A New Approach

[maggie]

I imagine I'd have been pulverized by fear and throwing up constantly. I could never have maintained whatever it was which passed for 'normal' behaviour. I'd have been too scared to do something and too scared to do anything.

I agree I am pretty sure I would have been terrified.   Being a natural coward and lucky enough to have caring and supportive parents I think I would have gone to them for help.  I do understand not everybody is lucky enough to be able to do that which is why I have often wondered about her background.  I would guess although I don't know for certain that Julie may not have had that security.  I also wonder if this could account for her lack of moral judgement at times.
Having said that we all make mistakes when growing up but if this what it was it is one humdinger of a 'mistake'.

[Stephanie]

Where is the suicidal bit mentioned?

In her diaries http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,5230.0.html

There's also mention of Bamber wanting to go the morgue.

[Stephanie]

I imagine I'd have been pulverized by fear and throwing up constantly. I could never have maintained whatever it was which passed for 'normal' behaviour. I'd have been too scared to do something and too scared to do anything.

Which, in a round about way, is how JM refers to her feelings/emotions in her diary entries.

[Stephanie]

I agree I am pretty sure I would have been terrified.   Being a natural coward and lucky enough to have caring and supportive parents I think I would have gone to them for help.  I do understand not everybody is lucky enough to be able to do that which is why I have often wondered about her background.  I would guess although I don't know for certain that Julie may not have had that security.  I also wonder if this could account for her lack of moral judgement at times.
Having said that we all make mistakes when growing up but if this what it was it is one humdinger of a 'mistake'.

To what moral judgements do you refer Maggie, can you be specific?

Having done some considerable research on the subject matter and having been through a similar ish experience to JM, whilst I can't talk for her, I do have some idea of how she may have felt and believe you me, no amount of caring or support would have stopped her from feeling terrified to some degree.

Realising your "partner" is a murderer is indescribable and unless you've walked in the shoes of someone who has been in that position it's unlikely you will ever truly comprehend what it feels like.

[maggie]

To what moral judgements do you refer Maggie, can you be specific?

Having done some considerable research on the subject matter and having been through a similar ish experience to JM, whilst I can't talk for her, I do have some idea of how she may have felt and believe you me, no amount of caring or support would have stopped her from feeling terrified to some degree.

Realising your "partner" is a murderer is indescribable and unless you've walked in the shoes of someone who has been in that position it's unlikely you will ever truly comprehend what it feels like.

I don't believe it would have stopped her feeling terrified, that is not what I said. I was referring to the fact that if she h a d not had a safe and secure upbringing she may not have had anywhere to go when she was terrified and it may have affected her judgement and her behaavour.
I would never claim to know how she felt as I have never claimed to have walked in her shoes or yours.

[Stephanie]

I don't believe it would have stopped her feeling terrified, that is not what I said. I was referring to the fact that if she h a d not had a safe and secure upbringing she may not have had anywhere to go when she was terrified and it may have affected her judgement and her behaavour.
I would never claim to know how she felt as I have never claimed to have walked in her shoes or yours.

She often refers to speaking to her Mum and Dad in her diary entries?

Infact her diary entries give an insight into how she was struggling to cope. She refers to Jeremy at one point as the "devil incarnate."

Imo Julie may well have been trauma bonded to Jeremy at this point. This is often the case in psychologically abusive relationships; especially where one partner has a PD.

[maggie]

She often refers to speaking to her Mum and Dad in her diary entries?

I know she does, her parents were separated and her Mother had remarried. She had talked of being abused by either her natural father or her step father amongst other things.
 

[JackieD]

I don't believe it would have stopped her feeling terrified, that is not what I said. I was referring to the fact that if she h a d not had a safe and secure upbringing she may not have had anywhere to go when she was terrified and it may have affected her judgement and her behaavour.
I would never claim to know how she felt as I have never claimed to have walked in her shoes or yours.

She was a prolific liar and nobody could tell how many lies she to
Jealous and vindictive and very dangerous

[Stephanie]

I know she does, her parents were separated and her Mother had remarried. She had talked of being abused by either her natural father or her step father amongst other things.
 

Arh right. Do you then mean she may have been codependent? https://downtherabbitholeblog.org/2016/08/08/h-g-tudors-theory-of-narcissism-and-codependency/

"HG Tudor […] poses a theory that the codependent who is bound to a narcissist is actually a person who was set up in childhood to be a narcissist him/herself, but was arrested in development at some point along the way, and unable to develop the necessary skills to “blossom” into full blown narcissism. This is why, he theorizes, the codependent needs the narcissist, because their inner beasts are the same, and the codependent actually needs the narcissist in order to keep their beast at bay in the same way the narcissist does with his/her own mask, which the codependent is unable to do on his own.

[maggie]

Arh right. Do you then mean she may have been codependent? https://downtherabbitholeblog.org/2016/08/08/h-g-tudors-theory-of-narcissism-and-codependency/

Possibly or disordered to some degree herself.   I am speculating as I don't know enough about her background.

[JackieD]

Possibly or disordered to some degree herself.   I am speculating as I don't know enough about her background.

Obviously you don't

[Caroline]

You don't have any evidence to support this. The circumstances surrounding her evidence points to the contrary. Unless you want to go with an absurd coincidence theory.

Nothing points to Julie mixing with the relatives only some silly little theory of yours.

[Stephanie]

Possibly or disordered to some degree herself.   I am speculating as I don't know enough about her background.

Do you know where I can read about JM allegedly being abused by her father/step father; or could this be a part of Bambers smear campaign?

[David1819]

Nothing points to Julie mixing with the relatives only some silly little theory of yours.

You know that's not true.

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,106.msg125580.html#msg125580

Why waste my time debating when you know the problems and circumstances around Julie's evidence inside out?

[Jane]

I know she does, her parents were separated and her Mother had remarried. She had talked of being abused by either her natural father or her step father amongst other things.
 

And, as I've said, many, MANY times, PATTERNS REPEAT.