Was Sheila Caffell set up by her brother Jeremy Bamber?

[chelmsey]

He wouldnt have used his car to go to whf to carry out the murders.I think the neighbours at both Golhanger and the cottages at WHF would have noticed.The wetsuit was taken from JBs cottage.

[Kaldin]

The car sounds better. If he had already used the car and at speed the engine would be hot.  Thus the need to be on the road with the car after he had reported the call from Ralph to the police and the greater need not to beat the police to the scene.

Lets be honest guys.  If your father phoned you asking for help because your deranged sister had a gun would you doddle along at 20 mph???

If he thought he might be shot, then it's understandable. The farm's right out in the sticks - nobody to help etc.

[andrea]

is it fact he was only doing 20mph?

the police would have been going at some speed, they could have underestimated the speed jb was going at.

[chelmsey]

Apparantly he was doing the speed limit of 30mph.He knew the police were coming,perhaps he didnt want to get nicked for speeding 

[chochokeira]

The lady in Scotland did not kill herself. It seens it was enough for her to know that nobody else was going to have her children.
She was not as far as I am aware mentally disturbed.
I ask again was Sheilas mental condition common knowledge in the commumity. Perhaps I should explain why I would like to know this.
As you all must know by now I do not think that Sheila murdered her family, nor am I convinced Jeremy did.
If certain people knew Sheila was vunerable it would be beyond the realms of reality to do the murders, and make it look like she had done it.
When I say people I mean family, and wronged fathers.

The woman in Edinburgh does have a history of mental illness Clifford.  Donald Findlay QC, defending, said a report into his client's mental state identified she was suffering narcissistic, paranoid and hysterical personality disorders.

I would agree with you about Jeremy if there hadn't been an attempt to incriminate Sheila in the murders.  The very fact that this occurred points the finger firmly towards Jeremy and that is why 10 out of the 12 jurors saw fit to convict him of the murders irrespective of whether or not he pulled the trigger at least 26 times according to the wounds.

I can't agree with that. A huge amount of evidence was withheld from the judge and jury. Some witnesses gave statements that were untrue and which misled the court. There is no way on God's earth that this was a fair trial. Had justice been done, there could well have a been a different outcome.

[sandy]

They were behind him and justice was seen to have been done.

It is very simple actually. Jeremy had to make sure he was on the road and that the police got to the farmhouse first or he would have been the no1 suspect.

[chelmsey]

The wetsuit was Robert Boutflours fantasy.Think he may have been into rubber 

[andrea]

The wetsuit was Robert Boutflours fantasy.Think he may have been into rubber 

well, you never know 

[Paul]

They were behind him and justice was seen to have been done.

It is very simple actually. Jeremy had to make sure he was on the road and that the police got to the farmhouse first or he would have been the no1 suspect.

good post

[chochokeira]

It appears that the Boutflour and Eaton families now own all but a few of the Bamber family assets yet jurors at Jeremy's trial were informed that Robert Boutflour would not inherit anything following the deaths. He would, it was therefore believed, not have any financial incentive for the evidence he was to provide in his testimony.

The jury had no knowledge of who would therefore benefit financially from Jeremy's conviction. Robert Boutflour, his son David and his daughter Ann Eaton frequently visited the police and accompanied them to White House Farm.

It was argued that Sheila would have been unable to fire and reload the rifle. Ann Eaton testified that Sheila had very little knowledge of guns; indeed, she stated that Sheila did not know one end of a gun from the other when in reality she had been taught how to fire guns, including shotguns, whilst on a shooting holiday in Scotland with David Boutflour. Photographs of Sheila holding guns were found.

Sheila had also participated in target shooting and so had used firearms on numerous occasions over a number of years. She had observed the Anschutz having been reloaded. Indeed, she had watched Bamber load the rifle on the eve of her death. Sheila had lived on a farm, where firearms were used on a regular basis, for much of her life. Under such circumstances, it is inconceivable to believe that she was unable to use a rifle at short range.

It does not follow however that Sheila could have been capable of killing members of her own family and especially so when in a confused state of mind.

She would have been capable of carrying out the killing whether she had extensive knowledge of guns or not in my opinion.

What confuses me is that a sensible businessman and magistrate like Nevill Bamber would ring Jeremy at 3am in the morning? His mentally disturbed daughter is going crazy. According to Mike in the other thread Jeremy tells police his father said 'She has got one of my guns'.

As a father of three myself, I would not ring my son at 3am from a static phone whilst someone was wandering around my house with a rifle losing the plot with my wife and two 6 year old grandchildren in the house.

I would love to know from any other members on the forum with children/ grandchildren if they would have done what Nevill did.

Yes, but you are not inclined to denial as the Bambers were. There seems to have been a pattern of denial and cover ups surrounding Sheila Caffell, doesn't there?

Her parents and friends all seem to have been so (over?) protective of this beautiful and fragile young woman that they seem to have been unwilling to recognise the full extent of her illness. To me, they seemed to want to keep the extent of Sheila's illness below the radar of the authorities: Social Services.

If it's true that June and Nevill had found a private fostering arrangement for Sheila's boys, wasn't this to keep the Social Services out of it: to keep Sheila's problems in the family?

Did this denial and desire to keep it all in the family lead Nevill to make a an error of judgement which proved to have catastrophic consequences?

One of Sheila's friends said he feared for his and Sheila's safety during one of her episodes when Sheila completely lost it. What did he do? Did he call her doctor, social services  or the police? No, he rang her chief protector: Nevill. Had Nevill encouraged Sheila's friend/s to cover up for Sheila and to contact Nevill when Sheila had episodes?

Perhaps Nevill and June - and others close to Sheila - were so in denial and so intent on covering up the extent of her illness that they may all have ignored behavioural warnings that she was getting worse and that she represented a serious danger to herself and to others - even, initially, on that final fateful night.

According to Freddie's statement, on the night in March when Sheila had a breakdown, he called Colin Caffells mother and she came round. Sheila kicked the lady out so Freddie called Sheila's doctor. The doctor arrived but Sheila wouldn't co-operate so the doctor left. Freddie then called another doctor, and that doctor came round and also left because he couldn't do anything - the doctor just wrote out a prescription. It was later on that night when Freddie called Nevill.

Some issues that I must bring to your attention.

The time taken to drive from Jeremy's cottage to the farm is only about 5 minutes, plenty of time to make a phone call from the farm and then another one from the cottage.

Jeremy was renowned for usually driving like a maniac and had been chastised on many occasions by Ralph for doing so. Why then on the day of the murder did he toddle along like noddy and was in no rush whatsoever even though he knew Ralph was in trouble?

A wetsuit was found on the farm shortly after the murder, it is contended that Jeremy used this in the execution of the crime.

I had no idea a wetsuit was found on the farm. 

If Jeremy had driven to the farm and back, some of his neighbours might have heard the car, so I don't think he would have risked that.

No, it'd be silly. A car has a number plate. A bike or a run home would be better - jump in hedge if anyone is coming. No idea how a wetsuit fits in, but it'd be hard to get it on and off. And probably wouldnt burn that well if you are disposing of it by fire.

The bike theory is uncompelling. The family made a determined search for tracks in the soft mud around the area yet could not find any. Forensics found too little mud on the bike and mud samples of that which was found on the bike did not match the muddy terrain of the fields around Goldhanger/ D'Arcy or the farm. The distribution of mud on the bike was also inconsistent with it having been ridden through, with wheels sinking in, the soft mud in the fields at that time.

[andrea]

if jb did commit the murders in the wetsuit, surley he would have disposed of it? it would have had blood on it and linked him to the scene. that why i dont think he was weariing a wetsuit, its ridiculous.

[andrea]

what evidence, forensic evidence did the police have linking him to the murder scene? i know they found a fingerprint on the gun, but besides that what did they have?

[Paul]

Had it rained in the week before the incident? In August, the terrain around farm tracks and fields would be hard/ sandy mud, not soft, unless there had been substantial rain. Since workers were working late that evening on the harvest, recent rain would be unlikely.

[chochokeira]

The car sounds better. If he had already used the car and at speed the engine would be hot.  Thus the need to be on the road with the car after he had reported the call from Ralph to the police and the greater need not to beat the police to the scene.

Lets be honest guys.  If your father phoned you asking for help because your deranged sister had a gun would you doddle along at 20 mph???

And your evidence for that is...?

[andrea]

i read somewhere on this forum that it had rained quite alot considering it was august.

what about forensic evidence paul? what evidence is there apart from a fingerprint linking jb to the murders.