No evidence Sheila was photo'd until after rifle was photograped at window (23).

[mike tesko]

Well that's clearly fantastical, the negatives sequence will clearly show the order photographs were taken in, I strongly suspect that they will correlate to the order described by PC Bird.

I suspect that the photograph on this forum labelled 23 was taken at positions L-M on the schedule below, after the rifle had been removed, with the photographs showing the rifle on top of Sheila being taken prior to this, at position B on the schedule below.

There isn't even an argument to be had here, the negatives will categorically indicate the sequence.

This signed schedule will be one of the key exhibits when PC Bird, DI Cook and the other conspirators stand trial - its a forgery...

[-Harters-]

To be fair, from Bird's evidence it seems more likely that 23 was taken at C, with photos 27 and 32 having been taken at B. Patti has quite rightly asked what photos were taken at L, and that is a good question I think. What seems clear though, is that the photos taken at L were not used in 50 photos in the green court album. Perhaps they were photos of cartridges or something.

Not that it matters, but I disagree for the following reasons:

1. According to DC Bird he commenced taking photographs at 10am.
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1037.0;attach=12011;image

2. According to A/PS Woodcock the rifle was removed from Sheila at 11:10am.
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=609.0;attach=12498;image

3. According to DI Cook, he instructed DC Bird to take photographs of Sheila with the rifle, then continue to photograph the rest of the house. Photograph 23 showing the gun that was removed from Sheila was then taken after the original photographs.
 http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=185.0;attach=12548;image
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=185.0;attach=12549;image


Therefore, I strongly suspect that photograph 23 was taken at position L and not at position C on DC Birds schedule.

[mike tesko]

Photo 23 was taken to show the rifle in the bedroom leaning up against the bedroom window, exactly how and where WPC Julia Jeapes had reported she had seen it some 15 minutes or so before the raid team went to enter the farmhouse. Photo 23 was / is a view of the rifle from inside the premises,  of what WPC Jeapes had seen from outside, undisturbed as it  were, until along  came Cook to remove it, and he placed it on Sheila's body then got PC Bird to take pictures 27 to 32...

[Bridget]

Not that it matters, but I disagree for the following reasons:

1. According to DC Bird he commenced taking photographs at 10am.
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1037.0;attach=12011;image

2. According to A/PS Woodcock the rifle was removed from Sheila at 11:10am.
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=609.0;attach=12498;image

3. According to DI Cook, he instructed DC Bird to take photographs of Sheila with the rifle, then continue to photograph the rest of the house. Photograph 23 showing the gun that was removed from Sheila was then taken after the original photographs.
 http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=185.0;attach=12548;image
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=185.0;attach=12549;image


Therefore, I strongly suspect that photograph 23 was taken at position L and not at position C on DC Birds schedule.

Sorry H, I'm posting from my phone and so haven't read the links, but Bird's evidence was that photo 23 was 3 photos after he finished in the main bedroom, session 'B', he can't have taken photos in places C-K in between.

[-Harters-]

Sorry H, I'm posting from my phone and so haven't read the links, but Bird's evidence was that photo 23 was 3 photos after he finished in the main bedroom, session 'B', he can't have taken photos in places C-K in between.

Okay, I'm not sure I've seen that, where is it?

[Bridget]

Okay, I'm not sure I've seen that, where is it?

I hope this works, I'm not sure how to do it on my phone..

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,3005.msg111319.html#msg111319

[-Harters-]

I hope this works, I'm not sure how to do it on my phone..

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,3005.msg111319.html#msg111319

Thanks Bridget.

Something isn't making sense to me, how can he photograph the rifle on Sheila, be present when they moved Sheilas arm and photograph the blood stain on her night dress, then walk out of the room and take a photograph from the stairs which shows the rifle leaning against the window frame, yet not be present when the rifle is removed?

It makes perfect sense if it is three photographs after going to the main bedroom for the second time, but not the first, unless I'm interpreting it incorrectly? 

[mike tesko]

Thanks Bridget.

Something isn't making sense to me, how can he photograph the rifle on Sheila, be present when they moved Sheilas arm and photograph the blood stain on her night dress, then walk out of the room and take a photograph from the stairs which shows the rifle leaning against the window frame, yet not be present when the rifle is removed?

It makes perfect sense if it is three photographs after going to the main bedroom for the second time, but not the first, unless I'm interpreting it incorrectly? 

Correct about a visit to main bedroom before 23, but this was when body of Sheila was on bed, without rifle on body, because rifle was still leaning against bedroom window where it had been continously ever since and from when WPC Jeapes Spotted it there before raid team went to get in house. Photos's 27 to 32 were taken after 23...

[mike tesko]

Cook did not take rifle off Sheila's body and place it against the bedroom window before PC Bird took 23, Cook took rifle from window After 23 and put it on Sheila's body, then PC Bird took photo's 27 to 32...

[Bridget]

Thanks Bridget.

Something isn't making sense to me, how can he photograph the rifle on Sheila, be present when they moved Sheilas arm and photograph the blood stain on her night dress, then walk out of the room and take a photograph from the stairs which shows the rifle leaning against the window frame, yet not be present when the rifle is removed?

It makes perfect sense if it is three photographs after going to the main bedroom for the second time, but not the first, unless I'm interpreting it incorrectly? 

I assume he took the first set of photos, walked out of the room (at which point the gun was moved to the window), took another couple of photos then took photo 23. Can you see a problem with that?

[-Harters-]

I assume he took the first set of photos, walked out of the room (at which point the gun was moved to the window), took another couple of photos then took photo 23. Can you see a problem with that?

I suppose not, but would he not then have seen the rifle being moved or placed against the window, or wouldn't he have at least questioned why the rifle suddenly appeared somewhere it previously wasn't.

I could well be wrong, but it just doesn't sit right with me unless it was second visit to the bedroom that 23 was taken.

[Bridget]

I suppose not, but would he not then have seen the rifle being moved or placed against the window, or wouldn't he have at least questioned why the rifle suddenly appeared somewhere it previously wasn't.

I could well be wrong, but it just doesn't sit right with me unless it was second visit to the bedroom that 23 was taken.

If he had already left the room when it was moved he wouldn't have seen them move it, and I suppose when he turned around and took the photo (23) he may not have noticed it there, he would have been looking through a view finder in 1985 wouldn't he?

[mike tesko]

If he had already left the room when it was moved he wouldn't have seen them move it, and I suppose when he turned around and took the photo (23) he may not have noticed it there, he would have been looking through a view finder in 1985 wouldn't he?

Problem with this theory is that rifle was always at bedroom window ever since WPC Jeapes spotted it there before raid team entered house...

Rifle had been leaning against that same window unmoved until after 23 was taken...

[-Harters-]

If he had already left the room when it was moved he wouldn't have seen them move it, and I suppose when he turned around and took the photo (23) he may not have noticed it there, he would have been looking through a view finder in 1985 wouldn't he?

I'm not totally convinced, but you could well be right.

[-Harters-]

I'm not totally convinced, but you could well be right.

Bridget, did you read the extracts from Cooks trial evidence, where Cook says he sent Bird off to photograph the rest of the house?

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