Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm

[Roch]

I've never been convinced that Nevill called Chelmsford police. I think that PC West would have remembered two separate phone calls that night, and he had no reason to lie at that time. There are discrepancies with the time logged on the police reports, but I think that was a mistake.

Not sure if you've already read this attachment - it's at least food for thought, among the many other opinions people have on this aspect.

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,8401.0.html

[Roch]

Roch I don't know why you suddenly decided that those runs of blood are from cuts when its rather obvious by looking the photos one can deduce otherwise.

If you look at the photo of Nevills arm. That is what Sheila's wounds should look like (if they are). But they don't.

Its believed these wounds to Nevills arm is caused by the barrel of the gun. And if so that is certainly not with the smooth ended silencer. However I find it very coincidental for there to be five cuts in the alignment and size of a female hand.



“METROPOLITAN POLICE. R v Bamber Court Bundle (7B) Photograph Album (III) Original Case Photographs”

Amongst the album marked “Original Case Photographs” was a post mortem photograph of Ralph Neville Bamber’s right arm, missing from the album made available to the Jury, Trial Judge and Appellate Courts as well as the Defence.

The photo of Ralph Neville Bamber’s arm does indeed sustain the observation and witness statement of Professor Vanezis in that “there was a collection of bruises, 3 of which had an approximate linear configuration…” and the observation uplifted from the post mortem report in the Court of Appeal’s Approved Judgement in para 42: “linear type bruising to the right forearm,”
but what was not made available to the Court of Appeal was the very post mortem photograph itself since what was available was only the blue photographic albums marked “Jury Bundle” and NOT the album marked “original case photographs.”

Even to a medically untrained eye the photograph of the right arm of Ralph Neville Bamber shows finger nail marks consistent with the assailant/attacker having gripped the deceased and having lacerated the skin with finger nail marks.

What is of some considerable concern and forms part of the basis of the request to the Commission to refer this matter back to the Court of Appeal is that Professor Vanezis made NO mention of these vitally important marks in his post mortem report.

The finger nail lacerations are consistent with a person with finger nails between 5mm-6mm long since the lacerated indentations into the skin are measured."
CRIMINAL CASES REVIEW COMMISSION ON BEHALF OF THE APPLICANT
CASE NO: 00162/2004




Knight's Forensic Pathology Third Edition page 141
Fingernail abrasions
These are important because of their frequency in assaults -especially child abuse, sexual attacks and strangulation. Often associated with focal bruises, fingernail abrasions are most often seen on the neck, the face, the upper arms and the forearms. They may be linear scratches if the fingers are
dragged down the skin, or short, straight or curved marks when the skin is gripped in a static fashion. As women tend to have longer, sharper fingernails than men, they are naturally
more often associated with causing such abrasions. A victim resisting a sexual or other attack may rake her nails down her assailant's face, causing linear, parallel scratches that may be several millimetres wide and placed a centimetre or two apart. The expected pattern may be fragmentary,
however, as is often seen on the neck when a victim of either manual or ligature strangulation attempts to tear away the attacking fingers or cord. These marks are usually vertical, as opposed to the more random marks that may be inflicted by the nails of the assailant in manual strangulation.
The upper arms are a frequent site for gripping and restraint, both in adult assaults and child abuse. Bruising is most common, but fingernail marks may be superimposed. Static fingernail abrasions may be straight or curved, often about half to one centimetre long. The direction of curvature must be interpreted with care if one wishes to decide which way the hand was held at the time of infliction.

Although it is natural to assume that the concavity of the mark indicates the orientation of the fingertip, experiments by Shapiro et al. (1962) have shown that this is often not the case. Because the skin is put under lateral tension when it is indented by the nails, it may distort, so that when the
tension is released the elasticity of the skin causes it to return to its original position, carrying the nail mark with it. The curve may then reverse to form either a straight line or a convexity. The shape of the free edge of the fingernail also affects the mark, as pointed nails are more likely than
those with straight edges to give these paradoxical results. Once again, the pathologist has to be wary of incorrect interpretation when, for instance, deciding if nail marks on a neck were made by hands approaching from the front or passing around the back of the neck. However, ~ersonal
experiments with the Shapiro et al. contention have shown that it by no means always applies.

I've tried to do one of your clever images David.  A crude attempt.  Forefinger; middle finger; ring finger; little finger (faintest). 

[Steve_uk]

But where's the concomitant damage to Sheila's fingernails? Until you tie Sheila into contact with her parents your diagrams prove absolutely nothing.

[Roch]

I've tried to do one of your clever images David.  A crude attempt.  Forefinger; middle finger; ring finger; little finger (faintest).

Or you could reverse it I suppose. 

[Caroline]

I've tried to do one of your clever images David.  A crude attempt.  Forefinger; middle finger; ring finger; little finger (faintest).

Surely blood would be running down from such injuries, not up?

[David1819]

But where's the concomitant damage to Sheila's fingernails? Until you tie Sheila into contact with her parents your diagrams prove absolutely nothing.

It was revealed by gossip circulating in the Frog and Beans. 

[Kaldin]

Welcome back Kaldin.

You are correct that it was the upper wound which was said to be instantly fatal.

You might have already noticed (ignore this if you have), but many of the documents and photographs etc are now in their own archive section. I don't think that was the case when you used to post. It's much easier to find things now.
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/board,3.0.html

Hello Hartley - thank you.  Sorry I missed your post yesterday. I'll have a look around - there are so many details to this case that I can't remember some of it. 

[Roch]

Surely blood would be running down from such injuries, not up?

It has.  The wounds have nothing to do with Sheila's (alleged) final resting position. They were incurred earlier, during a mortal struggle with an opponent.  The streams of blood are actually thin and would have quickly began to dry (I have described them as appearing 'dappled' in higher-def images). 

[lookout]

The problem I have with the area of the darker spots is because there's less blood supply in the forearms to form those dark areas. I'd have said that they were more like droplets of venous blood from a wound-----such as from her neck. Venous blood being pretty dark in colour as pictured,as in jugular.

[Kaldin]

Not sure if you've already read this attachment - it's at least food for thought, among the many other opinions people have on this aspect.

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,8401.0.html

Thanks Roch. I have so many thoughts about the alleged call from Neville, but I'll read that thread and perhaps comment on it.

[David1819]

I've tried to do one of your clever images David.  A crude attempt.  Forefinger; middle finger; ring finger; little finger (faintest).

Take a closer look. Runs of blood with build up at the end.  Furthermore when you look at the size of these compared to Sheila's hand these runs are tiny. They collectively span no more that 4 cm in my estimate.

If they were caused by combat it was with an altercation with no human or any earthy animal I can think of. 

[lookout]

The problem I have with the area of the darker spots is because there's less blood supply in the forearms to form those dark areas. I'd have said that they were more like droplets of venous blood from a wound-----such as from her neck. Venous blood being pretty dark in colour as pictured,as in jugular.

There were lots of small spots of blood on the carpet around Sheila,so whoever was wandering about,bleeding,possibly leaned over and dripped blood over Sheila. ?
Pieces of carpet were cut out where the staining was but unfortunately not much was made of it nor the pattern of staining which was carried through to the area beneath the window of the " sewing room ".

[maggie]

The problem I have with the area of the darker spots is because there's less blood supply in the forearms to form those dark areas. I'd have said that they were more like droplets of venous blood from a wound-----such as from her neck. Venous blood being pretty dark in colour as pictured,as in jugular.

Hi Lookout, If they are drips of blood from the neck the trails could not have run upwards, it is difficult to imagine how Sheila held her arms to achieve those blood trails from drips imo.
The spots are darker because the blood has congealed within the wounds however because her blood was healthy the gouges would be more likely to leak especially as she smoked. Cannabis and was prescribed Haloperidol both of which have a slight anticoagulant effect.

[maggie]

There were lots of small spots of blood on the carpet around Sheila,so whoever was wandering about,bleeding,possibly leaned over and dripped blood over Sheila. ?
Pieces of carpet were cut out where the staining was but unfortunately not much was made of it nor the pattern of staining which was carried through to the area beneath the window of the " sewing room ".

We are told the drips of blood on the carpet are from June therefore if June dripped onto Sheila she must have died after Sheila?

[lookout]

We are told the drips of blood on the carpet are from June therefore if June dripped onto Sheila she must have died after Sheila?

Which is all the more confusing because no time of death was ever recorded.