Was Sheila Caffell set up by her brother Jeremy Bamber?

[chochokeira]

Had it rained in the week before the incident? In August, the terrain around farm tracks and fields would be hard/ sandy mud, not soft, unless there had been substantial rain. Since workers were working late that evening on the harvest, recent rain would be unlikely.

It had rained and the terrain was very soft and muddy. That's one reason the family searched for tracks in the mud - tracks which they failed to find.

Fair enough. Although why they were working on the harvest in such conditions puzzles me. It's hard to combine if there is any moisture and the grain that is harvested would cost a fortune to dry - hence farmers wait until everything is as dry as possible before harvesting.

What were they harvesting at the time? Nevill had a field of opium poppies, might that crop, if it hadn't already been harvested, rot in very wet conditions?

On Jeremy's website, he says that the farm was an arable farm. They would have been harvesting grain crops in August. They would have been working late to get the grain stored. Combining is very difficult in damp conditions - it's pretty pointless as you might as well wait for properly dry conditions.

I have no idea about any fields of poppies.

Nevill grew opium poppies under license for a pharmaceutical company.

[shonapugs]

That must have been an interesting crop. I've never seen poppies grown to such an extent. My neighbour grows little, round potatoes for Walkers crisps. Sorry, it's been a long, frustrating day.

[chochokeira]

I don't think the relatives had anywhere as good a motive as Jeremy.  Jeremy was struggling to get a couple of grand together to buy a Porsche kit car so he obviously had ideas above his station.  Maybe he got tired waiting and maybe Ralph had other ideas about the estate. 

Sheila's two boys would come of age in time and Jeremy's slice was beginning to diminish every day that passed.

Unconvincing. Jeremy's wealthy eldery grandmother was at death's door and indeed died a few months after the murders. Jeremy was due to inherit from her. Even if he was the grasping murderer you appear to believe him to have been, why would JB take the huge risk of killing his entire immediate family for money when he was about to inherit a lot of money from his grandmother?

He didn't inherit it after all did he?  Looks like gran changed her will.

She changed it before he was arrested.

While I don't doubt that you must be correct, Kaldin, because you're usually quite thorough, there's something that is inconsistent with that claim: I understand that JB did inherit from his grandmother but that he was forced to use that inheritance to fund his ongoing defence costs. That's why I asked, "why would JB put his inheritance at risk?"

His grandmother changed her will before he was arrested. There was a court case involving her estate but I've forgotten the details. He didn't win anyway.

Then perhaps JB had already inherited money from his other grandmother? If so, that demolishes the 'killed because he was desperate for money' theory.

[Kaldin]

I don't think the relatives had anywhere as good a motive as Jeremy.  Jeremy was struggling to get a couple of grand together to buy a Porsche kit car so he obviously had ideas above his station.  Maybe he got tired waiting and maybe Ralph had other ideas about the estate. 

Sheila's two boys would come of age in time and Jeremy's slice was beginning to diminish every day that passed.

Unconvincing. Jeremy's wealthy eldery grandmother was at death's door and indeed died a few months after the murders. Jeremy was due to inherit from her. Even if he was the grasping murderer you appear to believe him to have been, why would JB take the huge risk of killing his entire immediate family for money when he was about to inherit a lot of money from his grandmother?

He didn't inherit it after all did he?  Looks like gran changed her will.

She changed it before he was arrested.

While I don't doubt that you must be correct, Kaldin, because you're usually quite thorough, there's something that is inconsistent with that claim: I understand that JB did inherit from his grandmother but that he was forced to use that inheritance to fund his ongoing defence costs. That's why I asked, "why would JB put his inheritance at risk?"

His grandmother changed her will before he was arrested. There was a court case involving her estate but I've forgotten the details. He didn't win anyway.

Then perhaps JB had already inherited money from his other grandmother? If so, that demolishes the 'killed because he was desperate for money' theory.

The story is somewhere on the internet - I'll find it tomorrow, unless someone else can find it. 

[chochokeira]

That must have been an interesting crop. I've never seen poppies grown to such an extent. My neighbour grows little, round potatoes for Walkers crisps. Sorry, it's been a long, frustrating day.

Someone has to grow them. At least British growers aren't the Taliban.

[shonapugs]

That's very true. I'm not sure where you're going with that, but it made me laugh, and I'm up for a bit of hot forum until I pass out with fatigue. Bring it on, matey.......

[Paul]

And I thought we were talking about mud!

[shonapugs]

Everything is relative, Paul. August can be a late time for harvesting crops. But that makes me sound wanky.

[VORTEX]

...Boutflour gained as well. In fact the way by  his own admittance wasted the money anyway. Boutflour had as much to gain as Jeremy. Why did he go to all the trouble to implicate Jeremy. He had a vested interest. Yes Jeremy was gobby, which led to his downfall. Dont him make a murderer though. To my mind the family are a dodgy bunch. Can,t remember them crying to much. The money saved them from the S***. Remember there were more than five who would have enjoyed Jeremy taking the wrap. I still think that Sheila did,nt do it.

I'm unconvinced by Boutflour's claim that he wasted the inheritance. If he had done so, the family would not now still be running a holiday home business and they would not still own a farm.

+1 Keira! I'd be saying I'd wasted it all / spent it if things were looking like they were about to take a turn for the worse and there is a possibility of having to give some of it back. Relatives are more concerned than you think about what has been going on with the case in the last couple of years - the Eaton's are selling up as we speak and moving to the Isle of Mann. Their farm at Wix is on the market right now.

[Paul]

Everything is relative, Paul. August can be a late time for harvesting crops. But that makes me sound wanky.

Yes, didn't want to sound wanky myself. Its that JB said he was working on the harvest & had been working late evenings. Unlikely to be particularly muddy I thought. But yes, everything is relative.

[chelmsey]

The wetsuit was Robert Boutflours fantasy.Think he may have been into rubber 

There was a wetsuit somewhere along the line - the police took it.

I remember that Robert Boutflour thought Jeremy had worn it and then took it to Eastbourne - presumably to wash away the evidence in the sea. 

Yeah I know Kaldin.RB decided that JB had worn the wetsuit to carry out the murders.Dont know why JB would have to take it all the way to Eastbourne to wash it out when the river Blackwater was so close to his home.

[chochokeira]

...Boutflour gained as well. In fact the way by  his own admittance wasted the money anyway. Boutflour had as much to gain as Jeremy. Why did he go to all the trouble to implicate Jeremy. He had a vested interest. Yes Jeremy was gobby, which led to his downfall. Dont him make a murderer though. To my mind the family are a dodgy bunch. Can,t remember them crying to much. The money saved them from the S***. Remember there were more than five who would have enjoyed Jeremy taking the wrap. I still think that Sheila did,nt do it.

I'm unconvinced by Boutflour's claim that he wasted the inheritance. If he had done so, the family would not now still be running a holiday home business and they would not still own a farm.

+1 Keira! I'd be saying I'd wasted it all / spent it if things were looking like they were about to take a turn for the worse and there is a possibility of having to give some of it back. Relatives are more concerned than you think about what has been going on with the case in the last couple of years - the Eaton's are selling up as we speak and moving to the Isle of Mann. Their farm at Wix is on the market right now.

Thanks, Vortex. Well spotted re the Isle of Mann move: that's interesting.

[shonapugs]

Oh, Paul, can you imagine JB tiptoing through the corn, holding up his skirt, for the good of the farm? I think that he'd reached an impasse, fed up with the whole, weird lot of them, and wanted them out of the way. He didn't do it himself, obviously,  but he found someone who would do it for cash. Never forget that the boys were cleanly executed. It just wasn't the guy who JM thought it was.

[Wild Rose]

Can I just ask, as Sheila's feet were mentioned earlier in this thread, was there a pair of socks lying next to Sheila's body? If she'd been wearing them, she might not have blood or sugar on her feet. If the scene had been staged managed to look like a suicide, why would the socks have been placed there?

[chochokeira]

The wetsuit was Robert Boutflours fantasy.Think he may have been into rubber 

There was a wetsuit somewhere along the line - the police took it.

I remember that Robert Boutflour thought Jeremy had worn it and then took it to Eastbourne - presumably to wash away the evidence in the sea. 

Yeah I know Kaldin.RB decided that JB had worn the wetsuit to carry out the murders.Dont know why JB would have to take it all the way to Eastbourne to wash it out when the river Blackwater was so close to his home.

They'll be claiming he cycled the Maldon mud run next, in order to cover up the mud on his bike