The meeting with The Sun newspaper:

[Caroline]

   Which bit can't be derived then?
     1.) That Colin used the words "ganging up" in the context of DB stating that "we" had all been making statements to the police and that Colin thought that this was because of financial affairs. (this is all stated by Colin himself) - he didn't use the word 'frame' that's coming from you.
     2.) That DB stated that they were sure that Sheila couldn't have pulled the trigger. (again directly lifted from Colin's statement.) He's simply repeating what he was told
     3.)  That Colin was made aware of contacts between the relatives and the press and negative stories being given by the relatives. ( Colin is informed by DB to prepare for a bombshell in the press the next day. I am sure that Colin can work out from this that DB has prior knowledge of this bombshell and therefore must have contact with the press regarding negative stories.) And?
     4.) That it was clear that Colin still believed Sheila responsible at this stage. (Colin talks about chatting generally with Jeremy, he obtains a set of prints as well as other belongings and arranges to collect others at a later unarranged date. Colin said that Jeremy chatted generally not that 'they' did, you're deliberately trying to play down what Colin said. Colin was actually annoyed that he had stuffed the children's stuff into bags and later because of the pictures. you're only reading from one source - he expends in his book. However, the nonchalant rendition of his statement you supply is clearly an attempt to play down his concerns. He refers to the relatives statements implicating Jeremy as "ganging up" and concludes that it is because of financial matters. Funny that he doesn't suggest that it is because he murdered his two sons, which suggests to anyone with an ounce of comprehension skills that he did not suspect Jeremy at this time.) and?
     That is all I said in my post. So which bit  or bits do you struggle to discern yourself? and where did I put words into anyone's mouth? Substituting 'ganged up on' for framed, which is your slant

[maggie]

You mean this one? http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1560.msg47925.html#msg47925

I have typed it out because it's not easy to read. This statement backs up to the letter, what he said in his book and is more damming to Jeremy. Your previous post;

I honestly can't believe you wrote the above after reading the following statement! I will paste it now and see what others think (I can probably guess though). This backs up Collin's book and there is CLEAR concern in his words and the reason he wrote to Jeremy was out of concern for what he might do with the photographs. Also note that he confirms the words used in The Sun article were 'exactly' the same as those used by Jeremy to describe the slides to him (Colin). And where does he even hint that he thinks Jeremy is being framed by the relatives?? 

Colin's Statement 24th Sept 1985

During the time of my courtship of Sheila Bamber and before my marriage to her, I took a number of photographs of her.

These photographs include a number which were taken near Whitehouse Farm, Tolleshunt D'Arcy, Essex. These were of Sheila sunbathing in a field and at the time she had no clothes on at all. These photo's were processed onto slides.

At the time Sheila and I separated, she kept these slides in her possession. I have not seen the slides for some years. However, I presumed Sheila had them in her possession at her flat at No 3, Moorhead Mansions.

On Saturday I went to Sheila's flat, there are saw Jeremy Bamber, Sheila's brother, he sat in the sitting room, chatting generally. I had gone to the flat to sort out some of the property (clothes, toys) which belonged to my twin sons,

Jeremy had cleaned up the flat and had placed my sons belongings into plastic bags.

There were a number of photographs, these being about four albums of family shots, some prints of Sheila's modelling folio and a box of slides numbering approximately twenty four.

The slides had been professionally taken and were of Sheila in various states of undress, in a paddling pool, I think. I would describe these slides as soft pornography as they were quite explicit in detail. I asked Jeremy if I could take these slides and destroy them. He agreed that I could take them, which I did. Jeremy also told me that there was some more slides of a similar nature, possibly two or three boxes at his house at Head Street, Goldghanger, Essex.

Jeremy described these slides as being VERY explicit. He told me that one box was of Sheila sunbathing (previously described) and that the others were similar to the slides at Sheila's flat. I asked Jeremy if I could also have these slides and he said yes. No arrangement was made between Jeremy and I to collect these items.

That day Jeremy gave me a key to the flat to enable me to gain access during the next day to collect some of the property belonging to my twin sons.

About midday on Sunday 8th September 1985, I returned to the flat and removed various items, basically toys and books.

Whilst visiting the flat that weekend I realised that anything owned by Sheila which had any value had been removed from the premises.

On Friday 13th September 1985, I travelled by car to Cornwall for a short break and to stay with friends in that county.

Whilst on holiday, I wrote to Jeremy addressing the letter to Moorhead Mansions. I repeated my request of the photographs of Sheila.

A couple of hours after posting this letter, to Jeremy, I saw an article in The Sun newspaper dated 17th September 1985.

This article concerned the incident at Whitehouse Farm during which time, my former wife and twin sons were killed. The reporter described how he met Jeremy Bamber and that Jeremy was offering pornographic photographs of Sheila for sale. In the article, Jeremy is alleged to have said “They show everything right down to the last detail”.
This is 'exactly' how Jeremy described the slides to me when I visited him on 7th September.

I then wrote a second letter to Jeremy in which I described the newspaper report and wanted to know what he was doing. As yet, I have not received a reply from Jeremy and have had no contact with him.

Having removed the other slides from Sheila's flat, I disposed of them by putting them in the dustbin, I did in fact put the slides into a dustbin liner and handed them to a refuse collector to ensure they went into the dustcart.

It's interesting reading this. Have never read Colin's book and always had the impression that Jeremy and Colin had been quite close, am sure I have read before they were 'like brother's'. Obviously, this was not the case and it seems they were more like acquaintances than friends, it puts a different slant on things imo.

[scipio_usmc]

It's interesting reading this. Have never read Colin's book and always had the impression that Jeremy and Colin had been quite close, am sure I have read before they were 'like brother's'. Obviously, this was not the case and it seems they were more like acquaintances than friends, it puts a different slant on things imo.

People seem to think that they were close because Jeremy complained about his family to Colin. He complained to Colin because he knew Colin didn't like them either and thus he was a god person to tell. In any event he complained about his family to a wide variety of people he wasn't shy to trash them.  His co-workers telling police about such trashing didn't do him any favors his big mouth extended to more than just being too open with Sheila. 

After the murders he wanted Colin to believe Sheila did it so naturally interacted with him and tried to convince him by feeding him lies such as the claim the family was going to force her to give the kids up - which he laughed at because they forgot they would need to secure his permission but it was made up they actually simply talked about part time help for her.  Jeremy knew part time help would not convince Colin that Sheila had a motive so he exaggerated.  Apparently he figured since police didn't know Sheila he could tell them the truth about it just being part time help AND/OR he knew others would tell police it was just part time help they were planning and he figured he had better not lie because it would look suspicious.

The same people seem to think he was really close to Brett Collins as well.  I seem to have a different idea of close than most people.  I suspect Collins didn't rush back to the UK upon learning of the murders to support Jeremy because he wanted to console his friend.  I suspect he rushed because he figured Jeremy was loaded now and figured they could party hardy. It is like when people hear their friend got  a huge insurance settlement then when they are broke again the rats flee the ship.   Party friends are not true friends. Jeremy might not have had any true friends for all we know. True friendship is a two way street, who was Jeremy a great friend to?  Many people have a lot of superficial relationships and few real ones. Clearly we don't know everything and I could be wrong, Brett and Jeremy could have been gay lovers who got close emotionally for all we know but I think that is unlikely. I think Jeremy and Brett were both using eachother.   

 

   

[susan]

People seem to think that they were close because Jeremy complained about his family to Colin. He complained to Colin because he knew Colin didn't like them either and thus he was a god person to tell. In any event he complained about his family to a wide variety of people he wasn't shy to trash them.  His co-workers telling police about such trashing didn't do him any favors his big mouth extended to more than just being too open with Sheila. 

After the murders he wanted Colin to believe Sheila did it so naturally interacted with him and tried to convince him by feeding him lies such as the claim the family was going to force her to give the kids up - which he laughed at because they forgot they would need to secure his permission but it was made up they actually simply talked about part time help for her.  Jeremy knew part time help would not convince Colin that Sheila had a motive so he exaggerated.  Apparently he figured since police didn't know Sheila he could tell them the truth about it just being part time help AND/OR he knew others would tell police it was just part time help they were planning and he figured he had better not lie because it would look suspicious.

The same people seem to think he was really close to Brett Collins as well.  I seem to have a different idea of close than most people.  I suspect Collins didn't rush back to the UK upon learning of the murders to support Jeremy because he wanted to console his friend.  I suspect he rushed because he figured Jeremy was loaded now and figured they could party hardy. It is like when people hear their friend got  a huge insurance settlement then when they are broke again the rats flee the ship.   Party friends are not true friends. Jeremy might not have had any true friends for all we know. True friendship is a two way street, who was Jeremy a great friend to?  Many people have a lot of superficial relationships and few real ones. Clearly we don't know everything and I could be wrong, Brett and Jeremy could have been gay lovers who got close emotionally for all we know but I think that is unlikely. I think Jeremy and Brett were both using eachother.   

 

   

Hello Scipio yes Brett used Jeremy for the parties and expensive meals and trips abroad once he saw that was coming to an end he left and went back to NZ.  Think you are right about Jeremy he did not do close friendships just used people when he had no further use for Colin he did the dirty on him over the pictures . He did tell Colin that he would see him right when he got his inherritance

[Caroline]

It's interesting reading this. Have never read Colin's book and always had the impression that Jeremy and Colin had been quite close, am sure I have read before they were 'like brother's'. Obviously, this was not the case and it seems they were more like acquaintances than friends, it puts a different slant on things imo.

Colin's book isn't the easiest read but it is interesting to learn how he came to believe Jeremy guilty. It wasn't an overnight thing. He wasn't influenced by the relatives, it was things that Jeremy did/said that he put together - the selling of the photographs being one of them.

I suspect the notion that they were close, came from here but interestingly, Colin wasn't even aware that Jeremy had been adopted and Jeremy wasn't even sure of Colin's surname.

Another interesting point which is in one of the statements and in the book. Colin said that Sheila wasn't happy about Jeremy coming to the party on the Saturday before the murders and that it was the first time that Jeremy had been to one. I wonder if it's just coincidence that he chose that weekend to attend one of Colin's parties for the first time?

[lookout]

Colin appeared to be as concerned over the slides as he was at leaving his boys at WHF.!!

[Caroline]

Colin appeared to be as concerned over the slides as he was at leaving his boys at WHF.!!

So VERY CONCERNED then?

[Caroline]

Something else that Colin said; Nevill was usually in bed by 09:30/10:00, followed later by June. So, there were no late night dog walks etc. and if Jeremy didn't bring back the last trailer as part of his duties, I can certainly see why Nevill would have been annoyed - this may explain why he seemed in a bad mood 'as though he'd been arguing' when BW called.

[nugnug]

So VERY CONCERNED then?

why he be that concerned she was his ex.

[Caroline]

why he be that concerned she was his ex.

Nugs, you have been debating this case for a long time. It's a well known fact that Collin was concerned about the twins going to WHF that weekend  - he wasn't happy at the way June often subjected them to religion. He also said he had a bad feeling about them going that particular weekend.

One other point, someone said that Colin left immediately after dropping the twins off - this isn't true, he stayed  afew hours before driving home.

[nugnug]

he was concerned for his children yes but why would he be that concerned about his ex wifes photo sets.

[Caroline]

he was concerned for his children yes but why would he be that concerned about his ex wifes photo sets.

Well lets see; how about out of decency for the mother of his children? They were private pictures of someone he still cared for who had had problems but at the heart of it, she was his children's mother and she was dead. I'd say those are pretty good reasons for concern?

[nugnug]

   Which bit can't be derived then?
     1.) That Colin used the words "ganging up" in the context of DB stating that "we" had all been making statements to the police and that Colin thought that this was because of financial affairs. (this is all stated by Colin himself)
     2.) That DB stated that they were sure that Sheila couldn't have pulled the trigger. (again directly lifted from Colin's statement.)
     3.)  That Colin was made aware of contacts between the relatives and the press and negative stories being given by the relatives. ( Colin is informed by DB to prepare for a bombshell in the press the next day. I am sure that Colin can work out from this that DB has prior knowledge of this bombshell and therefore must have contact with the press regarding negative stories.)
     4.) That it was clear that Colin still believed Sheila responsible at this stage. (Colin talks about chatting generally with Jeremy, he obtains a set of prints as well as other belongings and arranges to collect others at a later unarranged date. He refers to the relatives statements implicating Jeremy as "ganging up" and concludes that it is because of financial matters. Funny that he doesn't suggest that it is because he murdered his two sons, which suggests to anyone with an ounce of comprehension skills that he did not suspect Jeremy at this time.)
     That is all I said in my post. So which bit  or bits do you struggle to discern yourself? and where did I put words into anyone's mouth?

and he would have no reason to make that up.

[nugnug]

Well lets see; how about out of decency for the mother of his children? They were private pictures of someone he still cared for who had had problems but at the heart of it, she was his children's mother and she was dead. I'd say those are pretty good reasons for concern?

this the mother who he thinks at the time has killed his children.

[Caroline]

this the mother who he thinks at the time has killed his children.

Who was ill - at no point does Colin EVER suggest hate for Sheila, when he thought she was responsible, he UNDERSTOOD she was suffering from an illness. Why do you imagine he shouldn't have been concerned about her brother trying to sell such pictures? If it were you, would you not think that was a vile thing to do?