Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm

[Roch]

But it would be running upward if those dark spots are injuries (which I don't believe they are).

What makes you say that?

[Jan]

She was an exhausted, disoriented woman who had admittedly progressed from knowing that something was wrong with her (when she first ventured into suggesting professional help for herself by asking Colin to make an appointment with a psychiatrist) to having episodes which she couldn't control and didn't understand but which were not physically directed against other people, only a notion that others may have been responsible for the way she had ended up.

Jeremy might well have got blood on his person, some of which he washed off in the upstairs bathroom at White House Farm, where Ann Eaton found the shower head out of place; the other specks of blood had seeped into his jumper, which was discovered in the wardrobe at Bourtree Cottage a month after the killings, but which were too badly degraded for forensic scientist Dr. Hayward to analyse.

so although the police were at his house with him almost immediately you think he had washed his clothes ?  and not got rid of them on his way back to the house ?

[susan]

I don't have an  explanation, or inside information. Roch has given at least some of his explanation no doubt based on more info and discussions.
One of the reasons I changed from innocent to guilty was the difficulty in believing why there was a cover up and even if there was it seemed impossible to hold it together for 30 years.. Another was the repetitive, unproven and easily dismissed arguments for innocence. For all that I am in no doubt that Sheila has marks on her hand and arm which indicate that she was in a struggle with someone with sharp nails long enough to scratch and pierce the skin on her right arm.

Maggie I was adamant Jeremy was innocent as so much was said about his behaviour which I agree was dreadful after the funerals but this did not make him guilty and I was not offered one piece of concrete evidence that he was guilty.  I did at one stage think maybe he was guilty but I never felt really comfortable about it as I saw no real evidence he was so I was so to speak in no mans land  until I saw the pic of Sheila's arm and hands and saw scratches and gauge marks I had at last seen some concrete evidence Sheila was involved in a struggle with somebody with sharp nails.

[Jane]

so although the police were at his house with him almost immediately you think he had washed his clothes ?  and not got rid of them on his way back to the house ?

How does "almost immediately" correspond with the possibility of him getting back to the house after midnight and waiting until nearly 3.30 before calling the police? There was time to do a weeks worth of washing in that time. The police didn't get to his house until breakfast time. IF they'd noticed washing in the machine -and given that it was a murder enquiry in which this witness was seen as a victim rather than a suspect, it was extremely unlikely- it could easily have been explained away as yesterdays farm clothes.

[David1819]

Sorry you believe it was 'daft' to remove a CCTV video of a young man shooting himself to death but that is just a matter of judgement.

It is true it showed the rifle falling onto his body in a similar position to the rifle on Sheila's body.

I don't think anyone would object if you put up a link to the video as long as you included a warning.

Ok fair enough. But since this entire forum's focus comes down to studying either a suicide or a staged suicide with a rifle I think its not only appropriate but also important.

The link is below. (NSFL)

https://gfycat.com/GloriousHeavenlyBuck

[Caroline]

What makes you say that?

If Sheila was standing when she was injured, how could the blood go around her wrist and not straight down? I can't picture any scenario in my mind that would the the blood gong around her arm down to her wrists but if blood was on her palm, it would follow that path - I know because I tried it some time ago (not with blood I might add)  and got the same effect.

[Jan]

Ok fair enough. But since this entire forum's focus comes down to studying either a suicide or a staged suicide with a rifle I think its not only appropriate but also important.

The link is below. (NSFL)

https://gfycat.com/GloriousHeavenlyBuck

Yes I can see how that is relevant.

[David1819]

Yes I can see how that is relevant.

Its remarkable. If you look at how he falls, it could explain how Sheila got a large amount of blood running down her right side and armpit.

[Roch]

If Sheila was standing when she was injured, how could the blood go around her wrist and not straight down? I can't picture any scenario in my mind that would the the blood gong around her arm down to her wrists but if blood was on her palm, it would follow that path - I know because I tried it some time ago (not with blood I might add)  and got the same effect.

I think it would be the angle and tilt of her arm that would be the deciding factor in the direction of the runs.  There are wounds upon her right arm, hand and trigger finger. 

Might she have gripped the weapon defensively - and sustained the wounds as a result of attempts to prise it from her grip?

[Roch]

Its remarkable. If you look at how he falls, it could explain how Sheila got a large amount of blood running down her right side and armpit.

Perhaps it is remarkable and relevant.  However the shot in question exits via top of his skull  - could it have been a higher calibre weapon?  If so, might that equate with a more pronounced convulsive reaction?

[Roch]

I respect that you believe they are injuries however, why didn't Vanezis refer to them in his original notes? His notes were written before any conspiracy grew legs. He mentioned the old cut on her abdomen - why would he mention that and not the 'lacerations' on her arm?

She had blood on her palm which made the print on the bible the trails on her arm lead from her palm to form the trails and the dark spots are just where the blood trail came to an end the the blood thickened and dried.

How do we know all of his notes survived? 

You were right when you originally posted that 'lacerations' was an exaggerated term for these wounds.

If /when you see clearer images - you will see that the trails are fainter / less viscous than the spots.   

[Roch]

Jeremy might well have got blood on his person, some of which he washed off in the upstairs bathroom at White House Farm, where Ann Eaton found the shower head out of place

Her detection skills knew no bounds.  God forbid Ann Eaton find something amiss... she reminds me of Jack Black and his dog Silver (Viz).

the other specks of blood had seeped into his jumper, which was discovered in the wardrobe at Bourtree Cottage a month after the killings, but which were too badly degraded for forensic scientist Dr. Hayward to analyse.

Placing Jeremy in to a guilty scenario that now includes Sheila's mauled arm, is no longer plain sailing.

[Caroline]

How do we know all of his notes survived? 

You were right when you originally posted that 'lacerations' was an exaggerated term for these wounds.

If /when you see clearer images - you will see that the trails are fainter / less viscous than the spots.

I know 

[David1819]

Perhaps it is remarkable and relevant.  However the shot in question exits via top of his skull  - could it have been a higher calibre weapon?  If so, might that equate with a more pronounced convulsive reaction?

If we put Sheila into the same stance as the poor sod in the video, you can see how the blood could get on her forearm.

[maggie]

I know 

I think I may have used the term 'lacerations' by mistake.  Too much medical jargon in my head, it was the wrong word to use at that time but wasn't intended to mislead.