JB petition now has almost ten thousand signatures.

[ngb1066]

Thankyou for that NGB, I hadn't known about his row with the CT----I wonder what that was all about ?

I believe it was about access to case papers.

[Adam]

If I was in Nevill's situation, I would just gain control of the rifle. At what I thought was the appropriate moment. I like my sleep & being kept awake would make me grumpy. The only thing that would worry me was if Sheila was holding a shot gun.

There would be less than a 1% chance of failing to gain control of the rifle. That would result in Sheila being free to committ the massacre. However Bamber would know nothing about this until he arrived for work the following morning, as there is no reason he would be phoned.

[Jane]

Nevill would do it at the right time. Unlikely Sheila would get a shot away. If she did, it may miss or just hit Nevill in the torso. Either way, Nevill's got the rifle back & has no or a small injury. It was a rifle for shooting rabbits.

Nevill will protect himself, his wife, grand children & Sheila. He also needed to get some sleep.

So I wonder how such an ineffective fire arm could have been competent enough to kill 5 people? In your make believe scenario, Nevill may well have thought to protect his wife and grandchildren (so we needn't concern ourselves with the technicalities of how he'd have managed to wrest the gun away from Sheila, presumably using both hands in some grim tug of war, before she pulled the trigger ...................and ended up getting killed in the process. Still, in fairy stories anything and everything becomes possible.

[Adam]

So I wonder how such an ineffective fire arm could have been competent enough to kill 5 people? In your make believe scenario, Nevill may well have thought to protect his wife and grandchildren (so we needn't concern ourselves with the technicalities of how he'd have managed to wrest the gun away from Sheila, presumably using both hands in some grim tug of war, before she pulled the trigger ...................and ended up getting killed in the process. Still, in fairy stories anything and everything becomes possible.

Well it took 8 bullets & a severe beating to kill Nevill. Six bullets in the head from close range.

Nevill would not be concerned if Sheila was holding a rifle used for shooting rabbits. He would have taken it back. Then perhaps offerred to make a cup of coffee.

[Jane]

If I was in Nevill's situation, I would just gain control of the rifle. At what I thought was the appropriate moment. I like my sleep & being kept awake would make me grumpy. The only thing that would worry me was if Sheila was holding a shot gun.

There would be less than a 1% chance of failing to gain control of the rifle. That would result in Sheila being free to committ the massacre. However Bamber would know nothing about this until he arrived for work the following morning, as there is no reason he would be phoned.

Well, you know what they say, Adam. You need to walk a mile in another's shoes to know what it's like to be them, so I guess you'd need to be in a room with someone intent on your death pointing a loaded gun at you. I somehow think you might have a little more than sleep on your mind and I can't be totally certain that you'd show disregard for the fact that the fire arm was a rifle not a shotgun. The situation sounds -FEELS- like the stuff of nightmares to me...................and poor Nevill did actually have to go through it, albeit, the shooter was different.

[Adam]

So I wonder how such an ineffective fire arm could have been competent enough to kill 5 people? In your make believe scenario, Nevill may well have thought to protect his wife and grandchildren (so we needn't concern ourselves with the technicalities of how he'd have managed to wrest the gun away from Sheila, presumably using both hands in some grim tug of war, before she pulled the trigger ...................and ended up getting killed in the process. Still, in fairy stories anything and everything becomes possible.

Not sure why there would be a 'tug of war'. Nevill was 9 inches taller & 8 stone heavier than Sheila. He was also a man & fully fit. A few seconds should do it.

[Jane]

Well it took 8 bullets & a severe beating to kill Nevill. Six bullets in the head from close range.

Nevill would not be concerned if Sheila was holding a rifle used for shooting rabbits. He would have taken it back. Then perhaps offerred to make a cup of coffee.

Then I guess the best we can hope for him is that he was equally sanguine when faced with Jeremy holding the same firearm, fit for no purpose other than shooting rabbits.

[Jane]

Not sure why there would be a 'tug of war'. Nevill was 9 inches taller & 8 stone heavier than Sheila. He was also a man & fully fit. A few seconds should do it.

It would have taken less that "a few seconds" for a bullet to fell him enough to make him vulnerable. He may not have been close enough to the barrel to have had contact with it, by the time he was, if, in your imaginary scenario, he did, it's possible that another bullet would have found it's mark.

[Adam]

A fully fit Nevill had no option but to tackle Sheila. To protect himself, his family and Sheila.

Sheila being very weak, un cordinated & with no rifle experience would have made Nevill confident of quickly negating her, so he can go back to bed. Sheila also had a rifle for shooting rabbits, rather than a shot gun.

At that time of night Nevill was never going ring someone 3 miles away to leave a message on his answering machine. 

[David1819]

You know, the ability to bear grudges is a particularly ugly trait, David (snip)

I don't bear any grudges against anyone. I just find the behaviour of you two utterly pointless and noxious. The root cause of it being PH only means his deceit is still reverberating on the forum FIVE years later. Enough is enough it has to end. It does not achieve anything.

What was the spirit of the forum like before PH joined and left?  They say psychopaths leave a trail of devastation and chaos and he has done just that. Having retrospectively read the posts by "Mason Doyle" I must admit he came across as very affable nice guy to everyone. Yet in private communications it was very different story, threatening and abusing at least half a dozen members here. He sounds like the classic psychopath/narcissist we all hear about.

Just for the record I have had Caroline on ignore for the past 20 days (partly for the sake of my sanity) . Any replies I have given her since then is a result of me browsing the forum without logging in and unfortunately seeing what ever she decided to dish up on me for that moment. If she still insists on me lying to NGB for what ever reason then NGB can always summon me to explain myself if he feels lied to. 

[ngb1066]

PH was obnoxious and did great harm to the forum.  We now know what he was and as Caroline has pointed out his career is now over.  That is very good, he was odious and he lied constantly.  We will not see him again.

[Caroline]

I don't bear any grudges against anyone. I just find the behaviour of you two utterly pointless and noxious. The root cause of it being PH only means his deceit is still reverberating on the forum FIVE years later. Enough is enough it has to end. It does not achieve anything.

What was the spirit of the forum like before PH joined and left?  They say psychopaths leave a trail of devastation and chaos and he has done just that. Having retrospectively read the posts by "Mason Doyle" I must admit he came across as very affable nice guy to everyone. Yet in private communications it was very different story, threatening and abusing at least half a dozen members here. He sounds like the classic psychopath/narcissist we all hear about.

Just for the record I have had Caroline on ignore for the past 20 days (partly for the sake of my sanity) . Any replies I have given her since then is a result of me browsing the forum without logging in and unfortunately seeing what ever she decided to dish up on me for that moment. If she still insists on me lying to NGB for what ever reason then NGB can always summon me to explain myself if he feels lied to. 

The deceit is from you and keep banging on about PH isn't taking the heat off you. You most certainly do bear grudges which is evident from your childish method of posting - PH has nothing to do with myself or April and you have been told there were doubts behind the scenes long before PH decided to write from a guilty perspective or are you calling Maggie a liar? You weren't even a member then so know nothing about it! You sound like a complete fool David, especially your recent pathetic excuse for your conflicting posts.

PH was banned as a member here before you even joined and as such, what went on has sweet FA to do with you. You're one of those people who like to know the far end of a fart. Collecting various bits of info to use on someone later down the line. Don't concern yourself with him his impact didn't involve you so your attempts to sound affronted are incredulous. Lets face it, you only really mention him to stir the shit.

Of course you have had me on ignore David, you ignored the fact that you made a HUGE gaff and I called you out on it, you took days to think of an excuse and when you finally provided one, it was laughable! I certainly believe that you lied, that's evident from the two conflicting accounts - you either lied to NGB or you lied to Scipio - I know which on I believe. I think you thought it might inspire NGB to tell you more about PH but he's probably got you sussed out and has better things to do than quench your thirst for gossip. 

[Caroline]

The root cause of it being PH only means his deceit is still reverberating on the forum FIVE years later. Enough is enough it has to end. It does not achieve anything.

And yet here you are, posting regularly about the man and mentioning his at the drop of a hat!!  . Thing is, if YOU didn't keep bringing him up, no one would give him a second thought. Twit!

[David1819]

PH was obnoxious and did great harm to the forum.  We now know what he was and as Caroline has pointed out his career is now over.  That is very good, he was odious and he lied constantly.  We will not see him again.

And hopefully he wont be doing this again either. (I hope she got her money back) 

[Jane]

I don't bear any grudges against anyone. I just find the behaviour of you two utterly pointless and noxious. The root cause of it being PH only means his deceit is still reverberating on the forum FIVE years later. Enough is enough it has to end. It does not achieve anything.

What was the spirit of the forum like before PH joined and left?  They say psychopaths leave a trail of devastation and chaos and he has done just that. Having retrospectively read the posts by "Mason Doyle" I must admit he came across as very affable nice guy to everyone. Yet in private communications it was very different story, threatening and abusing at least half a dozen members here. He sounds like the classic psychopath/narcissist we all hear about.

Just for the record I have had Caroline on ignore for the past 20 days (partly for the sake of my sanity) . Any replies I have given her since then is a result of me browsing the forum without logging in and unfortunately seeing what ever she decided to dish up on me for that moment. If she still insists on me lying to NGB for what ever reason then NGB can always summon me to explain myself if he feels lied to. 

So it has to end, does it, David? Then bloody well end it!! ALL of this is down to you. You'd lost your sanity -at the very least, all sense of perspective, well before "the past 20 days", which have been about you trying to twist your way out of a situation of your own making and at each turn revealing yourself as the sneaky, lying rat you are, and just for the record, there's probably no point in NGB "summoning" you to explain yourself because chances are it would be yet another tissue of lies, probably in attempt to put the blame on Caroline and me.

Exactly WHAT is with your obsession with PH? You drag up his name on a daily basis -perhaps it's the only stick you have to poke Caroline with?- but now it appears you weren't even here when it happened!! I'd actually forgotten that he turned up as "Mason Doyle". As for the "trail of devastation and chaos" you accuse him of leaving -and interesting that only NOW do you recognize that "he came across as a very affable and nice guy to everyone"- you're certainly doing your level best to continue it -because, basically, you've involved yourself in a situation which has SOD ALL to do with you in order to take spiteful digs at Caroline, whose knowledge of this case way outstrips your own and I'll hazard a guess that knowing it gnaws away at you on a daily basis, and yet you have the temerity to claim you don't bear grudges! Mmm? All of which suggests that, in your mind -no one else's- PH has become HUGE, the obsession is yours. It's beginning, as you admit to needing to save your sanity, to sound as if it would be a good idea for you to take a break to sort yourself out. Whatever YOU may feel has been "dished out" to you, is no more than your just desserts.