Ending the SJ/1 nonsense once and for all

[scipio_usmc]

when the relatives handed the silencer in there must have been some record made of weather there was blood on the outside or not.

Jones took it because of it looked like it had blood on it.  He didn't want the scope and bullets because there was nothing on them that looked like blood. If it didn't have anything on it he likely would not have even been willing to take it. After Julie came forward they were much more willing to take whatever potential evidence they could to examine.

[scipio_usmc]

OK. so I've got the posts in the wrong order. YOU said Jeremy didn't implicate Sheila. I gave examples of where he did. YOU then make excuses for why he did. Call it what you like, Lookout, ie suggestion by osmosis, subliminal messaging, implicit suggestions or good old fashioned implication. It all amounts to the same thing which was a lot more damning than just saying she wasn't well.

He didn't tell police that after her 1983 treatment she had one episode as a result of not taking her medication so was put on injections.  He told them she would have episodes at a moments notice implying it happened frequently.  The whole way in which he approached the issue was contrived as opposed to a loving brother.

Telling police she would shoot him if she saw him was obviously calculated as well.  not only did he exaggerate her mental problems and violent tendencies though he lied about her having fired all the weapons in the house and having been trained to use the murder weapon.

[lookout]

Say what you like but NOBODY saw this coming. Sheila had part of her medication intramuscularly simply because she couldn't be trusted to take it orally ( what does that tell you ?),and as it was,what bit of Haldol she had left in her system was as good as useless when she was smoking heavily on cannabis ( hence her nicotine-stained fingers ) which would have counteracted any anti-psychotic medication.
Jeremy only found out about the extent of her illness by reading up about it in prison,and the police wouldn't have known,they're only just learning about mental illness now 30 years on !!

[nugnug]

Jones took it because of it looked like it had blood on it.  He didn't want the scope and bullets because there was nothing on them that looked like blood. If it didn't have anything on it he likely would not have even been willing to take it. After Julie came forward they were much more willing to take whatever potential evidence they could to examine.

but surely when the sent it for testing the knew weather it had blood on the outside or not.

[maggie]

He didn't tell police that after her 1983 treatment she had one episode as a result of not taking her medication so was put on injections.  He told them she would have episodes at a moments notice implying it happened frequently.  The whole way in which he approached the issue was contrived as opposed to a loving brother.

Telling police she would shoot him if she saw him was obviously calculated as well.  not only did he exaggerate her mental problems and violent tendencies though he lied about her having fired all the weapons in the house and having been trained to use the murder weapon.

How do you know she only had one episode, no offence but how can anyone know that?

[scipio_usmc]

Say what you like but NOBODY saw this coming. Sheila had part of her medication intramuscularly simply because she couldn't be trusted to take it orally ( what does that tell you ?),and as it was,what bit of Haldol she had left in her system was as good as useless when she was smoking heavily on cannabis ( hence her nicotine-stained fingers ) which would have counteracted any anti-psychotic medication.
Jeremy only found out about the extent of her illness by reading up about it in prison,and the police wouldn't have known,they're only just learning about mental illness now 30 years on !!

She smoked pot before she traveled to WHF.  The tox tests revealed none was active in her system there was just the background remnants which revealed she used it 4-7 days prior.  There is no evidence of it inhibiting the Haldol even when she was actively smoking it but there was no possibility of it doing anything to her many days after.  this is just something you made up because you are are desperate to pretend Sheila did it and that your great guy Jeremy didn't.

It wouldn't matter if she was off her Haldol she still could not have done it. If she killed everyone else then there would have been evidence on her body proving it and it is impossible for her to have killed herself. 

You excuse all of Jeremy's lies which he had no reason to tell other than if he was responsible and all the evidence that matters simply deciding you don't think he would do it and that Sheila would. That is your simplistic position even as you try to dress it up with other things like the fake claim Sheila used pot around the time of the murders and it would have prevented her Haldol from working.  Her doctor said using it days earlier would not do so.

[scipio_usmc]

How do you know she oh had one episode, no offence but how can anyone know that?

There is only one episode that was reported after she left the hospital in 1983. The record thus establishes only one episode.  The burden of proof of proving she had more rests with those who want to establish it. 

Various made up things like the monastery claim were used to try to pretend there were more instances but the only documented ones are the 2 that resulted in her hospitalizations. 

The month before police changed gears they tried finding evidence of Sheila having episodes and all they could find were those 2 that resulted in her hospitalizations.  The defense would have liked to find more instances but didn't either.

So we are stuck with the record.

[Jane]

Say what you like but NOBODY saw this coming. Sheila had part of her medication intramuscularly simply because she couldn't be trusted to take it orally ( what does that tell you ?),and as it was,what bit of Haldol she had left in her system was as good as useless when she was smoking heavily on cannabis ( hence her nicotine-stained fingers ) which would have counteracted any anti-psychotic medication.
Jeremy only found out about the extent of her illness by reading up about it in prison,and the police wouldn't have known,they're only just learning about mental illness now 30 years on !!

Lookout, I don't know what is your yard-stick for Sheila "smoking heavily on cannabis" as the autopsy didn't seem to present a heavy dependence on it - I recall my own fingers being stained with nicotine from bog standard baccy-  and Jeremy seemed to have a good enough working knowledge of her illness long before he was in prison.

[nugnug]

what wer the relatives hoping to find when they looked in the cupboard in the first place

[lookout]

She smoked pot before she traveled to WHF.  The tox tests revealed none was active in her system there was just the background remnants which revealed she used it 4-7 days prior.  There is no evidence of it inhibiting the Haldol even when she was actively smoking it but there was no possibility of it doing anything to her many days after.  this is just something you made up because you are are desperate to pretend Sheila did it and that your great guy Jeremy didn't.

It wouldn't matter if she was off her Haldol she still could not have done it. If she killed everyone else then there would have been evidence on her body proving it and it is impossible for her to have killed herself. 

You excuse all of Jeremy's lies which he had no reason to tell other than if he was responsible and all the evidence that matters simply deciding you don't think he would do it and that Sheila would. That is your simplistic position even as you try to dress it up with other things like the fake claim Sheila used pot around the time of the murders and it would have prevented her Haldol from working.  Her doctor said using it days earlier would not do so.

Who's desperate ? Only those who are arguing against me as far as I can see. I couldn't give a flying **** one way or the other.

Doctors aren't right ALL of the time you know. There'll always be margins of error,as in this case where mental illness is concerned and the doctor didn't give much away because of patient confidentiality.

However,the focus was only on Jeremy anyway because there were two people who couldn't speak and about a dozen who made up for that fact,who'd pretended to know the family when they only met once a year if they were lucky. It was they who made things up to keep the focus on Jeremy which suited EP.

[Jane]

what wer the relatives hoping to find when they looked in the cupboard in the first place

I think the answer to that is ANYTHING the police might have missed, which could prove useful. I believe they said as much.

[nugnug]

why did they think the police had missed anything.

[lookout]

Lookout, I don't know what is your yard-stick for Sheila "smoking heavily on cannabis" as the autopsy didn't seem to present a heavy dependence on it - I recall my own fingers being stained with nicotine from bog standard baccy-  and Jeremy seemed to have a good enough working knowledge of her illness long before he was in prison.

I've been smoking for years but you wouldn't think so. However,her lungs were also congested,which would account for her heavier smoking during the last 12 months before her death.
I'd imagine that Jeremy read up about schizophrenia,which he very probably knew nothing about.   

[Jane]

Who's desperate ? Only those who are arguing against me as far as I can see. I couldn't give a flying **** one way or the other.

Doctors aren't right ALL of the time you know. There'll always be margins of error,as in this case where mental illness is concerned and the doctor didn't give much away because of patient confidentiality.

However,the focus was only on Jeremy anyway because there were two people who couldn't speak and about a dozen who made up for that fact,who'd pretended to know the family when they only met once a year if they were lucky. It was they who made things up to keep the focus on Jeremy which suited EP.

So what it amounts to is this? EVERY expert in their field, YEARS of experience between them, regarding Sheila's mental health, is wrong. Lookout, who did some psych nursing as part of her ongoing training, is right?

[Jane]

I've been smoking for years but you wouldn't think so. However,her lungs were also congested,which would account for her heavier smoking during the last 12 months before her death.
I'd imagine that Jeremy read up about schizophrenia,which he very probably knew nothing about.

He couldn't lose then, could he? If HE with a mentally ill sister knew nothing about her illness, I think it safe to say that those police present weren't too well versed in it either.