Author Topic: The found hacksaw:  (Read 12101 times)

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Offline Adam

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Re: The found hacksaw:
« Reply #135 on: December 21, 2014, 09:42:PM »
Common knowledge for those who can be bothered to read AE's statements.

No need to be rude.

I will read the statement.

The last time you gave me two sources ( Wilkes's book/Julie's WS)  I checked them both. You lied.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Caroline

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Re: The found hacksaw:
« Reply #136 on: December 21, 2014, 09:43:PM »
No need to be rude.

I will read the statement.

The last time you gave me two sources ( Wilkes's book/Julie's WS)  I checked them both. You lied.

I don't need to lie - you need to concentrate more and read the WHOLE thing!!!!
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Offline Jan

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Re: The found hacksaw:
« Reply #137 on: December 21, 2014, 10:16:PM »
I don't need to lie - you need to concentrate more and read the WHOLE thing!!!!

 :o :o Caroline I understand we are on different sides of the fence - but how can he accuse you of telling lies . I would think you have more in depth knowledge of the documents than most of us .You probably know the case inside out.

What a cheek. >:(

Offline Caroline

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Re: The found hacksaw:
« Reply #138 on: December 21, 2014, 10:34:PM »
:o :o Caroline I understand we are on different sides of the fence - but how can he accuse you of telling lies . I would think you have more in depth knowledge of the documents than most of us .You probably know the case inside out.

What a cheek. >:(

Thank you Jan :). Lots of these things are common knowledge but not to Adam :). The fact that he can't find the answers doesn't make me a liar, it just shows he doesn't research things properly :).
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Offline Adam

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Re: The found hacksaw:
« Reply #139 on: December 21, 2014, 10:42:PM »
Thank you Jan :). Lots of these things are common knowledge but not to Adam :). The fact that he can't find the answers doesn't make me a liar, it just shows he doesn't research things properly :).

Well I asked you politely for a source. People exchange information on forums.

Anyway fair play, you have changed from innocent to guilty after reading up more on the case. Nice letters from Jeremy does not make him innocent.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Caroline

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Re: The found hacksaw:
« Reply #140 on: December 21, 2014, 11:01:PM »
Well I asked you politely for a source. People exchange information on forums.

Anyway fair play, you have changed from innocent to guilty after reading up more on the case. Nice letters from Jeremy does not make him innocent.

Who said it did?

And what do you mean by 'exchange'? Things seem pretty one sided from where I'm sitting  ;D ;D ;D
« Last Edit: December 22, 2014, 01:55:AM by Caroline »
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Offline Reader

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Re: The found hacksaw:
« Reply #141 on: December 22, 2014, 05:06:AM »
Well he said he used the found hacksaw on the bathroom window. Of that there is no dispute.
That's incorrect. Jeremy didn't say he used the hacksaw. Had he done so, you would have quoted his evidence to that effect. You haven't even quoted any police evidence claiming that he had said it.

Offline Adam

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Re: The found hacksaw:
« Reply #142 on: December 22, 2014, 05:26:AM »
Point 16:

Judges summing up. His main points

Did the jury believe Julie or Jeremy ?

Did Jeremy mention Matthew Mcdonald as a cover up ?

Both Jeremy & Julie had committed recent crimes. That does not mean either lied in court in this trial. Julie had paid back the money she stole.

Jeremy trusted Julie to help him commit a crime at the caravan site. Did he trust her enough to confide in the murders ?

The jury should ignore the media.

Every witness in the trial is equal.

Did the mysterious phone call from Neville happen ?

Could Mugford have lied under oath for nearly two days ?

Did Mugford's testimony have a ring of truth ?

The prosecution claim to have an overwhelming case even without the silencer evidence. The judge told the jury to disregard this comment & review all evidence.

Red paint on silencer shows it was on during kitchen fight. Jeremy said the gun was left that night without a silencer on. Why would Sheila put a silencer on the gun & did she know how to do this ? 

Why would Sheila take the silencer off the gun & put it away, rather than throw it on the floor ?

There was overwhelming evidence it was Sheila's blood on the silencer.

Police mistakes not relevant. Part of the reason for the mistakes early on was because they had been lead in that direction.

Jeremy had a financial motive to commit the crime.

Jeremy said he had used the found hacksaw to gain access to WHF after the murders to get documentation.  Was this correct or had he gained entry on the murder night ?

The bicycle had dried mud on the wheels according to Robert Boutflour. Jeremy said his relationship with Julie was coming to a close in August. Why was the bike brought to the cottage just before the murders ?

Both the defence & prosecution agree the silencer was fitted for most of the time the crime was taking place.

Mugford was questioned at lenght & in detail. She stuck to her story under cross examination. The defence complained about her crying. But that could be a sign of weakness the defence could have exploited. Were the defence really complaining because she did not change her story ?

If Mugford was called at 3:12 by Jeremy & the police st 3:26 it badly undermines Jeremys version of events. 

If Neville called at 3.26, he had no face wounds. The police arrived at WHF at 3.48 & never heard any shots. Sheila must have fought Neville, perhaps shot other people, washed, unscrewed & put the silencer away & then shot herself. In 22 minutes.

Colin Caffell testified that Jeremy said Neville sounded wounded on the phone. However in court Jeremy said he thought it might have just sounded terrified. The judge said Jeremy should remember.

Dr Ferguson had testified that Sheila had never shown physical violence to other people. Others testified she was attached to her father & loving towards her sons.

Dr Bradley testified that people with no history of violence can become violent.

The judge mentioned the supper when fostering was mentioned. Jeremy said Sheila was non responsive. Therefore this cannot be used as a reason why Sheila could have committed the crimes.

The judge said it was 'very very' unlikely Sheila could overcome Neville in a fight & not have any marks. Jeremy was not examined for a long time & would have had time to clean up on the night.

The judge asked could Sheila load a gun ?

The judge said there is no doubt the silencer was on the rifle in the kitchen fight. It is not credible that Sheila would then put it back in the gun cupboard.

The judge said the blood found in the silencer was specific to Sheila. There was a remote possibility of it being a mixture of Neville & Junes.

The crime was committed by Sheila or Jeremy. There was no possible third party.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2014, 05:28:AM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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Re: The found hacksaw:
« Reply #143 on: December 22, 2014, 06:20:AM »
Interestingly the judge also says Jeremy says the 21 month relationship with Julie was 'coming to a close'. In police interviews he said the relationship had been in decline for six months.

Seems more and more likely he whisked her over on that gruesome morning & took her here there & everywhere to keep her out of mischief.  Once he thought he was clear he could start asking other women out.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Mr. Gee

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Re: The found hacksaw:
« Reply #144 on: December 22, 2014, 10:49:AM »
Interestingly the judge also says Jeremy says the 21 month relationship with Julie was 'coming to a close'. In police interviews he said the relationship had been in decline for six months.

Seems more and more likely he whisked her over on that gruesome morning & took her here there & everywhere to keep her out of mischief.  Once he thought he was clear he could start asking other women out.
It is statements like this from the judge that indicates to me as least that he certainly gave the wrong signals to the jurors. He was by not unbiased in his summing up and the fact that you have posted this as someone who believes Bamber to be guilty shows this to be true. In fact there are not many supporters who quote the judge. Why is that? Because the judge was clearly biased.

I have found this in judges in my own experience whilst serving on a jury many years ago. The judge at that time didn't like a case that in his estimation should not have been in a crown court so he directed the jury to give a not guilty verdict. In my opinion the man was clearly guilty. After the court was cleared he gave the defense counsel a good dressing down for bringing that case to his court.

Offline lookout

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Re: The found hacksaw:
« Reply #145 on: December 22, 2014, 10:54:AM »
Those who've spouted such bilge are in for a rude awakening. We even have " antis' disagreeing with each other,whatever next ?
I refer to the lawmakers as well as the posters !

Offline ngb1066

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Re: The found hacksaw:
« Reply #146 on: December 22, 2014, 10:55:AM »
No need to be rude.

I will read the statement.

The last time you gave me two sources ( Wilkes's book/Julie's WS)  I checked them both. You lied.

Adam - please do not accuse another member of being a liar without very strong grounds.  Such grounds do not exist here. 

 

Offline Caroline

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Re: The found hacksaw:
« Reply #147 on: December 22, 2014, 12:41:PM »
Adam - please do not accuse another member of being a liar without very strong grounds.  Such grounds do not exist here. 

 

Thanks NGB, Adam likes others to do his research for him..
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Offline Adam

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Re: The found hacksaw:
« Reply #148 on: December 22, 2014, 07:23:PM »
Adam - please do not accuse another member of being a liar without very strong grounds.  Such grounds do not exist here. 

 

My apologies NGB.

Caroline must have just been mistaken when she abruptly went off topic and accused me of being wrong on a post of mine several pages back, on another thread.  About Jeremy wearing make up at the funeral. Or not.

Confidently giving me two sources and no doubt feeling pleased with herself. But you know what, I checked the sources.

Sadly both sources didn't show what she claimed.

But we all make mistakes. But better to not make them when saying other people are wrong, eh ?
« Last Edit: December 22, 2014, 07:25:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Mr. Gee

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Re: The found hacksaw:
« Reply #149 on: December 22, 2014, 07:30:PM »
Adam I am intrigued by your apologies that turn out not to be apologies after all, but rather excuses. ::)