Are Steve_uk and starryian helping the police?

[Lugg]

What makes you think she'd look anything other than peaceful? She's ad and her muscles have therefore relaxed.

I read "dead"?

[Bridget]

I read "dead"?

Yes dead, thanks Lugg

[Bridget]

Well look at the colour of it! I've explained before that I believe the copy of it we have available here has been colour enhanced for publication in a newspaper. I'm not saying that the one provided by the defence to whatever expert is enhanced, I haven't seen it and neither has anyone else here.

[Lugg]

Er.. No, I can see it's enhanced.

So in the end we don't have a very clear picture after all? So we all are left with the one option and that is guess what the original must have looked like?

[Jane]

What makes you think she'd look anything other than peaceful? She's dead and her muscles have therefore relaxed.

Bridget, I really don't know enough about how people look post mortum to discuss it at length, but I have heard that if someone witnesses an horrific incident prior to death it shows on their face, but it may be a myth.

[Patti]

I followed you so far..

And then you lost me. The blood is just seeping out of the wound through gravity, likely a steady trickle which would keep the area from drying completely.

I disagree, see above, nevertheless I believe the blood is a lot drier than it appears to be in that enhanced 'oxygenated blood' photo.

Who knows, horror? Maybe she didn't get time before JB reappeared?

Dead people don't bleed for nearly 7 hours and all of that blood would have been dry, that is a fact, it does not continue, not for that length of time anyway....Therefore what I am saying is that she may have been shot after Jeremy and the police arrived....

[Patti]

Bridget, I really don't know enough about how people look post mortum to discuss it at length, but I have heard that if someone witnesses an horrific incident prior to death it shows on their face, but it may be a myth.

April, you are right, they call it something...Its when people die in fear...I think rigor mortise sets in immediately too...Can't think what its called...

[Bridget]

April, you are right, they call it something...Its when people die in fear...I think rigor mortise sets in immediately too...Can't think what its called...

Rigor mortis does not set in immediately, it is a gradual process which starts after about 3 hours.

The face thing is called rictus something or other I think, it's quite rare and not necessarily indicative of the expression on the persons face when they died.

[packagebuilder]

the blood would have become very dark red to and a gel,putty substance not running fresh!

[Jane]

April, you are right, they call it something...Its when people die in fear...I think rigor mortise sets in immediately too...Can't think what its called...

Thanks Patti. I've been trying to find out what it's called. No luck so far.

[Patti]

Rigor mortis does not set in immediately, it is a gradual process which starts after about 3 hours.

The face thing is called rictus something or other I think, it's quite rare and not necessarily indicative of the expression on the persons face when they died.

We've been here before. Rigor mortise sets in depending on age and heat, it could be after 2 hours. 

I'm not talking about that though Bridget. There is something that can freeze the body when in fear...it is called something and for the life of me I can't remember what it is. It can also cause rigor mortise to set in quite quickly....Sometimes when people die in fear they retain their position and may even have something in their hands...Like one of the victims did in the Yorkshire ripper case....She died holding a five pound note...I was relating to something that April said....Any ideas of what it is called?   

[guest154]

Good job, Bridget.

[hourglass]

We've been here before. Rigor mortise sets in depending on age and heat, it could be after 2 hours. 

I'm not talking about that though Bridget. There is something that can freeze the body when in fear...it is called something and for the life of me I can't remember what it is. It can also cause rigor mortise to set in quite quickly....Sometimes when people die in fear they retain their position and may even have something in their hands...Like one of the victims did in the Yorkshire ripper case....She died holding a five pound note...I was relating to something that April said....Any ideas of what it is called?   

Rigor does not set in quickly it is a chemical process which takes between 3 and 4 hours to start.  It is gradual and is normally complete after 12 hours and disapears some 48 hours later.  The process depends on temperature, body weight and blood loss.

For the ripper case you are thinking of Jean Jordan.  She did not die holding a £5 note.  It was concealed in her handbag about 100 feet from the body.  She was not in rigor when she was found.  She was in a terrible state having been dead for days and Sutcliffe had returned to find his £5 and hacked the remains to bits in rage.

[Patti]

Rigor does not set in quickly it is a chemical process which takes between 3 and 4 hours to start.  It is gradual and is normally complete after 12 hours and disapears some 48 hours later.  The process depends on temperature, body weight and blood loss.

For the ripper case you are thinking of Jean Jordan.  She did not die holding a £5 note.  It was concealed in her handbag about 100 feet from the body.  She was not in rigor when she was found.  She was in a terrible state having been dead for days and Sutcliffe had returned to find his £5 and hacked the remains to bits in rage.

you are right about the fiver being in her handbag...He broke her fingers didn't he, thinking she was still holding it...

I'm not on about rigor mortise Hourglass...I'm on about when someone dies in fear, there is a name for it and because of this RM sets in quicker....I have read about and posted about it, but I have forgot what they call it.  For example is someone died in fear and was holding a piece of privet, the grasp would be very tight....and they would still be holding the privet when found. 

[packagebuilder]

Rigor mortis does not set in immediately, it is a gradual process which starts after about 3 hours.

The face thing is called rictus something or other I think, it's quite rare and not necessarily indicative of the expression on the persons face when they died.

Rictus grin can be caused by cyanide poisoning. the face muscles tighten, it looks like the person is taking a bite out of the air! Cyanide blocks your blood from taking oxygen causing convulsions and strange breathing noises often passing out seconds later.