Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: Martin on February 09, 2013, 09:34:AM
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Are Steve_uk and starryian helping the police?
Consider this very good post from Lookout and Steve‘s typically evasive response to it.
Lookout
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,3851.msg159635.html#msg159635
“Steve,,,would you really argue against what the pathologist had stated,,,,,that Sheila had died at about 7am.? You see,,there was fresh " oxygenated " blood still pouring from her wound/s. Oxygenated being bright red as we know,,and not the black/brown hue that you'd get from someone having been dead for hours.”
Steve_uk
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,3851.msg159641.html#msg159641
“Can you post all these documents lookout, along with Sheila's £40,000 drug debts. As far as I was aware Sheila's body was moved if only to check for a pulse and it was then that the fresh plugs of blood occurred.”
He changes the subject. If the question of the pathologists evidence arises Steve will probably change the subject to that of Sheila’s medication or something else. Lookout hadn’t said anything in her post about Sheila’s drug debts. He sets things up for a dismissive comment. He thinks he’s talking down to people.
The expression “fresh plugs of blood” does not imply that the blood itself is fresh. Steve is deliberately confusing the issue. So sneaky!
Furthermore, there is actually no scientific basis for the theory that the pathologists had mistaken spilled old blood for fresh blood still flowing. As far as I know that amateurish notion came from Ian Stephens who I know is the writer of the article at the following site.
http://crimeheartsandcoronets.blogspot.co.uk/2010/11/jeremy-bamber-guilty-as-charged.html
Here is the relevant passage
“A consistent feature of objections to the Crown case is that they rest upon arguments from personal incredulity. Surely the blood on Sheila’s neck couldn’t look as “fresh” as it does in the photographs if she’d been dead for at least six hours?”
(The above statement is false. Professors Meloni and Cavalli support the view that the photograph shows fresh blood still flowing and they set a limit of two hours before the photograph was taken in estimating the time of death.)
“Well, yes, it could. Officers observed that wet blood had pooled in the crook of Sheila’s right arm. Congealed blood had also formed in the aperture of the lower neck wound. One possibility is that when Sheila was moved by officers at the scene, this plug became detached, and allowed blood accumulated within Sheila’s neck, viscous but not yet congealed, to run thickly beyond the entrance of the wound.”
Steve’s writing is remarkably similar in it’s aspect of tabloid style sneakiness to that of Ian Stephens. It is just as if he learned his trade by copying starryian. It is worth noting, however, that even Stephens himself only says “one possibility is that… this plug became detached.”
A while back, Steve tried to fool Roch when he said that “forensics” had come up with the theory. Roch caught him lying, so Steve tried something else-he said that the article in question was “by Police”. Well, if Stephens is working for the police that would be true. Perhaps Steve should elaborate.
Suggested by forensics
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,2991.msg109095.html#msg109095
Suggested by Police
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,2991.msg109108.html#msg109108
The truth is it was suggested by Ian Stephens, better known as starryian. So much for citations!
Incidentally, you will notice that the next post is by Moe Cassani, who I know is Ian Stephens. I did some checking. Harvey was right.
The one about the keyboard and the one about the night on the drink are used by starryian007 a lot in his YouTube comments.
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,3004.msg111816.html#msg111816
And so, I believe, was Roch
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,2991.msg109106.html#msg109106
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Your research is brilliant Martin. I like the way you work with your investigative skills. Wish I could do it. :)
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Morning Lugg I was well impressed with Martin's post written by a true professional I would think. By the way Lugg you own posts are pretty good as well ;D ;D
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Your research is brilliant Martin. I like the way you work with your investigative skills. Wish I could do it. :)
I second that,Lugg. His skill really does put a few of us" inadequates " in the shade.
I often wish I'd listened to my headmistress years ago when she seemed determined to set me on the road to journalism.
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Morning Lugg I was well impressed with Martin's post written by a true professional I would think. By the way Lugg you own posts are pretty good as well ;D ;D
Nahhhh. ::)
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Nahhhh. ::)
Susie is telling the truth Lugg...they are! :) :) :) :) :)
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Nahhhh. ::)
Lugg ,,you're excellent man.
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Martin, yours is an excellent post in which there may be truth, however I, and I feel certain, many others, can furnish you with evidence that when faced with a post he can't/won't answer directly, Steve deflects attention from it by going off at a tangent. I have, on numerous occasions asked him what his response has to do with the point I had made. Guess what? NO response ;D We live with it, Martin ;D ;D
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Back to the drawing board,Steve. Or the library,to brush-up on your ignorance.
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I agree, great post Martin. Steve does himself no favours by ignoring facts which don't fit in with whatever theory he is 'repeating' on a particular day. However, perhaps his writings are similar to those of Starryian because they have read the same ill informed 'books' ;)
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I've found through life, that those who talk of others in a derogatory manner,,are by no means free from guilt of some kind themselves,,and in order to try and justify their own shortcomings,,are more than ready to blame others.
Jeremy,,,I have found,,hasn't said,,or tried to lay blame on anyone for what happened at WHF,nor has he spoken ill of his extended relatives,,,but the same can't be said by them to him.
Anyone with anything to hide,will invariably blame or name someone else in the process of freeing themselves of a guilty conscience.
Books have to contain fabrications in order to " stretch " the story to a suitably given rendition of what was supposed to have taken place,,and who the culprit was,,and why,,,or it would end up in a page of the Beano.
I can't accept the " fact " that Jeremy murdered his family,,for a number of reasons,,,most of which I've stated on this forum,,aside from Jeremys' overall genre of even thinking about killing,,,he wasn't capable of such an act. Culpable-----------------yes.!
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Martin seems to have a problem with the fact that Steve's opinion is closer to Ian's than his own, and what that has to do with them helping the police is anyone's guess. Anyway, with regards the 'oxygenated blood' theory, it's worth pointing out again I think, that the 'oxygenated blood' photo is just a blow up from photo 27, which was taken at the same time as photo 28, and which quite clearly shows blood leaking from Sheila's mouth which must have come from the same gun shot, and which is so dry that it is fact cracking and peeling.
Oxygenated blood photo:
(http://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-XCDj9WNfyYo/URZF2W-wuJI/AAAAAAAACgQ/sjifOOkkkco/s2048/IMAGE_B4CE2E22-BD8C-4487-B40B-00D78ED0319B.JPG)
Blow up from photo 27:
(http://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-rj8u-HWxzS0/URZF3IBCvLI/AAAAAAAAChU/rlR4dHbENnA/s2048/IMAGE_0AAEB19D-0B4A-49DA-A85E-2A0D98C679A2.JPG)
Photo 28:
(http://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-FuaVpw4y7to/URZHT4K7mWI/AAAAAAAACgk/Y1rmWm0jod0/s2048/IMAGE_C1A0EE99-CF18-4C19-8A9F-D1B9054A630B.JPG)
Blow up from photo 28:
(http://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-RNXk09NMrJs/URZHc-HqS7I/AAAAAAAACgs/cQJ16LIUZ00/s2048/IMAGE_D91D1E3D-E3F6-452C-9673-EE699EC43B45.JPG)
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How many hours later.? Quite a few imo.
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Compare how far the rifle has " shifted " from one pic to the other.
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How many hours later.? Quite a few imo.
How many hours later what?
Compare how far the rifle has " shifted " from one pic to the other.
It hasn't. It's just a change in perspective caused by the photographer moving position.
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How many hours later what?
It hasn't. It's just a change in perspective caused by the photographer moving position.
By comparison of pics ( how many hours later )
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By comparison of pics ( how many hours later )
If in doubt make it up?
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If in doubt make it up?
Yes,,,you do that.!
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Yes,,,you do that.!
It's not me who, without any basis whatsoever, is asserting that there are several hours between photos.
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Martin seems to have a problem with the fact that Steve's opinion is closer to Ian's than his own, and what that has to do with them helping the police is anyone's guess. Anyway, with regards the 'oxygenated blood' theory, it's worth pointing out again I think, that the 'oxygenated blood' photo is just a blow up from photo 27, which was taken at the same time as photo 28, and which quite clearly shows blood leaking from Sheila's mouth which must have come from the same gun shot, and which is so dry that it is fact cracking and peeling.
Oxygenated blood photo:
(http://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-XCDj9WNfyYo/URZF2W-wuJI/AAAAAAAACgQ/sjifOOkkkco/s2048/IMAGE_B4CE2E22-BD8C-4487-B40B-00D78ED0319B.JPG)
Blow up from photo 27:
(http://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-rj8u-HWxzS0/URZF3IBCvLI/AAAAAAAAChU/rlR4dHbENnA/s2048/IMAGE_0AAEB19D-0B4A-49DA-A85E-2A0D98C679A2.JPG)
Photo 28:
(http://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-FuaVpw4y7to/URZHT4K7mWI/AAAAAAAACgk/Y1rmWm0jod0/s2048/IMAGE_C1A0EE99-CF18-4C19-8A9F-D1B9054A630B.JPG)
Blow up from photo 28:
(http://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-RNXk09NMrJs/URZHc-HqS7I/AAAAAAAACgs/cQJ16LIUZ00/s2048/IMAGE_D91D1E3D-E3F6-452C-9673-EE699EC43B45.JPG)
Yes the last photo shows the blood from the mouth cracking and dry. This can happen if the person's face is still warm. However the blood from the neck shows the blood (imho) as flowing for some reason?
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Yes the last photo shows the blood from the mouth cracking and dry. This can happen if the person's face is still warm. However the blood from the neck shows the blood (imho) as flowing for some reason?
The blood from the mouth comes from the second wound (the one under the chin) which was undeniably instantly fatal. It's "flowing" because it's leaking out through the hole in the bottom of her mouth through gravity.
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I have had the thought that Ian and Steve are one and the same. They both write fiction.
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I have had the thought that Ian and Steve are one and the same. They both write fiction.
Steve is certainly an immovable force when it comes to believing Jeremy to be guilty.
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Steve is certainly an immovable force when it comes to believing Jeremy to be guilty.
In my opinion he is no better than pros who make up things to make evidence fit into their beliefs. He makes a lot up. Sorry, Steve, but you do.
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In my opinion he is no better than pros who make up things to make evidence fit into their beliefs. He makes a lot up. Sorry, Steve, but you do.
Alias, we are very aware of Steve's propensity for "illumination" and "embroidery" but he is forgiven much. We can always rest assured that when he can't/won't answer he changes direction and says something quite unrelated to point being made. What I am not certain of is whether he is serious or just being provocative for the sake of it :D :D
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lol :) :) :) :) :) :) :) hes part of the red crew!! i am 100% sure he is!! hello Eric
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The blood from the mouth comes from the second wound (the one under the chin) which was undeniably instantly fatal. It's "flowing" because it's leaking out through the hole in the bottom of her mouth through gravity.
A coupe of things to bare in mind, is that the raid team entered at 7:30
The photographs were taken just under two hours later just after 10am and there were also a 2nd set taken in the main bedroom later on.
One of the reports from the raid team said her blood was leaking, not all of the raid team entered the bedroom and saw Sheila.
However, this would mean that she would have been shot after Jeremy had arrived with the police.
If she had been shot before 3am all the blood would have been cracked even that on her neck, but it wasn't....
The only other thing I can add, is the partially digested food and the fact the poor lass looked remarkably clean....So, if she had gone to her mother, then why did she not help her or hug her? If she had done this then she would have her mums blood all over her..... :-\ :-\ :) :) :) :)
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A coupe of things to bare in mind, is that the raid team entered at 7:30
The photographs were taken just under two hours later just after 10am and there were also a 2nd set taken in the main bedroom later on.
One of the reports from the raid team said her blood was leaking, not all of the raid team entered the bedroom and saw Sheila.
However, this would mean that she would have been shot after Jeremy had arrived with the police.
If she had been shot before 3am all the blood would have been cracked even that on her neck, but it wasn't....
The only other thing I can add, is the partially digested food and the fact the poor lass looked remarkably clean....So, if she had gone to her mother, then why did she not help her or hug her? If she had done this then she would have her mums blood all over her..... :-\ :-\ :) :) :) :)
She also looked too peaceful to have been terrified just prior to death.
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A coupe of things to bare in mind, is that the raid team entered at 7:30
The photographs were taken just under two hours later just after 10am and there were also a 2nd set taken in the main bedroom later on.
One of the reports from the raid team said her blood was leaking, not all of the raid team entered the bedroom and saw Sheila.
I followed you so far..
However, this would mean that she would have been shot after Jeremy had arrived with the police.
And then you lost me. The blood is just seeping out of the wound through gravity, likely a steady trickle which would keep the area from drying completely.
If she had been shot before 3am all the blood would have been cracked even that on her neck, but it wasn't....
I disagree, see above, nevertheless I believe the blood is a lot drier than it appears to be in that enhanced 'oxygenated blood' photo.
The only other thing I can add, is the partially digested food and the fact the poor lass looked remarkably clean....So, if she had gone to her mother, then why did she not help her or hug her? If she had done this then she would have her mums blood all over her..... :-\ :-\ :) :) :) :)
Who knows, horror? Maybe she didn't get time before JB reappeared?
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She also looked too peaceful to have been terrified just prior to death.
What makes you think she'd look anything other than peaceful? She's dead and her muscles have therefore relaxed.
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What makes you think she'd look anything other than peaceful? She's ad and her muscles have therefore relaxed.
I read "dead"?
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I read "dead"?
Yes dead, thanks Lugg ;)
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Well look at the colour of it! I've explained before that I believe the copy of it we have available here has been colour enhanced for publication in a newspaper. I'm not saying that the one provided by the defence to whatever expert is enhanced, I haven't seen it and neither has anyone else here.
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Er.. No, I can see it's enhanced.
So in the end we don't have a very clear picture after all? So we all are left with the one option and that is guess what the original must have looked like?
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What makes you think she'd look anything other than peaceful? She's dead and her muscles have therefore relaxed.
Bridget, I really don't know enough about how people look post mortum to discuss it at length, but I have heard that if someone witnesses an horrific incident prior to death it shows on their face, but it may be a myth.
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I followed you so far..
And then you lost me. The blood is just seeping out of the wound through gravity, likely a steady trickle which would keep the area from drying completely.
I disagree, see above, nevertheless I believe the blood is a lot drier than it appears to be in that enhanced 'oxygenated blood' photo.
Who knows, horror? Maybe she didn't get time before JB reappeared?
Dead people don't bleed for nearly 7 hours and all of that blood would have been dry, that is a fact, it does not continue, not for that length of time anyway....Therefore what I am saying is that she may have been shot after Jeremy and the police arrived.... :) :) :) :) :)
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Bridget, I really don't know enough about how people look post mortum to discuss it at length, but I have heard that if someone witnesses an horrific incident prior to death it shows on their face, but it may be a myth.
April, you are right, they call it something...Its when people die in fear...I think rigor mortise sets in immediately too...Can't think what its called... :) :) :)
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April, you are right, they call it something...Its when people die in fear...I think rigor mortise sets in immediately too...Can't think what its called... :) :) :)
Rigor mortis does not set in immediately, it is a gradual process which starts after about 3 hours.
The face thing is called rictus something or other I think, it's quite rare and not necessarily indicative of the expression on the persons face when they died.
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the blood would have become very dark red to and a gel,putty substance not running fresh!
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April, you are right, they call it something...Its when people die in fear...I think rigor mortise sets in immediately too...Can't think what its called... :) :) :)
Thanks Patti. I've been trying to find out what it's called. No luck so far.
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Rigor mortis does not set in immediately, it is a gradual process which starts after about 3 hours.
The face thing is called rictus something or other I think, it's quite rare and not necessarily indicative of the expression on the persons face when they died.
We've been here before. Rigor mortise sets in depending on age and heat, it could be after 2 hours.
I'm not talking about that though Bridget. There is something that can freeze the body when in fear...it is called something and for the life of me I can't remember what it is. It can also cause rigor mortise to set in quite quickly....Sometimes when people die in fear they retain their position and may even have something in their hands...Like one of the victims did in the Yorkshire ripper case....She died holding a five pound note...I was relating to something that April said....Any ideas of what it is called? :) :) :) :)
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Good job, Bridget.
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We've been here before. Rigor mortise sets in depending on age and heat, it could be after 2 hours.
I'm not talking about that though Bridget. There is something that can freeze the body when in fear...it is called something and for the life of me I can't remember what it is. It can also cause rigor mortise to set in quite quickly....Sometimes when people die in fear they retain their position and may even have something in their hands...Like one of the victims did in the Yorkshire ripper case....She died holding a five pound note...I was relating to something that April said....Any ideas of what it is called? :) :) :) :)
Rigor does not set in quickly it is a chemical process which takes between 3 and 4 hours to start. It is gradual and is normally complete after 12 hours and disapears some 48 hours later. The process depends on temperature, body weight and blood loss.
For the ripper case you are thinking of Jean Jordan. She did not die holding a £5 note. It was concealed in her handbag about 100 feet from the body. She was not in rigor when she was found. She was in a terrible state having been dead for days and Sutcliffe had returned to find his £5 and hacked the remains to bits in rage.
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Rigor does not set in quickly it is a chemical process which takes between 3 and 4 hours to start. It is gradual and is normally complete after 12 hours and disapears some 48 hours later. The process depends on temperature, body weight and blood loss.
For the ripper case you are thinking of Jean Jordan. She did not die holding a £5 note. It was concealed in her handbag about 100 feet from the body. She was not in rigor when she was found. She was in a terrible state having been dead for days and Sutcliffe had returned to find his £5 and hacked the remains to bits in rage.
you are right about the fiver being in her handbag...He broke her fingers didn't he, thinking she was still holding it...
I'm not on about rigor mortise Hourglass...I'm on about when someone dies in fear, there is a name for it and because of this RM sets in quicker....I have read about and posted about it, but I have forgot what they call it. For example is someone died in fear and was holding a piece of privet, the grasp would be very tight....and they would still be holding the privet when found. :-\ :) :)
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Rigor mortis does not set in immediately, it is a gradual process which starts after about 3 hours.
The face thing is called rictus something or other I think, it's quite rare and not necessarily indicative of the expression on the persons face when they died.
Rictus grin can be caused by cyanide poisoning. the face muscles tighten, it looks like the person is taking a bite out of the air! Cyanide blocks your blood from taking oxygen causing convulsions and strange breathing noises often passing out seconds later.
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you are right about the fiver being in her handbag...He broke her fingers didn't he, thinking she was still holding it...
I'm not on about rigor mortise Hourglass...I'm on about when someone dies in fear, there is a name for it and because of this RM sets in quicker....I have read about and posted about it, but I have forgot what they call it. For example is someone died in fear and was holding a piece of privet, the grasp would be very tight....
I believe that you are thinking of Petrifaction. However I understand it is largely a myth in crime fiction although I cannot rule out that some bodies might be found gripping something tightly but it is not a complete process involving all muscle groups. Rictus is another name but it is normally associated with the teeth and jaw. The jaw and fingers are the first parts of the body to be affected by rigor so that might cause some of the confusion.
Jean Jordan was in an advanced stage of putrification when she was found. An appaulling state as sutcliffe literally tore her body apart looking for the money. I dont really want to say anyone about poor Ms Jordan but it can be easily Googled if you have a very strong stomach.
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Rictus grin can be caused by cyanide poisoning. the face muscles tighten, it looks like the person is taking a bite out of the air! Cyanide blocks your blood from taking oxygen causing convulsions and strange breathing noises often passing out seconds later.
Yes you are right Cyanide can do that. Evil stuff.
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heres some clues
Rigor mortis can affect a person quicker, if they involved with a struggle or fight?
Physical exertion just prior to death: If someone dies while engaged in strenuous activity like exercising or struggling against drowning, rigor mortis can set in immediately. This instant onset, sometimes called cadaveric spasm, happens because the person's muscles, at the moment of death, were depleted of oxygen energy and ATP. This is why the victim of a violent attack may still be clutching the attacker's hair or a piece of clothing.
warm temperatures can also set Rigor mortis faster too, as with illness or age
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Sutcliffe almost decapitated jean Jordan, he was desperate to find that five pound note. Bruce Jones ( Les Battersby) found her body.
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heres some clues
Rigor mortis can affect a person, if they involved with a stuggle or fight?
Physical exertion just prior to death: If someone dies while engaged in strenuous activity like exercising or struggling against drowning, rigor mortis can set in immediately. This instant onset, sometimes called cadaveric spasm, happens because the person's muscles, at the moment of death, were depleted of oxygen energy and ATP. This is why the victim of a violent attack may still be clutching the attacker's hair or a piece of clothing.
warm temperatures can also set Rigor mortis faster too, as with illness or age
That's it packagebuilder cadaveric spasm....I knew I had read something regarding this...thank you for finding it. :) :) :) :)
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Cadaveric spasm has been discussed on here yonks ago!
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Did Vanezis mention cadaveric spasm in his report? I dont think he did.
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heres some clues
Rigor mortis can affect a person quicker, if they involved with a struggle or fight?
Physical exertion just prior to death: If someone dies while engaged in strenuous activity like exercising or struggling against drowning, rigor mortis can set in immediately. This instant onset, sometimes called cadaveric spasm, happens because the person's muscles, at the moment of death, were depleted of oxygen energy and ATP. This is why the victim of a violent attack may still be clutching the attacker's hair or a piece of clothing.
warm temperatures can also set Rigor mortis faster too, as with illness or age
Cadaveric spasm, also known as postmortem spasm, instantaneous rigor, cataleptic rigidity, or instantaneous rigidity, is a rare form of muscular stiffening that occurs at the moment of death, persists into the period of rigor mortis[1] and can be mistaken for rigor mortis. The cause is unknown, but is usually associated with violent deaths happening under extremely physical circumstances with intense emotion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadaveric_spasm
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We've been here before. Rigor mortise sets in depending on age and heat, it could be after 2 hours.
I'm not talking about that though Bridget. There is something that can freeze the body when in fear...it is called something and for the life of me I can't remember what it is. It can also cause rigor mortise to set in quite quickly....Sometimes when people die in fear they retain their position and may even have something in their hands...Like one of the victims did in the Yorkshire ripper case....She died holding a five pound note...I was relating to something that April said....Any ideas of what it is called? :) :) :) :)
No, but clearly Sheila didnt have it anyway ;)
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Did Vanezis mention cadaveric spasm in his report? I dont think he did.
No Andrea...he didn't and we are not saying that this happened at all....I was trying to remember what it was called...My memory has had it lol :) :) :)
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No, but clearly Sheila didnt have it anyway ;)
6-2 I never said she did lol but I knew I had read it somewhere and we have discussed this before. Where sudden RM sets in.. :) :) :) :)
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6-2 I never said she did lol but I knew I had read it somewhere and we have discussed this before. Where sudden RM sets in.. :) :) :) :)
Ok, well I think Andrea has the name. But it's moot lol
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Ok, well I think Andrea has the name. But it's moot lol
Never dismiss anything, not in this case...lol :P
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the same could be said for June too, woke up in pain & fear covered in blood tries getting out of bed only to be shoot between the eyes catching a glimpse of her killer setting cadaveric spasm? that why you can see Junes hand floating in the photos or "she been moved"....? but her hand was never forced down to the floor. june's hand floating had been covered on here too!
The police may lie, but dead bodies don't!
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the same could be said for June too, woke up in pain & fear covered in blood tries getting out of bed only to be shoot between the eyes catching a glimpse of her killer setting cadaveric spasm? that why you can see Junes hand floating in the photos or "she been moved"....? but her hand was never forced down to the floor. june's hand floating had been covered on here too!
Her hand isn't floating.
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I think we argued for about 3 days over this...I was convinced her arm was up, until I saw the full photograph. Her arm is definitely on the floor. It does look like its up though, its like an optical illusion.. :) :) :) :)
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I think we argued for about 3 days over this...I was convinced her arm was up, until I saw the full photograph. Her arm is definitely on the floor. It does look like its up though, its like an optical illusion.. :) :) :) :)
Oh bulls, all my research is gone after my old laptop packed in! big case I forget things!
I be spending months downloading it again!
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Oh bulls, all my research is gone after my old laptop packed in! big case I forget things!
I be spending months downloading it again!
Aww bless! I was on a crusade with her arm, I honestly thought it was raised. Everybody was trying to point this out to me, till the full photo appeared. You're not on your own forgetting things. Half the time, I forget what I am doing...lol :) :) :) ;)
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6-2 I never said she did lol but I knew I had read it somewhere and we have discussed this before. Where sudden RM sets in.. :) :) :) :)
Yes men get it frequently. ;D ;D ;D ;D
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A coupe of things to bare in mind, . . .
I take it you meant "A couple of things to bear in mind".
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Aww bless! I was on a crusade with her arm, I honestly thought it was raised. Everybody was trying to point this out to me, till the full photo appeared. You're not on your own forgetting things. Half the time, I forget what I am doing...lol :) :) :) ;)
yeah same here!! its like playing tic tac toe :( always a draw!
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yeah same here!! its like playing tic tac toe :( always a draw!
I have to let her win every now and then otherwise she won't play with me.
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:) :) :) :) yeah computer wins more at 1:00AM
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:) :) :) :) yeah computer wins more at 1:00AM
Ha ha! Guess it has the advantage of no sleep deprivation or glasses of vino.
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The blood from the mouth comes from the second wound (the one under the chin) which was undeniably instantly fatal. It's "flowing" because it's leaking out through the hole in the bottom of her mouth through gravity.
Where do the pools and smears come from? The ones that have an appearance possibly of finger marks.
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I take it you meant "A couple of things to bear in mind".
You could have had Mike earlier. He wrote "your welcome".
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The blood is just seeping out of the wound through gravity, likely a steady trickle which would keep the area from drying completely.
Still trickling out 7hrs+ after she was killed?
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Where do the pools and smears come from? The ones that have an appearance possibly of finger marks.
Don't know, I've puzzled over that myself but I usually give up.
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Still trickling out 7hrs+ after she was killed?
No, I wouldn't have thought it was still trickling, but it may have carried on for a while, so that area would dry later. I was actually trying to be generous because if you look at the blow up of photo 28 I posted on the first page it doesn't look wet to me at all, the 'white' areas look as if its dried to a bit of a sheen which is picking up the camera flash. You can see similar on the trail from her mouth which we know to be dry.
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No, I wouldn't have thought it was still trickling, but it may have carried on for a while, so that area would dry later. I was actually trying to be generous because if you look at the blow up of photo 28 I posted on the first page it doesn't look wet to me at all, the 'white' areas look as if its dried to a bit of a sheen which is picking up the camera flash. You can see similar on the trail from her mouth which we know to be dry.
The problem is though it still looks fresh to me? This should not be so if the photos of Sheila were taken at around 10am?
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The problem is though it still looks fresh to me? This should not be so if the photos of Sheila were taken at around 10am?
I think the problem is that neither of us are looking at an original photo, and even then I'm not sure you'd be able to tell with any certainty.
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It's obviously the carotid artery.Does it say so on the report,,I've forgotten?.
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Though debated many times , going for the most likely may be best, Sheila must have been moved at sometime after entry resulting in fresh blood flow,the darker the blood as a guide to time there, meaning she must have still been alive after the other members of the family were killed.
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Though debated many times , going for the most likely may be best, Sheila must have been moved at sometime after entry resulting in fresh blood flow,the darker the blood as a guide to time there, meaning she must have still been alive after the other members of the family were killed.
Hi Mertol,,,that's the way I see it.
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My father (FRPS) believes that it has.
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It's obviously the carotid artery.Does it say so on the report,,I've forgotten?.
No it doesn't. The first shot lacerated the jugular vein, and the second if I recall correctly went up through the mouth and into the brain, no mention of carotid.
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Aww bless! I was on a crusade with her arm, I honestly thought it was raised. Everybody was trying to point this out to me, till the full photo appeared. You're not on your own forgetting things. Half the time, I forget what I am doing...lol :) :) :) ;)
Why lol. Do you find this FUNNY? I don't . I think you should consider your post. You seem to laugh at at a lot of posts Patti. You need to consider your posts.
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Why lol. Do you find this FUNNY? I don't . I think you should consider your post. You seem to laugh at at a lot of posts Patti. You need to consider your posts.
Buddy, perhaps, if as Patti, you spent half your time forgetting things, if you didn't laugh about it, it may reduce you to tears.
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:) :) :) lol
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My father (FRPS) believes that it has.
That's an unusual name Bridget. Is it Welsh? ::) ;D
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Back to the subject, what benfit would Steve_uk and Starryian get by "helping" the police? is this forum watched by Essex police or Ron cook?
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Back to the subject, what benfit would Steve_uk and Starryian get by "helping" the police? is this forum watched by Essex police or Ron cook?
I doubt it on both counts?