Sherlock has solved the case at last ...

[Adam]

Obviously Sheila was a very passionate & knowledgable bible reader.

She also lived her life according to the bible. As even in a psychotic & murderous rage she was determined enough to seek it out to read. Prior to her shower & killing herself.

Sheila even knew what page to go to as apparently the page relates to murder & suicide. No one who is not a passionate & knowledgable bible reader would have known this.

Bit surprised Sheila hadn't brought her own bible to WHF.

Anyway, hopefully Sherlock will provide the sources for the above which I have been asking for all of today.

[sherlock]

Clearly not........................with your mindset. The only way I can see that it's feasible is if Sheila had preplanned the whole thing. I wonder just how many theologians she had to approach to find out if there was any passage in the bible which might suggest that God forgives murder. I wonder if she could have found it on the spur of the moment if she'd made a sudden decision? Oh! and what about the psychosis? SURELY, a clear and lucid mother isn't going to murder her parents AND her beloved children, then shoot herself for the fun of it? You appear to have taken something in isolation and run with it. You haven't looked a the whole story, and from what I can ascertain, you're not actually bothered about it as long as you think your 'bit' fits.

We know that Sheila had murder on her mind for a long time ...

She had told her psychiatrist that she was thinking of murdering her children because they were possessed by the Devil a long time before the murders happened ...

So it was in her mind for a long time ...

I am sure in that time she had somehow become aware of Psalm 51 ...

When she has cracked up and actually done it she turned to Psalm 51 ...

That is why the blood is on Psalm 51

http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/the-bloodied-bible

Psalm 51 is about washing away the sin ...

So she washed herself thoroughly ...

And then she shot herself ....

[sherlock]

Obviously Sheila was a very passionate & knowledgable bible reader.

She also lived her life according to the bible. As even in a psychotic & murderous rage she was determined enough to seek it out to read. Prior to her shower & killing herself.

Sheila even knew what page to go to as apparently the page relates to murder & suicide. No one who is not a passionate & knowledgable bible reader would have known this.

Bit surprised Sheila hadn't brought her own bible to WHF.

Anyway, hopefully Sherlock will provide the sources for the above which I have been asking for all of today.

Do you believe with a mother like June that Sheila had never read the Bible ?

In 1985 most people were educated about the Bible and religion ...

Sheila was a self confessed white witch - are you aware what that means Adam ?

She believed her children were possessed by the Devil - you think she was not interested in religion ?

Her previous breakdowns were based around religion Adam ...

[Jane]

We know that Sheila had murder on her mind for a long time ...

She had told her psychiatrist that she was thinking of murdering her children because they were possessed by the Devil a long time before the murders happened ...

So it was in her mind for a long time ...

I am sure in that time she had somehow become aware of Psalm 51 ...

When she has cracked up and actually done it she turned to Psalm 51 ...

That is why the blood is on Psalm 51

http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/the-bloodied-bible

Psalm 51 is about washing away the sin ...

So she washed herself thoroughly ...

And then she shot herself ....

Haha! You've tied it all up very neatly into you're own tiny ball, haven't you? You throw out sweeping statements like murder had been on her mind for a long time. She never spoke of "murdering" her boys. she spoke of fearing she might hurt them -and they, her- and just to remind you, that was during her first breakdown in 1983 -it also occurs to me that had she STILL been convinced of a link they may have had to Old Nick, she wouldn't have been as keen as she was to have them back in her life permanently- during which, even since when, she'd have been hard pushed to plough through the bible to find the passage you're pushing hopefully. I say, hopefully because you can't even prove that she was a regular bible reader.

[lookout]

Sheila wasn't the religious one !

[Jane]

Do you believe with a mother like June that Sheila had never read the Bible ?

In 1985 most people were educated about the Bible and religion ...

Sheila was a self confessed white witch - are you aware what that means Adam ?

She believed her children were possessed by the Devil - you think she was not interested in religion ?

Her previous breakdowns were based around religion Adam ...

Such very twisted knots we weave
When we're so des'pret to deceive.
We have to fudge a little bit
And tweak the facts to make'm fit.

[Adam]

Do you believe with a mother like June that Sheila had never read the Bible ?

In 1985 most people were educated about the Bible and religion ...

Sheila was a self confessed white witch - are you aware what that means Adam ?

She believed her children were possessed by the Devil - you think she was not interested in religion ?

Her previous breakdowns were based around religion Adam ...

Have you got a source that most people were very educated about the bible in 1985 ?

Sheila wouldn't do what June had maybe told her years earlier. She had just killed her in a psychotic rage.

Can you provide a source that Sheila was very passionate & knowledgeable about the bible. And that she lived her life according to the bible.

Obviously if there is no source, it means Miller was right that Bamber left the bible for the police's benefit.

[Caroline]

We know that Sheila had murder on her mind for a long time ...

She had told her psychiatrist that she was thinking of murdering her children because they were possessed by the Devil a long time before the murders happened ... Exactly! A LONG time before the murders

So it was in her mind for a long time ... No, it was on her mind then, prior to being given anti-psychotic drugs

I am sure in that time she had somehow become aware of Psalm 51 ... Why?

When she has cracked up and actually done it she turned to Psalm 51 ... Did she?

That is why the blood is on Psalm 51 because someone put it there doesn't have to be Sheila

http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/the-bloodied-bible

Psalm 51 is about washing away the sin ... So she washed away sin to commit sin again by committing suicide?

So she washed herself thoroughly ... Did she change her nightdress?

And then she shot herself .... Nah!

[sherlock]

Haha! You've tied it all up very neatly into you're own tiny ball, haven't you? You throw out sweeping statements like murder had been on her mind for a long time. She never spoke of "murdering" her boys. she spoke of fearing she might hurt them -and they, her- and just to remind you, that was during her first breakdown in 1983 -it also occurs to me that had she STILL been convinced of a link they may have had to Old Nick, she wouldn't have been as keen as she was to have them back in her life permanently- during which, even since when, she'd have been hard pushed to plough through the bible to find the passage you're pushing hopefully. I say, hopefully because you can't even prove that she was a regular bible reader.

Must be me and Wikipedia that have got that one wrong Jane - you better write and tell them of their mistake quickly ...

wickipedia says ;

"Ferguson wrote that Sheila believed the devil had given her the power to project evil onto others, and that she could make her sons have sex and cause violence with her. She called them the "devil's children", the phrase June had used of Sheila, and said she believed she was capable of murdering them or of getting them to kill others. She spoke about suicide, although the court heard that Ferguson did not regard her as a suicide risk. She was discharged in September 1983"

That was what he said at trial ...

The wickipedia link is :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_House_Farm_murders

Being serious - if you did not know she had told Dr Ferguson she had had thought about killing her children then maybe you should start re thinking your thoughts on this case in light of that piece of news ?

[Adam]

'I am sure in that time she had somehow become aware of Psalm 51'

Errr, no. Nobody has made me aware of psalm 51 so far in my life.

I am not sure anyone telling me about it would relate it to murder & suicide. If they did I wouldn't be searching for someone else's bible in a psychotic rage years or decades later.

[Jane]

Do you believe with a mother like June that Sheila had never read the Bible ?

In 1985 most people were educated about the Bible and religion ...

Sheila was a self confessed white witch - are you aware what that means Adam ?

She believed her children were possessed by the Devil - you think she was not interested in religion ?

Her previous breakdowns were based around religion Adam ...

I'm sure Sheila would have read the bible -or had it read TO her- at some point.

SOME were bible educated long before 1985.

You seem not to know what a white which is. White witches are esoterics involved with nature, herbal healing, astrology, numerology. They aren't involved in mainstream religion.

The "Devil" thing with the children, when she was ill, was probably a throwback to when June called her "Devil's child". It was probably, at he most vulnerable, her greatest fear.

It's reasonable to assume that fear would play a dominant part in mental illness.

This particular fear seems not to have been a major part of her 1985 breakdown.

[sherlock]

Caroline - it is understandable to claim maybe Jeremy put the bloodstains on Psalm 51 ...

I can understand people thinking that ...

I can not understand people continuing to argue that Psalm 51 is not relevant to what took place ...

On it's own maybe the bloodstains on Psalm 51 do not indicate who was responsible ...

But I hope in time we can all agree that the bloodstains on Psalm 51 are relevant ...

Because they are ...

[sherlock]

Such very twisted knots we weave
When we're so des'pret to deceive.
We have to fudge a little bit
And tweak the facts to make'm fit.

If you think I have a fact wrong then please be specific
That way I can explain or learn ...

[Jane]

Must be me and Wikipedia that have got that one wrong Jane - you better write and tell them of their mistake quickly ...

wickipedia says ;

"Ferguson wrote that Sheila believed the devil had given her the power to project evil onto others, and that she could make her sons have sex and cause violence with her. She called them the "devil's children", the phrase June had used of Sheila, and said she believed she was capable of murdering them or of getting them to kill others. She spoke about suicide, although the court heard that Ferguson did not regard her as a suicide risk. She was discharged in September 1983"

That was what he said at trial ...

The wickipedia link is :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_House_Farm_murders

Being serious - if you did not know she had told Dr Ferguson she had had thought about killing her children then maybe you should start re thinking your thoughts on this case in light of that piece of news ?

Perhaps you should contact Dr Ferguson and tell him he got it wrong as 'Wiki' says differently from his WS and 'Wiki', according to you, has to be correct.

[sherlock]

I'm sure Sheila would have read the bible -or had it read TO her- at some point.

SOME were bible educated long before 1985.

You seem not to know what a white which is. White witches are esoterics involved with nature, herbal healing, astrology, numerology. They aren't involved in mainstream religion.

The "Devil" thing with the children, when she was ill, was probably a throwback to when June called her "Devil's child". It was probably, at he most vulnerable, her greatest fear.

It's reasonable to assume that fear would play a dominant part in mental illness.

This particular fear seems not to have been a major part of her 1985 breakdown.

By any definition of white witch it means someone who believes in and is very interested in the spiritual side of life ...