No evidence Sheila was photo'd until after rifle was photograped at window (23).

[Patti]

Well that's clearly fantastical, the negatives sequence will clearly show the order photographs were taken in, I strongly suspect that they will correlate to the order described by PC Bird.

I suspect that the photograph on this forum labelled 23 was taken at positions L-M on the schedule below, after the rifle had been removed, with the photographs showing the rifle on top of Sheila being taken prior to this, at position B on the schedule below.

There isn't even an argument to be had here, the negatives will categorically indicate the sequence.

When Bird was examined in court he was asked by the CPS and the defence when he took court album number 23. The reply was after I had taken photo's of the main bedroom, I continued on the upper and, top set of stairs that is when 23 was taken.  So it was in C. He continued towards the twins room, bathroom, back staircase, toilet, bedroom next to that, front bedroom (Sheila's room) down stairs. I was then called back up to the main bedroom, where I took more photo's.

It shows the rifle had been taken from Sheila. Cook says he was the one that put it at the window and it was about 11:00 ish.  So Bird spent an hour just over taking photo's in the main bedroom. What photo's he took on his 2nd visit...I don't know, but it does make one think that the rifle had been replaced back on her body, if there is another photo's of her...If there is one higher than court index number 38 then the rifle had been placed back onto her body.....

Hello all. 

[Bridget]

Bridget, did you read the extracts from Cooks trial evidence, where Cook says he sent Bird off to photograph the rest of the house?

Relevant pages below:

Yes, that seems entirely consistent with what I'm trying to say.

[Bridget]

Sorry Patti, I missed you there - hello!

[mike tesko]

Bridget, did you read the extracts from Cooks trial evidence, where Cook says he sent Bird off to photograph the rest of the house?

Relevant pages below:

Cook lied, he PC Bird and others could not have taken photo's 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31 and 32, before 23 - there is no evidence in the form of any photographic schedule to support that which Cook and Bird have spoken about. The records show that photo's 26 to 32 were taken after 23, not before...

[-Harters-]

Yes, that seems entirely consistent with what I'm trying to say.

But also consistent with it being taken on the second visit, as is Birds court evidence, he just says after the main bedroom, not after the first visit to the main bedroom.

Okay, I still  find it difficult to believe that he wouldn't have seen the rifle being moved, he must really have been engrossed.

[Bridget]

But also consistent with it being taken on the second visit, as is Birds court evidence, he just says after the main bedroom, not after the first visit to the main bedroom.

Okay, I still  find it difficult to believe that he wouldn't have seen the rifle being moved, he must really have been engrossed.

I can see I'm going to have to go back and read it again...

[Patti]

The lkast photo taken in the bedroom, before he went onto the landing was number 37.

Another thing here that bothers me. Is that cook said he asked Bird to take photo's of SC's wrist having being moved.  He took 4 photo's inbetween that.  37,42,22,and 26.

It's confusing......but 27 was taken first then the numbers above then 32.   

[Patti]

I can see I'm going to have to go back and read it again...

If you read before that Hartley...He was asked what photo's he took first ..Kitchen and Laundry room. Then the main bedroom when asked when he took 23 he told them they were took after the main bedroom.  He was being asked in which order and he continues to tell you....to me is was C....

[mike tesko]

Cook lied, he PC Bird and others could not have taken photo's 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31 and 32, before 23 - there is no evidence in the form of any photographic schedule to support that which Cook and Bird have spoken about. The records show that photo's 26 to 32 were taken after 23, not before...

If the schedules are wrong, why did PC Bird produce such a false schedule? Also, why have the contents of the Stokenchurch schedule been falsified as well? It is obvious to me that the details contained in these schedules is entirely accurate, and that the testimony of Cook and Bird does not fit the facts regarding the sequence which photographs, 23, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31 and 32 were taken...

So...
 
This brings us on to the technical matter of the photographic negative strips, some of which have been cut up, with some negatives missing altogether, some strips chopped up so that certain images in two separate strips could be presented as individual negative strips from only one strip...

Lets get the facts right...

The "SENIOR INVESTIGATING OFFICERS ALBUM" contained 581 photographs, yet Essex police only released 402, or there abouts, imagine that over 179 missing or unaccounted for negatives? Most of the strips of disclosed negatives in tact and undisturbed, but the crucial negative strips which relate to the era when photographs were taken of Sheila in the bedroom,  have been cut or as the case may be? From what I have been told there as many as seven or eight photographs that were taken of Sheila in the bedroom are missing...

Police have not gone to all this teouble of tampering with the photographic evidence for nothing, there has to be a reason for all these underhand tactics to have been adopted. ..

[Bridget]

But also consistent with it being taken on the second visit, as is Birds court evidence, he just says after the main bedroom, not after the first visit to the main bedroom.

Okay, I still  find it difficult to believe that he wouldn't have seen the rifle being moved, he must really have been engrossed.

What he says is:

I had finished taking the photographs of the main bedroom and I had come out and I had photographed the top landing and I stood in the middle of the upper set of stairs and took that photograph up there.

If he took photo 23 after M, N would be 'landing' again. I agree with Patti, photo 23 was taken at C. Reading it again they seem to be referring to only one set of pictures of Sheila (the ones that follow 27) and so I reckon the 2nd visit to the main bedroom was probably to take pics of blood stains or cartridges in situ.

[-Harters-]

If you read before that Hartley...He was asked what photo's he took first ..Kitchen and Laundry room. Then the main bedroom when asked when he took 23 he told them they were took after the main bedroom.  He was being asked in which order and he continues to tell you....to me is was C....

Nah, he doesn't, they are not continuous, he says he took 23 after the main bedroom and repears this later on, what he doesn't do is say whether it was his first visit to the bedroom or second. What he does do is describe what he does immediately after the first visit to the bedroom.

Anyway, it doesn't matter, this isn't a quiz with scores awarded at the end, I'm quite happy with it being immediately after the first visit, but if it was then I can't understand why he didn't see the rifle being moved, unless as Bridget has suggested, it was at the precise instant of Bird turning his back and exiting the room.

It just makes more sense to me for it to have been after his second visit, as I've already said, I may well be wrong.

[Patti]

Nah, he doesn't, they are not continuous, he says he took 23 after the main bedroom and repears this later on, what he doesn't do is say whether it was his first visit to the bedroom or second. What he does do is describe what he does immediately after the first visit to the bedroom.

Anyway, it doesn't matter, this isn't a quiz with scores awarded at the end, I'm quite happy with it being immediately after the first visit, but if it was then I can't understand why he didn't see the rifle being moved, unless as Bridget has suggested, it was at the precise instant of Bird turning his back and exiting the room.

It just makes more sense to me for it to have been after his second visit, as I've already said, I may well be wrong.

I thought he said the main bedroom was after the kitchen then the landing where 23 was taken...You love making me work...I will re check it...

[-Harters-]

What he says is:

I had finished taking the photographs of the main bedroom and I had come out and I had photographed the top landing and I stood in the middle of the upper set of stairs and took that photograph up there.

If he took photo 23 after M, N would be 'landing' again. I agree with Patti, photo 23 was taken at C. Reading it again they seem to be referring to only one set of pictures of Sheila (the ones that follow 27) and so I reckon the 2nd visit to the main bedroom was probably to take pics of blood stains or cartridges in situ.

Yes, you are probably right. 

[Bridget]

Nah, he doesn't, they are not continuous, he says he took 23 after the main bedroom and repears this later on, what he doesn't do is say whether it was his first visit to the bedroom or second. What he does do is describe what he does immediately after the first visit to the bedroom.

Anyway, it doesn't matter, this isn't a quiz with scores awarded at the end, I'm quite happy with it being immediately after the first visit, but if it was then I can't understand why he didn't see the rifle being moved, unless as Bridget has suggested, it was at the precise instant of Bird turning his back and exiting the room.
It just makes more sense to me for it to have been after his second visit, as I've already said, I may well be wrong.

It doesn't have to be at that precise instant, after he left the main bedroom the first time he took two other photos on the landing before he took photo 23.

[-Harters-]

Yes, you are probably right. 

When were the bodies removed?