Book Reviews - Murders/Suicide at WHF

[Patti]

I do patti in regards to sheila , however june had a lot to do with that,and when june passed her worship for god to the boys this seems to when the trouble started , with colin i think also today yes he does believe , colin did seek help for a seance to contact sheila did he not ? but with colin i feel he had little control when the boys were there , those drawings the boys did speak for themselves.

Mertol I was amazed at the drawing the boys had done...The sun crying on WHF and then being sick on it. Also the one they said which was Grannie Bamber.

I thought Colin's went a bit weird towards the end of the book and did not complete the so called journey he was on...or gain any answers.  In parts it was difficult not to hold back the tears, for he had lost his two lovely children.  I honestly Colin could be persuaded of JB being NOT GUILTY...he appears to be so gullible.

I love the smilies.....I'm a smiley person

[Nuala]

I think also colin had little regard for june ,  patti has mentioned a page or two from the book  about them sunbathing nude yet when they got back to the house nevill saw the funny side of it, is it possible colin had had enough of june rather than sheila ?

Colin's letter to Nevill asking him to stop June doing to the twins what she did to Sheila makes it clear that Colin blamed June, June's crazy, obsessive religious beliefs and her obsession with the devil for Sheila's mental illness.

[mertol22]

Mertol, I suspect, in the case where there are two children and the mother exerts control over one, the other gets let off the hook, yet rather than seeing it as a good thing, it often results in the child feeling ignored and uncared for.

Thats just it April while reading the book i was also hoping to read more about jeremy it became clear there was little, i dont think jeremy was interested in religion and this may explain why june never could force something on him he did not care for, thats not the fault of jeremy, sheila on the other hand did believe and june ,lets be honest seized that to the full.

[Jane]

Aww, sorry to hear that april, I hope I haven't upset you. I just get the feeling that is the reason Sheila and Jeremy left home in their early teens. Jeremy left home at 16 and only lived at WHF for 3 months since he was 16...I'm not sure what age Sheila left home, but she was living with Colin from being 17...

april I would love to ask you a few questions, but I wouldn't want to offend you...

 I alway reckon that if you don't ask the queation, you'll never know what the answer might have been so Patti, whatever you would like to ask, please feel free, and please be assured that in no way have you upset me.

[bloggs and son]

The bible in parts is obsessed with sex. Thou shalt not do this,that and the other.
The family,particularly June,was indoctrinated by various chapters in the bible which speak of differing forms of sex,,to which June had adhered to,and was passing this,,her way,,,on to the rest of the family.
I often wonder at June herself not having borne children,,whether the reason was a medical one,,or whether she'd  treated it as a sin. It was a dirty word in her mind and became an obsession.
Sheila was rebelling against June's wishes. Hence the abortions,miscarriage/s and finally the twins,who by this time,poor Sheila wasn't in any fit state to appreciate that she had something of her own to love and be loved by.
What a very sad ending for the poor " tortured " woman who was driven to despair.

I'm not quite sure that the Bible is obsessed with sex in parts? They in those days when Israel came out of Egypt lead by Moses were themselves, as todays society is obsessed with sex and that is what Moses was addressing in those parts in order control man's obsession. The Israelites were to be entirely different from the nations around them and that was how those nations carried on. You can see this also if these sex obsessions were not controlled that society soon fell again and again into these obsessions. One just has to look at the Roman Empire to illustrate this.
I shouldn't think that June was any more a religious fanatic than quite a few other church goers. In fact there was a time when those who didn't conform to Christian values were seen as the fanatics. Fanaticism is always that which goes against what is considered the norm at the time. I think perhaps it might be a bit unfair to call June a religious fanatic just because she saw Colin as a threat to the daughter she brought up and of course Colin would see her praying with Sheila's boys every night as fanatical. Because that was something he didn't agree with and saw it as her ramming religion down their throats rather than him ramming his ideas down their throats. In fact I've met atheists who are just as fanatical as society counts Christians to be and just can't see the fact that they too could be charged with ramming their own form of atheism down their children's throats.

[Patti]

Colin's letter to Nevill asking him to stop June doing to the twins what she did to Sheila makes it clear that Colin blamed June, June's crazy, obsessive religious beliefs and her obsession with the devil for Sheila's mental illness.

Hi Keira

Apparently it wasn't just a bedtime thing either.....

[Patti]

I alway reckon that if you don't ask the queation, you'll never know what the answer might have been so Patti, whatever you would like to ask, please feel free, and please be assured that in no way have you upset me.

Hi april.....I see you have similar circumstances when you were growing up...What are your feeling towards your parents now? Sorry for asking

[Bridget]

I'm not quite sure that the Bible is obsessed with sex in parts? They in those days when Israel came out of Egypt lead by Moses were themselves, as todays society is obsessed with sex and that is what Moses was addressing in those parts in order control man's obsession. The Israelites were to be entirely different from the nations around them and that was how those nations carried on. You can see this also if these sex obsessions were not controlled that society soon fell again and again into these obsessions. One just has to look at the Roman Empire to illustrate this.
I shouldn't think that June was any more a religious fanatic than quite a few other church goers. In fact there was a time when those who didn't conform to Christian values were seen as the fanatics. Fanaticism is always that which goes against what is considered the norm at the time. I think perhaps it might be a bit unfair to call June a religious fanatic just because she saw Colin as a threat to the daughter she brought up and of course Colin would see her praying with Sheila's boys every night as fanatical. Because that was something he didn't agree with and saw it as her ramming religion down their throats rather than him ramming his ideas down their throats. In fact I've met atheists who are just as fanatical as society counts Christians to be and just can't see the fact that they too could be charged with ramming their own form of atheism down their children's throats.

Very eloquently put Grahame, have you studied theology?

[mertol22]

Mertol I was amazed at the drawing the boys had done...The sun crying on WHF and then being sick on it. Also the one they said which was Grannie Bamber.

I thought Colin's went a bit weird towards the end of the book and did not complete the so called journey he was on...or gain any answers.  In parts it was difficult not to hold back the tears, for he had lost his two lovely children.  I honestly Colin could be persuaded of JB being NOT GUILTY...he appears to be so gullible.

I love the smilies.....I'm a smiley person

There is a moment in colins book when he is visiting the boys grave in the snow walking down the hill he laughs out because someone built a snowman next to them he later found out who it was , i think this helped him to go on, going on what colin says he has not seen jeremy since 1986  so you have 2 possible answers , he never will , should jeremy be cleared could colin find the will and meet him i think he could.

[Nuala]

I wouldn't mind betting that part of the reason bringing up her boys felt alien to her was because SHE wasn't doing the bringing up. June was. By this, and I drawing from personal experience, she was using the same method, and saying the same words as June had with her BEFORE she capable of conscious memory. I did exactly the same thing and it was a very confusing time. I had no idea why I was saying such mean and spiteful things. The words that came out of my mouth didn't feel as is they were mine. THEY WEREN'T. They were the words my mother had used to me.

So, how might June have experienced motherhood? I imagine she was terrified of the small creature that she found herself responsible for. I imagine she thought that if she was not a "perfect" mother, she was a failure and in order to be "perfect" she had to maintain absolute control of Sheila's every thought , word and deed. We know about June's obsession with sex. At what stage did she start to impress this on Sheila? One of my earliest memories is of being put to bed on a very cold night  and wanting to tuck my hands under the covers. My mother removed them and placed them on the eiderdown, so I put them back. She pulled out my hands and smacked them, tucked the covers in so tightly that I couldn't move and dared me, under threat, to do it again. Many years latter, I learned that this method was employed to prevent children touching their genitals!!!! Some small boys had their legs tied!!!! I feel convinced that most of the voices she heard belonged to June, in her many roles as the mother she loved, the God who told her she was a sex crazed harlot, unworthy of love and unlovable, and the Devil to told her to do those things, that as his child, she was born to do. Small wonder she was confused.

What an insightful post, April.  Although Sheila's voices were the product of the schizophrenic imbalances in her brain, research, especially studies of schizophrenic quads, has shown that the severity of the symptoms of schizophrenia, such as hearing voices, is conditioned by the nature of the schizophrenic's upbringing.

THe research suggests that a stable upbringing can minimise the symptoms of schizophrenia, whereas a dysfunctional upbringing can exacerbate the symptoms.

[mertol22]

Sheilas upbringing looks to have played a part of her condition, my favourite late actor Klaus Kinski was even diagnosed a schizophrenic by the few klaus trusted film director Werner Herzog, kinski was abused by his father , he said the best thing in my life was my father dead.

[Patti]

I think sex is a lovely thing to have. I think it is more open in society today and, talked about more. To hide or to preach that sex should be forbidden, must have an effect on today's modern child.

Human beings have had sex since the beginning of time....Grahme mentioned the Roman Empire. Bothers married sisters and all the family had sex...with each other, it was deemed to be a normal way of life.

It's modern society that we live in today that makes the scene of incest deplorable and it is my eyes. But, had I lived in the times of the Roma Empire, my thoughts might be very different.

[bloggs and son]

Very eloquently put Grahame, have you studied theology?

Yes that is counted among my sins.

[Patti]

Quote from april:  One of my earliest memories is of being put to bed on a very cold night  and wanting to tuck my hands under the covers. My mother removed them and placed them on the eiderdown, so I put them back. She pulled out my hands and smacked them, tucked the covers in so tightly that I couldn't move and dared me, under threat, to do it again.

Bless...I want to give you a big hug.  :'(

Take care speak later xxx

[mertol22]

June made the mistake , to worship god is fine but that must be free of choice ,
a church is a place of worship not at the side of the bed.