Sherlock has solved the case at last ...

[sherlock]

You really are floundering now, aren't you. You brag about having found the answer, but you seem to have no idea what the question is. You make up stories about biblical texts being the key, without having a door in which to insert it, then you do a mix and match with her two periods of illness and present them as being one. NOW after absolute certainty, you've resorted to "Maybe's" in the above post. At least that's more honest.

The question is who killed the Bamber family is it not Jane ? - so no confusion there 

I did not make up Psalm 51 - or put the blood stains on it ...

Read the link Steve put up again if you still have not got Psalm 51's relevance to murder - it really is beyond debate ...

I maintain her delusional thoughts of harming her children and her other delusions are very relevant - it is bizzare you suggest otherwise in my opinion ...

My "maybe" does not relate to my opinion that Sheila did it ...

It was a theory on the underlying emotions of psychosis - but it does not bit my opinion that Sheila did it in any doubt whatsoever ...

[Roch]

It was all too easy - they all wanted to believe it ...

Confirmation bias can be a very misleading thing - they all suffered from it because they really did not like him at all ...

People tend to believe what they want to believe - it is even easier if you are going to become rich instead of poor if your hunch is right - which is the position the relatives were in ...

Very well put.

[Stephanie]

After a very long time considering this case I have now worked out exactly what happened ...

I have considered every possibility with a very open mind indeed ....

There is only one scenario that stands up to scrutiny ....

Here it is .....


Sheila was reading Psalm 51 because she had just murdered her family ....

She wanted to be forgiven by God for the murders ...

That is why she had washed herself ....

It was Sheila that moved the gun that WPC Jeaves saw in the window ....

It was Sheila that was seen moving in the other window ...

Sheila killed herself after the Police were outside the farm - that is why her blood was still wet ...

David Boutflour (and possibly others) planted the silencer ....

The relatives put Julie up to the false confession - which is why she wrongly repeats things AE told her ...

DC Jones was more than happy to coach Julie - he was up for noble cause corruption ....

The relatives did it because they thought Jeremy was guilty and to avoid impending financial ruin ...

This is why Robert Boutflour lied to the jury about the inheritance ....

I have no doubt all the relatives and Sheila and DC Jones were convinced that Jeremy did it ....

But he did not - he is 100% innocent of any involvement in this crime .....


Now I have satisfied myself without any doubt what happened it is time for stage 2 ....

Stage 2 is I am going to prove to the world exactly what happened ....

Jeremy Bamber needs to be released right now .....

What is the evidence that she washed herself?

If she fired both of her own shots, why would police be fiddling with her crime scene prior to photography; moving bible and rifle etc?

Could DS Jones have been the medium for this - i.e. he was somewhat forearmed by the relatives, when pursuing Mugford?

Likewise DCS Ainsley was more than happy to appease 'Bobby'.  The fact he (Ainsley) already had a junior officer in place (Jones) who hated Jeremy must have been a godsend

Led by Robert and Ann, they created such belief because it was what they wanted to believe. They fed off their own fears and arrogant interpretations.

I think Ann was more concerned that he was sent down, regardless of whether he did it or not.

Why did the police change tact from murder/suicide to murder?

Are you suggesting Jones, Ainsley, Robert and Ann all conspired to fit up an innocent man so that the family could benefit from the inheritance and the CCRC, COA and all others involved over the years have conspired along with them for all this time? You'll next be claiming they were given back handlers to keep up the facade 

Surely you can see how far fetched this theory is?

I don't believe Jeremy Bamber is guilty based on Robert and Ann's fears, beliefs or arrogance. There's a wealth of other material pointing to Bambers guilt and in turn SC innocence.

[sherlock]

I have no evidence Sheila washed herself ...

But it explains why she was clean ...

And it fits with the blood stains on Psalm 51 and the washing away of sin ...

I can see no reason for the Police altering the crime scene - but whatever they did for whatever reason I think that it is irrelevant to the case ...

It is possible DC Jones was the one to turn Julie initially on the suggestion of the relatives  ...

I do not know much about DCS Ainsley's involvement - but it is very possible ...

I think you are right about Robert and Anne - I think she is very likely psychopathic - how could she have moved in the farm with her children ? - it is very far from normal behaviour and suggests psychopathy heavily to me - Robert convinced himself through fear, prejudice, greed and arrogance


Great post Roch - you have certainly given me food for thought 

[Stephanie]

The relatives did not like Jeremy at all for the reasons you say ...

DC Jones did not like Jeremy for the reasons you say ...

Julie hated Jeremy for different reasons ...

They got together and convinced themselves that Jeremy had done it ...

It was all too easy - they all wanted to believe it ...

Confirmation bias can be a very misleading thing - they all suffered from it because they really did not like him at all ...

People tend to believe what they want to believe - it is even easier if you are going to become rich instead of poor if your hunch is right - which is the position the relatives were in ...

Very well put.

Utter rubbish!

There was nothing easy about it at all! If there was, the investigation would have remained a murder/suicide. The police had everything to lose and nothing to gain by admitting they had made a mistake.

A jury convicted Bamber not the relatives. He had ample time to mount his defence and make the claims you and Sherlock have. He didn't! Why not?

People tend to believe what they want to believe..  Especially if it means they save face and do not have to admit they have been wrong for years on end, been duped by a con man and made a public spectacle of themselves in the process..

[Stephanie]

I have no evidence Sheila washed herself ...

But it explains why she was clean ...

And it fits with the blood stains on Psalm 51 and the washing away of sin ...

I can see no reason for the Police altering the crime scene - but whatever they did for whatever reason I think that it is irrelevant to the case ...

And as scipio pointed out "dead people don't move"

I do deal in facts.

Fact Sheila could not have killed herself she was murdered.

Fact after Sheila was dead the killer opened and closed the Bible in Sheila's blood and ultimately stuck it in a pool of blood that formed after she died.  I don't believe Sheila was playing with the Bible as someone shot her and more importantly I don't believe that after she was dead, after the killer moved her flat and stuck the gun on her and then her blood flow changed and a pool of blood formed on the floor that she could have been the one who then placed the Bible in such pool of blood because dead people don't move.

[Stephanie]

I have no evidence Sheila washed herself ...

But it explains why she was clean ...

And it fits with the blood stains on Psalm 51 and the washing away of sin ...

Aren't you forgetting this?

I am not trying to "lay the massacre at Sheilas feet".

I quote from my first post in this thread :

"Either Sheila picked the Bible up after killing someone and was using Psalm 51 to help her pray for God's forgiveness   -  OR

Someone wanted it to look like that is what happened ...
That person would have to have a VERY good religous understanding"


I am saying that maybe Sheila did it - if not then WHOEVER framed her for the murders had a very good knowledge of the Bible ...

Or it was nothing more than coincidence, and holds no relevance - as Caroline pointed out

[sherlock]

Aren't you forgetting this?

Or it was nothing more than coincidence, and holds no relevance - as Caroline pointed out

No I remember 

Can you not work out what happened ?

I reached my conclusion that it was definitely Sheila today !!!

It happened since the post you quoted 

[Stephanie]

When did you rule AE out and why?

I am amazed that none of you have actually considered Anne Eaton a serious suspect for having committed the murders herself ...

The Police statements said that just before they entered the kitchen they saw a female body and a male body - if the female body was not Sheila (which I do no believe it was) then who was it ?

To me one of the few certain facts in this case is that David Boutflour (and at least one other) set Jeremy Bamber up with the silencer ....

What his motives were I cannot be sure ...

If Anne did it she could have simply convinced David and Julie Mugford that Jeremy had done it and persuaded them both not to let him get away with it ...

You need to realise that some respectable appearing people would definitely shoot a few people if their lifestyle was threatened to the point that they were going to slip into poverty themselves - a lot of people simply cant handle that prospect and actually don't care what they have to do to avoid it ....

The same questions apply to Bamber

Jane -  I do not have a "desire to find a conspiracy at all costs" - I in fact have a desire to "find the truth at all ceosts".
As stated to you before I think the theory that Jeremy Bamber is guilty as charged is very likely - in fact it is probably the most likely theory.

I am however to some extent researching or at least considering every theory that anyone has posted on these forums (those that I have read anyway) ...

You say that long term members can recognise BS - It is a shame not one of you challenged the lady WHEN she posted about being threatened by the Essex monastery lot - it might have saved me believing it had you done so at the time - when I myself was new to the forum ...

You use the word veracity in relation to myself.
Like many words the word veracity has 2 meanings.
One is honesty and if you are challenging my personal honesty in this case then all I can say is you are mistaken.
The second meaning of veracity is accuracy - and I fully admit that in relation to the monastery theory my posts and comments should have been checked more thoroughly before I commented on them and I should have been more careful that the words I used were more accurate - I fully admit it I have not been up to my normal standards of accuracy on this theory and for that I apologise to everybody ...

In mitigation I can only say that apart from briefly years ago I have never believed there is any possible truth in the monastery theory so I have not researched or dealt with it properly - again I apologise ...
And the way I have posted on the monastery theory recently probably does leave a lot to be desired - once again I apologise - but please believe my error in this regard may have been for whatever reasons (did I find myself in a hole because I had taken a post on here as fact and then I had to keep digging ?) - but would I deliberately post something dishonest on these forums ? that is something I could not do - it is too serious a matter as we all know to do that.

I know most people agree with most facts in this case and look forward to a day when we can all agree on all the facts - I hope we can help each other in that regard ...

I like many others have always felt that there is more to this case that meets the eye - but I perfectly accept that we may well be mistaken about this - maybe the truth was exposed in full by the jury ...

But if it was not then that bothers me A LOT ...

[Stephanie]

No I remember 

Can you not work out what happened ?

I reached my conclusion that it was definitely Sheila today !!!

It happened since the post you quoted 

Actually I personally don't consider Essex Police having framed Jeremy as a possibility ...

Why would they ?

What happened?

How and why did you rule the others out and Sheila in?

Will you be changing your conclusion re Sheila in the near future because let's face it, you do appear to do this often.

[Jane]

I would assume that to be the case very often ...

Do any other forum members know how this type of thing works ?

So your flaky theory is built on a bible text that you have no proof of Sheila being cognisant of and the belief -with nothing to back it up- that psychotics 'store' their delusions/hallucinations until their next episode? Hmm!

[Kaldin]

Quote from: scipio_usmc on July 30, 2015, 07:05:PM

   

Fact after Sheila was dead the killer opened and closed the Bible in Sheila's blood and ultimately stuck it in a pool of blood that formed after she died.  I don't believe Sheila was playing with the Bible as someone shot her and more importantly I don't believe that after she was dead, after the killer moved her flat and stuck the gun on her and then her blood flow changed and a pool of blood formed on the floor that she could have been the one who then placed the Bible in such pool of blood because dead people don't move.

How was the Bible placed on that blood stain we see in the photos when the blood was still wet and leave no corresponding stain on the Bible?

We also don't know if it was Sheila's blood on the Bible, and we don't know if it was Sheila's blood on the floor.

[Roch]

Quote from: scipio_usmc on July 30, 2015, 07:05:PM

   
How was the Bible placed on that blood stain we see in the photos when the blood was still wet and leave no corresponding stain on the Bible?

We also don't know if it was Sheila's blood on the Bible, and we don't know if it was Sheila's blood on the floor.

The police placed the bible over the stain, after it had dried, in an attempt to conceal the stain during crime scene photography.   This led to members of the raid team questioning the position of the bible - when later shown crime scene images at a briefing.  We dont even know if the TFG knew there was a stain on the carpet (i.e. if the second shot was accidental while SOCO were handling the rifle - TFG may not have been present). Nobody was probably meant to see that stain on the carpet.  It has come to light because of the tenacity and rule bending of people like Mike Tesko.

[Kaldin]

The police placed the bible over the stain, after it had dried, in an attempt to conceal the stain during crime scene photography.   This led to members of the raid team questioning the position of the bible - when later shown crime scene images at a briefing.  We dont even know if the TFG knew there was a stain on the carpet (i.e. if the second shot was accidental while SOCO were handling the rifle - TFG may not have been present). Nobody was probably meant to see that stain on the carpet.  It has come to light because of the tenacity and rule bending of people like Mike Tesko.

It wasn't concealed very well though - we can all see it. Do you mean that they found Sheila in that position and accidentally fired the gun into her chin?

[Roch]

It wasn't concealed very well though - we can all see it.

You and I were never meant to see any images that show the stain under the bible.  For all intents and purposes - it didn't exist in theory (and it ceased to exist in real terms when the carpets were hastily burned outside by police).

Do you mean that they found Sheila in that position and accidentally fired the gun into her chin?

I don't think we will ever know what happened in entirety.  It's possible and it's been suggested.  Sheila being rolled over in to recovery position has been suggested - hence the bloodstain on the carpet.  Imagine being a mamber of the TFG?  You leave the scene and the next time you are shown the scene - it doesn't look anything like the scene you vacated before SOCO and detectives took over.