Author Topic: Neville calling Jeremy. A time for closure ?  (Read 8647 times)

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Offline Adam

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Neville calling Jeremy. A time for closure ?
« on: December 06, 2014, 10:04:AM »
The judge called Neville's call 'difficult or impossible to understand and explain' / 'mysterious'. He is correct as there are a lot of reasons why Neville would not call Jeremy -


Jeremy may not answer. Regardless of whether he heard the phone ringing or not.

Neville may not have time. Sheila was going crazy. There were five people inside WHF who were the priority.

He may not answer for a long time as was 'sleeping like a log'.

Neville may only get the answering machine.

Neville will assume the answering machine is switched on. Making it impossible for Jeremy to answer the phone within 3 - 8 rings as he was 'sleeping like a log'.

Jeremy did not like Sheila or understand her illness.  So would just make things worse when trying to talk her down.

Sheila did not like Jeremy.

Another adult, June was available at WHF.

The rifle was not powerful, being used for vermin. Neville would know this. So Neville would tackle Sheila prior to shots being fired.

Sheila had 'limited'/ no experience with guns. So Neville would tackle Sheila prior to shots being fired.

Neville could restrain Sheila easily. If fully or even partially fit.

Neville and June together could restrain Sheila easily. If fully or even partially fit.

Jeremy was three miles away and not dressed. 

The police had been called by Neville ten minutes earlier.

Neville would be putting his only son in danger.

Jeremy may be scared to go over. He told Liz Rimmington that Sheila was going 'back to the nut house' and told the police she had committed child abuse. Now Neville had told him she had 'gone crazy' with a gun.

Jeremy did not have a key to WHF so would have to smash the door down, or smash a window. Or shout through the letter box. Making Sheila more excitable.  Neville may not have been aware that Jeremy could get in through windows.

Sheila would not be pleased to see him.

Jeremy would be reluctant to rush over if answering the phone. Having poor relations with all the family.

Jeremy may refuse to go over. Being tired and upset at being woken.Lookout said it was common for Sheila to have 'one of her turns' so he may have decided to go back to bed.

Jeremy may not rush over. Maybe wasting up to 26 minutes doing strange things.

Jeremy may just ring nearby farm workers and tell them to go over. Something Neville could do himself and may consider a better option.

Jeremy may just ring the Foakes's and tell them to go over. Something Neville could do and may consider a better option. 

Neville calling someone would antagonise Sheila. She may even brutally beat someone.

Neville could call the Foakes's. Who were two adults living at WHF.

There was no time to make any calls if Sheila had 'gone' crazy with a gun. 

When there was time to make a call Neville had the option of restraining Sheila. Getting June to assist.

There was no time to wait for someone to arrive. Sheila had 'gone 'crazy'.

Relations between the two were poor and getting worse.   After Jeremy robbed the caravan site and spent the money.

Neville would be prepared to take a torso bullet in order to restrain Sheila. Knowing the gun was for shooting vermin/rabbits and a torso shot would not kill him.

The kitchen phone was downstairs. Meaning everyone would be left upstairs. Unless Sheila had accompanied him downstairs.

If the answering machine was switched off, as his supporters claim. Jeremy would not hear his downstairs phone. If his bedroom door was shut.

Other doors in Bamber's cottage may also be shut.

Neville was bigger and stronger than Jeremy and the head of the family.

Sheila would have to let Neville open the door when Jeremy arrives. Or Neville would have to put himself in danger by getting to the front door against Sheila's wishes.

Sheila is more likely to fire bullets if more people start pressurising her and arriving on the scene.

Neville would be aware that he was the person who always had most success in calming down an excited Sheila. If he couldn't, then someone who thought Sheila was a 'looney' certainly could not.

Jeremy was not known to be especially brave. So may refuse to go anywhere near the inside of WHF. Preferring to stay 50 yards from the entrance.  This is what happened.

Neville would be implicating his son if there were any injuries or fatalities. As Jeremy would be first on the scene and first witness. This is what happened.

Jeremy was not known for being especially brave. So may have just phoned the police. Neville had either already done this. Or wanted to keep things private. Jeremy did in fact call the police.

It is not standard practice to call relations on the phone at 3am when you're life is in danger. There are no other examples of this happening.


Do people believe after 29 years,  it is time for closure on this issue ?
« Last Edit: June 30, 2017, 05:16:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Alias

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Re: Neville calling Jeremy. A time for closure ?
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2014, 03:55:PM »
When did the judge use the word, "mysterious" about the alleged phonecall?
I hope it was after the verdict. A judge is supposed to be impartial and leave it to the prosecution and defence to try to influence the jury.

Online nugnug

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Re: Neville calling Jeremy. A time for closure ?
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2014, 03:56:PM »
in practice judges hardly ever do though.

Offline Alias

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Re: Neville calling Jeremy. A time for closure ?
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2014, 04:00:PM »
in practice judges hardly ever do though.

I have followed a couple of court cases online. In those the judges did stay completely neutral. They can air their opinions and thoughts after the verdict at sentencing, not before.

Online nugnug

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Re: Neville calling Jeremy. A time for closure ?
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2014, 04:01:PM »
were the us cases or uk cases.

Offline Alias

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Re: Neville calling Jeremy. A time for closure ?
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2014, 04:10:PM »
were the us cases or uk cases.

They were us cases.

Online nugnug

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Re: Neville calling Jeremy. A time for closure ?
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2014, 04:14:PM »
in the us a jusge isnt allowed to some on the facts in most states only the law in the uk the judge can say any old bollocks he likes and they often do.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2014, 05:48:PM by nugnug »

Offline Alias

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Re: Neville calling Jeremy. A time for closure ?
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2014, 04:23:PM »
in the us a jusge isnt allowed on the facts in most states only the law in the uk the judge can say any old bollocks he likes and they often do.

I didn´t know that. It doesn´t seem fair!

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Re: Neville calling Jeremy. A time for closure ?
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2014, 04:26:PM »
well if the summing up was to biaised it can be grounds for appeal but that on its own is unlikely to work.

Offline Adam

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Re: Neville calling Jeremy. A time for closure ?
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2014, 04:42:PM »
A judges summing up can mention more about alleged guilt or innocence. Depending on the evidence presented at trial.

Jeremy's first appeal was on the judge. After it was dismissed he focused on the silencer.

There is a thread on the judges summing up.
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Re: Neville calling Jeremy. A time for closure ?
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2014, 10:39:PM »
The judge was a nincompoop. The reason Nevill phoned Jeremy should be obvious even to the most idiotic numbskull. The only reason they don't believe it is because they want to believe Jeremy is guilty. And that is the ONLY reason. For if they were to acknowledge that phone call then it would mean Jeremy is innocent of the crime. So they only way for them is to deny it giving silly and foolish reasons as to why he wouldn't call him. A very easy thing to deny I should say. Why? Oh because it was never meant to be an alibi for Jeremy that's why.

Offline Caroline

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Re: Neville calling Jeremy. A time for closure ?
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2014, 02:39:AM »
The judge was a nincompoop. The reason Nevill phoned Jeremy should be obvious even to the most idiotic numbskull. The only reason they don't believe it is because they want to believe Jeremy is guilty. And that is the ONLY reason. For if they were to acknowledge that phone call then it would mean Jeremy is innocent of the crime. So they only way for them is to deny it giving silly and foolish reasons as to why he wouldn't call him. A very easy thing to deny I should say. Why? Oh because it was never meant to be an alibi for Jeremy that's why.

It's not a case of 'wanting' to believe Jeremy is guilty at all. Personally I don't believe the call happened because he is now willing to completely change the times in order to fit in a call from Neville. What is true now, was true then - you can't just change the time to suit.
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Offline lebaleb

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Re: Neville calling Jeremy. A time for closure ?
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2014, 07:45:AM »
It wasn't just Jeremy unsure of times. Police couldn't read clocks, neither it seems could JM or her flatmates.

Offline Adam

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Re: Neville calling Jeremy. A time for closure ?
« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2014, 09:50:AM »
I am very surprised Jan has not gone through each reasons on my thread post in her red writing. Mind you there are nearly 40 reasons why Neville would not call Jeremy.
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Offline Adam

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Re: Neville calling Jeremy. A time for closure ?
« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2014, 09:55:AM »
The only reason I have been given for Neville calling Jeremy is that he needed his support  :)

Neville was 9 inches taller and about 5 stone heavier than Sheila. He also had another adult at WHF to assist him. So not sure why he would ring Jeremy, who refused to go within 50 yards of WHF on the night.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.