Sherlock has solved the case at last ...

[lookout]

And you have proof, do you, that a psychotic holds onto thoughts they have during one attack and keeps them in reserve until the next? I see nothing logical in that, especially when the patient is on medication.

A psychotic does hold on to their thoughts,that's what " drives " them in their next and other future attacks. June's description of Sheila being the " Devils child ", then Sheila emulating her mother concerning her twins,was something that had been deep-seated in Sheila's mind/thoughts.  This,whether on medication or not.

[Kaldin]

You and I were never meant to see any images that show the stain under the bible.  For all intents and purposes - it didn't exist in theory (and it ceased to exist in real terms when the carpets were hastily burned outside by police).

I don't think we will ever know what happened in entirety.  It's possible and it's been suggested.  Sheila being rolled over in to recovery position has been suggested - hence the bloodstain on the carpet.  Imagine being a mamber of the TFG?  You leave the scene and the next time you are shown the scene - it doesn't look anything like the scene you vacated before SOCO and detectives took over.

But how could an officer manage to fire the gun under her chin by mistake?

[lookout]

Quote from: scipio_usmc on July 30, 2015, 07:05:PM

   
How was the Bible placed on that blood stain we see in the photos when the blood was still wet and leave no corresponding stain on the Bible?

We also don't know if it was Sheila's blood on the Bible, and we don't know if it was Sheila's blood on the floor.

I rather think it was June's blood on the Bible,the same as they were her droplets of blood on the carpet. I thought it had been established that it had been June's blood anyway.

Clearly,the " battle " that had gone on that night had been between the two women looking at the state of June's body.

[Caroline]

You and I were never meant to see any images that show the stain under the bible. For all intents and purposes - it didn't exist in theory (and it ceased to exist in real terms when the carpets were hastily burned outside by police).

I don't think we will ever know what happened in entirety.  It's possible and it's been suggested.  Sheila being rolled over in to recovery position has been suggested - hence the bloodstain on the carpet.  Imagine being a mamber of the TFG?  You leave the scene and the next time you are shown the scene - it doesn't look anything like the scene you vacated before SOCO and detectives took over.

And why is that? It didn't exist in theory? Not sure what you mean by that - we can see the stain on pictures released to the public domain or we wouldn't be talking about it now. Carpets were taken for analysis - they weren't all burned!

Two people wondered about the crime scene - TWO! And with all that was going on, that's not unusual.

[lookout]

Did we ever get the final analysis on the many pieces of carpet ( which AE had complained about having been cut out ) ?

[Jane]

A psychotic does hold on to their thoughts,that's what " drives " them in their next and other future attacks. June's description of Sheila being the " Devils child ", then Sheila emulating her mother concerning her twins,was something that had been deep-seated in Sheila's mind/thoughts.  This,whether on medication or not.

I will concur that deep rooted thoughts never disappear, but "next" episodes aren't guaranteed and there's no proof of Sheila suffering a third.

[Kaldin]

Did we ever get the final analysis on the many pieces of carpet ( which AE had complained about having been cut out ) ?

They all seemed to contain June's blood I think. I don't remember any where Nevill's blood had been found, and I don't know if they included the bit with the large stain under the Bible.

[Stephanie]

The police placed the bible over the stain, after it had dried, in an attempt to conceal the stain during crime scene photography.   This led to members of the raid team questioning the position of the bible - when later shown crime scene images at a briefing.  We dont even know if the TFG knew there was a stain on the carpet (i.e. if the second shot was accidental while SOCO were handling the rifle - TFG may not have been present). Nobody was probably meant to see that stain on the carpet.  It has come to light because of the tenacity and rule bending of people like Mike Tesko.

The police placed the bible over the stain, after it had dried, in an attempt to conceal the stain during crime scene photography.   This led to members of the raid team questioning the position of the bible - when later shown crime scene images at a briefing.  We dont even know if the TFG knew there was a stain on the carpet (i.e. if the second shot was accidental while SOCO were handling the rifle - TFG may not have been present). Nobody was probably meant to see that stain on the carpet.  It has come to light because of the tenacity and rule bending of people like Mike Tesko.

What people like Mike have shown us is how they have allowed themselves the uncomfortable luxury of changing their minds regardless of the trail of contradictions left behind. You call it "tenacity and rule bending" I call it self delusion.

Will be interesting to see what Sherlock has to say regarding your conspiracy theory Roch 

[Stephanie]

And why is that? It didn't exist in theory? Not sure what you mean by that - we can see the stain on pictures released to the public domain or we wouldn't be talking about it now. Carpets were taken for analysis - they weren't all burned!

Two people wondered about the crime scene - TWO! And with all that was going on, that's not unusual.

It most certainly isn't Caroline - SH's case files showed the same/similar inconsistencies and irregularities as Bambers.

[Kaldin]

And why is that? It didn't exist in theory? Not sure what you mean by that - we can see the stain on pictures released to the public domain or we wouldn't be talking about it now. Carpets were taken for analysis - they weren't all burned!

Two people wondered about the crime scene - TWO! And with all that was going on, that's not unusual.

Two is enough surely. Was it the two who the first into that room? Later on, I daresay nobody knew exactly how the crime scene looked when it was first seen.

[Stephanie]

I have no evidence Sheila washed herself ...

But it explains why she was clean ...

And it fits with the blood stains on Psalm 51 and the washing away of sin ...

I can see no reason for the Police altering the crime scene - but whatever they did for whatever reason I think that it is irrelevant to the case ...

It is possible DC Jones was the one to turn Julie initially on the suggestion of the relatives  ...

I do not know much about DCS Ainsley's involvement - but it is very possible ...

I think you are right about Robert and Anne - I think she is very likely psychopathic - how could she have moved in the farm with her children ? - it is very far from normal behaviour and suggests psychopathy heavily to me - Robert convinced himself through fear, prejudice, greed and arrogance


Great post Roch - you have certainly given me food for thought 

Many people move into houses where people have been murderered or died; doesn't make them psychopathic for doing so.

At least if you are going to make these claims about AE, back them up with evidence.

There's nothing great about Roch's post or indeed posts; just yet more conspiracy theories.

[Kaldin]

Many people move into houses where people have been murderered or died; doesn't make them psychopathic for doing so.

At least if you are going to make these claims about AE, back them up with evidence.

There's nothing great about Roch's post or indeed posts; just yet more conspiracy theories.

It doesn't make her a psychopath, I agree, but I would say that she possible lacked sensitivity. She went to the farmhouse on her own after the murders, which a lot of people wouldn't do, and she was rather puzzled that Jeremy didn't want to go there or live in the house after his family had been murdered there. I don't think that would be surprising to anyone usually.

[Stephanie]

The relatives did not like Jeremy at all for the reasons you say ...

DC Jones did not like Jeremy for the reasons you say ...

Julie hated Jeremy for different reasons ...

They got together and convinced themselves that Jeremy had done it ...

It was all too easy - they all wanted to believe it ...

Confirmation bias can be a very misleading thing - they all suffered from it because they really did not like him at all ...

People tend to believe what they want to believe - it is even easier if you are going to become rich instead of poor if your hunch is right - which is the position the relatives were in ...

Very well put.

You should read up on the backfire effect

"The Misconception: When your beliefs are challenged with facts, you alter your opinions and incorporate the new information into your thinking. The Truth: When your deepest convictions are challenged by contradictory evidence, your beliefs get stronger.

[Jane]

It doesn't make her a psychopath, I agree, but I would say that she possible lacked sensitivity. She went to the farmhouse on her own after the murders, which a lot of people wouldn't do, and she was rather puzzled that Jeremy didn't want to go there or live in the house after his family had been murdered there. I don't think that would be surprising to anyone usually.

Hah! There are plenty who lack sensitivity. They call themselves realists. I'd say Ann was one such. I don't know much about Pam, but from what I've been told about Grannie Speakman and RWB, Ann is likely to be a chip off two very insensitive blocks. In fairness to her, it was several years before she moved into WHF.

[Kaldin]

Hah! There are plenty who lack sensitivity. They call themselves realists. I'd say Ann was one such. I don't know much about Pam, but from what I've been told about Grannie Speakman and RWB, Ann is likely to be a chip off two very insensitive blocks. In fairness to her, it was several years before she moved into WHF.

Yes, but it was odd how she was surprised that Jeremy didn't want to live at the farm, and how she went there on her own a few days after the murders. As you say though, plenty of people lack sensitivity and are not squeamish.