Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: wilf on August 27, 2013, 04:12:PM
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I have several questions I hope someone can help with. In the log of the call from Jeremy it seems straightforward sender JB, receiver 1990, exchange line, at we are told the local pilice station. Who or what is 1990? Is this PC West?
In Ralphs call made earlier the log is on a different type of form and lists sender as 1990 and receiver as MB Malcolm Bonnet exchange line is listed. It is reasonable to assume that Ralph would have dialed 999 which is not highlighted. So who did Ralph speak to where were they located? If 1990 took both calls he/she would clearly link them they being within ten minutes. Is there a missing log of a 999 call sent by Ralph? Is there a record of an emergency call at BT exchange?
Im sorry if this is going over old ground but Im just trying to get things straight in my head.
wilf
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Hi Wilf
1990 is the collar number for West.....Not sure if the records at BT were fully investigated to be fair. There is a BT account on whether there were day calls or evening calls....It appears this was done by a meter. I must admit to thinking that the because there was a roll out for itemised calls, they did have the technology, but lacked enthusiasm in trying to trace the calls down.... :-\ :-\ :-\
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On the 5th of August 2010,,new evidence had revealed a logged police call from Neville before the murders took place.
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I think Jeremy may have been worried that BT might have been able to prove that he made a telephone call from White House to Goldhanger and that nobody picked up(the answerphone message would be activated),so he made a call to Julie first upon return to Bourtree Cottage and then telephoned Witham,where he either hung up after one or two rings or didn't telephone them at all,and only at that stage did he telephone Chelmsford Police Station. At no stage did he dial 999 which he was worried if he did they might have been able to trace the preceding call,and it also gave him time to clean himself up(this has been called the "Radox" moment thoughI've forgotten who mentioned it)whilst he was pretending to flick through Yellow Pages for the Chelmsford number.
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steve are you now telling me Jeremy shot his family then went home and had a soak in Radox what a strange thing to do.
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steve are you now telling me Jeremy shot his family then went home and had a soak in Radox what a strange thing to do.
No somebody else suggested it.I can't remember the thread now. It may have been in response to my "freedom,freedom..the rusted tractor" but I don't recall where it is now. I do hope it's recorded for posterity.
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steve I too hope it has been recorded for posterity I would feel happier about it.
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I think Jeremy may have been worried that BT might have been able to prove that he made a telephone call from White House to Goldhanger and that nobody picked up(the answerphone message would be activated),so he made a call to Julie first upon return to Bourtree Cottage and then telephoned Witham,where he either hung up after one or two rings or didn't telephone them at all,and only at that stage did he telephone Chelmsford Police Station. At no stage did he dial 999 which he was worried if he did they might have been able to trace the preceding call,and it also gave him time to clean himself up(this has been called the "Radox" moment thoughI've forgotten who mentioned it)whilst he was pretending to flick through Yellow Pages for the Chelmsford number.
This doesn't make sense Steve - how would they be able to trace the preceding call? And why wouldn't he just dial 999? If he's murdered everyone and wanted to come over as the concerned son - why wouldn't he have simply dialled 999?
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Caroline behave yourself and stop asking awkward questions about phone calls ;D ;D ;D
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Caroline behave yourself and stop asking awkward questions about phone calls ;D ;D ;D
I just don't understand where Steve gets his theories from. Wet suits, watches under rugs and tractor canopies. I don't think Sherlock has much need to worry ;D ;D
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This doesn't make sense Steve - how would they be able to trace the preceding call? And why wouldn't he just dial 999? If he's murdered everyone and wanted to come over as the concerned son - why wouldn't he have simply dialled 999?
Because he needed time to clean himself up. Remember there were specks of blood on clothing found in his wardrobe weeks after the murders. Jeremy didn't know whether a telephone call to the Police might have recorded digitally and also been able to pick up the preceding call,which I suspect was just Jeremy telephoning his answerphone from White House. That's why Jeremy also made a call to Julie first. Of course he never spoke to Nevill at all that night,or rather Nevill never tried to make contact with Jeremy via the telephone.
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No somebody else suggested it.I can't remember the thread now. It may have been in response to my "freedom,freedom..the rusted tractor" but I don't recall where it is now. I do hope it's recorded for posterity.
Egoistic, narcissistic, arrogant. Who do I know who fits that bill? Can't imagine I know ANYBODY like that. ;D ;D ;D
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Because he needed time to clean himself up. Remember there were specks of blood on clothing found in his wardrobe weeks after the murders. Jeremy didn't know whether a telephone call to the Police might have recorded digitally and also been able to pick up the preceding call,which I suspect was just Jeremy telephoning his answerphone from White House. That's why Jeremy also made a call to Julie first. Of course he never spoke to Nevill at all that night,or rather Nevill never tried to make contact with Jeremy via the telephone.
The specks of blood were in no way linked to the murders and you know it!! Why on earth would he think a preceding call would be picked up during another call?? No one would think that!! And I don't see what you're getting at by stating "That's why Jeremy also made a call to Julie first" is there meant to be some obvious reason? He could have cleaned himself up and then dialled 999. Most of what you have just said is completely out of your own imagination.
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The specks of blood were in no way linked to the murders and you know it!! Why on earth would he think a preceding call would be picked up during another call?? No one would think that!! And I don't see what you're getting at by stating "That's why Jeremy also made a call to Julie first" is there meant to be some obvious reason? He could have cleaned himself up and then dialled 999. Most of what you have just said is completely out of your own imagination.
No Caroline there's a gap of 20 minutes which Jeremy has to explain(it happened in the David Bain case too). He stated he had flicked through Yellow Pages trying to find the Chelmsford Police Station number when any rational person faced with an emergency such as that would have immediately dialled 999,as would Nevill in reality.
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Steve,,have you ever emulated your father.? This is what Jeremy was doing when he didn't ring 999 in case it was a false alarm that he didn't want to trouble the police unnecessarily.
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Caroline I ask myself what next mind you it is necessary for him to contradict himself to keep his theories going have you put them to Alfie to consider ;D ;D
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Caroline I ask myself what next mind you it is necessary for him to contradict himself to keep his theories going have you put them to Alfie to consider ;D ;D
Susan, he's obviously reasoned that if he keeps subtley altering his theories, we wont remember what he's said.
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Caroline I ask myself what next mind you it is necessary for him to contradict himself to keep his theories going have you put them to Alfie to consider ;D ;D
Oh not Alfie,please not Alfie!
Who is Alfie?
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steve that is classified information we cannot share with you. Sorry but Alfie is a very upstanding intelligent being loved by all.
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Caroline Alfie will remember and tell us ;) ;) ;)
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steve that is classified information we cannot share with you. Sorry but Alfie is a very upstanding intelligent being loved by all.
A higher form of intelligence, wouldn't you say, Susan?
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No Caroline there's a gap of 20 minutes which Jeremy has to explain(it happened in the David Bain case too). He stated he had flicked through Yellow Pages trying to find the Chelmsford Police Station number when any rational person faced with an emergency such as that would have immediately dialled 999,as would Nevill in reality.
That's what I'm saying - he'd have certainly had that part of the plan worked out and calling 999 would (IMO) have been part of it. Think about it - if he's innocent, he didn't know it was an emergency - only that Sheila had the gun. Not that she was threatening anyone, just that she 'had the gun'. The Bambers were private people, didn't like people knowing their business. So he gets the call and not sure what to do, he calls Julie - she is neither use nor ornament and tells him to go to bed. Rather than make a fuss and call 999, he decides he will call the police but not on the emergency number. If he was guilty, he knows they're all dead and so calling 999 would make more sense. If he was that 'phone call savy' he wouldn't have called Julie. But according to you, he called his number from WHF, cycled back to Goldhanger, had a wash, then changed, called Julie, looked for two different phone numbers - all in 20 minutes? :o :o
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Oh not Alfie,please not Alfie!
Who is Alfie?
My doggie!!
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steve that is classified information we cannot share with you. Sorry but Alfie is a very upstanding intelligent being loved by all.
Opps!! I blabbed :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ ;D ;D
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Caroline the doggie is just our cover story ;D ;D ;D steve will never guess who Alfie really is ;D
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That's what I'm saying - he'd have certainly had that part of the plan worked out and calling 999 would (IMO) have been part of it. Think about it - if he's innocent, he didn't know it was an emergency - only that Sheila had the gun. Not that she was threatening anyone, just that she 'had the gun'. The Bambers were private people, didn't like people knowing their business. So he gets the call and not sure what to do, he calls Julie - she is neither use nor ornament and tells him to go to bed. Rather than make a fuss and call 999, he decides he will call the police but not on the emergency number. If he was guilty, he knows they're all dead and so calling 999 would make more sense. If he was that 'phone call savy' he wouldn't have called Julie. But according to you, he called his number from WHF, cycled back to Goldhanger, had a wash, then changed, called Julie, looked for two different phone numbers - all in 20 minutes? :o :o
He called Julie for moral support. I think he was going to tell her he'd done it and initially said:"All is going well..",then realizing that Julie was on a shared phone he comes out with "something is wrong at the Farm". All wicked and completely cynical.
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Caroline the doggie is just our cover story ;D ;D ;D steve will never guess who Alfie really is ;D
Oh, oh - yeah, that's right!! ;)
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He called Julie for moral support. I think he was going to tell her he'd done it and initially said:"All is going well..",then realizing that Julie was on a shared phone he comes out with "something is wrong at the Farm". All wicked and completely cynical.
How did he manage to do all that in 20 minutes?? That was the question which you side stepped!! ;D
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steve and what did Julie say to him get back to your bed she must have been really worried he had murdered his family he had told her earlier according to you tonights the night.
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Maybe JB wasn't overly concerned as he knew that he had not left the gun loaded and therefore didn't deem it to be much of a threat?
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He called Julie for moral support. I think he was going to tell her he'd done it and initially said:"All is going well..",then realizing that Julie was on a shared phone he comes out with "something is wrong at the Farm". All wicked and completely cynical.
But we only have Julie's version of what he said during those calls, just like the was never anyone present when he supposedly made all those comments to RWB.
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steve and what did Julie say to him get back to your bed she must have been really worried he had murdered his family he had told her earlier according to you tonights the night.
And lets not forget "It's now or never" :D
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And lets no forget "It's now or never" :D
"Oh sole mio"
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But we only have Julie's version of what he said during those calls, just like the was never anyone present when he supposedly made all those comments to RWB.
The most important thing to my mind was that there were witnesses when the call was received.
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"Oh sole mio"
Just one Cornetto ;D
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The most important thing to my mind was that there were witnesses when the call was received.
As he never denied making the calls, it hardly matters, and unless they were crowded around the phone listening to the conversation, they couldn't possibly have heard what he said, and Julie telling him to go to bed because she was going to, would have told them nothing.
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As he never denied making the calls, it hardly matters, and unless they were crowded around the phone listening to the conversation, they couldn't possibly have heard what he said, and Julie telling him to go to bed because she was going to, would have told them nothing.
Funny that Julie was so important to him at that stage of his plan,he made a beeline for her at Bourtree Cottage the first moment he was able,then dumped her unceremoniously as soon as he had DCI Taff Jones fooled.
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Funny that Julie was so important to him at that stage of his plan,he made a beeline for her at Bourtree Cottage the first moment he was able,then dumped her unceremoniously as soon as he had DCI Taff Jones fooled.
Not at all funny/strange/unusual/suspicious/extraordinary if one is seeing it from a position of his innocence.
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Funny that Julie was so important to him at that stage of his plan,he made a beeline for her at Bourtree Cottage the first moment he was able,then dumped her unceremoniously as soon as he had DCI Taff Jones fooled.
Have been out for a couple of hours, have just read the forum ....... haven't had such a good laugh in ages, bloody hilarious thank you you all ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Funny that Julie was so important to him at that stage of his plan,he made a beeline for her at Bourtree Cottage the first moment he was able,then dumped her unceremoniously as soon as he had DCI Taff Jones fooled.
The act of dumping someone who knows you murdered 5 people is unlikely - especially as it was only weeks after the murders. However, the act of seeking revenge after being dumped - is highly likely!!
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The act of dumping someone who knows you murdered 5 people is unlikely - especially as it was only weeks after the murders. However, the act of seeking revenge after being dumped - is highly likely!!
The claim that Jeremy Bamber was capable of murder but soooo stupid that he dumped Julie after telling her he did it is beyond any reasonable persons belief. He would have kept her close and maybe, if he was crazy enough to murder his family the way it's claimed he did then he would have got rid of her (killed her) at a later date.
We all know the saying, 'keep your friend close and your enemies closer'.
The behaviour of Julie is typical of a hurt and angry immature young woman who maybe had issues of her own after being deserted by her father at a young age????
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The claim that Jeremy Bamber was capable of murder but soooo stupid that he dumped Julie after telling her he did it is beyond any reasonable persons belief. He would have kept her close and maybe, if he was crazy enough to murder his family the way it's claimed he did then he would have got rid of her (killed her) at a later date.
We all know the saying, 'keep your friend close and your enemies closer'.
The behaviour of Julie is typical of a hurt and angry immature young woman who maybe had issues of her own after being deserted by her father at a young age????
He could only think of Angi Greaves at that moment on the other end of a telephone line. He didn't really dump her,just was two-timing her. He would have set her up in a London wine bar and as memories of the murders faded things would from Jeremy's standpoint have got back to normal.
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Hi Wilf
1990 is the collar number for West.....Not sure if the records at BT were fully investigated to be fair. There is a BT account on whether there were day calls or evening calls....It appears this was done by a meter. I must admit to thinking that the because there was a roll out for itemised calls, they did have the technology, but lacked enthusiasm in trying to trace the calls down.... :-\ :-\ :-\
The must have had the technology. Otherwise they could not bill anyone for every call made. So at the very least they could tell how many calls were made that night. So why was this not fully investigated?
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I just don't understand where Steve gets his theories from. Wet suits, watches under rugs and tractor canopies. I don't think Sherlock has much need to worry ;D ;D
Books. ;)
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Because he needed time to clean himself up. Remember there were specks of blood on clothing found in his wardrobe weeks after the murders. Jeremy didn't know whether a telephone call to the Police might have recorded digitally and also been able to pick up the preceding call,which I suspect was just Jeremy telephoning his answerphone from White House. That's why Jeremy also made a call to Julie first. Of course he never spoke to Nevill at all that night,or rather Nevill never tried to make contact with Jeremy via the telephone.
So why weren't these "specks of blood" tested and presented at the trial? Possibly because they didn't exist?
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Caroline the doggie is just our cover story ;D ;D ;D steve will never guess who Alfie really is ;D
WOOF WOOF
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So why weren't these "specks of blood" tested and presented at the trial? Possibly because they didn't exist?
No they were referred to by Dr. John Hayward at trial. Maybe you should avail yourself of the odd book after all..
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He could only think of Angi Greaves at that moment on the other end of a telephone line. He didn't really dump her,just was two-timing her. He would have set her up in a London wine bar and as memories of the murders faded things would from Jeremy's standpoint have got back to normal.
I am far from convinced about you Steve, you seem to be encouraging me or someone to argue with you, particularly at the moment.
Jeremy wanted to be with her (Julie), in fact he begged her not to leave him.
He dumped her, he didn't want to be with her.
She didn't understand him any more because he seemed to prefer Brett to her.
He preferred Brett because he understood how men grieve and 21 year old Julie didn't.
Because she didn't and was immature she took this as a slight against her, she forgot what he had suffered and started to demand his attention.
It was the worst thing she could have done to a man who was trying to deal with grief. It's something women learn late but most men know, they grieve in a very different way.
Julie could not grasp this and her constant attention seeking, demands and questions about her importance when he was suffering was far too much for Jeremy.
Men don't want cosy talks and tears, especially If they have spent years in a private boarding school, they don't know how to do that.
They want diversion and fun and understanding when they fall off the bandwagon, it's just the way they deal.
I believe Julie really didn't understand this, her immaturity then lead her to believe he was hiding something and this was encouraged by the Boutflour and Eatons. the police then moved in and reinforced what she had been hearing/thinking.
Julie may have been many things but I think she was coerced and manipulated by EP and the families
Meanwhile, Jeremy Bamber remains in jail for a crime I cannot believe he committed.
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I am far from convinced about you Steve, you seem to be encouraging me or someone to argue with you, particularly at the moment.
Jeremy wanted to be with her (Julie), in fact he begged her not to leave him.
He dumped her, he didn't want to be with her.
She didn't understand him any more because he seemed to prefer Brett to her.
He preferred Brett because he understood how men grieve and 21 year old Julie didn't.
Because she didn't and was immature she took this as a slight against her, she forgot what he had suffered and started to demand his attention.
It was the worst thing she could have done to a man who was trying to deal with grief. It's something women learn late but most men know, they grieve in a very different way.
Julie could not grasp this and her constant attention seeking, demands and questions about her importance when he was suffering was far too much for Jeremy.
Men don't want cosy talks and tears, especially If they have spent years in a private boarding school, they don't know how to do that.
They want diversion and fun and understanding when they fall off the bandwagon, it's just the way they deal.
I believe Julie really didn't understand this, her immaturity then lead her to believe he was hiding something and this was encouraged by the Boutflour and Eatons. the police then moved in and reinforced what she had been hearing/thinking.
Julie may have been many things but I think she was coerced and manipulated by EP and the families
Meanwhile, Jeremy Bamber remains in jail for a crime I cannot believe he committed.
But there was no grief. Julie saw it. She heard it from Jeremy's own lips at Blazer's restaurant Blackheath:"I don't feel anything..maybe there's something wrong with me..". Julie realized that this was not a man with whom she had a future,with whom she could have children. She got out.
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But there was no grief. Julie saw it. She heard it from Jeremy's own lips at Blazer's restaurant Blackheath:"I don't feel anything..maybe there's something wrong with me..". Julie realized that this was not a man with whom she had a future,with whom she could have children. She got out.
Where is that quote from Steve?
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No they were referred to by Dr. John Hayward at trial. Maybe you should avail yourself of the odd book after all..
Were they tested?
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Where is that quote from Steve?
Of course her very expression at the funeral as she comforts Jeremy contradicts what she was supposed to have said. Strange isn't it Maggie that all these things were said by her AFTER Jeremy broke up with her. The words "woman" and "scorned" come to mind. In fact there is a clear break in her words before he dumped ner and her words after he dumped her. Again the words "tissue" and "lies" come to mind.
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Where is that quote from Steve?
Sorry Steve but Julie was a bit of an unaware 21 year old. At that age women are not always quite on the ball.
It takes experience to develop a woman into someone who is mature enough and knowing enough to be able to evaluate a mans behaviour.
I would believe and I do understand this, being a woman, having a mother, a sister, 2 daughters and being a woman of some experience myself that Julie simply didn't get Jeremy, I would further evaluate that Jeremy didn't get Julie, therefore there was a breakdown in understanding which lead to Jeremy making advances to other women because at least he may get a bit of comfort for a short while from someone like that.
I doubt he was looking for a long term relationship, he was just trying to cope. Unfortunately, so was Julie but while he was trying to deal with the loss of 5 members of his family, she was just worrying whether he 'loved' her any more.
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Of course her very expression at the funeral as she comforts Jeremy contradicts what she was supposed to have said. Strange isn't it Maggie that all these things were said by her AFTER Jeremy broke up with her. The words "woman" and "scorned" come to mind. In fact there is a clear break in her words before he dumped ner and her words after he dumped her. Again the words "tissue" and "lies" come to mind.
It's true Lugg she looked very concerned and very comforting.
Of course it could also be seen as controlling.
The fact is she was in charge at that point and therefore happy to be in that situation, very different from when she found Brett was the chosen one not her and she had lost her power over Jeremy. imo ;)
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But there was no grief. Julie saw it. She heard it from Jeremy's own lips at Blazer's restaurant Blackheath:"I don't feel anything..maybe there's something wrong with me..". Julie realized that this was not a man with whom she had a future,with whom she could have children. She got out.
Maybe Jeremy did say those words but just stop for a minute Steve, think about a different connotation on what Jeremy was saying.
Maybe he was just asking her why after all the horror he didn't feel anything and then remember the psychological problem many traumatised people have who find it hard to grasp anything about a traumatic event and the months before they can truly emote with what went on.
Traumatised people can take years to come to terms with violent behaviour, it doesn't happen overnight.
Do you never wonder that you are accusing and condemning a man who was possibly wrongly accused, massively traumatised and totally misunderstood to a life in prison. Hope you have seriously thought this through Steve.
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WOOF WOOF
Alfie - OK, he needs a damn good shave but he's a pretty good detective as long as you have a biscuit!! But he is a bit vain!
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Who or what is 1990? Is this PC West?
Yes, definitely.
It is reasonable to assume that Ralph would have dialed 999 which is not highlighted.
Ralph was a magistrate, so he may have known the number of Chelmsford police station. Also, it's argued that Ralph was the sort of person who might prefer not to dial 999, especially if no shooting had taken place in WHF at the time he called.
Essex police have behaved strangely with regard to their logs, denying there was more to disclose until a court order required them to disclose more. There are various indications that further information is still withheld, such as copies of audio tapes made. Some things which almost certainly occurred are not mentioned in the disclosed logs.
They must have had the technology. Otherwise they could not bill anyone for every call made.
They didn't bill local calls individually. There are some notes on BT's history on their corporate website that mention the introduction of itemized billing (for certain business customers in London) in 1986.
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Morning steve grief can affect people in different ways some just shut down totally and that is the worst thing a person can do some cry buckets and talk about the deaths and that is much better for them but it all depends on the type of person you are emotionally maybe Jeremy had taught himself to shut down with happenings at his school and I think he would have realized at a young age the extended family had little time for him so don't be listening to Julie she is telling you what she wants you to believe. Remember we saw no emotion at Diana's funeral from her two sons Wills and Harry who worshipped her. Some people can cry for the sake of it when they think it is to their advantage!!!! You stated Julie got out I don't think so she was put out and had this not happened she would have been more than delighted to have Jeremy Bamber the Father of her children and he would not be serving life for a crime he did not commit :( steve wake up and smell the coffee ;D
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Morning Caroline Alfie has every right to be vain with his good looks ;D ;D ;D
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Morning Maggie I see Julie Mugford as a total control freak and after the deaths of Jeremy's family she anticipated being more in control and thought she would be taking Jeremy over. What a shock to her confidence and ego when she was dumped revenge big time comes to mind then compensated by the £25,000 which was a fortune then especially to a young girl from the North :( hope her good works are now helping to ease her guilt as she is bound to have this emotion from time to time and as she gets older it will get stronger.
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Maggie Jeremy Bamber and Julie were as different as chalk and cheese and the relationship would never have worked. Men of 24 are not really mature enough to settle down they need to sow lots of wild oats. On the otherhand Julie just wanted Jeremy and what he stood for money, posh and very good looking and she did envisage becoming the next Mrs Bamber. She was not the right candidate for this role fete's arranging flowers in the church WRI no she was more into smoking dope and having a good time. Life is strange men can get away with this type of behaviour they are sowing their wild oats unfortunately women are looked at quite differently not fair I grant you but nevertheless true.
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Maggie excellent post Julie was starting to smoother Jeremy emotionally and she should have given him space to grieve in his own way but I am still of the same frame of mind a woman scorned is lethal. She had proved with the throwing of the soap and trying to smoother him and other incidents that she had a bad temper she was not a meek gentle soul and it was not difficult for her to do what she did as it was pay back time and she had won :( Off she went with a smile on her face clutching her reward and at the time being a celeb who was craving attention as she was so jealous of Jeremy as he was what she would have liked to be.
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steve had the specs of blood been of any significance they would have been presented at Trial by the prosecution afterall they had very little else to present. I do not need to avail myself of a book to work that one out.
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Maggie I would love to know where steve gets all his information from as much of it is not documented maybe in some books where the Author has interviewed Julie steve's posts are all one sided and factually incorrect. Wine bar indeed!!!!!
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steve you have quoted earlier Jeremy only wanted Julie around so he could have his Mother's bike on hand for his journey to and from the farm ;D ;D ;D
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But there was no grief. Julie saw it. She heard it from Jeremy's own lips at Blazer's restaurant Blackheath:"I don't feel anything..maybe there's something wrong with me..". Julie realized that this was not a man with whom she had a future,with whom she could have children. She got out.
Those few words demonstrate succinctly that in Steve we have the embodiment of an educator who refuses to be educated, Maggie's post, and his response to it, being a perfect example of what I'm attempting to show. Steve sees only the immediacy of situations/words and doesn't look beyond to the bigger picture. He may lack the emotional experience and understanding which would enable him to see further.
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Maggie I would love to know where steve gets all his information from as much of it is not documented maybe in some books where the Author has interviewed Julie steve's posts are all one sided and factually incorrect. Wine bar indeed!!!!!
Susan Good Morning :) He gets his information from authors who've had to rely on what others tell them and then further embellishes and "bends" what the say to fit his own prescribed version of events. I have to say that on occasions he does it in a wickedly subtle way. When he "does" the wine bar scenario, we're far more likely to see (through Steve's eyes, that is) Jeremy quaffing champagne, groping females and generally making his presence felt, than the young man who sat quietly whilst those around him were enjoying themselves as described by the Burnham on Crouch restaurant owner.
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No they were referred to by Dr. John Hayward at trial. Maybe you should avail yourself of the odd book after all..
I don't want to become like you who read too many "odd" books. ;D
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Lugg quite right we have enough with one steve ;D ;D ;D
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Alfie - OK, he needs a damn good shave but he's a pretty good detective as long as you have a biscuit!! But he is a bit vain!
He's saying, "I need a trip to the grooming parlour". ;D
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He's saying, "I need a trip to the grooming parlour". ;D
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He's just been Lugg, you cn't get him away from the mirror now!!
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thanks for the info. I know that as late as the early 90's when I was showed around an exchange that billing was done by recording units used on electromechanical counters the wonders of digital were not evedent or mentioned where I visited. so call number recording seems to be out. finding out who phoned who and when I suspect could not be found out. I remember dialing 999 somewhwre about 1985 (the garage at the end of the street caught fire) it went like this
I dial 999
operator "emergency what number are you calling from?"
me "er XXXXXX"
operator "What service do you require?"
me "fire"
operator "control I have an emergency call from XXXXXX"
control "go ahead caller"
so if a 999 call were made I would think it would be logged at exchange and poilce control.
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thanks for the info. I know that as late as the early 90's when I was showed around an exchange that billing was done by recording units used on electromechanical counters the wonders of digital were not evedent or mentioned where I visited. so call number recording seems to be out. finding out who phoned who and when I suspect could not be found out. I remember dialing 999 somewhwre about 1985 (the garage at the end of the street caught fire) it went like this
I dial 999
operator "emergency what number are you calling from?"
me "er XXXXXX"
operator "What service do you require?"
me "fire"
operator "control I have an emergency call from XXXXXX"
control "go ahead caller"
so if a 999 call were made I would think it would be logged at exchange and poilce control.
Hi Wilf
Itemised bills were being piloted at that time. They certainly did have the technology but it was not rolled out in all areas and was not seen to go national for a few years after that....
I must point out to you that Jeremy did not use the exchange when he rang the police he used the local number, he called direct.
I can agree with your scenario above, but I don't think they asked you the number you were dialing from, that came later due to crank calls to the police services......Digital age had arrived at that time, but I am unsure we had digital phones....Its possible that we did, we certainly had digital clocks in 1985....
There is a history of BT somewhere on the internet that one of our members posted....I think it was Neil....
I am not entirely convinced that NB phoned the police from WHF even though I have seen the phone log....it could be explained in two ways....but is questionable nonetheless..... :) :) :) :)
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Wilf,,,in 2004,,it was found that there were indeed two separate phone calls.
CA07 car was sent to WHF at 3.35am and CA05 was sent at 3.36am.
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Wilf,,,in 2004,,it was found that there were indeed two separate phone calls.
Not true.
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Hmm,if that was the case then JB would be a free man!
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Wilf,,,in 2004,,it was found that there were indeed two separate phone calls.
CA07 car was sent to WHF at 3.35am and CA05 was sent at 3.36am.
i heard that as well.
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Hmm,if that was the case then JB would be a free man!
exactly!
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Hmm,if that was the case then JB would be a free man!
i would of thought so yes.
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i would of thought so yes.
He should be,nugs. If it wasn't for red tape and bureaucracy.
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thanks all food for thought..... how about
Ralph rings the local police via the number he knows by memory as a J.P. West immediatly realises its urgency and switches it through to Bonnet who quite correctly lists it as from West 1990 via exchange line not 999 and deals with it. ten mins on Jeremy rings Westwho knows the emergency status is being delt with by Bonnet. West puts Jeremy on hold "whats taking so long?" while he checks with Bonnet whats happening. West records it in his log. both men have done every thing properly.
it fits for me wilf
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thanks all food for thought..... how about
Ralph rings the local police via the number he knows by memory as a J.P. West immediatly realises its urgency and switches it through to Bonnet who quite correctly lists it as from West 1990 via exchange line not 999 and deals with it. ten mins on Jeremy rings Westwho knows the emergency status is being delt with by Bonnet. West puts Jeremy on hold "whats taking so long?" while he checks with Bonnet whats happening. West records it in his log. both men have done every thing properly.
it fits for me wilf
Those of us on the " outside " with no axe to grind can see quite clearly what went on,,and what both men did. It just so happened that both calls were put on the one log and so hence the disbelief that Neville rang the police at all. Just one of many anomalies.
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I think its possible Neville called the police but EP have managed to deny it by making out that the police station clock was running 10 minutes fast. If it actually wasn't then a police car was despatched BEFORE JB made his call to the police.
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I think its possible Neville called the police but EP have managed to deny it by making out that the police station clock was running 10 minutes fast. If it actually wasn't then a police car was despatched BEFORE JB made his call to the police.
Perhaps that could be checked against other calls logged that night? The we would find out if the clock was correct or not?
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I think its possible Neville called the police but EP have managed to deny it by making out that the police station clock was running 10 minutes fast. If it actually wasn't then a police car was despatched BEFORE JB made his call to the police.
It seems that whenever there is a time in question, someone's clock is 10 mins fast!! However, PC West said the clock was always accurate when cross examined.
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Lugg,I wouldn't think EP still have any logs from that night? They get destroyed after a while don't they?
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Lugg,I wouldn't think EP still have any logs from that night? They get destroyed after a while don't they?
No matter. West's testimony is sufficient.
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Lugg,I wouldn't think EP still have any logs from that night? They get destroyed after a while don't they?
that might still be laying in fileing cabinet somewhere.
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. . . and switches it through to Bonnett . . .
I suspect that was not allowed (due to risks of loss of information, loss of call, etc.), and possibly wasn't possible.
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So the clock wasn't wrongly set.
Therefore, two calls were made/received?!
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thanks for the info. I know that as late as the early 90's when I was showed around an exchange that billing was done by recording units used on electromechanical counters the wonders of digital were not evedent or mentioned where I visited. so call number recording seems to be out. finding out who phoned who and when I suspect could not be found out. I remember dialing 999 somewhwre about 1985 (the garage at the end of the street caught fire) it went like this
I dial 999
operator "emergency what number are you calling from?"
me "er XXXXXX"
operator "What service do you require?"
me "fire"
operator "control I have an emergency call from XXXXXX"
control "go ahead caller"
so if a 999 call were made I would think it would be logged at exchange and poilce control.
Now I wonder why Jeremy did not want his call to be logged..
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Was the clock PC West misread a hands clock or digital? Why did nobody at any Police station,Witham or Chelmsford admit to speaking to Nevill that morning?
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Was the clock PC West misread a hands clock or digital? Why did nobody at any Police station,Witham or Chelmsford admit to speaking to Nevill that morning?
For the same reason that a couple of the officers on the morning of the murders didn't see any rifle.!
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Was the clock PC West misread a hands clock or digital?
He said the clock he used was digital. He clearly thought it was reliable, and that he'd read it correctly.
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He said the clock he used was digital. He clearly thought it was reliable, and that he'd read it correctly.
Exactly and had it been 'usual' for it to be fast, he's have known about it.