Author Topic: David1819 - forensic breakthrough claim  (Read 68646 times)

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Offline Stephanie

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Re: David1819 - forensic breakthrough claim
« Reply #165 on: April 06, 2016, 01:50:PM »
Steph
I must not have made myself clear as I think we all should have our own opinions and post them in a pleasant manner I don't like Adam's attitude at times and this is of course just how I perceive his posts I don'texpect posters to agree with me why should they. As far as David is concerned I know nothing about his ego as I have had no dealings with him.  Jeremy could indeed by a psychopath how would I know.

I understand that, I don't like the attitudes of other posters at times.

With regards David's ego, I post my opinion based on what I've read. David doesn't appear to have considered the fact Bamber is (could be to some and not to others) a classic psychopath; for example. Based on my understanding of NGB's post regarding David's findings - it appears technicality based.

NGB's post doesn't state David is right and everyone else is wrong nor does it state he believes Bamber innocent or guilty. It merely outlines David has does some research which he (David) appears to have backed up with supporting evidence and that from NGB's point of view it is a new claim - meaning it hasn't been explored before or put before the courts.

As can be seen from the posts in this thread, david1819 has claimed to have unearthed new evidence, of a forensic nature, which supports the defence case.  As david1819 has explained he sent details initially to Andrew Hunter, with a view to the material being reviewed by Jeremy Bamber's legal team.

There have been claims of an imminent breakthrough since the rejection of the last application to the CCRC and the subsequent  Judicial Review, but understandably there has been increasing scepticism in the absence of any detailed information about this.

In view some of the posts above, understandable in the circumstances, casting doubt on david1819's claim, he contacted me and asked if I would be prepared to review the material he had prepared, in confidence, and give him my opinion of it.  I agreed and received the material, reviewed it and gave david1819 my assessment.  david1819 then agreed that I could post my overall opinion of his work, without at this stage disclosing the details.  I am happy to do that and I agree with david1819's firm view, backed by the advice of Andrew Hunter, that Jeremy Bamber's legal team should review it and it should only be made public subject to their approval.

The material sent to me by david1819 is in the form of a report, which includes images and diagrams as well as text.  It is well written and well presented.  It analyses an important part of the evidence in the case, using methods not applied previously.  Although he accepts that he is not an expert in the relevant field, he has researched published works by experts in the field, quoting relevant extracts in support of his conclusions.  He has also studied relevant photographs and made calculations and measurements using techniques which to me seem appropriate.

david1819's conclusions support the defence case on this issue and specifically counter conclusions reached on this by the Court of Appeal in the 2002 appeal.

I am not an expert in the field involved and clearly for this to be presented to the CCRC as part of new submissions david1819's report and conclusions would have to be reviewed and validated by a suitably qualified expert.  However, I can see no reason to doubt the conclusions reached and have given david1819 my view in more detail.

If the report is validated the question is whether it could form the basis for the CCRC to refer the case.  For various reasons, hard to explain without giving more information than I am able to here, I believe it does satisfy the requirement that it is new evidence, not available at trial.  The key question is whether it is on its own sufficient to enable the convictions to be overturned.  I am very cautious about this as I believe the CCRC have now set a very high bar in this case.  Certainly this would form a valid ground of appeal, but ideally it should be joined with other grounds.  I am no longer in the loop as far as Jeremy Bamber's legal team are concerned, and have not been since Simon McKay ceased acting, but I do know of grounds not included in previous submissions which would have been included had the CCRC referred the case to the Court of Appeal on the last application.   I also understand that other work has been undertaken or is contemplated which may lead to additional grounds, but I have very limited knowledge of this.

I am sorry not to be able to give more detail but I hope members will understand why this is not possible  at this stage.  I will say however that david1819 was genuine in his claim to have discovered something new and important and that he has approached this in a serious and careful way.
 
This does not mean Bamber is innocent.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2016, 01:56:PM by Stephanie »
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Offline susan

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Re: David1819 - forensic breakthrough claim
« Reply #166 on: April 06, 2016, 01:58:PM »
I understand that, I don't like the attitudes of other posters at times.

With regards David's ego, I post my opinion based on what I've read. David doesn't appear to have considered the fact Bamber is (could be to some and not to others) a classic psychopath; for example. Based on my understanding of NGB's post regarding David's findings - it appears technicality based.

NGB's post doesn't state David is right and everyone else is wrong nor does it state he believes Bamber innocent or guilty. It merely outlines David has does some research which he (David) appears to have backed up with supporting evidence and that from NGB's point of view it is a new claim - meaning it hasn't been explored before or put before the courts.

Steph
This does not mean Bamber is innocent.

Steph excellent post and one with which I agree perhaps I did not make myself clear earlier.

John

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Re: David1819 - forensic breakthrough claim
« Reply #167 on: April 06, 2016, 02:00:PM »
As relied upon by the provable facts now available to anyone and everyone...

Untrue, you have no way of proving who did what and when regarding any of the silencers, its all one big conspiracy to you, a bit like a dog with a bone. 

The evidence in the Bamber case is crystal clear, Bamber did it because Sheila couldn't possibly have.  There are no other possibilities.  Unless you come up with credible new evidence to support Bamber could I suggest a few days in Disneyland or even Fantasy World?
« Last Edit: April 06, 2016, 02:03:PM by John »

Offline Stephanie

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Re: David1819 - forensic breakthrough claim
« Reply #168 on: April 06, 2016, 02:07:PM »
Steph excellent post and one with which I agree perhaps I did not make myself clear earlier.

What Ive learned by NGB's posts are that he takes peoples comments/opinions/theories as he finds them. He remains opened minded, impartial and assists where he can.

There's a big difference re the above and the sweeping claims made by posters such as Jackiepreece that NGB believes Bamber to be innocent or indeed guilty.

“The only people who are mad at you for telling the truth are those people who are living a lie. Keep telling the truth"

Offline susan

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Re: David1819 - forensic breakthrough claim
« Reply #169 on: April 06, 2016, 02:11:PM »
What Ive learned by NGB's posts are that he takes peoples comments/opinions/theories as he finds them. He remains opened minded, impartial and assists where he can.

There's a big difference re the above and the sweeping claims made by posters such as Jackiepreece that NGB believes Bamber to be innocent or indeed guilty.

Steph

I agree although I have discussed the case with NGB he has never stated his opinion on Jeremy's innocence or guilt think he keeps an open mind.

Offline mike tesko

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Re: David1819 - forensic breakthrough claim
« Reply #170 on: April 06, 2016, 02:17:PM »
Where?

The more I see regarding Bambers claims of innocence, his CT vlogs, blogs and letters etc, the stronger my belief on his guilt becomes..
The provable facts I am referring to are there for all and everyone to see.  To simplify, one parker hale silencer, SBJ/1 (22), found on 10th August 1985, taken to lab' by Cook for the attention of Howard, who detects human blood. She states there is insufficient blood for testing purposes. Gives SBJ/1 (22) back to Cook, who says he proceeded to carry SBJ/1 (22) around in his coat pocket for the next 17 days. On 15th August 1985, Cook exposes SBJ/1 to the harmful superglue treatment, damaging any prospect of getting any uncontaminated blood group, or much later, uncontaminated DNA results. Still, whilst Cook still retains possession of SBJ/1 (22) he proceeds to strip it down, dismantling it, piece by piece, until he has demonstrated no presence of blood anywhere amongst the separated baffle plates. He photographs all of this. He doesn' t see any blood, he doesn't find any blood. He rebuilds the silencer, and then afixs it directly onto the screw thread on the end of the rifles barrel. What Cook then does is he takes another photograph showing the rebuilt silencer (SBJ/1 - 22) screwed onto the barrel of the gun. What he then purports to do is, he resubmits SBJ/1 (22) back to the lab' on the 30th August, 1985, disguised as DB/1 (23). He already knows there is no blood inside it, because he had stripped it down, examined it with close scrutiny, and took a photograph confirming what he himself had done. Anyway, nobody knows what the lab' did with DB/1 for the next 13 days, until suddenly there is a rush of activity on the 12th September, 1985, with the restripping of DB/1 by Fletcher and Hayward, and the astonishing discovery of the flake of dried blood trapped between baffles 1 and 2. Testing of this flake took place over the next seven days or so. So that by 19th September, 1985, blood expert, Hayward, had obtained 4 distinctive blood groups (A, EAPBA, HP 2-1, and AK1). But, these results were known to be potentially problematic, for example, having been obtained from inside a silencer (DB/1) which had been exposed to the harmful effects of cynoacrylate fumes...

My best guess, is that when 'Ron' Cook dismantled SBJ/1 as mentioned, that he used blood taken from the third blood sample obtained from the neck of Sheila Caffell during autopsy performed on 7th August 1985, and dripped some of this uncontaminated  blood belonging to her, onto the baffles before rebuilding it. The problem he had however, was that he placed uncontaminated blood belonging to Sheila, inside DB/1 (23), which had got contaminated baffle plates, which if the matter had not been addressed would stand out as a deliberate attempt to pervert the course of justice...

That was why, the second decoy silencer (DRB/1) was sent to the lab' on the 20th September, 1985. It was sent because it was needed to become the carrier of Sheila's blood, in an uncontaminated environment (DRB/1). Police / relatives deliberately used this second decoy silencer (DRB/1) to make fresh scratch marks on the kitchen aga back at the farmhouse, because Cook believed that exposure of SBJ/1 (22), to harmful superglue treatment carried out on 15th August, 1985 may have irreparably damaged paint on SBJ/1. So they made new scratches on the aga surround, and sent DRB/1 off to the lab' on the pretense of it being checked for blood and fibers...

The rest is history...
« Last Edit: April 06, 2016, 02:20:PM by mike tesko »
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Offline Stephanie

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Re: David1819 - forensic breakthrough claim
« Reply #171 on: April 06, 2016, 02:23:PM »
Where?

The more I see regarding Bambers claims of innocence, his CT vlogs, blogs and letters etc, the stronger my belief on his guilt becomes..

The usual standard hilarious posts criticising everyone who believes JB is guilty

No you see, you are projecting, as per usual..

I am not criticising anyone, I am giving my opinion. It's not personal. I have already pointed out that to have an opposing view to someone else doesn't make that person an enemy. I can't be any clearer than that.


« Last Edit: April 06, 2016, 02:26:PM by Stephanie »
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Offline Stephanie

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Re: David1819 - forensic breakthrough claim
« Reply #172 on: April 06, 2016, 02:33:PM »
The provable facts I am referring to are there for all and everyone to see.  To simplify, one parker hale silencer, SBJ/1 (22), found on 10th August 1985, taken to lab' by Cook for the attention of Howard, who detects human blood. She states there is insufficient blood for testing purposes. Gives SBJ/1 (22) back to Cook, who says he proceeded to carry SBJ/1 (22) around in his coat pocket for the next 17 days. On 15th August 1985, Cook exposes SBJ/1 to the harmful superglue treatment, damaging any prospect of getting any uncontaminated blood group, or much later, uncontaminated DNA results. Still, whilst Cook still retains possession of SBJ/1 (22) he proceeds to strip it down, dismantling it, piece by piece, until he has demonstrated no presence of blood anywhere amongst the separated baffle plates. He photographs all of this. He doesn' t see any blood, he doesn't find any blood. He rebuilds the silencer, and then afixs it directly onto the screw thread on the end of the rifles barrel. What Cook then does is he takes another photograph showing the rebuilt silencer (SBJ/1 - 22) screwed onto the barrel of the gun. What he then purports to do is, he resubmits SBJ/1 (22) back to the lab' on the 30th August, 1985, disguised as DB/1 (23). He already knows there is no blood inside it, because he had stripped it down, examined it with close scrutiny, and took a photograph confirming what he himself had done. Anyway, nobody knows what the lab' did with DB/1 for the next 13 days, until suddenly there is a rush of activity on the 12th September, 1985, with the restripping of DB/1 by Fletcher and Hayward, and the astonishing discovery of the flake of dried blood trapped between baffles 1 and 2. Testing of this flake took place over the next seven days or so. So that by 19th September, 1985, blood expert, Hayward, had obtained 4 distinctive blood groups (A, EAPBA, HP 2-1, and AK1). But, these results were known to be potentially problematic, for example, having been obtained from inside a silencer (DB/1) which had been exposed to the harmful effects of cynoacrylate fumes...

My best guess, is that when 'Ron' Cook dismantled SBJ/1 as mentioned, that he used blood taken from the third blood sample obtained from the neck of Sheila Caffell during autopsy performed on 7th August 1985, and dripped some of this uncontaminated  blood belonging to her, onto the baffles before rebuilding it. The problem he had however, was that he placed uncontaminated blood belonging to Sheila, inside DB/1 (23), which had got contaminated baffle plates, which if the matter had not been addressed would stand out as a deliberate attempt to pervert the course of justice...

That was why, the second decoy silencer (DRB/1) was sent to the lab' on the 20th September, 1985. It was sent because it was needed to become the carrier of Sheila's blood, in an uncontaminated environment (DRB/1). Police / relatives deliberately used this second decoy silencer (DRB/1) to make fresh scratch marks on the kitchen aga back at the farmhouse, because Cook believed that exposure of SBJ/1 (22), to harmful superglue treatment carried out on 15th August, 1985 may have irreparably damaged paint on SBJ/1. So they made new scratches on the aga surround, and sent DRB/1 off to the lab' on the pretense of it being checked for blood and fibers...

The rest is history...

I've read all this Mike but I don't agree with your opinions/theories.

“The only people who are mad at you for telling the truth are those people who are living a lie. Keep telling the truth"

Offline mike tesko

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Re: David1819 - forensic breakthrough claim
« Reply #173 on: April 06, 2016, 02:36:PM »
Untrue, you have no way of proving who did what and when regarding any of the silencers, its all one big conspiracy to you, a bit like a dog with a bone. 

The evidence in the Bamber case is crystal clear, Bamber did it because Sheila couldn't possibly have.  There are no other possibilities.  Unless you come up with credible new evidence to support Bamber could I suggest a few days in Disneyland or even Fantasy World?

Yes, it is all provable, to anyone, and everyone...

The second decoy silencer (DRB/1) handed to DC 769 OAKEY, by Ann Eaton on the 11th September, 1985, along with three other DRB exhibits (DRB/2, DRB/3, and DRB/4). Its all documented in the police files. That same decoy silencer, fingerprinted by DS Davidson and DS Eastwood on the 13th September, 1985, then along with other items, DRB/1 (second decoy silencer) was sent to the lab' on 20th September, 1985, to ' be checked for blood and fibers'...

All much too late, I am afraid, for the flake to have been inside DRB/1 at the lab' on the 12th September, 1985, eight days earlier than DRB/1 was even sent to the lab. Hold the front page, we haven't done yet, the uncontaminated flake, only then goes and produces four individual blood groups (A, EAPBA, HP 2-1, and AK1) already in the bag by the 19th September, 1985, which if your not intelligent enough to be able to work it out, were all obtained the day before DRB/1 was even sent to the lab' for the very first time...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Stephanie

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Re: David1819 - forensic breakthrough claim
« Reply #174 on: April 06, 2016, 02:37:PM »
I like the new approach.

New evidence is allegedly going to clear Bamber's name according to supporters. But no one knows what this evidence is supposed to be. It's a big secret.

And no one will ever know, unless Bamber gets and wins a CCRC hearing. The COA will then publish their report, as it did in 2002.

David knows NGB knows need I go on do you read other people's posts I think not

Steph excellent post and one with which I agree perhaps I did not make myself clear earlier.

Your post did appear bias Susan.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2016, 03:10:PM by Stephanie »
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Offline mike tesko

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Re: David1819 - forensic breakthrough claim
« Reply #175 on: April 06, 2016, 02:37:PM »
I've read all this Mike but I don't agree with your opinions/theories.

Facts, not opinions, or theories...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline David1819

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Re: David1819 - forensic breakthrough claim
« Reply #176 on: April 06, 2016, 02:37:PM »
How this became a topic about my ego I have no Idea.  ;D

However I would like to point out that first off I made this discovery around three weeks ago now and patiently kept quiet about it other than sharing the information with three other people.

Secondly My Dad recommended I take my findings to the press as I could get money for it, However Andrew told me it would harm the legal process if I did that. Since I have turned down monetary gain for the sake of JBs next appeal bid I don't see how I can be accused of handling this in an egotistical fashion at all.

If Stephanie wants to spend her time reading through my previous forum posts looking for bad examples of my character then that's her problem, Not exactly the most exiting way to spend your afternoon but what ever floats your boat  ;D

Offline mike tesko

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Re: David1819 - forensic breakthrough claim
« Reply #177 on: April 06, 2016, 02:40:PM »
Ask yourselves, when and what date do cops, relatives, and lab' experts start referring to the carrier of the uncontaminated blood flake, by the exhibit reference DRB/1?
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Offline mike tesko

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Re: David1819 - forensic breakthrough claim
« Reply #178 on: April 06, 2016, 02:45:PM »
Ask yourselves, when and what date do cops, relatives, and lab' experts start referring to the carrier of the uncontaminated blood flake, by the exhibit reference DRB/1?

Not until after the third submission of a silencer to the lab' on the 20th September, 1985...

1st submission to lab' - 13th August, 1985, (SBJ/1 - 22)
2nd submission to lab' - 30th August, 1985, (DB/1 - 23)
3rd submission to lab' - 20th September, 1985, (DRB/1 - 22)
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: David1819 - forensic breakthrough claim
« Reply #179 on: April 06, 2016, 02:49:PM »
How come, nobody at the lab' acknowledges the receipt of DRB/1 at the lab' on and after the 20th September, 1985? How come nobody examines it, or checks it for blood and fibers? How come we don't have a diagram of it bearing signatures, and dates, or whatever?

Where are the results, and the conclusions, from its inspection?
« Last Edit: April 06, 2016, 02:51:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...