Are Steve_uk and starryian helping the police?

[hourglass]

you are right about the fiver being in her handbag...He broke her fingers didn't he, thinking she was still holding it...

I'm not on about rigor mortise Hourglass...I'm on about when someone dies in fear, there is a name for it and because of this RM sets in quicker....I have read about and posted about it, but I have forgot what they call it.  For example is someone died in fear and was holding a piece of privet, the grasp would be very tight....

I believe that you are thinking of Petrifaction.  However I understand it is largely a myth in crime fiction although I cannot rule out that some bodies might be found gripping something tightly but it is not a complete process involving all muscle groups.  Rictus is another name but it is normally associated with the teeth and jaw.  The jaw and fingers are the first parts of the body to be affected by rigor so that might cause some of the confusion.

Jean Jordan was in an advanced stage of putrification when she was found.  An appaulling state as sutcliffe literally tore her body apart looking for the money.  I dont really want to say anyone about poor Ms Jordan but it can be easily Googled if you have a very strong stomach.

[hourglass]

Rictus grin can be caused by cyanide poisoning. the face muscles tighten, it looks like the person is taking a bite out of the air! Cyanide blocks your blood from taking oxygen causing convulsions and strange breathing noises often passing out seconds later.

Yes you are right Cyanide can do that.  Evil stuff.

[packagebuilder]

heres some clues

Rigor mortis can affect a person quicker, if they involved with a struggle or fight?

Physical exertion just prior to death: If someone dies while engaged in strenuous activity like exercising or struggling against drowning, rigor mortis can set in immediately. This instant onset, sometimes called cadaveric spasm, happens because the person's muscles, at the moment of death, were depleted of oxygen energy and ATP. This is why the victim of a violent attack may still be clutching the attacker's hair or a piece of clothing.

warm  temperatures can also set Rigor mortis faster too, as with illness or age

[andrea]

Sutcliffe almost decapitated jean Jordan, he was desperate to find that five pound note. Bruce Jones ( Les Battersby) found her body.

[Patti]

heres some clues

Rigor mortis can affect a person, if they involved with a stuggle or fight?

Physical exertion just prior to death: If someone dies while engaged in strenuous activity like exercising or struggling against drowning, rigor mortis can set in immediately. This instant onset, sometimes called cadaveric spasm, happens because the person's muscles, at the moment of death, were depleted of oxygen energy and ATP. This is why the victim of a violent attack may still be clutching the attacker's hair or a piece of clothing.

warm  temperatures can also set Rigor mortis faster too, as with illness or age

That's it packagebuilder cadaveric spasm....I knew I had read something regarding this...thank you for finding it.   

[andrea]

Cadaveric spasm has been discussed on here yonks ago!

[andrea]

Did Vanezis  mention cadaveric spasm in his report? I dont think he did.

[Patti]

heres some clues

Rigor mortis can affect a person quicker, if they involved with a struggle or fight?

Physical exertion just prior to death: If someone dies while engaged in strenuous activity like exercising or struggling against drowning, rigor mortis can set in immediately. This instant onset, sometimes called cadaveric spasm, happens because the person's muscles, at the moment of death, were depleted of oxygen energy and ATP. This is why the victim of a violent attack may still be clutching the attacker's hair or a piece of clothing.

warm  temperatures can also set Rigor mortis faster too, as with illness or age

Cadaveric spasm, also known as postmortem spasm, instantaneous rigor, cataleptic rigidity, or instantaneous rigidity, is a rare form of muscular stiffening that occurs at the moment of death, persists into the period of rigor mortis[1] and can be mistaken for rigor mortis. The cause is unknown, but is usually associated with violent deaths happening under extremely physical circumstances with intense emotion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadaveric_spasm

[Bridget]

We've been here before. Rigor mortise sets in depending on age and heat, it could be after 2 hours. 

I'm not talking about that though Bridget. There is something that can freeze the body when in fear...it is called something and for the life of me I can't remember what it is. It can also cause rigor mortise to set in quite quickly....Sometimes when people die in fear they retain their position and may even have something in their hands...Like one of the victims did in the Yorkshire ripper case....She died holding a five pound note...I was relating to something that April said....Any ideas of what it is called?   

No, but clearly Sheila didnt have it anyway

[Patti]

Did Vanezis  mention cadaveric spasm in his report? I dont think he did.

No Andrea...he didn't and we are not saying that this happened at all....I was trying to remember what it was called...My memory has had it lol 

[Patti]

No, but clearly Sheila didnt have it anyway

6-2 I never said she did lol but I knew I had read it somewhere and we have discussed this before.  Where sudden RM sets in..

[Bridget]

6-2 I never said she did lol but I knew I had read it somewhere and we have discussed this before.  Where sudden RM sets in..

Ok, well I think Andrea has the name. But it's moot lol

[Patti]

Ok, well I think Andrea has the name. But it's moot lol

Never dismiss anything, not in this case...lol 

[packagebuilder]

the same could be said for June too, woke up in pain & fear covered in blood tries getting out of bed only to be shoot between the eyes catching a glimpse of her killer setting cadaveric spasm? that why you can see Junes hand floating in the photos or "she been moved"....? but her hand was never forced down to the floor. june's hand floating had been covered on here too!

The police may lie, but dead bodies don't!

[Bridget]

the same could be said for June too, woke up in pain & fear covered in blood tries getting out of bed only to be shoot between the eyes catching a glimpse of her killer setting cadaveric spasm? that why you can see Junes hand floating in the photos or "she been moved"....? but her hand was never forced down to the floor. june's hand floating had been covered on here too!

Her hand isn't floating.