Neville's call to Jeremy. A 1% likelihood ?

[susan]

Someone did suggest that the covers on the far bed in Sheila's room may have been pulled up by Jeremy after the shootings which would imply that Sheila had not gone to bed that night but had been wandering about in a murderous mood? 
As for the teddy, I believe JB was telling the truth and it was Nevill's teddy bear.  He would probably not have had a teddy when he was young because they weren't really around when he was young, they were called teddy after Theodore Roosevelt so he may have had that one as a present for a joke at some time  however, don't believe he slept with it.

Maggie
had all this happened Jeremy would have not expected to find Sheila in June's bed so he would have had to do some quick thinking staging Sheila making beds staging Ralph downstairs cleaning himself up staging Ralph downstairs back to the cottage on foot and appearing calm for his phone call to EP he must be one very cool customer to do this after just murdering his whole family just not ringing true IMO.

[Jane]

to be fair there were very varying reports about her . Colin said she was contributing to the arrangements of the party. He did not describe problems in that respect immediately before the murders.

During the afternoon she was allegedly not with it, as in taking no notice, ignoring one of the twins when he climbed on her lap. He wasn't with her on the days prior to that but one friend described her as looking unclean and unkempt, hair unwashed, no make up................although she had made an effort the following day. She was silent all the way to WHF. It must have made for a terrible atmosphere in the car.

[maggie]

Maggie
had all this happened Jeremy would have not expected to find Sheila in June's bed so he would have had to do some quick thinking staging Sheila making beds staging Ralph downstairs cleaning himself up staging Ralph downstairs back to the cottage on foot and appearing calm for his phone call to EP he must be one very cool customer to do this after just murdering his whole family just not ringing true IMO.

I do agree but then I have always found it hard to believe that he could have crawled through the window, killed all five people even if Nevill was in his expected place he still got away and ran downstairs.... the risk of taking on Nevill was so massive..... fighting over the rifle with Nevill, bashing poor him with the rifle without a mark on him and dashing back over the fields etc. and the rest is history....  it's very difficult to take on board and that is the problem for me.
There is always the feeling if he was involved he wasn't alone but I cannot believe it was Sheila because unless psychotic she just wouldn't have done it. She wouldn't have calmly planned it because it would have been crazy for her to believe she could overcome Nevill and she would never have killed her children in her right mind......   

[Jane]

I have a feeling I wont get the pm and the transition will be extremely slow.

If he's had the problem for some time -and it's not difficult to imagine he has- he'll probably need a little encouragement, Jan

[Steve_uk]

I do agree but then I have always found it hard to believe that he could have crawled through the window, killed all five people even if Nevill was in his expected place he still got away and ran downstairs.... the risk of taking on Nevill was so massive..... fighting over the rifle with Nevill, bashing poor him with the rifle without a mark on him and dashing back over the fields etc. and the rest is history....  it's very difficult to take on board and that is the problem for me.
There is always the feeling if he was involved he wasn't alone but I cannot believe it was Sheila because unless psychotic she just wouldn't have done it. She wouldn't have calmly planned it because it would have been crazy for her to believe she could overcome Nevill and she would never have killed her children in her right mind......   

Remember Nevill was a shadow of his former self those last few months of his life,as reported by farm secretary Barbara Wilson,which would have made it easier for Jeremy to confront him.

[Caroline]

Remember Nevill was a shadow of his former self those last few months of his life,as reported by farm secretary Barbara Wilson,which would have made it easier for Jeremy to confront him.

He had a back problem.

[maggie]

Remember Nevill was a shadow of his former self those last few months of his life,as reported by farm secretary Barbara Wilson,which would have made it easier for Jeremy to confront him.

I know Neville was already wounded and possibly on his knees by the time he was attacked with the / rifle but it was still massively demanding to do all that run home and turn up cool as a cucumber outside the house with the police.....

[David1819]

Neville's call to Jeremy. A 1% likelihood ? Its safe to say a call was made from WHF to Jeremy's house. As Jeremy assumes the telecom provider can prove such a call happened. So its either Neville calling Jeremy from WHF or Jeremy calling his house from WHF till the answer machine picks up.

[Jane]

I know Neville was already wounded and possibly on his knees by the time he was attacked with the / rifle but it was still massively demanding to do all that run home and turn up cool as a cucumber outside the house with the police.....

Maggie, I suspect you're imagining how YOU'D have felt but it may help you to try to imagine Jeremy, having successfully carried out something he'd planned to do for a long time and feeling pleased with himself. We don't know exactly WHEN the murders occurred but we can assume that he'd have given himself time to get home in comfort, pour a drink, shower, change his clothes before calling the police.

[scipio_usmc]

I do agree but then I have always found it hard to believe that he could have crawled through the window, killed all five people even if Nevill was in his expected place he still got away and ran downstairs.... the risk of taking on Nevill was so massive..... fighting over the rifle with Nevill, bashing poor him with the rifle without a mark on him and dashing back over the fields etc. and the rest is history....  it's very difficult to take on board and that is the problem for me.
There is always the feeling if he was involved he wasn't alone but I cannot believe it was Sheila because unless psychotic she just wouldn't have done it. She wouldn't have calmly planned it because it would have been crazy for her to believe she could overcome Nevill and she would never have killed her children in her right mind......   

Siblings that kill their parents come in two varieties:

1) Siblings who have a joint hate for their parents and are aware of their joint hatred

2) One sibling has significant away over the other siblings and calls the shots and the others simply do what they are told.  Most often this is true with an idolized older brother but there are other paradigms.

What you find is that the siblings are closer to one another than the parents.  Sheila and Jeremy were not close, they do not fit any of the patterns at all.  So as you have observed there is simply no realistic way to say Sheila was involved.

But Jeremy didn't need anyone's help anyway.  He picked the middle of the night so that he would not have to confront all of the victims the same time in the same place. He didn't need anyone to sucker victims to their death, he went to them. He did't need an inside man to provide the layout of the house etc he had the requisite knowledge and access. The only aid he could have used was with respect to an an alibi and he used Julie for that to the extent he could. Calling her to tell her Nevill phoned was supposed to be proof Nevill called him. Julie chose not to frame the call in such manner because then police might think she understood he was using her to support his alibi but that is what it was for though he called to discuss his excitement as well. He could not contain his excitement and that could be what delayed him calling police he needed time to calm down and prepare to pretend to be scared and upset- that and he needed to work out exactly what he wanted to say to them.



   

[Jane]

Neville's call to Jeremy. A 1% likelihood ? Its safe to say a call was made from WHF to Jeremy's house. As Jeremy assumes the telecom provider can prove such a call happened. So its either Neville calling Jeremy from WHF or Jeremy calling his house from WHF till the answer machine picks up.

If I was asked to read that and give an opinion I'd HAVE to say that he'd been banking on the call being verified to back him up, and when he found out it wasn't possible to do, it rather knocked the wind from his sails.

[scipio_usmc]

Neville's call to Jeremy. A 1% likelihood ? Its safe to say a call was made from WHF to Jeremy's house. As Jeremy assumes the telecom provider can prove such a call happened. So its either Neville calling Jeremy from WHF or Jeremy calling his house from WHF till the answer machine picks up.

You are ignoring that Jeremy could have simply lied to police pretending he thought they would be able to tell to make it look good.

We have no idea whether he was sincere or not when he claimed to them such belief.

IF he honestly believed it then it means he called his answering machine or left the phone dialing till he got home but only he knows if he did such.  Since the digital phones had the ability to redial the last number but the dial phone didn't and the dial phone was the one left in the kitchen I tend to think he intentionally made sure the dial phone was off the hook so they would figure Nevill used that phone and that there would be no way to prove he didn't call Jeremy.  He repeatedly told police they could not not prove the call didn't happen.  He wasn't as worried about providing solid proof it did. He felt them no being able to prove via the phone technology that it didn't would be sufficient.

 

[maggie]

Maggie, I suspect you're imagining how YOU'D have felt but it may help you to try to imagine Jeremy, having successfully carried out something he'd planned to do for a long time and feeling pleased with himself. We don't know exactly WHEN the murders occurred but we can assume that he'd have given himself time to get home in comfort, pour a drink, shower, change his clothes before calling the police.

I understand what you're saying, I cannot imagine  how he would feel but I accept he would feel differently than myself because I would never have left the house in the first place 
I guess if he wanted to do it or enjoyed it that puts a different spin on it, for that he  would need to be psychopathic/disordered and he may be. We can guess but we don't know.

[Caroline]

You are ignoring that Jeremy could have simply lied to police pretending he thought they would be able to tell to make it look good.

We have no idea whether he was sincere or not when he claimed to them such belief.

IF he honestly believed it then it means he called his answering machine or left the phone dialing till he got home but only he knows if he did such.  Since the digital phones had the ability to redial the last number but the dial phone didn't and the dial phone was the one left in the kitchen I tend to think he intentionally made sure the dial phone was off the hook so they would figure Nevill used that phone and that there would be no way to prove he didn't call Jeremy.  He repeatedly told police they could not not prove the call didn't happen.  He wasn't as worried about providing solid proof it did. He felt them no being able to prove via the phone technology that it didn't would be sufficient.

 

I agree with that, I think he knew it couldn't be traced. It's not like that kind of information was a closely guarded secret.

[maggie]

If I was asked to read that and give an opinion I'd HAVE to say that he'd been banking on the call being verified to back him up, and when he found out it wasn't possible to do, it rather knocked the wind from his sails.

I agree that's the impression I get reading it.