Author Topic: Where did Jeremy leave the rifle ?  (Read 9851 times)

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Offline grahameb

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Re: Where did Jeremy leave the rifle ?
« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2014, 07:22:PM »
I asked you for a source recently. Still waiting.

Then asked Jansus. Who put up a picture. Which is neither here or there.

If there was no lock why did Jeremy make a big fuss about leaving the rifle out for Sheila ? If she could have just taken one out of the open gun cupboard.
Sorry Adam the challenge was to you to find the source that there was a lock. But I don't believe it was ever mentioned. I think the picture of the shotgun resting up against a wall is evidence of how lax the family were in handling guns. Also when the relatives allegedly found the silencer they didn't mention any lock being on the cupboard. It was just a cupboard under the stairs as far as I can see. Hardly a very secure place.

Offline Adam

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Re: Where did Jeremy leave the rifle ?
« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2014, 07:26:PM »
I did not ask for a source before and missed you're post the first time. 

Now I have asked for a source. So will not miss it.

I have no source saying it was lockable. But always assumed it was lockable. It was a gun cupboard. Not hard to put a lock on.

'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline susan

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Re: Where did Jeremy leave the rifle ?
« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2014, 07:27:PM »
Adam why may I ask did Jeremy have to mention the rifle at all surely in some people's eyes that would be incriminating him and that was the last thing he would want if he did infact murder his family. I am like Grahame I am not a Jeremy Bamber "supporter" just feel he did not have a fair trial and I appreciate if he had a fair trial he could still be found guilty.

Offline Adam

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Re: Where did Jeremy leave the rifle ?
« Reply #18 on: June 23, 2014, 07:32:PM »
AE said Neville would not have guns lying around. Assume she meant they would all be put away/locked.

Neville was worried about dying in a shooting accident. Not sure why he invited a 'depressive Psychotic' (according to Jeremy) to stay with two children. Then spoke about fostering.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline grahameb

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Re: Where did Jeremy leave the rifle ?
« Reply #19 on: June 23, 2014, 07:33:PM »
I did not ask for a source before and missed you're post the first time. 

Now I have asked for a source. So will not miss it.

I have no source saying it was lockable. But always assumed it was lockable. It was a gun cupboard. Not hard to put a lock on.
Then we are at an impasse Adam. Neither of us appear to be able to prove it either way?

Offline grahameb

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Re: Where did Jeremy leave the rifle ?
« Reply #20 on: June 23, 2014, 07:34:PM »
There were other guns lying around the house ? Source please.

Why would Sheila know where the gun cupboard key was ? She did not live there and rarely visited.

Neville said to BW he was worried that he would die in a shooting accident and that he must 'never turn his back on that young man'. So I suspect he kept the gun cupboard key close to him.
Just look at the picture. There was a shotgun photographed up against the wall.

Offline grahameb

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Re: Where did Jeremy leave the rifle ?
« Reply #21 on: June 23, 2014, 07:37:PM »
AE said Neville would not have guns lying around. Assume she meant they would all be put away/locked.

Neville was worried about dying in a shooting accident. Not sure why he invited a 'depressive Psychotic' (according to Jeremy) to stay with two children. Then spoke about fostering.
Then I suggest that Ann Eaton was obviously mistaken and the shotgun against the wall establishes that fact it appears?

Offline maggie

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Re: Where did Jeremy leave the rifle ?
« Reply #22 on: June 23, 2014, 07:43:PM »
AE said Neville would not have guns lying around. Assume she meant they would all be put away/locked.

Neville was worried about dying in a shooting accident. Not sure why he invited a 'depressive Psychotic' (according to Jeremy) to stay with two children. Then spoke about fostering.
Whatever Adam, I do assure you the gun cupboard did not have a lock. It had a catch to
keep it closed but no lock. It was barely a cupboard.  How did AE know how Neil treated his guns she was hardly ever in the farmhouse.

Offline grahameb

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Re: Where did Jeremy leave the rifle ?
« Reply #23 on: June 23, 2014, 07:46:PM »
Whatever Adam, I do assure you the gun cupboard did not have a lock. It had a catch to
keep it closed but no lock. It was barely a cupboard.  How did AE know how Neil treated his guns she was hardly ever in the farmhouse.
I rather believe it was just one of those things one or other of the family did in order to constantly put pressure upon people to gain support against Jeremy.

Offline maggie

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Re: Where did Jeremy leave the rifle ?
« Reply #24 on: June 23, 2014, 07:49:PM »
I rather believe it was just one of those things one or other of the family did in order to constantly put pressure upon people to gain support against Jeremy.
I agree Grahame, also you are correct there wasn't a lock on the gun cupboard!!!!! ;D

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: Where did Jeremy leave the rifle ?
« Reply #25 on: June 23, 2014, 07:55:PM »
Then we are at an impasse Adam. Neither of us appear to be able to prove it either way?

No but there is an obvious answer to Adam's question of why Jeremy made a big deal of leaving the rifle out. 

1) In the middle of a rage it is hard to believe that Sheila would go seek out a gun she had a history or throwing things or grabbing pots and pans (which happens to be the weapon of choice for women and while some mock this a frying pan can be a potent weapon)

2) the rifle would normally have been found with the scope and suppressor attached, indeed Nevill had the scope installed professionally and didn't take it off because there was no reason to do so.  With the exception of shooting at extremely close range the scope would be beneficial and they did not use the rifle for extremely close range shooting. Likewise the suppressor would be beneficial.   

3) the magazine would have been empty and needed to have been loaded.

4) she needed to reload the magazine several times.

It is hard to believe Sheila would go seek out a gun period in the middle of a rage let alone have the ability to successfully load it without someone stopping her before she could load it because she would need to first load the magazine and have to set the gun down so it could be taken away.  But if she had sought it ou to load she would not have bothered taking off the scope and suppressor.

Jeremy made up the story to pretend that the gun was a weapon of opportunity that was staring her in the face, made up that the magazine was already loaded so that she didn't need to load the magazine and thus could have rapidly loaded the gun by simply inserting the magazine and chambering a round instead of having to load a magazine and thus provide the opportunity to be disarmed.  Finally, it was so that he could claim the gun already lacked the suppressor and scope and thus that is how she would have found it.

To deal with the need to reload he claimed he left near the gun a box of ammo that had been full or nearly full and that he loaded the magazine from it.  So it had 48-50 rounds and counting the 10 in the magazine another 38-40 remained for her to reload from.  This provided an excuse to make it easy for her to reload.  But the staging fell short as the box he staged had 30 rounds.  If it actually had 48-50 then it should have had 23-25 remaining after the murders.  It had 30 though- too many.  So either the box was just staged there an dnot used at all or some bullets were used from this pile and others from a different source which makes no sense at all so this actually hurt a lot instead of helping.   

Worrying about a locked closet that she would not be able to find a key to had nothing at all to do with why he claimed what he did about leaving the weapon out with bullets and a loaded magazine nearby.

Adam missed the boat on this one.
   
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline Adam

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Re: Where did Jeremy leave the rifle ?
« Reply #26 on: June 23, 2014, 07:57:PM »
Maggie says so. So that's it.

So Jeremy should not feel guilty about hearing rabbits,  loading the rifle. Going to shoot rabbits. Not firing any shots. Then leaving the fully loaded rifle by the sofa. Because Sheila had lots of guns to choose from. And she knew how to load them as well.

Mind you Jeremy has never shown any regret for the above. 'I didn't know what would happen, did I' ? He said in court.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline grahameb

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Re: Where did Jeremy leave the rifle ?
« Reply #27 on: June 23, 2014, 08:02:PM »
No but there is an obvious answer to Adam's question of why Jeremy made a big deal of leaving the rifle out. 

1) In the middle of a rage it is hard to believe that Sheila would go seek out a gun she had a history or throwing things or grabbing pots and pans (which happens to be the weapon of choice for women and while some mock this a frying pan can be a potent weapon)

2) the rifle would normally have been found with the scope and suppressor attached, indeed Nevill had the scope installed professionally and didn't take it off because there was no reason to do so.  With the exception of shooting at extremely close range the scope would be beneficial and they did not use the rifle for extremely close range shooting. Likewise the suppressor would be beneficial.   

3) the magazine would have been empty and needed to have been loaded.

4) she needed to reload the magazine several times.

It is hard to believe Sheila would go seek out a gun period in the middle of a rage let alone have the ability to successfully load it without someone stopping her before she could load it because she would need to first load the magazine and have to set the gun down so it could be taken away.  But if she had sought it ou to load she would not have bothered taking off the scope and suppressor.

Jeremy made up the story to pretend that the gun was a weapon of opportunity that was staring her in the face, made up that the magazine was already loaded so that she didn't need to load the magazine and thus could have rapidly loaded the gun by simply inserting the magazine and chambering a round instead of having to load a magazine and thus provide the opportunity to be disarmed.  Finally, it was so that he could claim the gun already lacked the suppressor and scope and thus that is how she would have found it.

To deal with the need to reload he claimed he left near the gun a box of ammo that had been full or nearly full and that he loaded the magazine from it.  So it had 48-50 rounds and counting the 10 in the magazine another 38-40 remained for her to reload from.  This provided an excuse to make it easy for her to reload.  But the staging fell short as the box he staged had 30 rounds.  If it actually had 48-50 then it should have had 23-25 remaining after the murders.  It had 30 though- too many.  So either the box was just staged there an dnot used at all or some bullets were used from this pile and others from a different source which makes no sense at all so this actually hurt a lot instead of helping.   

Worrying about a locked closet that she would not be able to find a key to had nothing at all to do with why he claimed what he did about leaving the weapon out with bullets and a loaded magazine nearby.

Adam missed the boat on this one.
 
Personally I would have thought he should have put it away personally, especially as there were kids around. But I suppose he was just following the slipshod way of the family on that one?
But if you work it out he needen't have mentioned the gun at all. No one would have been any the wiser. Having said that he needn't have mentioned the phone call either? He was either an innocent man, or an exceptionally stupid guilty one?

Offline Adam

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Re: Where did Jeremy leave the rifle ?
« Reply #28 on: June 23, 2014, 08:05:PM »
The plan of saying he left a fully loaded rifle out is not too bad. For the reasons mentioned above.

The problem was it took two reloads and a brutal beating to finish the massacre. Rather than just 11 bullets.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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Re: Where did Jeremy leave the rifle ?
« Reply #29 on: June 23, 2014, 08:09:PM »
Personally I would have thought he should have put it away personally, especially as there were kids around. But I suppose he was just following the slipshod way of the family on that one?
But if you work it out he needen't have mentioned the gun at all. No one would have been any the wiser. Having said that he needn't have mentioned the phone call either? He was either an innocent man, or an exceptionally stupid guilty one?

Jeremy's double alibi attempt was his best option. See previous threads.

Saying he left a fully loaded rifle for Sheila was not a bad idea either. But... see above.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.