The meeting with The Sun newspaper:

[Adam]

Of course the article made JB look bad - but if Sheila was party to having pornographic pictures taken when she had two young sons - and leaving them around for people to find of course she would look bad as well.

But now it seems that the paper made JB out to be telling lies and the pictures may not have existed confused - I am

Jan you must stop supporting Jeremy.

He tried to sell pictures of Sheila to The Sun. For money.

[lookout]

I've been reading the letter that CC drafted out to Neville and it's so distressing to read how those twins were suffering. It must have been a terrible existence for them as that's all I can call it,between being with their mother and staying with their grandmother at WHF. It's heartbreaking.

[Adam]

In all the excitement I nearly forgot. He also massacred his family.

[Caroline]

  I don't think they are in the archives, Susan, but they are in a thread titled simply, "Colin Caffell witness statements" and it was started on 24th september 2011, if this helps

You mean this one? http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1560.msg47925.html#msg47925

I have typed it out because it's not easy to read. This statement backs up to the letter, what he said in his book and is more damming to Jeremy. Your previous post;

  Hi Susan, does Colin say this in his book?
     According to his witness statement, Jeremy informed Colin of the existence of the photos and agreed that Colin could have them in order to destroy them. This was after Jeremy had cleaned up Sheila's flat. There is no suggestion that Colin suspected that Jeremy would sell them and the discussion was clearly amicable. In fact it seems clear that Colin suspected that the relatives were trying to frame Jeremy.
    In fact Colin was so unconcerned about Jeremy's holding of the pictures that he went to stay with friends in Cornwall for a week leaving only a loose arrangement with Jeremy to collect them at a later unarranged date. These do not appear to be the actions of a man who suspected that Jeremy would attempt to sell them.
   

I honestly can't believe you wrote the above after reading the following statement! I will paste it now and see what others think (I can probably guess though). This backs up Collin's book and there is CLEAR concern in his words and the reason he wrote to Jeremy was out of concern for what he might do with the photographs. Also note that he confirms the words used in The Sun article were 'exactly' the same as those used by Jeremy to describe the slides to him (Colin). And where does he even hint that he thinks Jeremy is being framed by the relatives?? 

Colin's Statement 24th Sept 1985

During the time of my courtship of Sheila Bamber and before my marriage to her, I took a number of photographs of her.

These photographs include a number which were taken near Whitehouse Farm, Tolleshunt D'Arcy, Essex. These were of Sheila sunbathing in a field and at the time she had no clothes on at all. These photo's were processed onto slides.

At the time Sheila and I separated, she kept these slides in her possession. I have not seen the slides for some years. However, I presumed Sheila had them in her possession at her flat at No 3, Moorhead Mansions.

On Saturday I went to Sheila's flat, there are saw Jeremy Bamber, Sheila's brother, he sat in the sitting room, chatting generally. I had gone to the flat to sort out some of the property (clothes, toys) which belonged to my twin sons,

Jeremy had cleaned up the flat and had placed my sons belongings into plastic bags.

There were a number of photographs, these being about four albums of family shots, some prints of Sheila's modelling folio and a box of slides numbering approximately twenty four.

The slides had been professionally taken and were of Sheila in various states of undress, in a paddling pool, I think. I would describe these slides as soft pornography as they were quite explicit in detail. I asked Jeremy if I could take these slides and destroy them. He agreed that I could take them, which I did. Jeremy also told me that there was some more slides of a similar nature, possibly two or three boxes at his house at Head Street, Goldghanger, Essex.

Jeremy described these slides as being VERY explicit. He told me that one box was of Sheila sunbathing (previously described) and that the others were similar to the slides at Sheila's flat. I asked Jeremy if I could also have these slides and he said yes. No arrangement was made between Jeremy and I to collect these items.

That day Jeremy gave me a key to the flat to enable me to gain access during the next day to collect some of the property belonging to my twin sons.

About midday on Sunday 8th September 1985, I returned to the flat and removed various items, basically toys and books.

Whilst visiting the flat that weekend I realised that anything owned by Sheila which had any value had been removed from the premises.

On Friday 13th September 1985, I travelled by car to Cornwall for a short break and to stay with friends in that county.

Whilst on holiday, I wrote to Jeremy addressing the letter to Moorhead Mansions. I repeated my request of the photographs of Sheila.

A couple of hours after posting this letter, to Jeremy, I saw an article in The Sun newspaper dated 17th September 1985.

This article concerned the incident at Whitehouse Farm during which time, my former wife and twin sons were killed. The reporter described how he met Jeremy Bamber and that Jeremy was offering pornographic photographs of Sheila for sale. In the article, Jeremy is alleged to have said “They show everything right down to the last detail”.
This is 'exactly' how Jeremy described the slides to me when I visited him on 7th September.

I then wrote a second letter to Jeremy in which I described the newspaper report and wanted to know what he was doing. As yet, I have not received a reply from Jeremy and have had no contact with him.

Having removed the other slides from Sheila's flat, I disposed of them by putting them in the dustbin, I did in fact put the slides into a dustbin liner and handed them to a refuse collector to ensure they went into the dustcart.

[gringo]

You mean this one? http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1560.msg47925.html#msg47925

I have typed it out because it's not easy to read. This statement backs up to the letter, what he said in his book and is more damming to Jeremy. Your previous post;

I honestly can't believe you wrote the above after reading the following statement! I will paste it now and see what others think (I can probably guess though). This backs up Collin's book and there is CLEAR concern in his words and the reason he wrote to Jeremy was out of concern for what he might do with the photographs. Also note that he confirms the words used in The Sun article were 'exactly' the same as those used by Jeremy to describe the slides to him (Colin).

Colin's Statement 24th Sept 1985

During the time of my courtship of Sheila Bamber and before my marriage to her, I took a number of photographs of her.

These photographs include a number which were taken near Whitehouse Farm, Tolleshunt D'Arcy, Essex. These were of Sheila sunbathing in a field and at the time she had no clothes on at all. These photo's were processed onto slides.

At the time Sheila and I separated, she kept these slides in her possession. I have not seen the slides for some years. However, I presumed Sheila had them in her possession at her flat at No 3, Moorhead Mansions.

On Saturday I went to Sheila's flat, there are saw Jeremy Bamber, Sheila's brother, he sat in the sitting room, chatting generally. I had gone to the flat to sort out some of the property (clothes, toys) which belonged to my twin sons,

Jeremy had cleaned up the flat and had placed my sons belongings into plastic bags.

There were a number of photographs, these being about four albums of family shots, some prints of Sheila's modelling folio and a box of slides numbering approximately twenty four.

The slides had been professionally taken and were of Sheila in various states of undress, in a paddling pool, I think. I would describe these slides as soft pornography as they were quite explicit in detail. I asked Jeremy if I could take these slides and destroy them. He agreed that I could take them, which I did. Jeremy also told me that there was some more slides of a similar nature, possibly two or three boxes at his house at Head Street, Goldghanger, Essex.

Jeremy described these slides as being VERY explicit. He told me that one box was of Sheila sunbathing (previously described) and that the others were similar to the slides at Sheila's flat. I asked Jeremy if I could also have these slides and he said yes. No arrangement was made between Jeremy and I to collect these items.

That day Jeremy gave me a key to the flat to enable me to gain access during the next day to collect some of the property belonging to my twin sons.

About midday on Sunday 8th September 1985, I returned to the flat and removed various items, basically toys and books.

Whilst visiting the flat that weekend I realised that anything owned by Sheila which had any value had been removed from the premises.

On Friday 13th September 1985, I travelled by car to Cornwall for a short break and to stay with friends in that county.

Whilst on holiday, I wrote to Jeremy addressing the letter to Moorhead Mansions. I repeated my request of the photographs of Sheila.

A couple of hours after posting this letter, to Jeremy, I saw an article in The Sun newspaper dated 17th September 1985.

This article concerned the incident at Whitehouse Farm during which time, my former wife and twin sons were killed. The reporter described how he met Jeremy Bamber and that Jeremy was offering pornographic photographs of Sheila for sale. In the article, Jeremy is alleged to have said “They show everything right down to the last detail”.
This is 'exactly' how Jeremy described the slides to me when I visited him on 7th September.

I then wrote a second letter to Jeremy in which I described the newspaper report and wanted to know what he was doing. As yet, I have not received a reply from Jeremy and have had no contact with him.

Having removed the other slides from Sheila's flat, I disposed of them by putting them in the dustbin, I did in fact put the slides into a dustbin liner and handed them to a refuse collector to ensure they went into the dustcart.

  I had already typed this out pages back and it does not support the notion that Colin suspected that Jeremy would sell them. The statement makes clear that that Jeremy gave one set of photos to Colin and agreed that Colin could collect the others which were in Goldhanger.. This was agreed on the 7th September and Colin went to stay with friends on the 13th September and wrote 4 days later on the 17th September to repeat his request for the pictures of Sheila.
    If he was cóncerned about Jeremy's intentions why did he not arrange to collect them at the earliest opportunity? He left them with Jeremy for six days before going away and then only wrote to repeat his request four days into his break and ten days after Jeremy himself had informed Coilin of their existence.
    These do not appear to be the actions of someone who is concerned about Jeremy's intentions.

[Caroline]

  I had already typed this out pages back and it does not support the notion that Colin suspected that Jeremy would sell them. The statement makes clear that that Jeremy gave one set of photos to Colin and agreed that Colin could collect the others which were in Goldhanger.. This was agreed on the 7th September and Colin went to stay with friends on the 13th September and wrote 4 days later on the 17th September to repeat his request for the pictures of Sheila.
    If he was cóncerned about Jeremy's intentions why did he not arrange to collect them at the earliest opportunity? He left them with Jeremy for six days before going away and then only wrote to repeat his request four days into his break and ten days after Jeremy himself had informed Coilin of their existence.
    These do not appear to be the actions of someone who is concerned about Jeremy's intentions.

He SAID that he was concerned while on break in Cornwell, NOT when Jeremy mentioned initially mentioned the pictures - which is why he wrote the letter. You're once again TRYING to play down the FACTS that show Jeremy in all his glory. This is even worse than your attempt to try and suggest Neville called the police. The statement shows that Colin had clear concerns and these concerns are expanded in his book. He also clearly states that The Sun article quoted the same words used by Jeremy to describe the photographs to Colin - I see you didn't bother to comment on that. Not surprising as you have no where to go with it!

Oh and where does he suggest that the relatives were trying to frame Jeremy?

[Patti]

Well one thing has come from this thread and that is that they were not photographs they were slides, taken by a professional photographer.

Plus, although they were explicit down to the last detail.  There is nothing to prove sex aids were used.  The only person to say this is Fielder...unless someone has gained more information than meeeeeeeeeeeeee 

[Caroline]

Well one thing has come from this thread and that is that they were not photographs they were slides, taken by a professional photographer.

Plus, although they were explicit down to the last detail.  There is nothing to prove sex aids were used.  The only person to say this is Fielder...unless someone has gained more information than meeeeeeeeeeeeee 

The other thing is that whether sex aids were described or not, Jeremy tried to sell the pictures/slides. There is nothing clearer.

[gringo]

He SAID that he was concerned while on break in Cornwell, NOT when Jeremy mentioned initially mentioned the pictures - which is why he wrote the letter. You're once again TRYING to play down the FACTS that show Jeremy in all his glory. This is even worse than your attempt to try and suggest Neville called the police. The statement shows that Colin had clear concerns and these concerns are expanded in his book. He also clearly states that The Sun article quoted the same words used by Jeremy to describe the photographs to Colin - I see you didn't bother to comment on that. Not surprising as you have no where to go with it!

Oh and where does he suggest that the relatives were trying to frame Jeremy?

   His actions strongly suggest that he was not concerned. His statement does not claim that he became concerned whilst on his break. There is no reason offered as to why Colin suddenly went from being unconcerned to concerned about Jeremy's intentions and it is reasonable to conclude that Colin did not suspect that Jeremy would attempt to sell them. What was it that caused Colin to become concerned whilst in Cornwall when for ten days he had indicated no concern?
   The alleged use of the same words is barely worth dismissing, which is why I didn't bother, as Colin himself gives different versions of the words used between his witness statements and his book. Describing explicit pictures as being "explicit" is unlikely to be a unique way of describing explicit pictures is it?
    The following is lifted verbatim from Colin's 11th September statement,
    "At about 9am on Monday 9.9.85 I received a phone call from David Boutflour to the effect that "we" had all been making statements to the police and we are sure that Sheila couldn't have pulled the trigger. He wouldn't say anymore and that I should be prepared for a bombshell in the press on Tuesday, 10.9.85. I asked him if Jeremy knew about it and he said he knew.
      I unsuccessfully phoned Jeremy that day. My first impression was that all the family were ganging up on Jeremy because of Jeremy's controlling interest in the caravan site and other financial things."
      I don't know about you but that suggests to me that Colin suspected the relatives were trying to frame Jeremy.
   

[Patti]

The other thing is that whether sex aids were described or not, Jeremy tried to sell the pictures/slides. There is nothing clearer.

You are beginning to sound like a parrot Caroline hahahaha 

I have not disputed the attempt to sell photo's of his sister whether they be normal or nude, I think its disrespectful and wrong and I think the whole forum agrees with me on this.

What I am disputing is the use of sex aids on those stills. Personally, I don't think there are any, we only have the word of Fielder on that.  I wonder if the real article published on the 17th mentions sex aids.  It would be interesting to see if they do. 

[Caroline]

You are beginning to sound like a parrot Caroline hahahaha 

I have not disputed the attempt to sell photo's of his sister whether they be normal or nude, I think its disrespectful and wrong and I think the whole forum agrees with me on this.

What I am disputing is the use of sex aids on those stills. Personally, I don't think there are any, we only have the word of Fielder on that.  I wonder if the real article published on the 17th mentions sex aids.  It would be interesting to see if they do. 

Sometimes you have to kep repeating things Patti because people deliberately try to play down the negatives and give the impression that Jeremy was just a country lad sucking on a piece of straw not really knowing his arse from his elbow. Well, he may have been all of those things but he was also a callous individual who (once again - squawk - pieces of eight!!) tried to sell porno pics of his dead sister.

I honestly don't think the pictures or the content are important, but Jeremy's intention to sell them speaks volumes. I'm trying to get hold of the article - will scan it if I manage to get a copy.

[Caroline]

  His actions strongly suggest that he was not concerned. Rubbish, that's simply your spin and an attempt to play down his action!! His statement does not claim that he became concerned whilst on his break. I didn't say it did, I said he expanded in his book There is no reason offered as to why Colin suddenly went from being unconcerned to concerned about Jeremy's intentions and it is reasonable to conclude that Colin did not suspect that Jeremy would attempt to sell them. He wasn't unconcerned, he was concerned, him being unconcerned comes from you What was it that caused Colin to become concerned whilst in Cornwall when for ten days he had indicated no concern? He didn't indicate no concern - that comes from you!!
   The alleged use of the same words is barely worth dismissing, which is why I didn't bother, as Colin himself gives different versions of the words used between his witness statements and his book. Describing explicit pictures as being "explicit" is unlikely to be a unique way of describing explicit pictures is it? No, you didn't mention it because you can't excuse it!
    The following is lifted verbatim from Colin's 11th September statement,
    "At about 9am on Monday 9.9.85 I received a phone call from David Boutflour to the effect that "we" had all been making statements to the police and we are sure that Sheila couldn't have pulled the trigger. He wouldn't say anymore and that I should be prepared for a bombshell in the press on Tuesday, 10.9.85. I asked him if Jeremy knew about it and he said he knew.
      I unsuccessfully phoned Jeremy that day. My first impression was that all the family were ganging up on Jeremy because of Jeremy's controlling interest in the caravan site and other financial things."
      I don't know about you but that suggests to me that Colin suspected the relatives were trying to frame Jeremy. Not at all, it sounds like he thought they were 'ganging up on him' hence why he used that term and not 'framing' - that's YOUR word - just like 'unconcerned' is YOUR word. Colin said he was concerned so I'll go with what HE said about how HE felt and I'll leave you to 'dream on' but don't get too dizzy from spinning 
 

[gringo]

  Colin used the words "ganging up" in the context of DB stating that "we" had all been making statements to the police and Colin thought that this was because of financial affairs. DB had also stated that they were sure that Sheila couldn't have pulled the trigger. Colin was also made aware of contacts between the relatives and the press and negative stories being given by the relatives. It is also clear that at this stage Colin still believed that Sheila was responsible.
    All of that can be derived from Colin's statements so although he doesn't use the word framing, basic comprehension should allow you to discern that from the context of the comments.

[Caroline]

  Colin used the words "ganging up" in the context of DB stating that "we" had all been making statements to the police and Colin thought that this was because of financial affairs. DB had also stated that they were sure that Sheila couldn't have pulled the trigger. Colin was also made aware of contacts between the relatives and the press and negative stories being given by the relatives. It is also clear that at this stage Colin still believed that Sheila was responsible.
    All of that can be derived from Colin's statements so although he doesn't use the word framing, basic comprehension should allow you to discern that from the context of the comments.

No it can't be derived at all, that's the problem, you derive quite a lot of things rather than sticking to what's been said or done. Someone accused me of putting words in their mouth earlier - I wonder if they will challenge you with the same comment?

[gringo]

No it can't be derived at all, that's the problem, you derive quite a lot of things rather than sticking to what's been said or done. Someone accused me of putting words in their mouth earlier - I wonder if they will challenge you with the same comment?

   Which bit can't be derived then?
     1.) That Colin used the words "ganging up" in the context of DB stating that "we" had all been making statements to the police and that Colin thought that this was because of financial affairs. (this is all stated by Colin himself)
     2.) That DB stated that they were sure that Sheila couldn't have pulled the trigger. (again directly lifted from Colin's statement.)
     3.)  That Colin was made aware of contacts between the relatives and the press and negative stories being given by the relatives. ( Colin is informed by DB to prepare for a bombshell in the press the next day. I am sure that Colin can work out from this that DB has prior knowledge of this bombshell and therefore must have contact with the press regarding negative stories.)
     4.) That it was clear that Colin still believed Sheila responsible at this stage. (Colin talks about chatting generally with Jeremy, he obtains a set of prints as well as other belongings and arranges to collect others at a later unarranged date. He refers to the relatives statements implicating Jeremy as "ganging up" and concludes that it is because of financial matters. Funny that he doesn't suggest that it is because he murdered his two sons, which suggests to anyone with an ounce of comprehension skills that he did not suspect Jeremy at this time.)
     That is all I said in my post. So which bit  or bits do you struggle to discern yourself? and where did I put words into anyone's mouth?