Author Topic: A fair trial?  (Read 41403 times)

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Offline Kaldin

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Re: A fair trial?
« Reply #150 on: April 20, 2011, 09:08:AM »
Lucy why do you say mindless adoration have you actually sat and read through all these posts.  It takes hours to keep up with everything that's posted on here good or bad and believe me most of us do.
Maybe if most of the undisclosed documents were released and maybe if it could be proved jm was telling the truth and if we believed JB was so desperate for money he would murder two children and three adults in cold blood and maybe if we thought JB acted like a guilty man in the dock we wouldn't be sitting here reading this.
It is very insulting to be called mindless I might not be as intelligent as some of the people on here but I know when something is not right and after watching the tv documentary the other nightmy gut feeling has got even worse towards Essex Police I don't know if Bob Miller was the best they could find or noone else would do it and I probably think the latter was true.  I have never read two of the documents Chochokeira posted today and I have read loads but it was great reading. Does she fall in the mindless category how dare you she is sticking up for someone sat in prison for 26 years for a crime that is regularly discussed in the media because an awful lot of people arent even sure he is guilty.  You can call me mindless water off a ducks back but so far I haven't read anything interesting you have to say.

There's nothing wrong with your posts Jackie. I've agreed with you many times. You're much more convinced that I am that JB is innocent, but I also have many doubts based on instinct, as I've said elsewhere on here. That doesn't mean I'm in some kind of JB fan club though.

Offline grahameb

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Re: A fair trial?
« Reply #151 on: April 20, 2011, 10:12:AM »
Chochokeira do you realise the trouble you are causing!!!!!!

They are throwing their dummys out of their prams and leaving in droves!!!

Oh well Hartley

Hartley was a good poster and he provided some good balance here. It's a shame he's gone again.
Have to agree. Such a pity that you've chased off someone so valuable to your forum.........am more of a reader than a poster and is first forum that have looked at and kinda liked it but have to say that the way some of you behave when anyone dares to disagree with your (mindless) adoration of JB is enough to put anyone off. The whole idea of a forum is supposed to be about exchanging ideas and theories but a few of you on here seem to be so fanatical that in the end all you'll end up with is yourselves!
Sorry if this offends anyone but think you're doing yourselves down by behaving like this. Berating people who have a different opinion to you is not what this is supposed to be about. If you want a JB fanclub with no dissenters then rename it!
Unfortunately Lucy that kind of thing has happened on both sides and is not exclusive to JB's supporters. May I suggest that you only see it that way because your mind is prejudiced as well? Notice I didn't use the spiteful word "mindless" to describe your views? For the use of that word alone constitutes a blind prejudice on the part of the user.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2011, 10:15:AM by grahame »

Offline grahameb

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Re: A fair trial?
« Reply #152 on: April 20, 2011, 10:28:AM »
You will always find Harley that those with least to contribute are first to mock!   ;)
Yes sandy ::)

Jackiepreece

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Re: A fair trial?
« Reply #153 on: April 20, 2011, 10:41:AM »
Kaldin
I am still confused on many things that's why I read everything but like you I have a gut feeling he didn't do and have a problem with the two people who ultimately got him convicted mugford motive re jealousy and the relatives re inheritance the silencer the badgering of the police and also the state of their finances.

If JB did it carrying out the murders blood splatter cycling back home back with the police cool as a cucumber

Percentage wise probably 99% because of course he cant prove he didn't but when I went to the area a couple of weeks ago that really made me more certain he was innocent because it's such a beautiful charming place he did have a charmed life.  I know many people who work in family businesses and they all generally moan about money and think they should get more especially if a business is doing well.  But as he is in prison and there are so many mysteries about this case and documents witheld I am 100% for a retrial.

Kaldin have you been to the area?

sandy

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Re: A fair trial?
« Reply #154 on: April 20, 2011, 02:41:PM »
Kaldin
I am still confused on many things that's why I read everything but like you I have a gut feeling he didn't do and have a problem with the two people who ultimately got him convicted mugford motive re jealousy and the relatives re inheritance the silencer the badgering of the police and also the state of their finances.

If JB did it carrying out the murders blood splatter cycling back home back with the police cool as a cucumber

Percentage wise probably 99% because of course he cant prove he didn't but when I went to the area a couple of weeks ago that really made me more certain he was innocent because it's such a beautiful charming place he did have a charmed life.  I know many people who work in family businesses and they all generally moan about money and think they should get more especially if a business is doing well.  But as he is in prison and there are so many mysteries about this case and documents witheld I am 100% for a retrial.

Kaldin have you been to the area?

I don't gel with your idea that Mugford's reason for doing what she did was jealousy.  I think this version is the more believable..

Julie Mugford and Jeremy spent the following weekend with Colin Caffell and on 12 August 1985 she went to the house in Goldhanger with Jeremy. There he told her that the police had been a bit slack because they had not done all the fingerprinting at White House Farm. On 16 August Julie attended the funerals of Nevill and June with Jeremy and then on 19 August the funerals of Sheila and her children. During that period she spoke of Jeremy taking her out for frequent meals, and buying expensive clothes for himself and for her. She described his mood during this period as “very happy”. After one of the funerals they drank champagne and cocktails.

Julie spent the weekend of 17-18 August 1985 with him in Eastbourne and it was then that she began to ask how he could behave as he was doing. She kept telling him “£2,000 for 5 lives”. The following week the couple went to Amsterdam for two days, staying in expensive hotels and eating out. On 27 August Julie returned alone to her lodgings in London and she told her friend Susan Battersby of what Jeremy had done.

On Saturday 31 August Julie asked Jeremy whether he loved her. He said he did not know. Again they spoke about the murders. Julie said she could not cope with him behaving so normally and asked why he had told her what had happened. She said she felt guilt for the two of them. Jeremy told her he was doing everybody a favour and there was nothing to feel guilty about. Later that night he told her that she was the best friend he had ever had and he had entrusted his life to her.

On Tuesday 3 September the couple met again in London at the flat which had belonged to Sheila. Again Julie raised the question of their relationship and his part in the killing. During their conversation Jeremy received a telephone call from an ex-girlfriend and Julie heard him asking her out. She became angry and threw an ornament box at a mirror and then slapped him. He became very angry and twisted her arm up behind her back. 4 days later, she went to the police.

It also appears that a few hours after the shooting, Jeremy was more enthused by the Porsche he was going to get in a few weeks time than he was by the slaughter of five members of his family. Unbelievable!!
« Last Edit: April 20, 2011, 02:50:PM by sandy »

Offline lebaleb

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Re: A fair trial?
« Reply #155 on: April 20, 2011, 04:02:PM »
The porshe comment was made before anyone knew the situation was so serious inside WHF. Jeremy was making small talk with the police, remember it was several hours waiting around until the police got their act together and entered the farm. He didn't have much in common with them so talking about cars would be some common ground. Personally I have a big problem with Mugford's behaviour after being told that 5 people were about to be murdered that she did nothing.

Offline grahameb

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Re: A fair trial?
« Reply #156 on: April 20, 2011, 04:15:PM »
Kaldin
I am still confused on many things that's why I read everything but like you I have a gut feeling he didn't do and have a problem with the two people who ultimately got him convicted mugford motive re jealousy and the relatives re inheritance the silencer the badgering of the police and also the state of their finances.

If JB did it carrying out the murders blood splatter cycling back home back with the police cool as a cucumber

Percentage wise probably 99% because of course he cant prove he didn't but when I went to the area a couple of weeks ago that really made me more certain he was innocent because it's such a beautiful charming place he did have a charmed life.  I know many people who work in family businesses and they all generally moan about money and think they should get more especially if a business is doing well.  But as he is in prison and there are so many mysteries about this case and documents witheld I am 100% for a retrial.

Kaldin have you been to the area?

I don't gel with your idea that Mugford's reason for doing what she did was jealousy.  I think this version is the more believable..

Julie Mugford and Jeremy spent the following weekend with Colin Caffell and on 12 August 1985 she went to the house in Goldhanger with Jeremy. There he told her that the police had been a bit slack because they had not done all the fingerprinting at White House Farm. On 16 August Julie attended the funerals of Nevill and June with Jeremy and then on 19 August the funerals of Sheila and her children. During that period she spoke of Jeremy taking her out for frequent meals, and buying expensive clothes for himself and for her. She described his mood during this period as “very happy”. After one of the funerals they drank champagne and cocktails.

Julie spent the weekend of 17-18 August 1985 with him in Eastbourne andit was then that she began to ask how he could behave as he was doing. She kept telling him “£2,000 for 5 lives”. The following week the couple went to Amsterdam for two days, staying in expensive hotels and eating out. On 27 August Julie returned alone to her lodgings in London and she told her friend Susan Battersby of what Jeremy had done.

On Saturday 31 August Julie asked Jeremy whether he loved her. He said he did not know. Again they spoke about the murders. Julie said she could not cope with him behaving so normally and asked why he had told her what had happened. She said she felt guilt for the two of them. Jeremy told her he was doing everybody a favour and there was nothing to feel guilty about. Later that night he told her that she was the best friend he had ever had and he had entrusted his life to her.

On Tuesday 3 September the couple met again in London at the flat which had belonged to Sheila. Again Julie raised the question of their relationship and his part in the killing. During their conversation Jeremy received a telephone call from an ex-girlfriend and Julie heard him asking her out. She became angry and threw an ornament box at a mirror and then slapped him. He became very angry and twisted her arm up behind her back. 4 days later, she went to the police.

It also appears that a few hours after the shooting, Jeremy was more enthused by the Porsche he was going to get in a few weeks time than he was by the slaughter of five members of his family. Unbelievable!!
So she DID know that he had them murdered then? So she was happy to go along with all this and enjoy the expensive clothes and meals and Amsterdam and feel "very happy"? Let alone Jeremy Bamber acting strangely,how could she be very happy just after 5 people had just been murdered? I suggest that it was only when their relationship was in doubt that she began to have these "pangs of conscience about murder"
« Last Edit: April 20, 2011, 04:18:PM by grahame »

sandy

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Re: A fair trial?
« Reply #157 on: April 20, 2011, 06:53:PM »
The porshe comment was made before anyone knew the situation was so serious inside WHF. Jeremy was making small talk with the police, remember it was several hours waiting around until the police got their act together and entered the farm. He didn't have much in common with them so talking about cars would be some common ground. Personally I have a big problem with Mugford's behaviour after being told that 5 people were about to be murdered that she did nothing.

That doesn't wash at all. Jeremy knew the minute he arrived at the farm that there was a big problem. In fact, if his conviction is safe he knew quite a bit earlier what was going on.

The talk about his new Porsche was totally inappropriate but hey, what can you expect from a sick mind who that to his own family including two lovely children?

Offline Kaldin

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Re: A fair trial?
« Reply #158 on: April 20, 2011, 07:17:PM »
The porshe comment was made before anyone knew the situation was so serious inside WHF. Jeremy was making small talk with the police, remember it was several hours waiting around until the police got their act together and entered the farm. He didn't have much in common with them so talking about cars would be some common ground. Personally I have a big problem with Mugford's behaviour after being told that 5 people were about to be murdered that she did nothing.

That doesn't wash at all. Jeremy knew the minute he arrived at the farm that there was a big problem. In fact, if his conviction is safe he knew quite a bit earlier what was going on.

The talk about his new Porsche was totally inappropriate but hey, what can you expect from a sick mind who that to his own family including two lovely children?

I doubt that someone who'd just murdered his entire family would be talking about new cars anyway. I get the impression that PC Myall was trying to take Jeremy's mind of the situation and it was he who initiated the chit chat.

Offline HMEssex

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Re: A fair trial?
« Reply #159 on: April 20, 2011, 07:22:PM »
The porshe comment was made before anyone knew the situation was so serious inside WHF. Jeremy was making small talk with the police, remember it was several hours waiting around until the police got their act together and entered the farm. He didn't have much in common with them so talking about cars would be some common ground. Personally I have a big problem with Mugford's behaviour after being told that 5 people were about to be murdered that she did nothing.

That doesn't wash at all. Jeremy knew the minute he arrived at the farm that there was a big problem. In fact, if his conviction is safe he knew quite a bit earlier what was going on.

The talk about his new Porsche was totally inappropriate but hey, what can you expect from a sick mind who that to his own family including two lovely children?

I doubt that someone who'd just murdered his entire family would be talking about new cars anyway. I get the impression that PC Myall was trying to take Jeremy's mind of the situation and it was he who initiated the chit chat.






Exactly Kaldin, and he was talking about a 'replica' kit car, not the real thing.

John

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Re: A fair trial?
« Reply #160 on: April 20, 2011, 07:30:PM »
The porshe comment was made before anyone knew the situation was so serious inside WHF. Jeremy was making small talk with the police, remember it was several hours waiting around until the police got their act together and entered the farm. He didn't have much in common with them so talking about cars would be some common ground. Personally I have a big problem with Mugford's behaviour after being told that 5 people were about to be murdered that she did nothing.

That doesn't wash at all. Jeremy knew the minute he arrived at the farm that there was a big problem. In fact, if his conviction is safe he knew quite a bit earlier what was going on.

The talk about his new Porsche was totally inappropriate but hey, what can you expect from a sick mind who that to his own family including two lovely children?

I doubt that someone who'd just murdered his entire family would be talking about new cars anyway. I get the impression that PC Myall was trying to take Jeremy's mind of the situation and it was he who initiated the chit chat.






Exactly Kaldin, and he was talking about a 'replica' kit car, not the real thing.

Oh that makes it ok then?

Offline Alias

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Re: A fair trial?
« Reply #161 on: April 20, 2011, 07:34:PM »
The porshe comment was made before anyone knew the situation was so serious inside WHF. Jeremy was making small talk with the police, remember it was several hours waiting around until the police got their act together and entered the farm. He didn't have much in common with them so talking about cars would be some common ground. Personally I have a big problem with Mugford's behaviour after being told that 5 people were about to be murdered that she did nothing.

That doesn't wash at all. Jeremy knew the minute he arrived at the farm that there was a big problem. In fact, if his conviction is safe he knew quite a bit earlier what was going on.

The talk about his new Porsche was totally inappropriate but hey, what can you expect from a sick mind who that to his own family including two lovely children?

I doubt that someone who'd just murdered his entire family would be talking about new cars anyway. I get the impression that PC Myall was trying to take Jeremy's mind of the situation and it was he who initiated the chit chat.

I get one of those "Jeremy didn´t do it" moments when I think about him talking about cars that night!

sandy

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Re: A fair trial?
« Reply #162 on: April 20, 2011, 07:49:PM »
That was only the beginning.

During that period Julie spoke of Jeremy taking her out for frequent meals, and buying expensive clothes for himself and for her. She described his mood during this period as “very happy”.

After one of the funerals they drank champagne and cocktails.

Julie spent the weekend of 17-18 August 1985 with him in Eastbourne. The following week the couple went to Amsterdam for two days, staying in expensive hotels and eating out.

Not exactly what one would consider to be the grieving son and brother???




Previously, Jeremy had stolen money from the offices of the Osea Road Caravan site which was owned by him and various members of the family. On that occasion he had stage-managed the scene to give it the appearance of a burglary by an outsider. Some £970-£980 had been stolen which was used in part to buy a lavish meal.  Enjoyed the night-life!
« Last Edit: April 20, 2011, 07:50:PM by sandy »

Offline Kaldin

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Re: A fair trial?
« Reply #163 on: April 20, 2011, 07:52:PM »
That was only the beginning.

During that period Julie spoke of Jeremy taking her out for frequent meals, and buying expensive clothes for himself and for her. She described his mood during this period as “very happy”.

After one of the funerals they drank champagne and cocktails.

Julie spent the weekend of 17-18 August 1985 with him in Eastbourne. The following week the couple went to Amsterdam for two days, staying in expensive hotels and eating out.

Not exactly what one would consider to be the grieving son and brother???




Previously, Jeremy had stolen money from the offices of the Osea Road Caravan site which was owned by him and various members of the family. On that occasion he had stage-managed the scene to give it the appearance of a burglary by an outsider. Some £970-£980 had been stolen which was used in part to buy a lavish meal.  Enjoyed the night-life!

It's not exactly the actions of a girl who was shocked that her boyfriend had hired someone to murder his family either.

I don't think you can read anything into his behaviour. In fact, if he'd done it I'd expect his to keep his head down and to at least feel rather stressed about it.

sandy

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Re: A fair trial?
« Reply #164 on: April 20, 2011, 07:53:PM »
Yes but arrogant Jeremy couldn't keep his head down could he?