Author Topic: Neville calling Jeremy. A time for closure ?  (Read 8662 times)

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Offline Adam

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Re: Neville calling Jeremy. A time for closure ?
« Reply #75 on: December 07, 2014, 06:23:PM »
Hopefully Jan will go through my 40 odd facts in her red writing. At least there can then be some discussion.

Or someone on here might actually say 'why' Neville would phone Jeremy. Mind you one reason does not negate 40. But it's a start and can at least be discussed.

If people think Neville called because he believed Jeremy would rush over & calm Sheila down, just say. Supporters must have a reason.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2014, 06:31:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Mr. Gee

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Re: Neville calling Jeremy. A time for closure ?
« Reply #76 on: December 07, 2014, 06:36:PM »
In a nutshell -

Neville would only call his son if he thought he could save everyone's life. But if Neville & June can't....

Once a decision is made that Jeremy may be able to save everyone, other things have to be ignored -

It's 3am.
Jeremy is 3 miles away.
The answering machine may be on
Plus another 40 odd reasons on page one.
Wrong. Nevill would have phoned Jeremy because he needed help to control his sister who ha gone crazy just as she had in the past.

Offline Adam

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Re: Neville calling Jeremy. A time for closure ?
« Reply #77 on: December 07, 2014, 06:39:PM »
Wrong. Nevill would have phoned Jeremy because he needed help to control his sister who ha gone crazy just as she had in the past.

Do you think Neville would have ignored the 40 odd facts on page one ?
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Mr. Gee

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Re: Neville calling Jeremy. A time for closure ?
« Reply #78 on: December 07, 2014, 06:47:PM »
Those are not facts. They are all imaginative assumptions dreamed up by yourself. Most of them would not apply. The suggestion that I gave was a logical one, that Ralph would have phoned Jeremy for his help with Sheila who had thrown one of her tantrums, what had apparently happened before. If was obvious that Ralph did not expect Sheila to use the gun?
It is possible that as he heard her upstairs and the gun went off that he went to hang up the phone, missed the cradle and at the same time hitting the button in the cradle cutting off the phone and thus making it impossible for anyone to phone back?

Offline Adam

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Re: Neville calling Jeremy. A time for closure ?
« Reply #79 on: December 07, 2014, 06:48:PM »
1: Jeremy may not answer. Regardless of whether he heard the phone ringing or not.

2:Neville may not have time. Sheila was going crazy. There were five people inside WHF who were the priority.

3:He may not answer for a long time as was 'sleeping like a log'.

4: Neville may only get the answering machine.

5: Neville will assume the answering machine is switched on. Making it impossible for Jeremy to answer the phone within 3 - 8 rings as he was 'sleeping like a log'.

6: Jeremy did not like Sheila or understand her illness.  So would just make things worse when trying to talk her down.

7: Sheila did not like Jeremy.

8: Another adult, June was available at WHF.

9: The rifle was not powerful, being used for vermin. Neville would know this. So Neville would tackle Sheila prior to shots being fired.

10: Sheila had 'limited'/ no experience with guns. So Neville would tackle Sheila prior to shots being fired.

11: Neville could restrain Sheila easily. If fully or even partially fit.

12: Neville and June together could restrain Sheila easily. If fully or even partially fit.

13: Jeremy was three miles away and not dressed. 

14: The police had been called by Neville ten minutes earlier.

15: Neville would be putting his only son in danger.

16: Jeremy may be scared to go over. He told Liz Rimmington that Sheila was going 'back to the nut house' and told the police she had committed child abuse. Now Neville had told him she had 'gone crazy' with a gun.

17: Jeremy did not have a key to WHF so would have to smash the door down, or smash a window. Or shout through the letter box. Making Sheila more excitable.  Neville may not have been aware that Jeremy could get in through windows.

18: Sheila would not be pleased to see him.

19: Jeremy would be reluctant to rush over if answering the phone. Having poor relations with all the family.

20: Jeremy may refuse to go over. Being tired and upset at being woken.Lookout said it was common for Sheila to have 'one of her turns' so he may have decided to go back to bed.

21: Jeremy may not rush over. Maybe wasting up to 26 minutes doing strange things.

22: Jeremy may just ring nearby farm workers and tell them to go over. Something Neville could do himself and may consider a better option.

23: Jeremy may just ring the Foakes's and tell them to go over. Something Neville could do and may consider a better option. 

24: Neville calling someone would antagonise Sheila. She may even brutally beat someone.

25: Neville could call the Foakes's. Who were two adults living at WHF.

26: There was no time to make any calls if Sheila had 'gone' crazy with a gun. 

27: When there was time to make a call Neville had the option of restraining Sheila. Getting June to assist.

28: There was no time to wait for someone to arrive. Sheila had 'gone 'crazy'.

28: Relations between the two were poor and getting worse.   After Jeremy robbed the caravan site and spent the money.

30: Neville would be prepared to take a torso bullet in order to restrain Sheila. Knowing the gun was for shooting vermin/rabbits and a torso shot would not kill him.

31: The kitchen phone was downstairs. Meaning everyone would be left upstairs. Unless Sheila had accompanied him downstairs.

32: If the answering machine was switched off, as his supporters claim. Jeremy would not hear his downstairs phone. If his bedroom door was shut.

33: Neville was bigger and stronger than Jeremy and the head of the family.

34: Sheila would have to let Neville open the door when Jeremy arrives. Or Neville would have to put himself in danger by getting to the front door against Sheila's wishes.

35: Sheila is more likely to fire bullets if more people start pressurising her and arriving on the scene.

36: Neville would be aware that he was the person who always had most success in calming down an excited Sheila. If he couldn't, then someone who thought Sheila was a 'looney' certainly could not.

37: Jeremy was not known to be especially brave. So may refuse to go anywhere near the inside of WHF. Preferring to stay 50 yards from the entrance.  This is what happened.

38: Neville would be implicating his son if there were any injuries or fatalities. As Jeremy would be first on the scene and first witness. This is what happened.

39: Jeremy was not known for being especially brave. So may have just phoned the police. Neville had either already done this. Or wanted to keep things private. Jeremy did in fact call the police.

40: It is not standard practice to call relations on the phone at 3am when you're life is in danger. There are no other examples of this happening.


Exactly 40 ! All facts, unless, don't tell me June was not there  :)
« Last Edit: December 07, 2014, 06:50:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Mr. Gee

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Re: Neville calling Jeremy. A time for closure ?
« Reply #80 on: December 07, 2014, 06:51:PM »
1: Jeremy may not answer. Regardless of whether he heard the phone ringing or not.

2:Neville may not have time. Sheila was going crazy. There were five people inside WHF who were the priority.

3:He may not answer for a long time as was 'sleeping like a log'.

4: Neville may only get the answering machine.

5: Neville will assume the answering machine is switched on. Making it impossible for Jeremy to answer the phone within 3 - 8 rings as he was 'sleeping like a log'.

6: Jeremy did not like Sheila or understand her illness.  So would just make things worse when trying to talk her down.

7: Sheila did not like Jeremy.

8: Another adult, June was available at WHF.

9: The rifle was not powerful, being used for vermin. Neville would know this. So Neville would tackle Sheila prior to shots being fired.

10: Sheila had 'limited'/ no experience with guns. So Neville would tackle Sheila prior to shots being fired.

11: Neville could restrain Sheila easily. If fully or even partially fit.

12: Neville and June together could restrain Sheila easily. If fully or even partially fit.

13: Jeremy was three miles away and not dressed. 

14: The police had been called by Neville ten minutes earlier.

15: Neville would be putting his only son in danger.

16: Jeremy may be scared to go over. He told Liz Rimmington that Sheila was going 'back to the nut house' and told the police she had committed child abuse. Now Neville had told him she had 'gone crazy' with a gun.

17: Jeremy did not have a key to WHF so would have to smash the door down, or smash a window. Or shout through the letter box. Making Sheila more excitable.  Neville may not have been aware that Jeremy could get in through windows.

18: Sheila would not be pleased to see him.

19: Jeremy would be reluctant to rush over if answering the phone. Having poor relations with all the family.

20: Jeremy may refuse to go over. Being tired and upset at being woken.Lookout said it was common for Sheila to have 'one of her turns' so he may have decided to go back to bed.

21: Jeremy may not rush over. Maybe wasting up to 26 minutes doing strange things.

22: Jeremy may just ring nearby farm workers and tell them to go over. Something Neville could do himself and may consider a better option.

23: Jeremy may just ring the Foakes's and tell them to go over. Something Neville could do and may consider a better option. 

24: Neville calling someone would antagonise Sheila. She may even brutally beat someone.

25: Neville could call the Foakes's. Who were two adults living at WHF.

26: There was no time to make any calls if Sheila had 'gone' crazy with a gun. 

27: When there was time to make a call Neville had the option of restraining Sheila. Getting June to assist.

28: There was no time to wait for someone to arrive. Sheila had 'gone 'crazy'.

28: Relations between the two were poor and getting worse.   After Jeremy robbed the caravan site and spent the money.

30: Neville would be prepared to take a torso bullet in order to restrain Sheila. Knowing the gun was for shooting vermin/rabbits and a torso shot would not kill him.

31: The kitchen phone was downstairs. Meaning everyone would be left upstairs. Unless Sheila had accompanied him downstairs.

32: If the answering machine was switched off, as his supporters claim. Jeremy would not hear his downstairs phone. If his bedroom door was shut.

33: Neville was bigger and stronger than Jeremy and the head of the family.

34: Sheila would have to let Neville open the door when Jeremy arrives. Or Neville would have to put himself in danger by getting to the front door against Sheila's wishes.

35: Sheila is more likely to fire bullets if more people start pressurising her and arriving on the scene.

36: Neville would be aware that he was the person who always had most success in calming down an excited Sheila. If he couldn't, then someone who thought Sheila was a 'looney' certainly could not.

37: Jeremy was not known to be especially brave. So may refuse to go anywhere near the inside of WHF. Preferring to stay 50 yards from the entrance.  This is what happened.

38: Neville would be implicating his son if there were any injuries or fatalities. As Jeremy would be first on the scene and first witness. This is what happened.

39: Jeremy was not known for being especially brave. So may have just phoned the police. Neville had either already done this. Or wanted to keep things private. Jeremy did in fact call the police.

40: It is not standard practice to call relations on the phone at 3am when you're life is in danger. There are no other examples of this happening.


Exactly 40 ! All facts, unless, don't tell me June was not there  :)
Yes I have already given my opinion on that in the post just before you posted your list here.

Offline Jan

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Re: Neville calling Jeremy. A time for closure ?
« Reply #81 on: December 07, 2014, 07:06:PM »
1: Jeremy may not answer. Regardless of whether he heard the phone ringing or not.

2:Neville may not have time. Sheila was going crazy. There were five people inside WHF who were the priority.

3:He may not answer for a long time as was 'sleeping like a log'.

4: Neville may only get the answering machine.

5: Neville will assume the answering machine is switched on. Making it impossible for Jeremy to answer the phone within 3 - 8 rings as he was 'sleeping like a log'.

6: Jeremy did not like Sheila or understand her illness.  So would just make things worse when trying to talk her down.

7: Sheila did not like Jeremy.

8: Another adult, June was available at WHF.

9: The rifle was not powerful, being used for vermin. Neville would know this. So Neville would tackle Sheila prior to shots being fired.

10: Sheila had 'limited'/ no experience with guns. So Neville would tackle Sheila prior to shots being fired.

11: Neville could restrain Sheila easily. If fully or even partially fit.

12: Neville and June together could restrain Sheila easily. If fully or even partially fit.

13: Jeremy was three miles away and not dressed. 

14: The police had been called by Neville ten minutes earlier.

15: Neville would be putting his only son in danger.

16: Jeremy may be scared to go over. He told Liz Rimmington that Sheila was going 'back to the nut house' and told the police she had committed child abuse. Now Neville had told him she had 'gone crazy' with a gun.

17: Jeremy did not have a key to WHF so would have to smash the door down, or smash a window. Or shout through the letter box. Making Sheila more excitable.  Neville may not have been aware that Jeremy could get in through windows.

18: Sheila would not be pleased to see him.

19: Jeremy would be reluctant to rush over if answering the phone. Having poor relations with all the family.

20: Jeremy may refuse to go over. Being tired and upset at being woken.Lookout said it was common for Sheila to have 'one of her turns' so he may have decided to go back to bed.

21: Jeremy may not rush over. Maybe wasting up to 26 minutes doing strange things.

22: Jeremy may just ring nearby farm workers and tell them to go over. Something Neville could do himself and may consider a better option.

23: Jeremy may just ring the Foakes's and tell them to go over. Something Neville could do and may consider a better option. 

24: Neville calling someone would antagonise Sheila. She may even brutally beat someone.

25: Neville could call the Foakes's. Who were two adults living at WHF.

26: There was no time to make any calls if Sheila had 'gone' crazy with a gun. 

27: When there was time to make a call Neville had the option of restraining Sheila. Getting June to assist.

28: There was no time to wait for someone to arrive. Sheila had 'gone 'crazy'.

28: Relations between the two were poor and getting worse.   After Jeremy robbed the caravan site and spent the money.

30: Neville would be prepared to take a torso bullet in order to restrain Sheila. Knowing the gun was for shooting vermin/rabbits and a torso shot would not kill him.

31: The kitchen phone was downstairs. Meaning everyone would be left upstairs. Unless Sheila had accompanied him downstairs.

32: If the answering machine was switched off, as his supporters claim. Jeremy would not hear his downstairs phone. If his bedroom door was shut.

33: Neville was bigger and stronger than Jeremy and the head of the family.

34: Sheila would have to let Neville open the door when Jeremy arrives. Or Neville would have to put himself in danger by getting to the front door against Sheila's wishes.

35: Sheila is more likely to fire bullets if more people start pressurising her and arriving on the scene.

36: Neville would be aware that he was the person who always had most success in calming down an excited Sheila. If he couldn't, then someone who thought Sheila was a 'looney' certainly could not.

37: Jeremy was not known to be especially brave. So may refuse to go anywhere near the inside of WHF. Preferring to stay 50 yards from the entrance.  This is what happened.

38: Neville would be implicating his son if there were any injuries or fatalities. As Jeremy would be first on the scene and first witness. This is what happened.

39: Jeremy was not known for being especially brave. So may have just phoned the police. Neville had either already done this. Or wanted to keep things private. Jeremy did in fact call the police.

40: It is not standard practice to call relations on the phone at 3am when you're life is in danger. There are no other examples of this happening.


Exactly 40 ! All facts, unless, don't tel





check the dictionary - these are not FACTS .

And if you think NB was going to sit there and weigh up your 40 "scenarios"  before picking up the phone then I really do give up with you .



« Last Edit: December 07, 2014, 07:11:PM by Jan »

Offline Adam

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Re: Neville calling Jeremy. A time for closure ?
« Reply #82 on: December 07, 2014, 07:16:PM »



check the dictionary - these are not FACTS .

And if you think NB was going to sit there and weigh up your 40 "scenarios"  before picking up the phone then I really do give up with you .

Well he would already know most of these things beforehand.

Such as it was 3am and the rifle was not powerful .Together with several more basic things, such as Jeremy would be asleep three miles away, with his answering machine on. So it would not cross his mind to weigh up whether to ring him.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2014, 07:18:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Jan

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Re: Neville calling Jeremy. A time for closure ?
« Reply #83 on: December 07, 2014, 08:08:PM »
Well he would already know most of these things beforehand.

Such as it was 3am and the rifle was not powerful .Together with several more basic things, such as Jeremy would be asleep three miles away, with his answering machine on. So it would not cross his mind to weigh up whether to ring him.

it was a powerful enough rifle to kill the family?

And like we have said before you don't know what had actually happened at the point of the call? so how can you make assumptions about his thoughts when you don't know what the situation was?

Offline Adam

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Re: Neville calling Jeremy. A time for closure ?
« Reply #84 on: December 07, 2014, 08:40:PM »
it was a powerful enough rifle to kill the family?

And like we have said before you don't know what had actually happened at the point of the call? so how can you make assumptions about his thoughts when you don't know what the situation was?

Well Neville needed 8 bullets (several head shots) & a brutal beating to die. So would know he could afford a torso shot or two if Sheila reacted to a restraining attempt. He would also know Sheila was un cordinated and inexperienced with guns.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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Re: Neville calling Jeremy. A time for closure ?
« Reply #85 on: December 07, 2014, 08:49:PM »
Neville's call is really a double whammy.

No one can give a credible explanation of what Sheila was doing when Neville phoned. Which matches his words.

Then there are 40 facts on why Neville would not phone.

This is why I created the thread. Perhaps it's time for closure.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline nugnug

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Re: Neville calling Jeremy. A time for closure ?
« Reply #86 on: December 07, 2014, 08:58:PM »
as i said before the police to start with exepted there was a phonecall.

Offline Alias

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Re: Neville calling Jeremy. A time for closure ?
« Reply #87 on: December 07, 2014, 08:59:PM »
Neville's call is really a double whammy.

No one can give a credible explanation of what Sheila was doing when Neville phoned. Which matches his words.

Then there are 40 facts on why Neville would not phone.

This is why I created the thread. Perhaps it's time for closure.

Good Lord, you are one annoying little bugger!

Mr. Gee

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Re: Neville calling Jeremy. A time for closure ?
« Reply #88 on: December 07, 2014, 09:14:PM »
Well Neville needed 8 bullets (several head shots) & a brutal beating to die. So would know he could afford a torso shot or two if Sheila reacted to a restraining attempt. He would also know Sheila was un cordinated and inexperienced with guns.
On the one hand you are saying that Ralph would phone the police first as Sheila had a gun and was going crazy. But on the other hand you say that the gun wasn't all that powerful anyway so he wouldn't have phone Jeremy for help?
But of course you must know that the most likely of scenarios was mine, because Ralph had help from Jeremy to restrain Sheila before and therefore it was the logical thing to do to phone Jeremy for help? Answering machines are no problem. I have one and it is always on, but it doesn't stop me from hearing the phone though. Jeremy's cottage was very small. If you saw it for yourself (I have) you would soon realise how easy it was to hear the phone from upstairs. I'm not sure whether Jeremy was sleeping "like a log" or not. But I know that in the phone call he made to his girlfriend that night he said he couldn't sleep. So mystery solved.

Offline Adam

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Re: Neville calling Jeremy. A time for closure ?
« Reply #89 on: December 07, 2014, 09:26:PM »
On the one hand you are saying that Ralph would phone the police first as Sheila had a gun and was going crazy. But on the other hand you say that the gun wasn't all that powerful anyway so he wouldn't have phone Jeremy for help?
But of course you must know that the most likely of scenarios was mine, because Ralph had help from Jeremy to restrain Sheila before and therefore it was the logical thing to do to phone Jeremy for help? Answering machines are no problem. I have one and it is always on, but it doesn't stop me from hearing the phone though. Jeremy's cottage was very small. If you saw it for yourself (I have) you would soon realise how easy it was to hear the phone from upstairs. I'm not sure whether Jeremy was sleeping "like a log" or not. But I know that in the phone call he made to his girlfriend that night he said he couldn't sleep. So mystery solved.

Well Jeremy said 20 years later that Neville phoned the police ten minutes beforehand.

The rifle was not powerful. Which is why Jeremy enquired about buying a 5 bore shot gun.

Have you got a source that Neville had to call Jeremy before ? I thought Sheila lived in London & Jeremy in Essex.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.