Author Topic: The lockable from outside window. A time for closure ?  (Read 26015 times)

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Offline Steve_uk

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Re: The lockable from outside window. A time for closure ?
« Reply #300 on: July 05, 2015, 07:13:PM »
No communication ? It was Gresham's, not Australia.

Jeremy said he was a mummies boy, pre Gresham's. So I am sure he was visited a lot. Or they could have kept in contact on the telephone. There are also lots of school holidays where he could return to WHF.
Wilkes doesn't mention any parental visit for the whole eight years. Claire Powell talks of June turning up formally in tweeds to see Sheila at Moira House when many other mothers were casually dressed. If you fail to understand the nascent alienation from the family which Jeremy experienced you will never understand how he could detach himself from his parents so readily that it gave grounds in his mind for the execution of them all.

Offline maggie

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Re: The lockable from outside window. A time for closure ?
« Reply #301 on: July 05, 2015, 07:13:PM »
I agree Steve, even if they kept in touch regularly, it seems they were unable to communicate and by the time Jeremy left school, the room was full of elephants.
An adopted child has already suffered great trauma when removed from the birth mother, to tell a child they are adopted and then send them away to school is difficult to fathom but I dont believe they knew the damage they were doing to either child. The proof is there for all to see. .... very tragic.

Offline Caroline

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Re: The lockable from outside window. A time for closure ?
« Reply #302 on: July 05, 2015, 07:16:PM »
An adopted child has already suffered great trauma when removed from the birth mother, to tell a child they are adopted and then send them away to school is difficult to fathom but I dont believe they knew the damage they were doing to either child. The proof is there for all to see. .... very tragic.

No, I don't think they had any idea of the potential damage. Being told about the adoption or being sent to boarding school would be quite stressful for an eight year old boy, but both together but be very difficult to reconcile.
Few people have the imagination for reality

Offline maggie

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Re: The lockable from outside window. A time for closure ?
« Reply #303 on: July 05, 2015, 07:19:PM »
No, I don't think they had any idea of the potential damage. Being told about the adoption or being sent to boarding school would be quite stressful for an eight year old boy, but both together but be very difficult to reconcile.
Abandonment all over again for them both.

Offline Jane

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Re: The lockable from outside window. A time for closure ?
« Reply #304 on: July 05, 2015, 07:22:PM »
Wilkes doesn't mention any parental visit for the whole eight years. Claire Powell talks of June turning up formally in tweeds to see Sheila at Moira House when many other mothers were casually dressed. If you fail to understand the nascent alienation from the family which Jeremy experienced you will never understand how he could detach himself from his parents so readily that it gave grounds in his mind for the execution of them all.


Adam doesn't do empathy, Steve.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: The lockable from outside window. A time for closure ?
« Reply #305 on: July 05, 2015, 07:24:PM »
I highlighted a possible reason for this. It may stemmed from the relationship he had with Sheila and may have been about good child/bad child and sibling rivalry. Sheila was almost 3 years Jeremy's senior and had received the lion's share of attention until Jeremy's arrival when she had to share it which she may have resented.

Did Jeremy learn, at an early age, that Sheila's needs came first? Were Sheila's demands for attention put before Jeremy's needs. Were the Bambers a little afraid of their volatile daughter and thus go out of their way to appease her. Did Jeremy feel it was useless to tell his parents how he felt because he saw that it took all their time to cope with Sheila? We know that Neville had lengthy phone calls with Sheila during which he calmed her down. Might she have thrown tantrums as a child to deflect attention from Jeremy? We know that Sheila changed schools twice and on occasion ran away. There is far more about Sheila, than Jeremy, to suggest a difficult and troubled childhood. Did Jeremy suppress his own feelings to the point where, seeing his parents yet AGAIN, turning themselves inside out to try to solve Sheila's problems -maybe at his expense- they exploded?
I don't really see it like that because Jeremy seemed to be coping until eight years old when he was sent away,and afterwards he would only see Sheila in the holidays,when they were left to their own devices and starved of the affection they needed. Jeremy would tag onto Sheila's clique in those early days before her illness,yet later she would become an embarrassment to him,and the perceived inequality would rankle as he put in yet another long week at the Farm whilst his sister lived in the Maida Vale flat. However we don't know the full extent of Jeremy's thought processes,only getting a smattering through Julie's statement,where Sheila is supposed to have "done horrid things" to him in the past,but when pressed for more detail he has never elucidated.

Offline Jane

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Re: The lockable from outside window. A time for closure ?
« Reply #306 on: July 05, 2015, 07:38:PM »
I don't really see it like that because Jeremy seemed to be coping until eight years old when he was sent away,and afterwards he would only see Sheila in the holidays,when they were left to their own devices and starved of the affection they needed. Jeremy would tag onto Sheila's clique in those early days before her illness,yet later she would become an embarrassment to him,and the perceived inequality would rankle as he put in yet another long week at the Farm whilst his sister lived in the Maida Vale flat. However we don't know the full extent of Jeremy's thought processes,only getting a smattering through Julie's statement,where Sheila is supposed to have "done horrid things" to him in the past,but when pressed for more detail he has never elucidated.

Steve, I offered it only as a possibility but certainly, by eight, Jeremy would already have learned to "keep it in." No one would have suspected that he was anything but a good and cooperative child. I know someone who confessed to his parents -in his fifties- that he'd hated school because he'd been bullied. They'd had no idea. Their time had been taken up with his difficult older sibling.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: The lockable from outside window. A time for closure ?
« Reply #307 on: July 05, 2015, 07:41:PM »
Steve, I offered it only as a possibility but certainly, by eight, Jeremy would already have learned to "keep it in." No one would have suspected that he was anything but a good and cooperative child. I know someone who confessed to his parents -in his fifties- that he'd hated school because he'd been bullied. They'd had no idea. Their time had been taken up with his difficult older sibling.
That's possible April,and as you are closer to the family albeit anecdotally you may have more information. Going from Colin's book we get an incident related by Sheila that Jeremy would snap the stalks of June's favourite flowers in the garden,but nothing of a deviant Sheila. I did read somewhere that she was susceptible to the odd tantrum in a department store in Chelmsford but can't remember the provenance of the story.

Offline susan

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Re: The lockable from outside window. A time for closure ?
« Reply #308 on: July 05, 2015, 07:46:PM »
Steve, I offered it only as a possibility but certainly, by eight, Jeremy would already have learned to "keep it in." No one would have suspected that he was anything but a good and cooperative child. I know someone who confessed to his parents -in his fifties- that he'd hated school because he'd been bullied. They'd had no idea. Their time had been taken up with his difficult older sibling.

April  I think it quite common that children keep things bottled up from their parents until they are much older and in some cases they never disclose their feelings as a child and I think Jeremy felt rejected and second place to Sheila because of all the attention she had due to her illness he would feel a certain amount of resentment.  When he was bullied at school because of his accent Sheila always went to his defence and looked after him but when he moved to Greshams he had to defend himself and the way he did that was to become a bully and his House master said Jeremy was cold and aloof.

Offline Jane

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Re: The lockable from outside window. A time for closure ?
« Reply #309 on: July 05, 2015, 07:50:PM »
That's possible April,and as you are closer to the family albeit anecdotally you may have more information. Going from Colin's book we get an incident related by Sheila that Jeremy would snap the stalks of June's favourite flowers in the garden,but nothing of a deviant Sheila. I did read somewhere that she was susceptible to the odd tantrum in a department store in Chelmsford but can't remember the provenance of the story.

Steve, I get the impression that both children were a trial to June. Young mothers use each other for support. June seemed not to. Did she believe all the other mothers were more competent -they probably weren't- or was she constantly comparing her children with theirs and finding them wanting. I think the only truth which may be relied on is that everything in the garden was very definitely NOT rosy.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: The lockable from outside window. A time for closure ?
« Reply #310 on: July 05, 2015, 08:04:PM »
Steve, I get the impression that both children were a trial to June. Young mothers use each other for support. June seemed not to. Did she believe all the other mothers were more competent -they probably weren't- or was she constantly comparing her children with theirs and finding them wanting. I think the only truth which may be relied on is that everything in the garden was very definitely NOT rosy.
I think she compared herself to the Queen,a wealthy lady who did charitable works but did not bother herself with the minutiae of child-rearing. I was confirmed in my suspicion when I learned from Jeremy's website that her favourite cake had been the Victoria sandwich. Of course young children may well then compete for the diminishing resources of their mother's time.

Offline maggie

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Re: The lockable from outside window. A time for closure ?
« Reply #311 on: July 05, 2015, 08:05:PM »
Steve, I get the impression that both children were a trial to June. Young mothers use each other for support. June seemed not to. Did she believe all the other mothers were more competent -they probably weren't- or was she constantly comparing her children with theirs and finding them wanting. I think the only truth which may be relied on is that everything in the garden was very definitely NOT rosy.
I would guess her own difficulties and illness came between her and her babies. True bonding is about eye contacts and facial reactions to a baby's needs and emotions, if that doesn't happen with an adopted  baby they struggle to feel part of anything. Security is so important for these children and the problems will start to show in early teens, any destabLisation within the family could cause trauma no one may be aware of, they may not even have reused themselves.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: The lockable from outside window. A time for closure ?
« Reply #312 on: July 05, 2015, 08:11:PM »
I would guess her own difficulties and illness came between her and her babies. True bonding is about eye contacts and facial reactions to a baby's needs and emotions, if that doesn't happen with an adopted  baby they struggle to feel part of anything. Security is so important for these children and the problems will start to show in early teens, any destabLisation within the family could cause trauma no one may be aware of, they may not even have reused themselves.
I think family was all about show for June at least in the early days to overcome the stigma of being childless. The irony is I think she did learn skills as the children got older but as you say the illness got in the way and she fussed herself into hospital,though the true nature and severity of her illness has been obfuscated. Maybe she turned to the Church for support and the clergy who worked therein,which was possibly the provenance of the heartfelt letter to be opened after her death and which may not have been written had someone from within the clergy not told her where she had been going wrong.

Offline Jane

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Re: The lockable from outside window. A time for closure ?
« Reply #313 on: July 05, 2015, 08:24:PM »
I think family was all about show for June at least in the early days to overcome the stigma of being childless. The irony is I think she did learn skills as the children got older but as you say the illness got in the way and she fussed herself into hospital,though the true nature and severity of her illness has been obfuscated. Maybe she turned to the Church for support and the clergy who worked therein,which was possibly the provenance of the heartfelt letter to be opened after her death and which may not have been written had someone from within the clergy not told her where she had been going wrong.


If June revealed little to her friends -and please don't misunderstand me, I believe if any had shown signs of having problems, she'd have been the first to offer help- she revealed even less to her children. I truly believe she found it impossible to show how she felt. Children take everything at face value and to them an emotionless face probably meant disapproval. The bonding process would have been on a hiding to nowhere.

Offline maggie

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Re: The lockable from outside window. A time for closure ?
« Reply #314 on: July 05, 2015, 08:54:PM »

If June revealed little to her friends -and please don't misunderstand me, I believe if any had shown signs of having problems, she'd have been the first to offer help- she revealed even less to her children. I truly believe she found it impossible to show how she felt. Children take everything at face value and to them an emotionless face probably meant disapproval. The bonding process would have been on a hiding to nowhere.
Have to agree, don't think she had any idea how to show her feelings, maybe her own childhood was similar but adopted children need love and still can struggle.