strange answers to the psycopath test.

[nugnug]

i allways thougt there was somthing wrong with this test.

https://youtu.be/xYemnKEKx0c

[sandra L]

Interesting video, nugnug. Too many of these so-called "psychological measures" are too subjective to be even remotely reliable. For example, "glib and superficial charm" - who decides what's glib and superficial, what's "real" and what's just used for a particular set of circumstances, like having to be nice to a work colleague you really don't like? Or, absence of guilt or feigned guilt - can't win on this one - if the person shows guilt, they're "feigning" and must be a psychopath, if they don't show guilt... they must be a psychopath!!!! One that cracks me up is the "emotional response" indicator - they don't react "normally" to distressing emotional circumstances, leading us to have to believe that there is, in fact, a "normal" response (or set of responses) that "most people" would display.

Most of the perceived behaviours (or lack thereof) are nothing more than someone's opinion, based on that someone's own life experience, values, expectations etc.

Another "psychological measure" that bothers me is "micro expression" for exactly the same reasons - who can really tell what a fleeting, micro-second expression actually conveys? Apparently, according to the pseudo-science, some very clever people can be taught to recognise and read these expressions, but it was still an ordinary human being who decided in the first place what they thought those expressions meant - I mean, how could they possibly prove it?

When these theories begin to filter down through popular media, they lose all semblance of "science" and become just another way to label people as a means of justifying our own prejudices.

[lookout]

Brilliant and to the point post,Sandra.

Pre-judging is a dangerous practice.

[nugnug]

i love the fact he was described as anti socail for not wanting to mix with murders and rapists.

you basicaly make anybody sound like a pyscopath if you want.

[guest7363]

i allways thougt there was somthing wrong with this test.

https://youtu.be/xYemnKEKx0c

Interesting video Nugs, Tony reminds me of someone I know who is in prison, all of a sudden he has convinced (or is trying to convince) staff he has Bipolar stage1, having not shown any signs of this in his last 40 years.  This he thinks will keep his job when he comes out and excuse him for his actions.

Most tests are flawed and and open to abuse whether it being a polygraph test or psychopath test, all we can go on is the experts that work in that field and how good an expert they really are.  I thought it was a proven fact that Bamber has passed numerous tests for being a psychopath?  Are you now saying these tests he has taken are unreliable and should be ignored?

[guest2181]

Interesting video Nugs, Tony reminds me of someone I know who is in prison, all of a sudden he has convinced (or is trying to convince) staff he has Bipolar stage1, having not shown any signs of this in his last 40 years.  This he thinks will keep his job when he comes out and excuse him for his actions.

Most tests are flawed and and open to abuse whether it being a polygraph test or psychopath test, all we can go on is the experts that work in that field and how good an expert they really are.  I thought it was a proven fact that Bamber has passed numerous tests for being a psychopath?  Are you now saying these tests he has taken are unreliable and should be ignored?

Sometimes things are not always reported accurately.

Back in 2008, Jeremy appealed against a refusal to have his prison status downgraded and a Judge ruled that: "The review team had not been perverse to accept psychological reports showing category A status was justified".

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,7435.msg350318.html#msg350318

So despite the claims that Jeremy has had all of these tests which 'allegedly' show that he isn't a psychopath, a review team and a judge has decided that either he is a psychopath, or he has other psychological issues/disorder(s) which they have used to justify his status as a category 'A' prisoner.

Clearly his attempts to throw off his psychopathic tendencies, shows that he is manipulative and reinforces his status as a psychopath. 

[lookout]

Not necessarily Hartley.

[sandra L]

I thought it was a proven fact that Bamber has passed numerous tests for being a psychopath?  Are you now saying these tests he has taken are unreliable and should be ignored?

No, that's not what I'm saying. I didn't know JB had passed "numerous tests," and even now that you have made me aware of this, I still couldn't say they are unreliable and should be ignored because I know nothing of the tests themselves, how they were carried out, by whom, or what factors were considered... etc etc.

I agree that many tests are flawed and open to abuse - that was the point I as trying to make in my earlier post. We don't (and can't, in my opinion) have a concrete science to predict or conclude what's going on in someone else's mind, therefore, we have to be extremely careful how much reliance is placed on results of tests such as these on both sides of the argument.

[sandra L]

So despite the claims that Jeremy has had all of these tests which 'allegedly' show that he isn't a psychopath, a review team and a judge has decided that either he is a psychopath, or he has other psychological issues/disorder(s) which they have used to justify his status as a category 'A' prisoner.

Clearly his attempts to throw off his psychopathic tendencies, shows that he is manipulative and reinforces his status as a psychopath

Did Jeremy have these tests, and did they conclude he is "not a psychopath?" (Sorry, I'm not up to speed on all of the developments in the case over the years.)

If those were the conclusions, then the decision makers (judge and review team) are also displaying psychopathic traits - superiority, incongruity, contradiction, contempt and manipulation 

[guest2181]

No, that's not what I'm saying. I didn't know JB had passed "numerous tests," and even now that you have made me aware of this, I still couldn't say they are unreliable and should be ignored because I know nothing of the tests themselves, how they were carried out, by whom, or what factors were considered... etc etc.

I agree that many tests are flawed and open to abuse - that was the point I as trying to make in my earlier post. We don't (and can't, in my opinion) have a concrete science to predict or conclude what's going on in someone else's mind, therefore, we have to be extremely careful how much reliance is placed on results of tests such as these on both sides of the argument.

That kinda sounds all very sensible, but the reality is (at least in the JB case), that there is no reliance or even consideration of any such tests, other than prison authorities monitoring prisoners health and well being as part of their duty of care.

[Stephanie]

Did Jeremy have these tests, and did they conclude he is "not a psychopath?" (Sorry, I'm not up to speed on all of the developments in the case over the years.)

If those were the conclusions, then the decision makers (judge and review team) are also displaying psychopathic traits - superiority, incongruity, contradiction, contempt and manipulation 

Or, of course, on the other hand, these could be your own projections 

We don't (and can't, in my opinion) have a concrete science to predict or conclude what's going on in someone else's mind, therefore, we have to be extremely careful how much reliance is placed on results of tests such as these on both sides of the argument.

When these theories begin to filter down through popular media, they lose all semblance of "science" and become just another way to label people as a means of justifying our own prejudices.

If those were the conclusions, then the decision makers (judge and review team) are also displaying psychopathic traits - superiority, incongruity, contradiction, contempt and manipulation 

? ?

[lookout]

Did Jeremy have these tests, and did they conclude he is "not a psychopath?" (Sorry, I'm not up to speed on all of the developments in the case over the years.)








If those were the conclusions, then the decision makers (judge and review team) are also displaying psychopathic traits - superiority, incongruity, contradiction, contempt and manipulation 

------------Bravo !

[David1819]

Sometimes things are not always reported accurately.

Back in 2008, Jeremy appealed against a refusal to have his prison status downgraded and a Judge ruled that: "The review team had not been perverse to accept psychological reports showing category A status was justified".

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,7435.msg350318.html#msg350318

So despite the claims that Jeremy has had all of these tests which 'allegedly' show that he isn't a psychopath, a review team and a judge has decided that either he is a psychopath, or he has other psychological issues/disorder(s) which they have used to justify his status as a category 'A' prisoner.

Clearly his attempts to throw off his psychopathic tendencies, shows that he is manipulative and reinforces his status as a psychopath. 

Professor Vincent Egan concludes that Jeremy is not a psychopath

https://www.nottingham.ac.uk/medicine/about/psychiatryandappliedpsychology/people/vincent.egan

If this guy is prepared to put his reputation on the line claiming Jeremy is not a psychopath, then that's something that needs to considered.

Jeremy not being a psychopath does not preclude guilt and Jeremy being a psychopath does not prove guilt either. Its a rather meaningless debate.

If Jeremy is guilty I believe he has psychogenic amnesia. His crime and behaviour as a whole throughout his life is not consistent with that of classic psychopaths such as Ted Bundy and John Cannan for example.

[nugnug]

i  dident actully have jeremy in mind specficaly ehen when i posted this

[Stephanie]

Professor Vincent Egan concludes that Jeremy is not a psychopath

https://www.nottingham.ac.uk/medicine/about/psychiatryandappliedpsychology/people/vincent.egan

If this guy is prepared to put his reputation on the line claiming Jeremy is not a psychopath, then that's something that needs to considered.

Jeremy not being a psychopath does not preclude guilt and Jeremy being a psychopath does not prove guilt either. Its a rather meaningless debate.

If Jeremy is guilty I believe he has psychogenic amnesia. His crime and behaviour as a whole throughout his life is not consistent with that of classic psychopaths such as Ted Bundy and John Cannan for example.

Maybe Sandra can give her opinion on what you've posted David.

"Professor Vincent Egan, a chartered forensic and clinical psychologist, of Glasgow Caledonian University, who has followed the Jones murder, says it is possible to point to several factors that could have led to Mitchell becoming a killer."

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/12401131.WHY___Silent_and_defiant_to_the_end__Luke_Mitchell_denied_the_family_of_Jodi_Jones_the_one_answer_they_needed/

"Murders of this kind are unusual but we see similarities in the background of Mitchell and in the backgrounds of other delinquent kids going off the rails. With drugs, there's no casual experimentation, he's using drugs in really a chronic way; he's carrying weapons, and that's not unusual in people who murder.

"Of course, most people with that profile don't commit murder, but there is no doubt that Mitchell was a troubled kid. There was a ritualistic aspect to this killing."

Mitchell, born on July 24, 1988, was the younger of two sons. His brother Shane - who was to be a significant figure in the case - had been born eight years earlier in 1980, the year his parents were married at Corstorphine Old Church in Edinburgh. In the semi-detached home in Newbattle, Dalkeith, life seemed relatively normal: his father Philip was an electrician and his mother Corinne ran a caravan park. Teachers in the local primary school knew Luke as a bright and attentive pupil.

It was in his later years, as an adolescent, that his demeanour and his interests changed. At the Catholic St David's High School in Dalkeith, his teachers became so concerned about his behaviour that they say they advised psychiatric help. According to evidence given at the trial, the bright and popular pupil had become something of a loner who disrupted class and argued openly with his teachers. In an essay, titled Pain And Suffering, he wrote: "If God forgives everyone, then why the need to be sent to hell? If you ask me, God is just a futile excuse, at the most, for a bunch of fools to go around annoying others who want nothing to do with them.

"Are these people insane? Open your eyes.

People like you need satanic people like me to keep the balance. Once you shake hands with the Devil then you have truly experienced life."

After this, his English teacher Geraldine Mackie referred him to the school guidance teacher.

Ian Stephen, another forensic psychologist, who was a consultant to the TV programme Cracker, says: "Children who kill like this are few and far between but they tend to be reasonably intelligent children. Mitchell, by all accounts, was considered an intelligent boy. People like that are usually loners who are isolated or different from their peer groups. Often there are unusual circumstances in their family life. There is very clear evidence for all of this in this case."

He adds that in other rare instances where children have killed other youngsters - Mary Bell, and Jamie Bulger's murderers, Jon Venables and Robert Thompson - they have been considered to have been bright.

In the case of Bell, who was found guilty in 1968 of killing two young boys in Newcastle, she went out to help in the search for her victims after they had been reported missing.

It was this same act that led to Mitchell's downfall. His crucial mistake was to join the search for Jodi and then to "find" her at a place that nobody else had thought to look.

Stephen says: "When Mary Bell killed, she helped to look for the babies. To some extent it's about making yourself visible. There is an element of maintaining contact with the crime.

It's like making a hoax call to the fire brigade and staying to watch the fire engines turn up.

"In the Mitchell case, the murder may not have been a game but it may be that this has been done to act out his fantasies. Kids, and adolescents especially, have fantasies of killing. Most don't act on them but you find very often that serial killers will have had fantasies of killing which started in childhood."

With unbelievable speed of thought and coolness, 14-year-old Mitchell set about putting his cover-up plan in place almost immediately after he murdered Jodi. At 5.40pm he calmly phoned Jodi's house and spoke to Mrs Jones's partner, Allen Ovens. He asked for Jodi and was told that she had already left to meet him. Nobody in the house realised that it was, by then, some 50 minutes since Jodi had left, and no alarm bells sounded. Mitchell's alibi was that he has hung around, in and about his home, waiting for Jodi and eventually went off with some friends when she did not turn up. The group went to nearby woods to smoke cannabis. At no point was there a hint that Mitchell was agitated or distressed.

At 10.40, some 40 minutes after Jodi should have been home, the alarm bells began to ring.

Her mother sent a text message, intended for Jodi, to Luke's mobile phone. Using her pet name for her daughter of "Toad", the text said:

"Two weeks grounding Toad, say bye to Luke."

Again, with a composure that belied his age, Mitchell phoned back to say he had not seen Jodi all night. Panic set in, and Mrs Jones began phoning friends and relatives, and reported Jodi missing to police. During the calls, Mitchell agreed to search the path from the Newbattle end, and meet up with Jodi's grandmother, Alice Walker, her sister Janine and Janine's fiance Steven Kelly. What happened next became the crucial aspect of the trial.

Using torches in the dark, Mitchell began to search for the missing girl with his German shepherd dog Mia. In his statement to police, he said: "We walked past the V-shaped break in the wall and a few yards past that, not even 20 yards past that, Mia stopped and put her nose in the air and put her paws up on the wall as if trying to sniff over." He then went across the wall alone and continued searching. The statement continued: "I saw this white thing stuck out in the light. I could see it was legs, like a tailor's dummy. After I saw legs I just took another step then I recognised it was a body lying there. I could see it was female. There was blood on the neck. She was naked."

But three witnesses at the trial said there was no way Mitchell that night had gone anything like the distance beyond the V and then come back. He had headed straight to the V, gone over and immediately turned to his left rather than to the right or walked straight ahead. It was the fact that Mitchell appeared to know where to find the body and to see it from such a long way in the dark that led the jury to believe that only if he had known she was there in the first place would he have found her body.

Even as the verdict was announced, Mitchell never abandoned his cool demeanour. Despite being the subject of intense police and media scrutiny for more than 18 months, and especially in the first months after the murder, he did not crack.

As Luke was merely 14 years old, speculation is forming around Corinne Mitchell that she may have played more of a part in the murder than just the role of a mother. Police believe the 45-year-old's relationship with her son changed from parent to that of accomplice. Mrs Mitchell had claimed Luke had been cooking dinner at the time of the murder, even though her older son Shane said he thought the house was empty.

Some have said that the relationship between Luke and Corinne Mitchell went beyond the "normal" mother-son bond. The relationship was said to be extraordinarily physically close.

When police arrived to arrest the teenager they found him sharing a bedroom with his mother.

Continued here http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/12401131.WHY___Silent_and_defiant_to_the_end__Luke_Mitchell_denied_the_family_of_Jodi_Jones_the_one_answer_they_needed/