A New Approach

[Kaldin]

Here's something I've wondered - and dismissed - but I'll ask anyway.

Is it possible that Jeremy did tell Julie all that stuff, but he was making it up? After all, if he'd talked about killing his family all that time, and then Sheila beat him to it, maybe he wanted Julie to think that he'd arranged it - sort of showing off.

I dismissed the idea eventually because I think he would have told her in the end that he hadn't really done it. Perhaps he did tell her that, but she didn't mention that.

[Kaldin]

D'ya know what, Kaldin? I'm not going to waste my hard worked for knowledge on you. I could quote every psychologist who's written a paper on it but I don't believe you want to know. In fact, each subsequent post of yours is becoming ever more as if you're determined NOT to know. I've explained that what one does ISN'T always a clear indication of how one feels about doing it. You've chosen to dismiss it. Find someone else to play games with.

Feel free to ignore my posts then - I'm not forcing you to read them, and I didn't invited you to "play". I feel that you're being quite aggressive anyway. You have no more right to your opinion that I have to mine. I've also researched this case you know. I'm not particular interested in the generalities of pychologists unless you can show they pertain to this scenario.

[Adam]

Why would I? I wouldn't - if I was convinced that she was telling the truth in the end. In fact, I would have expected her to stay as far away as possible and sob for a month.

Look she was still with Bamber & was Bamber's closest confidant.

He pleaded with her to go & she went.

That's it.

[Kaldin]

Look she was still with Bamber & was Bamber's closest confidant.

He pleaded with her to go & she went.

That's it.

Where does she say he pleaded with her?

Anyway, so what? Did she not have a mind of her own? Being with Jeremy was a voluntary thing - you make it sound like she had no choice.

[Steve_uk]

Here's something I've wondered - and dismissed - but I'll ask anyway.

Is it possible that Jeremy did tell Julie all that stuff, but he was making it up? After all, if he'd talked about killing his family all that time, and then Sheila beat him to it, maybe he wanted Julie to think that he'd arranged it - sort of showing off.

I dismissed the idea eventually because I think he would have told her in the end that he hadn't really done it. Perhaps he did tell her that, but she didn't mention that.

Insofar as he made up the hitman to dissociate himself from the impact of the crime on Julie yes. But this invention precludes him from showing off as you put it because that would have counteracted the invention.

[Adam]

Where does she say he pleaded with her?

Anyway, so what? Did she not have a mind of her own? Being with Jeremy was a voluntary thing - you make it sound like she had no choice.

I have already told you she didn't want to go to the funeral. But Bamber persuaded her.

She had a choice & chose to go.

And ?

[Caroline]

Where does she say he pleaded with her?

Anyway, so what? Did she not have a mind of her own? Being with Jeremy was a voluntary thing - you make it sound like she had no choice.

You make it sound as if she was loving it.

[Kaldin]

I have already told you she didn't want to go to the funeral. But Bamber persuaded her.

She had a choice & chose to go.

And ?

Where did she say she didn't want to go but Jeremy persuaded her? Do you have a link?

[Kaldin]

Insofar as he made up the hitman to dissociate himself from the impact of the crime on Julie yes. But this invention precludes him from showing off as you put it because that would have counteracted the invention.

Maybe, but maybe he thought it would be pushing it a bit to say he'd done it himself.

[Jane]

Feel free to ignore my posts then - I'm not forcing you to read them, and I didn't invited you to "play". I feel that you're being quite aggressive anyway. You have no more right to your opinion that I have to mine. I've also researched this case you know. I'm not particular interested in the generalities of pychologists unless you can show they pertain to this scenario.

You're perfectly correct. You have no less right to your opinion than I to mine. You didn't force me to read your posts. I took my eye of the ball and momentarily allowed myself to be coerced into "playing". You may call me aggressive. I choose to see it as being assertive about things I feel passionately about, and that which I'm involved with on an almost daily basis.

[Adam]

Where did she say she didn't want to go but Jeremy persuaded her? Do you have a link?

Page 219 Wilkes's book.

'She agreed that she had comforted & supported him. Even to the extent of being at his side for the funerals. Despite having begged him not to make her go.'

[maggie]

Look she was still with Bamber & was Bamber's closest confidant.

He pleaded with her to go & she went.

That's it.

Says you, Adam but that is just your opinion.

I have to agree with much of Kaldin's reasoning and don't believe that means I am blaming JM more than JB. 

I have always found JM's behavour hard to get to grips with, I am aware that if JB is a psychopathic type of personality then he would have the ability to hypnotise/put her in a trance state.... 'The Reptilian Stare'.  This is what a true psychopath can do and she would be unaware of it happening. 

As we don't know if JB is a psychopath I cannot see how we can know for sure that this happened to JM but it is a possibility which has to be considered imo. 

[Kaldin]

Page 219 Wilkes's book.

'She agreed that she had comforted & supported him. Even to the extent of being at his side for the funerals. Despite having begged him not to make her go.'

That's someone else's words. Does she say it in any of her statements? If not, then it's just hearsay.

[Jane]

Says you, Adam but that is just your opinion.

I have to agree with much of Kaldin's reasoning and don't believe that means I am blaming JM more than JB. 

I have always found JM's behavour hard to get to grips with, I am aware that if JB is a psychopathic type of personality then he would have the ability to hypnotise/put her in a trance state.  This is what a true psychopath can do and she would be unaware of it happening. 

As we don't know if JB is a psychopath I cannot see how we can know for sure that this happened to JM but it is a possibility which has to be considered imo.

I don't think anyone has ever suggested it wasn't. Seeking to understand it makes it no LESS reprehensible, however, I have some sympathy with the situation in which she found herself. It matters very little that he'd said he wanted his parents dead -no more than mouthing off, wasn't it? Maybe. Perhaps- I can only imagine that there may have been two distinct personalities at work, one of which was genuinely horrified when it happened. The other envisioning a life of luxury as Mrs Jeremy Bamber.

[Kaldin]

You're perfectly correct. You have no less right to your opinion than I to mine. You didn't force me to read your posts. I took my eye of the ball and momentarily allowed myself to be coerced into "playing". You may call me aggressive. I choose to see it as being assertive about things I feel passionately about, and that which I'm involved with on an almost daily basis.

Fine by me, although I'm not "playing". I don't know about your personal life - I'm here to discuss the Bamber case.