Jeremy Bamber Forum

JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: Caroline on October 30, 2015, 01:38:PM

Title: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Caroline on October 30, 2015, 01:38:PM
http://jeremybamber.blogspot.co.uk/
"And so the cycle went on that is until we got back to the van. From then on we called each other ‘Matey’ which fairly quickly was shortened to ‘Mate’. Right up to the 6th August 1985 and my going home leaving dad to collect the last trailer of rape seed from the combine at 10:00pm and leave it for me to tip and process in the morning. My last words to dad when I left that evening were, “Thanks Mate, I’ll see you in the morning.” I said a “Good night” to mum and Sheila and off I went.

In a way, looking back now, I can see why dad’s call to me prompted my phone call to the police at 03:36am. The reason why I took his telephone call so seriously. I have always felt that it was because I’d tried to ring him back to find out more information and my getting the engaged signal each time I did so. Not being able to call dad back to speak to him may have been part of it, but subconsciously I’d have known it was serious due to him not using the term “Matey” during our short conversation.

Obviously this is not a point to be taken to the Appeal Court, it would mean nothing to them, but to dad and I our 'in' joke was important to both of us on so many levels. In order for me to clear all of our names, I’ve had to try to understand everything, including my own actions and motivations."
                                                ...................................................................

Since WHEN did he take the call seriously? He didn't call 999 and it took him 26 mins to call the police and ONLY after calling Julie first. And where did this 'matey' thing come from, this is the first time he's mentioned it and certainly the first time in relation to the phone call. The smell of BS weighs heavily!!

The first paragraph (I feel) is really telling, he's trying to convince people that he left his dad on really good terms and yet BW recognised that Nevill wasn't in the best of moods. Personally, I think it was because Jeremy left his father to finish a job he should have done and Nevill wasn't happy. He made a BIG thing of leaving the farm that day, making sure Len Foakes saw him leave and was aware that Nevill was bringing back the rape seed - there is something about the final interaction between Jeremy and Nevill that just doesn't ring true and I feel there is more to it. I don't believe that Nevill was happy with Jeremy when he left that night.
 

Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Steve_uk on October 30, 2015, 02:08:PM
http://jeremybamber.blogspot.co.uk/
"And so the cycle went on that is until we got back to the van. From then on we called each other ‘Matey’ which fairly quickly was shortened to ‘Mate’. Right up to the 6th August 1985 and my going home leaving dad to collect the last trailer of rape seed from the combine at 10:00pm and leave it for me to tip and process in the morning. My last words to dad when I left that evening were, “Thanks Mate, I’ll see you in the morning.” I said a “Good night” to mum and Sheila and off I went.

In a way, looking back now, I can see why dad’s call to me prompted my phone call to the police at 03:36am. The reason why I took his telephone call so seriously. I have always felt that it was because I’d tried to ring him back to find out more information and my getting the engaged signal each time I did so. Not being able to call dad back to speak to him may have been part of it, but subconsciously I’d have known it was serious due to him not using the term “Matey” during our short conversation.

Obviously this is not a point to be taken to the Appeal Court, it would mean nothing to them, but to dad and I our 'in' joke was important to both of us on so many levels. In order for me to clear all of our names, I’ve had to try to understand everything, including my own actions and motivations."
                                                ...................................................................

Since WHEN did he take the call seriously? He didn't call 999 and it took him 26 mins to call the police and ONLY after calling Julie first. And where did this 'matey' thing come from, this is the first time he's mentioned it and certainly the first time in relation to the phone call. The smell of BS weighs heavily!!

The first paragraph (I feel) is really telling, he's trying to convince people that he left his dad on really good terms and yet BW recognised that Nevill wasn't in the best of moods. Personally, I think it was because Jeremy left his father to finish a job he should have done and Nevill wasn't happy. He made a BIG thing of leaving the farm that day, making sure Len Foakes saw him leave and was aware that Nevill was bringing back the rape seed - there is something about the final interaction between Jeremy and Nevill that just doesn't ring true and I feel there is more to it. I don't believe that Nevill was happy with Jeremy when he left that night.
The stress of overwork can be a killer: Jeremy had had enough by 24,Prince Harry gave up the more challenging job of helicopter pilot at 30 and Nevill at 61 would surely be feeling the strain. The most successful long-livers are those who can delegate tasks to their subordinates but I doubt that this was the case in this father and son relationship. Didn't Nevill ask why Barbara had not been that day when it was her day off anyway? With Sheila and the twins present that week there's the quandary of extra work falling on everyone and the obligation to be pleasant in keeping up appearances,yet with many of the characters all on separate trajectories.
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: scipio_usmc on October 30, 2015, 02:27:PM

Since WHEN did he take the call seriously? He didn't call 999 and it took him 26 mins to call the police and ONLY after calling Julie first. And where did this 'matey' thing come from, this is the first time he's mentioned it and certainly the first time in relation to the phone call. The smell of BS weighs heavily!!

The first paragraph (I feel) is really telling, he's trying to convince people that he left his dad on really good terms and yet BW recognised that Nevill wasn't in the best of moods. Personally, I think it was because Jeremy left his father to finish a job he should have done and Nevill wasn't happy. He made a BIG thing of leaving the farm that day, making sure Len Foakes saw him leave and was aware that Nevill was bringing back the rape seed - there is something about the final interaction between Jeremy and Nevill that just doesn't ring true and I feel there is more to it. I don't believe that Nevill was happy with Jeremy when he left that night.

This just shows how much of a liar he truly is.  At trial he admitted he didn't call police immediately.  He said that at first he was not worried and that only as time went by and he thought about it more did he realize something was wrong and thus that he should call police. 

Mind you at trial he maintained he called prior to 3:26 not at 3:36 which only makes the gap even larger so is a stupid lie that is inconsistent with his claim he was worried right away.

He said the 3:36 because the foolish supporters he has managed to convince regarding Nevill making a call.  The same foolish supporters are more than willing to overlook that he called Julie first and lied about calling police first, overlook him looking up numbers instead of calling 999 (which indicates no sense of urgency) and also overlook the gap in time between when Nevill allegedly called and him calling police.

His supporters are so biased he feels free to make up any BS without fear and they do exactly what he expects they will.
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Stephanie on October 30, 2015, 02:58:PM
http://jeremybamber.blogspot.co.uk/
"And so the cycle went on that is until we got back to the van. From then on we called each other ‘Matey’ which fairly quickly was shortened to ‘Mate’. Right up to the 6th August 1985 and my going home leaving dad to collect the last trailer of rape seed from the combine at 10:00pm and leave it for me to tip and process in the morning. My last words to dad when I left that evening were, “Thanks Mate, I’ll see you in the morning.” I said a “Good night” to mum and Sheila and off I went.

In a way, looking back now, I can see why dad’s call to me prompted my phone call to the police at 03:36am. The reason why I took his telephone call so seriously. I have always felt that it was because I’d tried to ring him back to find out more information and my getting the engaged signal each time I did so. Not being able to call dad back to speak to him may have been part of it, but subconsciously I’d have known it was serious due to him not using the term “Matey” during our short conversation.

Obviously this is not a point to be taken to the Appeal Court, it would mean nothing to them, but to dad and I our 'in' joke was important to both of us on so many levels. In order for me to clear all of our names, I’ve had to try to understand everything, including my own actions and motivations."
                                                ...................................................................

Since WHEN did he take the call seriously? He didn't call 999 and it took him 26 mins to call the police and ONLY after calling Julie first. And where did this 'matey' thing come from, this is the first time he's mentioned it and certainly the first time in relation to the phone call. The smell of BS weighs heavily!!

The first paragraph (I feel) is really telling, he's trying to convince people that he left his dad on really good terms and yet BW recognised that Nevill wasn't in the best of moods. Personally, I think it was because Jeremy left his father to finish a job he should have done and Nevill wasn't happy. He made a BIG thing of leaving the farm that day, making sure Len Foakes saw him leave and was aware that Nevill was bringing back the rape seed - there is something about the final interaction between Jeremy and Nevill that just doesn't ring true and I feel there is more to it. I don't believe that Nevill was happy with Jeremy when he left that night.

It appears to me that JB has been told about some of the concerns posters have here regarding things like - the phone call, the timing of the phone call, the rapeseed etc...

It appears he's written his blog in response to the above imo.
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: David1819 on October 30, 2015, 03:08:PM

His supporters are so biased he feels free to make up any BS without fear and they do exactly what he expects they will.

Its the other way round. He is at the mercy of what his supporters do.

Ever since Mike decided to go off on his own theories Jeremy has been reluctant or too paranoid to share information with anyone except his legal team.
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Steve_uk on October 30, 2015, 03:27:PM
Its the other way round. He is at the mercy of what his supporters do.

Ever since Mike decided to go off on his own theories Jeremy has been reluctant or too paranoid to share information with anyone except his legal team.
Mike is doing a better job than any "legal team"..
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Jane on October 30, 2015, 03:46:PM
Mike is doing a better job than any "legal team"..

I wonder why it's taken him all of 30 years to reveal that the "in joke" between him and his father was that they referred to each other as "Matey"?
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: guest154 on October 30, 2015, 03:55:PM
What a pile of rubbish. In the past Jeremy has said his Dad sounded "terrified" and "really scared" that should be reason enough why he took the call seriously.

But he didn't take the call seriously.

All that blog is trying to do is plug the holes in the story he knows exist, those that want to buy into that, will buy into that.
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Steve_uk on October 30, 2015, 04:04:PM
What a pile of rubbish. In the past Jeremy has said his Dad sounded "terrified" and "really scared" that should be reason enough why he took the call seriously.

But he didn't take the call seriously.

All that blog is trying to do is plug the holes in the story he knows exist, those that want to buy into that, will buy into that.
His "legal team" have evidently tried to induce him to recall anecdotes from his long long-lost idyllic bucolic childhood in an effort to humanize the individual and palliate the crime of slaughtering five,yet in the endeavour of embellishment they are doomed to failure as they impugn the bald facts of the case and aggravate an already hopeless cause..
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Caroline on October 30, 2015, 04:05:PM
It appears to me that JB has been told about some of the concerns posters have here regarding things like - the phone call, the timing of the phone call, the rapeseed etc...

It appears he's written his blog in response to the above imo.

There are eyes everywhere and walls have ears!  ;)
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Caroline on October 30, 2015, 04:08:PM
His "legal team" have evidently tried to induce him to recall anecdotes from his long long-lost idyllic bucolic childhood in an effort to humanize the individual and palliate the crime of slaughtering five,yet in the endeavour of embellishment they are doomed to failure as they impugn the bald facts of the case and aggravate an already hopeless cause..

I agree, the anecdotes just add salt to the wounds! Also the notion of him winning his freedom is somehow 'clearing his families name'? I don't get that - it just leaves a nasty taste!!
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: guest154 on October 30, 2015, 04:12:PM
His "legal team" have evidently tried to induce him to recall anecdotes from his long long-lost idyllic bucolic childhood in an effort to humanize the individual and palliate the crime of slaughtering five,yet in the endeavour of embellishment they are doomed to failure as they impugn the bald facts of the case and aggravate an already hopeless cause..

I agree that is happening here.  He's being advised to counter all the negative press that has surrounded his case recently, ironically that negative press is caused by his own campaign team.


I agree, the anecdotes just add salt to the wounds! Also the notion of him winning his freedom is somehow 'clearing his families name'? I don't get that - it just leaves a nasty taste!!

Yeah, it does doesn't it. This blog about how he took the call seriously, when he didn't and the blog about wanting to correct the lies about his family - well I'm sorry but the only people I have seen post lies about his family are supporters that he is in contact with, dodgy lot!

 
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: lookout on October 30, 2015, 04:22:PM
I wonder why it's taken him all of 30 years to reveal that the "in joke" between him and his father was that they referred to each other as "Matey"?






Because it's not as important a factor when 5 people had been murdered. You tend not to remember the " niceties " in life when that's hanging over you.
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: lookout on October 30, 2015, 04:24:PM
Mate,Matey has no relevance at all. It's more an afterthought when looking back over the years,otherwise it's of no importance.
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Caroline on October 30, 2015, 04:31:PM
Mate,Matey has no relevance at all. It's more an afterthought when looking back over the years,otherwise it's of no importance.

he has just MADE it relevant because now he's saying that because his father didn't use this nickname - he KNEW the incident must have been SERIOUS. You tend not to think of the niceties? Really? Because Jeremy is saying that he DID think of it - it was the REASON he knew things were SERIOUS.  ;) ;D ;D
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Jane on October 30, 2015, 04:36:PM
he has just MADE it relevant because now he's saying that because his father didn't use this nickname - he KNEW the incident must have been SERIOUS. You tend not to think of the niceties? Really? Because Jeremy is saying that he DID think of it - it was the REASON he knew things were SERIOUS.  ;) ;D ;D


Just as well he took his father's "phone call" seriously then, and didn't hang about, isn't it?
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: scipio_usmc on October 30, 2015, 04:40:PM
Its the other way round. He is at the mercy of what his supporters do.

Ever since Mike decided to go off on his own theories Jeremy has been reluctant or too paranoid to share information with anyone except his legal team.

He made this up not them. Some of the other things they ran with were made up by him as well which is why he now has to be more careful because as he is trying out lies to see which ones will be good they are busy publicizing them.

Some of his supporters are not real supporters they just want to use his case for their own purposes while he is trying to use the for his purposes so you have people who deserve eachother trying to use one another.
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: lookout on October 30, 2015, 04:41:PM
he has just MADE it relevant because now he's saying that because his father didn't use this nickname - he KNEW the incident must have been SERIOUS. You tend not to think of the niceties? Really? Because Jeremy is saying that he DID think of it - it was the REASON he knew things were SERIOUS.  ;) ;D ;D






I don't attach any importance to it at all.
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Caroline on October 30, 2015, 04:43:PM





I don't attach any importance to it at all.

No, but he did! And clearly still does!!  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Jane on October 30, 2015, 04:45:PM





I don't attach any importance to it at all.

It doesn't matter whether you do or not, Lookout. I imagine he may have, and I think it's hoped the majority will buy it.
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Caroline on October 30, 2015, 04:51:PM
It doesn't matter whether you do or not, Lookout. I imagine he may have, and I think it's hoped the majority will buy it.

It's just something else to boost the notion of the phone call - but people need to question why it took 30 years to make ANY mention of it - especially given that he's saying it's what made him realise that the situation was SERIOUS and yet he didn't call 999 or (according to the times he now giving) why it took 26 minutes to actually call the police? I guess he started laughing about the Film 80 joke all over agin and just lost track of time?  ::)
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: David1819 on October 30, 2015, 05:06:PM
He made this up not them. Some of the other things they ran with were made up by him as well which is why he now has to be more careful because as he is trying out lies to see which ones will be good they are busy publicizing them.

Some of his supporters are not real supporters they just want to use his case for their own purposes while he is trying to use the for his purposes so you have people who deserve eachother trying to use one another.

As far as I know he changed the time of the call in 2004. When he saw new police logs that's about it.

The exact time can never really be known as everything was recorded via pen and paper unlike today
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Caroline on October 30, 2015, 05:15:PM
As far as I know he changed the time of the call in 2004. When he saw new police logs that's about it.

The exact time can never really be known as everything was recorded via pen and paper unlike today

He didn't see new logs David - he saw the log that the jury saw and why should he change his argument that he DIDN'T call as late as 03:36 in 1985 - to he did in 2004? He thought he could hoodwink people into believing that there was a call from Nevill and some people fell for it.
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: scipio_usmc on October 30, 2015, 05:23:PM
As far as I know he changed the time of the call in 2004. When he saw new police logs that's about it.

The exact time can never really be known as everything was recorded via pen and paper unlike today

Clearly the real time was prior to 3:26 because 3:26 is when West had him on hold and called Bonnett.

He knew all along that West screwed up and wrote 3:36 this was discussed at trial during his testimony.  In 2004 is when Jeremy got the idea to use it to try to pretend Nevill called and thus to claim he called at 3:36 as West recorded.  He knew about the 3:36 entry prior but took until 2004 to craft a lie around it.

That lie actually hurts him with respect to the topic of this thread.  He claimed Nevill phoned 3:10-3:15 - saying he didn't call police until 3:36 is harmful no helpful to a claim he took a call from Nevill seriously and was worried by it.  Waiting so long tends to refute he received a call from Nevill.

He is using the 3:36 time though because his foolish supporters who claim this helps establish a call from Nevill and supports his innocence.  Legally the claim can't be made and is worthless but is being used fror propaganda purposes.  For people objective this is worthless because waiting so long to call police would simply make it even more clear Nevill never phoned him.  When you are surrounded by supporters who will accept anything without properly questioning it you are in a bubble and end up making up stupid things.  Using them to help you is hardly peer review you want to go to rational objective people to see how well revisionist things will poll with rational objective people.
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: David1819 on October 30, 2015, 05:37:PM
He didn't see new logs David - he saw the log that the jury saw and why should he change his argument that he DIDN'T call as late as 03:36 in 1985 - to he did in 2004? He thought he could hoodwink people into believing that there was a call from Nevill and some people fell for it.

From the phone logs. we have two separate times 3:26 and 3:36. If Neville did not call the police. then  police operators have made a mistake on the time this enables Jeremy to argue either way. Besides its another debate that's not going to prove anything. If Neville did call Jeremy I doubt he would have considered exactly what time it was when the call came only leaving him with a rough estimate to memory.

(http://i4.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article239792.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/jeremy-bamaber-police-phone-log-133519465.jpg)

All in all it wont determine anything.
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: lookout on October 30, 2015, 05:40:PM
Why write two out if there's carbon underneath each one ?
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: lookout on October 30, 2015, 05:44:PM
Somewhere it says there were 6 different ones ? A bit like the 4 silencers.
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: scipio_usmc on October 30, 2015, 06:16:PM
From the phone logs. we have two separate times 3:26 and 3:36. If Neville did not call the police. then  police operators have made a mistake on the time this enables Jeremy to argue either way. Besides its another debate that's not going to prove anything. If Neville did call Jeremy I doubt he would have considered exactly what time it was when the call came only leaving him with a rough estimate to memory.

(http://i4.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article239792.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/jeremy-bamaber-police-phone-log-133519465.jpg)

All in all it wont determine anything.

That West screwed up doesn't permit him to realistically argue either way.  Changing his claims just hurts him with rational objective people.

1) He claimed he received the call from Nevill around 3:15

2) He called Julie around 3AM even before the time he claims he received Nevill's call so this is a problem but he got people to say maybe he called a little later (so a slight chance he could have called after he supposedly claimed he received the call from Nevill) but surely no later than 3:30. 

3) He claimed he called Julie after he called police.

What does all this mean?

It means he needs to claim what he did at trial.  His lawyers said the call to police came prior to 3:26 because 3:26 is when West called Bonnett and that he was off the phone with police prior to 3:30 so then able to call Julie.  They said West recording his call at coming at 3:36 was an error.  This is how they tried to make his lie of calling Julie after police seem possible.  It also kept the gap between when he claimed to received the call from Nevill and time he called police to within 5-7 minutes. So though not immediate at least within a short amount to time.

Jeremy changing the time to 3:36 ends up causing a large gap between when he claimed to receive the call and finally called police.  If he called at 3:36 no way in hell did he call Julie after phoning police. Nor would he have had enough time to get dressed and get in front of police so they could pass him on the way to WHF so it is all an obvious lie simply to try to pretend Nevill called. 

The notion Nevill called before Jeremy is not credible at all because they would have told Jeremy and would not have asked Jeremy for the information they did (because they already would have gotten it from Nevill) nor would they have told police they were going because of a call from Jeremy had Nevill called.  Nor would firearms officers have received a briefing saying police never had any contact with anyone in the house but Jeremy alleged he received a call from Nevill. They would have been told Nevill called had he actually done so.  Thus Jeremy lies and puts himself in a bad position to pretend Nevill called though it is not in the least bit credible.  Not very bright...







 
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Caroline on October 30, 2015, 06:28:PM
From the phone logs. we have two separate times 3:26 and 3:36. If Neville did not call the police. then  police operators have made a mistake on the time this enables Jeremy to argue either way. Besides its another debate that's not going to prove anything. If Neville did call Jeremy I doubt he would have considered exactly what time it was when the call came only leaving him with a rough estimate to memory.

(http://i4.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article239792.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/jeremy-bamaber-police-phone-log-133519465.jpg)

All in all it wont determine anything.

I think West filled in someone of the details when he ended the call - the time being one of them.
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Jan on October 30, 2015, 06:34:PM
those times do not match up at all with julies original statement . So to pick and chose times to suit a scenario is pretty pointless .
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Caroline on October 30, 2015, 06:38:PM
those times do not match up at all with julies original statement . So to pick and chose times to suit a scenario is pretty pointless .

Well, that's what Jeremy is doing to fit in a call from Nevill!

Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: scipio_usmc on October 30, 2015, 06:54:PM
those times do not match up at all with julies original statement . So to pick and chose times to suit a scenario is pretty pointless .

You mean the statement she gave to help Jeremy that she gave before she spoke to her roommates to ask them what time he called since she didn't look at the clock herself?

Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: notsure on October 30, 2015, 06:57:PM
What im uncomfortable with is where it says ' got hold of one of my guns'

I realised you dan argue that point away but it doesnt feel right to me
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Caroline on October 30, 2015, 07:05:PM
What im uncomfortable with is where it says ' got hold of one of my guns'

I realised you dan argue that point away but it doesnt feel right to me

West simply paraphrased what Jeremy told him - the evidence for this is the word 'Berserk'. West used the word to Bonnet instead of 'crazy' - how do we know that? because West used the word in his rolling log of events as they unfolded.
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: lookout on October 30, 2015, 07:06:PM
What im uncomfortable with is where it says ' got hold of one of my guns'

I realised you dan argue that point away but it doesnt feel right to me






" One of my guns " and not my rifle ?
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Caroline on October 30, 2015, 07:08:PM





" One of my guns " and not my rifle ?

How is that relevant Lookout? The rifle was used to kill everyone!  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Stephanie on October 30, 2015, 07:09:PM
There are eyes everywhere and walls have ears!  ;)

Totally!  ;D
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: lookout on October 30, 2015, 07:16:PM
How is that relevant Lookout? The rifle was used to kill everyone!  ;D ;D ;D






If he'd said rifle he'd have meant the rifle. Because he only stipulated " gun " it could have been any one of them that Sheila was waving/threatening but not necessarily using,which we now know.
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Jane on October 30, 2015, 07:18:PM





" One of my guns " and not my rifle ?

Guns being a generic?
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: lookout on October 30, 2015, 07:19:PM
Guns being a generic?







But I feel pretty sure that Neville would have been precise.
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Jane on October 30, 2015, 07:21:PM






But I feel pretty sure that Neville would have been precise.

Yes, I'm quite certain that in a moment of panic he'd have been precise.
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Caroline on October 30, 2015, 07:24:PM





If he'd said rifle he'd have meant the rifle. Because he only stipulated " gun " it could have been any one of them that Sheila was waving/threatening but not necessarily using,which we now know.

And - not sure what your point is Lookout? West was paraphrasing but Jeremy also said gun - so?
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: lookout on October 30, 2015, 07:40:PM
And - not sure what your point is Lookout? West was paraphrasing but Jeremy also said gun - so?






It's as easy to say rifle as it is gun. It wouldn't have taken any more time.
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Caroline on October 30, 2015, 07:43:PM





It's as easy to say rifle as it is gun. It wouldn't have taken any more time.

OK, Jeremy said Nevill said 'gun', Jeremy repeated 'gun' to West, West said 'gun'.  Are you saying that Nevill should have said 'rifle'? If so I don't understand your point - basically you're arguing against Jeremy!  ;D
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: David1819 on October 30, 2015, 07:57:PM
West simply paraphrased what Jeremy told him - the evidence for this is the word 'Berserk'. West used the word to Bonnet instead of 'crazy' - how do we know that? because West used the word in his rolling log of events as they unfolded.

He is saying the two dogs are going bezerk
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Caroline on October 30, 2015, 08:01:PM
He is saying the two dogs are going bezerk

I know!! It's the USE of the SAME word that I'm talking about!!  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: lookout on October 30, 2015, 08:03:PM
OK, Jeremy said Nevill said 'gun', Jeremy repeated 'gun' to West, West said 'gun'.  Are you saying that Nevill should have said 'rifle'? If so I don't understand your point - basically you're arguing against Jeremy!  ;D






Not at all. Let's not forget that the shotgun was found lying around and it had Sheila's fingerprints on it,so that would be referred to as a gun as opposed to a rifle. But it doesn't mean to say that the shotgun was used because we know it wasn't,it would have been picked up by Sheila by way of a threat.
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Caroline on October 30, 2015, 08:09:PM





Not at all. Let's not forget that the shotgun was found lying around and it had Sheila's fingerprints on it,so that would be referred to as a gun as opposed to a rifle. But it doesn't mean to say that the shotgun was used because we know it wasn't,it would have been picked up by Sheila by way of a threat.

Where is the document that confirms Sheila's prints were on any shot gun? They didn't take any shots guns away so that's clearly yet another myth.
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: lookout on October 30, 2015, 08:15:PM
Where is the document that confirms Sheila's prints were on any shot gun? They didn't take any shots guns away so that's clearly yet another myth.






The shotgun was found by AE in the upstairs office and was broken. The document is around somewhere because it stated that 3 of the guns had Sheila's prints on them.
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: scipio_usmc on October 30, 2015, 08:16:PM
Where is the document that confirms Sheila's prints were on any shot gun? They didn't take any shots guns away so that's clearly yet another myth.

They did eventually take possession of the shot guns but no evidence has been put forth to establish her prints were found on any- the claim seems to have been made up by Jeremy supporters. 

Mike said he would post proof BUT- insert drumroll here- big surprise he never did...

Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Caroline on October 30, 2015, 08:18:PM
They did eventually take possession of the shot guns but no evidence has been put forth to establish her prints were found on any- the claim seems to have been made up by Jeremy supporters. 

Mike said he would post proof BUT- insert drumroll here- big surprise he never did...

I meant initially - I doubt any finger prints would have remained from Sheila even if she HAD touched the shotgun that late in the investigation. I don't know why people make these things up but it doesn't help anyone.
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: scipio_usmc on October 30, 2015, 08:19:PM
The shotgun was found by AE in the upstairs office and was broken. The document is around somewhere because it stated that 3 of the guns had Sheila's prints on them.

There are only allegations about shotguns having her prints on them no documents have been posted that establish it. Documents were posted establishing they fingerprinted shotguns not that her prints were found on any.   

Police took out the shotgun from the downstairs office closet and left it out in the "broken open" position.

Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Caroline on October 30, 2015, 08:24:PM
There are only allegations about shotguns having her prints on them no documents have been posted that establish it. Documents were posted establishing they fingerprinted shotguns not that her prints were found on any.   

Police took out the shotgun from the downstairs office closet and left it out in the "broken open" position.

It's become folklore!!  :D
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: scipio_usmc on October 30, 2015, 08:25:PM
I meant initially - I doubt any finger prints would have remained from Sheila even if she HAD touched the shotgun that late in the investigation. I don't know why people make these things up but it doesn't help anyone.

Some people are so desperate to convince others they will make up anything.  They use the notion that Sheila touched the shotguns for things ranging from claiming it proves she did like guns and had no problem handling them to claiming she collected all the weapons and was preparing to confront police with a variety of weapons.

You even have people claiming she was firing at Nevill in the fields with the shotguns after Jeremy went home but she missed.   
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Caroline on October 30, 2015, 08:33:PM
Some people are so desperate to convince others they will make up anything.  They use the notion that Sheila touched the shotguns for things ranging from claiming it proves she did like guns and had no problem handling them to claiming she collected all the weapons and was preparing to confront police with a variety of weapons.

You even have people claiming she was firing at Nevill in the fields with the shotguns after Jeremy went home but she missed.


That made me laugh!!  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: scipio_usmc on October 30, 2015, 08:44:PM
That made me laugh!!  ;D ;D

Oh even funnier some claim she did hit him and that he had damage to his clothing and/or body from buckshot.  I forgot about those claims.

Just look at how they spin though.  They take the claim of the neighbor thinking he heart a shotgun being fired; the bogus claim of her prints being found on a shotgun; the unfired Raker shotgun shell found in the closet in a box, misrepresent that it was a spent casing that popped out of the shotgun with her prints when it was opened by police and claimed this proves Sheila shot at Nevill.   This is the kind of crap that shows they have nothing legitimate to raise to defend Jeremy because if they did then they would be raising it instead of resorting to such desperate nonsense.

Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Caroline on October 30, 2015, 09:05:PM
Oh even funnier some claim she did hit him and that he had damage to his clothing and/or body from buckshot.  I forgot about those claims.

Just look at how they spin though.  They take the claim of the neighbor thinking he heart a shotgun being fired; the bogus claim of her prints being found on a shotgun; the unfired Raker shotgun shell found in the closet in a box, misrepresent that it was a spent casing that popped out of the shotgun with her prints when it was opened by police and claimed this proves Sheila shot at Nevill.   This is the kind of crap that shows they have nothing legitimate to raise to defend Jeremy because if they did then they would be raising it instead of resorting to such desperate nonsense.

I guess it's like the CT who recently claimed they HAVE compelling evidence that will be submitted to the CCRC very soon, on the one hand - yet on the other, have a petition to have documents released that they are sure will free Jeremy. If they have compelling evidence, where is it and why the need for the petition? I kind of screams 'we don't have anything but we're desperate to find SOMETHING'!
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: guest154 on October 30, 2015, 09:09:PM
I guess it's like the CT who recently claimed they HAVE compelling evidence that will be submitted to the CCRC very soon, on the one hand - yet on the other, have a petition to have documents released that they are sure will free Jeremy. If they have compelling evidence, where is it and why the need for the petition? I kind of screams 'we don't have anything but we're desperate to find SOMETHING'!

And we're meant to believe them. And are teased for not doing so!  ;D
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: scipio_usmc on October 30, 2015, 09:11:PM
I guess it's like the CT who recently claimed they HAVE compelling evidence that will be submitted to the CCRC very soon, on the one hand - yet on the other, have a petition to have documents released that they are sure will free Jeremy. If they have compelling evidence, where is it and why the need for the petition? I kind of screams 'we don't have anything but we're desperate to find SOMETHING'!

That is rather like their claim that they know police are concealing evidence proving they framed him and if the police would release this evidence then they would be able to prove his innocence.  You have to see all the evidence and find proof he was framed among it in order to know police have evidence they framed him and were keeping a secret.

Of course it is ludicrous to believe they would create any documents establishing they framed him let alone retain such documents.  So the basis upon which they operate doesn't make sense on so many levels.

Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: guest154 on October 30, 2015, 09:14:PM
That is rather like their claim that they know police are concealing evidence proving they framed him and if the police would release this evidence then they would be able to prove his innocence.  You have to see all the evidence and find proof he was framed among it in order to know police have evidence they framed him and were keeping a secret.

Of course it is ludicrous to believe they would create any documents establishing they framed him let alone retain such documents.  So the basis upon which they operate doesn't make sense on so many levels.

Yes it makes no sense, are they expecting to find a document, hand written by conspirators documenting the plan for the frame job, a document that was then put in the case file!  ;D Wanting things released because they may contain information relevant to innocence doesn't make much sense to e.
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Jane on October 30, 2015, 09:19:PM
Yes it makes no sense, are they expecting to find a document, hand written by conspirators documenting the plan for the frame job, a document that was then put in the case file!  ;D Wanting things released because they may contain information relevant to innocence doesn't make much sense to e.

Would that be the hand written document stating "It wuz us wot dun it"?
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: guest154 on October 30, 2015, 09:20:PM
Would that be the hand written document stating "It wuz us wot dun it"?

Yes, I believe that's the one.
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Caroline on October 30, 2015, 09:33:PM
Would that be the hand written document stating "It wuz us wot dun it"?

yes, it's in a envelope marked 'Shhhhh'
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Jan on October 30, 2015, 09:48:PM
Well, that's what Jeremy is doing to fit in a call from Nevill!


really!!!

If he is innocent he does not know whether his father called or not. Fact!!!!

So he might be using sloppy police logs to say he did. If he is innocent its worth a TRY!!!!!!
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Caroline on October 30, 2015, 09:54:PM

really!!!

If he is innocent he does not know whether his father called or not. Fact!!!!

So he might be using sloppy police logs to say he did. If he is innocent its worth a TRY!!!!!!

Yes really!!!
He adamantly refuted that he called the police as late as 03:36 at the trial - now he's saying it WAS 03:36 - FACT!!!

Oh he's certainly USING the logs (sloppy or not) to pull the wool.
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: guest154 on October 30, 2015, 09:56:PM

really!!!

If he is innocent he does not know whether his father called or not. Fact!!!!

So he might be using sloppy police logs to say he did. If he is innocent its worth a TRY!!!!!!

So Jeremy expects us to believe that his Father called the police before he did, yet no one bothered to mention this to him when he called that night. When the police were still investigating this as a murder/suicide all they had to say to the relatives, who had doubts, was that Neville had called that night - so Bamber had an alibi. Bamber expects us to believe this?  Does he think we're idiots?
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Caroline on October 30, 2015, 09:59:PM
So Jeremy expects us to believe that his Father called the police before he did, yet no one bothered to mention this to him when he called that night. When the police were still investigating this as a murder/suicide all they had to say to the relatives, who had doubts, was that Neville had called that night - so Bamber had an alibi. Bamber expects us to believe this?  Does he think we're idiots?

'Some' people might/do believe it but the CCRC won't.
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: guest154 on October 30, 2015, 10:00:PM
'Some' people might/do believe it but the CCRC won't.

It would be embarrassing to even present it to them, I don't think Bamber will.
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Caroline on October 30, 2015, 10:06:PM
It would be embarrassing to even present it to them, I don't think Bamber will.

Thing is, if he can get a court to believe the phone call happened - he's out. However ........... with what he has now, there is no chance.
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Jan on October 30, 2015, 10:15:PM
So Jeremy expects us to believe that his Father called the police before he did, yet no one bothered to mention this to him when he called that night. When the police were still investigating this as a murder/suicide all they had to say to the relatives, who had doubts, was that Neville had called that night - so Bamber had an alibi. Bamber expects us to believe this?  Does he think we're idiots?

I never said I thought the call existed . what I was saying is that after 30 years of trying to prove your innocence one may become desperate.
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: guest154 on October 30, 2015, 10:18:PM
I never said I thought the call existed . what I was saying is that after 30 years of trying to prove your innocence one may become desperate.

No, you didn't say that it exists - but that is what Bamber is asking people to buy into.

do you think his Father called the police that night?
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Caroline on October 30, 2015, 10:18:PM
I never said I thought the call existed . what I was saying is that after 30 years of trying to prove your innocence one may become desperate.

he would be well advised not to use up a submission with desperate claims because it will be a waste and he can't afford to do it.
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: David1819 on October 30, 2015, 10:39:PM
So Jeremy expects us to believe that his Father called the police before he did, yet no one bothered to mention this to him when he called that night. When the police were still investigating this as a murder/suicide all they had to say to the relatives, who had doubts, was that Neville had called that night - so Bamber had an alibi. Bamber expects us to believe this?  Does he think we're idiots?


Considering they used a strowger exchange line. The only possible scenario of Neville calling the police would be that he rang the local police and they identified Neville as Mr Bamber and later Jeremy Bamber rang, So you have Mr Bamber and Jeremy Bamber calling but go down on the assumption they were the same call same person. For this to happen would require the police telephone operator to be someone like trigger from fools and horses or something. 
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: guest154 on October 30, 2015, 10:54:PM

Considering they used a strowger exchange line. The only possible scenario of Neville calling the police would be that he rang the local police and they identified Neville as Mr Bamber and later Jeremy Bamber rang, So you have Mr Bamber and Jeremy Bamber calling but go down on the assumption they were the same call same person. For this to happen would require the police telephone operator to be someone like trigger from fools and horses or something.

I'm sure even he would get it.  ;D
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: scipio_usmc on October 30, 2015, 11:19:PM

really!!!

If he is innocent he does not know whether his father called or not. Fact!!!!

So he might be using sloppy police logs to say he did. If he is innocent its worth a TRY!!!!!!

There is not a chance he is innocent but even if her were innocent he would know his father didn't call the police before he did because police would have handled things very differently including telling him about such call and that help was already ont he way instead of asking him things they already would have obtained from Nevill.

Anyone who suggests they would have asked Nevill's address, phone number, age, the age of Sheila etc from Jeremy after speaking to Nevill already are full of crap.   

Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Jan on October 31, 2015, 12:10:AM
No, you didn't say that it exists - but that is what Bamber is asking people to buy into.

do you think his Father called the police that night?

Probably not . 

Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Jan on October 31, 2015, 12:14:AM
Yes really!!!
He adamantly refuted that he called the police as late as 03:36 at the trial - now he's saying it WAS 03:36 - FACT!!!

Oh he's certainly USING the logs (sloppy or not) to pull the wool.
FACT JULIE completely changed her timings
FACT the police have a ten minute discrepancy as we all know .
FACT Jeremy in the beginning said his timings were approximate
FACT that 1/2hour plus  is a mess .



Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Adam on October 31, 2015, 07:06:AM
So Jeremy expects us to believe that his Father called the police before he did, yet no one bothered to mention this to him when he called that night. When the police were still investigating this as a murder/suicide all they had to say to the relatives, who had doubts, was that Neville had called that night - so Bamber had an alibi. Bamber expects us to believe this?  Does he think we're idiots?

Agree with that.
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Adam on October 31, 2015, 07:11:AM
I never said I thought the call existed . what I was saying is that after 30 years of trying to prove your innocence one may become desperate.

Agree with that to.

It is a desperate allegation. But got his case onto the front page of The Daily Mirror.

The withholding evidence claims is also desperate. The current released evidence from the last 30 years can't release him, even on a technicality. So recent press releases have been about baked cakes etc.

There is no prove there are missing documents, but Bamber has instructed his supporters to spread the word.
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Caroline on October 31, 2015, 11:36:AM
FACT JULIE completely changed her timings
FACT the police have a ten minute discrepancy as we all know .
FACT Jeremy in the beginning said his timings were approximate
FACT that 1/2hour plus  is a mess .

FACT - Julie initially supported his story so went with his timings
FACT - West has a 10 minute discrepancy, Bonnet does not
FACT - he initially argued that he called the police before 03:36
FACT - he can't account for 26 minutes
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: scipio_usmc on October 31, 2015, 03:31:PM
FACT - Julie initially supported his story so went with his timings
FACT - West has a 10 minute discrepancy, Bonnet does not
FACT - he initially argued that he called the police before 03:36
FACT - he can't account for 26 minutes

Indeed his original timings were:

Nevill phoned him about 3:10
He phoned police around 3:15
He phoned Julie around 3:25

At trial the defense maintained he called police at least 4-5 minutes prior to 3:26, that he was off the phone with police prior to 3:30 and that he called Julie by 3:30 after getting off the phone with the police.

So while he originally said he called police around 3:15 the defense looked at the evidence and was willing to admit maybe it was actually around 3:20-3:21 which is only 5-6 minutes off so not far off thus not that significant.

To say he actually called at 3:36 not 3:20-3:21 is way off.  His revisionist claim is way off, creates a sizable time gap between when Nevill supposedly called him and he finally called police, would make it impossible for him to have called Julie after getting off the phone with police because every single account is that no way did his call to Julie come after 3:30, and in total the call would have to have lasted no more than 3 minutes including his time on hold because the call was definitely ended by 3:39.  It is quite obvious the revisionism is to pretend that Nevill contacted police and just harms his credibility and causes more problems it doesn't help him. 
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Stephanie on October 31, 2015, 03:44:PM
http://jeremybamber.blogspot.co.uk/
"And so the cycle went on that is until we got back to the van. From then on we called each other ‘Matey’ which fairly quickly was shortened to ‘Mate’. Right up to the 6th August 1985 and my going home leaving dad to collect the last trailer of rape seed from the combine at 10:00pm and leave it for me to tip and process in the morning. My last words to dad when I left that evening were, “Thanks Mate, I’ll see you in the morning.” I said a “Good night” to mum and Sheila and off I went.

In a way, looking back now, I can see why dad’s call to me prompted my phone call to the police at 03:36am. The reason why I took his telephone call so seriously. I have always felt that it was because I’d tried to ring him back to find out more information and my getting the engaged signal each time I did so. Not being able to call dad back to speak to him may have been part of it, but subconsciously I’d have known it was serious due to him not using the term “Matey” during our short conversation.

Obviously this is not a point to be taken to the Appeal Court, it would mean nothing to them, but to dad and I our 'in' joke was important to both of us on so many levels. In order for me to clear all of our names, I’ve had to try to understand everything, including my actions and motivations.


"But to dad and I our 'in ' joke was important to both of us on so many levels"

How and why was this 'in' joke so important on so many levels? What is he talking about? What levels?

And what about his. "Actions and motivations?" Is this a subtle hint of his guilt?

What's he talking about?

I think he could be telling porkies about the rapeseed...
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Stephanie on October 31, 2015, 03:52:PM

"But to dad and I our 'in ' joke was important to both of us on so many levels"

How and why was this 'in' joke so important on so many levels? What is he talking about? What levels?

And what about his. "Actions and motivations?" Is this a subtle hint of his guilt?

What's he talking about?

I think he could be telling porkies about the rapeseed...

We do know that Bamber left the farmhouse for Bourtree Cottage at about 9.30pm – neighbour Dorothy Foakes heard his car speeding down the lane. By then, all was not well at the farm.
Nevill was uncharacteristically brusque with his secretary Barbara Wilson when she phoned just after 9.30pm, and neither June nor Sheila were themselves when Pamela Boutflour, June’s sister, called just before 10pm. Barbara was under the impression that she had interrupted a row.
Dorothy's husband Len was the last person to see any member of the household alive. At about 10.15pm he saw Nevill on his tractor, collecting the last of the rapeseed harvest. The house was fully secured on the ground floor that night. Two external doors had been bolted from the inside and the rear door was fastened with a
mortice lock.
All ground-floor windows were fastened except the dairy window, which was protected by a metal mesh. Upstairs, the window in Nevill and June’s bedroom was slightly open at the top.
Bamber telephoned his girlfriend Julie Mugford from Bourtree Cottage at about 10pm. He sounded angry, telling her: ‘I’ve been thinking on the tractor and the crime will have to be tonight or never.’
Aware that he was talking about killing his entire family, Julie told him not to be stupid.
At the end of the 20-minute conversation, he told her she might hear from him later, although Julie ‘thought nothing of this’.



Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3166636/Bamber-slaughtered-family-25-bullets-told-girlfriend-s-going-years-investigation-leading-author-tell-exactly-happened-night-White-House-Farm-massacre.html#ixzz3qA3j45Ky
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Stephanie on October 31, 2015, 03:56:PM
We do know that Bamber left the farmhouse for Bourtree Cottage at about 9.30pm – neighbour Dorothy Foakes heard his car speeding down the lane. By then, all was not well at the farm.
Nevill was uncharacteristically brusque with his secretary Barbara Wilson when she phoned just after 9.30pm, and neither June nor Sheila were themselves when Pamela Boutflour, June’s sister, called just before 10pm. Barbara was under the impression that she had interrupted a row.
Dorothy's husband Len was the last person to see any member of the household alive. At about 10.15pm he saw Nevill on his tractor, collecting the last of the rapeseed harvest. The house was fully secured on the ground floor that night. Two external doors had been bolted from the inside and the rear door was fastened with a
mortice lock.
All ground-floor windows were fastened except the dairy window, which was protected by a metal mesh. Upstairs, the window in Nevill and June’s bedroom was slightly open at the top.
Bamber telephoned his girlfriend Julie Mugford from Bourtree Cottage at about 10pm. He sounded angry, telling her: ‘I’ve been thinking on the tractor and the crime will have to be tonight or never.’
Aware that he was talking about killing his entire family, Julie told him not to be stupid.
At the end of the 20-minute conversation, he told her she might hear from him later, although Julie ‘thought nothing of this’.



Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3166636/Bamber-slaughtered-family-25-bullets-told-girlfriend-s-going-years-investigation-leading-author-tell-exactly-happened-night-White-House-Farm-massacre.html#ixzz3qA3j45Ky

So what time was it?

9.30pm or 10.00pm?

"Right up to the 6th August 1985 and my going home leaving dad to collect the last trailer of rape seed from the combine at 10:00pm and leave it for me to tip and process in the morning. My last words to dad when I left that evening were, “Thanks Mate, I’ll see you in the morning.” I said a “Good night” to mum and Sheila and off I went."


http://jeremybamber.blogspot.co.uk
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Stephanie on October 31, 2015, 04:02:PM
Mike wrote on 23rd March 2014

"I don't recall that Jeremy ever said he had seen rabbits from the kitchen. Since, on the occasions I have spoken to him about this he told me that on his return from the field driving the farm tractor and trailer (rape seed), that he saw rabbits near the barn, before he went into the farmhouse. Upon going into the kitchen he walked into a debate going on involving his parents and Sheila, about getting Sheila some sort of help because her parents were saying, that Sheila was not well enough to look after them both all by herself. They were talking about getting her some help from her social worker, and things of that nature - and Sheila said nothing at all. Jeremy by this stage had collected the family rifle, and a box of ammunition, which he took into the kitchen and proceeded to load rounds into the guns ammunition magazine. He then left the farmhouse and went out towards the barn area intending to shoot the rabbits he had seen earlier, but by the time he got there, the rabbits had ran off..."

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,5185.msg223546.html#msg223546
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Stephanie on October 31, 2015, 04:04:PM
Who collected the rape seed?

Neville or Jeremy?
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Caroline on October 31, 2015, 04:04:PM
So what time was it?

9.30pm or 10.00pm?

"Right up to the 6th August 1985 and my going home leaving dad to collect the last trailer of rape seed from the combine at 10:00pm and leave it for me to tip and process in the morning. My last words to dad when I left that evening were, “Thanks Mate, I’ll see you in the morning.” I said a “Good night” to mum and Sheila and off I went."


http://jeremybamber.blogspot.co.uk

I think hey had an argument because Jeremy refused to complete the last load and left it to his dad. If Len Foakes had been able to speak to Nevill that night, we might have known more!  :-\
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Caroline on October 31, 2015, 04:06:PM
Who collected the rape seed?

Neville or Jeremy?

Nevill must have because Len Foakes saw him. However, Jeremy is evasive on this issue in his statement, so I think there is more to this incident.
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Stephanie on October 31, 2015, 04:12:PM
Nevill must have because Len Foakes saw him. However, Jeremy is evasive on this issue in his statement, so I think there is more to this incident.

I agree and I think that's another reason he has decided to blog about it now - some 30 years later  ::)

Something doesn't add up does it?
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Stephanie on October 31, 2015, 04:20:PM
I cannot find Len Foakes statement?
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Caroline on October 31, 2015, 04:31:PM
I cannot find Len Foakes statement?

No, it's not on here it's in Carol Ann Lee's book. Jeremy took the trailer to the field and walked back (not sure why he couldn't have waited until it was loaded), then walked back to the house. He said he asked Nevill if he would collect it and then told Len Foakes that his father would get the last loy and he (Jeremy) would process it in the morning. Len said he saw Nevill on the tractor at 10pm and Dorothy Foakes said she heard Jeramy drive away at 09:30pm. 
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: scipio_usmc on October 31, 2015, 04:40:PM
I agree and I think that's another reason he has decided to blog about it now - some 30 years later  ::)

Something doesn't add up does it?

It seems pretty simple, he and his father had a spat both were pissed off by it- both conveyed it over the phone their last phone calls before the murders and Jeremy being pissed off likely gave him the kick he needed to actually carry out the murders. He planned it and wanted to do it but needed that final push to actually get him to do it.
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Stephanie on October 31, 2015, 04:42:PM
No, it's not on here it's in Carol Ann Lee's book. Jeremy took the trailer to the field and walked back (not sure why he couldn't have waited until it was loaded), then walked back to the house. He said he asked Nevill if he would collect it and then told Len Foakes that his father would get the last loy and he (Jeremy) would process it in the morning. Len said he saw Nevill on the tractor at 10pm and Dorothy Foakes said she heard Jeramy drive away at 09:30pm.

Why had JB mentioned the time 10.00pm in his blog? I feel it's relevant somehow? I feel he's attempting to plant a seed....
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Stephanie on October 31, 2015, 04:45:PM
No, it's not on here it's in Carol Ann Lee's book. Jeremy took the trailer to the field and walked back (not sure why he couldn't have waited until it was loaded), then walked back to the house. He said he asked Nevill if he would collect it and then told Len Foakes that his father would get the last loy and he (Jeremy) would process it in the morning. Len said he saw Nevill on the tractor at 10pm and Dorothy Foakes said she heard Jeramy drive away at 09:30pm.

Thanks btw...  ;D

Something's bothering me.....

So JB planted in Len Foakes mind that Neville would get the rape seed in? Was Len 100% certain he had seen Neville on the tractor?

JB drives off at speed at around 9.30pm? How do we know he didn't stop somewhere up the road and walk back at this point?

Hasn't he already left the gun and bullets out at this point..

Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Steve_uk on October 31, 2015, 04:54:PM
Thanks btw...  ;D

Something's bothering me.....

So JB planted in Len Foakes mind that Neville would get the rape seed in? Was Len 100% certain he had seen Neville on the tractor?

JB drives off at speed at around 9.30pm? How do we know he didn't stop somewhere up the road and walk back at this point?

Hasn't he already left the gun and bullets out at this point..
His car was seen outside Bourtree Cottage all night so he would have had to walk to the Farm or use the now infamous bicycle.
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Stephanie on October 31, 2015, 04:57:PM
His car was seen outside Bourtree Cottage all night so he would have had to walk to the Farm or use the now infamous bicycle.

I would like to see witness statements confirming this....

Only I don't believe what has been written on the OS:

"At Jeremy's trial, the Prosecution had to overcome the problem that no one saw anyone on the roads or paths that night who fitted Jeremy’s description. Police accounted for every section of roads and paths, interviewing over 500 people in a determined effort to place Jeremy between the two houses.  Neighbours had seen Jeremy’s car outside his house all night. The investigation had been fruitless. This factor, coupled with the absence of any evidence linking Jeremy to the scene, the Prosecution had to be more creative in their thinking."

The above means nothing IMHO...

The same was said in the SH case which we now know to be wrong.
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Jane on October 31, 2015, 05:05:PM
I would like to see witness statements confirming this....

Only I don't believe what has been written on the OS:

"At Jeremy's trial, the Prosecution had to overcome the problem that no one saw anyone on the roads or paths that night who fitted Jeremy’s description. Police accounted for every section of roads and paths, interviewing over 500 people in a determined effort to place Jeremy between the two houses.  Neighbours had seen Jeremy’s car outside his house all night. The investigation had been fruitless. This factor, coupled with the absence of any evidence linking Jeremy to the scene, the Prosecution had to be more creative in their thinking."

The above means nothing IMHO...

The same was said in the SH case which we now know to be wrong.


Nor would they have been likely to, Steph. It's an area where, if you want to avoid being seen, there are plenty of ways of doing it.
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Steve_uk on October 31, 2015, 05:07:PM
I would have thought a car would be more likely to have been seen.
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Stephanie on October 31, 2015, 05:10:PM

Nor would they have been likely to, Steph. It's an area where, if you want to avoid being seen, there are plenty of ways of doing it.

Which I believe to be true Jane.

I am not taking what has been written on the OS to be fact nor would I suggest others do either. ..
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: maggie on October 31, 2015, 05:11:PM

Nor would they have been likely to, Steph. It's an area where, if you want to avoid being seen, there are plenty of ways of doing it.
Hi Jane, I live in a country area and away from the main roads it's pitch back at night, to the point you would be disorientated almost immediately.  Is it the same on the route Jeremy would have taken?
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Stephanie on October 31, 2015, 05:13:PM
I would have thought a car would be more likely to have been seen.

Who are all these people that saw the car parked outside all night?

Maybe they remember the car being parked there on another night and not the night in question?

As I said previously, I don't believe anyone should be taking this point at fact.
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Jane on October 31, 2015, 05:21:PM
Hi Jane, I live in a country area and away from the main roads it's pitch back at night, to the point you would be disorientated almost immediately.  Is it the same on the route Jeremy would have taken?

Maggie, if you spend your life in such a place, you know it like the back of your hand. There where untold ways in which -on foot- he could have hidden himself. A car would just be one other vehicle.
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Steve_uk on October 31, 2015, 05:25:PM
Maggie, if you spend your life in such a place, you know it like the back of your hand. There where untold ways in which -on foot- he could have hidden himself. A car would just be one other vehicle.
I'm not sure what you mean by "just one other vehicle". Surely the sound of any car engine would be heard at 2am by someone in that row of cottages..
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: maggie on October 31, 2015, 05:29:PM
Maggie, if you spend your life in such a place, you know it like the back of your hand. There where untold ways in which -on foot- he could have hidden himself. A car would just be one other vehicle.
I understand but I know the area I live in like the back of y hand but without moonlight it is completely black and I would be lost in no time.
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Jane on October 31, 2015, 05:35:PM
I'm not sure what you mean by "just one other vehicle". Surely the sound of any car engine would be heard at 2am by someone in that row of cottages..

Sorry Steve. Once you get onto the main road -it's actually a B road- there is traffic. Not masses, but it's a route between Colchester and Maldon. At night, with the houses facing the road, one car going past, IF it's noticed, is going to look much like another. If it's particularly "throaty" it will have gone past before it can be seen.
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Stephanie on October 31, 2015, 05:37:PM
I'm not sure what you mean by "just one other vehicle". Surely the sound of any car engine would be heard at 2am by someone in that row of cottages..

Not if they slept sound. And I'm sure he wasn't home in bed every night by 10-10.30pm. I'm sure the neighbours would have got used to JB's care driving past at all hours.

Unless you believe the neighbours sat up all night keeping tabs on when his car was and wasn't there? Unlikely imo.
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Jane on October 31, 2015, 05:38:PM
I understand but I know the area I live in like the back of y hand but without moonlight it is completely black and I would be lost in no time.

Then I guess, over time, Jeremy may have taken many a wetting when he tumbled off the sea wall at night ;D........................Ooooh!!! Just noticed the new and expressive "faces".
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Steve_uk on October 31, 2015, 05:49:PM
Not if they slept sound. And I'm sure he wasn't home in bed every night by 10-10.30pm. I'm sure the neighbours would have got used to JB's care driving past at all hours.

Unless you believe the neighbours sat up all night keeping tabs on when his car was and wasn't there? Unlikely imo.
It's too risky taking the car. There are the farm cottages near the White House as well as the occupants inside hearing the engine.
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: maggie on October 31, 2015, 05:56:PM
Then I guess, over time, Jeremy may have taken many a wetting when he tumbled off the sea wall at night ;D........................Ooooh!!! Just noticed the new and expressive "faces".
Not with a torch but if he didn't want to be seen he wouldn't have any lights whether walking or biking, would he? :-\
Yes, we have, what d'you think?   ;D
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Stephanie on October 31, 2015, 06:08:PM
It's too risky taking the car. There are the farm cottages near the White House as well as the occupants inside hearing the engine.

I'll use the word 'fluke' - there were no guarantees he would have been heard.... It wasn't a built up area.. And even in built up areas cars 'can' drive past unnoticed by anyone... It does happen...
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Jane on October 31, 2015, 06:09:PM
 :)
Not with a torch but if he didn't want to be seen he wouldn't have any lights whether walking or biking, would he? :-\
Yes, we have, what d'you think?   ;D

Well, I guess that's something that he may have practised as part of dotting "I's" and crossing "T's". I think they're more obviously expressive than their forbears, but what does ^-^(Azn) mean :-\ :-\ :-\
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Stephanie on October 31, 2015, 06:11:PM
Yes, we have, what d'you think?   ;D

 
>:D >:D S  >:D >:D P  >:D >:D O  >:D >:D O  >:D >:D K  >:D >:D Y
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Jane on October 31, 2015, 06:12:PM
I'll use the word 'fluke' - there were no guarantees he would have been heard.... It wasn't a built up area.. And even in built up areas cars 'can' drive past unnoticed by anyone... It does happen...

I'd agree with that. It simply wouldn't have been possible for him to allow for all possibilities...................especially the ones that hadn't occurred to him to need to.
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Stephanie on October 31, 2015, 06:20:PM
I'd agree with that. It simply wouldn't have been possible for him to allow for all possibilities...................especially the ones that hadn't occurred to him to need to.

From experience - I now know that it's quite possible he could have taken the car and not been seen; even with the lights on...


Infact - today, if he had his hazards flashing and went at top speed, it's still possible he wouldn't have been seen or heard... People no longer seem to take notice of these things. It's possible they didn't then.

Not everyone 'curtain twitches' or sees and hears everything going on around them...
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Steve_uk on October 31, 2015, 06:51:PM

Hahaha. Serves you right for being an intellectual snob, doesn't it ;) ;) :)) :)) :-* :-*
Can we delete these past three posts please..
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Jane on October 31, 2015, 06:58:PM
Can we delete these past three posts please..


There ya go Steve. Deleted!!! Just for YOU!!!! Don't say I never do anything for you :D
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Steve_uk on October 31, 2015, 07:18:PM

There ya go Steve. Deleted!!! Just for YOU!!!! Don't say I never do anything for you :D
Thank you. I was certainly not criticizing anyone on this site. Just I can't believe Jeremy would risk taking the car living as he did in a row of houses with the car parked in full view. Along with him hinting to Julie beforehand what he was planning I'm surprised he didn't put a small advert in the local newspaper as in the plot of Agatha Christie's "A Murder is Announced".
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Stephanie on October 31, 2015, 07:23:PM
Thank you. I was certainly not criticizing anyone on this site. Just I can't believe Jeremy would risk taking the car living as he did in a row of houses with the car parked in full view. Along with him hinting to Julie beforehand what he was planning I'm surprised he didn't put a small advert in the local newspaper as in the plot of Agatha Christie's "A Murder is Announced".

I missed the posts you asked to be deleted but I totally disagree with you Steve (think you've watched too many movies?.

I've seen the entire disclosure in relation to another case where the 'siting of the car' was completely missed, and in a built up area.

So no advert required - these things can happen IMHO.

JB wasn't a professional, if he had been he wouldn't have been caught...
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Jane on October 31, 2015, 07:38:PM
Thank you. I was certainly not criticizing anyone on this site. Just I can't believe Jeremy would risk taking the car living as he did in a row of houses with the car parked in full view. Along with him hinting to Julie beforehand what he was planning I'm surprised he didn't put a small advert in the local newspaper as in the plot of Agatha Christie's "A Murder is Announced".

Steve, just to be clear. What's the time frame you're talking about? I think people often see what they expect to see, ergo if a car is outside a house most nights, they'll assume it's there. Having said that, I don't believe, that having left WHF circa 9.30, he returned in the car.
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Steve_uk on October 31, 2015, 07:41:PM
I missed the posts you asked to be deleted but I totally disagree with you Steve (think you've watched too many movies?.

I've seen the entire disclosure in relation to another case where the 'siting of the car' was completely missed, and in a built up area.

So no advert required - these things can happen IMHO.

JB wasn't a professional, if he had been he wouldn't have been caught...
But Jeremy is not parking his car round the side of Waterstones in Deansgate,Manchester on a Saturday night. Isn't this a rural area where everybody knows everyone else's business or have I missed something?
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Jane on October 31, 2015, 07:50:PM
But Jeremy is not parking his car round the side of Waterstones in Deansgate,Manchester on a Saturday night. Isn't this a rural area where everybody knows everyone else's business or have I missed something?

Steve, I'm inclined to think the locals were so used to Jeremy's comings and goings that, whilst he possibly wasn't the most popular guy in the village, there probably weren't smudges on the inside of village windows, from the noses of neighbours watching his movements.
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Stephanie on October 31, 2015, 07:53:PM
But Jeremy is not parking his car round the side of Waterstones in Deansgate,Manchester on a Saturday night. Isn't this a rural area where everybody knows everyone else's business or have I missed something?

I think you've missed something...

Sounds to me as though you are basing this on your own experiences? Or those you've read/seen about.

You can live in a rural area where everybody knows everybody and not know everyone's business.
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Steve_uk on October 31, 2015, 08:05:PM
I think you've missed something...

Sounds to me as though you are basing this on your own experiences? Or those you've read/seen about.

You can live in a rural area where everybody knows everybody and not know everyone's business.
I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Stephanie on October 31, 2015, 08:24:PM
Steve, I'm inclined to think the locals were so used to Jeremy's comings and goings that, whilst he possibly wasn't the most popular guy in the village, there probably weren't smudges on the inside of village windows, from the noses of neighbours watching his movements.

Agreed...
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Stephanie on October 31, 2015, 08:27:PM
I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

Up to you but I can't help but wonder if your view on this point is bias..

I know what the rural roads are like out near WHF - I'm not that far away. The rural roads round here aren't dissimilar..
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Steve_uk on October 31, 2015, 08:29:PM
Maybe Caroline can set up a poll,as with the faux furlined grandad slippers..
Title: Re: Why Jeremy Took Nevill's call so SERIOUSLY??
Post by: Stephanie on October 31, 2015, 08:30:PM
Maybe Caroline can set up a poll,as with the faux furlined grandad slippers..

No need for a poll - just the need to be objective imo.