Sherlock has solved the case at last ...

[Jane]

It is not clear

It is much debated whether murder is the so called unforgivable sin or not ...

Here is one translation of line 14 of Psalm 51

"Rescue me from the guilt of murder, O God, the God who delivers me! Then my tongue will shout for joy because of your deliverance."

You can find this particular translation here :

http://biblehub.com/net/psalms/51.htm

It is a modern translation which is why it uses the word murder and not the old fashioned blood guilt

It is clear that Psalm 51 is a call for forgiveness after murder ...

Whether or not God does actually forgive murderers is a whole different debate ...

The meaning of line 14 of Psalm 51 is however beyond debate - it is crystal clear ...

It matters NOT A JOT what are the translations. The Psalms, beautifully worded though some are, are, in reality, no more than Biblical 'pop' songs. They are not the 'Word' of God. There is nothing specifically written -which is God's word- which proclaim that he will forgive murder committed by one of his followers. That you say "Whether or not God does actually forgive murderers is a whole different debate..." suggests you may have have asked 'your' vicar a question in isolation to get the answer you were seeking.

[sherlock]

I'm still waiting for Sherlocks source that Sheila was a passionate reader of the bible & lived her life accordingly. Third request.

He slso only briefly addressed one of the points I gave him in reply 17. Altbough said he was going to address them all.

You are the only forum member who has tried to put up detailed logical reasons why I am wrong about Sheila doing it .

So out of respect I will take time to fully analysis all of your detailed reasons before responding ...

But I also agree with some of Davids points about your debating style Adam 

[sherlock]

Then perhaps you should ask him whose word has greater worth to a committed Christian, the word of God, or the words of a poet. You could also try asking him if any committed Christian would consider taking ONE life, let alone FIVE.

Cain murdered Abel Jane ...

All Christians commit sin - even murder ...

A Christian having a psychotic breakdown is as likely to murder as anyone else having a psychotic breakdown ...

I would agree that a Christian not having a psychotic breakdown is less likely to consider or commit murder than a non believer ....

[Adam]

You are the only forum member who has tried to put up detailed logical reasons why I am wrong about Sheila doing it .

So out of respect I will take time to fully analysis all of your detailed reasons before responding ...

But I also agree with some of Davids points about your debating style Adam 

It's evidence reasons. A lot from the 'court of appeal'. Evidence needs to be addressed.

Obviously a source needs to be supplied that Sheila was a passionate bible reader & lived her life according to the bible. Perhaps she went to bible classes in London, like June did near to WHF.

Anyway. I look forward to you're source.

[sherlock]

It matters NOT A JOT what are the translations. The Psalms, beautifully worded though some are, are, in reality, no more than Biblical 'pop' songs. They are not the 'Word' of God. There is nothing specifically written -which is God's word- which proclaim that he will forgive murder committed by one of his followers. That you say "Whether or not God does actually forgive murderers is a whole different debate..." suggests you may have have asked 'your' vicar a question in isolation to get the answer you were seeking.

I think you misunderstand me Jane

I am not saying that God does or does not forgive murder ...

I am saying that many Christians believe that he does ...

And they believe that Psalm 51 is relevant ...

Because of line 14 " Rescue me from the guilt of murder, O God, the God who delivers me!

Then my tongue will shout for joy because of your deliverance."

It might not be what you and many other Christians believe but it is what very many Christians believe ...

I already knew this - the Vicar confirmed it ...

And the particular translation does have relevance to this case ...

The Court of Appeal looked at whether Psalm 51 was relevant ...

The expert Dr Gillingham does not accept line 14 relates to murder because her translation that she believes in is worded differently ...

This was a very bad mistake ...

She should have told the Court of Appeal that different Christians interpret line 14 of Psalm 51 differently ...

As you can see from the link I gave you many Christians translate it as murder ...

She should have told the Court there are different translations and interpretations - she did not ...

She should have shown them the modern translation I have shown you ...

Had the Court been shown this version of the Bible they would have viewed this point differently ...

Psalm 51 is famous for being one of the most differently translated passages in the Bible ...

Jeremys lawyers should have employed a different expert ...

If they get back to the Court of Appeal then they should do exactly this ...

There are plenty of religious experts who could show and explain this to the Court of Appeal properly ...

[Stephanie]

Because you leave your post,which ARE aimed at me personally,open to criticism of them and you !

If you can't see your own bias then you most certainly have a problem. You are saying that JB's guilty,right ? Well in that case you're biased towards his guilt.Right ?

No, my posts are NOT aimed at you personally. They are made in response to your posts. I am NOT critising YOU merely what you post. There is a difference.

You are project g your bias onto me.

[Stephanie]

All Police are armed in USA - so mistakes will be common ...

Only hand picked highly trained Officers are issued with guns in the UK

To become a Police firearms INSTRUCTOR in UK you have to be in the top 1% of Officers ...

There was no contradiction - I said "an Officer like her" - big difference to an average Officer - especially in 1985 ....

If you are sure beyond doubt that WPC Jeapes was wrong then I wonder what logic helped you arrive at that definite conclusion ?

Or do you know she was wrong because it contradicts your gut instinct about this case ?

You contradiction was when you referred to humans making mistakes in another post

There are numerous others

[Jane]

I think you misunderstand me Jane

I am not saying that God does or does not forgive murder ...

I am saying that many Christians believe that he does ...

And they believe that Psalm 51 is relevant ...

Because of line 14 " Rescue me from the guilt of murder, O God, the God who delivers me!

Then my tongue will shout for joy because of your deliverance."

It might not be what you and many other Christians believe but it is what very many Christians believe ...

I already knew this - the Vicar confirmed it ...

And the particular translation does have relevance to this case ...

The Court of Appeal looked at whether Psalm 51 was relevant ...

The expert Dr Gillingham does not accept line 14 relates to murder because her translation that she believes in is worded differently ...

This was a very bad mistake ...

She should have told the Court of Appeal that different Christians interpret line 14 of Psalm 51 differently ...

As you can see from the link I gave you many Christians translate it as murder ...

She should have told the Court there are different translations and interpretations - she did not ...

She should have shown them the modern translation I have shown you ...

Had the Court been shown this version of the Bible they would have viewed this point differently ...

Psalm 51 is famous for being one of the most differently translated passages in the Bible ...

Jeremys lawyers should have employed a different expert ...

If they get back to the Court of Appeal then they should do exactly this ...

There are plenty of religious experts who could show and explain this to the Court of Appeal properly ...

I don't believe any more Christians believe the 'murder' translation than believe the 1 Corinthians 13:13 quotation " And now there remains these three. Faith hope and charity and the greatest of these is charity" It is accepted, now that for "charity" we can read Love.

[Stephanie]

Though what your argument has to do with anything I don't know.

Why are my arguments not valid?

[David1819]

Have you surveyed people who believe in Psalm 51? Especially those with murder in mind?

http://www.bakersfield.com/news/what-s-the-deal-with-psalms-and-in-the-sabrina/article_dd261378-9ccc-11e7-9f6b-33eb8e407a96.html

[Stephanie]

I have spent about 50% of my time considering whether he is guilty ...

I have concluded that he is not for the reasons given in this thread ..

It doesn't matter how long you've spent considering each option. It's how you've considered it. And as pointed out you reasons are clearly bias and indeed contradictory.

[Stephanie]

It is straight out of actual reality )

Do you mean your reality?

[Jane]

I think you misunderstand me Jane

I am not saying that God does or does not forgive murder ...

I am saying that many Christians believe that he does ...

And they believe that Psalm 51 is relevant ...

Because of line 14 " Rescue me from the guilt of murder, O God, the God who delivers me!

Then my tongue will shout for joy because of your deliverance."

It might not be what you and many other Christians believe but it is what very many Christians believe ...

I already knew this - the Vicar confirmed it ...

And the particular translation does have relevance to this case ...

The Court of Appeal looked at whether Psalm 51 was relevant ...

The expert Dr Gillingham does not accept line 14 relates to murder because her translation that she believes in is worded differently ...

This was a very bad mistake ...

She should have told the Court of Appeal that different Christians interpret line 14 of Psalm 51 differently ...

As you can see from the link I gave you many Christians translate it as murder ...

She should have told the Court there are different translations and interpretations - she did not ...

She should have shown them the modern translation I have shown you ...

Had the Court been shown this version of the Bible they would have viewed this point differently ...

Psalm 51 is famous for being one of the most differently translated passages in the Bible ...

Jeremys lawyers should have employed a different expert ...

If they get back to the Court of Appeal then they should do exactly this ...

There are plenty of religious experts who could show and explain this to the Court of Appeal properly ...

.......and as many who would explain it differently.

[Stephanie]

You are the only forum member who has tried to put up detailed logical reasons why I am wrong about Sheila doing it .

So out of respect I will take time to fully analysis all of your detailed reasons before responding ...

But I also agree with some of Davids points about your debating style Adam 

Here's an example of your bias 

[sherlock]

I don't believe any more Christians believe the 'murder' translation than believe the 1 Corinthians 13:13 quotation " And now there remains these three. Faith hope and charity and the greatest of these is charity" It is accepted, now that for "charity" we can read Love.

The link I sent you was from the New English Testament ...

"The NET Bible (New English Translation) is a completely new translation of the Bible with 60,932 translators’ notes! It was completed by more than 25 scholars "

It is used and believed by millions of Christians ...

Line 14 of Psalm 51 could not be any clearer it says "MURDER" ...

You can believe what you want Jane ...

But millions of Christians believe the correct translation of line 14 Psalm 51 is "MURDER" ...

That is a fact Jane ...