Was Sheila Caffell set up by her brother Jeremy Bamber?

[Paul]

Oh, Paul, can you imagine JB tiptoing through the corn, holding up his skirt, for the good of the farm? I think that he'd reached an impasse, fed up with the whole, weird lot of them, and wanted them out of the way. He didn't do it himself, obviously,  but he found someone who would do it for cash. Never forget that the boys were cleanly executed. It just wasn't the guy who JM thought it was.

See, i'd buy that scenario any day. What I won't buy is the whole Sheila still alive when the police entered & the movement in the window stuff.

Either the person paid cash did a good job or a really really really bad one - leaving Sheila alive (oh and June because I read that too)

[shonapugs]

I think that they were Ralph's socks, taken off before he finally got into bed. And he WAS in bed at some stage, sorry, Mike, but you can see the imprint of his head on the pillow. Where he slept. And the quilt was thrown back when he had to get up. June didn't get the chance to get up before she was shot, at first. It's all there, quite clear for us all to see. A sleeping family, caught unaware.

[Wild Rose]

Oh, Paul, can you imagine JB tiptoing through the corn, holding up his skirt, for the good of the farm? I think that he'd reached an impasse, fed up with the whole, weird lot of them, and wanted them out of the way. He didn't do it himself, obviously,  but he found someone who would do it for cash. Never forget that the boys were cleanly executed. It just wasn't the guy who JM thought it was.

!

So, you're saying that the hitman with the watertight alibi (sorry I can't recall his name) simply got one of his dodgy compatriots/a friend of a friend of a friend etc to do it because he knew Jeremy had a bit of a silly gob on him, so he was a bit clever and distanced himself/put him out of the picture.

Yep, I can definitely see that as a possibility!

[sandy]

The Estate, the Court Actions and granny.

Jeremy Bamber alleged that the financial considerations meant the extended family, specifically two of the cousins whom he named, wanted to see him convicted, and may even have set him up. The cousins responded that Bamber was a psychopath, that his allegations against them over the years are part of an attempt to harass and vilify them and that the allegation that they set him up is "an absolute load of piffle.

Bamber launched several unsuccessful lawsuits to recover some of the money. In 2003, he began a High Court action to recover £1.2m from his adoptive grandmother, Mabel Speakman's, estate. He told the court he should have inherited Speakman's home at Carbonnells Farm, Wix, near Clacton, and that he was owed 17 years back rent for the property from his cousins who were living there.

Speakman cut Bamber out of her will when he was arrested, and most of the inheritance went to Pamela Boutflour, June Bamber's sister, who subsequently moved into Carbonnells Farm with her husband Robert.  In 2004, Bamber went back to the High Court to argue he had been unfairly frozen out of the profits made by the caravan site. Although at that point no longer a shareholder, he had retained shares after his conviction, but had sold them to pay legal costs in connection with the 2003 attempt to claim his grandmother's estate. The High Court ruled that he was not entitled to any profit from the caravan site because of his conviction.

[chelmsey]

...Boutflour gained as well. In fact the way by  his own admittance wasted the money anyway. Boutflour had as much to gain as Jeremy. Why did he go to all the trouble to implicate Jeremy. He had a vested interest. Yes Jeremy was gobby, which led to his downfall. Dont him make a murderer though. To my mind the family are a dodgy bunch. Can,t remember them crying to much. The money saved them from the S***. Remember there were more than five who would have enjoyed Jeremy taking the wrap. I still think that Sheila did,nt do it.

I'm unconvinced by Boutflour's claim that he wasted the inheritance. If he had done so, the family would not now still be running a holiday home business and they would not still own a farm.

+1 Keira! I'd be saying I'd wasted it all / spent it if things were looking like they were about to take a turn for the worse and there is a possibility of having to give some of it back. Relatives are more concerned than you think about what has been going on with the case in the last couple of years - the Eaton's are selling up as we speak and moving to the Isle of Mann. Their farm at Wix is on the market right now.

Vortex...........when you say the Eatons are selling up,do you actually mean Ann and Peter are leaving whf,or are you just refering to The Baltflours farm at Wix? I know that RB died last year but am surprised that DB hasnt taken over running it.

[chelmsey]

Sandy.........re:the estate

Gran Speakman cut JB out of her will BEFORE he was arrested
Pamela Boutflour IS Junes sister
The Boutflours were already running the farm at Wix (which belonged to Gran Speakman)and paid her a nominal rent to do so,long before her death.

[chochokeira]

Oh, Paul, can you imagine JB tiptoing through the corn, holding up his skirt, for the good of the farm? I think that he'd reached an impasse, fed up with the whole, weird lot of them, and wanted them out of the way. He didn't do it himself, obviously,  but he found someone who would do it for cash. Never forget that the boys were cleanly executed. It just wasn't the guy who JM thought it was.

I'm interested in the idea of a third party killer, or killers, too, shonaplugs. However, once you go down that avenue you're up against the fact that there was absolutely no evidence but JM's that JB hired the killer/s. JM's evidence would be thrown out these days as she was paid for her story by the News Of The World and is said to have entered into a contract with NOTW prior to the trial: all of which badly predjudies her evidence.

That also inevitably raises the question of why JM was paid, for the time, such a huge sum by the NOTW.  It begs the question of whether JM sexed up her evidence to get a larger payment from the NOTW too.

There are too many questions against JM's evidence.

*Apologies for using the wrong quote of yours, shonaplugs

[chochokeira]

The Estate, the Court Actions and granny.

Jeremy Bamber alleged that the financial considerations meant the extended family, specifically two of the cousins whom he named, wanted to see him convicted, and may even have set him up. The cousins responded that Bamber was a psychopath, that his allegations against them over the years are part of an attempt to harass and vilify them and that the allegation that they set him up is "an absolute load of piffle.

Bamber launched several unsuccessful lawsuits to recover some of the money. In 2003, he began a High Court action to recover £1.2m from his adoptive grandmother, Mabel Speakman's, estate. He told the court he should have inherited Speakman's home at Carbonnells Farm, Wix, near Clacton, and that he was owed 17 years back rent for the property from his cousins who were living there.

Speakman cut Bamber out of her will when he was arrested, and most of the inheritance went to Pamela Boutflour, his aunt and June Bamber's sister, who subsequently moved into Carbonnells Farm with her husband Robert.  In 2004, Bamber went back to the High Court to argue he had been unfairly frozen out of the profits made by the caravan site. Although at that point no longer a shareholder, he had retained shares after his conviction, but had sold them to pay legal costs in connection with the 2003 attempt to claim his grandmother's estate. The High Court ruled that he was not entitled to any profit from the caravan site because of his conviction.

"Bamber launched several unsuccessful lawsuits to recover some of the money."

And he paid for these numerous law suits with what exactly?

[chelmsey]

Just proves you cant take everything you read as gospel.   

[sandy]

He sold the shares that he already retained in order to fund legal costs.

[chochokeira]

Oh, Paul, can you imagine JB tiptoing through the corn, holding up his skirt, for the good of the farm? I think that he'd reached an impasse, fed up with the whole, weird lot of them, and wanted them out of the way. He didn't do it himself, obviously,  but he found someone who would do it for cash. Never forget that the boys were cleanly executed. It just wasn't the guy who JM thought it was.

!

So, you're saying that the hitman with the watertight alibi (sorry I can't recall his name) simply got one of his dodgy compatriots/a friend of a friend of a friend etc to do it because he knew Jeremy had a bit of a silly gob on him, so he was a bit clever and distanced himself/put him out of the picture.

Yep, I can definitely see that as a possibility!

And your evidence is...?

[sandy]

Bamber told police who attended the scene that Sheila was familiar with guns and that they had gone target shooting together. He said he had been at the farmhouse himself the night before and had loaded the rifle because he thought he had heard rabbits outside. He then left it on the kitchen table, fully loaded with a box of ammunition nearby.

With two youngsters in the house?  ....hardly likely or most certainly foolhardy or did he hope that Shelia might get a hold of a gun, shoot daddy and that would leave him to inherit the lot?

[chelmsey]

Does anyone here live near tolleshunt darcy? If so,does anybody know Guisnes Court in Chapel Road?

[chelmsey]

Bamber told police who attended the scene that Sheila was familiar with guns and that they had gone target shooting together. He said he had been at the farmhouse himself the night before and had loaded the rifle because he thought he had heard rabbits outside. He then left it on the kitchen table, fully loaded with a box of ammunition nearby.

With two youngsters in the house?  ....hardly likely or most certainly foolhardy.  Did he hope that Shelia might get a hold of a gun?

JB told at trial that he had never known his sister to fire a gun.

[sandy]

Bamber told police who attended the scene that Sheila was familiar with guns and that they had gone target shooting together. He said he had been at the farmhouse himself the night before and had loaded the rifle because he thought he had heard rabbits outside. He then left it on the kitchen table, fully loaded with a box of ammunition nearby.

With two youngsters in the house?  ....hardly likely or most certainly foolhardy.  Did he hope that Shelia might get a hold of a gun?

JB told at trial that he had never known his sister to fire a gun.

Well that was a downright lie since she had much experience of shooting guns.