Ending the SJ/1 nonsense once and for all

[Jan]

April brought up Heroin on this thread. The evidence is Jeremy boasted about smuggling heroin. 

I don't consider Caroline's question important. There were several people inside WHF. They were not all following each other around and would have been in different rooms.

Didn't PE say 'I've found the silencer' ? Which suggests there was no one else around. I have just answered Caroline's question.

You have not PM'd me. If you don't want to PM me for support before changing stance, that is you're choice. However you must change stance. Continuing to support Jeremy is 'creepy'.

And stop telling me what to bring up.

stick to discussing and I might gain an ounce of respect for your opinion. The thread was going along quite nicely thank you.

[scipio_usmc]

f you dont belve the sllincer evedence then you have to conclude the slencer was planted if you belive the silencer was planted t coud only have been planted by the relatives if thats the case then it has to call into qustion all there other evedence.

No one who believes the family planted the blood has articulated how they came up with it and accomplished it. Planting both paint and blood makes little sense unless one doesn't appreciate the significance of the blood relating to drawback.  Only the lab had the expertise to plant the blood on the baffles and understand the significance of doing so.  So basically ope would have to argue the family planted the blood inside the opening that was tested by Howard and the paint while the blood used for type testing was planted by the lab and the lab also concealed the finding of blood in the rifle.  Those notion all of this happened is quite remote and there is zero evidence to prove it happened so even if you choose to believe this happened it doesn't have any broader implications than what you choose to believe. 

[Jan]

Police didn't ask him to include it until later when they realized they screwed up and wanted to document the hair was there and that it was lost later.  If one is suggesting he made it up then the fact he mentioned it right away is evidence cutting against it.  The whole hair issue though is a waste of time.

The defense essentially conceded the moderator was used by arguing the blood inside was Nevill and June's.

Let's say both sides were to agree the hair got on the moderator during the murders and not after by sticking it in the closet.  What would such demonstrate?   Would it demonstrate Sheila was killed before Nevill and thus that Sheila didn't kill him? No, the prosecution argued Sheila or the boys were killed last in spite of the hair.  So even if the hair attached during the murders it establishes nothing significant and there is no way to prove it attached during as opposed to after.  So I see no potential value at all of this hair.

It also could have been an animal hair - it was a farm and had cats dogs and allegedly even rats. Perhaps if it had not been handled in a kitchen roll we would know.

[nugnug]

well theres the evedence of some of the most emenant balistic in the world that a silencer wasnt used in the killings.

theres the fact that 4 policeman seached the cupboard that it was supposed to have been fund in and dident see it.

[scipio_usmc]

It also could have been an animal hair - it was a farm and had cats dogs and allegedly even rats. Perhaps if it had not been handled in a kitchen roll we would know.

Human hair and animal hair do not look the same. Animal hair is generally shorter especially hair of rodents and those animals that have hair as long as human hair will be coarser it is easy to tell dog hair from human hair. Animal hair has actually ended up helping catch animals because they got the hair of their pets on victims or left such hair at the scene. Now with DNA it is worse because DNA has been used to match pet air even more convincingly than in the past when they argued it was simply from the same breed and color as the pet.  They even have matched DNA of plants.

[Caroline]

He did mention the gray hair to the police when he called. The police were also aware of the hair at the time it was being sent to the lab but it was lost on the way to the lab or at the lab because lack of care. The lab was not told by police to take care because a hair was on it. Fortunately for them it didn't really matter. We all know it is Nevill's hair not some random gray haired person.  We also all know it was his closet and his house so his hair would be around and could attach to it at any stage after the murders including by being in the closet and getting on it in there.  So the hair was not of much value.   

A murder could happen at my house and my hair could get on the weapon even though I am not there at the time of the murder simply because my hair will be around my house. If it is a whole clump of hair that's a different matter because clumps of my hair are not falling out it would have to be pulled out of my head...

Jones was the first to mention the grey hair.

[Caroline]

Oh, I SEE!!! This is all because YOU didn't ask the question. Heaven forbid that someone should upset your emissions by asking something intelligent and pertinent.

When Adam asks a relevant question I think we should ALL have a party (but not invite Adam!) :D

[Caroline]

stick to discussing and I might gain an ounce of respect for your opinion. The thread was going along quite nicely thank you.

I think (recently) the issues surrounding the statements of the relatives RE: the moderator have been neglected. I know there are many discrepancies and I will highlight my own problems with their statements but would be interested to hear other people's views!   

[Caroline]

It also could have been an animal hair - it was a farm and had cats dogs and allegedly even rats. Perhaps if it had not been handled in a kitchen roll we would know.

I honestly don't think that the hair has any significance, being as the silencer was carefully scrutinised around the kitchen table and no one noticed it. If it came from anywhere, it mus have come from being handled or from the Eaton's house.

[nugnug]

as it hadent been under proper conditions that hair could of come from anywhere surely if it belonge to one of the bambers we would know becouse of dna.

[scipio_usmc]

I think (recently) the issues surrounding the statements of the relatives RE: the moderator have been neglected. I know there are many discrepancies and I will highlight my own problems with their statements but would be interested to hear other people's views!   

I think (recently) the issues surrounding the statements of the relatives RE: the moderator have been neglected. I know there are many discrepancies and I will highlight my own problems with their statements but would be interested to hear other people's views!   

The differences are quite minor and to be expected considering the statements were a month or more later and they didn't recognize the significance of the items at the time.

They agree David found them, that it was on the Saturday when the house was turned over to them, that Ann Eaton took the items to Oak Farm and kept them there till Jones picked it up.

Ann and David looked closely enough to see blood and pain on it while their father did not.  Cock was there but didn't care about it or the other items and told them to handle giving them to police. There is not much else to say about it.

 

[Adam]

Stan Jones gave AE the keys to WHF after the police had finished. The relatives were not begging him for the keys so they could create a big frame.

If the relatives were looking to frame Jeremy, I am not sure why BW & Basil Cock were there. Bit risky.

Anyway they found the silencer in the gun cupboard. This is not surprising as Jeremy said he had (surprisingly) gone out to shoot rabbits without the silencer attached. 

It was also surprising the silencer was off the rifle. AP said he had seen the rifle shortly beforehand with the silencer on. There is not much point in taking it off, if the rifle is used for shooting vermin. Didn't Jeremy incorrectly claim it was not possible to put the rifle in the gun cupboard with the silencer attached ?

Anyway one person found it, it seems while everyone else was scattered around WHF.  Where are these big discrepancies in statements ?

[nugnug]

they found the silncer in the gun cupboard after 4 policeman had searched the gun cupboar and not sen it.

[maggie]

Human hair and animal hair do not look the same. Animal hair is generally shorter especially hair of rodents and those animals that have hair as long as human hair will be coarser it is easy to tell dog hair from human hair. Animal hair has actually ended up helping catch animals because they got the hair of their pets on victims or left such hair at the scene. Now with DNA it is worse because DNA has been used to match pet air even more convincingly than in the past when they argued it was simply from the same breed and color as the pet.  They even have matched DNA of plants.

The hair was apparently an inch long which sounds like a cat hair to me.

[nugnug]

i would of thought dna testing would be able to tell the difrence between animal and human hair but then agian i would of thought if the hair belonged to any of the vicems a dna test would be able to establish that as well.

it could be the hair of one of the relatives.