Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm

[maggie]

It is blood from the neck wound. Sheila had to put her arm out in order to push the trigger and that's how the blood got there.

Incase you missed it. I posted CCTV footage the other day of a man committing suicide with a rifle. He lands in the same position as Sheila with the gun in same position also. For some daft reason it was removed as 'inappropriate' despite the forum having a library full of even more gory and graphic content. 

Sorry you believe it was 'daft' to remove a CCTV video of a young man shooting himself to death but that is just a matter of judgement.

It is true it showed the rifle falling onto his body in a similar position to the rifle on Sheila's body.

I don't think anyone would object if you put up a link to the video as long as you included a warning.


I do not agree with you that the blood trails in the photo you posted up compare with those on Sheila's arm.  I used to believe this was so, in fact I supported Alias and Caroline in a discussion a few years ago however I am now certain that the blood trails on Sheila's arm are from cuts to the skin and nothing to do with her neck wound. 
 
I do agree Sheila may have instinctively put her hand to her neck after the first shot which would account for blood on her hand as mentioned by Vanezis in his first handwritten statement and maybe the bloodied finger marks on her nightie.

[Roch]

It is blood from the neck wound. Sheila had to put her arm out in order to push the trigger and that's how the blood got there.

Firstly, how did the above action lead to the formation of numerous runs on her arm?  Secondly, the circumferance of her arm is certainly not significant in size - so why did the runs not continue until they dripped from her arm?   







Thirdly, how did the runs manage to travel underneath her arm and round to the other side (some of the lower runs must have began on the underside of her arm - yet they terminate almost on the top of her arm?

[Steve_uk]

I might not dispute with you that Sheila pulled the trigger, but with her brother's force guiding her.

[maggie]

Firstly, how did the above action lead to the formation of numerous runs on her arm?  Secondly, the circumferance of her arm is certainly not significant in size - so why did the runs not continue until they dripped from her arm?   







Thirdly, how did the runs manage to travel underneath her arm and round to the other side (some of the lower runs must have began on the underside of her arm - yet they terminate almost on the top of her arm?

Never seen blood run upwards before. Imo the blood obviously runs away from the source which is the dark spot or wound.

[Roch]

I might not dispute with you that Sheila pulled the trigger, but with her brother's force guiding her.

Are you not disputing with David or with me?  I assume with him - as he is a staunch advocate of both shots being suicide related.

It's difficult to mentally place Jeremy in to a scenario, where he physically coerces a Sheila with fighting and scuffling wounds upon her person.

If we take the line of David and others as an alternative - then presumably Jeremy would have also had runs of blood upon his person?

[Roch]

Never seen blood run upwards before.

Maybe it's further defiance of Newton's laws 

[Steve_uk]

Are you not disputing with David or with me?  I assume with him - as he is a staunch advocate of both shots being suicide related.

It's difficult to mentally place Jeremy in to a scenario, where he physically coerces a Sheila with fighting and scuffling wounds upon her person.

If we take the line of David and others as an alternative - then presumably Jeremy would have also had runs of blood upon his person?

She was an exhausted, disoriented woman who had admittedly progressed from knowing that something was wrong with her (when she first ventured into suggesting professional help for herself by asking Colin to make an appointment with a psychiatrist) to having episodes which she couldn't control and didn't understand but which were not physically directed against other people, only a notion that others may have been responsible for the way she had ended up.

Jeremy might well have got blood on his person, some of which he washed off in the upstairs bathroom at White House Farm, where Ann Eaton found the shower head out of place; the other specks of blood had seeped into his jumper, which was discovered in the wardrobe at Bourtree Cottage a month after the killings, but which were too badly degraded for forensic scientist Dr. Hayward to analyse.

[maggie]

She was an exhausted, disoriented woman who had admittedly progressed from knowing that something was wrong with her (when she first ventured into suggesting professional help for herself by asking Colin to make an appointment with a psychiatrist) to having episodes which she couldn't control and didn't understand but which were not physically directed against other people, only a notion that others may have been responsible for the way she had ended up.

Jeremy might well have got blood on his person, some of which he washed off in the upstairs bathroom at White House Farm, where Ann Eaton found the shower head out of place; the other specks of blood had seeped into his jumper, which was discovered in the wardrobe at Bourtree Cottage a month after the killings, but which were too badly degraded for forensic scientist Dr. Hayward to analyse.

I cannot really come to terms with a Sheila who was somehow influenced to kill her family.  How could th a t happen?  She either was capable of murdering or not. She was sick, that is true and she had exhibited real strength and survival against her horrible illness and the horrible drugs she had to take so she was not a pushover who could be bullied against her will.  Whatever happened I believe she deserves respect for her courage in trying to overcome her illness.

If Sheila killed it could have been because she had suffered too much, had just had enough and she snapped OR her medication was not right for her, we are all individuals who react differently to drugs, so it is quite possible that her withdrawn behaviour was a precursor to a psychotic episode where she fought and killed what she saw as her enemies, attackers and tormentors.  OR Jeremy Bamber killed them all and emerged without a scratch.

[Jane]

I cannot really come to terms with a Sheila who was somehow influenced to kill her family.  How could th a t happen?  She either was capable of murdering or not. She was sick, that is true and she had exhibited real strength and survival against her horrible illness and the horrible drugs she had to take so she was not a pushover who could be bullied against her will.  Whatever happened I believe she deserves respect for her courage in trying to overcome her illness.

If Sheila killed it could have been because she had suffered too much, had just had enough and she snapped OR her medication was not right for her, we are all individuals who react differently to drugs, so it is quite possible that her withdrawn behaviour was a precursor to a psychotic episode where she fought and killed what she saw as her enemies, attackers and tormentors.  OR Jeremy Bamber killed them all and emerged without a scratch.

But we don't know that he "emerged without a scratch", do we? I can't believe, as there was always going to be the length of the rifle between him and them, there'd have been many, especially if he'd worn protective clothes -I'm NOT talking wet suits- and I don't believe there'd have been any he couldn't have either hidden until they'd got to healing point OR passed off as something which had happened at work. He had the time to deal with any scratch which MAY have occurred.

[maggie]

But we don't know that he "emerged without a scratch", do we? I can't believe, as there was always going to be the length of the rifle between him and them, there'd have been many, especially if he'd worn protective clothes -I'm NOT talking wet suits- and I don't believe there'd have been any he couldn't have either hidden until they'd got to healing point OR passed off as something which had happened at work. He had the time to deal with any scratch which MAY have occurred.

I take your point Jane however he can't have had any wounds similar to Sheila on his hands and lower arms, they would have been impossible to hide. I am debating from a mind set of belief that the 'blood smears' on Sheila's arm and hand are in fact scratches, scrapes, cuts.  From that point of view it is difficult to believe that anyone could cause such injuries to another without being equally marked by a young woman with long sharp nails fighting for her life   The argument he wore gloves cannot work if he was able to inflict such injuries.
I'm not interested in being in guilty or innocent camp however I am sure those marks on Sheila aren't just blood smears from her neck.

[Adam]

I take your point Jane however he can't have had any wounds similar to Sheila on his hands and lower arms, they would have been impossible to hide. I am debating from a mind set of belief that the 'blood smears' on Sheila's arm and hand are in fact scratches, scrapes, cuts.  From that point of view it is difficult to believe that anyone could cause such injuries to another without being equally marked by a young woman with long sharp nails fighting for her life   The argument he wore gloves cannot work if he was able to inflict such injuries.
I'm not interested in being in guilty or innocent camp however I am sure those marks on Sheila aren't just blood smears from her neck.

The pathologist said Sheila didn't have any injurires.

The 40 pictures show running blood & blood smudges on Sheila. Not injuries.

[maggie]

The pathologist said Sheila didn't have any injurires.

The 40 pictures show running blood & blood smudges on Sheila. Not injuries.

But as I have said before, my pics must be clearer than yours Adam

[Caroline]

Never seen blood run upwards before. Imo the blood obviously runs away from the source which is the dark spot or wound.

But it would be running upward if those dark spots are injuries (which I don't believe they are).

[Caroline]

But as I have said before, my pics must be clearer than yours Adam

I respect that you believe they are injuries however, why didn't Vanezis refer to them in his original notes? His notes were written before any conspiracy grew legs. He mentioned the old cut on her abdomen - why would he mention that and not the 'lacerations' on her arm?

She had blood on her palm which made the print on the bible the trails on her arm lead from her palm to form the trails and the dark spots are just where the blood trail came to an end the the blood thickened and dried.

[maggie]

I respect that you believe they are injuries however, why didn't Vanezis refer to them in his original notes? His notes were written before any conspiracy grew legs. He mentioned the old cut on her abdomen - why would he mention that and not the 'lacerations' on her arm?

She had blood on her palm which made the print on the bible the trails on her arm lead from her palm to form the trails and the dark spots are just where the blood trail came to an end the the blood thickened and dried.

I don't have an  explanation, or inside information. Roch has given at least some of his explanation no doubt based on more info and discussions.
One of the reasons I changed from innocent to guilty was the difficulty in believing why there was a cover up and even if there was it seemed impossible to hold it together for 30 years.. Another was the repetitive, unproven and easily dismissed arguments for innocence. For all that I am in no doubt that Sheila has marks on her hand and arm which indicate that she was in a struggle with someone with sharp nails long enough to scratch and pierce the skin on her right arm.