Author Topic: A fair trial?  (Read 41367 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

chochokeira

  • Guest
Re: A fair trial?
« Reply #120 on: April 19, 2011, 06:54:PM »
Chochokeira I can take it there are so many peoples views I respect on this forum a friend of the family doesn't ruffle my feathers at all. I just wish I could be more eloquent  like you

All this relative and friend of the family business, if I was, then I would think that my views would be a little stronger, don't you? Plus I'm not sure pointing out where Anns daughter lived would be in a relatives or family friends best interest either.

Although I'm bored of denying, so carry on as you were.


I sympathise with  you Harters, to be an innocent person and wrongly accused is dreadful. The more you try to convince others of your innocence the more they appear to believe you're guilty. What on earth can you do to persuade others that you are not guilty?

Perhaps you could try telling those who wrongly accuse you how bad it feels to be scapegoated for something you've not done and appeal to their better nature.

Then a few of us could form a support group for you and wear tee shirts with legends stating:

                               "Harters is innocent!"    or
               
                               "Free Harters!"

Which do you prefer?

That might just you free you.

Hopefully you won't have to be incarcerated by wrongly assumed guilt for too long....and you'll be freed in, say, 25 to 26 years?

Only one problem, that guy who who wants you to stay banged up: I forget his name.



Oooh, ooh, yes, I remember now......it's Hartley






chochokeira

  • Guest
Re: A fair trial?
« Reply #121 on: April 19, 2011, 06:56:PM »
I was reffering to Jackie, not you  Choc.


Oh, right :-[

chochokeira

  • Guest
Re: A fair trial?
« Reply #122 on: April 19, 2011, 06:57:PM »
Emilia di Girolamo - Writer
I don’t have a single doubt that Jeremy is innocent.

During the eight years I worked in offender rehabilitation, I met many men and women convicted of murder and other very serious crimes. Some I met fleetingly, others I worked with intensively but in all cases, it was clear that the person before me was capable of committing the offence their prison file told me they had committed. Even the prisoners who claimed to be innocent victims of a ‘fit up’, were betrayed by aspects of their personality, demeanor, little signs indicative of guilt. Working inside, I quickly learned to trust my instincts. My instincts told me Jeremy was innocent even before I read the huge amount of incredibly compelling evidence proving beyond any doubt, his conviction is unsafe.

Why was I so certain? I have studied many cases of family annihilation and women who have killed their own children, something we as a nation found incomprehensible in 1985. My knowledge of these cases, and of the typical profile of a family annihilator, meant Jeremy’s case never felt quite right to me. Jeremy doesn’t fit the profile of a family annihilator, though sadly his sister Sheila did fit the profile of a mother capable of killing her children.

It is incredibly difficult to accept a woman is capable of killing her own children but the sad truth is, since the murder at White House Farm, many women have committed equally tragic and terrible murders. There have been literally thousands of cases worldwide though there are the ones that stick in your head – Susan Smith who drove her car into a lake in 1994 with her two children strapped inside, Andrea Yates, the Texas mother who drowned her five children in the bath tub in 2001. In 2009, Rekha Kumari-Baker, stabbed her teenage daughters a total of 69 times. In 2010, Brit Lianne Smith, confessed to killing her two children in a Spanish hotel room. Just this month Theresa Riggi, pleaded guilty to killing her three children.

It’s disturbing and terrifying to the national psyche but it happens.

It is exactly what I believe happened that night at White House Farm. I believe Sheila, a diagnosed paranoid schizophrenic, who had been directly challenged by her parents that very evening over her parenting skills, snapped, killing her children, her parents and then herself. It isn’t just my belief - there is overwhelming evidence that Sheila was alive inside the house, while Jeremy was outside with the police for several hours, before the police broke down the door. The police log, hidden from the defense at the time of Jeremy’s trial, clearly quotes Nevill Bamber, ‘My daughter’s gone beserk, she’s got hold of one of my guns’.

I don’t work in prison anymore. I work as a TV script writer and producer, writing television drama. Jeremy’s case is so bizarre, so loaded with mistakes, cover ups and conspiracies it’s way beyond anything I would dream up at my desk. But at the heart of this case is an innocent man who has been locked up far too long. The evidence is so overwhelming, the CCRC are going to look very stupid if they reject an appeal again.


My husband and I have come to know Jeremy well and we are one hundred percent certain the man we know is not capable of killing anyone. He is an extraordinary person who continues to work relentlessly to prove his innocence. He has a remarkable spirit, a rare strength of character and is a warm, compassionate and kind human being who I am deeply privileged to know.

Lovely post, Jackie, thank you for this +1

chochokeira

  • Guest
Re: A fair trial?
« Reply #123 on: April 19, 2011, 07:01:PM »
Brilliant brilliant posts as usual Chochokeira imagine if JB is innocent sitting in prison I wish he could read some of your words they would keep him going if he was ever thinking of giving up his fight

Okay, this sitting on a convicted murderers knee stroking his hair and whispering sweet nothings into his ear, type comments is really quite bizarre.  ::)
Please keep your fantasies to yourself Hartley.  ;D ;D ;D

Nice one, Grahame +1

Offline Alias

  • Editor
  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9435
  • What is in those 200 boxes?
Re: A fair trial?
« Reply #124 on: April 19, 2011, 07:11:PM »

Apparently she had a nail missing? They were also chipped. By the way do all women go to bed with false nails on?

Apparently you are wrong.

The firearms officers who were the first to see her body noted that her feet and hands were “perfectly clean”. Her fingernails were well manicured and not broken and there were no marks or indentations on any of her fingers. All her fingertips were clean and free from any blood, dirt or powder and there appeared to be no trace of any lead dust or coating which is usual when handling .22 ammunition.

DC Hammersley, the Scenes of Crimes Officer placed plastic bags over Sheila's hands and feet before her body was removed from the farmhouse. He saw some blood staining to the back of the right hand, but apart from that the hands, to his eye were clean and the nails intact.

Sheila never attacked anyone, Sheila never gouged Nevill's arm, Sheila never came anywhere near ammunition never mind load a magazine twice.
Didn't Mike say something about one of Sheila Caffell's finger nails being found by Ann Eaton? If this is true then it doesn't matter what police offices said. It proves them wrong. It would be good if Mike could re-post that piece of information?
Here's the link:
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,172.msg422/topicseen.html#msg422

Interesting - and confusing. Conflicting info, again.

Edit to add: If not longish fingernails made those wounds on Nevill´s arm, what did? Those marks do look like fingernail marks to me - very much so.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2011, 07:14:PM by abs »

sandy

  • Guest
Re: A fair trial?
« Reply #125 on: April 19, 2011, 07:16:PM »
The defence had to admit the following in their submission to the CCRC.

The finger nails of Sheila Caffell were examined. A post mortem photograph of her hands was indeed made available and formed part of the “Jury Bundle.” The said finger nails of Sheila Caffell were too long to have caused the laceration/indentation marks on the arm of Ralph Neville Bamber and the singer mark on the arm of June Bamber.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:GBoXf__1A4QJ:www.studiolegaleinternazionale.com/downloads/bamber/BAMBERCCRC_addendum_06_06_2004.doc+bamber+2002+appeal&cd=57&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk

Offline lebaleb

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 884
Re: A fair trial?
« Reply #126 on: April 19, 2011, 07:54:PM »
The defence had to admit the following in their submission to the CCRC.

The finger nails of Sheila Caffell were examined. A post mortem photograph of her hands was indeed made available and formed part of the “Jury Bundle.” The said finger nails of Sheila Caffell were too long to have caused the laceration/indentation marks on the arm of Ralph Neville Bamber and the singer mark on the arm of June Bamber.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:GBoXf__1A4QJ:www.studiolegaleinternazionale.com/downloads/bamber/BAMBERCCRC_addendum_06_06_2004.doc+bamber+2002+appeal&cd=57&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk

The defence states in the application to the CCRC 2004. That even to the untrained eye these lacerations are consistant with those made by fingernails, but supposedly Venezis was a trained eye and he seemed to think they were the result of blows from the end of a blunt object [the poker maybe?] Had they been nails they would have to be longer than Jeremy's who had short nails. What's a singer mark???

John

  • Guest
Re: A fair trial?
« Reply #127 on: April 19, 2011, 07:56:PM »
The defence had to admit the following in their submission to the CCRC.

The finger nails of Sheila Caffell were examined. A post mortem photograph of her hands was indeed made available and formed part of the “Jury Bundle.” The said finger nails of Sheila Caffell were too long to have caused the laceration/indentation marks on the arm of Ralph Neville Bamber and the singer mark on the arm of June Bamber.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:GBoXf__1A4QJ:www.studiolegaleinternazionale.com/downloads/bamber/BAMBERCCRC_addendum_06_06_2004.doc+bamber+2002+appeal&cd=57&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk

The defence states in the application to the CCRC 2004. That even to the untrained eye these lacerations are consistant with those made by fingernails, but supposedly Venezis was a trained eye and he seemed to think they were the result of blows from the end of a blunt object [the poker maybe?] Had they been nails they would have to be longer than Jeremy's who had short nails. What's a singer mark???

I think that should be single.

Jackiepreece

  • Guest
Re: A fair trial?
« Reply #128 on: April 19, 2011, 07:59:PM »
Well Sandy it doesn't sound like Jeremy either does it I wonder who else could have had a motive hmmm?


Still when we get the next lot of the 340,000 still undisclosed documents I am sure there will be signed statements from mugford listing Jeremys injuries from the fierce struggle with Neville in the kitchen.

I am sure such a caring person would have spent hours attending Jeremys injuries

But then again maybe that document will have just gone missing altogether

Considering the serious subject we are debating here Miss Chocho has made me laugh again

Sandy will you be happy if Jeremy gets a retrial so all these anomalies are sorted out you must believe that's for the best

chochokeira

  • Guest
Re: A fair trial?
« Reply #129 on: April 19, 2011, 08:01:PM »
Lucy I will find the information tonight or tomorrow.  Mike might have it already.  You are questioning what I have put do you know different?

Please correct me if you do

No of course I don't know differently.
Would just like to see some real evidence that things are being witheld rather than someone just stating it as such on here.


Lucy, the following parliamentary debate confirms that a substantial amount of important evidence was withheld from Bamber's defence and the judge and jury at his trial and was still being withheld at the time of this debate.

Mr. Andrew Hunter (Basingstoke)

"(DUP): At 7.35 on the morning of 7 August 1985, officers of the Essex constabulary forcibly entered White House farm, Tolleshunt D'Arcy, Essex. After a search of half an hour, they had found five bodies: those of Neville Bamber, his wife, June, their adopted 28-year-old daughter, Sheila Cafell, and her twin six-year-old sons. At approximately 3.15 that morning, the Bambers' 24-year-old adopted son, Jeremy, who lived in a neighbouring village, had called the local police informing them that he had heard from his father saying that his sister, Sheila, had gone crazy and had a gun. Jeremy Bamber met the police at the farm at about 3.40 am. The police initially believed that Sheila, who had a history of mental illness, had committed four murders before shooting herself, but members of the extended Bamber family soon started trying to convince the police that Jeremy was responsible. In due course, he was arrested, charged and convicted.

The trial was unusual. The judge ruled that only Sheila or Jeremy could have committed the murders. Consequently, a major thrust of the prosecution case was to demonstrate that Sheila could not have been responsible and that Jeremy was therefore guilty. It was a near-run thing; the jury convicted Bamber on a 10:2 majority vote. If just one of 10 jurors had wavered, Bamber would have walked away a free man. Instead, he has been incarcerated for 19 years, consistently protesting his innocence. Subsequent developments, particularly during the past 12 months, have given rise to grave concern that Bamber's conviction may be another of the great miscarriages of justice, to be bracketed with the Bridgewater Three, the Birmingham Six, the Guildford Four and others.

With the Bamber case, the key issue has been, and remains, the non-disclosure of evidence to the defence. Early in 2004, Bamber's new defence team looked at the evidence again, and exhibit 29 caught their attention in particular. It was
a document listing some radio messages from the scene of the crime. The defence wondered whether it might be the first page of a longer document rather than a complete document in itself, so they sought clarification. Essex constabulary was adamant that exhibit 29 was a whole document and had been available to the defence for the trial. Unconvinced, Bamber's defence team took the matter to court in March 2004. It was successful, and the police produced the entire document. Exhibit 29, it transpired, was not a single-page document, and Bamber's solicitors received by fax a 24-page summary of radio communications. They then took the unusual step of writing to both the trial judge and the chief prosecution counsel, inquiring if either had known at the time of the trial of the existence of the lengthier log of radio messages. Both replied that they had not.On receiving the 24 pages, the defence immediately noticed that the first two pages had not only been re-written on different paper from the rest, but had been edited. A comparison with police witness statements revealed that several key radio messages that were made had been left out. Why? The defence therefore asked for the original document so that it could be sent for electrostatic document analysis testing, but Essex constabulary refused. The request has been repeated many times, and on each occasion the constabulary has refused.

The disclosure of the radio message log was not the only dramatic development last March. Bamber's defence had requested only one document. However, perhaps inadvertently, the police also provided evidence that had not been requested—pages from a contemporaneous telephone log and from a contemporaneous incident report. The defence had not known that either existed. It was immediately apparent that the two logs and the incident report that the police had withheld contained details that were entirely inconsistent with the case put by the prosecution at Bamber's trial. I will give just two examples; others might be used by Bamber's defence on another occasion.

First, at 5.25 am, officers in police car call sign Charlie-Alpha 7—the same officers who had met Bamber at White House farm and spent much of the time with him—relayed a message from the tactical firearms team to incident headquarters. The firearms team was in conversation with a person inside the farm. If the police were in conversation with somebody inside the farm at 5.25 am, the case against Bamber collapses. He could not have murdered everybody in the farmhouse before 3 am if at 5.25 am the police were talking to one of his supposed victims. If, on the other hand, the police were in conversation with a third party inside the farmhouse, the judge's ruling that either Jeremy or Sheila and nobody else could have committed the crimes is blatantly wrong. However, neither trial judge nor prosecution or defence had any opportunity to evaluate the 5.25 am entry, because the police had withheld it.

Secondly, four entries in the logs and incident report flatly contradict the prosecution's
account that Neville Bamber's body was found downstairs in the kitchen and the other four bodies upstairs. An entry in the radio message log, which the police withheld for nearly 19 years, reads:

"0737: one dead male and one dead female in kitchen".

The telephone message log, which the police withheld for nearly 19 years, records:

"0738: one dead male and one dead female found on entry",

and at 7.40 am, the incident log, again withheld by the police for nearly 19 years, records a message from a Detective Inspector "IR"—we know only his initials—which. said:

"Police entered premises. One male dead, one female dead".

We know from their witness statements that at 7.40 am the police had not yet gone upstairs and searched the back of the house, where the other bodies were found. Finally, after they had eventually searched that part of the house and finished their task, they reported:

"House now thoroughly searched by firearms team. Now confirmed a further 3 bodies
found".

So, almost immediately on entering the farmhouse, the police had found two bodies
downstairs in the kitchen, and later three more bodies had been found upstairs. Most
emphatically, that is not what the prosecution said during the trial.

The defence team believes that it probably now knows what happened. It believes that the body of Sheila Cafell, which the police insist that they found upstairs,

had first been seen downstairs in the kitchen. Of course, dead bodies do not move. The
proposition that Sheila Cafell was still alive when the police thought that she was dead in the kitchen might be dismissed as entirely fanciful if there were not supporting photographic evidence—photographic evidence that was not disclosed until 2001. Unfortunately, Bamber's previous defence did not recognize its significance before his 2002 appeal.

Before the trial in 1986, Bamber's defence had access to a large bundle of scene of crime photographs, which included photographs of the dead bodies. In the cases of June and Neville Bamber, rigor mortis is evident, as is skin discoloration, and the blood is congealed. The defence wrongly assumed that the first bundle contained all the photographs that had been taken. Before the 2002 appeal, however, the defence team was shown another, smaller bundle of 80 to 100 photographs that had previously been withheld.At Bamber's trial, the prosecution argued that if Sheila had committed the murders and then killed herself, she would have trodden in blood as she moved about the house; but no trace of blood was found on her feet. Interestingly, no photographic evidence was produced at the trial to support that assertion. Curiously, the first bundle of photographs contained no pictures of Sheila's feet. That is not so with the second bundle of photographs, which were withheld. In that bundle were photographs, which were not available at the time of the trial,
clearly showing blood on Sheila's feet.The withheld second bundle contains even more dramatic evidence.

There are several photographs of Sheila—there is no rigor mortis, the skin is not discoloured and the blood from her wounds has not yet congealed. Bamber's defence team have shown those photographs to leading pathologists. Independently, they have concluded that Sheila could not have died much more than one and a half hours before the photographs were taken. However, the police photographer did not arrive until a little after 9 o'clock. According to the pathologists, therefore, Sheila died at about the time the police entered White House farm, and Bamber could not have murdered her.

The points that I have made—I could make many others if we had more time—give rise to grave concern about Bamber's conviction. Their common theme is the non-disclosure of evidence by the police. Nearly 16 years after the White House farm murders, the defence first saw the second bundle of photographs. After nearly 19 years, the defence team discovered that there was a full radio log, a telephone log and an incident report, of which it had previously been unaware. It is the understatement of all understatements to say that such non-disclosure is deeply worrying. Even worse, it is still going on.

Bamber's defence team has repeatedly asked for access to the following:

first, the notebooks and other papers of Inspector Jones, who headed the initial investigation and firmly believed in Bamber's innocence;

secondly, the findings of the coroner who inquired into Inspector Jones's sudden death, which have never been made public;

thirdly, the audio recordings of all telephone and radio messages from White House farm;

fourthly, the audio recordings describing the scene of the crime; fifthly, the video recordings of the scene of the crime; and sixthly, the original radio and telephone messages log and incident report. All are still being withheld from the defence. On every occasion on which the defence team has asked for them, Essex constabulary has refused to provide them. I put it directly to the
Minister—and ask her to respond—that that is surely an intolerable state of affairs.

In December I tabled a written question asking the Home Secretary to instruct Essex
constabulary to give Mr. Bamber's solicitors all audio tapes relating to events at White House farm. The Minister for Crime Reduction, Policing and Community Safety replied:

"The disclosure of information held by Essex Constabulary is a matter for the Chief Officer of the force".


Unfortunately, the chief constable has made his position clear: he will not co-operate. One wonders why not. The Minister also stated in her reply:

"If the information requested is available under the access provisions of the Data Protection Act 1998 or the Freedom of Information Act, then Mr. Bamber may have his own rights to gain access to such information under this legislation."—[Official Report, House of Commons, 21 December 2004; Vol. 428, c. 1556W.]

Those possible rights have been explored, but appear not to exist. It is now time for the Home Office to take matters seriously, and consider carefully not only the few points that I have made, but the whole Bamber affair. In particular, it should look at the issue of non-disclosure and the behaviour and attitude of Essex constabulary. It is also time for the Criminal Cases Review Commission to expedite matters so that the case of Mr. Jeremy Bamber is not left in judicial limbo. Such action is necessary to avoid perpetuating what a growing number of people fear may be
one of the greatest miscarriages of justice of our times.4.16 pm

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the Home
Department (Fiona Mactaggart) :

I thank the hon. Member for Basingstoke (Mr. Hunter) and congratulate him on securing this debate on the important and, in many ways, sensational case of Jeremy Bamber, who is currently serving a life sentence for the murder of his adopted parents and sister and her twin sons.

The hon. Gentleman has stated that he believes that the Home Office should look closely at the Bamber affair, and in particular at the issue of non-disclosure and the behaviour and attitude of Essex constabulary. I shall begin by saying that, on previous occasions, the Home Office has looked closely at the Bamber affair, as have the constabulary and the City of London police, following a complaint by Mr. Bamber to the Police Complaints Authority under

the previous system. Its 14-month study did not uphold Mr. Bamber's complaint. Since then, there have been reforms to the Police Complaints Authority, and I do not know whether Mr. Bamber has made a further complaint to the new Independent Police Complaints Commission. Perhaps, however, it would help if I explained the recent handling of requests to review cases such as Mr. Bamber's, because that is relevant to the points raised by the hon. Gentleman.

The 1993 royal commission on criminal justice recommended that the responsibility for re-opening cases of suspected miscarriages of justice should be

"removed from the Home Secretary, and transferred to a body independent of Government."

Parliament agreed with that when it passed the Criminal Appeal Act 1995, setting up the Criminal Cases Review Commission. Accordingly, the Home Secretary's powers to consider alleged miscarriages of justice ended on 31 March 1997, and were replaced by new powers vested in an independent body, the CCRC. It has the power to review and supervise investigations into possible miscarriages of justice in England, Wales and Northern Ireland; to approve the appointment of investigating officers; to gain access—I emphasise this—to documents and other material that may be relevant to its investigations; and to refer any cases when there is a real possibility that the conviction or sentence will not be upheld to the appropriate court, which will treat the referral as a new appeal.

The Home Secretary is answerable to Parliament for the work of the commission, but as it is operationally independent, he cannot intervene in its determination of a particular case. That being so, in many ways, it is not within the Home Secretary's remit to examine Mr. Bamber's case. I recognise that the hon. Gentleman is asking not for a general re- examination of the case, but for a particular investigation of the role of Essex constabulary. Further allegations of non-disclosure by the Essex constabulary are a matter for the CCRC, rather than for the Home Office, because non-disclosure can be a ground for the CCRC to refer a case back to the Court of Appeal. The commission referred Mr. Bamber's case to the Court of Appeal in 2001, following an earlier investigation, but those grounds were not based on non-disclosure. Mr. Bamber's solicitor added a number of non-disclosure arguments at the appeal hearing, although they were dismissed by the full court.

I understand that the commission has recently been asked to investigate the new
allegations, and I can confirm that under section 17 of the Criminal Appeal Act it has the power to gain access to documents and any other material that may be relevant to its investigations. I have been told that there are something like 4 million items of material in this case, so there is a large range of matters that the commission needs to investigate. If it has not already done so as part of its earlier review of the case, which resulted in the unsuccessful appeal in 2002, it may, if it believes it appropriate, obtain the material to which the hon. Gentleman has referred.

It would be inappropriate for the Home Secretary to become involved in this or any other alleged wrongful conviction. The safety of the conviction is a matter for the courts rather than the Home Secretary. Accusations about the Essex police are a matter for the chief constable

of the force or the new Independent Police Complaints Commission. There is an important public policy reason why both the Criminal Cases Review Commission and the Independent Police Complaints Commission are independent of the Home Office: to create public confidence in those authorities.

Mr. Bamber is of course aware of the Criminal Cases Review Commission's remit, as his
second appeal in October 2002 followed its reviewing his case and referring it back to the Court of Appeal on 23 March 2001. In that case, the Court of Appeal did not find that there  were sufficient grounds for finding the conviction to be unsafe. In its judgment, the court went
so far as to say:

"It should be understood that it is not the function of this court to decide whether or not the jury was right in reaching its verdicts. That is a task that is wholly impossible in virtually every case because this court does not have the advantage of hearing and seeing the witnesses give evidence, and deciding which of the witnesses are trying to tell the truth and which of those who are trying to do so are accurate in their recollection. Our system trusts the judgment of a group of 12 ordinary people to make such assessments and it is not for the Court of Appeal to try to interfere with their assessment unless the verdicts are manifestly wrong, or something has gone wrong in the process leading up to or at trial so as to deprive the jury of a fair opportunity to make their assessment of the case, or unless fresh evidenc has emerged that the jury never had an opportunity to consider.

We have found no evidence of anything that occurred which might unfairly have affected the fairness of the trial. We do not believe that the fresh evidence that has been placed before us would have had any significant impact upon the jury's conclusions if it had been available at trial. Finally the jury's verdicts were, in our judgment, ones that they were plainly entitled to reach on the evidence. We should perhaps add in fairness to the jury that the deeper we have delved into the available evidence the more likely it has seemed to us that the jury were right, but our views do not matter in this regard, it is the views of the jury that are paramount."

It is open to anyone to re-apply to the Criminal Cases Review Commission if they can
present an argument or evidence not raised in previous court hearings or demonstrate that the case would, exceptionally, otherwise merit a reference back to the Court of Appeal. I am informed that Mr. Bamber's solicitor reapplied to the commission in March 2004. I understand that the commission reached a provisional decision but that his solicitor has since provided further material that will take time to investigate. I am confident that the commission is dealing with the further application both fairly and thoroughly.

It is neither in my remit nor in that of the Home Secretary to consider the said to be newly discovered police logs or any other new evidence that may have been made available to the commission. However, the commission can ask for that material and assess whether it demonstrates that the concern expressed by the hon. Gentleman that there has not been a fair trial is sufficient to merit re-referring the case to the Court of Appeal.

I believe that it is at best premature to discuss a call for a further inquiry into the suggested withholding of information by the Essex constabulary. At the second appeal, the court found no evidence to support Mr. Bamber's allegations of serious wrongdoing, including deliberate non-disclosure, by the police; nor did the results of the internal inquiry and the 14-month investigation of Mr. Bamber's complaints by the City of London police confirm that there was any justification to Mr. Bamber's allegations.

I understand that there is no current recorded complaint to the new Independent Police
Complaints Commission. If there is a complaint that the police are deliberately withholding material, that is the proper authority to deal with the matter. Only if a third appeal contradicted the earlier findings of the re-referral and of the previous court might it be reasonable to consider whether an inquiry was needed into how the matter had come to that pass.

Before us is a concern that evidence has not properly been made available to the body that is rightly charged with judging it. There is an independent body, which is sifting through that evidence and which has the powers, given to it by Parliament, to call for that evidence if it believes that it is in any way relevant to the case for a re-hearing by the Court of Appeal. It is doing that job. I urge the hon. Gentleman to depend on that process. The Criminal Cases Review Commission has been pretty efficient at dealing with the matters before it.

Mr. Hunter :

Is not the point that the CCRC may be evaluating submissions from Mr. Bamber's solicitor and has the power to request evidence, but the defence does not? The defence's submission to the CCRC is the weaker, because it does not have access, or powers to gain access, to the evidence that the police are allegedly denying it.

Fiona Mactaggart :

The hon. Gentleman points out that these are allegations. The record of the CCRC in its independent role is good. It has referred a number of cases back to court. I do not have the figures before me, but I think that, to date, there have been more than 60 cases in which the judgments of previous courts have been overturned as a result of its work. The CCRC is not anybody's patsy. It has the power to require the material. It is the mechanism that has the power to ensure reconsideration if a case merits reconsideration. We have established a powerful independent way to deal with miscarriages of justice. If the concern is that there has in this case been a miscarriage of justice, that body must have the opportunity to do its job and to ensure that that matter is dealt with effectively.

Question put and agreed to.

Adjourned accordingly at twenty-nine minutes past Four o'clock."

From Jeremy Bamber's official website

chochokeira

  • Guest
Re: A fair trial?
« Reply #130 on: April 19, 2011, 08:03:PM »

Apparently she had a nail missing? They were also chipped. By the way do all women go to bed with false nails on?

Apparently you are wrong.

The firearms officers who were the first to see her body noted that her feet and hands were “perfectly clean”. Her fingernails were well manicured and not broken and there were no marks or indentations on any of her fingers. All her fingertips were clean and free from any blood, dirt or powder and there appeared to be no trace of any lead dust or coating which is usual when handling .22 ammunition.

DC Hammersley, the Scenes of Crimes Officer placed plastic bags over Sheila's hands and feet before her body was removed from the farmhouse. He saw some blood staining to the back of the right hand, but apart from that the hands, to his eye were clean and the nails intact.

Sheila never attacked anyone, Sheila never gouged Nevill's arm, Sheila never came anywhere near ammunition never mind load a magazine twice.
Didn't Mike say something about one of Sheila Caffell's finger nails being found by Ann Eaton? If this is true then it doesn't matter what police offices said. It proves them wrong. It would be good if Mike could re-post that piece of information?
Here's the link:
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,172.msg422/topicseen.html#msg422


Well done, Grahame +1

sandy

  • Guest
Re: A fair trial?
« Reply #131 on: April 19, 2011, 08:14:PM »
Well Sandy it doesn't sound like Jeremy either does it I wonder who else could have had a motive hmmm?


Still when we get the next lot of the 340,000 still undisclosed documents I am sure there will be signed statements from mugford listing Jeremys injuries from the fierce struggle with Neville in the kitchen.

I am sure such a caring person would have spent hours attending Jeremys injuries

But then again maybe that document will have just gone missing altogether

Considering the serious subject we are debating here Miss Chocho has made me laugh again

Sandy will you be happy if Jeremy gets a retrial so all these anomalies are sorted out you must believe that's for the best


I am undecided as to that Jackiepreece as there is lots of evidence which puts Jeremy squarely in the frame from a motive point of view.

Irrespective of what Ann Eaton did or did not find, Sheila's fingernails were all intact with the defence admitting this to be the case.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2011, 08:22:PM by sandy »

Hartley

  • Guest
Re: A fair trial?
« Reply #132 on: April 19, 2011, 08:23:PM »
Chochokeira I can take it there are so many peoples views I respect on this forum a friend of the family doesn't ruffle my feathers at all. I just wish I could be more eloquent  like you

All this relative and friend of the family business, if I was, then I would think that my views would be a little stronger, don't you? Plus I'm not sure pointing out where Anns daughter lived would be in a relatives or family friends best interest either.

Although I'm bored of denying, so carry on as you were.


I sympathise with  you Harters, to be an innocent person and wrongly accused is dreadful. The more you try to convince others of your innocence the more they appear to believe you're guilty. What on earth can you do to persuade others that you are not guilty?

Perhaps you could try telling those who wrongly accuse you how bad it feels to be scapegoated for something you've not done and appeal to their better nature.

Then a few of us could form a support group for you and wear tee shirts with legends stating:

                               "Harters is innocent!"    or
               
                               "Free Harters!"

Which do you prefer?

That might just you free you.

Hopefully you won't have to be incarcerated by wrongly assumed guilt for too long....and you'll be freed in, say, 25 to 26 years?

Only one problem, that guy who who wants you to stay banged up: I forget his name.



Oooh, ooh, yes, I remember now......it's Hartley

What a ridiculous post.  ::)

Anyhow there's nothing of interest being discussed anymore, so I think I'll leave the cheerleaders to it, enjoy.

sandy

  • Guest
Re: A fair trial?
« Reply #133 on: April 19, 2011, 08:30:PM »
You will always find Harley that those with least to contribute are first to mock!   ;)

Jackiepreece

  • Guest
Re: A fair trial?
« Reply #134 on: April 19, 2011, 08:33:PM »
Chochokeira do you realise the trouble you are causing!!!!!!

They are throwing their dummys out of their prams and leaving in droves!!!

Oh well Hartley