Complaints made by Jeremy Bamber in 1990...

[Boo]

The problem with that theory is that Julie Mugford and her social circle have maintained the same story for the past 27 years. I see that perjury on the part of Police officers is also alleged,when it would have been far simpler to go along with DCI Taff Jones' theory of four murders and a suicide.

Whether Jeremy's psychological problems stemmed from his adoption and therefore deprivation of his natural parents,or whether it came from the influences of the first two female influences in his life,June and Sheila,we will never know. Sheila's grandfather had been a chaplain to the Archbishop of Canterbury so the study of religion was in the family. Jeremy's natural father Major Leslie Grantham had been in the army so the guns factor was there,as well as the snobbishness which lead him to obtain employment in Royal circles.

It's the old nature versus nurture debate. I have no doubt Jeremy in his mind thought that he was doing everyone a favour in putting the old and mentally ill out of their misery,though most importantly he was looking after number one by obtaining the freedom and independence in his mind only money could bring.

I am sad to say that i agree with Steve_uk. When i joined this forum I was 100% convinced that JB was innocent, but the more I read and understand, i am now nearly convinced of his guilt. Julie Mugford's statements have a total ring of truth to them, and there are too many instances of other people quoting JB as saying totally inappropriate things both before and after the murders. I think he is a very charming and clever person, who has spent the last two decades understanding and taking advantage of the MANY police screw ups involved in his case, mistakes which may free him one day. Certainly, whether he is guilty or innocent the police should be ashamed of the way this investigation was handled.

For those of you that believe JB to be innocent, please don't be annoyed with me - I want so much to be back in your camp but i cannot ignore what my head is telling me (which may change again of course...!)

[mike tesko]

The problem with that theory is that Julie Mugford and her social circle have maintained the same story for the past 27 years. I see that perjury on the part of Police officers is also alleged,when it would have been far simpler to go along with DCI Taff Jones' theory of four murders and a suicide.

Whether Jeremy's psychological problems stemmed from his adoption and therefore deprivation of his natural parents,or whether it came from the influences of the first two female influences in his life,June and Sheila,we will never know. Sheila's grandfather had been a chaplain to the Archbishop of Canterbury so the study of religion was in the family. Jeremy's natural father Major Leslie Grantham had been in the army so the guns factor was there,as well as the snobbishness which lead him to obtain employment in Royal circles.

It's the old nature versus nurture debate. I have no doubt Jeremy in his mind thought that he was doing everyone a favour in putting the old and mentally ill out of their misery,though most importantly he was looking after number one by obtaining the freedom and independence in his mind only money could bring.

It would depend which of the 30 odd different versions of Mugfords evidence you want to rely upon when you say she has been consistent...

She is a pathological liar who will say anything if you cross her palm with silver or pieces of 8, or the odd contract for a
newspaper article, or the promise of dropping the odd handful of criminal charges she might be responsible for having committed...

[mike tesko]

It would depend which of the 30 odd different versions of Mugfords evidence you want to rely upon when you say she has been consistent...

She is a pathological liar who will say anything if you cross her palm with silver or pieces of 8, or the odd contract for a
newspaper article, or the promise of dropping the odd handful of criminal charges she might be responsible for having committed...

Oh...

And lets not forget - "hell hath no fury like a woman scorned"...

[Steve_uk]

It would depend which of the 30 odd different versions of Mugfords evidence you want to rely upon when you say she has been consistent...

She is a pathological liar who will say anything if you cross her palm with silver or pieces of 8, or the odd contract for a
newspaper article, or the promise of dropping the odd handful of criminal charges she might be responsible for having committed...

I have not picked up the Jeremy supporters on this point heretofore but there has been a deafening silence by them since Julie's 24 page statement was published by Mike for the second time on this site a few days ago. As far as I can tell there was only one inaccuracy when she corrected herself on her time spent on teaching practice and one or two recollections which she slots into place,unsurprising when she was relating her time with Jeremy which spanned from Christmas 1983 until they broke up in September 1985.

[susan]

Hi Boo

Don't apologise for your own beliefs follow your own gut feelings and be true to yourself. 

[campion]

It's the old nature versus nurture debate. I have no doubt Jeremy in his mind thought that he was doing everyone a favour in putting the old and mentally ill out of their misery,though most importantly he was looking after number one by obtaining the freedom and independence in his mind only money could bring.

This is utter bollocks.......

I've fixed your quote box Campers

[Steve_uk]

Campion you then have to dismiss the evidence of Julie Mugford,Charles Marsden,James Richards,Liz Rimington,Doris Foakes,Barbara Wilson,Robert Boutflour and Ann Eaton on the same basis..

[mike tesko]

I have not picked up the Jeremy supporters on this point heretofore but there has been a deafening silence by them since Julie's 24 page statement was published by Mike for the second time on this site a few days ago. As far as I can tell there was only one inaccuracy when she corrected herself on her time spent on teaching practice and one or two recollections which she slots into place,unsurprising when she was relating her time with Jeremy which spanned from Christmas 1983 until they broke up in September 1985.

You have only seen one version of her evidence, she changed her story that many times, police had to speak to her over 32 times before she felt comfortable enough to testify...

Why the need for a criminal like her to be seen and spiken to by the police if what she had to say was truthful and factual - funny how she never says anything about use of a silencer...

[Steve_uk]

You have only seen one version of her evidence, she changed her story that many times, police had to speak to her over 32 times before she felt comfortable enough to testify...

Why the need for a criminal like her to be seen and spiken to by the police if what she had to say was truthful and factual - funny how she never says anything about use of a silencer...

The silencer stood apart from Julie's testimony and the telephone call from Nevill evidence. You need to demolish all three to have any chance of obtaining Jeremy's acquittal.

[campion]

 And by definition Steve UK you have to dismiss the The Criminal Appeal Act 1968, The European Human Rights Act 1998. The Prosecution witheld evidence from the Defence, The Police fabricated evidence, Julie Mugford committed perjury, the list Steve is endless, what should have happened, if The Judge Ducky Drake had spent less time with Cynthia Payne, was the trial being stopped. That way it would have put an end to the Once upon a time, sitting on my cloud wearing wearing rose tinted spectacles nonsense, you quote people that take subliminal messages from small birds, congenital liars, fraudsters, and some of the most corrupt people ever to have gone into a witness box, they lie on an oath sworn on the Bible and then you start harping on about what some author wrote to sell her book. I do not want to pour to much cold water on your somewhat surreal take to this, but surely in your world of "Moms Apple Pie" even You can see the conviction was unsafe !!!!!

[Steve_uk]

And by definition Steve UK you have to dismiss the The Criminal Appeal Act 1968, The European Human Rights Act 1998. The Prosecution witheld evidence from the Defence, The Police fabricated evidence, Julie Mugford committed perjury, the list Steve is endless, what should have happened, if The Judge Ducky Drake had spent less time with Cynthia Payne, was the trial being stopped. That way it would have put an end to the Once upon a time, sitting on my cloud wearing wearing rose tinted spectacles nonsense, you quote people that take subliminal messages from small birds, congenital liars, fraudsters, and some of the most corrupt people ever to have gone into a witness box, they lie on an oath sworn on the Bible and then you start harping on about what some author wrote to sell her book. I do not want to pour to much cold water on your somewhat surreal take to this, but surely in your world of "Moms Apple Pie" even You can see the conviction was unsafe !!!!!

At least you have countered with something,yet alas none of it has any credence or substance. You haven't even begun to demolish Julie's testimony,a story she has stuck to for 27 years.

[Lugg]

Campion you then have to dismiss the evidence of Julie Mugford,Charles Marsden,James Richards,Liz Rimington,Doris Foakes,Barbara Wilson,Robert Boutflour and Ann Eaton on the same basis..

Steve, perhaps you could show where in each their statements they said those things that you quoted? You can't just casually throw out names like that to support your own ideas without some solid basis that those people said the same as you have.

[Lugg]

At least you have countered with something,yet alas none of it has any credence or substance. You haven't even begun to demolish Julie's testimony,a story she has stuck to for 27 years.

To be fair Steve her testimony is just her word and nothing else. There is no one to back up her story that JB told her such things. And furthermore Bamber himself has also stuck to his story for 27 years as well. Yet you say that he is lying and Mugford is telling the truth?

[campion]

 Ducky Drake was a regular at Cynthia Paynes parties, she said it live on the Wogan Show, she opened the front door and there was her favourite High Court Judge and she said I quote," Hello Ducky Drake"
 At the time She was promoting the book and film about her life.   

[Jane]

It's the old nature versus nurture debate. I have no doubt Jeremy in his mind thought that he was doing everyone a favour in putting the old and mentally ill out of their misery,though most importantly he was looking after number one by obtaining the freedom and independence in his mind only money could bring.

I fail to see how, if Jeremy is the psychopath you say he is, he can exhibit such concern for the advanced age of his father, an upright, goodlooking 62 yr old, and care a jot for his ma and sister's mental afflictions.