Jeremy Bamber Forum

OFF TOPIC => General => Topic started by: Cambridgecutie on October 04, 2024, 08:27:AM

Title: Assisted Dying/Suicide
Post by: Cambridgecutie on October 04, 2024, 08:27:AM
I am very pleased the above is being seriously looked at. 

Surely in the 21st century it is up to individuals when they want to call time?  Not the bearded one in the sky!?  The Church will say its God's decision  >:(

Why can't we all have living wills at the age of 18 that specify at what stage we want to go out?  Ie if we need so much morphine its almost ineffective and/or loss of independence. 

Vets routinely put animals down who are in distress/pain.

An aging population is already causing enormous strains.  Surely if some/many want to slope off if they feel their quality of life has deteriorated to such a point they would rather be dead, then they should be assisted by the state in doing just that?

Title: Re: Assisted Dying/Suicide
Post by: Hardy Boy on October 04, 2024, 08:40:AM
I am very pleased the above is being seriously looked at. 

Surely in the 21st century it is up to individuals when they want to call time?  Not the bearded one in the sky!?  The Church will say its God's decision  >:(

Why can't we all have living wills at the age of 18 that specify at what stage we want to go out?  Ie if we need so much morphine its almost ineffective and/or loss of independence. 

Vets routinely put animals down who are in distress/pain.

An aging population is already causing enormous strains.  Surely if some/many want to slope off if they feel their quality of life has deteriorated to such a point they would rather be dead, then they should be assisted by the state in doing just that?
Your not thinking of leaving us are you Cutie,  Jerremy might get out one day.
Title: Re: Assisted Dying/Suicide
Post by: Cambridgecutie on October 04, 2024, 08:52:AM
Your not thinking of leaving us are you Cutie,  Jerremy might get out one day.

He might come after me with ill intent for playing devil's advocate  ;D

I am middle aged and consider myself lucky as I have always had good health but if this changes in later years I would prefer to die at a time/place of my choosing. 
Title: Re: Assisted Dying/Suicide
Post by: Steve_uk on October 04, 2024, 10:22:PM
I'm not sure we need new laws, though it gives MPs something to do in justifying their huge salaries plus expenses to their constituents. At present a doctor can give a morphine injection and if the intent is to relieve pain but results in the patient's death the doctor won't be charged.

I don't like the idea of assisted dying because elderly people might feel under pressure from their younger relatives to end their lives prematurely. I suppose if two independent doctors have given a diagnosis of terminal cancer there might be a place for it, but then, as I say in the first paragraph, there's a way to end life without the necessity of bringing in a new law.
Title: Re: Assisted Dying/Suicide
Post by: Hardy Boy on October 06, 2024, 07:40:AM
I'm not sure we need new laws, though it gives MPs something to do in justifying their huge salaries plus expenses to their constituents. At present a doctor can give a morphine injection and if the intent is to relieve pain but results in the patient's death the doctor won't be charged.

I don't like the idea of assisted dying because elderly people might feel under pressure from their younger relatives to end their lives prematurely. I suppose if two independent doctors have given a diagnosis of terminal cancer there might be a place for it, but then, as I say in the first paragraph, there's a way to end life without the necessity of bringing in a new law.
It's a win win win for the Government Steve, an idea brought up by Lord Ali in the House of Lords, Starmers Puppet Master,  Starmer will probably get more freebies,  and another reason Why the Government will back it, ............... They save on paying Pensions, get rid of people who use the NHS a lot, increase the number of Houses for sale, or free's up Council houses to to house the Illegal's coming into the Country. WIN WIN WIN.
Title: Re: Assisted Dying/Suicide
Post by: ILB on October 06, 2024, 02:03:PM
I'm not sure we need new laws, though it gives MPs something to do in justifying their huge salaries plus expenses to their constituents. At present a doctor can give a morphine injection and if the intent is to relieve pain but results in the patient's death the doctor won't be charged.

I don't like the idea of assisted dying because elderly people might feel under pressure from their younger relatives to end their lives prematurely. I suppose if two independent doctors have given a diagnosis of terminal cancer there might be a place for it, but then, as I say in the first paragraph, there's a way to end life without the necessity of bringing in a new law.

This is a good point.
Title: Re: Assisted Dying/Suicide
Post by: nugnug on October 06, 2024, 02:31:PM
i think they just want to bump off all the peshioners thts the reaon the scraped the winter fuel allowence
Title: Re: Assisted Dying/Suicide
Post by: nugnug on October 13, 2024, 05:58:PM
and here's what happens next

https://off-guardian.org/2024/10/04/the-uk-govt-wants-to-legalise-assisted-dying-heres-what-happens-next/
Title: Re: Assisted Dying/Suicide
Post by: nugnug on November 13, 2024, 03:35:PM
ftom gb news https://youtu.be/AhOhWUgnKf8
Title: Re: Assisted Dying/Suicide
Post by: nugnug on November 17, 2024, 01:31:PM
https://off-guardian.org/2024/11/17/the-transhumanist-movement-and-state-run-euthanasia/
Title: Re: Assisted Dying/Suicide
Post by: Steve_uk on November 24, 2024, 10:16:PM
Coming to a venue near you, courtesy of Dr. Philip Nitschke, 77: a 3D-printed portable machine which floods with nitrogen gas at the touch of a button, the Tesla of euthanasia, the spaceship-like portable device coming ready-fitted with a transparent pane to afford the user a meaningful vista for their final moments. https://youtu.be/vW8kf8-qTaU
Title: Re: Assisted Dying/Suicide
Post by: nugnug on January 23, 2025, 10:50:PM
rather disterbing https://youtu.be/gBgh-yxZtzY
Title: Re: Assisted Dying/Suicide
Post by: nugnug on January 23, 2025, 10:58:PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgTcbrEOego
Title: Re: Assisted Dying/Suicide
Post by: nugnug on February 19, 2025, 03:23:PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcWk2w39yhQ
Title: Re: Assisted Dying/Suicide
Post by: nugnug on March 04, 2025, 06:13:PM
you wouldent belive what the labour scum are doing now https://youtu.be/PIOql0yyaRc
Title: Re: Assisted Dying/Suicide
Post by: Steve_uk on May 03, 2025, 01:39:AM
I'm becoming more uneasy about the bill as the implications become clearer. https://www.itv.com/news/2025-05-02/up-to-4500-people-to-have-assisted-death-each-year-if-bill-passes
Title: Re: Assisted Dying/Suicide
Post by: Cambridgecutie on June 20, 2025, 06:01:PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgeqj1egxvyo

Excellent result. 
Title: Re: Assisted Dying/Suicide
Post by: Steve_uk on June 20, 2025, 07:33:PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgeqj1egxvyo

Excellent result.
Isn't there a tragic irony that old people are being killed off in the week babies which could survive outside the womb have also lost their protection? https://www.npr.org/2025/06/18/g-s1-73294/uk-parliament-bans-women-prosecuted-late-term-abortion
Title: Re: Assisted Dying/Suicide
Post by: Cambridgecutie on June 20, 2025, 07:58:PM
Isn't there a tragic irony that old people are being killed off in the week babies which could survive outside the womb have also lost their protection? https://www.npr.org/2025/06/18/g-s1-73294/uk-parliament-bans-women-prosecuted-late-term-abortion

Here today, gone tomorrow.  All part of the life cycle. 
Title: Re: Assisted Dying/Suicide
Post by: Steve_uk on June 20, 2025, 08:08:PM
Here today, gone tomorrow.  All part of the life cycle.
Not if the baby could survive outside the womb, and not if pressure is put on elderly people to end their own lives.
Title: Re: Assisted Dying/Suicide
Post by: Hardy Boy on June 20, 2025, 08:34:PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgeqj1egxvyo

Excellent result.
The sixth Commandment “thou shall not kill”.  Life is sacred, that God alone gives life and that No individual has the right to arbitrarily take it from another person.

To be honest, it could be something the patients relatives regrets and feels guilt for the rest of their life’s.
Title: Re: Assisted Dying/Suicide
Post by: ngb1066 on June 20, 2025, 10:43:PM
Not if the baby could survive outside the womb, and not if pressure is put on elderly people to end their own lives.

 I have to admit that this is the first time I have to say that I agree with you. I am very uncomfortable about both of these issues.
Title: Re: Assisted Dying/Suicide
Post by: Cambridgecutie on June 21, 2025, 08:16:AM
Not if the baby could survive outside the womb, and not if pressure is put on elderly people to end their own lives.

The fetus could survive outside the womb based on the current legislation. 

Assisted dying is only permitted when < 6 months to live.  If you were suffering mentally and physically,  robbed of all dignity eg double incontinence, dribble running down your chin, unable to move and seeing your loved ones look on helplessly are you saying you would not want to press the fast forward button?

Title: Re: Assisted Dying/Suicide
Post by: Cambridgecutie on June 21, 2025, 08:20:AM
The sixth Commandment “thou shall not kill”.  Life is sacred, that God alone gives life and that No individual has the right to arbitrarily take it from another person.

To be honest, it could be something the patients relatives regrets and feels guilt for the rest of their life’s.

I don't do God! 

Why the emphasis on the relatives?  It will be the person suffering some awful fate through accident, illness or injury who will want to call time if they have < 6 months to live.
Title: Re: Assisted Dying/Suicide
Post by: Cambridgecutie on June 21, 2025, 08:29:AM
i

 I have to admit that this is the first time I have to say that I agree with you. I am very uncomfortable about both of these issues.

Thought you would be pro choice? 

Antoniazzi urged MPs to support her amendment to recognise "these women need care and support, and not criminalisation".

"Each one of these cases is a travesty, enabled by our outdated abortion law," she said.

"Originally passed by an all-male parliament elected by men alone, this Victorian law is increasingly used against vulnerable women and girls."

The Antoniazzi amendment won the support from 379 MPs, with 137 against.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2le12114j9o
Title: Re: Assisted Dying/Suicide
Post by: Hardy Boy on June 21, 2025, 09:34:AM
I don't do God! 

Why the emphasis on the relatives?  It will be the person suffering some awful fate through accident, illness or injury who will want to call time if they have < 6 months to live.
Ive been in that position,  Yes it was the right decision and what my father wanted, but I carry that burden because,  out of all my brothers and sister and mother, no one else would make the phone call for the driver to go in.  So yes, it’s something I carry with me and it was part of my Counselling.  He was my work mate, my best friend and my father and I think about him everyday even 11 years after.

After the driver went in, I never got the chance to speak to him again.

Title: Re: Assisted Dying/Suicide
Post by: ngb1066 on June 21, 2025, 01:02:PM
Thought you would be pro choice? 

Antoniazzi urged MPs to support her amendment to recognise "these women need care and support, and not criminalisation".

"Each one of these cases is a travesty, enabled by our outdated abortion law," she said.

"Originally passed by an all-male parliament elected by men alone, this Victorian law is increasingly used against vulnerable women and girls."

The Antoniazzi amendment won the support from 379 MPs, with 137 against.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2le12114j9o

I am generally pro choice and I agree with not prosecuting vulnerable women who make difficult choices.  I also have enormous sympathy with those who want to take advantage of the opportunity for assisted dying and I do not think partners should be criminalised for assisting with this.  However I believe there are very grave dangers and there is a great risk of vulnerable people being exploited.

 
Title: Re: Assisted Dying/Suicide
Post by: Roch on June 21, 2025, 01:05:PM
I don't trust Jo Cox's sister.
Title: Re: Assisted Dying/Suicide
Post by: Jane on June 21, 2025, 01:50:PM
I am generally pro choice and I agree with not prosecuting vulnerable women who make difficult choices.  I also have enormous sympathy with those who want to take advantage of the opportunity for assisted dying and I do not think partners should be criminalised for assisting with this.  However I believe there are very grave dangers and there is a great risk of vulnerable people being exploited.

 


I'm wondering how exploitation happens? The criteria appears to be that the patient is believed to be dying within six months and in charge of their mental faculties. Furthermore, two doctors have to agree. I don't agree with allowing people to suffer -we don't do that to animals- and I would rather make a hasty exit than suffer intolerable pain, My late partner, whilst not in pain, was dying. He had a DNR in place. The nurse asked my permission to administer something to 'help' him. As his brilliant mind was still fully alert I told her to have the conversation with him. The decision wasn't mine to make. He grasped the opportunity with both hands.
Title: Re: Assisted Dying/Suicide
Post by: Steve_uk on June 21, 2025, 02:19:PM
Thought you would be pro choice? 

Antoniazzi urged MPs to support her amendment to recognise "these women need care and support, and not criminalisation".

"Each one of these cases is a travesty, enabled by our outdated abortion law," she said.

"Originally passed by an all-male parliament elected by men alone, this Victorian law is increasingly used against vulnerable women and girls."

The Antoniazzi amendment won the support from 379 MPs, with 137 against.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2le12114j9o
It wasn't an all-male parliament in 1967. I can think of three female MPs off the top of my head: Margaret Thatcher, Gwyneth Dunwoody, Joan Lestor.

The Assisted Dying Bill is the thin end of the wedge. It may start with safeguards in place, but I can think of situations where the elderly may be exploited: immigrants who don't speak English signed off to die by two quack doctors of Pakistani heritage, individuals with the onset of dementia who feel they're a nuisance and under pressure to end their own lives.

One case stuck in my head all these years: https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2008/oct/17/law-switzerland

Police are right to probe such deaths. Judges will make the right decision.

As for women ending the life of a baby which is a viable entity outside the womb, the whole thing sickens me. It's women's lib gone mad.
Title: Re: Assisted Dying/Suicide
Post by: Cambridgecutie on June 21, 2025, 03:49:PM
Ive been in that position,  Yes it was the right decision and what my father wanted, but I carry that burden because,  out of all my brothers and sister and mother, no one else would make the phone call for the driver to go in.  So yes, it’s something I carry with me and it was part of my Counselling.  He was my work mate, my best friend and my father and I think about him everyday even 11 years after.

After the driver went in, I never got the chance to speak to him again.

I am sorry to hear about your personal position.

My view is the emphasis needs to be on the person suffering with less than 6 months to live and their right to choose. 
Title: Re: Assisted Dying/Suicide
Post by: Cambridgecutie on June 21, 2025, 03:50:PM
I am generally pro choice and I agree with not prosecuting vulnerable women who make difficult choices.  I also have enormous sympathy with those who want to take advantage of the opportunity for assisted dying and I do not think partners should be criminalised for assisting with this.  However I believe there are very grave dangers and there is a great risk of vulnerable people being exploited.

I echo Jane's post above. 
Title: Re: Assisted Dying/Suicide
Post by: Cambridgecutie on June 21, 2025, 03:51:PM
I don't trust Jo Cox's sister.

Do you need to?
Title: Re: Assisted Dying/Suicide
Post by: Cambridgecutie on June 21, 2025, 03:52:PM

I'm wondering how exploitation happens? The criteria appears to be that the patient is believed to be dying within six months and in charge of their mental faculties. Furthermore, two doctors have to agree. I don't agree with allowing people to suffer -we don't do that to animals- and I would rather make a hasty exit than suffer intolerable pain, My late partner, whilst not in pain, was dying. He had a DNR in place. The nurse asked my permission to administer something to 'help' him. As his brilliant mind was still fully alert I told her to have the conversation with him. The decision wasn't mine to make. He grasped the opportunity with both hands.

I could not have said it better. 
Title: Re: Assisted Dying/Suicide
Post by: Cambridgecutie on June 21, 2025, 04:00:PM
It wasn't an all-male parliament in 1967. I can think of three female MPs off the top of my head: Margaret Thatcher, Gwyneth Dunwoody, Joan Lestor.

The Assisted Dying Bill is the thin end of the wedge. It may start with safeguards in place, but I can think of situations where the elderly may be exploited: immigrants who don't speak English signed off to die by two quack doctors of Pakistani heritage, individuals with the onset of dementia who feel they're a nuisance and under pressure to end their own lives.

One case stuck in my head all these years: https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2008/oct/17/law-switzerland

Police are right to probe such deaths. Judges will make the right decision.

As for women ending the life of a baby which is a viable entity outside the womb, the whole thing sickens me. It's women's lib gone mad.

My post made reference to the Victorian era:

https://abortionrights.org.uk/history-of-abortion-law-in-the-uk/

Re assisted dying please refer to Jane's post which I echo.

Fetus is pre-birth.  Baby is post-birth.  A woman's choice.
Title: Re: Assisted Dying/Suicide
Post by: Hardy Boy on June 21, 2025, 04:20:PM
I think there will be legal challenges along the way, it was a small majority and the number of absentees would or could have had a different outcome.  The assisted dying legislation will impact workplace pensions and life assurance and obviously will impact premiums, the elderly could be coerced regarding pension pots and tax?  The elderly are more at risk for abuse and coercion and it’s not always spotted by health care professionals.
Title: Re: Assisted Dying/Suicide
Post by: Cambridgecutie on June 21, 2025, 04:36:PM
I think there will be legal challenges along the way, it was a small majority and the number of absentees would or could have had a different outcome.  The assisted dying legislation will impact workplace pensions and life assurance and obviously will impact premiums, the elderly could be coerced regarding pension pots and tax?  The elderly are more at risk for abuse and coercion and it’s not always spotted by health care professionals.

But we're only talking about a possible fast forward of 6 months.  How would this significantly affect pensions and life assurance?  Just potentially minor actuarial tweaks based on statistical data.
Title: Re: Assisted Dying/Suicide
Post by: Jane on June 21, 2025, 04:40:PM
I could not have said it better.


Thank-you for that.
Title: Re: Assisted Dying/Suicide
Post by: Steve_uk on June 21, 2025, 04:50:PM
My post made reference to the Victorian era:

https://abortionrights.org.uk/history-of-abortion-law-in-the-uk/

Re assisted dying please refer to Jane's post which I echo.

Fetus is pre-birth.  Baby is post-birth.  A woman's choice
.
It's one thing to destroy a foetus (especially for those of us who believe life begins at conception); it's quite another to kill a baby which has sufficiently developed to survive independently of the mother.

A woman's choice? At 28 weeks? At 30 weeks? At an even later stage? Come off it!
Title: Re: Assisted Dying/Suicide
Post by: Steve_uk on June 21, 2025, 04:53:PM

I'm wondering how exploitation happens? The criteria appears to be that the patient is believed to be dying within six months and in charge of their mental faculties. Furthermore, two doctors have to agree. I don't agree with allowing people to suffer -we don't do that to animals- and I would rather make a hasty exit than suffer intolerable pain, My late partner, whilst not in pain, was dying. He had a DNR in place. The nurse asked my permission to administer something to 'help' him. As his brilliant mind was still fully alert I told her to have the conversation with him. The decision wasn't mine to make. He grasped the opportunity with both hands.
I'm not sure what you mean, Jane. Do you mean the nurse smothered him with a pillow or had access to some potion which snuffed him out?
Title: Re: Assisted Dying/Suicide
Post by: Jane on June 21, 2025, 05:06:PM
I'm not sure what you mean, Jane. Do you mean the nurse smothered him with a pillow or had access to some potion which snuffed him out?


My euphemism, Steve, for whatever cocktail of drugs was used! Back in 1993, though, when my elderly and very sick father was reaching the end, the hospital phoned me, explained the situation to me, and asked me what I would like them to do! I gave them a couple of impossible options, ie curing him and/or knocking 20 years off his age, neither of which appeared possible so I asked could they allow him to die at peace and pain-free. They said they would administer morphine with the next round of injections. I'm eternally grateful. I can't bear the thought of anyone I love suffering when I'm powerless to ease their pain.
Title: Re: Assisted Dying/Suicida
Post by: Hardy Boy on June 21, 2025, 05:34:PM
But we're only talking about a possible fast forward of 6 months.  How would this significantly affect pensions and life assurance?  Just potentially minor actuarial tweaks based on statistical data.
I think insurers would have to clarify whether assisted deaths are treated the same as terminal illness or suicide, suicide is different and some will not pay out until 2 years of premiums have been paid.  It could lead to a thorough investigation by insurers and pensions to make sure there was no foul play or coercion?
Title: Re: Assisted Dying/Suicide
Post by: Steve_uk on June 21, 2025, 05:38:PM
Doctors cannot be sure how long someone with terminal cancer will live: https://www.google.com/search?q=lockerbie+suspect+released&sca_esv=c83668756a2998f4&sxsrf=AE3TifPwfjmCUGX6IDV9EptL8JrfxvLGHg%3A1750523879596&source=hp&ei=599WaPffIt-4hbIPiemNsAM&iflsig=AOw8s4IAAAAAaFbt9xy5yIExC2FEiI8YMWNk5JKF1AU_&ved=0ahUKEwi374zQ-YKOAxVfXEEAHYl0AzYQ4dUDCBk&uact=5&oq=lockerbie+suspect+released&gs_lp=Egdnd3Mtd2l6Ihpsb2NrZXJiaWUgc3VzcGVjdCByZWxlYXNlZEiSMlAAWIYucAB4AJABAJgBpwGgAZ8VqgEFMTQuMTK4AQPIAQD4AQGYAhKgAsEPwgIEECMYJ8ICChAuGIAEGCcYigXCAgoQIxiABBgnGIoFwgILEC4YgAQYkQIYigXCAggQLhiABBixA8ICChAAGIAEGEMYigXCAgsQLhiABBixAxiDAcICChAuGIAEGEMYigXCAg4QABiABBiRAhixAxiKBcICCxAAGIAEGLEDGIMBwgILEC4YgAQYsQMY1ALCAhEQLhiABBixAxjRAxiDARjHAcICBRAAGIAEwgINEC4YgAQYsQMYQxiKBcICDRAAGIAEGLEDGEMYigXCAhAQLhiABBhDGMcBGIoFGK8BwgIWEC4YgAQYsQMY0QMYQxiDARjHARiKBcICCxAAGIAEGJIDGIoFwgIQEC4YgAQYsQMYQxjUAhiKBcICCBAAGIAEGLEDwgILEC4YgAQYxwEYrwHCAg4QABiABBixAxiDARjJA8ICERAuGIAEGJECGLEDGNQCGIoFwgIIEC4YgAQY1ALCAg4QLhiABBiRAhjUAhiKBcICCxAAGIAEGJECGIoFwgIGEAAYFhgemAMAkgcENy4xMaAHxNYBsgcENy4xMbgHwQ_CBwYwLjE3LjHIBx8&sclient=gws-wiz
Title: Re: Assisted Dying/Suicide
Post by: Jane on June 21, 2025, 05:52:PM
Doctors cannot be sure how long someone with terminal cancer will live: https://www.google.com/search?q=lockerbie+suspect+released&sca_esv=c83668756a2998f4&sxsrf=AE3TifPwfjmCUGX6IDV9EptL8JrfxvLGHg%3A1750523879596&source=hp&ei=599WaPffIt-4hbIPiemNsAM&iflsig=AOw8s4IAAAAAaFbt9xy5yIExC2FEiI8YMWNk5JKF1AU_&ved=0ahUKEwi374zQ-YKOAxVfXEEAHYl0AzYQ4dUDCBk&uact=5&oq=lockerbie+suspect+released&gs_lp=Egdnd3Mtd2l6Ihpsb2NrZXJiaWUgc3VzcGVjdCByZWxlYXNlZEiSMlAAWIYucAB4AJABAJgBpwGgAZ8VqgEFMTQuMTK4AQPIAQD4AQGYAhKgAsEPwgIEECMYJ8ICChAuGIAEGCcYigXCAgoQIxiABBgnGIoFwgILEC4YgAQYkQIYigXCAggQLhiABBixA8ICChAAGIAEGEMYigXCAgsQLhiABBixAxiDAcICChAuGIAEGEMYigXCAg4QABiABBiRAhixAxiKBcICCxAAGIAEGLEDGIMBwgILEC4YgAQYsQMY1ALCAhEQLhiABBixAxjRAxiDARjHAcICBRAAGIAEwgINEC4YgAQYsQMYQxiKBcICDRAAGIAEGLEDGEMYigXCAhAQLhiABBhDGMcBGIoFGK8BwgIWEC4YgAQYsQMY0QMYQxiDARjHARiKBcICCxAAGIAEGJIDGIoFwgIQEC4YgAQYsQMYQxjUAhiKBcICCBAAGIAEGLEDwgILEC4YgAQYxwEYrwHCAg4QABiABBixAxiDARjJA8ICERAuGIAEGJECGLEDGNQCGIoFwgIIEC4YgAQY1ALCAg4QLhiABBiRAhjUAhiKBcICCxAAGIAEGJECGIoFwgIGEAAYFhgemAMAkgcENy4xMaAHxNYBsgcENy4xMbgHwQ_CBwYwLjE3LjHIBx8&sclient=gws-wiz


That's true Steve. All they can do is give an approximation. In the meantime, there's a patient who is suffering -and they must be suffering, or expecting such, to consider taking such a step. Personally, I don't want my life being gambled with. Who knows if I might have lived an extra week/month/year? It won't matter after I've left as I won't be around to find out!
Title: Re: Assisted Dying/Suicide
Post by: Hardy Boy on June 21, 2025, 05:55:PM
Doctors cannot be sure how long someone with terminal cancer will live: https://www.google.com/search?q=lockerbie+suspect+released&sca_esv=c83668756a2998f4&sxsrf=AE3TifPwfjmCUGX6IDV9EptL8JrfxvLGHg%3A1750523879596&source=hp&ei=599WaPffIt-4hbIPiemNsAM&iflsig=AOw8s4IAAAAAaFbt9xy5yIExC2FEiI8YMWNk5JKF1AU_&ved=0ahUKEwi374zQ-YKOAxVfXEEAHYl0AzYQ4dUDCBk&uact=5&oq=lockerbie+suspect+released&gs_lp=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_CBwYwLjE3LjHIBx8&sclient=gws-wiz
I agree Steve, take Ester Rantzen, a longtime supporter of assisted dying, was diagnosed with stage four lung cancer in 2023. She was thought to have just weeks to live, but last year started using a “wonder drug” that helped her survive against the odds.  She’s still alive!  I don’t think she’s well though?   We’re supposed to be advancing in health care, this might stop research into life saving treatments?
Title: Re: Assisted Dying/Suicide
Post by: Cambridgecutie on June 21, 2025, 06:52:PM

That's true Steve. All they can do is give an approximation. In the meantime, there's a patient who is suffering -and they must be suffering, or expecting such, to consider taking such a step. Personally, I don't want my life being gambled with. Who knows if I might have lived an extra week/month/year? It won't matter after I've left as I won't be around to find out!

I agree Jane.  Who wants to continue a 'life' in unimaginable pain with complete loss of dignity?   :(
Title: Re: Assisted Dying/Suicide
Post by: Roch on June 21, 2025, 06:52:PM
Do you need to?

There's a chance she is a plant and therefore her assisted dying efforts are driven by others with an ulterior motive.
Title: Re: Assisted Dying/Suicide
Post by: Jane on June 21, 2025, 07:08:PM
There's a chance she is a plant and therefore her assisted dying efforts are driven by others with an ulterior motive.


Such as, Roch? What would you choose for yourself if you learned you might have only 6 months to live, during which time you'd be in excruciating pain and have to rely on others to care for all your personal needs?
Title: Re: Assisted Dying/Suicide
Post by: Cambridgecutie on June 21, 2025, 07:32:PM
https://www.rspca.org.uk/whatwedo/care/rehabilitation/euthanasia
Title: Re: Assisted Dying/Suicide
Post by: Roch on June 21, 2025, 08:11:PM

Such as, Roch? What would you choose for yourself if you learned you might have only 6 months to live, during which time you'd be in excruciating pain and have to rely on others to care for all your personal needs?

Hello Jane. Hope you're enjoying the weather. Yes I am not against the concept of assisted dying. I just don't know whether the agenda was chosen by the MP or given to her.
Title: Re: Assisted Dying/Suicide
Post by: Jane on June 21, 2025, 08:46:PM
Hello Jane. Hope you're enjoying the weather. Yes I am not against the concept of assisted dying. I just don't know whether the agenda was chosen by the MP or given to her.


Hi back, Roch. Think I'm one of the less is more brigade when it comes to heat. I thought she spoke very passionately. I get the impression that she may not be entirely comfortable with the politics of politics. I support this more than the abortion bill. I'm not sure I can talk about that until I get my head round it. All I'll say is that, in my opinion, it's gone several weeks/months too far.
Title: Re: Assisted Dying/Suicide
Post by: Cambridgecutie on June 22, 2025, 09:12:AM
Pet owners have a legal and ethical responsibility to ensure their pets do not suffer unnecessarily. If a pet is in pain and distress, and a veterinarian determines that euthanasia is the most humane option, the owner is generally expected to consent to the procedure. Failure to do so, when the pet's suffering is deemed unnecessary, can lead to legal consequences under animal welfare laws.
Title: Re: Assisted Dying/Suicide
Post by: Hardy Boy on June 22, 2025, 09:40:AM
Pet owners have a legal and ethical responsibility to ensure their pets do not suffer unnecessarily. If a pet is in pain and distress, and a veterinarian determines that euthanasia is the most humane option, the owner is generally expected to consent to the procedure. Failure to do so, when the pet's suffering is deemed unnecessary, can lead to legal consequences under animal welfare laws.
The RSPCA denied claims by one of its former inspectors that it kills more healthy animals than necessary.  Dawn Aubrey-Ward has said large numbers of animals, particularly dogs, were put to sleep after being classed “unsuitable for rehoming”, a definition which could be widely drawn to include older animals, those needing veterinary care, dogs deemed “aggressive” or larger dogs which were “hard to home”.

A lot of animals are put to sleep because of financial reasons, vets charge through the roof now for treatment, insurance premiums are sky high for older dogs, it’s £100 now every time you go to see a vet, so the easy option is to put the animal to sleep.
Title: Re: Assisted Dying/Suicide
Post by: Hardy Boy on June 23, 2025, 07:22:AM
 I must say, I thought there was provisions in place for her daughter……… Mental capacity to make an informed decision free from coercion




As the mother of an adult with a learning disability I am petrified by the lack of protection for vulnerable people in the assisted suicide Bill.

You spend much of your life as a parent of a disabled child fighting for the necessary support, for the right school, the therapists, a specialist college. Every time you think you can take a breath and relax, the next milestone and hurdle awaits. You worry endlessly.

The biggest concern for every parent is what will happen when we are dead. Who will look after our 'child', who will understand their needs, care for them in the right way and facilitate their way through life?

But now, to add to that worry, is another enormous and unspeakable question – how can we stop them being killed?



https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-14836749/ROSA-MONCKTON-Ill-fight-Lords-against-breathtakingly-cruel-ignorant-assisted-suicide-Bill.html