CPS hid the fact that there were two different SOC teams operating at the scene on that first morning of the investigation! They presented the role of the second SOC team consisting of Cook, Bird, Davidson and Hammersley, as though they were the only SOC present at the scene, and that they recorded the various crime scenes inside the farmhouse as though undisturbed, from two and a half hours previously! But what Cook, Bird, Davidson and Hammersley recorded was the staged crime scene, staged by senior officers during aforementioned 'informatives'! The complete set of photographs taken by PC Bird were faked by senior officers, and they even got PC Bird to create false photographic records, by getting him to create an imaginary 'THE MASTER COPY ALBUM', which was far from being a master copy, it not including 358 key photographs each capable individually and collectively of proving cops staged the bodies of June and Sheila on the bedroom floor after their bodies had been on top of the bed!
If what I am revealing ever gets the case back to the court of appeal, Bambers convictions will automatically get quashed because the cops and the CPS prosecuted and convicted Jeremy Bamber by a reliance on crime scene photographs which purported to show the bodies of victims undisturbed, when what the court photographs actually portrayed Were staged death scenes, in particular, the death of Sheila Caffell was staged by cops to promote the suggestion that she had shot and killed herself by shooting herself twice with the family owned rifle, when if the truth be known she was only shot once with that gun (bullet, PV/19)! Cops were so cock sure of getting away with killing Sheila Caffell, that they didn't even bother to swap the original police round over and replace it with a test fired round fired in the family owned anshuzt rifle, until the relatives kicked up a stink and the case changed from being one of four murders and a suicide (Crime Reference no. SC/688/85), into five murders (Crime Reference no. SC/786/85) after the first week in September 1985. By that stage it was too late for cops to admit to what they had done! They would have got away with it if the matter had remained a Coroner's Court case, because a Coroner is only concerned with the cause of death, not whether as in Sheila's case, she took her own life, or not! She died as a result of gunshots to the neck and head (according to the death certificate)!
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358 missing photographs versus 223 photographs, will be a formidable ground of appeal in due course! The former taken by the first team of SOCO, DC Oakey and DC Henderson between 9am and 10am, whilst senior officers performed 'informatives', moving the bodies, removing items of evidential value, adding items of evidential value, and by 10am the death scenes of Sheila and June inside the main bedroom had been totally reset! Once senior officers were satisfied with staging these death scenes, only then we're the second team of SOCO, DI Cook, PC Bird, DS Davidson and DC Hammersley permitted into the farmhouse to record and gather exhibits from the revised crime scene - this is why it was after 10 am before this second team of SOCO were invited into the farmhouse to record the revised crime scenes in the kitchen and the main bedroom as though what they were recording was undisturbed death scenes involving Neville Bamber in the kitchen, and Sheila and June in the main bedroom..
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358 missing photographs versus 223 photographs, will be a formidable ground of appeal in due course! The former taken by the first team of SOCO, DC Oakey and DC Henderson between 9am and 10am, whilst senior officers performed 'informatives', moving the bodies, removing items of evidential value, adding items of evidential value, and by 10am the death scenes of Sheila and June inside the main bedroom had been totally reset! Once senior officers were satisfied with staging these death scenes, only then we're the second team of SOCO, DI Cook, PC Bird, DS Davidson and DC Hammersley permitted into the farmhouse to record and gather exhibits from the revised crime scene - this is why it was after 10 am before this second team of SOCO were invited into the farmhouse to record the revised crime scenes in the kitchen and the main bedroom as though what they were recording was undisturbed death scenes involving Neville Bamber in the kitchen, and Sheila and June in the main bedroom..
I have studied the photographic schedules against PC Bird (SOCO) and DI 'Ron' Cooks (SOCO) trial evidence, and have uncovered a mountain of evidence which establishes that Bird and Cook deliberately misled the court which was trying the matter by claiming that PC Bird took photograph no. 23, after he had already photographed Sheila's body in the main bedroom, but he lied and lied! Cook claimed he moved Sheila's hand so that PC Bird could photograph bloodied fingermarks on the front lower right of her light blue nightdress! He also claimed it was him who removed the gun from Sheila"s body and after getting police inspector Montgomery to make it safe, how he had positioned the rifle at the main bedroom window where PC Bird photographed it as per photograph no. 23, but Cook lied, and lied, and lied!!
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I have studied the photographic schedules against PC Bird (SOCO) and DI 'Ron' Cooks (SOCO) trial evidence, and have uncovered a mountain of evidence which establishes that Bird and Cook deliberately misled the court which was trying the matter by claiming that PC Bird took photograph no. 23, after he had already photographed Sheila's body in the main bedroom, but he lied and lied! Cook claimed he moved Sheila's hand so that PC Bird could photograph bloodied fingermarks on the front lower right of her light blue nightdress! He also claimed it was him who removed the gun from Sheila"s body and after getting police inspector Montgomery to make it safe, how he had positioned the rifle at the main bedroom window where PC Bird photographed it as per photograph no. 23, but Cook lied, and lied, and lied!!
How can it be proved that PC Bird (SOCO) and DI 'Ron' Cook (SOCO) lied and fabricated their testimony during Bambers October 1986, Chelmsford Crown Court trial, regarding who took photograph No. 23, and who actually moved Sheila Caffells right hand! PC bird did not take photograph no. 23, he is a pathological liar and criminal in uniform, and a conspirator! DC Henderson or DC Oakey took it, during the period 9am to 10am when senior officers performed 'informatives' , when they tampered with the crime scene in the main bedroom, and staged Sheila Caffells death scene! 'Ron' Cook was nobody but one of the many common criminals in uniform which exist! So too was PC Bird! There were others of course in this particular matter, including the unscrupulous and dishonest CPS (Adams, the dirty low life, CPS manager at the heart of the conspiracy to pervert the course of justice - these criminals in wigs and gowns cannot ever be prosecuted for fabricating evidence under the current Criminal justice system! They lie and even when exposed these vile individuals will never get prosecuted!
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How can it be proved that PC Bird (SOCO) and DI 'Ron' Cook (SOCO) lied and fabricated their testimony during Bambers October 1986, Chelmsford Crown Court trial, regarding who took photograph No. 23, and who actually moved Sheila Caffells right hand! PC bird did not take photograph no. 23, he is a pathological liar and criminal in uniform, and a conspirator! DC Henderson or DC Oakey took it, during the period 9am to 10am when senior officers performed 'informatives' , when they tampered with the crime scene in the main bedroom, and staged Sheila Caffells death scene! 'Ron' Cook was nobody but one of the many common criminals in uniform which exist! So too was PC Bird! There were others of course in this particular matter, including the unscrupulous and dishonest CPS (Adams, the dirty low life, CPS manager at the heart of the conspiracy to pervert the course of justice - these criminals in wigs and gowns cannot ever be prosecuted for fabricating evidence under the current Criminal justice system! They lie and even when exposed these vile individuals will never get prosecuted!
so if this is the case then it would have been in their interests to cover up what they had done and keep the crime as murder suicide.
So was it just pressure from the family that made them change track ? I am sorry I just don't get this ?
so when other officers got involved could they not tell them what they had done in respect of moving the bodies?
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The way that I see it, these criminals in uniform who cannot be and never are or very rarely are prosecuted, or are very rarely prosecuted, are victims of the criminal justice system itself - the Chief Constable of the investigating force, the director of public Prosecutions, the Home Secretary, the Lord Chief Justice should all be prosecuted as conspirators in these wicked, evil, vile acts of officialdom corruption! Let's get everyone if these heads of departments in court, cgpharged with conspiracy to pervert the course of justice and malfeance in public office, let's get one or other prosecuted, convicted, and sentenced for the criminal offences, and let these heads of department sort the chaff from the wheat!
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so if this is the case then it would have been in their interests to cover up what they had done and keep the crime as murder suicide. it depends how you look at the problem! What you have got to try and remember, is that by the time the nature of the investigation altered, SC/688/85 into SC/786/85, a lot of water had already passed under the bridge! Cops had proceeded on the basis that Sheila had shot, struggled and killed the other four victims, añd then gone on to take her own life! The first part of this presentation was true and accurate, the second part was and is totally untrue and a lie! Since, Sheila did not shoot herself, or commit suicide on the main bedroom floor with the family owned anshuzt rifle! She was only shot once by a bullet (PV/19) fired by way of that weapon, this was according to police reports inflicted at 9.13am after Sheila's body was moved to the bedroom floor from on top of her parents bed! An officers report exists containing the reference no. 1612 which details how a firearms officers gun shot Sheila upon his entry to the kitchen at 7.35am! The contents of the timed police radio logs, and elsewhere, timed at 7.35am, 7.37am, 7.38am, 7.42am, 7.45am, and 8.10am, are all 100% true! Cops didn't have time to convict and fabricate their stories whilst contemporaneous messages were being relayed! There was definitely two bodies downstairs in the kitchen between 7.45am, and 8.10am, and only a further three bodies upstairs by 8.10am, making five dead in total. But this body count changed after the I troduction of Harris, Gibbons and ontgo dry to the kitchen at around 8.15am, when to everyone's surprise and concern, only the body of Neville Bamber was present! Such was the dilemma cops found themselves in at around 8.15am, that it required direct communication between ACc Peter Simpson, and DCI 'George' Harris via use of the kitchen landline to sort out! A call which lasted some15 minutes,only terminated once Sheila's body had been relocated on top of the bed,in the main bedroom, shot only once by that stage, and more importantly with no rifle at all in Sheila's Cavell's possession,the rifle in question had been resting against a first floor box room window, at the time the police surgeon (8.44am) pronounced Sheila as being dead, she having only what appeared to be single gunshot wound to her neck by that stage!
So was it just pressure from the family that made them change track ? No, it wasn't just the pressure from relatives! It was the hole Essex police had dug itself into! They presented Sheila's death as a suicide, despite knowing this not to be true! Sheila did not shoot herself downstairs in the kitchen, with what rifle? The family owned anshuzt rifle was resting against a first floor box room window where it had been placed by Sheila at around 7.15am, onward! How had this rifle managed to find its way onto Sheila's body to enable the cops to stage her death scene as a suicide upstairs in the main bedroom? I am sorry I just don't get this ? That's why they got away with doing what they did, ordinary members of the public subscribe to the model of a police officer being law abiding, honest and specific, but in the vast majority of cases, they are the criminals in uniform, they lie, they fabricate, to try and protect themselves, and secure wrongful convictions against totally innocent people! They paraphrase witness statements of ordinary witnesses to try and show some intent on the defendants the part! They are bias, corrupt criminals in uniform, please try to remember ember that phrase, it account ta for what these low life scumbags in uniform represent! Trust these criminals in uniform at your own peril!
so when other officers got involved could they not tell them what they had done in respect of moving the bodies? it depends what you mean in the context of what your saying, or asking? I can answer you, but I need to be absolutely clear about what your saying, or asking me to comment on or about!
These answers can be expanded upon, if necessary!!
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Cops in the so called Bamber case, encouraged by corrupt CPS officials fabricated the photographic evidence which convinced the jury that Sheila did not kill herself!
I agree with this conclusion she did not shoot or kill herself, the police shot her, they killed her, and they deliberately withheld and concealed a total of 358 crime scene photographs, and a crime scene video which proves cops shot Sheila and that cops staged her death scene on the main bedroom floor as a suicide!
The public needs to open their eyes to what these criminals in uniform get up to...
They are basically scumbags who should be hung at the gallows, horrible despicable individuals..
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Cops in the so called Bamber case, encouraged by corrupt CPS officials fabricated the photographic evidence which convinced the jury that Sheila did not kill herself!
I agree with this conclusion she did not shoot or kill herself, the police shot her, they killed her, and they deliberately withheld and concealed a total of 358 crime scene photographs, and a crime scene video which proves cops shot Sheila and that cops staged her death scene on the main bedroom floor as a suicide!
The public needs to open their eyes to what these criminals in uniform get up to...
They are basically scumbags who should be hung at the gallows, horrible despicable individuals..
I personally would be prepared to be the official hangnan that hangs every last one of these evil,
vile bastards!!!
They create crimes, and can't even get it right in so doing!
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These criminals in uniform, and their cousins at the CPS are the real criminals..
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These criminals in uniform, and their cousins at the CPS are the real criminals..
Always remember, they can lie, they can fabricate, and none of these evil vile monsters will invariably ever be prosecuted - how can such activity be part and parcel of a fair criminal justice system?
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These answers can be expanded upon, if necessary!!
What I meant by the last comment was , new officers called in . They discover various problems with how the scene and evidence had been handled so decided they would go ahead with pursuing Jeremy , could not the other officers say " don't go down that route we know it looks odd but it was us that moved the bodies and the bible and Jeremy did not do it?
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What I meant by the last comment was , new officers called in . They discover various problems with how the scene and evidence had been handled so decided they would go ahead with pursuing Jeremy , could not the other officers say " don't go down that route we know it looks odd but it was us that moved the bodies and the bible and Jeremy did not do it?
No, it didn't pan out quite like that - the same core of criminals in uniform did not advertise the existence of the 358 other crime scene photographs which existed (581 in total) kept in an album, which is known as, 'THE SENIOR INVESTIGATING OFFICERS ALBUM', kept under lock and key in ACC Peter Simpsons office safe at Chelmsford police station! Nobody had access to these damning photographs (all 358 of them) only ACC 'Peter' Simpson, except for training purposes! The training I am talking about is with regards to how to carry out 'informatives', and change a crime scene, so that a staged scene can be reset and photographed and use these latter photographs to promote the suggestion that this was how the scene was found undisturbed! The truth is, cops used two different SOCO teams to record the various crime scenes inside the farmhouse at different stages of the proceedings, team one recorded the scene as found by 9am before senior officers started to perform 'informatives'. In particular, DC Oakey and DC Henderson (both SOCO from HQ) recorded the position of Sheila's body on the bed at a time when she was not in possession of the rifle, and she had only been shot once! They also photographed June Bambers body on the bed! They photographed a bible on Sheila's chest whilst she was laid on top of the bed, and they photographed the rifle which had been brought from the box room window into the main bedroom and placed it on the bed in-between the bodies of Sheila and June! Whilst this was happening or thereabouts, DS 'Stan' Jones and DC 'Mick' Clarke, arrived at the scene and saw the two bodies on top of the bed! By this stage Sheila had only got one bullet wound to her throat! The Bible was still on Sheila's chest! The aforementioned rifle was resting on the bed in-between the two bodies, then Jones and Clark left the farmhouse! After they left senior officers authorised the removal of the two bodies from the bed, onto the floor either side of the bed. June's body was placed near the bedroom door on the right of the bed as viewed from the foot of the bed! Sheila's body was moved onto the bedroom floor to the left of the bed! The real crux of the cover up rests between examination of the crime scene photographs taken by SOCO team one (Oakey and Henderson), versus the photographic evidence taken by SOCO team two (Bird, Cook, Davidson and Hammersley) in other words the 358 withheld photographs taken by SOCO team one, prior to, and during 'informatives' photographs taken between 9am and 10 am, versus the 223+ photographs taken by SOCO team two, after senior officers had staged the bodies of Sheila, and June on the bedroom floor, photographed after 10 am. The evidence is there for all to see by anybody interested in looking! Obviously, brainwashed members of the public will refuse to recognise the truth in the matter! Cops are heroes every damn one of them! Of course they are...
New officers joining, or taking over in any new investigation were not privy to the measures taken involving the cover up of how Sheila Caffell died inside whf at precisely 9.13am on the main bedroom floor! Her death and the build up to it after firearm officers set off at 7.30am to enter the farmhouse, in the kitchen downstairs by 7.35am, then upstairs on the far side of the bed in the main bedroom by 8.44am, and on the main bedroom floor at 9.13am, proved to be an insurmountable exercise in police negligence, and dishonesty!
The cops thought they could get away with it because in presenting Sheila Caffells death as a suicide, they could take the case through the Coroner's court system, where only the cause of death needed to be established 'gunshot to the neck and head'! Once the nature of the investigation changed into five murders, police had taken the cover up too far already, there was no turning back! Photographs and a video of the crime scene taken by SOCO team one, were edited out and a false ' THE MASTER COPY ALBUM' was created so that any new officers joining the new investigation worked off the photographs that were taken after 10am by the second team of SOCO...
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I have analysed all the available material, I know exactly what these criminals in uniform did, and how they did it!
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I was targeted after my release from HMP Full Sutton, on 26 July 1990 on bail pending an appeal to the Royal Courts of Justice, by the now defunct No. 3 Regional Crime Squad, and the equally despicable local South Yorkshire CPS! I was taking an active interest in Jeremy Bambers case, and beginning to expose dishonesty and corruption in the police and prosecutions case! I was eventually rearrested on 10 July 1991, at Goldthorpe in South Yorkshire, on suspicion of burgling a retired Judges house, at Peakley Hill, Derbyshire and stealing from therein, £25,000 in silverware! At my trial I was represented by Victor Temple, QC. Little did I know that he would be the lead prosecutor opposing Bambers 2002 appeal! Whilst representing me he questioned me about the role I was playing trying to help Jeremy Bamber, and what I had thus far discovered and uncovered! It seems obvious to me now with the benefit of hindsight that he should not have been questioning me about Jeremy Bambers case, and that he should not have opposed Bambers appeal, the CPS should have got somebody else to do that! There was a conflict of interest involving Victor Temple, QC in representing me, and opposing Jeremy Bambers 2002 appeal - this just highlights the extent of the corruption and dishonesty in the CPS...
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This is what PC Bird had to say about the order he claims he took photographs in at the scene whilst testifying at the trial -
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PC Bird testified that the very first photograph that he took upstairs was photograph 25 which showed a view according to the COLP/Operation Stokenchurch photographic schedule of the body of June Bamber!
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PC Bird testified that the very first photograph that he took upstairs was photograph 25 which showed a view according to the COLP/Operation Stokenchurch photographic schedule of the body of June Bamber!
And yet..
The anshuzt rifle in photograph no. 23 shown at the main bedroom window was taken before photograph no. 25, and whoever took photograph no. 23 was obviously upstairs in the farmhouse, taking a photograph of the main bedroom doorway with the rifle at the upstairs bedroom window, on an occasion before PC Bird took his very first photograph (No. 25) upstairs at the scene. Here is a copy of photograph no. 23 showing the rifle at the main bedroom window before/prior to PC Bird taking photograph no. 25 a view of June Bamber..
The anshuzt rifle was photographed leaning next to the main main bedroom window, therefore, before any photographs showing it in Sheila Caffells possession, as in photograph no. 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32 and 33. This is the evidence that will quash Bambers convictions at his next appeal! The rifle was at the window before cops dishonestly transferred it onto Sheila Caffells body! Oh, and DC Oakey took photograph no. 26, showing the rifle from the main bedroom window (no. 23) with Sheila Caffells body in photograph no. 26, with the barrel of the rifle resting against the left side of Sheila's neck, positioned differently to where the barrel of the same gun was positioned by the time PC Bird took photographs, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32 etc...
The anshuzt rifle was therefore moved, by cops from the main bedroom window (as in 23), onto Sheila Caffells body (as in 26), and moved into a different position on Sheila's body so that PC Bird could then photograph it there, and present the photographs as being a truly undisturbed view of the crime scene in the main bedroom,
when all along cops had faked it!
Or the following photographs were taken and whom by:-
Photo' no. 23 - taken by SOCO team one, DC Oakey and DC Henderson, between 9am and 10 am
Photo' no. 26 (zoomed in) - taken by DC Oakey (SOCO HQ) prior to 10am
Photo' no. 26 - taken by DC Oakey (SOCO HQ) prior to 10am
Photo' no. 32 - taken by SOCO team two, PC Bird, after 10am...
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I have seen this dismissed on this forum several times as a mistake .
Either that the officer did not see it
Or it could have been a broom or something similar?
So the officer was a firearms officer with experience.
So I think we can assume she knows what a rifle looks like.
But if she was wrong then there must have been something that looked very much like a rifle in one window of the side of the house she was facing.
If This s noti in the crime scene photos I think we can establish that something was moved from the time of her sighting to the time of the crime scene photos . So even if it was a broom someone must have moved it?
but why would they move a broom.
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but why would they move a broom.
what I was trying to establish was what room did Jeapes say the rifle was in and was there a picture of that room?
And still unanswered the difference in the CS photos on the main bedroom . Except for Mike .
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Cops moved the anshuzt rifle, from bedroom window (23), onto Sheila Caffells body (26) and moved the position of the rifle again (32) thus staging Sheila Caffells death scene as a suicide! Jeremy Bamber had no involvement in presenting his sister's death as though she had taken her own life, the photographic evidence presented above by me here establishes that the cop criminals in uniform were responsible for 'faking the main bedroom scene' and in particular 'the death of Sheila Caffell'!
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WPC Jeapes was a trained firearms instructor! She had a telescope fitted to her police issue weapon. She was performing containment and cover duties at the time she saw the anshuzt rifle being placed at a first floor box room window by Sheila Caffell at around 7.15am! She did not mistake a broom handle for the rifle, she saw the rifle at that window just as the six man raid team commenced their approach to enter the farmhouse! PC Brown also saw the same rifle at the same box room window! He did not see a broom handle thinking it was a rifle! Forget trying to introduce a trick of the room handle, it's utterly pathetic, and no cop has ever suggested such a thing! The rifle was at that box room window alright before cops introduced it to the main bedroom scene, where it was placed on the bed in-between the bodies of Sheila and June Bamber, as reported to Ann Eaton by DS Jones and DC Clarke, who saw the two bodies laid side by side on top of the bed, with a Bible on Sheila's chest! Then cops moved the bodies onto the bedroom floor either side of the bed, June to the right of the bed, Sheila to the left of the bed! The rifle was then introduced from the main bedroom window onto Sheila's body on the floor, and the rest is history! What cops did in this particular matter was unforgivable! They did not set out to frame Jeremy Bamber for these murders by doing what they did, they did what they did to try and protect themselves from criticism of the way they carried out the containment and how they brought the seige to an end! They made serious blunder after serious blunder, calling Sheila's death as a suicide downstairs in the kitchen, upstairs on the far side of the bed, and they were responsible for using a loaded firearm during informative by placing it on Sheila's body after her body had been brought to the bedroom floor from the bed, at this time the second fatal shot got discharged from the rifle! After this, the rifle was immediately removed from her body and she was placed in the recovery position on her right side! Then she was rolled back into the suppine position and the anshuzt rifle placed back in her possession as though she had shot herself!!
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Here is further proof that PC Bird committed perjury whilst testifying at the trial regarding the order he took photographs at the scene on that first morning!
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what I was trying to establish was what room did Jeapes say the rifle was in and was there a picture of that room?
And still unanswered the difference in the CS photos on the main bedroom . Except for Mike .
The room leading from the main bedroom to the twins room but she didn't say it was a rifle she said she saw what 'appeared' to be a rifle.
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It was the box room. the room leading from the main bedroom to the twins room but she didn't say it was a rifle she said she saw what 'appeared' to be a rifle.
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Pedantic twaddle, she was a trained firearms instructor, she had a scope on her rifle, and PC Brown also confirmed the rifles presence there!
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police officers says they saw a riffel through an upstairs window and there just happens to be a spare riffel laying about rather an odd coincedence isnt it.
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police officers says they saw a riffel through an upstairs window and there just happens to be a spare riffel laying about rather an odd coincedence isnt it.
Have you got a source that a rifle was seen in an upstairs dark room ?
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Pedantic twaddle, she was a trained firearms instructor, she had a scope on her rifle, and PC Brown also confirmed the rifles presence there!
Anyway, forget the pedantic twaddle, the anshuzt rifle (photo' no. 23) was taken leaning against the inside of the main bedroom window, before cops photographed it in Sheila Caffells possession once her body had been moved onto the bedroom floor from a top the bed! What we are dealing with here are corrupt coppers, corrupt and dishonest CPS, and members of the public refusing to acknowledge irrefutable facts - cops stage Sheila Caffells death scene on the main bedroom floor! The existing photographic evidence supports this emphatically, yet common members of the public think cops did nothing wrong in staging Sheila's death scene by believing that cops were justified (somehow) in doing such a wicked thing! Cops faked Sheila's death scene in the main bedroom on the bedroom floor with 100% certainty, and by the time the case came to trial, cops had faked photographic records, ommitting the existence of 358 photographs, and a crime scene video!
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It doesn't matter which photographic schedule anyone refers to, or seeks to rely upon, the photograph of the rifle (no. 23) was always taken before any photographs showing the said rifle in her possession - this proves PC Bird (SOCO) and DI 'Ron' Cook (SOCO) told a deliberate lie by claiming that PC Bird took it after photographing the same rifle in Sheila Caffells possession! This claim was false, photograph no. 23 was taken before Sheila's body was ever photographed, and it was taken before 10am, not afterwards!
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It doesn't matter which photographic schedule anyone refers to, or seeks to rely upon, the photograph of the rifle (no. 23) was always taken before any photographs showing the said rifle in her possession - this proves PC Bird (SOCO) and DI 'Ron' Cook (SOCO) told a deliberate lie by claiming that PC Bird took it after photographing the same rifle in Sheila Caffells possession! This claim was false, photograph no. 23 was taken before Sheila's body was ever photographed, and it was taken before 10am, not afterwards!
Analysis based on different photographic schedules created by PC Bird, and the Stokenchurch/COLP enquiry!!
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What we discover when we analyse the sequence with which photographs, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32 and 33, and so on, and so forth were taken, is that the anshuzt rifle was photographed leaning against the main bedroom window by cops, before they photographed it on Sheila Caffells body, this is by referring to the sequence with which the photographs were taken, either in 'THE MASTER COPY ALBUM', the COURT ALBUM', or THE STOKENCHURCH/COLP PHOTOGRAPH SCHEDULE' (as above)!!!
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What we discover when we analyse the sequence with which photographs, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32 and 33, and so on, and so forth were taken, is that the anshuzt rifle was photographed leaning against the main bedroom window by cops, before they photographed it on Sheila Caffells body, this is by referring to the sequence with which the photographs were taken, either in 'THE MASTER COPY ALBUM', the COURT ALBUM', or THE STOKENCHURCH/COLP PHOTOGRAPH SCHEDULE' (as above)!!!
The court which convicted Jeremy Bamber was seriously deceived by the claim that photograph no. 23 was taken after PC Bird had photographed Sheila's body in possession of the said rifle, but the fact is it was photographed at the main bedroom window and then moved eventually onto the body of Sheila on the bedroom floor, after cops moved her body there from on top of the bed during 'informatives'...
This constitutes a conspiracy to pervert the course of justice, and these bad apple cops all need to be prosecuted, convicted, and given lengthy custodial sentences, as an example to try and deter other bad apple cops in other miscarriages of justice from going down the same road!
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There is clear evidence now available to prove and establish beyond doubt that cops staged and faked Sheila's Caffells body and her death scene on the main bedroom floor, and that cops planted the anshuzt rifle on her body to present her death as a possible suicide! The fact that it was the main plank of the prosecutions case that Jeremy had been responsible for doing this so as to lead the cops a merry dance, can now be shown to be a massive fib! Jeremy Bamber did not shoot his sister, she did not shoot herself, cops did and because they dug themselves into a deep hole by relying on the matter going through the Coroner's Court system, where the coroner is only concerned with the cause of death, not with whether or not a person committed suicide, or was murdered, and the case then was to be taken through the Criminal Court System, cops found themselves at the point of no return, they had already committed themselves to deal with the matter in the other court system, they opted for going along by a reliance upon faked photographic evidence, hid the role played by the first SOCO team, and got PC Bird (SOCO) from the second team to take photographs of the bodies Insitu and claimed these photographs were taken of the crime scene undisturbed! They hid 358 photographs and a crime scene video taken by DC Oakey and DC Henderson, they even went to the point of trying to conceal the presence of these two SOCO at the scene! The fact that senior officers conducted 'informatives' in the main bedroom between 9am and 10 am, was also kept quiet! The body of Sheila Caffell was moved and disturbed from being a top the bed, onto the floor, etc, etc, etc...
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There is clear evidence now available to prove and establish beyond doubt that cops staged and faked Sheila's Caffells body and her death scene on the main bedroom floor, and that cops planted the anshuzt rifle on her body to present her death as a possible suicide! The fact that it was the main plank of the prosecutions case that Jeremy had been responsible for doing this so as to lead the cops a merry dance, can now be shown to be a massive fib! Jeremy Bamber did not shoot his sister, she did not shoot herself, cops did and because they dug themselves into a deep hole by relying on the matter going through the Coroner's Court system, where the coroner is only concerned with the cause of death, not with whether or not a person committed suicide, or was murdered, and the case then was to be taken through the Criminal Court System, cops found themselves at the point of no return, they had already committed themselves to deal with the matter in the other court system, they opted for going along by a reliance upon faked photographic evidence, hid the role played by the first SOCO team, and got PC Bird (SOCO) from the second team to take photographs of the bodies Insitu and claimed these photographs were taken of the crime scene undisturbed! They hid 358 photographs and a crime scene video taken by DC Oakey and DC Henderson, they even went to the point of trying to conceal the presence of these two SOCO at the scene! The fact that senior officers conducted 'informatives' in the main bedroom between 9am and 10 am, was also kept quiet! The body of Sheila Caffell was moved and disturbed from being a top the bed, onto the floor, etc, etc, etc...
Just check the photographic schedules created by PC Bird (SOCO), and Stokenchurch, (above)! In each case, photograph no. 23 which shows the anshuzt rifle resting next to the main bedroom window, was taken before any photographs in sequence which show the same rifle on Sheila Caffells body! Cops have clearly moved the rifle from the main bedroom window onto the body of Sheila, and cops staged her death scene, they presented her death to the Coroner as a suicide! This establishes Jeremy Bambers innocence beyond reasonable doubt!
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Have you got a source that a rifle was seen in an upstairs dark room ?
Why would the room have been dark?
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Just check the photographic schedules created by PC Bird (SOCO), and Stokenchurch, (above)! In each case, photograph no. 23 which shows the anshuzt rifle resting next to the main bedroom window, was taken before any photographs in sequence which show the same rifle on Sheila Caffells body! Cops have clearly moved the rifle from the main bedroom window onto the body of Sheila, and cops staged her death scene, they presented her death to the Coroner as a suicide! This establishes Jeremy Bambers innocence beyond reasonable doubt!
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I can't believe they would not make sure the gun was safe first before taking the photos .
Which would reinforce the argument . Wonder where all those negatives are ?
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Just found this which I had not seen before and does indicate that the gun may have been moved before photos taken . Which is what you think would happen for the safety of officers
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Statement of WPC Jeapes (after 7:30am)
She says that she saw the rifle leaning up against the window frame of the tiny room between the master and the twins room which were connected by doors, this was between 7:30am and when she left the scene at 9am. How did this rifle move from the window to Sheila’s body if she had been killed by Jeremy Bamber before 3:30am as the prosecution stated. The same rifle was seen lying on her body by 8:30am and mysteriously at 10.20am the same gun was back in the window of the main bedroom where she was found. The police never made any reference to the gun in this small room, and there is not a single photograph of this room in the crime scene photographs which is very curious.
Statement of PC Brown (after 7am)
He also details what he believed to be a gun in the window of the small room off the master bedroom, supporting the evidence of WPC Jeapes. How could sightings by two firearms officers, who were located separately and both watching the house using the telescopic sight of a firearm be mistaken about seeing the gun in the window?
In his statement DI Cook said that the first time the rifle was moved from Sheila was 11:10am, the photographing started at 10:00am and finished at 10:50am. Statement of PC Hall (7:00am to 7:34am).
Hall states that PC Collins “reported that he could see the body of who he thought was a woman in the kitchen” before the firearms team broke into the house. PC Hall also states later when they broke into the house "I immediately heard a noise upstairs and began to challenge up the stairs I was covering, I was calling to Sheila Bamber to make her whereabouts known to me."
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Alosminnadams main statement he misses out completely that he was walked round the house and saw the bodies .
But it is in a later one .
And this is when Sheila was seen with the rifle and bible in a different position .
This was before 8.45
So if it was EP that moved the bible and the gun
Then surely that means blood staining on the bible resulting in those moves must indicate the blood was still wet?
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There is nothing that will shift my conviction that a murder scene in which the murderer has committed suicide, is going to be treated entirely differently from a murder scene in which the murderer is unknown. I think it was this and this alone -aided brilliantly by Jeremy- which was the cause of the shambles the investigation became.
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Alosminnadams main statement he misses out completely that he was walked round the house and saw the bodies .
But it is in a later one .
And this is when Sheila was seen with the rifle and bible in a different position .
This was before 8.45
So if it was EP that moved the bible and the gun
Then surely that means blood staining on the bible resulting in those moves must indicate the blood was still wet?
Or that Adams was completely mistaken
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Or that Adams was completely mistaken
And his colleague as well .
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The significant thing is, that thejury were deceived by the presentation of the crime scene photographs which showed Sheila in possession of the rifle, presented as Jeremys attempt to stage her suicide, when all along it was the cops who staged Sheila's death scene on the bedroom floor! How can this despicable act be deemed lawful and proper? Surely everyone can see that there has been a serious miscarriage of justice in this case! You simply can't have cops doing such blatent things and getting away with it, and somebody being on the receiving end of such blatent corruptioj! I have no doubt that one of the chief instagators behind this debackle was non other than DCS 'Mick' Ainsley who took control of the second part of the police investigation (SC/786/85) in September 1985! The fact that he was given a job as a 'Security Advisor' at Osea Road Camp Site, by the relatives upon his retirement from Essex Police should also not go unnoticed!!
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. . . the anshuzt rifle . . .
The rifle manufacturer's name should be spelt "Anschütz", not "anshuzt".
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The rifle manufacturer's name should be spelt "Anschütz", not "anshuzt".
Yes but who can be bothered with alt+129? Those poor foreigners..
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If posting from a telephone, using "u" instead of "ü" is understandable. Omitting "c" and swapping "t" and swapping "z" remains completely unnecessary.
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If posting from a telephone, using "u" instead of "ü" is understandable. Omitting "c" and swapping "t" and swapping "z" remains completely unnecessary.
I thought it might have become an anglicized word like Muesli, but I don't know enough about firearms, though I take your point.