Where did Jeremy leave the rifle ?

[Adam]

Could that not be a key lock ?

[scipio_usmc]

Could that not be a key lock ?

It could and more likely is a key lock than a knob because knobs are usually on both sides. Moreover the handle pull would not be needed if there were a knob.  So more likely it is a lever lock.

That still doesn't mean it was always locked or that the key would not have been stored somewhere in the office and easily accessible. 

Still the main reason for the claims of leaving the gun out were for the reasons I mentioned not worrying about Sheila being unable to unlock it. 

[scipio_usmc]

Oh for gods sake - I KNOW there was no lock but we can go on all night and for the next few weeks arguing the toss but in the end there will still be NO LOCK.

You know how?  I heard it did have a lock and the image you posted seems to demonstrate such.  There is a lever and catch adjacent to it clearly visible.  It is unusual to have a knob on one end not another and clearly the back has no knob where the latch is.  Moreover, if there were a knob the drawer/handle pull attached to the upper outside would not be needed.  It looks like a lever lock. 

[Caroline]

It could and more likely is a key lock than a knob because knobs are usually on both sides. Moreover the handle pull would not be needed if there were a knob.  So more likely it is a lever lock.

That still doesn't mean it was always locked or that the key would not have been stored somewhere in the office and easily accessible. 

Still the main reason for the claims of leaving the gun out were for the reasons I mentioned not worrying about Sheila being unable to unlock it.

It's NOT a key lock, key locks go all the way through! It is simply a 'catch' not a lock. It's the kind that has a ball bearing which fits into a plate on the surround on the door frame which keeps the door closed. 

[Caroline]

You know how?  I heard it did have a lock and the image you posted seems to demonstrate such.  There is a lever and catch adjacent to it clearly visible.  It is unusual to have a knob on one end not another and clearly the back has no knob where the latch is.  Moreover, if there were a knob the drawer/handle pull attached to the upper outside would not be needed.  It looks like a lever lock.

Ha, ha!! There is NO LEVER - it's a pull handle 

[Adam]

Jeremy may have attempted to commit the massacre using just 11 bullets.

Once he realised he had to re load the first time, he decided to make Sheila look even more 'crazy'. Shooting the asleep twins. Eight times.

[Caroline]

You know how? I heard it did have a lock and the image you posted seems to demonstrate such.  There is a lever and catch adjacent to it clearly visible.  It is unusual to have a knob on one end not another and clearly the back has no knob where the latch is.  Moreover, if there were a knob the drawer/handle pull attached to the upper outside would not be needed.  It looks like a lever lock.

Perhaps you shouldn't listen to ALL you hear because as we have recently found out - your source isn't always reliable!

[scipio_usmc]

It's NOT a key lock, key locks go all the way through! It is simply a 'catch' not a lock. It's the kind that has a ball bearing which fits into a plate on the surround on the door frame which keeps the door closed.

It would have no way to open then. It needs to have a handle to open it which is what is usually on both sides. 

You are describing the kind of lock that is attached outside a door not incorporated into a door, a sliding latch like this:

http://www.harborfreight.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/i/m/image_7977.jpg?01AD=3tIodD1FKoWngm3ISYQ8wVwojDKyt8BwaetgI4hOvwg13dxr_EzLXNQ&01RI=64AE74E4254CDC2&01NA=na

Cabinet lever locks usually do not go all the way through to the other side of the door to have a lock on each side they are like the latch in the photo.

[Caroline]

It would have no way to open then. It needs to have a handle to open it which is what is usually on both sides. 

You are describing the kind of lock that is attached outside a door not incorporated into a door, a sliding latch like this:

http://www.harborfreight.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/i/m/image_7977.jpg?01AD=3tIodD1FKoWngm3ISYQ8wVwojDKyt8BwaetgI4hOvwg13dxr_EzLXNQ&01RI=64AE74E4254CDC2&01NA=na

Cabinet lever locks usually do not go all the way through to the other side of the door to have a lock on each side they are like the latch in the photo.

What are you talking about - this is the kind of mechanism I'm talking about, all you need is a pull handle which is what is on the front of the door - there is NO LATCH! The part with the bearing fits on the door (slightly recessed) and the other part fits on the door frame so when the door is pushed closed, the bearing fits on the dimple.

You can argue that black is white if you like, but you'll be wrong again. There was no lock and there is no latch!

[grahameb]

1) He said he loaded the magazine in front of her.  He specifically stated the rifle was not in th ekitchen with him and that he took the magazine to the weapon and inserted it elsewhere.  His assertion was that her watching him meant she could load a gun but he was wrong.  Just seeing her load the mgazine would neither explain where to insert the magazine nor more importantly how to chamber a round or let her be aware a round needed to be chambered. 

2)The telephone call and all the lies about getting the gun out and leaving it out were all part of his scheme to frame Sheila.

If he didn't make up the phone call then he would not have had an excuse to call police and would have had to go to sleep and then when the bodies were found the next day he would have to pretend he knows nothing, say he was asleep in bed and hope they believe it.  He thought the phone clal was better because he could use that lie to pretend he had proof he was home.  That is why he made such a big deal about making sure police saw him arrive at the scene after them.

The call also was used to claim that Nevill said she had a gun on them and had gone crazy to furthe rhis frame job.   

Had the bodies been foudn the next day apart from the gun sitting on her, which the killer could simply drop it on her, there woudl be nothing to establish she did it.  No forensic evidence that she beat or shot anyone or even loaded a gun.

The claim that Nevill said she had a gun on them was integral to his frame job of her.

His story of the gun, loaded magazine and extra bullets being left out was to firther the narrative of her holding them at gunpoint.

How would the following look:

They are all found dead, gun is found on Sheila.  Gun normally is stored with scope and suppressor.  Why would Sheila go to the closet and get a gun at all let alone remove both?  Going to a closet, going to a separate area to get bullets, removing the accessories to make it easier to aim the gun at very close range and using the gun to kill everyone suggests planning not spontaneous crazy actions.   

His tale was to make it seem the gun was a target of opportunity and that Sheila used it to kill everyone despite the complete lack of forensic evidence she did so.

The fake phone call and tale about leaving the gun out was integral to his framing job.

But for these things they even more readily would have figured out that Sheila didin't do it and the killer simply tossed the gun on her.  Jeremy would have been suspected and Julie might still have blabbed.  The strongest evidence that Jeremy was the killer though as opposed to someone else framing Sheila was Jeremy's own active frame job.  He did such because just leaving the gun on her wasn't enough.

If he just said nothing at all the crime scene alone would have put Sheila in the frame. In actual fact and it is a fact Jeremy said it was those men with the guns. They killed them. No framing of Sheila there. The trouble is if he was innocent he probably would have done exactly the same thing. The only difference is that he was found guilty. If he was found not guilty we would probably not be having this argument now?

[grahameb]

You know how?  I heard it did have a lock and the image you posted seems to demonstrate such.  There is a lever and catch adjacent to it clearly visible.  It is unusual to have a knob on one end not another and clearly the back has no knob where the latch is.  Moreover, if there were a knob the drawer/handle pull attached to the upper outside would not be needed.  It looks like a lever lock.

You did? Could you point the rest of us to this information?

[grahameb]

It's NOT a key lock, key locks go all the way through! It is simply a 'catch' not a lock. It's the kind that has a ball bearing which fits into a plate on the surround on the door frame which keeps the door closed.

You are one smart lass Caroline.

[Alias]

Kind of a strange set-up - a table and a chair right in front of the cupboard so that the door can´t even open properly. You have to kneel down to get to the things in the cupboard - not much room for that.
Was it used that much at all?

[Caroline]

You are one smart lass Caroline.

Thanks Grahame, you know the kind of mechanism I mean right?

[Adam]

If he just said nothing at all the crime scene alone would have put Sheila in the frame. In actual fact and it is a fact Jeremy said it was those men with the guns. They killed them. No framing of Sheila there. The trouble is if he was innocent he probably would have done exactly the same thing. The only difference is that he was found guilty. If he was found not guilty we would probably not be having this argument now?