June Bamber, did not attend bible class evening before she was killed...

[Caroline]

Alias, you have indicated that you fluctuate between guilt and innocence, so when you contemplate guilt you surly have to contemplate the two shots and staged suicide? Even if you think there was a hitman, Sheila was still shot twice and a suicide was staged.

[Adam]

I never said he CHOSE to stage a two shot suicide! That would be absolutely bonkers, can´t believe you suggest that I think like that!!
What he did was choose a weak firearm (as Patti points out), and was forced to shoot Sheila twice to kill her.
He then went on with his plan and CHOSE to stage it as a suicide, which is almost as bonkers, and I simply have a hard time believing anyone would make such a deranged decison!

There have been threads on whether he should have used a shot gun.

And threads on whether he over estimated the rifle power.

And a thread that Bamber investigated buying a five bullet shot gun from AE.

I will find the threads for you later today.

Keep up.

[Adam]

I never said he CHOSE to stage a two shot suicide! That would be absolutely bonkers, can´t believe you suggest that I think like that!!
What he did was choose a weak firearm (as Patti points out), and was forced to shoot Sheila twice to kill her.
He then went on with his plan and CHOSE to stage it as a suicide, which is almost as bonkers, and I simply have a hard time believing anyone would make such a deranged decison!

He had to stage it as something. The two other options he didn't even contemplate according to Julie. So unlikely he would consider it in the heat of the moment. They were very weak options,  as was the burning WHF down idea.

It was unfortunate he had to fire two shots into Sheila, but he was not going to deviate from his plan half way through.

To him he would think it believable that Sheila needed two shots with a weak fire arm. People still believe it today.

[Mr. Gee]

I don't understand this post.

Only Bob Woffinden and Robert Boutflour suggested Bamber may have worn a wet suit.

No one knows if he phoned his cottage from WHF. He phoned Julie when getting back to his cottage. Then rang the police, at 3.36am.

Yes but you keep on about it as it it's true. What, don't you believe he used a wet suit now?

[Adam]

Yes but you keep on about it as it it's true. What, don't you believe he used a wet suit now?

Good morning Grahame. How lovely to hear from you.

Well I created one thread several months ago titled 'Did Jeremy wear a wet suit'. As two other people had claimed this.

I believe you also created a thread on his wet suit.

[Patti]

How did he know that? Being a good shot doesn't make him an expert in anatomy. He may have angled the shot wrong, Sheila might have moved ..... and on and on.

Well we know that, so I am certain he would know that shooting her in the throat would not have killed her outright. He might not have angled the rifle wrong at all, Sheila might not have moved, because its  possible that Sheila shot herself.

[Jane]

But it does have to make sense from Bamber's point of view. If it makes no sense then he knows he would be immediately arrested but we are to believe that he carried on anyway.
    It is not credible that Jeremy,after messing up a staged scenario, then carried on his plan in such a way that rather than conceal his tracks, he actually implicated himself. Unless, as Adam suggested, he forearmed himself with knowledge about the possibility of multiple shot suicides. Just in case.

Firstly, not for a MOMENT do I believe he armed himself with such information because I don't believe he thought it COULD go wrong -up to the moment it DID, it HADN'T- and hadn't bothered to work out plan B.

You say it had to make sense to Jeremy. YES, it did. That it may NOT to us is of no consequence. The call to the police MAY not have been part of his original plan but something he threw in at the last moment -to "conceal his tracks- BECAUSE of having to shoot Sheila twice. A one shot kill would have negated the necessity for the need for him to be SEEN as being in his own home at the time. A one shot kill could have seen him -or ANYONE- turning up for work as usual.

[Patti]

There have been threads on whether he should have used a shot gun.

And threads on whether he over estimated the rifle power.

And a thread that Bamber investigated buying a five bullet shot gun from AE.

I will find the threads for you later today.

Keep up.

Adam you are being rude.

[Jane]

Well we know that, so I am certain he would know that shooting her in the throat would not have killed her outright. He might not have angled the rifle wrong at all, Sheila might not have moved, because its  possible that Sheila shot herself.

WHY would it not have killed her? How PERFECTLY ridiculous!!! He only had to angle the rifle to EITHER sent the bullet into her brain OR to hit the carotid artery. Job done. The problem was, as I see it, that whilst he could fire random shots at the others -thus making it appear as if a psychotic Sheila had done it- the shot to Sheila HAD to be precise. It MAY be that in order to achieve this, he was over cautious.

[Caroline]

Well we know that, so I am certain he would know that shooting her in the throat would not have killed her outright. He might not have angled the rifle wrong at all, Sheila might not have moved, because its  possible that Sheila shot herself.

No, we don't KNOW that at all - a shot to the throat could kill, not sure why you think it wouldn't. Catching the jugular or knocking out the brain stem WOULD KILL. I don't think it is possible that she shot herself so he might indeed have angled the rifle wrong, Sheila might have moved or he may have simply thought the shot was enough to kill her outright. From reading the documents on this shot, it doesn't say that this shot wouldn't have killed her, just that it wasn't IMMEDIATELY fatal.

You don't die after a shot to the throat? Tell that to one of the victims in the recent Paris supermarket shootings - Oh! Hang on, you can't, he died after being shot in the throat.

http://news.sky.com/story/1406646/paris-supermarket-gunman-killed-have-a-go-hero

[Caroline]

WHY would it not have killed her? How PERFECTLY ridiculous!!! He only had to angle the rifle to EITHER sent the bullet into her brain OR to hit the carotid artery. Job done. The problem was, as I see it, that whilst he could fire random shots at the others -thus making it appear as if a psychotic Sheila had done it- the shot to Sheila HAD to be precise. It MAY be that in order to achieve this, he was over cautious.

OF course April and someone used to shooting at targets isn't going to be the worlds greatest assassin!!

[Patti]

WHY would it not have killed her? How PERFECTLY ridiculous!!! He only had to angle the rifle to EITHER sent the bullet into her brain OR to hit the carotid artery. Job done. The problem was, as I see it, that whilst he could fire random shots at the others -thus making it appear as if a psychotic Sheila had done it- the shot to Sheila HAD to be precise. It MAY be that in order to achieve this, he was over cautious.

The first shot to Sheila was not precise was it, for it did not kill her.  Of course he must have known this, having like you say shot the rest of the family. Both June and Neville moved around after being shot several times, did they not? Its common sense that head shots are more likely to kill than those of a body shot.

[Caroline]

The first shot to Sheila was not precise was it, for it did not kill her.  Of course he must have known this, having like you say shot the rest of the family. Both June and Neville moved around after being shot several times, did they not? Its common sense that head shots are more likely to kill than those of a body shot.

I think we all know that, not sure what your point is? Obviously it didn't kill her, hence the second shot. What would you suggest he did when the first shot didn't kill her out-right? Go home and sleep on it? Hope for the best or that she might not remember (if still alive) that her brother killed her children and parents? He had no choice but to shoot her again so he could get the hell out of there. Where in the head do you suggest he should have shot her?

[Patti]

No, we don't KNOW that at all - a shot to the throat could kill, not sure why you think it wouldn't. Catching the jugular or knocking out the brain stem WOULD KILL. I don't think it is possible that she shot herself so he might indeed have angled the rifle wrong, Sheila might have moved or he may have simply thought the shot was enough to kill her outright. From reading the documents on this shot, it doesn't say that this shot wouldn't have killed her, just that it wasn't IMMEDIATELY fatal.

You don't die after a shot to the throat? Tell that to one of the victims in the recent Paris supermarket shootings - Oh! Hang on, you can't, he died after being shot in the throat.

http://news.sky.com/story/1406646/paris-supermarket-gunman-killed-have-a-go-hero

Of course it was possible that she could have shot herself.  If Jeremy was the killer he took  great risk in shooting her in the throat, because it was uncertain that she could have been killed outright. The evidence shows she got up on her right hand side after the first shot was fired. I don't believe that Jeremy cocked up.

What has Paris got to do with this case? What weapon was used in that attack?

[Mr. Gee]

Good morning Grahame. How lovely to hear from you.

Well I created one thread several months ago titled 'Did Jeremy wear a wet suit'. As two other people had claimed this.

I believe you also created a thread on his wet suit.

Hello Adam. How nice to see you too. But you didn't answer my question which was do you still believe Bamber wore a wet suit seeing that in effect the source for this was RWB. Woffinden only reiterated it.