Assisted Dying/Suicide

[Cambridgecutie]

Ive been in that position,  Yes it was the right decision and what my father wanted, but I carry that burden because,  out of all my brothers and sister and mother, no one else would make the phone call for the driver to go in.  So yes, it’s something I carry with me and it was part of my Counselling.  He was my work mate, my best friend and my father and I think about him everyday even 11 years after.

After the driver went in, I never got the chance to speak to him again.

I am sorry to hear about your personal position.

My view is the emphasis needs to be on the person suffering with less than 6 months to live and their right to choose. 

[Cambridgecutie]

I am generally pro choice and I agree with not prosecuting vulnerable women who make difficult choices.  I also have enormous sympathy with those who want to take advantage of the opportunity for assisted dying and I do not think partners should be criminalised for assisting with this.  However I believe there are very grave dangers and there is a great risk of vulnerable people being exploited.

I echo Jane's post above. 

[Cambridgecutie]

I don't trust Jo Cox's sister.

Do you need to?

[Cambridgecutie]

I'm wondering how exploitation happens? The criteria appears to be that the patient is believed to be dying within six months and in charge of their mental faculties. Furthermore, two doctors have to agree. I don't agree with allowing people to suffer -we don't do that to animals- and I would rather make a hasty exit than suffer intolerable pain, My late partner, whilst not in pain, was dying. He had a DNR in place. The nurse asked my permission to administer something to 'help' him. As his brilliant mind was still fully alert I told her to have the conversation with him. The decision wasn't mine to make. He grasped the opportunity with both hands.

I could not have said it better. 

[Cambridgecutie]

It wasn't an all-male parliament in 1967. I can think of three female MPs off the top of my head: Margaret Thatcher, Gwyneth Dunwoody, Joan Lestor.

The Assisted Dying Bill is the thin end of the wedge. It may start with safeguards in place, but I can think of situations where the elderly may be exploited: immigrants who don't speak English signed off to die by two quack doctors of Pakistani heritage, individuals with the onset of dementia who feel they're a nuisance and under pressure to end their own lives.

One case stuck in my head all these years: https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2008/oct/17/law-switzerland

Police are right to probe such deaths. Judges will make the right decision.

As for women ending the life of a baby which is a viable entity outside the womb, the whole thing sickens me. It's women's lib gone mad.

My post made reference to the Victorian era:

https://abortionrights.org.uk/history-of-abortion-law-in-the-uk/

Re assisted dying please refer to Jane's post which I echo.

Fetus is pre-birth.  Baby is post-birth.  A woman's choice.

[Hardy Boy]

I think there will be legal challenges along the way, it was a small majority and the number of absentees would or could have had a different outcome.  The assisted dying legislation will impact workplace pensions and life assurance and obviously will impact premiums, the elderly could be coerced regarding pension pots and tax?  The elderly are more at risk for abuse and coercion and it’s not always spotted by health care professionals.

[Cambridgecutie]

I think there will be legal challenges along the way, it was a small majority and the number of absentees would or could have had a different outcome.  The assisted dying legislation will impact workplace pensions and life assurance and obviously will impact premiums, the elderly could be coerced regarding pension pots and tax?  The elderly are more at risk for abuse and coercion and it’s not always spotted by health care professionals.

But we're only talking about a possible fast forward of 6 months.  How would this significantly affect pensions and life assurance?  Just potentially minor actuarial tweaks based on statistical data.

[Jane]

I could not have said it better.

Thank-you for that.

[Steve_uk]

My post made reference to the Victorian era:

https://abortionrights.org.uk/history-of-abortion-law-in-the-uk/

Re assisted dying please refer to Jane's post which I echo.

Fetus is pre-birth.  Baby is post-birth.  A woman's choice.

It's one thing to destroy a foetus (especially for those of us who believe life begins at conception); it's quite another to kill a baby which has sufficiently developed to survive independently of the mother.

A woman's choice? At 28 weeks? At 30 weeks? At an even later stage? Come off it!

[Steve_uk]

I'm wondering how exploitation happens? The criteria appears to be that the patient is believed to be dying within six months and in charge of their mental faculties. Furthermore, two doctors have to agree. I don't agree with allowing people to suffer -we don't do that to animals- and I would rather make a hasty exit than suffer intolerable pain, My late partner, whilst not in pain, was dying. He had a DNR in place. The nurse asked my permission to administer something to 'help' him. As his brilliant mind was still fully alert I told her to have the conversation with him. The decision wasn't mine to make. He grasped the opportunity with both hands.

I'm not sure what you mean, Jane. Do you mean the nurse smothered him with a pillow or had access to some potion which snuffed him out?

[Jane]

I'm not sure what you mean, Jane. Do you mean the nurse smothered him with a pillow or had access to some potion which snuffed him out?

My euphemism, Steve, for whatever cocktail of drugs was used! Back in 1993, though, when my elderly and very sick father was reaching the end, the hospital phoned me, explained the situation to me, and asked me what I would like them to do! I gave them a couple of impossible options, ie curing him and/or knocking 20 years off his age, neither of which appeared possible so I asked could they allow him to die at peace and pain-free. They said they would administer morphine with the next round of injections. I'm eternally grateful. I can't bear the thought of anyone I love suffering when I'm powerless to ease their pain.

[Hardy Boy]

But we're only talking about a possible fast forward of 6 months.  How would this significantly affect pensions and life assurance?  Just potentially minor actuarial tweaks based on statistical data.

I think insurers would have to clarify whether assisted deaths are treated the same as terminal illness or suicide, suicide is different and some will not pay out until 2 years of premiums have been paid.  It could lead to a thorough investigation by insurers and pensions to make sure there was no foul play or coercion?

[Steve_uk]

Doctors cannot be sure how long someone with terminal cancer will live: https://www.google.com/search?q=lockerbie+suspect+released&sca_esv=c83668756a2998f4&sxsrf=AE3TifPwfjmCUGX6IDV9EptL8JrfxvLGHg%3A1750523879596&source=hp&ei=599WaPffIt-4hbIPiemNsAM&iflsig=AOw8s4IAAAAAaFbt9xy5yIExC2FEiI8YMWNk5JKF1AU_&ved=0ahUKEwi374zQ-YKOAxVfXEEAHYl0AzYQ4dUDCBk&uact=5&oq=lockerbie+suspect+released&gs_lp=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_CBwYwLjE3LjHIBx8&sclient=gws-wiz

[Jane]

Doctors cannot be sure how long someone with terminal cancer will live: https://www.google.com/search?q=lockerbie+suspect+released&sca_esv=c83668756a2998f4&sxsrf=AE3TifPwfjmCUGX6IDV9EptL8JrfxvLGHg%3A1750523879596&source=hp&ei=599WaPffIt-4hbIPiemNsAM&iflsig=AOw8s4IAAAAAaFbt9xy5yIExC2FEiI8YMWNk5JKF1AU_&ved=0ahUKEwi374zQ-YKOAxVfXEEAHYl0AzYQ4dUDCBk&uact=5&oq=lockerbie+suspect+released&gs_lp=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_CBwYwLjE3LjHIBx8&sclient=gws-wiz

That's true Steve. All they can do is give an approximation. In the meantime, there's a patient who is suffering -and they must be suffering, or expecting such, to consider taking such a step. Personally, I don't want my life being gambled with. Who knows if I might have lived an extra week/month/year? It won't matter after I've left as I won't be around to find out!

[Hardy Boy]

Doctors cannot be sure how long someone with terminal cancer will live: https://www.google.com/search?q=lockerbie+suspect+released&sca_esv=c83668756a2998f4&sxsrf=AE3TifPwfjmCUGX6IDV9EptL8JrfxvLGHg%3A1750523879596&source=hp&ei=599WaPffIt-4hbIPiemNsAM&iflsig=AOw8s4IAAAAAaFbt9xy5yIExC2FEiI8YMWNk5JKF1AU_&ved=0ahUKEwi374zQ-YKOAxVfXEEAHYl0AzYQ4dUDCBk&uact=5&oq=lockerbie+suspect+released&gs_lp=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_CBwYwLjE3LjHIBx8&sclient=gws-wiz

I agree Steve, take Ester Rantzen, a longtime supporter of assisted dying, was diagnosed with stage four lung cancer in 2023. She was thought to have just weeks to live, but last year started using a “wonder drug” that helped her survive against the odds.  She’s still alive!  I don’t think she’s well though?   We’re supposed to be advancing in health care, this might stop research into life saving treatments?