Author Topic: Neglect and the Effect on Developing Brains of Babies/Small Children  (Read 21261 times)

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Offline lookout

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Re: Neglect and the Effect on Developing Brains of Babies/Small Children
« Reply #165 on: November 02, 2013, 12:29:PM »
N.B. Her home is like that of little Marias' parents in Bulgaria. It's absolutely awful,,and there's 9 children. A far cry from a £300.000 thatched cottage in Dorset.

Offline maggie

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Re: Neglect and the Effect on Developing Brains of Babies/Small Children
« Reply #166 on: November 02, 2013, 01:00:PM »


Hi Maggie,,apparently Natalie was initially bitter to learn that her birth mother abandoned her when she was 4 hours old. It doesn't state under what circumstances.
Aww,,bless her,,she says that she's bringing up her family so that when she reaches a certain age,,they'll love her,aww,how sad.
Natalie was born in 1979 and adopted in 1980. The Canns' who adopted her lived in Christchurch, Dorset,by the sea. She knows nothing about her adoption,which,like the Bambers',was done privately,,and so the parents weren't forthcoming with any information.She was never allowed to discuss it with her dad as it upset him too much.
Her father is horrified at the way Natalie is living,,as when he does see her,he tells her to get a job,but she has another baby instead.

Adoptive parents had a glitch in their marriage when the husband,,who worked in Berkshire,left the family home to live with another woman. Natalie was 6 at the time.
At the age of 13,Natalie had been to 4 schools with moving. At 14,,Natalie left her mother,who she didn't get on with,,and moved to live with her father. Her father had re-married,,and as a consequence,,the new step-mother didn't want Natalie either.
To cut a long story short,,Natalie then fell for a chap who'd been in prison for drug crimes,,and so began a downward spiral of Natalies' middle-class life without love or stability. Poor girl,eh.?
Yes, I know Christchurch quite well, it's not far from me. 
I really don't understand adoptive parents who boohoo when their children want to know where and who they came from. 
They just don't seen to understand that you earn the love of a child, natural or adopted, you cannot prize love out of them by ownership. I do believe a child should know they're adopted before they can understand the fact.  That way they accept the whole thing as part of their life.  Making it into a big bad secret just covers a child in guilt and shame. imo
Any adopted child does have a poor sense of worth unless they can work through it because no matter the reason for a natural mother giving up a child they see themselves as not being wanted, not good enough for their mother etc.  They need love and protection and understanding and even with all that it sometimes just isn't enough and specialised counselling is needed.
I would imagine these parents really wanted their daughter because adoption is never something you do for fun, they just had poor emotional intelligence and would have behaved the same with any child natural or not this may have been exacerbated by Natalie's inherited genes which caused her to behave in a manner unacceptable to the parents expectations.  In an adoptive relationship between parents and child, unconditional love is even more important imo.

Offline tyler

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Re: Neglect and the Effect on Developing Brains of Babies/Small Children
« Reply #167 on: November 03, 2013, 12:50:AM »
June's depression appears to have occurred in 1959 when Sheila would have been 2 years of age. There is no evidence at all that June neglected Sheila as a baby. From what we know of June's temperament,I imagine that she was over cautious and over indulgent with baby Sheila rather than neglectful?

Offline susan

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Re: Neglect and the Effect on Developing Brains of Babies/Small Children
« Reply #168 on: November 03, 2013, 07:09:AM »
Morning tyler

I agree June would have over indudged Sheila and Jeremy as I suspect she had an over protective nature.  I have never considered June's illness had anything to do with the illness Sheila developed.  Susanxx

Offline maggie

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Re: Neglect and the Effect on Developing Brains of Babies/Small Children
« Reply #169 on: November 03, 2013, 08:36:AM »
June's depression appears to have occurred in 1959 when Sheila would have been 2 years of age. There is no evidence at all that June neglected Sheila as a baby. From what we know of June's temperament,I imagine that she was over cautious and over indulgent with baby Sheila rather than neglectful?
hi tyler, I do agree, there is no evidence of neglect. The phrase written by Dr Fergusen that June was depressed after adopting Sheila does not necessarily imply that the adoption of Sheila had anything to do with her depression imo although it is true it could be interpreted diferently.

Offline lookout

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Re: Neglect and the Effect on Developing Brains of Babies/Small Children
« Reply #170 on: November 03, 2013, 09:28:AM »
How people bring up their children is down to them,and no family should be judged or dictated to on what is the right or wrong way of raising a family.
Where two+children are brought up in the same household,in exactly the same way,,and one child goes " off the rails ",then the fault doesn't lie with the parents,,,but the child itself.

Offline tyler

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Re: Neglect and the Effect on Developing Brains of Babies/Small Children
« Reply #171 on: November 03, 2013, 10:13:AM »
Dr F did say that June's religious mania did exacerbate Sheila's illness (or words to that effect) but that he didn't believe that she was the cause of it. Sheila suffered with depression before developing schizophrenia and I once read somewhere that SC's natural mother was prone to depression too. Can depression be a genetic illness? I know it can lead on to schizophrenia. So in effect,it appears that Sheila may have already had mental illness genetically and June's mental illness caused this to develop into schizophrenia. Is that a fair conclusion to come to?

Offline Patti

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Re: Neglect and the Effect on Developing Brains of Babies/Small Children
« Reply #172 on: November 03, 2013, 10:21:AM »
I think its a delicate subject in all fairness. Not everyone would agree that neglect would have an effect on a child's development. 

I was reading about a child that had been locked up in a cupboard for most of her life.  I wont go into details, because its horrific.  When this child was 16 she had the ability of 9 year old.  She lacked stimulation, love and care and what happened to her will be with her for the rest of her life.

What I am trying to say is there is a big difference between this sort of neglect, than that which has been suggested of Sheila. 

If we look at any family in general the mother and father at some stage will suffer some sort of depression, anxiety or stress in their lives. We can't go labelling them as unfit parents.  What we can do is help them and in June's case she had a blip and went on to recover. 

I honestly don't think either June or Neville neglected their children in any way.  No parents are that perfect we are not trained to become parents and we all treat our children in different ways.  On saying that I do feel that both Sheila and Jeremy were kept away from other children of their age and were deprived of birthday parties like the majority of children expect at their age.  It must have been a very lonely existence fro them on the farm...Did this effect them? I suspect it did eventually because they both left home at an early age and they both enjoyed the life outside of the farm, to me they both found a new world to play in....But, their parents continued their support.   :) :) :) :)

Offline maggie

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Re: Neglect and the Effect on Developing Brains of Babies/Small Children
« Reply #173 on: November 03, 2013, 10:31:AM »
Dr F did say that June's religious mania did exacerbate Sheila's illness (or words to that effect) but that he didn't believe that she was the cause of it. Sheila suffered with depression before developing schizophrenia and I once read somewhere that SC's natural mother was prone to depression too. Can depression be a genetic illness? I know it can lead on to schizophrenia. So in effect,it appears that Sheila may have already had mental illness genetically and June's mental illness caused this to develop into schizophrenia. Is that a fair conclusion to come to?
It may be the conclusion tyler, it is true depression can be genetic, some people's uptake of seratonin can be impaired causing low mood. PSchizophrenia is also very often genetic, its hard to know if its the fact some are more prone to it genetically and other factors come into the equation to develop it or whether it would develop anyway. Many suffersvof PS tend to be ultra sensitive however many also have gentle and caring upbringings. It does seem cannabis exacerbates psychosis in some people. From all Ive read about Sheila's adolescent behaviour, as a layman, I would guess she was already developing early symptoms. Her chaotic, irresponsible behaviour combined with high sensitivity and an inability to hold down a job and function on a day to day level are signs. I also suggest that June may have been strong minded, maybe lacking in insight to her developing illness but hatred of a close relative, often the mother is common in psychosis. Think we just need to keep an open mind about June and Sheila's relationship. We do know that June gave much practical care and support to Sheila when she lived in London. :-\.

Offline lookout

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Re: Neglect and the Effect on Developing Brains of Babies/Small Children
« Reply #174 on: November 03, 2013, 10:45:AM »
Dr F did say that June's religious mania did exacerbate Sheila's illness (or words to that effect) but that he didn't believe that she was the cause of it. Sheila suffered with depression before developing schizophrenia and I once read somewhere that SC's natural mother was prone to depression too. Can depression be a genetic illness? I know it can lead on to schizophrenia. So in effect,it appears that Sheila may have already had mental illness genetically and June's mental illness caused this to develop into schizophrenia. Is that a fair conclusion to come to?




Tyler I would say that depression was/is genetic and those predisposed to the illness are more likely to suffer than those who are not genetically linked. I think everyone gets a bout of depression at sometime in their lives,,and those who aren't genetically linked to the illness will usually recover,,as opposed to those whose lives are blighted by it through no fault of their own.

Offline Patti

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Re: Neglect and the Effect on Developing Brains of Babies/Small Children
« Reply #175 on: November 03, 2013, 10:49:AM »



Tyler I would say that depression was/is genetic and those predisposed to the illness are more likely to suffer than those who are not genetically linked. I think everyone gets a bout of depression at sometime in their lives,,and those who aren't genetically linked to the illness will usually recover,,as opposed to those whose lives are blighted by it through no fault of their own.

Hi Lookout :)

I don't think its entirely genetic.  Most depression is caused by life experiences, I would have thought???  :) :) :) :)

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Neglect and the Effect on Developing Brains of Babies/Small Children
« Reply #176 on: November 03, 2013, 10:52:AM »
I think its a delicate subject in all fairness. Not everyone would agree that neglect would have an effect on a child's development. 

I was reading about a child that had been locked up in a cupboard for most of her life.  I wont go into details, because its horrific.  When this child was 16 she had the ability of 9 year old.  She lacked stimulation, love and care and what happened to her will be with her for the rest of her life.

What I am trying to say is there is a big difference between this sort of neglect, than that which has been suggested of Sheila. 

If we look at any family in general the mother and father at some stage will suffer some sort of depression, anxiety or stress in their lives. We can't go labelling them as unfit parents.  What we can do is help them and in June's case she had a blip and went on to recover. 

I honestly don't think either June or Neville neglected their children in any way.  No parents are that perfect we are not trained to become parents and we all treat our children in different ways.  On saying that I do feel that both Sheila and Jeremy were kept away from other children of their age and were deprived of birthday parties like the majority of children expect at their age.  It must have been a very lonely existence fro them on the farm...Did this effect them? I suspect it did eventually because they both left home at an early age and they both enjoyed the life outside of the farm, to me they both found a new world to play in....But, their parents continued their support.   :) :) :) :)
I agree with your last paragraph Patti;there seemed to be no real bonding between parents and the children with the latter leading a curious mix of dissipation away from the family and asceticism when under June's temporary influence,all under the backdrop of that bleak Essex landscape.The long evening telephone calls from Maida Vale were no substitute for eye contact,and once Jeremy broke free from the shackles of June's disapproval the feeling of power went to his head with tragic results.

Offline Jane

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Re: Neglect and the Effect on Developing Brains of Babies/Small Children
« Reply #177 on: November 03, 2013, 10:59:AM »
Hi Lookout :)

I don't think its entirely genetic.  Most depression is caused by life experiences, I would have thought???  :) :) :) :)


Patti, there is a difference between clinical depression and depression bought about by life circumstances. It's widely believed that clinical depression is genetic, as is addictive personality disorder, but as this covers ALL areas, it's not always recoginzed as being the same thing.

Offline tyler

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Re: Neglect and the Effect on Developing Brains of Babies/Small Children
« Reply #178 on: November 03, 2013, 11:05:AM »
Thanks for that Maggie/Lookout. I have googled and it is true that depression can be hereditary. I have been on seroxat for 14 years but initially was put on them for violent mood swings due to a hormonal inbalance. I went on to suffer with depression (and sadly still do) and one of my friends believes the medication has caused this. Seroxat has been known to cause suicidal thoughts etc. However,I believe I have it due to trauma in my past and so does my doctor but I keep refusing the counselling. Sorry,am wittering on. Anyway,there is nobody else in my family that suffers with depression although I do believe my (estranged) mother has a personality disorder. I don't know if there is a link.

Offline maggie

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Re: Neglect and the Effect on Developing Brains of Babies/Small Children
« Reply #179 on: November 03, 2013, 11:14:AM »
Thanks for that Maggie/Lookout. I have googled and it is true that depression can be hereditary. I have been on seroxat for 14 years but initially was put on them for violent mood swings due to a hormonal inbalance. I went on to suffer with depression (and sadly still do) and one of my friends believes the medication has caused this. Seroxat has been known to cause suicidal thoughts etc. However,I believe I have it due to trauma in my past and so does my doctor but I keep refusing the counselling. Sorry,am wittering on. Anyway,there is nobody else in my family that suffers with depression although I do believe my (estranged) mother has a personality disorder. I don't know if there is a link.
Hi tyler, thing is you may have been unlucky enough to have inherited it from way back or it may have been caused by life time events such as a  mother with a personality disorder?  Does the Seroxat  help you? I guess it's difficult to know but surely you shouldn't still be suffering from depression.  It is a difficult illness to deal with tyler, have you tried taking Vitamin D? This helps with mood and absorption of serotonin...... just a suggestion as some of us don't process our D vits as well as others and it's important for mood stability. x