June Bamber, did not attend bible class evening before she was killed...

[Caroline]

Adam I was speaking hypothetically.  I never said that Bamber should have abandoned the suicide/murder frame at all.

Oh, so you do think it was his intention then? 

[Caroline]

I can assure it is there. Bridget showed it me so its on here somewhere.

I've read the 2002 appeal doc and certainly don't recall that.

[Adam]

Adam I was speaking hypothetically.  I never said that Bamber should have abandoned the suicide/murder frame at all.

Other people have suggested Bamber was wrong to go ahead with the murder/suicide plan after Sheila's two shots.

[Caroline]

Other people have suggested Bamber was wrong to go ahead with the murder/suicide plan after Sheila's two shots.

You are now muddying the waters and you were doing so well!

[Adam]

That doesn´t really explain to me that the EP so readily accepted that it was a suicide. At all.

Adam, it is my stance; I find it hard to believe that anyone would stage a two shot murder as suicide. Live with it.

[Adam]

I repeat: he didn´t have to stage it as a suicide, that is what I am talking about. He could have walked out the door and not called the police.

[gringo]

Other people have suggested Bamber was wrong to go ahead with the murder/suicide plan after Sheila's two shots.

Some people are now suggesting that Jeremy may have read about two shot suicides during his preparations, seemingly anticipating that he may use two shots, and presumably making sure that this eventuality would not hinder his plans.
   Luckily for him he must have discovered that two shot suicides are indeed possible and as it turned out, coincidentally, he did use two shots but armed with his foreknowledge about unlikely suicides he was able to carry on as planned.
   What amazing foresight Jeremy had!!

[Alias]

Some people are now suggesting that Jeremy may have read about two shot suicides during his preparations, seemingly anticipating that he may use two shots, and presumably making sure that this eventuality would not hinder his plans.
   Luckily for him he must have discovered that two shot suicides are indeed possible and as it turned out, coincidentally, he did use two shots but armed with his foreknowledge about unlikely suicides he was able to carry on as planned.
   What amazing foresight Jeremy had!!

Thank you Gringo for kind words in a previous post.
And what you say here makes perfect sense!

Thank you Steve for finding an example of a multiple shot suicide, it does happen; but what I was actually asking for were examples of multiple shot murders staged as suicides.
Normally burglaries are staged in such instances, not suicides. 

[gringo]

It doesn't have to make sense, sometimes life throws a spanner in the works. Perhaps did tailor his plan and decided to include a phone from his dead father to make SEEM as though he were elsewhere when his family were killed.

But it does have to make sense from Bamber's point of view. If it makes no sense then he knows he would be immediately arrested but we are to believe that he carried on anyway.
    It is not credible that Jeremy,after messing up a staged scenario, then carried on his plan in such a way that rather than conceal his tracks, he actually implicated himself. Unless, as Adam suggested, he forearmed himself with knowledge about the possibility of multiple shot suicides. Just in case.

[Caroline]

Thank you Gringo for kind words in a previous post.
And what you say here makes perfect sense!

Thank you Steve for finding an example of a multiple shot suicide, it does happen; but what I was actually asking for were examples of multiple shot murders staged as suicides.
Normally burglaries are staged in such instances, not suicides. 

No one would CHOOSE to fake a multiple shot suicide, it's not a pattern to be followed, so why would there be others if the two shots weren't planned?

[Caroline]

But it does have to make sense from Bamber's point of view. If it makes no sense then he knows he would be immediately arrested but we are to believe that he carried on anyway.
    It is not credible that Jeremy,after messing up a staged scenario, then carried on his plan in such a way that rather than conceal his tracks, he actually implicated himself. Unless, as Adam suggested, he forearmed himself with knowledge about the possibility of multiple shot suicides. Just in case.

He did conceal his tracks - with the phone call. If he he leads police to believe he was elsewhere when the killing occurred, he might just get away with it - he ALMOST did!

[Patti]

Here we have Jeremy a man who is able to handle a rifle confidently and, by all means a relatively good shot according to his cousin AP.

June had 6 shots before the final shot to the head killed her.
Neville had 4 shots before the final 4 shots to his head killed him.

Why then? If he was framing Sheila for the murders did he shoot her in the throat knowing that would not kill her outright?

[Caroline]

Here we have Jeremy a man who is able to handle a rifle confidently and, by all means a relatively good shot according to his cousin AP.

June had 6 shots before the final shot to the head killed her.
Neville had 4 shots before the final 4 shots to his head killed him.

Why then? If he was framing Sheila for the murders did he shoot her in the throat knowing that would not kill her outright?

How did he know that? Being a good shot doesn't make him an expert in anatomy. He may have angled the shot wrong, Sheila might have moved ..... and on and on.

[Alias]

No one would CHOOSE to fake a multiple shot suicide, it's not a pattern to be followed, so why would there be others if the two shots weren't planned?

I never said he CHOSE to stage a two shot suicide! That would be absolutely bonkers, can´t believe you suggest that I think like that!!
What he did was choose a weak firearm (as Patti points out), and was forced to shoot Sheila twice to kill her.
He then went on with his plan and CHOSE to stage it as a suicide, which is almost as bonkers, and I simply have a hard time believing anyone would make such a deranged decison!

[Caroline]

I never said he CHOSE to stage a two shot suicide! That would be absolutely bonkers, can´t believe you suggest that I think like that!!
What he did was choose a weak firearm (as Patti points out), and was forced to shoot Sheila twice to kill her.
He then went on with his plan and CHOSE to stage it as a suicide, which is almost as bonkers, and I simply have a hard time believing anyone would make such a deranged decison!

You asked if there had been other multiple shot staged suicides - why would there be if it was a mistake?

The firearm was affective, it killed 5 people.

So you have a hard time believing he chose to still stage the suicide - fine by me.

I don't think it's bonkers at all - he had no choice but to cover his arse and that's what he did. Almost got away with it - but not quite.