Russia - worrying?

[gringo]

I don't ignore the aggression as you call it. Saddam Hussein banned the UN weapons inspectors and paid the ultimate price. Gaddafi was feared to massacre civilians in Benghazi were he not removed. Putin could have requested a UN peacekeeping force to enter Crimea were he so concerned about violence against civilians. His future actions confirmed his intentions all along.

   It wasn't "aggression as I call it"- it was a war of aggression based on lies that everyone agrees now were lies. That you still act as an apologist for these blatant acts of aggression shows that you have learnt nothing. Your failure to recognise the ongoing western aggression for what it is, and always was, blinds you finding truth. You want comforting lies and will perform Olympian levels of mental gymnastics to ignore or downplay the decades of wanton destruction caused by NATO/The collective West.
     Until you can face uncomfortable truths about your own government and those it allies with, you have no prospect of forming an objective view of the current state of affairs. You don't even question the self appointed role of Western nations and alliances to remove or invade whoever is in the way of their "Rules Based Order".

[handymanz]

Russia troops invading Ukrainian towns is what made the children orphans in the first place.

I need to get my head around this. So the Russian troops invade the Ukrainian towns, round up the children, place them into the local orphanages and care homes, prior to taking them back to Russia.
So the local care homes and orphanages are used as some form of holding pens.

[David1819]

I need to get my head around this. So the Russian troops invade the Ukrainian towns, round up the children, place them into the local orphanages and care homes, prior to taking them back to Russia.
So the local care homes and orphanages are used as some form of holding pens.

Since your head is hollow, I cannot see that happening.

[David1819]

https://www.icc-cpi.int/news/situation-ukraine-icc-judges-issue-arrest-warrants-against-vladimir-vladimirovich-putin-and

"Mr Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin, born on 7 October 1952, President of the Russian Federation, is allegedly responsible for the war crime of unlawful deportation of population (children) and that of unlawful transfer of population (children) from occupied areas of Ukraine to the Russian Federation (under articles 8(2)(a)(vii) and 8(2)(b)(viii) of the Rome Statute). The crimes were allegedly committed in Ukrainian occupied territory at least from 24 February 2022. There are reasonable grounds to believe that Mr Putin bears individual criminal responsibility for the aforementioned crimes, (i) for having committed the acts directly, jointly with others and/or through others (article 25(3)(a) of the Rome Statute), and (ii) for his failure to exercise control properly over civilian and military subordinates who committed the acts, or allowed for their commission, and who were under his effective authority and control, pursuant to superior responsibility (article 28(b) of the Rome Statute)."

[David1819]

It has now been a month since Gringo claimed "Russia is about to drop the hammer" and two month since he claimed "Kyiv and Zelensky's government is about to collapse". 

[handymanz]

Since your head is hollow, I cannot see that happening.

What makes you think my head is hollow ?

If you can't answer the simple line of questioning I put to you, it is you who has a hollow head.

Now explain, how are these children being rounded up and taken to Russia?

The most logical explanation, Putin is evacuating children from the Donbas region, so as to protect them from Ukrainian shelling.

[gringo]

What makes you think my head is hollow ?

If you can't answer the simple line of questioning I put to you, it is you who has a hollow head.

Now explain, how are these children being rounded up and taken to Russia?

The most logical explanation, Putin is evacuating children from the Donbas region, so as to protect them from Ukrainian shelling.

 

Maria Lvova-Belova brought orphans from the DPR to the Nizhny Novgorod Region for placement with foster families
During a trip to the Nizhny Novgorod Region, Presidential Commissioner for Children’s Rights Maria Lvova-Belova, Governor Gleb Nikitin and Adviser to the Head of the Donetsk People’s Republic on Children’s Rights Eleonora Fedorenko placed 24 children with foster families.

Orphans from among those who arrived from the Donetsk People’s Republic to Russia on September 16 have been placed, with Maria Lvova-Belova’s assistance, with nine foster families in the Nizhny Novgorod Region in groups of two to five siblings. The age of the children ranges from six to 17, with most of them being teenagers. Some have disabilities.

All the children have been granted Russian citizenship. They stayed in orphanages for a long time, and most of them had traumatic experiences due to the many years of hostilities in Donbass. Psychologists, social workers and other specialists have worked with the potential foster parents and children to get a sense of the mood, state of mind and readiness of the children to join foster families. The focus was on choosing the right parents for the children, not the other way round.

The orphans, 125 in all, who arrived in Russia from the DPR have been placed with Russian families in 13 regions, namely, the Astrakhan, Voronezh, Kursk, Moscow, Murmansk, Nizhny Novgorod, Omsk, Penza, Rostov, Ryazan, Samara and Chelyabinsk regions and Moscow. Work on placing orphans from the republics of Donbass began this spring at the initiative of the Commissioner for Children’s Rights. About 300 orphans from the DPR have already been placed with Russian foster families, and paperwork is in the works for another 104 children from the LPR.

As part of her working trip to the Nizhny Novgorod Region, Maria Lvova-Belova discussed with Governor Gleb Nikitin social practices designed to support families with children in difficult life circumstances and progress of the Commissioner’s strategic programmes in the region. She also held a meeting of the working group on the project to reduce the number of children under four years of age at children’s homes. They agreed that, if necessary, the region will support measures for social rehabilitation of the parents who have completed treatment for alcohol addiction.

In addition, the children’s ombudsman met with two mothers who had turned their children over to institutions. In both cases, the families were facing hardship. They were offered assistance in gathering documents to make them eligible for benefits, putting them on a waiting list for a flat, and finding employment. Both mothers showed readiness to take their children back from institutions soon.



      http://en.kremlin.ru/events/administration/69414

     It isn't a war crime at all and the hysteria coming from the West is off the scale. The Russians openly reported this at the time. Nobody has been rounded up. Bolded above from the article of 22 sept 2022, we can see that a whole range of psychologists, social workers, the orphanages and others were involved in this humanitarian action to re-home orphans from separatist held areas in Donetsk. It is a ridiculous trumped up charge and the ICC has signed itself into historical irrelevance. The largest powers are anyway non-signatories and don't recognise the jurisdiction of the ICC (US, Russia, China, India). Dozens of African and Asian states are non signatories. It was already regarded as partial - I suspect other countries will leave the ICC now the mask is fully ripped away.
    The ICC has exposed itself as a Western tool so blatantly that it is impossible for the ROW to ignore. Convincing the unquestioning, thick as mince, limited attention span drones (such as David) is an irrelevance. The real propaganda war that the West/NATO need to win is with the 87% of humanity that isn't part of the collective west. It isn't going well for the West. Hence desperate "Hail Mary's" such as the latest nonsense.
    Anything to distract from the crushing defeat of the NATO backed/armed /funded Ukrainian armed forces. 

[gringo]

It has now been a month since Gringo claimed "Russia is about to drop the hammer" and two month since he claimed "Kyiv and Zelensky's government is about to collapse". 

    It is widely held that the "Siege of Stalingrad" was the pivotal battle of WW2 and that after the Nazi defeat there, the outcome of the war wasn't in doubt. The siege ended in February 1943. The war didn't end officially until 1945. It was lost for the Nazis in Feb 1943, though.
    This war is also already lost by NATO and it's Ukrainian proxy(ironically the Nazis again ). The official end depends on how much blood the Nazis are prepared to sacrifice and how much treasure their sponsors are willing to waste, could be months-could be a year-could be several years. The outcome is already known. Just as the Nazis were defeated after Stalingrad-Ukraine is already defeated.
     There is no path to victory for Ukraine. Crimea and the four oblasts are Russian and not coming back. The Ukrainian government and it's sponsors are toast as soon as this reality becomes officially recognised by them. They drag it out wasting lives and money because their(the supposed leaders) survival depends on the promise of a victory which can never come. Eventually this comes to a point where it can no longer be sustained. No government survives after that.

[Steve_uk]

   It wasn't "aggression as I call it"- it was a war of aggression based on lies that everyone agrees now were lies. That you still act as an apologist for these blatant acts of aggression shows that you have learnt nothing. Your failure to recognise the ongoing western aggression for what it is, and always was, blinds you finding truth. You want comforting lies and will perform Olympian levels of mental gymnastics to ignore or downplay the decades of wanton destruction caused by NATO/The collective West.
     Until you can face uncomfortable truths about your own government and those it allies with, you have no prospect of forming an objective view of the current state of affairs. You don't even question the self appointed role of Western nations and alliances to remove or invade whoever is in the way of their "Rules Based Order".

I didn't agree with the Iraq war. However Saddam Hussein had invaded Kuwait and used poison gas on the Kurds. He sent mixed signals to the West. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/jul/02/saddam-hussein-fbi-iraq-iran

[Steve_uk]

 

Maria Lvova-Belova brought orphans from the DPR to the Nizhny Novgorod Region for placement with foster families
During a trip to the Nizhny Novgorod Region, Presidential Commissioner for Children’s Rights Maria Lvova-Belova, Governor Gleb Nikitin and Adviser to the Head of the Donetsk People’s Republic on Children’s Rights Eleonora Fedorenko placed 24 children with foster families.

Orphans from among those who arrived from the Donetsk People’s Republic to Russia on September 16 have been placed, with Maria Lvova-Belova’s assistance, with nine foster families in the Nizhny Novgorod Region in groups of two to five siblings. The age of the children ranges from six to 17, with most of them being teenagers. Some have disabilities.

All the children have been granted Russian citizenship. They stayed in orphanages for a long time, and most of them had traumatic experiences due to the many years of hostilities in Donbass. Psychologists, social workers and other specialists have worked with the potential foster parents and children to get a sense of the mood, state of mind and readiness of the children to join foster families. The focus was on choosing the right parents for the children, not the other way round.

The orphans, 125 in all, who arrived in Russia from the DPR have been placed with Russian families in 13 regions, namely, the Astrakhan, Voronezh, Kursk, Moscow, Murmansk, Nizhny Novgorod, Omsk, Penza, Rostov, Ryazan, Samara and Chelyabinsk regions and Moscow. Work on placing orphans from the republics of Donbass began this spring at the initiative of the Commissioner for Children’s Rights. About 300 orphans from the DPR have already been placed with Russian foster families, and paperwork is in the works for another 104 children from the LPR.

As part of her working trip to the Nizhny Novgorod Region, Maria Lvova-Belova discussed with Governor Gleb Nikitin social practices designed to support families with children in difficult life circumstances and progress of the Commissioner’s strategic programmes in the region. She also held a meeting of the working group on the project to reduce the number of children under four years of age at children’s homes. They agreed that, if necessary, the region will support measures for social rehabilitation of the parents who have completed treatment for alcohol addiction.

In addition, the children’s ombudsman met with two mothers who had turned their children over to institutions. In both cases, the families were facing hardship. They were offered assistance in gathering documents to make them eligible for benefits, putting them on a waiting list for a flat, and finding employment. Both mothers showed readiness to take their children back from institutions soon.



      http://en.kremlin.ru/events/administration/69414

     It isn't a war crime at all and the hysteria coming from the West is off the scale. The Russians openly reported this at the time. Nobody has been rounded up. Bolded above from the article of 22 sept 2022, we can see that a whole range of psychologists, social workers, the orphanages and others were involved in this humanitarian action to re-home orphans from separatist held areas in Donetsk. It is a ridiculous trumped up charge and the ICC has signed itself into historical irrelevance. The largest powers are anyway non-signatories and don't recognise the jurisdiction of the ICC (US, Russia, China, India). Dozens of African and Asian states are non signatories. It was already regarded as partial - I suspect other countries will leave the ICC now the mask is fully ripped away.
    The ICC has exposed itself as a Western tool so blatantly that it is impossible for the ROW to ignore. Convincing the unquestioning, thick as mince, limited attention span drones (such as David) is an irrelevance. The real propaganda war that the West/NATO need to win is with the 87% of humanity that isn't part of the collective west. It isn't going well for the West. Hence desperate "Hail Mary's" such as the latest nonsense.
    Anything to distract from the crushing defeat of the NATO backed/armed /funded Ukrainian armed forces.

We have UN agencies to deal with this kind of thing, first and foremost amongst them being UNHCR. It should  not involve unilateral action from Russia. https://youtu.be/znEYZZdPWFc

[Steve_uk]

    It is widely held that the "Siege of Stalingrad" was the pivotal battle of WW2 and that after the Nazi defeat there, the outcome of the war wasn't in doubt. The siege ended in February 1943. The war didn't end officially until 1945. It was lost for the Nazis in Feb 1943, though.
    This war is also already lost by NATO and it's Ukrainian proxy(ironically the Nazis again :-[). The official end depends on how much blood the Nazis are prepared to sacrifice and how much treasure their sponsors are willing to waste, could be months-could be a year-could be several years. The outcome is already known. Just as the Nazis were defeated after Stalingrad-Ukraine is already defeated.
     There is no path to victory for Ukraine. Crimea and the four oblasts are Russian and not coming back. The Ukrainian government and it's sponsors are toast as soon as this reality becomes officially recognised by them. They drag it out wasting lives and money because their(the supposed leaders) survival depends on the promise of a victory which can never come. Eventually this comes to a point where it can no longer be sustained. No government survives after that.

No and for some ( but not others) it began on 3 September 1939. https://youtu.be/c_sZSuoH5WI

Zelensky is Jewish. https://youtu.be/27arBrfZm5I

..and the real hero of this war. https://time.com/6257285/ukraine-war-victory/

You can't possibly claim this. Nobody knows whether Putin will remain in power, or indeed the Chinese Communist Party for that matter. You can't force labour to work flat out without it organizing into free trades unions sooner or later. I thought all those on the Left would have grasped this fact.

[David1819]

    It is widely held that the "Siege of Stalingrad" was the pivotal battle of WW2 and that after the Nazi defeat there, the outcome of the war wasn't in doubt. The siege ended in February 1943. The war didn't end officially until 1945. It was lost for the Nazis in Feb 1943, though.
    This war is also already lost by NATO and it's Ukrainian proxy(ironically the Nazis again ). The official end depends on how much blood the Nazis are prepared to sacrifice and how much treasure their sponsors are willing to waste, could be months-could be a year-could be several years. The outcome is already known. Just as the Nazis were defeated after Stalingrad-Ukraine is already defeated.
     There is no path to victory for Ukraine. Crimea and the four oblasts are Russian and not coming back. The Ukrainian government and it's sponsors are toast as soon as this reality becomes officially recognised by them. They drag it out wasting lives and money because their(the supposed leaders) survival depends on the promise of a victory which can never come. Eventually this comes to a point where it can no longer be sustained. No government survives after that.

Pure fantasy, the four oblasts that are "not coming back" are not even fully under Russian control. lmao

[gringo]

Pure fantasy, the four oblasts that are "not coming back" are not even fully under Russian control. lmao

    What is the Ukrainian/NATO path to victory, David? And how are they doing?

[gringo]

    What is the Ukrainian/NATO path to victory, David? And how are they doing?

    The answer of course is that Ukraine and their NATO sponsors are faring very badly. Russia, despite western reporting to the contrary, are achieving their strategic objectives.
     In simple terms the Ukrainian/NATO strategic objectives are the conquering of Crimea and the four, now Russian, oblasts. After just over a year of hostilities, that they had long prepared for with the assistance of their NATO sponsors(openly admitted), how are they doing?
    Well they lost their entire Navy and air force within days of hostilities beginning. They have also burnt through all the old Soviet planes, tanks, armoured vehicles of the former Soviet but now NATO countries. Hundreds of billions of assistance from NATO countries have also been destroyed by the Russians, who seemingly have an endless supply of everything. They have lost further territory-four oblasts have voted to leave and will not be returning, are almost encircled in both Adviivka and Bakhmut, are losing the war of attrition by 8/10-1, have run out of weapons and ammo and are now running NATO stocks dry. They have also lost hundreds of thousands of men, there are countless videos of forced conscription of teenagers and old men on social media channels and they have no realistic prospect of achieving any of their aims. The most economically productive part of the country is gone. They should have accepted and attempted to implement Minsk 2 agreements.
    Russia's objectives have been stated clearly and are easily inferred anyway. The December 2021 proposal/ultimatum put forward by Russia to NATO is the ultimate aim.
 https://www.dw.com/en/russia-demands-nato-leave-eastern-europe-limit-missile-deployment/a-60173879
   Either through good faith talks or through force of arms. Those NATO countries currently on the Russian border will be facing a whole new dilemma when Ukraine is demilitarised, neutralised and no threat to Russia. Their publics facing rising inflation and reduced living standards will lose their appetite for confronting and threatening Russia. There will be no missiles in those countries that joined NATO after 1991. Ukraine's defeat will be a salutary lesson to any country. After Ukraine none will be willing to be the next to be used by NATO to poke the nuclear armed bear next door.
    Russia, despite idiotic western reporting, are not attempting to conquer land. They are attempting to remove the military threat. There is no doubt that this is being achieved.
   Ukraine are attempting to take land. There is no doubt that this is going very badly and has no prospect of success. They are going through men, arms and ammo at a rate that is now reaching it's limits. Anyone can see this if they remove the blinders.
    NATO/US/UK/EU are criminal in pursuing their territorial ambitions at such human cost and doing all they can to prevent peace agreements. No matter how many lives are wasted, the outcome will not be affected. Those governments in the west pushing this war understand this. When it is over they will likely face their own reckoning, hence their constant doubling down in desperation to avoid the inevitable. European populations are restless and protesting. Mussolini's fate beckons.

[Steve_uk]

    The answer of course is that Ukraine and their NATO sponsors are faring very badly. Russia, despite western reporting to the contrary, are achieving their strategic objectives.
     In simple terms the Ukrainian/NATO strategic objectives are the conquering of Crimea and the four, now Russian, oblasts. After just over a year of hostilities, that they had long prepared for with the assistance of their NATO sponsors(openly admitted), how are they doing?
    Well they lost their entire Navy and air force within days of hostilities beginning. They have also burnt through all the old Soviet planes, tanks, armoured vehicles of the former Soviet but now NATO countries. Hundreds of billions of assistance from NATO countries have also been destroyed by the Russians, who seemingly have an endless supply of everything. They have lost further territory-four oblasts have voted to leave and will not be returning, are almost encircled in both Adviivka and Bakhmut, are losing the war of attrition by 8/10-1, have run out of weapons and ammo and are now running NATO stocks dry. They have also lost hundreds of thousands of men, there are countless videos of forced conscription of teenagers and old men on social media channels and they have no realistic prospect of achieving any of their aims. The most economically productive part of the country is gone. They should have accepted and attempted to implement Minsk 2 agreements.
    Russia's objectives have been stated clearly and are easily inferred anyway. The December 2021 proposal/ultimatum put forward by Russia to NATO is the ultimate aim.
 https://www.dw.com/en/russia-demands-nato-leave-eastern-europe-limit-missile-deployment/a-60173879
   Either through good faith talks or through force of arms. Those NATO countries currently on the Russian border will be facing a whole new dilemma when Ukraine is demilitarised, neutralised and no threat to Russia. Their publics facing rising inflation and reduced living standards will lose their appetite for confronting and threatening Russia. There will be no missiles in those countries that joined NATO after 1991. Ukraine's defeat will be a salutary lesson to any country. After Ukraine none will be willing to be the next to be used by NATO to poke the nuclear armed bear next door.
    Russia, despite idiotic western reporting, are not attempting to conquer land. They are attempting to remove the military threat. There is no doubt that this is being achieved.
   Ukraine are attempting to take land. There is no doubt that this is going very badly and has no prospect of success. They are going through men, arms and ammo at a rate that is now reaching it's limits. Anyone can see this if they remove the blinders.
    NATO/US/UK/EU are criminal in pursuing their territorial ambitions at such human cost and doing all they can to prevent peace agreements. No matter how many lives are wasted, the outcome will not be affected. Those governments in the west pushing this war understand this. When it is over they will likely face their own reckoning, hence their constant doubling down in desperation to avoid the inevitable. European populations are restless and protesting. Mussolini's fate beckons.

I don't know where you get these statements from. Five NATO countries border Russia and none of them have made incursions.