Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: mike tesko on October 17, 2012, 08:46:PM
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List of Jeremys Complaints...
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Number 1 makes sense of this statement by Anthony Pargeter (paragraph 1.)
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Number 1 makes sense of this statement by Anthony Pargeter (paragraph 1.)
Bamber’s allegations.
1 That police officers returned the sound moderator to members of his family, where with police knowledge it was tampered with and then returned to the police, where evidence was found. (statement pages 2 - 5)
2 That collusion took place between police officers and witnesses to put paint on the silencer. (statement page 9)
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7 That collusion took place between police officers and David Boutflour in making a statement which contains false evidence.
From a statement by Anthony Pargeter.
Sometime after the 10 August 1985, I received a telephone call from David Boutflour who is a cousin of mine. He told me the silencer had been returned to the family, presumably by the police. He said there was a large scratch on it, some red paint on the knurled end and what appeared to be blood. I advised David to return it to the police straight away.
A day or two after the funeral I went to the kitchen of the farm because there is red paint around the aga. I noticed scoring on the paint work and it appeared to me that this could be where the paint on the silencer came from. The scoring is on the underside of the mantelpiece at the right hand side.
I'm confused! Does all this mean that the silencer was returned to David Boutflour after he had found it and had handed it in to the police, or does it mean that the police had it first and that they gave to David Boutflour, so that he could pretend to have found it?
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I'm confused! Does all this mean that the silencer was returned to David Boutflour after he had found it and had handed it in to the police, or does it mean that the police had it first and that they gave to David Boutflour, so that he could pretend to have found it?
Good points...
It might/does/did depend upon whether or not the silencer in question was Pargeters own silencer that he was/is talking about, or if it was the Bamber owned silencer he was referring to?
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So you're telling me that Pargeter was so observant that after attending a funeral he noticed a "scratch" in the paint under the surround of the Aga? Yeah right. ::)
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So you're telling me that Pargeter was so observant that after attending a funeral he noticed a "scratch" in the paint under the surround of the Aga? Yeah right. ::)
Yes,Lugg,if you're looking for something that you know about,,,you'll find it.! He knew about it,didn't he.?
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Yes,Lugg,if you're looking for something that you know about,,,you'll find it.! He knew about it,didn't he.?
Hi Lookout/Lugg I'm sure, he knew about it and more. Haven't had much time lately but I intend to read up about Anthony Pargeter and his silencer(s) this weekend. There is something that doesn't make sense. imo
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Good points...
It might/does/did depend upon whether or not the silencer in question was Pargeters own silencer that he was/is talking about, or if it was the Bamber owned silencer he was referring to?
I don't understand this. Surely the silencer found on 10th Aug in the gun cupboard, could not have been returned to relatives between 10/8/85 and 10/9/85, since during this period, it had become the key exhibit in a murder enquiry and was duly shuttled here there and everwhere for tests etc.?
How then, could DB be expressing to AP that a silencer had not only been returned to the relatives but also describing the returned silencer as having the very same attributes as the one found in the gun cupboard on 10/8/85?
Have I picked this up wrong in any way?
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Good points...
It might/does/did depend upon whether or not the silencer in question was Pargeters own silencer that he was/is talking about, or if it was the Bamber owned silencer he was referring to?
I think that at the beginning there existed a huge degree of confusion involving and surrounding the find/retention and seizure of the first silencer (SBJ/1), by DS Jones on 7th August, where it was not commonly known by the police at that early stage, that two different identical looking parker hale silencers were kept and in everyday use at the scene. In turn although relatives knew two identical silencers existed, what they did not realize on 9th August was that the silencer which was being spoken about on that date at this time, was the Bamber owned silencer, or the Pargeter one...
It was not until the relatives went to the scene themselves and a check was carried out to see which of the two silencers police already had possession of, that relatives knew police had siezed the Pargeter silencer in the mistaken belief that it had been the Bamber owned silencer relatives and police had been speaking about between themselves on the previous (9th August 1985) day - once relatives found the Bamber silencer they took it home until they decided what to do about the mix up with the silencers, and kept it for a couple of days before alerting the police to its find, and the mix up regarding ownership of the first silencer (SBJ/1) found by police earlier...
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Jeremy Bamber has not stopped complaining since 28 October 1986 when the white prison van arrived late at Chelmsford Crown Court and then sped off to take him to Wormwood Scrubs..
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Jeremy Bamber has not stopped complaining since 28 October 1986 when the white prison van arrived late at Chelmsford Crown Court and then sped off to take him to Wormwood Scrubs..
Steve,hun,get real. I'd complain bitterly too if I was banged up for nothing.
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Jeremy Bamber has not stopped complaining since 28 October 1986 when the white prison van arrived late at Chelmsford Crown Court and then sped off to take him to Wormwood Scrubs..
Steve or anyone... have I picked this up wrong? (Reply 7)
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=3375.msg132808;topicseen#msg132808
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Steve,hun,get real. I'd complain bitterly too if I was banged up for nothing.
I quote verbatim from Claire Powell's book,Murder at White House Farm:
"The murder squad detectives who spent time with Jeremy,and who were unable to break him despite all their efforts,felt he was not an actor. They were sure that they were dealing with a psychopath."Jeremy has got something missing",explained one of them."I don't think it's the kind of thing that a psychiatrist would pick up on. It's certainly not anything that would get him sent to Broadmoor. It's just that he didn't care about anyone or anything. There was a real gap in him where there should have been feelings. It's not normal."
The belief was repeated again and again by people who knew Jeremy."Something was missing in him"wrote Ken Smith. Liz Rimington,who knew Jeremy well and even had a brief affair with him,said:
"Jeremy never believed murder was a crime. He believed morality and social conscience were only for the weak. He said morality was like religion,something for people to hang on to. I told Jeremy he was a psychopath without conscience".
Jeremy replied: "I know I'm sick. I know I have such evil thoughts. I can't help it".
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I quote verbatim from Claire Powell's book,Murder at White House Farm:
"The murder squad detectives who spent time with Jeremy,and who were unable to break him despite all their efforts,felt he was not an actor. They were sure that they were dealing with a psychopath."Jeremy has got something missing",explained one of them."I don't think it's the kind of thing that a psychiatrist would pick up on. It's certainly not anything that would get him sent to Broadmoor. It's just that he didn't care about anyone or anything. There was a real gap in him where there should have been feelings. It's not normal."
The belief was repeated again and again by people who knew Jeremy."Something was missing in him"wrote Ken Smith. Liz Rimington,who knew Jeremy well and even had a brief affair with him,said:
"Jeremy never believed murder was a crime. He believed morality and social conscience were only for the weak. He said morality was like religion,something for people to hang on to. I told Jeremy he was a psychopath without conscience".
Jeremy replied: "I know I'm sick. I know I have such evil thoughts. I can't help it".
Hahahahaha,Steve. I too have evil thoughts at times but I'm not sick,nor am I a murderer. It's all part of life,like wanting to blow up the Houses of Parliament,to which I wouldn't be on my own for saying that,but it doesn't mean to say that I would.
More hearsay I would imagine. This is the trouble with books. Things like that have to be written to create extra interest to read them. A lot of elaborating goes on to fill one page.
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Hahahahaha,Steve. I too have evil thoughts at times but I'm not sick,nor am I a murderer. It's all part of life,like wanting to blow up the Houses of Parliament,to which I wouldn't be on my own for saying that,but it doesn't mean to say that I would.
More hearsay I would imagine. This is the trouble with books. Things like that have to be written to create extra interest to read them. A lot of elaborating goes on to fill one page.
The problem with that theory is that Julie Mugford and her social circle have maintained the same story for the past 27 years. I see that perjury on the part of Police officers is also alleged,when it would have been far simpler to go along with DCI Taff Jones' theory of four murders and a suicide.
Whether Jeremy's psychological problems stemmed from his adoption and therefore deprivation of his natural parents,or whether it came from the influences of the first two female influences in his life,June and Sheila,we will never know. Sheila's grandfather had been a chaplain to the Archbishop of Canterbury so the study of religion was in the family. Jeremy's natural father Major Leslie Grantham had been in the army so the guns factor was there,as well as the snobbishness which lead him to obtain employment in Royal circles.
It's the old nature versus nurture debate. I have no doubt Jeremy in his mind thought that he was doing everyone a favour in putting the old and mentally ill out of their misery,though most importantly he was looking after number one by obtaining the freedom and independence in his mind only money could bring.
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The problem with that theory is that Julie Mugford and her social circle have maintained the same story for the past 27 years. I see that perjury on the part of Police officers is also alleged,when it would have been far simpler to go along with DCI Taff Jones' theory of four murders and a suicide.
Whether Jeremy's psychological problems stemmed from his adoption and therefore deprivation of his natural parents,or whether it came from the influences of the first two female influences in his life,June and Sheila,we will never know. Sheila's grandfather had been a chaplain to the Archbishop of Canterbury so the study of religion was in the family. Jeremy's natural father Major Leslie Grantham had been in the army so the guns factor was there,as well as the snobbishness which lead him to obtain employment in Royal circles.
It's the old nature versus nurture debate. I have no doubt Jeremy in his mind thought that he was doing everyone a favour in putting the old and mentally ill out of their misery,though most importantly he was looking after number one by obtaining the freedom and independence in his mind only money could bring.
I am sad to say that i agree with Steve_uk. When i joined this forum I was 100% convinced that JB was innocent, but the more I read and understand, i am now nearly convinced of his guilt. Julie Mugford's statements have a total ring of truth to them, and there are too many instances of other people quoting JB as saying totally inappropriate things both before and after the murders. I think he is a very charming and clever person, who has spent the last two decades understanding and taking advantage of the MANY police screw ups involved in his case, mistakes which may free him one day. Certainly, whether he is guilty or innocent the police should be ashamed of the way this investigation was handled.
For those of you that believe JB to be innocent, please don't be annoyed with me - I want so much to be back in your camp but i cannot ignore what my head is telling me (which may change again of course...!)
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The problem with that theory is that Julie Mugford and her social circle have maintained the same story for the past 27 years. I see that perjury on the part of Police officers is also alleged,when it would have been far simpler to go along with DCI Taff Jones' theory of four murders and a suicide.
Whether Jeremy's psychological problems stemmed from his adoption and therefore deprivation of his natural parents,or whether it came from the influences of the first two female influences in his life,June and Sheila,we will never know. Sheila's grandfather had been a chaplain to the Archbishop of Canterbury so the study of religion was in the family. Jeremy's natural father Major Leslie Grantham had been in the army so the guns factor was there,as well as the snobbishness which lead him to obtain employment in Royal circles.
It's the old nature versus nurture debate. I have no doubt Jeremy in his mind thought that he was doing everyone a favour in putting the old and mentally ill out of their misery,though most importantly he was looking after number one by obtaining the freedom and independence in his mind only money could bring.
It would depend which of the 30 odd different versions of Mugfords evidence you want to rely upon when you say she has been consistent...
She is a pathological liar who will say anything if you cross her palm with silver or pieces of 8, or the odd contract for a
newspaper article, or the promise of dropping the odd handful of criminal charges she might be responsible for having committed...
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It would depend which of the 30 odd different versions of Mugfords evidence you want to rely upon when you say she has been consistent...
She is a pathological liar who will say anything if you cross her palm with silver or pieces of 8, or the odd contract for a
newspaper article, or the promise of dropping the odd handful of criminal charges she might be responsible for having committed...
Oh...
And lets not forget - "hell hath no fury like a woman scorned"...
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It would depend which of the 30 odd different versions of Mugfords evidence you want to rely upon when you say she has been consistent...
She is a pathological liar who will say anything if you cross her palm with silver or pieces of 8, or the odd contract for a
newspaper article, or the promise of dropping the odd handful of criminal charges she might be responsible for having committed...
I have not picked up the Jeremy supporters on this point heretofore but there has been a deafening silence by them since Julie's 24 page statement was published by Mike for the second time on this site a few days ago. As far as I can tell there was only one inaccuracy when she corrected herself on her time spent on teaching practice and one or two recollections which she slots into place,unsurprising when she was relating her time with Jeremy which spanned from Christmas 1983 until they broke up in September 1985.
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Hi Boo
Don't apologise for your own beliefs follow your own gut feelings and be true to yourself.
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It's the old nature versus nurture debate. I have no doubt Jeremy in his mind thought that he was doing everyone a favour in putting the old and mentally ill out of their misery,though most importantly he was looking after number one by obtaining the freedom and independence in his mind only money could bring.
This is utter bollocks.......
I've fixed your quote box Campers
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Campion you then have to dismiss the evidence of Julie Mugford,Charles Marsden,James Richards,Liz Rimington,Doris Foakes,Barbara Wilson,Robert Boutflour and Ann Eaton on the same basis..
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I have not picked up the Jeremy supporters on this point heretofore but there has been a deafening silence by them since Julie's 24 page statement was published by Mike for the second time on this site a few days ago. As far as I can tell there was only one inaccuracy when she corrected herself on her time spent on teaching practice and one or two recollections which she slots into place,unsurprising when she was relating her time with Jeremy which spanned from Christmas 1983 until they broke up in September 1985.
You have only seen one version of her evidence, she changed her story that many times, police had to speak to her over 32 times before she felt comfortable enough to testify...
Why the need for a criminal like her to be seen and spiken to by the police if what she had to say was truthful and factual - funny how she never says anything about use of a silencer...
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You have only seen one version of her evidence, she changed her story that many times, police had to speak to her over 32 times before she felt comfortable enough to testify...
Why the need for a criminal like her to be seen and spiken to by the police if what she had to say was truthful and factual - funny how she never says anything about use of a silencer...
The silencer stood apart from Julie's testimony and the telephone call from Nevill evidence. You need to demolish all three to have any chance of obtaining Jeremy's acquittal.
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And by definition Steve UK you have to dismiss the The Criminal Appeal Act 1968, The European Human Rights Act 1998. The Prosecution witheld evidence from the Defence, The Police fabricated evidence, Julie Mugford committed perjury, the list Steve is endless, what should have happened, if The Judge Ducky Drake had spent less time with Cynthia Payne, was the trial being stopped. That way it would have put an end to the Once upon a time, sitting on my cloud wearing wearing rose tinted spectacles nonsense, you quote people that take subliminal messages from small birds, congenital liars, fraudsters, and some of the most corrupt people ever to have gone into a witness box, they lie on an oath sworn on the Bible and then you start harping on about what some author wrote to sell her book. I do not want to pour to much cold water on your somewhat surreal take to this, but surely in your world of "Moms Apple Pie" even You can see the conviction was unsafe !!!!!
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And by definition Steve UK you have to dismiss the The Criminal Appeal Act 1968, The European Human Rights Act 1998. The Prosecution witheld evidence from the Defence, The Police fabricated evidence, Julie Mugford committed perjury, the list Steve is endless, what should have happened, if The Judge Ducky Drake had spent less time with Cynthia Payne, was the trial being stopped. That way it would have put an end to the Once upon a time, sitting on my cloud wearing wearing rose tinted spectacles nonsense, you quote people that take subliminal messages from small birds, congenital liars, fraudsters, and some of the most corrupt people ever to have gone into a witness box, they lie on an oath sworn on the Bible and then you start harping on about what some author wrote to sell her book. I do not want to pour to much cold water on your somewhat surreal take to this, but surely in your world of "Moms Apple Pie" even You can see the conviction was unsafe !!!!!
At least you have countered with something,yet alas none of it has any credence or substance. You haven't even begun to demolish Julie's testimony,a story she has stuck to for 27 years.
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Campion you then have to dismiss the evidence of Julie Mugford,Charles Marsden,James Richards,Liz Rimington,Doris Foakes,Barbara Wilson,Robert Boutflour and Ann Eaton on the same basis..
Steve, perhaps you could show where in each their statements they said those things that you quoted? You can't just casually throw out names like that to support your own ideas without some solid basis that those people said the same as you have.
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At least you have countered with something,yet alas none of it has any credence or substance. You haven't even begun to demolish Julie's testimony,a story she has stuck to for 27 years.
To be fair Steve her testimony is just her word and nothing else. There is no one to back up her story that JB told her such things. And furthermore Bamber himself has also stuck to his story for 27 years as well. Yet you say that he is lying and Mugford is telling the truth?
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Ducky Drake was a regular at Cynthia Paynes parties, she said it live on the Wogan Show, she opened the front door and there was her favourite High Court Judge and she said I quote," Hello Ducky Drake"
At the time She was promoting the book and film about her life.
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It's the old nature versus nurture debate. I have no doubt Jeremy in his mind thought that he was doing everyone a favour in putting the old and mentally ill out of their misery,though most importantly he was looking after number one by obtaining the freedom and independence in his mind only money could bring.
I fail to see how, if Jeremy is the psychopath you say he is, he can exhibit such concern for the advanced age of his father, an upright, goodlooking 62 yr old, and care a jot for his ma and sister's mental afflictions.
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Ducky Drake was a regular at Cynthia Paynes parties, she said it live on the Wogan Show, she opened the front door and there was her favourite High Court Judge and she said I quote," Hello Ducky Drake"
At the time She was promoting the book and film about her life.
Certainly put himself in a compromising position there eh campion? Vertile ground for blackmail if you ask me. ;)
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Campion I love that line 'subliminal messages from small birds'....brilliant ;D ;D ;D
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Steve UK, isn't there evidence that Julie Mugford entered a contract with the News of the World, the day before Bamber arrived at Dover, which is Contempt of Court as are the rules of such contracts.
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I am sad to say that i agree with Steve_uk. When i joined this forum I was 100% convinced that JB was innocent, but the more I read and understand, i am now nearly convinced of his guilt. Julie Mugford's statements have a total ring of truth to them, and there are too many instances of other people quoting JB as saying totally inappropriate things both before and after the murders. I think he is a very charming and clever person, who has spent the last two decades understanding and taking advantage of the MANY police screw ups involved in his case, mistakes which may free him one day. Certainly, whether he is guilty or innocent the police should be ashamed of the way this investigation was handled.
For those of you that believe JB to be innocent, please don't be annoyed with me - I want so much to be back in your camp but i cannot ignore what my head is telling me (which may change again of course...!)
Unfortunately it seems rather more a case of believing what Steve says rather than looking at the plain facts?
And when did you join? Oh yes 25th of September. Seems you really examined all the evidence in that time. I really cannot accept that you were 100% convinced of his innocence? I've examined this evidence for 27 years and I am still not persuaded that he did it.
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Steve UK, isn't there evidence that Julie Mugford entered a contract with the News of the World, the day before Bamber arrived at Dover, which is Contempt of Court as are the rules of such contracts.
Yes her story appeard in the News of the World the Sunday after the guilty verdict. Quick work eh? Julie Mugford when asked when she signed the contract replied rather conveniently "I don't remember". ::) Hope she remembered to put the cheque in the bank. ;D
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Unfortunately it seems rather more a case of believing what Steve says rather than looking at the plain facts?
Boo, do you believe Jeremy is a psychopath eventhough 27 times of testing have said he shows not the slightest sign of any psychopathy/sociopathy tendencies or any sort of mental illness, that he has a lower than average tendency to such disorders. Or do you think it's possible to do what he is found guilty of doing without any mental dissorder?
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Steve, perhaps you could show where in each their statements they said those things that you quoted? You can't just casually throw out names like that to support your own ideas without some solid basis that those people said the same as you have.
Well I will do so of course but will only be accused of duplication in adversarial quarters:
1) Julie Mugford: Jeremy had planned the murders since Autumn 1984,having first drugged his parents' drinks to no effect,then dismissing burning down the farm because the house insurance was too low. True to type when Jeremy does get his hands on White House Farm it's the Meissen clock,other valuable ornaments,silverware and Nevill's video recorder which are removed by Jeremy and Brett Collins.
2) Charles Marsden: friend and acquaintance of Jeremy's whom Jeremy tries to keep onside by visiting him the first day after the murders. He had told Charles that his family would be all under one roof at Christmas 1984 and if the farm were to burn down then he would inherit everything.
3) Robert Boutflour: Jeremy spoke to him after the Osea Road Caravan Park robbery which he himself had perpetrated. As Boutflour dismissed Jeremy's suggestion of armed guards as vigilantism Jeremy replied: "Oh no Uncle Bobby,I could easily kill my parents".
4) Doris Foakes: Jeremy resented Sheila's apparent living it up in London in a flat bought her by June and Nevill,whereas Jeremy himself was castigated for not putting enough effort into the farm and had only a rented cottage belonging to a former farm worker. He tells Doris: "I'm not sharing any of my money with my sister".
5)Liz Rimington:"It's important to have money whilst you're young..I know I'm sick,I know I have such evil thoughts..I can't help it.."
6)James Richards(Goldsmiths student): testified under oath Jeremy had told him repeatedly with vehemence: "I f***ing hate my parents."
7) Barbara Wilson(farm secretary):Jeremy barked orders at her from Nevill's swivel office chair with his feet on the desk to "clear things out". She had also had a conversation with Nevill shortly before his death that "the shooting season is coming up..accidents do happen" and "I don't think I've got long.."
8)Ralph(Nevill) Bamber: "If he buys a 5 bore shotgun we'll all have to look out."
I could go on about Jeremy's refusal to answer Police questions,his attempt to sell nude photographs of Sheila to the Sun newspaper and his tearing up of photographs of the twins in the Maida Vale flat which he inherited directly as a result of their deaths.
His attempt to buy people off by paying for the funerals which he caused or the £400 he offered Julie for her silence was symptomatic of the wannabee yuppie in Thatcher's Britain,many of whom to coin a phrase "knew the price of everything and the value of nothing".
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To be fair Steve her testimony is just her word and nothing else. There is no one to back up her story that JB told her such things. And furthermore Bamber himself has also stuck to his story for 27 years as well. Yet you say that he is lying and Mugford is telling the truth?
I would be fascinated to know how the NOTW persuaded her to lift her skirt thigh high whilst they took her picture. Even more lurid is her foray into anal sex in her witness statement, which was character assassination from start to finish. They certainly were'nt intended to show Jeremy in a good light, to the point that she paints such a bad picture of him that one is left wondering about her own reasons for being in the relationship. According to what she would have us believe he didn't do a kind deed or utter a kind word from the start of their relationship. Difficult to work out what she ever saw in the version of his character she paints............save perhaps, the hope she would eventually come into money.
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Unfortunately it seems rather more a case of believing what Steve says rather than looking at the plain facts?
And when did you join? Oh yes 25th of September. Seems you really examined all the evidence in that time. I really cannot accept that you were 100% convinced of his innocence? I've examined this evidence for 27 years and I am still not persuaded that he did it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6FH-xU_wVk&feature=relmfu Nigerian crime scene.
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I don't mean to be pernickety but in which Statement to the Police do "armed guards" at Osea Caravan Park appear. I would have thought even with Stan Jones fertile imagination he would have said "That sounds like a line from "Dylan" the Rabbit, I hope the Jurors aren't fans". ( For those of you unfamilliar with Dylan he was a peace loving hippy that played the guitar).
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ps, a little detail I forgot to mention regarding "Dylan" he was also on acid
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I don't mean to be pernickety but in which Statement to the Police do "armed guards" at Osea Caravan Park appear. I would have thought even with Stan Jones fertile imagination he would have said "That sounds like a line from "Dylan" the Rabbit, I hope the Jurors aren't fans". ( For those of you unfamilliar with Dylan he was a peace loving hippy that played the guitar).
Do you mean Bob Dylan ;D ;D ;D
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Do you mean Bob Dylan ;D ;D ;D
April, are you laughing at my hero? :o :o :o
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Steve or anyone... have I picked this up wrong? (Reply 7)
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=3375.msg132808;topicseen#msg132808
It's the way I picked it up - I read this statement ages ago and it's always bothered me but I don't think anyone gives the same account about the silencer.
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I'm confused! Does all this mean that the silencer was returned to David Boutflour after he had found it and had handed it in to the police, or does it mean that the police had it first and that they gave to David Boutflour, so that he could pretend to have found it?
It's all very strange!
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Do you mean Bob Dylan ;D ;D ;D
Dylan in The Magic Roundabout.
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Dylan in The Magic Roundabout.
Sherks!!! :(
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Well I will do so of course but will only be accused of duplication in adversarial quarters:
1) Julie Mugford: Jeremy had planned the murders since Autumn 1984,having first drugged his parents' drinks to no effect,then dismissing burning down the farm because the house insurance was too low. True to type when Jeremy does get his hands on White House Farm it's the Meissen clock,other valuable ornaments,silverware and Nevill's video recorder which are removed by Jeremy and Brett Collins.
2) Charles Marsden: friend and acquaintance of Jeremy's whom Jeremy tries to keep onside by visiting him the first day after the murders. He had told Charles that his family would be all under one roof at Christmas 1984 and if the farm were to burn down then he would inherit everything.
3) Robert Boutflour: Jeremy spoke to him after the Osea Road Caravan Park robbery which he himself had perpetrated. As Boutflour dismissed Jeremy's suggestion of armed guards as vigilantism Jeremy replied: "Oh no Uncle Bobby,I could easily kill my parents".
4) Doris Foakes: Jeremy resented Sheila's apparent living it up in London in a flat bought her by June and Nevill,whereas Jeremy himself was castigated for not putting enough effort into the farm and had only a rented cottage belonging to a former farm worker. He tells Doris: "I'm not sharing any of my money with my sister".
5)Liz Rimington:"It's important to have money whilst you're young..I know I'm sick,I know I have such evil thoughts..I can't help it.."
6)James Richards(Goldsmiths student): testified under oath Jeremy had told him repeatedly with vehemence: "I f***ing hate my parents."
7) Barbara Wilson(farm secretary):Jeremy barked orders at her from Nevill's swivel office chair with his feet on the desk to "clear things out". She had also had a conversation with Nevill shortly before his death that "the shooting season is coming up..accidents do happen" and "I don't think I've got long.."
8)Ralph(Nevill) Bamber: "If he buys a 5 bore shotgun we'll all have to look out."
I could go on about Jeremy's refusal to answer Police questions,his attempt to sell nude photographs of Sheila to the Sun newspaper and his tearing up of photographs of the twins in the Maida Vale flat which he inherited directly as a result of their deaths.
His attempt to buy people off by paying for the funerals which he caused or the £400 he offered Julie for her silence was symptomatic of the wannabee yuppie in Thatcher's Britain,many of whom to coin a phrase "knew the price of everything and the value of nothing".
With all the people he is 'supposed' to have told, he might as well have sent out flyers!
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It's the way I picked it up - I read this statement ages ago and it's always bothered me but I don't think anyone gives the same account about the silencer.
It's astounding, imo.
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Steve or anyone... have I picked this up wrong? (Reply 7)
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=3375.msg132808;topicseen#msg132808
I don't know, I can't get the link to work :) :)
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It's astounding, imo.
In mine too!
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Steve UK, isn't there evidence that Julie Mugford entered a contract with the News of the World, the day before Bamber arrived at Dover, which is Contempt of Court as are the rules of such contracts.
I don't think anything was signed,but anyhow this cheque book journalism was yet another symptom of Jeremy's 1980s Thatcherism where,as it turned out he was hoisted on his own petard.
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I don't think anything was signed,but anyhow this cheque book journalism was yet another symptom of Jeremy's 1980s Thatcherism where,as it turned out he was hoisted on his own petard.
Nothing to do with politics,Steve.I'm sure Jeremy wasn't interested either.
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I don't think anything was signed,but anyhow this cheque book journalism was yet another symptom of Jeremy's 1980s Thatcherism where,as it turned out he was hoisted on his own petard.
For God's sake Steve, is there NOTHING you don't hold Jeremy responsible for!!!
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For God's sake Steve, is there NOTHING you don't hold Jeremy responsible for!!!
LOL - if he's responsible for Thatcherism that's a crime on it's own!!
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LOL - if he's responsible for Thatcherism that's a crime on it's own!!
I'll give you that one, Caroline ;D ;D ;D
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For God's sake Steve, is there NOTHING you don't hold Jeremy responsible for!!!
Possibly global warming. That's already been attributed to the relatives. However, if Steve's assembled anecdotes are true, is it any wonder that people felt Bamber had done it? He might as well have filled in a job application to become a lifer.
I'm still gobsmacked by the AP statement. It's going to take a while for me to work out how posters defending the relatives have got the gall to come on here and argue the toss that the 'single silencer found in the gun cupboard' claim is anything but absolute crooked tosh.
I'm starting to get fed up with some of the morals displayed on this forum.
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Possibly global warming. That's already been attributed to the relatives. However, if Steve's assembled anecdotes are true, is it any wonder that people felt Bamber had done it? He might as well have filled in a job application to become a lifer.
I'm still gobsmacked by the AP statement. It's going to take a while for me to work out how posters defending the relatives have got the gall to come on here and argue the toss that the 'single silencer found in the gun cupboard' claim is anything but absolute crooked tosh.
I'm starting to get fed up with some of the morals displayed on this forum.
Only starting? :)
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I'll give you that one, Caroline ;D ;D ;D
;)
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Possibly global warming. That's already been attributed to the relatives. However, if Steve's assembled anecdotes are true, is it any wonder that people felt Bamber had done it? He might as well have filled in a job application to become a lifer.
I'm still gobsmacked by the AP statement. It's going to take a while for me to work out how posters defending the relatives have got the gall to come on here and argue the toss that the 'single silencer found in the gun cupboard' claim is anything but absolute crooked tosh.
I'm starting to get fed up with some of the morals displayed on this forum.
Yeah, Roch, I'll let you have the global warming ;D ;D ;D ;D As for your last paragraph, that could be a whole OTHER debate :) :) :) :) :)
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Steve UK, Is the premiss of Your hostility towards Bamber, that in some way Your hostility is really aimed towards Margaret Thatcher and he is your closest link to her years in power !!!!!
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Steve UK, Is the premiss of Your hostility towards Bamber, that in some way Your hostility is really aimed towards Margaret Thatcher and he is your closest link to her years in power !!!!!
No not really. I admire Margaret Thatcher for achieveing the post of Prime Minister on her own merits in a man's world;it's just a pity there was so much social division as a result. I'm afraid I put Jeremy Bamber in a totally different category as a mass murderer who might just confess if he is treated decently in a state of the art penal facility on a Scottish island akin to how they do it in Norway.
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This is just an observation Steve UK, but descriptions you give for Bamber as the archytypal yuppie, is in a tone of personal disdain, maybe I should have added Britain to My Margaret Thatcher reference...
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"BINGO"
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Unfortunately it seems rather more a case of believing what Steve says rather than looking at the plain facts?
And when did you join? Oh yes 25th of September. Seems you really examined all the evidence in that time. I really cannot accept that you were 100% convinced of his innocence? I've examined this evidence for 27 years and I am still not persuaded that he did it.
Some people on this forum are determined to be quite unpleasant in the way they talk to people.
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Boo, do you believe Jeremy is a psychopath eventhough 27 times of testing have said he shows not the slightest sign of any psychopathy/sociopathy tendencies or any sort of mental illness, that he has a lower than average tendency to such disorders. Or do you think it's possible to do what he is found guilty of doing without any mental dissorder?
Hi maggie, that is an interesting point because I wanted to ask if there is any back-up regarding these 27 tests... I had heard about these but I have not come across anything (so far) to evidence them. Certainly I would think someone capable of those things has some kind of mental disorder!
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Hi maggie, that is an interesting point because I wanted to ask if there is any back-up regarding these 27 tests... I had heard about these but I have not come across anything (so far) to evidence them. Certainly I would think someone capable of those things has some kind of mental disorder!
Hi Boo, what do you mean by backup? He has had the other test as well alongside the tests. I forget the name of the other test but Roch knows it. It is a test which ensures that he isn't using his psychopathy to disguise the fact he has it...if you see what I mean. :o :o ;D. Seems pretty rigorous to me.
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Some people on this forum are determined to be quite unpleasant in the way they talk to people.
Nothing wrong with Lugg,Boo.He's a great poster,believe me.
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What I find to be more than a little bit upsetting, involves the way the COLP investigotors came to see me when I had written on Jeremys behalf to the then Home Secretary, David Waddington, at more or less the same time that Jeremy made his complaints, and COLP asked me if Jeremy had put me up to writing to Waddington? Whereas, privately, these very same police officers were writing reports saying that it was me who was putting jeremy up to complaining against the police?
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I don't think anything was signed,but anyhow this cheque book journalism was yet another symptom of Jeremy's 1980s Thatcherism where,as it turned out he was hoisted on his own petard.
Sounds more like a symptom of Julie Mugfords to me?
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Some people on this forum are determined to be quite unpleasant in the way they talk to people.
Where have I been unpleasant Boo? I'm just surprised that you can make your mind up so quickly that's all.
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Hi Boo we have no unpleasant posters on the forum some just speak more directly than others we are a great bunch really. :)
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What I find to be more than a little bit upsetting, involves the way the COLP investigotors came to see me when I had written on Jeremys behalf to the then Home Secretary, David Waddington, at more or less the same time that Jeremy made his complaints, and COLP asked me if Jeremy had put me up to writing to Waddimgton? Whereas, privately, these very same police officers were writing reports saying that it was me who was putting jeremy up to complaining against the police?y
Oh dear Mike,a case of bad-timing,that's all. **it happens.
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April 1, According to wikipedia " Dylan the Rabbit" is based on "Bob Dylan"
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April 1, According to wikipedia " Dylan the Rabbit" is based on "Bob Dylan"
That reminds me when I was in the Brecon Beacons camping with a friend and we decided to go to Newport to see his girlfriend. As we went through Abergavenny I saw this boy with long hair dressed as Bob Dylan sitting on this post box playing a guitar. On the way back around 6 hours later there was this same lad sitting on the same post box still playing the guitar. ;D
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That reminds me when I was in the Brecon Beacons camping with a friend and we decided to go to Newport to see his girlfriend. As we went through Abergavenny I saw this boy with long hair dressed as Bob Dylan sitting on this post box playing a guitar. On the way back around 6 hours later there was this same lad sitting on the same post box still playing the guitar. ;D
I bet his bum was sore,Lugg.
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April 1, According to wikipedia " Dylan the Rabbit" is based on "Bob Dylan"
YESSSSSSSSSS :) :) :) :) :)
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I bet his bum was sore,Lugg.
The answer is blowing in the wind. ;D
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Lugg you are a laugh a minute how can Boo think badly of you must have picked you up wrong. :)
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Boo registers on here claiming 100% innocence. Within 11 posts, Boo has turned almost 180 degrees, to near certainty of guilt, based on one of the three* pillars of the 'far right' guilty camp on the other forum. Namely JM's statement.
*The other two pillars being Babs Wilson's "I should never turn my back on that young man" etc and Colin Caffell's book.
Do us all a favour Boo. Go back to the drawing board for your next infiltration attempt.
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Well done Roch!
I still don't understand why Patti appeared to be in support of BOO & felt the need to edit 'my post to Boo' as opposed dealing with the troll, as you have done!
Steph, I wasn't attempting to contradict Patti. There's that many incursions on here, it's not possible for mods to both always call it right and please everyone in the process. Patti is an excellent mod and I feel we are lucky to have her help on here.
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David, I wasn't suggesting you were... I think it's made worse to mod when posts are removed without consultation with other mods.. my opinion of course... I thought the removal of posts was only in extreme situations.. ? Why does Patti use her powers to suit her own agenda I wonder?
Anyway - glad you've managed to remove another troll, that's all I'm saying...
We are all entitled to an opinion... I feel lucky that there are some good honest posters on here... who don't feel the need to boast about this, like some... :)
Steph, if Patti saw fit to intervene then she must have had good reason. Let's not escalate this any further.
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We move on...
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Hi Roch, maybe I can clear something up. Steph reported Boo. I edited Boo's post towards Lugg, I also edited Steph's post because it had Boo's quote on it too Lugg. :) :) :)
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Hi Roch, maybe I can clear something up. Steph reported Boo. I edited Boo's post towards Lugg, I also edited Steph's post because it had Boo's quote on it too Lugg. :) :) :)
Fair & square Patti. Speaking of quotes. I've been doing a lot of bracket fixing lately. In fact, I now regard my self as a time served bracket fixer :P
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Jeremy Bamber has not stopped complaining since 28 October 1986 when the white prison van arrived late at Chelmsford Crown Court and then sped off to take him to Wormwood Scrubs..
Steve_uk is on this forum to do a job. The obvious intention behind this stupid post is to distract attention from the matter under consideration, namely, the fact that Anthony Pargeter’s statement appears to support Jeremy’s claim that the silencer was handed back to the relatives before David Boutflour allegedly found it.
From a statement by Anthony Pargeter.
“Sometime after the 10 August 1985, I received a telephone call from David Boutflour who is a cousin of mine. He told me the silencer had been returned to the family, presumably by the police. He said there was a large scratch on it, some red paint on the knurled end and what appeared to be blood. I advised David to return it to the police straight away.”
Bamber’s allegations.
1 That police officers returned the sound moderator to members of his family, where with police knowledge it was tampered with and then returned to the police, where evidence was found. (statement pages 2 - 5)
2 That collusion took place between police officers and witnesses to put paint on the silencer. (statement page 9)
…...
7 That collusion took place between police officers and David Boutflour in making a statement which contains false evidence.
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Steve_uk is on this forum to do a job. The obvious intention behind this stupid post is to distract attention from the matter under consideration, namely, the fact that Anthony Pargeter’s statement appears to support Jeremy’s claim that the silencer was handed back to the relatives before David Boutflour allegedly found it.
From a statement by Anthony Pargeter.
“Sometime after the 10 August 1983, I received a telephone call from David Boutflour who is a cousin of mine. He told me the silencer had been returned to the family, presumably by the police. He said there was a large scratch on it, some red paint on the knurled end and what appeared to be blood. I advised David to return it to the police straight away.”
Bamber’s allegations.
1 That police officers returned the sound moderator to members of his family, where with police knowledge it was tampered with and then returned to the police, where evidence was found. (statement pages 2 - 5)
2 That collusion took place between police officers and witnesses to put paint on the silencer. (statement page 9)
…...
7 That collusion took place between police officers and David Boutflour in making a statement which contains false evidence.
Even a diagnosed nutcase can see that this silencer "so called evidence" should have been thrown out of court. It's a joke it really is.
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Steve_uk is on this forum to do a job. The obvious intention behind this stupid post is to distract attention from the matter under consideration, namely, the fact that Anthony Pargeter’s statement appears to support Jeremy’s claim that the silencer was handed back to the relatives before David Boutflour allegedly found it.
From a statement by Anthony Pargeter.
“Sometime after the 10 August 1983, I received a telephone call from David Boutflour who is a cousin of mine. He told me the silencer had been returned to the family, presumably by the police. He said there was a large scratch on it, some red paint on the knurled end and what appeared to be blood. I advised David to return it to the police straight away.”
Bamber’s allegations.
1 That police officers returned the sound moderator to members of his family, where with police knowledge it was tampered with and then returned to the police, where evidence was found. (statement pages 2 - 5)
2 That collusion took place between police officers and witnesses to put paint on the silencer. (statement page 9)
…...
7 That collusion took place between police officers and David Boutflour in making a statement which contains false evidence.
It happens every time he can't answer a question but thanks for bringing it back Martin!
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Even a diagnosed nutcase can see that this silencer "so called evidence" should have been thrown out of court. It's a joke it really is.
Or even an undiagnosed one!! :D
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Can you also clear up why you appear to be in support of trolls - seeing as you don't wish to move on... as Roch suggested....
I am not a troll! ... way to make the newbie feel welcome. I am keeping quiet from now on :(
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Steve_uk is on this forum to do a job. The obvious intention behind this stupid post is to distract attention from the matter under consideration, namely, the fact that Anthony Pargeter’s statement appears to support Jeremy’s claim that the silencer was handed back to the relatives before David Boutflour allegedly found it.
Has Steve ever posted about the silencer?
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Has Steve ever posted about the silencer?
Not really, only in regard to DNA evidence.
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I have posted many times on the silencer issue:several of them are on the thread started by nugnug "what actually convicted Jeremy Bamber". I'm afraid the Defence has to explain how June's DNA was found on the silencer with 17 of 20 markers of Sheila's also found there.The Defence is also going back to its default position of naming all Prosecution witnesses liars,instead of ever examining the possibility that is it Jeremy who is the serial liar in this case.
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I have posted many times on the silencer issue:several of them are on the thread started by nugnug "what actually convicted Jeremy Bamber". I'm afraid the Defence has to explain how June's DNA was found on the silencer with 17 of 20 markers of Sheila's also found there.The Defence is also going back to its default position of naming all Prosecution witnesses liars,instead of ever examining the possibility that is it Jeremy who is the serial liar in this case.
Hi Steve. 17 out of 20 markers is insufficient evidence and would not hold up in court, because it is only likely that it was hers and it could be that it was her sisters...Also the DNA tests can not say if the DNA was blood or not. See R v Bamber.
Back in 1985/6 we had not got the technology we have today. The way they did blood tests were based on groups. This is how it was...
In Britain the blood groups of population were as follows: O 46% A 42% B 9% AB 3% So baring this in mind, nearly half the population had were blood group A and O
The silencer its self was taken from a crime scene, therefore it was contaminated form the moment it was touched. Why the family took that evidence away is mystery to me. Because their DNA has bound to have been on it. Was it ever finger-printed? If this silencer was introduced in a court of law today, I feel sure that it would be admissible. Reason for that is because it would be likely that the evidence had been destroyed form the moment it was found. :) :) :) :)
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I have posted many times on the silencer issue:several of them are on the thread started by nugnug "what actually convicted Jeremy Bamber". I'm afraid the Defence has to explain how June's DNA was found on the silencer with 17 of 20 markers of Sheila's also found there.The Defence is also going back to its default position of naming all Prosecution witnesses liars,instead of ever examining the possibility that is it Jeremy who is the serial liar in this case.
I have never called anyone a liar (cept Mugford and that is proven from the check fraud statement). I need not comment on the DNA evidence (again) because Patti has explained it.
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I have never called anyone a liar (cept Mugford and that is proven from the check fraud statement). I need not comment on the DNA evidence (again) because Patti has explained it.
Shall we invest in padded walls lol :) :) :) :)
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Shall we invest in padded walls lol :) :) :) :)
Either that or a padded hat! ;D
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Caroline bags I wear the gold hat and you girls can wear silver and steve no hat :)
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Caroline bags I wear the gold hat and you girls can wear silver and steve no hat :)
I prefer silver Susan so the gold's yours!! :)